"Sir, You Can't Lock Your Checked Firearm That Way"
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 29. 06. 2024
- So this was a goofy experience, but hopefully my solution can be of help to some of you in future if you experience something like this. đ
Enjoy! đđđ
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Almost feel like we need a "Traveling with a firearm story" bingo card at this point to track which way(s) the airline/TSA messed up this time.
it only needs 1 square: TSA pulls a fucky-wucky
This is one that we wouldn't have found on that card. It might have been on an idiot bingo card in some form or fashion.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this one had nothing to do with the TSA. That looked like a regular airlines worker.
Could you imagine if you started playing in front of the agent
Brilliant
Years ago I was passing through Philly and TSA found a flashlight (gasp!) in my carry on.
"What is this?" demanded the security professional.
"That's a flashlight," I said.
"What's it for?" she asked.
I raised my voice slightly, so everyone around us could hear.
"You don't know what a flashlight is for?" I asked.
Some folks had already been listening, for this TSA lady was grouchy. Now, there were chortles and snickers, not only from other passengers, but from her own co-workers. She glared at me and put the flashlight back in my bag.
"Go on now," she said.
ETA: This was a completely normal looking flashlight. Black, cylindrical, nothing camouflaged, not a pocket fleshlight, etc.
Plot twist: It was really bw6618's fleshlight. đ€Ł
To be fair, there's some flashlights where you can question if they're not really carrying a club that happens to light up.
Wow. I don't even know how I would explain what a flashlight is for to an adult without sounding incredibly condescending. Like, you know. It's a light. For seeing? Because sometimes.... it is dark? I think I feel my brain melting.
Imagine you ask that from a brit... "That is a torch" ...
I brought a Fenix LR50R on a trip that required 4 flights each way. On the last leg inbound, security tried to make me check it, stating that it could be used as a "blunt-force weapon"
7-11 clerk: You want a bag for those chips?
Me: They're already in a bag.
đ I hadn't thought of that line but I like it
Pretty sure TSA workers are folks who failed the 7-11 exam.
@@DeviantOllam At supermarket checkout, "Do you want your milk in a bag?"
"No. I'm not Canadian. Leave it in the container."
@@life_with_bernie Generally the bags of milk are already in a bag (of 4 smaller bags).
You want a bag for those groceries?
Me: no thanks, I have a big steel box outside.
"Can you pull out your gun in front of a crowd of nervous, tired, angry people?"
As a former TSA worker - at my airport we discussed how the case itself being hardsided is perfectly fine. Supervisors and workers alike were informed, and the only time I had a problem was with people using lockout cables for the gun itself, rather than the case - but the regs (internal that is) aren't that hard to understand. Some people just don't like to think/read
did anyone mention the way the policy is worded it can also be interpreted also as hard-side case inside a larger unlocked soft bag? sometimes with ambiguity like that people don't see the other interpretation so think their way is the only way.
would it have been fine lose inside that case like he tried to do? i can see how they wouldn't like lose guns inside larger pieces of locked luggage, just in case they have to search it for any other reason so they don't have a gun flopping around.
@@Fausto_4841 We discussed it as both small hard sided case in soft bag as well as anything inside a locked hard-sided case, regardless of the size of that hard-sided case
I got into a very similar discussion flying back home from Portland. I also had a Pelican case with clothes etc in it and a soft zippered pistol bag. Airline clown tried saying ânothing else can be inside the hard case with the gunââŠâŠâŠI had her read out word for word BOTH the airlineâs police and TSA regulation, and she was ADAMANT, even though she couldnât point out where it said anything like thatâŠ..30 min later the GSC finally showed up and âclarifiedâ that I was correctly following all policies and regulations.
The US education system does not encourage critical thinking
And you put it in a bag, so it canât magically load ammo into itself.
If I had a dollar for each time I've had to help explain their own policies to them. I might be able to buy a couple boxes of nice ammo.
While it's annoying you always need to remain calm and polite when doing it, as dispute popular opinion they can just say "nope, not letting that on the plane". Airlines as private organisations aren't required to let you transport firearms aboard, just like they are not required to let you bring any other item they choose, and they are allowed to be arbitrary provided its not a "protected class" item (which firearms are not).
@@cgi2002 these are my medical service firearms
@@StrokeMahEgo worryingly it would not surprise me if someone has already tried that to get their guns someplace they aren't permitted. Some gun owners are so terrified of not been able to carry a gun that they will invent any reason to be allowed to. Best bit is, it's been proven time and time again that your actually safer not carrying a gun than carrying one in basically every situation (even an active shooter situation, as you just made yourself a priority target by been armed, also LEO's will shoot you before bothering to ask if your friendly then, as your a potential threat).
> Itâs in a hard case
> yes but thereâs a soft case in that hard case đ±
at what point does a large case with other stuff stop being a gun case and become a suitcase? I can see the need for a distinction some where.
@@Fausto_4841it doesnât need to be a gun case. It could also be a suitcase if the suitcase was hard sided and could be properly locked
I wonder if they'd have a brain aneurysm thinking about a pelican case in a soft sided bag.
@@bolivianPsyOp what is a gun case?
i mean that as a lawyer, not a reasonable individual with firearm experience. if i'm representing a corporation who wishes they didn't have to interact with firearms but has to anyways, i would ask for pistols to be contained in individual locked boxes like the kind they're sold new in. I don't want any of my baggage handlers touching any guns.
the compromise DO tried to make by dropping it lose in the large case is exactly what "i" don't want. luggage has to be checked for a number of reasons. by doing it that way, you are forcing every step of the line to be inspecting a gun case if they search your bag for one of those reasons.
Do you think that person at the front desk can be sure there's not an brick of coke or fentanyl in that whole case? when you check a firearm, that front desk person isn't certifying there isn't contraband in the rest of your baggage. designating your whole suitcase as your gun case causes other problems, basically risks for the airline, that small individual cases would lessen.
again, if i'm their lawyer, i wouldn't really want that soft bag bc i don't trust my baggage handlers bc they will be opening that box again without the owner present, but they've allowed it so my comments aren't really about that soft bag. personally, i understand their frustration, but that's also not how i would pack my bag.
â@@Fausto_4841They, ummm, aren't sold new in locked, hardsided cases. They come in cardboard boxes.
I had this same discussion with an AA rep when travelling with the same Pelican case and my AR pistol. The pistol was just sitting on top of my clothes/items in the case with my pillow on top of it all. AA: "But it needs to be in a hard case" Me: *slaps Pelican case* "This is a hard case." AA: "No, the gun needs to be in a hard case." Me: "Again, *slaps case* this is the case." Finally I told them to go get a manager because I'm following the AA policy. They got a manager, manager took a quick look and said "he's good to go, that is a hard case." This was Tampa International.
A colleague of mine said the same thing about AmericanAirlines in Arizona often, too
TSA should hire you to do training videos. Then we'll get to see when someone who's taken the training does or does not recognize you.
they NEED proper and clear rule sets and not the wishywashy crap they currently have.
That would defeat the purpose of their whole security theatre, so it would never happen
âStop Breaking My Fucking Locks: A TSA Firearms Training Videoâ
at least they might start recognizing him at airports lol
â@@AkiSan0tbh the TSA has fairly clear rules, they are just poor at training their staff to follow them properly, and even then you'll still occasionally find staff that want to do things differently
.
Also its not just the TSA rules, the airlines can choose to have additional rules ontop of theirs, hell the can ban firearms entirely on their aircraft if they wanted and it would be legal as they are not a "protected class" item, and airlines are not required to allow 2A rights as private bodies.
Holy shit I had the same "where's the hard sided case?" situation flying with a rifle and a couple handguns in my pelican case a few years back. I honestly thought I was being fucked with. I pulled out the airline policy and the TSA policy papers and started reading them back to the check in attendant, and at each mention of "locking, hard sided case," would pause recitation, look her dead in the eyes, and smack the peli case with the hand.
Total Katie Porter whiteboard moment there.
Prepared with facts, deadpan delivery, pause to let their ignorance and/or lies sink in.
I ran into this EXACT conversation when I was flying out of San Antonio to LAX. I had multiple pistols in small soft cases inside a very large Pelican. The lady refused to admit that they were, in fact, also in a hard sided case. It finally took a TSA person to show up and tell her she was wrong and I was right. This was about 7 years ago. And in SAN ANTONIO of all places.
Yikes. You'd think that employees in an airport that is not only located in Texas but also located near multiple major military bases would be much better trained about firearms.
@@jayschafer1760 Lets be honest, the TSA probably doesn't attract a lot of gun people in general
"Sir, I just need one moment to very briefly review my policies and procedures for this situation... Mhmm [reads policies].... Mhmm [checks case]... Sir, you have a wonderful flight."
Coulda been that easy...
It reminds me of just a week or two after 11th September 2001, I had a friend and his wife who were travelling at the time and ahead of him at security was an off duty serviceman who was carrying a handgun, he notified the security and asked if someone wanted to check in the fire arm so it could be carried in the hold. He was told they couldn't check it into the hold or have a crewmember 'look after it'. They said it was perfectly fine to take on board, they did however insist on taking his nail clippers incase he tried to take over the plane....
Literally coming back from Iraq we were stopped at the checkpoint and delayed boarding our charter flight because they "detected gunpower and / or explosive residue." You fucking think? They confiscated multitools and keychains, and then let us board with SAWs, M240Bs, and select fire M4s.
Stoopid
. *What about his shoes?*
You kinda think this kind of thing would be rare... but I know better.
My sister once worked for the TSA. Something like 15 years ago or so... so post-9/11 but pre-2010. May even have been pre-2006 (liquids ban) but unsure.
Anyway, her story is that she was told by her higher-ups to put together a "test package" to test the security checkpoints for carry-on luggage. So she goes and gets a certain small bag. Pretty much fills the thing with simulated explosive. The bag had a metal plate on the outside, not huge, but a few square inches. but decently thick. Behind this, inside the main compartment, she mounts a PCB and a 9v battery. She then runs something like 10" of wiring from the PCB along the top metal zipper to a simulated detonator positioned near another metal fitting on the outside.
This thing just *_sails right through_* security, multiple times. No one ever opens it, no one ever even *_questions_* it. A carry-on bag with a mostly homogenous filler. Looked real good in the X-ray monitor. Instead of the higher-ups stepping back and thinking "Oh my, we have a training and security-mindedness issue," my sister got reprimanded for making the test package "Too difficult."
You read that right. TSA management (at least at that time and in that place) reprimanded someone who, with little to no formal training beyond what TSA itself provided in detecting these things, constructed a simulated bomb that defeated the TSA's security measures in place at the time, and had the package been real, would have been cheerily let board whatever flight it was destined for, and we'd have had another Pan-Am 103.
She quit the TSA not long after, and I haven't flown since.
Well, TSA "agents" are low paid, low trained, glorified mall cops. No police powers, no arrest powers, and unarmed. No wonder more TSA employees have been arrested for stealing stuff than people they have stopped from breaching security.
The types of responses you get to traveling with firearms could make a whole YT channel on its own. Always fun to watch and always a good lesson/tips & tricks for those who want to travel with firearms
Props to the counter worker changing her mind. It can be so easy to dig our heals in when we are wrong to give the impression of authority. And so difficult to do an about face and admit we are wrong gracefully.
That is a good point.
ok but why do we gotta give props to people who can't do the simplest job right in the first place?
just because the bully only knocked you down that's enough to thank the bully?
I mean, your point is definitely right - but she seemed pretty damned begrudging about "changing her mind" lol
â@@ARockRaider Everyone is wrong at some point in their life. Are they willing to receive new information to adapt? I would prefer someone is wrong and adaptable than right most of the time and refuses to change.
@@h.d.h when i screw up at my job people don't line up to say "oh well, at least they figured it out in the end"
in fact at my job someone else can be 100% in the wrong and me and or the company i work for will still get sued.
it still goes against our CSA score.
back in 2014 a Werner truck traveling 50 (below the speed limit) was hit by a car who lost control and crossed the median striking the truck.
Werner LOST the lawsuit for nearly 90mil.
that's the world i live in and then i see people who are trying to enforce a rule they have never read and I'm supposed to give them props?
no, I'm not asking much, I'm just asking for other people to be held to the standard of a simple truck driver. (turns out that's a hell of a standard)
I had essentially the same experience while flying Delta to Las Vegas in 2021. Glock properly unloaded inside of a non-locked Glock pistol case, placed inside of a properly locked Pelican case. The ticket agent tried telling me the Glock case must be locked. Politely informed them that it was in a locked, hard-sided case. They didn't agree, called Delta supervisor and TSA officer. Both of them agreed with me.
I reached out to you over my epxerience with the zip ties of freedom years ago.
Funny enough, I had the same interaction using Ridgid rolling toolbox at the time with padlocks on the sides. I just turned the gun case into the entire travel case which seemed to break the minds of the ATL Delta reps.
I travel with my pistol(s) quite often. Although not required, I store the pistol inside a pistol case with the slide, barrel, and spring removed from the gun and stored in the same case. I store mags in the same case. I have never had TSA cut or open my lock, which is a standard lock (not a TSA lock). I was recently asked to show the employee my firearm at check in. I tried to explain I have never been asked that before and didnât want to pull a gun out in a crowded airport; she told me that is her airlines policy and she âdoes this all of the timeâ and she knows how to check in a firearm. She was very snippy and rude, but I smiled and said okay. She saw the disassembled gun in the case and asked me where the firearm was. I explained I always disassemble my firearms before checking them onto an airplane. I wonder if me field stripping my pistols makes it easier for TSA to see they are unloaded in the X-ray machine.
Clearly your field stripped gun was not black and scary enough looking for the employee to recognize as being a firearm... Which is its own type of scary, on multiple levels.
@@jayschafer1760 TSA is just theater. They couldnât stop an actual criminal if they tried and knew beforehand.
I wonder if their scanners are even smart enough to realize what it is? They have machines flagging points of interest for human review and machines are dumb.
They take the luggage with firearms directly to a special scanner behind a TSA door. I have to wait each time while they scan the luggage and approve the firearm. Iâve even had the TSA agent come out and say my firearm was packed well and I could leave the area. They always make me wait while the check is done.
in my experience tsa wants to open the case more if the chamber is closed. just locking a handgun slide back seems to help.
We have a confirmed case of someone that can't seem to grasp that a soft case inside a hard case means that it's in a hard case. This would have probably been a fun discussion to record all the way to its conclusion if you had the time.
Every airport that I've flown through has their own take on TSA regulations. And, every airline at every different airport also has their own spin. Years ago, while flying out of Phoenix Arizona, after checking my suitcase in with the firearm the clerk handed me back the suitcase and told me to walk it over to the TSA counter about 80 feet away. The TSA people were completely flummoxed by this.
That's because you're supposed to be escorted by either an airline employee or their designee.
@@Kawil12 Sounds like they designated him as their rep.
@@Kawil12 In every other airport I've flown out of, once the airline employee checked and accepted my suitcase, THEY maintained possession of it and conveyed it to the TSA.
@@BryanTorok The couple times I've flown out of SeaTac (about two and four years ago, I think), they've printed out their tags to put on my luggage handle, then give it back to me to wheel around a couple corners and into a short, blank hallway where there's a roller door with a metal table on the other side of it. TSA guy shows up, asks me to put the luggage on the table, open it up, point out the firearm case within, they check that they can't pry it open, swab it for something (the second time I flew the guy got a false positive on the swab and had to have another TSA guy come do it again), have me repack as necessary and seal it all back up, then they plop it on a baggage conveyor at the back of the room.
@@OOZ662 That is actually pretty civilized if that is their established method and they all do it that way.
Well at least she read the rules and understood it, and put two and two together. Unlike some people.
Closing the barn door after you let the horses escape doesn't count for much.
@@newshodgepodge6329 I understand the analogy you are trying to make but it's not the same situation. In your analogy something bad already happened. In this situation, nothing happened or escalated yet, she looked up the correct procedure, and followed it.
@@iWhacko She also cost him time he said he didn't have to spare. It's good that she read the rules though... eventually. Some can't even be bothered to do that. Now she will know for next time. That still didn't make it any less her job to know for this time.
@@iWhacko An unnecessary delay due to their own poor comprehension of the codes they're supposed to enforce is already a fail state. The fact that it's a less terrible fail state doesn't change that it's a fail state
@@newshodgepodge6329 So she let the horses escape, but she rounded them back up(after it was proven to her that she let the loose) before closing the gate - some time lost, but all in all everyone is doing just fine
you know as silly as this is, at least the employee tried to conform to written policy from their employer, so i will give them props for at least going by whats written, instead of making shit up even if she didn't completely understand it
I routinely travel with a firearm. And ran into this same issue twice last year with Delta. Once elevating to a manger in Atlanta.
I had a situation once checking in at Charlotte NC. I go with my bags to the counter and tell them I'm checking a firearm. The lady at check in says "I need to see the gun". I said really? don't I take it over to the TSA area? No, we need to see it here. I'm looking around, feeling like this is a set up or something. I unlock my hard sided case and show her the gun. She and her co-worker jump back a few feet when they see my hand gun. I'm thinking, you asked to see it. They obviously have no clue about guns. She says OK, we've seen it, you can close the case. I finish checking in and take my bag to the TSA area and got the all clear. It was so bizarre. I really think they just didn't have a clue what they were supposed to be doing. It felt really uncomfortable opening that case in an airport check in area.
Is the firearm part of everything? Yes⊠Is everything in the hard case? YesâŠ
âIâd like to introduce to you set theory. Okay so say there is a set of everything in the case, and then there is also a set of everything that is inside the soft sided pistol bag. Now the set of everything inside of the pistol bag is also part of the set that is inside of the case. Therefore the pistol is inside of a hard sided case. â
âSir, Iâm going to have to ask you to come with meâ the cop says thinking Iâm having an episode
@@bolivianPsyOp I used set theory to narrow the scope of the Canadian no-fly list.
In a letter to my Member of Parliament I explained that the set of terrorists includes people not on the set of people on the no fly list. And since terrorism is rare: false positives (non-terrorists on the no fly list) will dominate. Too many false positives actually REDUCES safety (at the time a TB positive person had recently made it across the boarder because the border guard thought the alert was merely "advisory").
@@bolivianPsyOp I hope the cop's supervisor was named Venn...
So essentially this was a Schrödinger firearm that was neither inside or outside the hard case
Had a very similar experience about 6 months ago. Since I was going on a short trip, I figured Iâd just use the case as my only checked bag by loading my clothes and toiletries in there as well. This really created quite the interrogative for the southwest reps.
Iâve made it a point to fly with a firearm anytime I can legally do so.
I was flying with two bolt action rifles, and packed the rifles in locked hardcases as checked baggage, and carried the bolts as carry on. (If someone steels the rifles, they have to get the rifles reset to headspace on new bolts, and decreases the chance of theft). the TSA folks had serious heartache with the bolts being in checked luggage.
Wait... Are you saying they thought that the bolts were included in the legal definition of a firearm, and therefore should be in the case with the lower receiver? I know that kind of thing happens a lot, but it really shouldn't. These people are supposed to enforce these laws, and they don't even know them.
The interesting thing is, what she read is the opposite case, a handgun inside a hard case inside soft luggage. Instead of a handgun in a soft bag inside of hard luggage.
Story time with Deev is always fun
Delta and American are the worst for flying with anything other than the "usual" stuff. I travel a lot with tools and these two airlines always have to make something routine very difficult! Southwest is the only airline that has given us virtually no troubles! Thanks Dev, I always learn something from you and I enjoy the learning! đ€
I love that you are always sharing these gems. It gives me more knowledge and ammo to use against the airlines as I fly with firearms.
Now it's in a hard case đ Literal LOL. I am entertained. I've only checked firearms a handful of times but (knock wood) I've had no issues so far. Only once they tried the "it's been 15 mins you're probably fine" thing. I was like nope Deviant said I can't leave haha. I didn't really say that but they did eventually get confirmation from TSA that I was good to go.
Iâm so stoked to hear you guys are doing a flipper class!!!!
This is the kind of thing you get when a bureaucracy prioritizes compliance over cooperation. You train people to only care about accomplishing the letter of the rules without ever considering what the intent of them is... and then they wonder why their people ignore the organizations actual goals?
Rarely fly with firearms anymore, but I used to print out both the TSA and individual airline rules. Back in the bad old days, the correction I used to have to make was getting them to put the "steal this bag" tag on the inside where it belongs.
I had a similar reaction from TSA in Arkansas and they called their supervisor which luckily knew it was fine.
i'm so glad it worked out
Deviant - Keep these vids coming! People simply don't know what they don't know. TSA and related folks are NOT experts and travelers are always in a hurry when at airports, so these can become tense situations fast.
What REALLY brasses me off is there was a time, shortly after 9/11, where the US looked into every other country known for GOOD airport security, Germany, Japan, freaking Israel.... They hired consultants, GOOD ones, to recommend policy and training, paid who knows how many hundreds of millions of dollars to do so, and SOMEHOW, still managed to come up with the TSA as it exists today...
The first commercial flight I got on after 9/11, I'd been in Retail Loss Prevention Management, and other areas of security including large venue, for about 7 full years, looked around and thought, "This is a F'n joke" (and that was BEFORE I was delayed over 72 hours due to multiple "secondary screening" which found, surprise, surprise, nothing)... Keep in mind, that was the "professional opinion" of a 26 year old acting LP manager at Parisian with some experience in large venue... FAR from being a "wizened elder" in the security industry.
And what's worse... Here I am 20 years later, and HOPEFULLY a little wiser, and it STILL hasn't gotten much better since then... to the point that I'm VERY thankful that I don't have to fly commercial very often.
We COULD have had a good program, but somewhere along the line things just got FUBAR'ed.
Used your last video as a bit of a guide, put my HK in a hard pelican within a hard pelican, with chamber flag, separated emptying magazine counter face up, hornady box clearly visible, and 2 locks on internal hard case and 2 locks on external hardcase. Southwest had me fill out the declaration card and tape it to the outside of the firearms case then said the were going to put it on the normal conveyor, made me nervous as at DIA they take you to another room for TSA to inspect and xray the case. Thankfully the difference from your experience was they said wait at the counter for 5 minutes, TSA will need the key, if its longer than 5 minutes let them know. And surprisingly TSA a couple minutes later called the Southwest agent and she got my key and a whopping 2 minutes later they were like âbags cleared, your good to go.â Using locks that hold the key unless relocked really does make TSA relock things btw, made a keyed alike set of 6 American locks that retain the key unless relocked. All 4 were still present upon arrival in Denver.
I'm a diverse person with a lot of jobs, and I've done that SO many times, and I love when the person has that look on their face... "Oooohhhh, I'm so stupid! It was there the whole time...."
Coming from a country where it is illegal to own a firearm under most circumstances I always watch these tips and stories about traveling with a firearm!
I knew where this was going as soon as I saw the soft bag in the hard bag....
Next time try having a locked hard case inside of a soft bag and see what they say....
Keep adding soft/hard layers ontop the pelican xD
This is the same NPC behaviour I had with my vitage film camera and several lenses.
I had a printout from TSA, where it tells them to NOT put it through Xray to prevent dampage and visually inspect it instead; and if needed to test it for residue..
Trying to explain how Xray machines can/will destroy the light sensative film.. since they go THROUGH everything.. How do you think they capture(d) photos in hospitals on your bones inside of your body.
2 minutes of arguing with the girl who refused to try anything other then her damn Xray machine or look up their own rules, and almost send 4 rolls of undeveloped film with photos I had taken through.
I asked for literally ANYONE else who is willing to test swab the damn camera and let me repack everything in my bag. and the guy was like.. yeah that's fine, I'll check for stuff and you're good.
Back in Europe, I showed my obviously old camera and filmcanisters and they looked at it for a second and said "you're good".
I had a very similar thing happen with a Southwest rep (who actually came down the counter from another desk to intervene without anyone asking her) when she saw my soft shotgun case inside a locked hard case. I couldn't convince her and she came into the conversation already combative and argumentative, so I just asked the original rep at the kiosk to get a supervisor and that resolved the issue in about 30 seconds
Yay! Another traveling story! Always so interesting to see the way you handle these kinds of interactions.
I am entertained. Especially because I wonder when/if people think my stories are crazy. I feel validated and I thank you.
I love that workaround. Quite the flip of a problem. Nicely done.
Love that the case has just one TSA latch. It says without words, "this is lock is pointless, but here, happy now?"
Delta and the zip ties of freedom. Sounds like a band name
The only issue I have had when flying with guns was on a multi-month trip. I flew home half-way through, but left the gun at the destination. I was required to check-in at the counter due to "flying with a firearm" even though I was not flying with a firearm.
ah yes, that's how the electronic itinerary works for many airlines ,yes
Those velcro moral patches are rad. Great for organization. Love it!
The sheer sticklery of this made my day, thank you
I am so proud of Flipper. I remember reading their Habr articles years ago.
TSA is what happened when you institutionalized failure to reason.
Good on them for rereading the rules and understanding that they were wrong. Still doesn't excuse that despite having standardized rules, many airlines interpret them very differently.
"Are you not entertained?" XD can someone drop that on airlines employees on camera, please?
Personally never had an issue, I just do the most routine thing: empty the mags and leave one in, ammo in boxes, two holes two locks on a small hard case with the pistol in. As long as I am confident and routine about handling the guns at the bag check when asked, never seen anyone get antsy. The biggest trouble I've had with airport tyranny is around my trauma shears; most of the time it's fine, but sometimes CBSA or TSA will pull them out and measure the anvil rather than the blade, and I have to explain that the length limitation is on the blade, and that they are specifically built to their own specifications.
Delta has been the most confused in my experience, United and American are completely routine about it and their people couldn't possibly care less about your handgun as long as they don't get yelled at.
Years ago I had a TSA agent open my pelican that had a Canon 100mm-400mm lens, 2 5D MKII camera bodies, some batteries, and a Canon 17mm-35mm lens in it. She opened both sides of the 400mm and asked "Is this a camera?" I said no, it's a lens and it attaches to those camera bodies "Sir I am going to have to call my supervisor, I can't verify this is what you say it is sir as I cannot readily see through to the other side". I put it on a body and had her look through the viewfinder. These are the last line of defense huh?
I don't think they're any line of defense except maybe mental
Hahaha! Common Sense...so rare that it's become a super power. Thank you for sharing!
This is why I prefer road trips. Flying in a tin can thirty thousand feet above the ground doesn't scare me, but I can't stand the invasion of privacy that comes with going through an airport. If you want to search my bags, you had better have a warrant. If you want to scan me or grope me, you had better be my doctor or my spouse.
i see her point tho. the policy says hard sided gun case plus an unlocked soft case which can be interpreted as hard case inside unlocked soft bag OR hard case with soft bag inside.
i can see why, for their safety, they don't want bags that look like shaving kits or similar common bags and prefer the kind of small case that's obviously a gun case. what they really don't want are lose guns inside luggage like you tried to compromise with. it can be argued that while that big black box can be used as a hard sided locking case for guns, that's not what it is now, it's your suitcase. {personally, i think this is a very uncharitable interpretation, but not entirely unreasonable for scared, litigious corporate entities who can't avoid firearms but wish they could.}
the reason they want smaller, dedicated gun cases is if they have to search the bag for any of the numerous other reasons bags are searched by airlines, they don't want lose guns flopping around. the shaving kit thing is something they can't avoid, but again they wish they could. people don't want to be surprised by finding a gun, specially people who are already a little afraid of guns. that's why i say they probably don't like nondescript bags like that.
i was a little surprised she read that stuff online and that was what de-escalated it tho.
I wish I could afford a flipper zero. I have a couple of clients who might be able to find me one while out of the country. I'm crossing my fingers.
Thank you for doing what you do, brother. đ€đœ
I like the TSA/ airline content as well. Keep it coming
I am so glad that Alaska seems to handle firearms relatively well. Not sure if it's just their route network invites more of them or what.
My best is from a relativeâŠhe was flying to Montana, out of Pennsylvania, to look for a retirement property. Obviously he wasnât exactly going to be in what you would call an urban areaâŠso he had his S&W 460 with him (massive, oversized revolver, basically twice the size of a normal revolver). Checked it, didnât have to open the case when he checked it, but 10-15 minutes later, he gets a call over the airport intercomâŠgets there, they ask him to open the case, he does, thereâs 5 or 6 airport employees/TSA ogling, all wide eyedâŠfinally one of them asks âis that thing real, and what is it?!?â âYeah, a S&W 460.â âWhyâŠdo you have that? What do you need it for?â (Not in an interrogation way, just genuine curiosity) then one of them looked at his ticket, and saw he was flying into Kalispell, Montana (relatively small city surrounded by basically nothing) and the ball dropped âohhhh heâs going out in the forest in Montana heâs worried about bears.â
it instantly became much safer once you removed the soft bag. thank you.
ohhhhh man, I would desperately love to go to that class. Sounds AWESOME.
had an issue with Hawaiian airlines out of San Diego, twice. Once was flying with multiple handguns in a locked hard sided case, in another locked hard sided caseâŠand they wanted me to put a TSA lock on the gun case. The other issue was with ammunition in âfactory containersâ.
I actually really enjoy the traveling with firearms content. More people need to be pushing against the bullshit... just generally really, in any way they can.
i plan to keep at it for a while, indeed!
@@DeviantOllam Just for SA, you've got a "very convincing" scammy boi in this thread. Blocking them all is untenable of course, but here's a gimme.
At least she admitted she was wrong. Thats more than you'd get from most airport employees
Always love the updates on flying with firearms!
The stupidity of the TSA worker reminds me of the stupidity of a nurse I dealt with several years ago when I had a hemorrhagic stroke. I am a critical care nurse that frequently transports patients with this and I actually diagnosed my own problem immediately, yet no one believed me until a CT scan proved I was correct; I had a subarachnoid hemorrhage. Anyway, after 5 days in the ICU, I was sent to a step-down unit and dealt with a very stupid nurse. She started off with an attitude, as did I, but she thought she knew what she was doing, which was clearly not the case, but she was very assertive. She said: "Oh, you had two kinds of bleeds." I replied no, it was just one bleed. She doubled down by saying, "You had both a subarachnoid hemorrhage and an intracranial bleed." I stared at her in disbelief for a few moments, before stating, "Subarachnoid, that is the space below the highly vascular lining around the brain." She acknowledged this. Then I continued, "Intracranial bleed, that means that it is inside the cranium or skull." She again acknowledged this. I then said, "The brain is INSIDE the cranium or skull." Without realizing the correlation, she again acknowledged this. I then had to point out that they are the same thing, only one term is a bit more specific.
Your issue reminded me of that stupid lack of understanding the obvious.
The TSA should pay you a salary for being an airport security âsecret shopperâ that finds gaps in their training, and helps educate their employees.
I mean, youâre already doing it, the least they could do is write you a check for your troubles.
About 10 years ago, I was flying out of Houston (I think it was with United). The ticket counter agent INSISTED I show her that both my handguns were empty right there. I got security involved, and they said it was up to the airline. So, I ended up showing in front of everyone that my guns were empty and cleared.
Good job, Dev. Hope the "fun TSA times" don't interfere with your enjoying your trips.
I had the exact same experience just a few months ago, except for me the rep was not satisfied until I pulled one of the padlocks off the pelican and put it around the handles of the small pistol case the gun was in. đ
I face palmed, I laughed, I wept for American education system. Then I thought 'hard case', just how hard has it got to be? and could I build a working padlock out of toffee? Though to be fair I have had similar reading & comprehension challenges about the interpretation of rules with government agencies here in the UK. It's just so rare to catch one on camera.
At least as hard as a TSA officer during a pat-down.
@@Lemon_Inspector Aye there's the rub
Thanks for a Great Video, and All Your Hard Work ! I am afraid to travel with my 9mm shield, period. At home, I have complete Peace of Mind, with my s&w within easy reach 100% of the time in my gun glo holster from amazon. I am wheelchair bound so no time to run for the gun. I keep a gun glo holster stuck to my nightstand, stuck under my desk and stuck on the inside panel of my wheel chair, for instant deployment, the holster has heavy duty velco and adhesive, even in my car door. I do not intend to be a victim of the current spike in violent crime, EVER. As I said, traveling without my firearm makes me feel Way Too Vulnerable.
Love the content. Out of curiosity what are the cases you have your work stuff in within the pelican case?
You know how those Dr. Bronnerâs soap containers have tons of writing all over them? I feel like you should do something like that to your firearms case. You could have a section for TSA regarding cutting locks and your contact information, or policies of the most common airlines, you fly, or whatever. Given the amount of silliness you get to experience with airline firearm travel, there seems to be a handful of repeating events. Might as well spell them out on your case and see what happens.
ROFLMAO!!! ""You can't make this stuff up!" seems to be a very common refrain that afflicts all of us who are in the security world. My team and I say this at least once a day.
Oh that's freaking hilarious. I had a comparable moment -- post RSAC checking into SFO with .38 snubby, sent downstairs for the screening. Showed revolver, yes, unloaded, and they wiped down the case, and then put the swab in their Ion Mobility Spectrometer - Ding! They: "Sir, this tested positive for explosives" me:"You mean like gunpowder on my pistol" They (sheepishly): "Oh, you can go now". (Yes, modern firearms use smokeless powder, but it was a "not the droids you're looking for" moment, and worked)
I wish I could afford to go to the classes but unfortunately as a disabled Air Force Veteran I've not been able to work for the last 11 years and my only income is my $300ish disability compensation from the VA. So I doubt I'll ever be able to go to these classes, but I am soaking up all the information you share.
I think you should make russian nesting dolls with the cases. 'Sir, it needs to be in a hard case', 'It's in five hard cases', 'I'm sorry, but the rules say "a" hard case, not more than one'
That's utterly amazing and horrifying đ
I'm glad the lady let you past, but she interpreted the policy she read incorrectly. It's an exception that allows hard case with a handgun to be in a soft case, which is the opposite of what you did. It's fortunate she accidentally considered policy, and not just common sense, to be on your side.
I had a similar experience. I have a mesh organizer panel on the lid of my pelican. I was told it wasn't ok because it wasn't in a separate pistol case. We had some back and forth, and eventually I did the same as you - laid it on top of everything, outside the zipper pocket. :facepalm:
I had a similar experience when storing a tiny laptop in the magazine pocket of the seat in front of me for take off. Apparently it lying in a loose plastic bag on the floor underneath was preferable because then it was in a bag, which was the rule.
Anyway, how often do you unpack your firearms while traveling?
Flipper day sounds awesome!
I'm definetly entertained.
My proximity to nogo zones has always dictated means other than flying with firearms.
I do not want to be one of those diverted to places unknown then land in a situation different, than the expectation.
My standard is destination based.
Can you speak to diversion to places with other legal terms?
Highlight case would be the mother who unintentionally got diverted to NYC, then had issue upon departure.
I know it is many years old, I never saw any discourse for a conclusion. My last impression was negative outcomes.
Dairy Queen drive-through. âDo you want your ice cream in a bag?â Dad, âNo, a cup would be better.â
The fact that this woman needed that explicitly spelled out for her speaks volumes.
Yes, this was highly entertaining đđđ
Awwww man I would love to see the flipper zero class. Do they have an online streaming?
Just for fun, get a large, soft duffle bag to contain your Pelican case :-)
The only time I've flown with a gun was from Newark, NJ. Weirdly, given the local laws, I had no issues.
Gotta love good ol' security theater.
I just watched your fitted sheet video. Wow.