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The Queen of Steam | Norfolk and Western Class J 611 | History in the Dark
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2024
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When she was built in the Roanoke Shops in 1950, it's unlikely that anyone believed 611's life would become so eventful. She was removed from official service twice, removed from excursion service once, and within the last decade made a grand return to operation. She's one of the most famous and recognizable steam locomotives in the world. She is Norfolk and Western 611: the Spirit of Roanoke and the Queen of Steam.
0:00 - Intro
0:30 - Construction and Service
10:47 - Retirement and Revival
15:57 - First Excursion Career
25:50 - Retired Again
32:05 - Grand Return and Current Status
"Norfolk and Western 611, also known as the "Spirit of Roanoke" and the "Queen of Steam", is a Norfolk and Western (N&W) class J 4-8-4 "Northern" streamlined steam locomotive built in May 1950 at N&W's Roanoke (East End) Shops in Roanoke, Virginia. It was one of the last mainline passenger steam locomotives built in the United States and represents the pinnacle of steam locomotive technology."
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You forgot to mention how 611 was the Absolute STAR of the Streamliners At Spencer event.
A massive gathering of vintage streamlined diesel locomotives. Mostly EMD E and F units, with a few Alco units for variety.
No wonder shes a star shes unique!
Roanoke built and Roanoke proud
Another N&W engine that would be nice to talk about, is N&W #578. A little Alco Pacific that is over 100 years old.
That little engine served a hell of a life. Running a over 100 mile line, Alone for over 15 years.
A Line that ran right through my home town.
yea 578 is one of the other N&W engines I visited while I was in Ohio the museum still has her headlight its just taken down due to vandals and whatnot but for generic photos and family photos they do put the headlight on the engine
I wish the Central of Georgia preserved that one “Big Apple” 4-8-4 locomotive they were about to.
That would have been my hometown locomotive, though it would have probably been on static display on the other side of the state.
When the Age of Steam Roundhouse purchased the NKP 763 from the VMT, they wanted to give them the 578 plus cash. The VMT only wanted cash. I urge you to try to download articles written in The Roanoke Times about the VMT by Kevin Kitteredge. Extremely well researched and written articles!
@@williamclarke4510 Back before that media mogul bought the Times and ran it into the ground. They used to be so great.
@@FuckGoogle502Sadly, that's the story of local newspapers today. The Roanoke Times was an excellent paper.
My father was hired as a Class A Transmission Lineman for Appalachian Power Company in Bluefield, West Virginia in 1946 after he returned from his Combat Duty in the South Pacific Campaign of WWII. Dad & mom had ridden behind 611 while still in passenger duty and the as employee for Appalachian Power Company. He worked for APCO for 38yrs. Dad always spoke highly of Claytor. He was an employees employer.
My father talked highly of Claytor and N&W as well. (Dad was foreman of the East End shops at some point, where he apparently gave dumb orders to his crew that wound up throwing molten slag into the air and burning the original roof off the East End shops (whoops lol), then went on to head the regional wreck train. He loved getting to bust out the Cat D8s lol. He said they had the power to move the whole train, if only they were heavy enough.) Oh yeah, his boss throughout my childhood and under Norfolk Southern was named Mr. Pickle, which I've never stopped thinking is funny.
I was lucky enough to see 611 in 2019. It was still at Spencer shops at the time, and was undergoing maintenance near one of the museum walkways.
What is nice about 611 running on the Buckingham Branch is that it is still a mainline, Amtrak's Cardinal traverses the route three days a week. CSX also runs empty grain and coal trains along the line. This is one of the few mainlines in the US that doesn't require PTC at all. In fact the line doesn't even have PTC installed on it.
Norfolk and Western 611 is a spectacular and handsome example of a steam locomotive, being a streamlined 4-8-4 type the 611 is the only surviving member of it's class ( the j class). The 611 has had a revenue service life along with two excursion service careers and this engine still operates today in the modern era ; I am glad to see that engine 611 was preserved and restored back to operation and this locomotive is truly worthy of the title "The Queen of Steam".
I saw her in May during the last excursions in Strasburg. What a great weekend
I just hope you finally get the story right this time about how it came to be preserved. It had nothing to do with the tug river derailment and everything to do with luck. And the desperate plea of a few railfans including one, O. Winston Link.
Also the late Arthur Owens, long time Roanoke city manager. He is the one who conceived the idea of Roanoke Transportation. Museum
love N&W 611 got many dvd's of her in excursion service and in the 1950s and I even drove the engine at strasburg even got an O scale model of her great times
FINALLY! I've been waiting for this one.
A few notes and recommendations here if you don't mind.
1. When NS cancelled 21st Century Steam the main reason behind it was the utter bastard known as E. Hunter Harrison was trying to forcibly merge NS with Canadian Pacific via stock buyout after he was laughed out of the CSX office for trying to merge THEM with CP. Harrison deserves a Halloween video all to himself, he was literally the railroad's version of the devil and I have no sympathy of his death.
2. I think the Amtrak president at the time of 611's ban was a former airline CEO, conflict of interest much?
3: since you did 611 you are now legally obligated to do one on the original excursion star, Southern 4501. If you need info, Delay In Block made the "and then there was one" documentary on her.
And 4: you know you'll have to do a video on William Graham Jr. Dude has a very storied career including his time in the navy saving the crews of the USS Indianapolis and making Amtrak respectable while being criminally underfunded.
“Former airline CEO”
Typical Amtrak president lol
As one person put it "Graham Claytor couldn't do anything that he wanted to at Amtrak because he had to spend all of his time battling Reagan's budget cuts.
@@DiamondKingStudios As far as I know, Richard Anderson and Bill Flynn were ex-airline CEOs, and are partly why Amtrak got screwed over during the Pandemic, especially by Flynn. Stephen Gardner, Amtrak's current CEO who could make most of the shots, had been in railroad leadership prior to Amtrak, so at least he understands trains unlike Anderson and Flynn.
@@harrisonofcolorado8886 I wonder how Joseph H. Boardman was. Wasn’t he commissioner of NYSDOT (1997-2005) and FRA administrator (2005-2008) before leading Amtrak?
But then again he was a Bush appointee for the FRA so who knows
@@DiamondKingStudios Yes Boardman was with NYSDOT until 2005 when he was appointed to the FRA and then to Amtrak in 2008. In the end, he served Amtrak for 8 years, and has been one of if not THE best Amtrak had.
Ill literally was on the 611 the day you posted this 😂
I just rode her last Sunday and she is amazing and the power she has the speed there will never be another one like her long live the 611 🚂
Pissed I missed getting tickets for the excursion. I found out about it a couple days after they sold out. I still might stop by the area when they're running to get some pictures though
I’ve actually gotten to see 611 myself while she was visiting Strasburg in 2021, but bad luck resulted in her being rendered inoperable due to a broken trailing truck spring
My favorite steam loco is still SP 4449 (I do live in former Southern Pacific territory, after all), but 611 is such a beautiful machine.
That's an interesting comparison... Class J's vs. Daylights as far as aero goes. Personally, I'm thinking Class J's vs. NYC Niagaras for power and tractive effort.
New Death Battle match. XD W. Graham Claytor Jr. vs Alfred E. Pearlman!
Also for some background, Claytor Jr. was also for cool factor, a former Secretary of the US Navy! Nominated by then served under POTUS Carter.
He was a WWII Vet assigned to the Pacific Theater, later he helped rescue crew of the infamous USS Indianapolis! He went without orders to investigate reports of men in the ocean which led to his involvement. His actions were widely credited by survivors for preventing the tragedy from being worse!
Also was a Deputy Sec Def! Notably his military assistant? Colin Powell himself. He was also quite the activist too; all around a solid man.
611 was in GREAT hands, if not for his family love of steam but on Claytor Jr's morals as well.
Mr. Claytor also ran Amtrak under Reagan. As one person commented "Well you know Graham Claytor didn't get to do anything he wanted to do at Amtrak because he had to spend all of his time battling Reagan's budget cuts." According to the late George Kelch, an N&W 50 year man, the current Roanoke Chapter NRHS was started when Mr. Claytor approached him with a proposal- Restart an NRHS chapter in Roanoke and he would give the chapter some coaches. There was no Roanoke chapter 1960-1966.
Can you do a couple of top five lists. On favorite locomotive moniker.
Like Queen of steam, king of the rails, and so on
Even King of the Steam
So Darkness hope you're doing well. I just thought of a potentially good idea for a top 5 video.
"Top 5 successful railway innovations"
Basically innovations that Incredibly improved the railways (excluding locomotives/dieselation) gor example Centralized Traffic control, Positive Train control. Flashing rear end device (Fred :D) etc
You probably get the idea.
I remember seeing a video. Specifically, a plaque on the engine or nearby reading "I am the thoroughbred of steam, born to run, born to be free. Forgive them lord, they know not what they do." I'm glad that the museum is dedicated to finding places for her to go and stretch her legs while she has boiler time.
26:45 This is when I met 611 as a kid. I didn't really care until we got there and saw the engines in person. Dad (being an old N&W guy) looked the other way as I jumped the barrier and climbed into the cabin. It was just so giant and cool.
34:19 Why is Roanoker a weird name? That's what all of us from Roanoke are called. (The city was Big Lick before that, so we woulda been Big Lickers, which I personally think is much weirder.) Also, you say it weird lol. Roan is one syllable. Pronounced "rown" just like the horse hide of the same spelling. (NOT row-an.) Oh, BTW the restaurant off of interstate spur 581 by the same name still has great traditional Southern food. I used to count the days 'til I got to go order their ham and red-eye gravy again as a child.
36:29 You say Powhatan weird too. Don't put emphasis on hatan. It's Powah-(Jeremy Clarkson lol) Tan. Emphasis on tan only.
Members if the Roanoke Chapter were " irresponsible" for the hot water pump damage. Warning No. 1 "You had better winterize it or you ate liable to have freeze damage." At the end of the 1977 season, I went back and asked if anything had been done to winterize the 611. I warned Jim Maclain, the museum director " You had better blow it out, and you will need a big air compressor.". I was walking around the museum grounds. I just couldn't believe it. There was a large air compressor sitting there.The City of Roanoke had lent the museum a compressor so large that it had car tires on it. The museum was going to use the compressor to power a jack hammer to remove part of a concrete sidewalk in order to install a two foot train track. When the 611 came back to Roanoke, three of us, all ( Allegany Central crew members ) were eating at a restaurant in Roanoke. One of them had just moved to Roanoke. I asked him if he was going to join the Roanoke Chapter NRHS. " Hell no! I was down in Birmingham. They did $30,000 worth of damage to the 611 when it was in the park.".
My absolute favorite 4-8-4. I love the streamlining. So fast, efficient (for a steam locomotive), modern, so much to love about this beauty queen.
Excellent video
Perfect timing for this video, i got to ride on the 611 excursion this past sunday, she's my favorite steam train and im so excited to learn more about her ❤
611 was also saved due to a public plea during the late 1950s early 1960s
I signed a petition to save her while riding on the excursion to Williamson on 10-24-59. Also the late ( the great ) Arthur Owens who was City Manager from the late 1940's until the 1970's told me he talked to H.C. Wyatt after a church vestry meeting about saving the 611.
oh nice man I do have a Pocahontas Glory volume 5 dvd that shows the 611's retirement excursion in late 1950s even mentions the claytor bros and jim biseline and such
Rode behind 611 last week, and then I watch this! Very well done!!
Time stamp 18:53
O yeah, that’s what it’s allllll about, vintage perfection all the way around.
Beautiful shot of the front and back end.
I happened to be on the trip out of Chicago on the old NKP to some town in Bumble F IN. where the train could be turned on a wye NS had limited its top speed to 40 MPH not very exciting. However I did notice a few times by timing the mileposts we actually hit 50.
What is probably even the most surprising is that even in the late 50's the scrap value of a 4-8-4 was maybe $10K and as more and more Steam Locomotives were retired their scrap value dropped immensely due to the scrap market being glutted in the early to mid 50's the NYC was receiving about $10K for their Hudson's as scrap. A good reference point is IC 4-8-2 #2613 a group wanted it donated to them in 1960 but the IC was only willing to sell it for $5K but they did not have the money so it ended up scrapped.
Even people with little railroad history knowledge know that 611 is a very special lady.
I’m lucky enough to have seen the 611 for the first time in November of 2023. Learning about its history and the history of where I saw it (Staunton, VA) has sparked an interest in me the learn more about trains in general. Love at first sight I guess 😂.
According to The Roanoke Times, Preston Claytor quit the steam program because of people like Bev Fitzpatrick insisting that that sily "Spirit of Roanoke" slogan be put on the engine. In museum parlance, it's called" a distortion of the historical record". They are always looking for some scheme to " put Roanoke on the map", regardless of how tacky or pretentious it is.
There isn't a video you do that isn't stellar but this one was cool as heck as I always like J-Class videos.
Thanks for posting I enjoyed watching
I rode all the J's when I was a kid. From Cincinnati to Roanoke. By the way, my aunt worked for the Appa-latch-un Power Company.
30,628 miles between scheduled monthly maintenance. All those miles in a month on a line like the N&W? My goodness the Js man.
I was wating for it 😆😆 hell yea.. Mr pearl men that's the funny it's stuff iv seen in a long time...am going to rewatch that one again...👍👍😆
What a great story. Thanks cobber, cheers mate.
What a mechanical wonder. I would have loved to have seen and heard that monster. Brilliantly researched and presented as usual. So much information.. many thanks Darkness.
I got the opportunity to chase the Saturday trip from Lynchburg to Petersburg in June, 2015, and I got to ride the Spencer to Asheville trip in 2016. I’ll give 611 this, it’s definitely an impressive engine.
611 is my favorite passenger steam locomotive.
Great video and verry informative! Long Live the Queen!
I went to a modelr railway event at ST Margaret's Chruch today and one of the layouts had a model of 611 on and since she's my absolute favourite steam engine from the USA, The owner of the layout actually put it on running for me
DBZ abridged in a HitD video is not something I was expecting, but I chuckled regardless. Great video as always.
The Queen of Steam herself. This should be a good one!
Yeah,i feel sorry for you and the Lv because well unlike railroads like UP PRR,(or even rr which have locomotives with unknown status like Erie has a Pacific MIA in korea.)Well they dont have much about there history while yes it had to scrap its engines most railroads left a few in a gesture of civilic goodwill and to represent there history(ei golden age).How quickly was the value wasted on the scrap worth of those engines howver these have somehting tangible something to represnt the railroad(past or present)forever and ever.
@@vaclavmacgregor2464southern rr also did a good job as well
@@williammacdonald3173eHHHH KINDA I GUESS.
No heavy mikes nos 2-10-2S NOT EVEN OLD 97.
AND 4501 WASNT PRESERVED BY IT WAS SOLD THEN SAVED THEY DIDNT CARE!(They did however save some important ones like there pacifics and 2-8-0s)
Rode behind her on the second manassas trip in 2015. Was amazing to see her under steam on mainline trackage as well as the huge crowds all weekend as it was also the annual railway festival weekend there
Steam locomotives are amazing and beautiful machines but unfortunately they are horrendously expensive to maintain. 😢
My favourite American Steam Loco !
I got to be the fireman (briefly) in Spencer a couple years ago, then rode the Shenandoah Valley Limited in the dome car. Absolutely worth it! You only live once. Go out and cross some items off your bucket list.
The Queen got more chances than she could ask for
You forgot thst she met up with the legendary 4-4-0 names texas while being restpred at spencer
I got to ride in her cab in 2022 at Strasburg RR. And saw her at the PRR museum outdoor display.
611 also derailed in Norfolk for her N&W excursions. Also yay my hometown was mentioned
12:03 YES
Another thing I forgot to mention about the N&W Js, when put against a pair of Southern Railway EMD E6s, the J actually won, even in overall maintenance costs by about 30%. It even beat the E units in availability by 2%, utilization by 9%, and operating costs by 29%. When the Niagara was put against the E units (E7s to be more precise), the results were actually very close, with the E unit beating the Niagara in utilization, though the Niagara had a very slightly higher availability. Yeah it was the E6 and E7, but were there any major performance differences between the 2 E units?
PTC= Petty Train Control!
LOL - them little tangents u be going on are funny as hell - LOL
If anyone here hasn't seen footage of 611 stalling and restarting on the loops, watch it now
This is my favorite steam locomotive. A real Choo Choo train. I do wish her whistle (?) was louder, with a bit more "WHOOO!"
Really am hoping they bring her back to the Buckingham Branch next year, as I intend to see her if they do. What a beautiful locomotive, and my second favorite 4-8-4 (only just barely beat out by SP 4449)
I just cannot get enough of listening to her new Hancock 3 chime
Don’t suppose you have or are going to do anything about the Hiawatha line? Thought it be a cool idea especially for local Wisconsin folks who might want to know more about lines in the area
When the Age of Steam Museum purchased the 763, they want to try and give them the 578 and cash to boot. According to an article in The Roanoke Times. The VMT Collections Committee, run by car buffs, only wanted cash. "Railfans are treated as if they are the unwashed." (smell bad )said a former VMT vice president. When the 2156 was put on display at the VMT, its main rods were'nt put on for weeks. I think that People with any sort of resume ABSOLUTELY hate Eugene Elliot, who have heard is now head of the Collections Committee. About twenty years ago, a person said "If Eugene Elliott was to die, I'd like to be the first one to spit on his grave. "I hate him more than you do." I responded. Another person said "Whoever wants to be first has to be second. I want to be first." Another person snickered "I think that a whole lot of people would like to be that line."
I'd be really interested in someone trying to make a replica of the J1 austerity subclass. It's unnecessary, sure, and the resources would definitely be better used on another new build or restoration project, but I think it'd be cool.
UP's 844 & 4014 maybe BIG CHUCKUS, but the 611 is just Elegance on rails.
I just wish the Virginia museum of transportation did the same thing to 1218 like they did to 611
1218 is a way more difficult task. She's missing many parts and even without that problem she's huge. Expensive to fix, expensive to run, and there aren't a lot of places that can handle a Mallet. Finding space to run 611 is difficult enough right now. It's a shame, but I'm sure they'll keep her safe for the moment.
@@HistoryintheDark yeah it would be cool if that happened by the way, is it OK if I make a video suggestion?
@bdvids7930 You can always suggest. Just know that doesn't necessarily mean I'll do it, but I'm always open to them.
@@HistoryintheDark all right maybe you should do a video about the Climax at Roaring Camp and it’s history it’s not really well known plus it’s a logging excursion star that is kind of in pieces right now, but will be restored eventually in the future
@@HistoryintheDark Frankly, steam engine parts are ludicrously easy to forge compared to components from modern combustion engines. We could do it if we get the support.
I think there are more chances for steam to return to mainlines. The two operational AT& SF Northerns both have ptc installed and cpkcs 2615 will becon the mainlines next year
Imagine how different history would have been if a N&W Class K2 or K2a (a 4-8-2 version of the Class J) had been preserved instead of an actual Class J like 611.
The bad: the Js were the original streamlined engines of the N&W, so not having at least one J preserved would suck.
The good: America would have one operational 4-8-2 with a N&W Class K2/K2a instead of zero.
R.I.P. N&W 116-137
When will you do a video about n&w 1218 and y6a 2156
4:42 that is actually 611 damaged after colliding with a truck.
The legendary streamliner herself
Local here, Strasburg is pronounced straz-berg think Chaz no "au" sound. And burg as in iceberg. Don't feel bad, a lot of people seem to get tripped up on it. have a nice day.
I got to see N&W Y6a 2156 in person and the only thing on my mind was Fire Up 2156, ( As Ilike to call it Fire Up 56 )
“OUR BATTLE WILL BE LEGENDARY!!!” LMAO!!!! 🤣
Graham Claytor was a WW2 destroyer escort captain and rescued survivors of the Uss Indianapolis
I thank 611 an 4449 would make a pretty lash up
611 is the queen of steam, Flying Scottsman is the king of steam and the Big Boy is the CHAD of steam
A side question: I understand there was at least one steam locomotive touring the country, during the Bicentennial Year (76). One passed through Grand Rapids, Mi, headed west, then backwards east. I know this, because my apartment was adjacent to the rr right of way, and I saw it both times. The question: Is anyone here familiar with that tour? What make, etc. was it?
the best Northern type ever built, but the predecessor 4-8-2 class K3 was a desaster. Counterbalancing went completely wrong and it destroyed the rails at the speed it was intended for. It ended its life in helper service on Rio Grande.
K-1s had counterbalance problems also.
Long live the Queen!
These j class 4-8-4 is just a stretched new York central j class 4-6-4. Very great looking locos. At 9,949 dollars for a full steam loco. Were is the time machine so I can go back and buy this j class and nyc j class.
I want to hear about the X-12. I heard about it on found and explained and I know you the curse can do better!
I enjoy your videos, but can you branch out a bit? I kinda hate how people act like surviving excursion stars are the ONLY steam locomotives that ever existed. Like I’d love a video on the Hiawatha, Cincinnatian, Yankee Clipper, Southwind, Sunbeam, Crusader, the C&NW streamliners. Blue goose. Aeolus. (Even though 4000 is still around but not streamlined) Something that we can’t go out and see today. There’s SO MUCH out there that no one talks about simply because it isn’t around today. And that is WILD to me.
Sure! I can look into making some full documentaries on extinct locomotives.
Exactly! And it seems like HITD foams over 611. He needs to branch out a little bit from overrated locomotives
The locomotive that was known as Aeolus when it was streamlined is in fact preserved, albeit unstreamlined, in a park in Fort Morgan, Idaho.
@@jordonfreeman166 I mentioned that. lol.
Was 611 ever paired with Amtrak F40'S???
Surprised you didn't show any recent footage of her post-2015 for the last part? Copyright perhaps?(though I think that's farfetched)
Copyright concerns, yes.
Powhatan is Pow-a-Tan,
You didn't mention the May 1986 excursion when some of the cars she was pulling derailed in the Dismal Swamp between Suffolk, VA & Chesapeake, VA. Some folks had to be airlifted out from that one. Caused by a problem with a switch on the track.
We enjoyed our trip on her in October. I should warn you however, that mispronunciation of Staunton, has resulted in getting people shot in the past. You may want to learn how to pronounce it correctly ;-)
It's amazing to think there's only 4 streamlined engines in america
How fradulent and irresponsible it would have been to squander funds sent in good faith to restore the 611 on a shop at the VMT capable of restoring a steam locomotive. There was already one at Spencer. I have heard that railfans who contributed to the 611's restoration in good faith were furious. The museum backed down. If funds sent in good faith to restore the 611 had been used for a shop in Roanoke, where would you get the money to restore the engine? This ill concieved attempt was just assinine administrative incompetence on the part of the VMT board, as well as an unethical missappropriation of funds, in my opinion. I remember when I heard that Mr. Claytor resigned had resigned from the VMT board, not even completing one term. I told Preston how sorry I was that he had resigned from the VMT board. "Dad thinks that they are fools." he commented.
39:29 Staunton is pronounced “Stan-ton”
Who will win?
The Claytor brothers with 611
VS
Alfred E. Pearlman with his *CHAINSAW*
13:10 who is that guy?
You didn’t pronounce the name of the Powhatan Arrow correctly. Powhatan (pronounced pow-ha-TAN)
They need to bring back 1218
YES PLEASE ❤️❤️❤️🙏❤️❤️😃😃😀
J 611 | History
Cool Video. I've got to correct you on 1 thing. It's not Lager, WV its. Iager, WV. Say it with a Y not an L even though its spelt with an I
I almost got the chance to meet her in 2022, but at the time of my visit to Strasburg, she was in one of the sheds, out of public view.
BTW, are you planning on doing a video on 587?
4449says :hello my Roanoke cousin
12:18 clayter vs pearlman southern fried showdown, dont wait, dont delay, come one come all for the greatest match you've ever seen