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DANGEROUS ANIMAL DEFENSE Ballistic Test - Underwood .44 Mag VS .357 Mag Hard Cast
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2023
- Testing the Underwood .357 Mag 180 gr flat nose hard cast VS the Underwood .44 Mag 305 gr flat nose hard cast in a "big game ballistic test" with 54" of 10% Clear Ballistics and 1/2" medium density fiberboard that represents animal ribs. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...
If anyone wondered why I used the Underwood 9mm+P 124 gr flat point FMJ instead of the 147 gr Hard Cast, it's because the 124+P FMJ does much better. In the past I ran the same "dangerous game" ballistic test with 1/2" MDF with Underwood's 9mm+P 147 gr Hard Cast, got about the same energy as the FMJ but got just 22" of penetration. The FMJ goes a full foot deeper, which is no surprise in that for 9mm, a 147 gr is always a reduced power load because of limited case capacity.
Have you ever tried 357 mag 158gr vs 180gr for penetration?
OK, reduced case capacity! Otherwise it wouldn´t make any sense.
I have always thought that 147 grain is heavy for 9x19. Case capacity makes sense for the 124 grain. It is the only weight I personally use in 9x19. For me, I think 124 grain is the best compromise between sectional density and velocity in 9mm.
I use federal american eagle flat nose FMJ 147g. The bigger the better, the heavier the better. In terms of power, .357 and .44 are way above 9mm.
Dang I'm rambling!!! Sorry lol that's what I get for commenting at midnight!!! Lol
Well done. I once heard a statement, "use the most powerful round that you can make consistant hits with". This video really proves that.
Its a good statement to go by, hitting with a smaller caliber accurately is usually better than hitting with a large caliber with crap accuracy and long follow up shots when it comes to stopping a charging animal. If you hit a brown bear thats charging you accurately in the head with a 22lr it will have more of a chance of stopping the bear than a .500 S&W where you hit the bear in the leg or what not and cant follow up in time. Extreme example but it fits.
I don't know how I never found your channel before yesterday. I appreciate your efforts at making these informative videos. The editing and split screen stuff is awesome. You even have a voice for narrating. Great work!
Thank you
Yea the split screen stuff is definitely cool. I always wanna see the target when ppl chronograph their shots.
Long, slow, heavy for caliber bullets with a flat nose and sharp should will wreck everything. Bigger holes are certainly better
But… czcams.com/video/T6kUvi72s0Y/video.html
Dude it's videos like this that make me happy to be a 357 mag fan
Youve clearly demonstrated that flat nose ammo is the way to go. It flies much straighter. I also prefer moderate to maybe full power 240gr .44 for the woods. Its heavy and powerful enough.
I personally run hard cast 255 gr Underwood .44 Mag through my Ruger Redhawk 5.5" - very manageable (average sized male hands), highly accurate and plenty of power. I agree with a somewhat milder load - 255 gr is just right for me, 305 gr (I tried Grizzly ammo) and that one IS too stout for my taste for sure.
Control with penetration is way to go. I read about alaskan comments from game wardens most people can't shoot hand canon's well enough for bullet placement because of recoil and people get killed by bear then it dies from wounds, because shooter is not accurate enough with shot placement with a gun they can't control. Very good and well done video thanks 😊 for doing them!
Filmed 6/1/23
Gold dots are one of the few rounds i trust in about any self defense caliber. They have just always worked for me.
You are a real trooper shooting thst 305 grain hardcast in that smaller 44mag! 😳😬👍🏻
Nice demo! Interesting that the 357 and 44 bullets had the same length/SD, and they penetrated almost exactly the same---just like they're supposed to. The 357 looks quite viable for bear defense and probably a better choice for the average shooter. The 44 definitely has a lot more power, though.
I would agree, 357. Is good for anything short of grizzly, kodiak and polar bears. And even then.. if you had to dump a cylinder of 357. Into a grizzly or polar. I'm pretty sure it'd do the job. 10mm will do it and it's basically a semi auto 357.
@@youngboyharless9769In the Arctic, researchers doing studies were charged by a large Polar Bear. One of them was armed with a .357 Magnum. It only took 3 shots to stop and kill it.
Hi Sam, great test. Hardcast videos are my favorite. Thanks
Very, very good demonstration and comparison. Many of us would make the assumption that the bigger the better. More power is "always" a good rule to follow. When a gent of your size and experience concludes that a lower power offering to put shots on target is "better", that speaks volumes. A less experienced shooter would likely struggle to put good shots on target in that stressful of a situation. I like a 240 XTP with 23.5gr of H110 for about everything in our 44s. The 3" 629 is a real handful and loses a substantial amount of velocity. The 6" isn't bad at all with practice.
Yes, I run Underwood 255 gr hard cast in .44 Mag out of my Ruger Redhawk 5.5" barrel and I'd say the exact same it isn't so bad, very accurate and plenty of power.
Bro, the best setup for practical real-world bear testing would be hiring a Russian (Because, is..... Bear!) wearing a half-bear, half-pig costume to charge you in slow motion, assisted by rocket propulsion, lured out by a pic-i-nic basket filled with watermelon and vodka, while surrounded by a speaker system playing Meatloaf's "I would do anything for love (but I won't do that)". Anything else isn't a test providing actionable real-world data.
I had to. Your comment about the pulley system got the gears turning.😂
Interesting. I have some of that Underwood 180gr hardcast. I'll say it's not noticably harder-shooting than your typical full-power 158gr SJHP type round. I still wouldn't feel under-gunned at all with it. For me I don't have a ton of interest in 44mag.
For me, the 180 gr has more push than lighter ammo, but it's less snappy. Feels overall like most other ammo in terms of overall recoil, just more muzzle rise.
You should've used your 44 Special hard cast, just to see the penetration.
Yes that would have been interesting to see how deep it would get. More controllable than the 44 mag but bigger hole than the 357.
That .357 load is what I carry in my model 28 when out hiking. It’s great stuff!
See my comment above. Buffalo Bore 180 gr gas check Chrony a legit 1400 fps plus from a 4 inch barrel. Controllable , and puts a 4 inch 357 into 41 mag power range
A Glock 20 with dangerous game loads would've been fun to see in that lineup. Great shooting @ 75yds with your .357.
WIDE MEPLAT IS WHERE ITS AT!
All in HARD CAST!! ❤❤❤❤❤
The 44 magnum in that model 69 you need it quad ported to keep the barrel down. You must be using the best setup and test porting that beast. A taller front sight will help you with hitting at 75 yards with that model 69 too.
357 remains king!
I like a 148 grain hard cast DEWC in my 38 "kit" gun at about 900 fps. Mild recoil and deep penetration.
Mr. Gun Sam sacrifices hand for humanity.
Dude, you must have balls of titanium. I'm not one bit recoil shy but I'm not going to put over a couple of rounds of those 305 gr monsters through a double action revolver. A 6" Ruger Super Blackhawk is another story. That would be a fantastic round for close range deer hunting. A single action is much more pleasant to shoot than a double action. Growing up I heard all the stories of how a 44 mag would break your wrist and all of the usual bs. I bought a imported 6" 44 mag single action several years ago and after the first shot with a full house 240 gr SP I was wondering where all of the unholy recoil was. Sure it had some kick, but it wasn't painful in the least. The way a single action is designed, it's supposed to roll in the hand and that makes it easy to shoot without beating your palm blue. After a little practice I could run several boxes through it before my wrist started getting sore. If you try to fight the gun and have a death grip on it, sure it'll be a rough. You're supposed to let the gun roll back and up in your hand and then it's a pleasure to shoot. Someday I'll have a Ruger GP100 357 with a 4" barrel and that will become my next EDC. I absolutely love my 4" 1911 45, but the GP100 357 is more versatile, effective and reliable than any semi auto, including the 10mm. A Ruger revolver is built like a tank and has the best warranty on the market, plus their customer service is second to none. I learned to shoot with a revolver and shot them for years before semi autos were even a thing here in the US. If a revolver was good enough for people like Wyatt Earp and all of the old west gun fighters and every branch of law enforcement until the late 80's, it's definitely good enough for me.
If Wyatt Earp was in his same role in our time, he would be carrying a 9mm or .40sw. He used modern tech then, why wouldn’t he now?
I've shot 305 gr (Grizzly ammo) through my .44 Mag 5.5" Redhawk and it is too stout for me. However, the 255 gr Underwood hard cast is comfortable to shoot, highly accurate and plenty of power. I was debating single/double action when I bought mine and ultimately went with double action in case I got injured during an attack and couldn't cock the hammer. Rugers ARE built tough, which is why I went with one.
I'm not totally surprised by the results although that 9mm+P did better than I expected. I've heard people who live in big bear country say they carry a .357 mag because of exactly what you showed. I've not fired any of the 305 grain Underwood from my 629 but I imagine its a handful to try and control, especially in a high stress moment like a bear charging you. I kind of want to get some just to see now.
my Ruger Alaskan shoots 44mag. it's pretty tough to get multiple shots off quickly and stay on target. It's also moderately unpleasant to practice with. I often find myself carrying a 10mm (G20 or 1911) because I'm far more likely to get the target multiple times. (note: no Griz in my part of Idaho)
75 yards with the 357 mag was good shooting and great ammo consistency.
Yes, you definitely need a sight adjustment from 240s to over 300 grain bullets in 44. Also it seemed you were shooting right with 44 at 25 yards. Could be you, could be sights.
Either way I enjoyed watching, thanks
Very cool video today, thanks for the work!
great videos Sam
Gun Sam I've got to say , I don't know how you do it ? Your ability to hit at 75yds is outstanding ! Aside from that , the video is awesome . Thanks for informing us .
Not bad with that beast. Large bore. Big holes. 300 grain bullets should stop pretty much anything. You have convinced me to buy shooting gloves.
Great comparison video. I've been loading Missouri Bullet Co Elmer K 240 hardcast over 10gr unique. 1240fps and good penetration in milk jugs. I wonder how they'd do in your gel setup? Let me know if you want some ammo/components to try out.
Wowzers, congratulations on 60K subs, Sam!!! That's a lot of sandwiches
I cast a 265gr rnfp Ranch Dog designed bullet for my .44 mag. This bullet is cast from 50/50 Linotype/wheelweight lead, then water dropped to maximize hardness. Loaded with 24gr of H110 (This is a very hot load, but is safe in MY gun), giving me a muzzle velocity of 1500fps out of my 7.5" barrel. Talk about an absolute deer slayer! No need for expansion with a .44, just the right bullet design.
Do any 41 magnum?
@@anonymousf454 Not yet, but I did just buy a 10mm. If it will feed a 200gr RFN bullet, that's likely what I will cast for it.
Great I’ve been waiting for this test !
I'm impressed! I use the plus p hard nose in my 9mm when I'm in the back woods. I didn't think it wold travel that far. There are no grizzly bears where I live in Backwoods North Carolina, just an occasional Sasquatch
The steel was jumping around with the .44 magnum because you were hitting the edge of it. Probably wouldn’t have jumped around as much if you were getting center mass hits with the .44 magnum.
But this video really confirmed my own experience that .357 magnum is the better revolver for an average person (and I’m very average).
Love the .357 in a good heavy steel Ruger.
Dude your channel is awesome! Keep up the good work and keep showing revolver love.
Great tests ! That’s the bullet I carry in my .357 !
In my .44 I carry 310 grain hard cast WFN !
The 180 grain has an advantage over the 9 mm weight !
The .44 in my testing does more damage than the .357 does and some of that is because the .44 is larger diameter!
So tearing a larger hole seems a + to my targets!
I’m not saying the .357 with 180 grain hard cast wouldn’t do the task at hand because it will !
Good job on this, very informative.
Imo putting that 305gr through a 6in barrel or longer is the way to go with that round.
I'm thinking lever action carbines.
I think for recoil and control the underwood 44 special Keith load does most of what the 44 magnum does. Even vs 357 mag too.
Those magnums are boss! Thanks for the video
Sam , you should really try a Rhino in 357 . I have had surgery on both my hands and out of desperation it picked up a Rhino in 357 magnum. Because it reduced some of the recoil . It allows me to still fire a magnum.
I like 357 But I'm pausing right at the beginning to say that load needs more meplat to compete with 44. Especially that particular 44 has very generous meplat.
There is video to do, short barrel vs long with same caliber? 38/357 44/44M 2 inch vs 6 inch ?.. Thanks again Sam.
Definitely subbed! Loved how intricate with as many details as could be! Great content! Keep it up!
Thanks!
You are way tougher than I am. Absolutely no way I would shoot that 44 load in a Model 69! Might try it in a 7-1/2 Ruger SRH though. Amazing channel!
I run 255 gr Underwood hard cast in .44 Mag out of my 5.5" Redhawk and it's very manageable, accurate and plenty of power. 305 gr was too stout for me.
Awesome demonstration as always love your test I've seen a few other people but your the best from what I can find. 👍 🫡 🤜🤛
❤Handguns for backup but would prefer a 12-gauge and also 30 caliber rifle for big threats
Ah YES! - the video I was looking for. I have all the calibers you tested. Let's talk about the .44 Mag. I have a Ruger Redhawk 5.5" (basically 6") barrel and it is highly accurate. I practice with it around 7-15 yards as that is about what I would expect in an encounter with a dangerous predator (black bear specifically for me). I had no problems getting tight grouping, a tad less with double action but still well within black on a "pie plate." 305 gr IS narly (I have Grizzly loads in that) and I don't like it - honestly a bit too strong for me. Even the 270 gr jacketed SP flat nose by Buffalo Bore is REALLY strong, so I go with Underwood 255 gr hard cast in .44 Mag and it's absolutely GREAT! Very manageable (for me) average size male hands I am guessing, recoil isn't so bad, very accurate and plenty of power. I use it as my hiker/hunter backup woods carry and don't go in the big bear woods without it. I trust mine, BUT it does require practice. May want to try the 255 gr hard cast Underwood in .44 Mag and retest this - I think you'll have better results and I'd bet a beer on it. Sam, great videos thanks for taking the time, effort and cost to give us a quality presentation.
Hi gun Sam now you are talking what I carry revolvers for most of the time. I carry my ruger security 6 4" 357 in town. In the woods I carry my ruger super Blackhawk hunter 7" 44 mag using handloaded 240 grn hardcast heat treat bullets fom Montana bullet works. Full power imr 4227. . And also my ruger blackhawk 357 7". Both revolver are very accurate. I shot a deer last season with the 44. And the bullet went completely through the deer and came out near its tail. It was close to 40 yard shot. The deer went nowhere. I really like hardcast bullets for hunting. 😊😊 God bless. This is a awsome video. You are a good shot. Thank you😊
Yes. Overall the .357 is a better choice unless, like, you're trying to get your morning coffee and a bunch of punks are robbing the bank across the street and you tell the coffee waitress to call the beat cops but the punks try to take off before the beat cops get there so you gotta go stop them and that's when you really, really need the .44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and it will blow your head clean off as long as you remember to count your rounds unless there's a lot of chaos and you lose count. Yeah, that's when you really need the .44.
Great video. I appreciate your reviews. Once again it comes down to the old adage of carry what you can comfortably shoot and get hits with on target. I'd prefer a .357 mag hole in the bear than a .44 mag hole in a tree.
Its funny because a .357 magnum is actually .357 in cartridge diameter whereas a .44 magnum is .429 inches in diameter. you would only looking at .072 in dia projectile difference, albeit Significant in power performance.
Shout out to vortex nation podcast for that.
The surface area of the .429 is nearly 1.5× bigger than the .357. Hits on target are what count, AND since the bear is already committed to the attack, more hits may be needed, so hits become more important as the distance closes. That said, to get the sectional density of the .429 305 grain bullet, one would need to be shooting a 212 grain from a 357.
@@williamgaines9784 Shoot until the threat isn't a threat!
@@moshkid16 👍
I believe that both of them are setup to handle the given situation! I would take the one that you shoot the best!
By already having confidence in that particular revolver.. that's one less thing running through your brain!
Now.. Mr Bear can cover 50 yards in 3 seconds! Aim low chest if he's barreling down on you.. you'd be less likely to shoot over him as he's closing the distance!
That being said.. no one wants to be in the scenario.. and if that bear is actually hunting for you.. you will not know it's coming until it's too late 😮
Thank goodness.. that is the rarity! Most bears head for the hills as soon as they smell you.. let alone hear you and see you!
They are not hiding behind every other tree waiting to pounce.. that would be the TIGER 🐯
Great shooting and the information was awesome too!
Thanks for sharing this brother
👍😊 I’ve shot one of those 305s through a super Blackhawk 4 5/8 barrel it was a hand full.
Beautiful testing. I have a few of the Underwood loads, much cheaper than the Buffalo Bore stuff, and works well enough for me. If I want more power, I load my own, but for factory rounds these are pretty good.
I go with Buffalo Bore these days for revolver cartridges - underwood seems to rarely meet the rated velocities on their revolver ammo for some reason.
Its all about practice if you know youll be around big bears practice practice then practice more. I couldn't shoot my 47t Limbaugh very good wheni first got it even though i was shooting a 350gr 46 colt at 1200fps very good . After some practice i could shoot a 430gr 475 almost as good as my 45. The right tool for the job and practice is all it takes
Sam. Thx for another good presentation. This video shows that bigger is NOT always better in Ammo caliber if you can't put rounds on target. The 44 disappointed & surprised me in the penetration gel test. I wonder if a longer barrel on the 44 would have produced different accuracy? Anyway, Thx again for a job well done!
i would take 4 of 5 on target with the 44 any day over 5 of 5 with the 357 against a bear. and yes a longer barrel and heavier frame makes a world of difference. it's the difference between hunting and target shooting. 7½" super redhawk has no problem throwing 350gr painlessly
@@boedude8496 I agree. I put that out for discussion and thank you for your input. I like the S&W 8 3/8 barrel but that is a personal preference. I also prefer the 454 Casual over the 44 Mag.
yes, the 454 is quite a bit more powerful. it was my first firearm purchase, back in '88. now i have the marlin 1894 to go with it. now waiting to get the 460 pair. i like it better than the 500 for some reason
@@boedude8496 Nice. I have the S&W 460 and 500 Both in 10 inches. I like the 460 better also. The 460 is flatter shooting and hits almost as hard as the 500. Have a good day.
My go to bear load is 44 mag Buffalo Bore 265 dangerous game load, 1425 fps and 1195 ft lbs of energy. My woods 44 is a 629 4" Magna-ported, It had an action job. I love how fast i can get back on target with this combo. I do have a Colt 8" Anaconda and 8 3/8" Raging bull, these are good hunting guns but as a woods gun my 629 rides along. My son has shot one round of the buffalo bore through his 69, it turned his hand pink. Watching you shoot that 69 said you are devoted to trails and tribulations. Hope the sting leaves soon. Just love the 44!
I do like your gell block setup and your excellent presentation
+ clear thinking.
Thank you.
I carry the 265 mono metal in a model 69 when hunting in bear country. This would be a decent second option if I ever run out of that
Loved the 9mm test, similar to what I want to see. I want a comparison between jsp, hollowpoint, and hardcast. Maybe .44 mag
I love the .44 mag/357 content!
327 Fed Mag Hard Cast Keith 130 Grain !!
Great Video. THATS why I choose .357mag.
Maybe you could do a video on 45 colt hardcast in a Vaquero or Single action. Alot of us carry 45 colt in the woods..🍻
45 Colt in a Ruger SBH frame will shoot higher SAAMI rounds safely (would not try it with a modern Vaquero or med-framed Ruger). Running hard cast 45 Colt with .44 Mag velocity is a true killer. I'd consider it but I already have a .44 Mag Redhawk 5.5" and with 255 gr hard cast Underwood that's good for black bear defense as it is.
I always carry a picnic basket in Bear Country. Gives me a chance to get back while the Bear puts down the picnic blanket.
I'll stick with the 9mm & 357 mag maybe 10mm 🤷🏻♂️ 357 mag is my favorite revolver caliber
Seems like a toss up between the 357 and 44. The 357 is less powerful but still has good penetration but follow up shots are easier due to less recoil. The 44 is more powerful but follow up shots are slower due to the heavier recoil. It would have been interesting to compare 240 grain soft points or FMJ in the 44 so see if follow up shots would be quicker than with the with 320 grain bullets and penetration depth. Thanks for another great video.
Have you tried rapid firing a 6inch Colt Anaconda 44 Magnum? Very controllable with hard recoilling ammo. It's 3 pounds and soaks up the recoil. Not a lot of fun to carry on a long hike though.
@@dimassalazar906 that's one of the problems because a defense handgun has to be carried all day long. So it has to be fairly light but the recoil has to be manageable for shot recovery. The 44 imag is marginal, but the 357 mag and 10 mm are more controllable and lighter, and they are still effective.
Based on actual accounts of bear attacks it is likely you will have to fire follow-up shots. Given that it is also not very reliable to drop a large bear with a shot to anywhere other than the brain, the ability to hit a target the size of it's face quickly and repeat that also very quickly a few times, ability to control the gun while in high stress is essential. This is why going with a gun and ammo combo that is at the extent of your shooting ability under range conditions is probably a bad idea. For this reason I would feel better protected with an effective .357 round over a potent .44 mag.. Maybe a more downloaded .44 that still penetrates deeply would be a great choice but I would rather have that 124 grn. 9mm +P Underwood load than that .44 load as I am not nearly as skilled a shooter as Sam.
There's an old saying "you can't miss fast enough".
that was nice to see the different 9mm loads right after each other
Interesting...Best “Big Game” comparison I’ve seen yet...
I will NEVER own another .44 mag with less than a 6 inch barrel. I carried a S&W 629 with a 2.5 inch barrel for years, and I hated that gun. Dreaded pulling the trigger. I sold it and bought a Taurus 627 357 mag with a 6.5 inch ported barrel a couple of years ago. I love it!
But I actually got mine because I was looking for a .44 Special with a 4" barrel. I figured this was just right, not a lot of intent to shoot magnum ammo.
I shoot a 6" Ruger but I've never seen 180 grain rounds for it but I would like to try them
Just a FYI in relation to this topic: Ballistic Dummy Labs now has Grizzly Bear Heads.
GS. Good and interesting video. Thanks for sharing. Take care.
Very nice video! I really appreciate the comparison. I have never fired a 305 gr out of a 44 mag.I normally shoot 240 gr would like to see that comparrisson. Couple of thoughts on a real life senecio whether it is bear charging you or a a bad guy with a gun. You are not going to remember recoil, slow your brain down and make each round count. That's why bad guys that are untrained look like idiots using the retreat spray and pray technic doesn't work.
The 180gr WFN is mighty impressive out of your 686!
I've carried the Buffalo Bore version in my 386 Mtn Lite as a lightweight hunting backup when elk hunting in the Rockies. 23oz when loaded with 7rnds. Kicks like hell but very accurate. I get 1180fps out of the 386's 3in barrel.
Can you Imagine what 44 MAGNUM 305 GR HARD CAST would do in a LEVER ACTION RIFLE with a 17 inch BARREL
Really enjoyed this video. You do great work. And I wouldn't want to shoot a 44 Magnum either! Biggest surprise was in the 9mm & how the different bullet designs performed. That flat nose 9mm +P did really good. I wonder how it would compare to some of the popular 9mm 147 gr. hard cast bullets in penetration out of a 4" barrel. I saw a couple of videos on the .41 Magnum & how it has 25% less recoil over the 44 Magnum while out penetrating it. Too bad .41 Magnum isn't more popular.
Thanks, the Underwood 124+P flat nose did 1,199 FPS/396 FPE in this 3.2" pistol. I don't think I ran the 147 gr hard cast in this pistol, but the Buffalo Bore 147 gr+P hard cast did 1,094 FPS/391 FPE in my 5" pistol, and I did the same test a year ago with about 5-6" gel then 1/2" MDF and it penetrated to just 20.5" compared to the 34" that the Underwood flat nose 124+P got.
I just found more data, I did run the Underwood 147+P gr hard cast in this 3.2" Taurus at 1,080 FPS/381 FPE. Same 6" then 1/2" MDF setup and got 22" of penetration.
44 mag is heavy recoiling and will make follow up shots slower. Try the Buffalo Bore 180 hard cast. It Chrony a legit 1400 fps out of a 4 inch barrel putting it in 41 mag range
A handgun, in .357 or 44mag, is at best, minimal power required for bear protection. Consider this, even the 44 mag does not have the stopping power of a 30-30 Winchester model 94. Try showing up in bear camp with a 30-30 and ask your guide if that is enough rifle for the brown bears you were planning on hunting. When he stops laughing he will probably tell you no. After spending 7 years in Alaska, and I do not consider myself a bear hunting expert, I felt much more comfortable carrying a model 37 Ithaca police 12 ga with slugs in bear country. You can't out run them, I clocked one doing 35kts through alders and heavy brush like it was nothing. The best you can hope for is to back away slowly from the surprised bear and hope he is not hungry or at least not be the slowest runner in your group. All the wild and crazy stories you have heard about brown bears are probably true, for the most part. Be prepared and carry enough medicine to cure your ills in bear country...
The point of a handgun for defense from large, tough animals is that it is always on you. When you aren't out hunting and you happen upon a mother and her young you may need to draw whatever you have on you. If you are hunting YES your long gun is what you would use, but again if for any reason you don't have it in hand your sidearm is on you. Many hunters still carry a powerful handgun as a backup and many other outdoorsman that might be fishing, for example, have their hands full often and thus only have their .44 or 10mm or whatever to rely on in a pinch. Handgun hunting is a thing too, where legal, but mostly people want a handgun on their side when in the woods even if they do have a rifle.
There was a guy a year or two ago that survived a grizzly attack and he had a long gun but the bear was on him too fast to swing it on target. A handgun might have just done it. I agree that .44 Mag is minimum for bear protection, talked to guys in Alaska who used it for brown bear defense - myself I use mine for black bear defense primarily and wouldn't venture into grizzly woods alone for one and secondly at least someone carrying a decent long gun that could do that job.
Gun Sam awsome video. You are shooting almost exactly what i hand load in .y ruger blackhawk. The cast lead is a very good revoler bullet. I have used both 357,and 44 mag and had very good success. Heavy lead hard cast are very deadly aginst anything. 😊😊
Gun Sam I love my 44mag ruger super Blackhawk hunter. It has a very heavy 7" barrel. With a top strap. The gun is heavy. And I shoot top hand load. It's very accurate and I carry in chest holster. It's never failed to take the deer I shoot. And my henry shoots the same load. Ide take a grizzly on with either. I love my 44 mags.
Gun Sam 44mag with real mag loads ain't for sissys 13:50
Gun Sam if you were shooting my 44 super black hunter. With full house. The heaviness would help deal with the recoil. My ruger almost weights as much as a lite rifle. . And it shoots very straight. Just ask the deer.😊 awsome gun Sam. 😊
327 Federal Magnum Dangerous Animal Defense !! Hard Cast Lead !!
Awesome video! You mightcwant to try Buffalo Bore's 9mm Outdoor load. There's a testimony from a customer on the sire describing a successful emergency take-down of a brown bear. Pretty compelling and unexpected!
That L framed 69 would be a handful with hot heavy rounds. More suited to a model 29 or 629 N frame with say a 6 inch barrel. I dont think you would experience powder burns with the larger N frame? The model 69 would be a better fit for 180 or 200gr hollow points for self defense. The big boys for dangerous game in a Super Blackhawk or Redhawk or N frame would reduce recoil and eliminate powder burns to your hands. I was definitely surprised how well the Underwood did in 9mm. But for bear or moose I would want the big bores.
Why don't you get a nice pair of gloves to protect your hands when shooting powerful loads since you have arthritis? If I remember the B.B. 180 gr HC shot at just over 1400Fps in your 686 --- In big grizzly country I'd choose B.B. over Underwood but down here (in the US) I would think the Underwood is just fine!
While gloves could be helpful against burns, I don't think they would have any effect on my condition. I have Rheumatoid Arthritis, and not Arthritis, so there's not much gloves would do.
Great video.
With the 300 or above 44 bullets at full velocity, you will need a higher front sight. With a 6 inch Model 29 S&W, my 300 gr full loads shot 18 inches high at 25 yards.
On my 2 and 3/4 inch S&W M69, I added a set of Pachmayr Diamond grips. The full load recoil is still there but the grips take the sting out with 240 and 250 gr loads. Havent tried the 300 gr bullets yet. This revolver is meant as a backup gun and a woods walker. I would go with the SWC 240 gr 44 Mag all copper loads for protection from animals.
BTW, Elmer Keith called the 357 Magnum "puny".
I would probably only use that 44 load in a full barrel lug 629 or a Colt Anaconda
Another excellent test!...thanks for sharing 👍
Great comparison of different cartridges.
Very well done video just like all the others you do! Just a foot note to let you know that in the last four years three grizzly bears have been killed in Alaska using the 45 ACP hardball. As few as six shots and as many as eight shots were used in all three instances. Jessie on life below zero carries a 10 mm on his hip for wolves and bears in Alaska. It’s not unusual to see many men and women shopping at the grocery store with a 45 or some other caliber on their hip when they go shopping for the month. Bears even attack within the city limits of Anchorage
Very good video and figured before watching the results the 357 w Hard Cast would preform well and the 44 mag would out preform, was interesting. KE is 1/2MV Sq and that will be a game changer if a large game. I carry underwood 200 hard cast in my Glock 27 when outdoors but sometimes carry the 629 with 305's if I get that feeling.
I live around Grizzly bears and blackies too, my 'bear-load' is .45 Colt +P .. 300 grain HARD cast g.c. flat nose @ 1200>1250 fps, it bucks HARD and is ONLY for Ruger single actions... YES I know there is a bear guide in Alaska that only carries a 9mm ... all I can say for him is, OK... but NOT for me... I can't shoot the .45 anymore, gave it to my son, now I keep my 12 gauge loaded with #4 buck and 1 oz slugs...
Love your videos. Respect your caliber load choices on this video. Hate the rap hip hop crappy music (not really music). But I am just an old retired cop who sold my 44 mag 30 years ago as recoil hurt too much.
I carried s&w .357 for 17years as my on duty weapon and unfortunately had to use it in a self defence/property defense shooting - i was hitting gang bangers at 80 to 90 ft - they were shooting at me - i was using hand loads ( 10.5 grains of Nitro Express powder ) fmj 145 grain hollow points
You made that shorts video to show 44 mag haters how follow up shots are possible then follow it up letting the recoil go lol
My wrist hurt just watching you! 👍
Great Video and fantastic shooting. I always felt the 357 with solid bullets is sufficient. If i went 44mag Id probably want a 6in N frame but carrying it around all day wouldn't be fun.
For the ordinary Joe in bear country I'd think that 9mm+p in a reliable pistol would be a better choice than either the .357 or the .44. Round count and ability to place a shot would make the difference. If one could handle 10mm that would be even better, but that round is similar to .357 in recoil and maybe not suitable for most folks - just my opinion.
i think in the real world is adrenaline and high heart rate would be the true test,,run forest run lol
Except that a grizz or brown bear can outrun an Olympic sprinter.
That's the thing though. One would have to calm that down whether in the woods or in the streets in order to shoot correctly and hit. Just part of life. I do however, wonder why so many people use 10mm Glocks for bear defense. Like, okay....let's take the pistol and caliber most likely to jam if not shot with a perfect grip, and put it in the hands of a person that just rolled down a hill, dislocated their shoulder when trying to escape that grizz, and expect them to shoot it with perfect grip and stance, left handed and with the mag fallen out somewhere under the leaves. To me, a revolver in general makes more sense. 10mm pistol capacity of 15 over 7 magnum rounds (on average) is worthless when you can't get more than one shot off and it jams.
@GunSam ya I would take a 357 revolver or 357 sig with correct ammo ,last but not least, shot placement