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The problem with under-display cameras
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- čas přidán 14. 11. 2021
- More and more phone manufacturers are turning to under-display cameras as a way to eliminate bezels or notches. But these cameras, still in their infancy, come with their own drawbacks. Mainly… they’re not very good. But as the technology improves, do under-display cameras have what it takes to become the new standard? We spoke with Steven Bathiche, the head of Microsoft’s Applied Sciences group, to get a better understanding of the technology, its shortcomings, and whether under-display cameras have a place in the future of phone technology… or are better off in other industries entirely.
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Are under-display cameras worth the compromise?
no
yes
No
no
NO.I’d much rather have a notch than a poor quality camera.
Oneplus 7 Pro user here: i'm still missing the pop up😭
I've still got mine, I've had no issues at all with it had it over 2 years and a bit now since release. My problems are with the battery and display. Currently got a new battery coming... But my screen burn in is the problem atm😭 I dunno if it's just a case of removing the front screen or is there more to it!
They should recreate it with updated specs. The circuit boards are smaller, the battery density has increased, and selfie camera sensors have shrunk 👍
As first gen as the Z Fold 3 is, it works well. Definitely not as distracting as a hole or worse, a notch. The reason it works is because you have an actual selfie cam in the front and 3 more in the back. When unfolded, it works well for conference calls. I'm all for the under display.
To me well designed bezels make the phone look more premium. The issue with trying to thin out the bezels is that most manufacturers have uneven sized bezels and makes the phone look cheap. Even though the pixel 5 was midrange I thought the front design looked extremely premium because if the consistent sized bezel
This is something I always prefer on the iPhone. Sure they have a bigger notch but at least they get the bezels right and make them the exact same thickness all around while other manufacturers lik Xiaomi aren't even able to have the rounded corners of the screen match the chassis so the bezel gets slightly thicker on the rounded corners. It just looks horrible.
FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT i’ve been thinking this for years. I love how uniform some of the pixel bezels have been
@@corbinduncan1272 ... and then they killed it with the Pixel 6 (Pro) and made the bezel design one of the worst in the last couple years 🙃
@@Raja995mh33 yeaaa made me sad. really wanted companies to get rid of those waterfall bezels on the side but everything else is fantastic from google this year. here’s hoping for next year.
@@corbinduncan1272 Sadly the entire Android flagship market (the manufacturers) think that edge displays are "premium" or whatever.
And I personally sadly don't have high hopes on Google. With literally every Pixel Google has shown that they have no consistency whatsoever. I wouldn't even be surprised if the Pixel 7 just goes back to QSD and stuff like this. It's Google. It's kinda even very likely that something like this happens
The whole eye-contact thing, I couldn't agree more.
reminds me of google’s starline
Imo they should correct it in software and keep the cameras in notch until the tech is developed enough, they can correct the eye contact through software maybe.
@@divypatel1002 Why do you say “maybe”? FaceTime on iPhone already has software-based eye contact correction, for example.
@@RosenblumStudios yeah, I've read that somewhere, but wasn't sure since I don't use any apple products, and didn't wanted some triggered fans from both sides to attack me..lol
"I would like the best front camera possible..." from the guy doing a video call with a potato.
I came here for This.
Pop up camera did seem like the best way to go both in terms of image quality and security.
It's not really dust-proof, be careful when you bring it on vacation at beach
but its not that great at durability and water-proofing
@@thechoku9765 I've used my OnePlus 7 pro with a pop up for many years now, I've taken it into swimming pools, and use the camera at least once a day and I have had zero issues related to the pop up. The fears of a motorized part like this was vastly overblown and gave these an unfair bad wrap even though there's really nothing to worry about and it's clearly the best solution we have available at the moment to have a notchless phone.
@@KangJangkriknah , im still on my oneplus 7 pro and it is fine , even going in the beach or forest.
As someone who uses the front camera maybe twice a year and finds a fingerprint sensor more convenient, there are only upsides for me as long as the display quality doesn't suffer.
But since pandemic, every meeting is now online, having good front camera this day is a must.
@@cafelampung4717 I would never use my phone for a meeting. That's what Laptops are for
We’re well past the point of diminishing returns with bezel reduction. These are basically gimmicks. The trade offs aren’t worth it for now
I hate bezelless phones.
@@remix4098 go back to 2013 where you belong
@@cat-le1hfbut moving parts are very vulnerable
In 5 years we won't be having this conversation
i like the pop up camera the most for privacy reasons
Pop-up cameras ftw
Yeah, why did they stop making those?
What did bezels ever do to you all?
Look at Sony's Xperia phones, they've got tiny bezels that look awesome and can fit a small but decent front camera, along good quality speakers
Plus having bezels improves the handling and avoids accidental touch.
Finally Sony got tiny bezels... Remember when they had the biggest bezels out there for quite a while
Not to mention dual front facing speakers, notification LED, light sensor and proximity sensors that are missing in most flagships nowadays.
Sony is just on different league that other brands can't even compete with Sony. They proved that it's possible to fit a good front camera, stereo speakers, headphone jack, expandable storage without compromise on the size of the phone. Always loved Sony smartphones
Props to the manager for actually having a real, practical purpose for this tech. The manufacturer fetish for tiny bezels has gotten ridiculous.
actually its the consumers and tech reviewers fetish for tiny bezels
@@SpektrikMusic I can't decide whether I agree or disagree. I just know that it's used heavily for marketing, to sell us something we don't need.
It's crazy that people are only discovering this to be an issue now. I knew that you can't slap a camera under the display because the pixels would get in the way. As much as people hate bezels, their "selfie" cameras are better off inside a thicker bezel or a notch.
Nailed it at the end there. A little top bezel never hurt anyone
If they ever 'do' master the under the screen camera, hopefully they will place it where it 'should' be, center screen, so you are always looking at the camera regardless of the orientation.
it will also make the face look more natural. for now, using the front camera in landscape makes my face looks weird because the camera is offset.
That's hardly possible. Don't forget that cameras need a lot of depth. They're not like 1mm thin. They often take up almost the whole depth of the phone itself. And there you literally run into the battery which is always placed centered.
@@nickrobinson7096 No you actually can't. You're really limited. What Apple is doing with their L-shaped ones is REALLY expensive and not easy to do. That's why all manufacturers besides the Pro iPhones always use normal shapes batteries. And it's also not like that you have a lot of space in a phone so you can do what you want.
A battery with a hole inside is pretty much impossible dude...
@@Raja995mh33 donut-shaped batteries
@@Raja995mh33 probably right, but it's a nice idea 🤣
I use the Z Fold 3 and for me I never use the inner display camera so the tech is perfect for my situation as I want a seamless display but I understand that I'm in the minority regarding that. Hopefully the next few generations of under display cams will get better significantly.
I don't care about the selfie camera either... But that's the world we live in, there are those who take tons of selfies for social media and those who couldn't care less....
I'm glad Apple chose the notch and a good selfie camera quality instead of the bad quality of a under-display camera
I’ll take a notch over bad quality under display
I know you meant to say holepunch...
@@MrPipsqueak-oq9kw i love face id
@@MrPipsqueak-oq9kw there’s nothing wrong with the notch
I prefer the udc, I have zfold3, I don't do selfie so the camera is fine for me, video calls are good too... don't need high rez for that for me.
For locking purposes, I love smart lock feat, pair watch/headphones and I'm good as long as it's not inactive for 4hrs... or I lock it myself... 🤷.
Udc is a subjective thing if don't like don't buy that product, that's why we as consumers have options... I don't have problems with pinhole and UDC but that's me.
Quite impressive, as immature as the tech is at the moment.
I love my pop-up camera so much. So sad it seemed to be just a fad in phone making because i'm struggling to find a new one with that same solution here in Aus.
First, there was no need to go less bezels than the Galaxy S8 Series. Second, why not just remove the selfie camera? There are user who would take a 3.5mm headphone jack over a front facing camera anytime.
You're forgetting video calls that are not possible on a phone without a front facing camera
I rather have a headphone jack over the front facing since the camera on the back has better quality. I use the headphone jack every day and I don't remember the last time I used the front facing camera.
I love the way that manufacturers are avidly working on this photo trade off when, if we are being honest, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the bezels and designs on phones even going back to the Samsung S8. If anything I think they look a bit nicer, and year on year I find myself skipping CZcams videos and accidentally selecting things on my display more than ever just because the screen is infinitely more likely to come into contact with my palm.
These manufacturers are also slowly making themselves redundant, since phones are gradually becoming more and more generic. Once we just basically have slabs of glass people's desire to try new products from different manufacturers may wane.
I don't really like the notch on the iPhone but part of me wonders if Apple have intentionally left it as a prominent feature on the front of their phones. You can't deny that it makes it very obvious when someone is using an iPhone, and therefore sets them apart among a sea of phones you may see on a train or in a club
I agree
Can I get a phone with no front facing camera?
💯
Nokia 3310
Why tho
Asus Zenfone 8 Flip
Quite funny.. when you questioned the quality of the example selfie camera .. and then cut to the significantly worse quality webcam of the Microsoft guy.
For technological progress I say YES, for implementation I say NO
A thin bezel with a hi res selfie cam, other sensors & stereo speakers in symmetrical fashion is what we need.. Oh wait It already happened 3 years ago :p
Note 9 for the win!
Xperia 1 III and 5 III for the win
So the xperia 1
people care too much about the cameras on mobile devices, especially the selfie cameras i.e the front facing camera. the quality shown in this video is more than enough for those of us who aren't wasting our days worrying about how we look.
Keep the thin bezels, with a front-facing camera and even dual speakers.
So Sony Xperia?
Xperia 1 is the answser
Remember the "Iris Scanner" on the S, Note 8 9 Series of Samsung? That feature was removed on the 10 series, since Samsung need to minimize the screen bezels more and more... I hope one day they can put those sensors inside the display. But if that happen, Apple may have already get the FaceID under the display.
I personally loved the Note 8 and 9 fingerprint scanner compared to under screen scanner.
I feel like these companies are changing things just to change it. Not every feature has to be discarded
I hope so too since apple is work on AR glass overtaking smartphone tech
I don't really mind whether a notch or an under-display cam, our phones' screen is wide enough and people are more used to using multiple devices workflow.
Why not just take a rollable display and a mechanic under the glass rolls the screen no more than 3 millimeters and exposes a temporary notch during the time that the front camera is working? Then it rolls up when not in use.
bezels are also important to hold the display and also important for a little protection around the edges.
Not to mention a place to rest your fingers or thumbs while you're looking at the screen with the phone in hand.
What about putting an array of front facing cameras under the screen ?
If it works for the rear cameras, why not the front. In aggregate you could potentially get enough light for a high quality image.. potentially better than a single selfie camera.
It'd require more computation but we'll have 3nm chips soon enough is my guess.
I'm optimistic for the future, it's good that they're experimenting and pushing things forward. I expect photogrammetry to be a big thing going forward.. maybe multiple cameras or perhaps LiDAR or some other tech might help ?
They should just improve the pop up camera hardware.
@@nickrobinson7096 I could care less about what Apple does
@@nickrobinson7096 So is the lightening connector, but hey
@@nickrobinson7096 Yeah... that's kinda stupid.
@@nickrobinson7096 How's the Kool-Aid taste?
Oh and don't forget the privacy concerns about invisible cameras...
OnePlus 7 Pro user here still hoping/waiting for another great popup camera on new and upcoming smartphones
I thought the fail rate in production was too high and made the pop-up camera uneconmical due to yield. I doubt we will see that ever again though ASUS did one last year that bombed in sales and was a less fragile flip rather than pop-up.
Literally everyone is saying that their pop up Vera's are working good
Popup camera is already perfect.. Why did companies ditch the idea?
I really have no idea. That was truly a groundbreaking idea!!
I had a OnePlus 7 Pro. I had it for like a year and a half... I lost it during a drunken night in the Dominican Republic. Now I have a S21 Ultra. It's been months and I still notice the pin hole camera. If I had to use an iPhone 13 or something I don't think I could handle the ridiculous notch and bezzels.
If they're gonna make it under display then they might as well put it in the center of the phone for the best eye line.
why dont they turn the pixels ontop of the camera off when the user is using front facing camera? or when they take a picture using front face?.
I don't like the compromise of an under-screen camera. Just makes you're image quality look like it's smeared in vaseline, and needs the help of software to help correct the image, which I hate, I don't want my images or video to be edited like that. Plus, with a pop up camera, you can know nobody has hacked into your camera without your knowledge, because it would have to pop up to even be able to see anything. So better privacy there.
Other than that, just gonna copy a response I made here:
Mi9T user here, I'm approaching 2 years of use with my phone, and honestly I've had more issues with the software than I have with the hardware. I don't take many selfies, but I do use my camera pretty regularly for video meetings and so far so good! People who act like moving parts will instantly self destruct, need to learn some history, because in the past most consumer electronics had moving parts and were totally fine lol
I seriously wonder if most consumers have said anything about bezels. Even as much of a techy as I am, I never thought bezels were that terrible until brands talked about them more every year
It's like they're trying to sell you a solution to a problem that never existed
@@pixels_per_inch that part!!!
I like slimmer bezels on my phone, it gives me more screen. And since I always use a case, the case's frame is the "real" bezel for me.
give me an iphone option without a selfie camera and i'll buy it to have a seamless screen. i don't take selfies and don't use facetime
I love the fact that I cant unless I focus on the front facing camera on my galaxy Z fold 3 that’s awesome I like it They need to start doing this to phones newer phones
2005: There’s a camera in my phone
2025: There’s a phone in my camera
Celeste tshirt! Loved that damn game!
The inner camera on my z fold 3 has been great for me. I can't see it unless I'm actually looking for it and the pictures I've taken have been good enough that I'd forgotten it was a hidden camera
Under display cameras will be a privacy nightmare, quality is not even a problem remotely close to it
A camera can spy on you even if do you see it. That's why iOS 15 and Android 12 notify you if the camera or the mic are active.
Take under display cameras any day over apples notch. Then again not a big selfie kind guy
Unfortunately, physics and the laws of optics can’t be entirely overcome. Either 1) you put the camera in the bezel, off the screen; however, now you’re talking about reduction of aperture and less light being collected, or you have to create larger bezels to get the camera to fit, or 2) heavily relying on computational photography, AI, and software to overcome the loss of light and degradation of image quality due to pixel obfuscation. And, unfortunately, we’re not quite there yet with option 2, but we are getting closer. I could be wrong, but I see Samsung, and probably most other Android phone makers, opting for the under the display cameras, and Apple likely going the camera in the bezel route. Neither would be wrong, necessarily. But it’ll be interesting to see which method ultimately wins out in the court of public opinion, development of technology, and quality. Both have unique challenges and hurdles to overcome.
Satisfied with my pop up cam in my poco f2 pro 😁
Completely agree with his last statement... I still don't understand this need for little bezels.
How about removing front facing camera like what do I need it for
RIGHT??!!! i use my selfie cam maybe once a year, if even that often
Tik Toker and any media content would be mad
Here's the solution: Use more than one under display camera to recover complementary information.
How can you totally ignore the privacy concerns of not knowing whether a camera is on or not, yh software can help with indicators but that's only if that feature is implemented.
Exactly, I DONT want this under display camera tech to get better. Imagine if it was implemented in hotel room TV's or any similar places? Scary!
Why not use some mini-prism system to guide the light around the screen and have the hole in the black bezel?
I barely use my selfie camera at all and would much rather have a seamless full screen experience when watching CZcams on my phone every day.
The problem is... everyone is not like you. and companies have to think about everyone and try to satisfy the majority
2 cameras under display would sort it eh? Composite the 2.
so apple and their notch are a good idea after all then😂
I never use the selfie cam, I want want to do a selfie I just use the main, it´s not hard to aim and has way better quality, with all the wide angle cameras it´s even easier, my favorite solution would be no dedicated front facing camera at all
Ahhh, new tech for secret continuous surveillance. Thumbs up for that.
Yeah agreed, I don't mind a small bezel like Galaxy S9+ that Ph I used was an amazing-looking phone, or pop-up cameras are an amazing option we've seen never any major issues with that. Though I hate notch but I love Apple's face id experience so not a big deal in the iPhone scenario.
raise your hand for no selfie camera completely!!! just put tiny screen on the back!!!
Would be nice if the pixels of that area got turned off when the app of the camera was active.
How about this. Two or more under screen cameras using computational photography to reassemble the image. You’re gaining back some of that light and because of the different positions, the screen door doesn’t align exactly between each image, so you’re not cutting out any detail even if the total light captured is still lower. Some phones have already used periscopic optic arrays. Maybe it’s possible to set the lens back a bit from the display, deeper into the phone and reduce the loss in detail due to the screen door.
This will enable the possibility to activate the camera without user’s awareness.
The ZTE Axon’s front-facing camera is impressive IMO.
I've been waiting for this to become reality for so long.
Am I the only person who will now be paranoid about every screen having an under-display camera and won't be able to relax unless its powered off and disconnected like my usual webcam??
The camera can be on even if you do see it. Android 12 and iOS 15 added mic and camera notifications if they're on.
A couple things
phone makers made a problem nobody had, and then are trying to fix that problem.
i think we were fine with even bezel, forehead with camera, and even chin (symmetrical)
i dont think there was an issue with very small bezel bottom with slightly thicker top with the camera NOT obstructing the screen
then they introduced notches, and surprise nobody liked something obstructing the screen, and here we are
what they could do, is make models of phone with NO selfie for those who barely ever use them, like me haha
or go back to the designs of phone as oneplus 7 pro, zenfone flip camrea phones. or...
with the size that phones are, just leave a little room at the top for the camera to be at the top NOT on the screen, solved
only the top with have slightly larger bezel with the rest of the phone bezeless, no bathtub, holes, cut outs, tear, or pill shapes required
Why do we need selfie cameras? Just stick a screen on the back and use the main shooter. Better in every way (except for cost most likely).
Why not just install a circular, transparent display over the lens area and turn off the pixels when taking a picture?
Can we have no notch and good selfie camera?
Aaah.... how about we put it a BEZEL???
It would’ve been nice if you asked his opinion on the new FaceTime feature.
I don't care about selfie quality.
I just need a decent camera quality.
So that's great for me.
This needs to be the breakout feature that's PERFECTED for the upcoming Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra.
Notch and punchhole are my biggest enemies. The reason why i don't trade my 3 year old phone that comes with pop up camera.
Put a round small glass on the small top besel, and have inside the phone multiple (3-4) mirrors that reflect the light directly to a camer inside the phone.
You're welcome
Why not turn off the pixels over the camera when the front facing camera is on?
They do. That’s how it works. But pixels are not just a software thing. There is actual physical hardware there and that real hardware is blocking the light.
@@alliejr The only way I think they can get 100% light in is by moving pixels above the sensor to make a way for light. Ik it's almost impossible but I can't think of a better way
it's still a pretty new tech. it will be awesome and standard in just a few years
I think having a motorized selfie camera was the best invention to modern smartphones but they got rid of it for no reason lol
Water resistants, being awkward, not being able to spy you, and people tend to not use the selfie cam that often when it's a pop up cam.
Still on my mate 20 pro it has a huge notch but worth it for a decent camera and real 3D face unlock
For me, the selfie camera is the most unnecessary thing on my phone.
And a punchhole would be a reason for me to not buy a phone.
So give me a nice bezel or a under-display camera
Yes it is, never used front camera , except for face unlock!, Just turn the phone around and click the volume button, it is hard I know ....
You were using the cameras under very poor lighting conditions, if you notice the lens was under fully black pixels I think the image wasn't as bad as you say.
Having said that, manufacturers can simply turn the pixels on top of the lens off when using the front camera, could even use a cool animation. This way is even better because the screen will probably be all smudged with fingerprints and gives people a better chance to clean it. It's also an indicator that the camera is being used and it solves the eye contact issue.
the image was horrible in all conditions.
Amazing topic and great job!
If the display is better, then just increase the sensor size underneath to compensate for the per area loss
So basically this created an issue that didn't exist. Hopefully, this won't get shoved down our throats until it matures enough to be worth it.
I've been trying to find new bluetooth headphones for like 1/2 year now,and i've watched countless bluetooth headphones,most of these reviews point me to 3 headphones,The Sony xm3(Highs are muddy),the Bose 700 and QC 35 ii(Both compressed and a bit unbalanced)
So i decided to joined the r/headphones discord server,i asked a couple of people and they all led me to one bt headphone,the AKG N700nc M2,they seem a lot more balanced than the others and nearly no one has realised in the YT community it,it seems like a hidden gem waiting to tower over the xm3's(or maybe i'm overreacting lol)
I'm getting these at christmas and it would be the world to me if you made a review about it...
PS:Loving the videos and keep up the good work!!!
Headphones is mostly subjective and you can use eq to change the sound to your preference
Why not put multiple cameras behind the screen and compensate for the light from multiple angles? Computationally I would think there by might have more data to process.
Why not just turn off the screen above the camera while in use?
They could probably place the camera on the very edge of the device's display and lower the resolution of the display in a semicircle on the edge itself to reduce the display quality reduction and improve the clarity of the photos!
Oh,by the way,the video call quality with this Microsoft technician is worse than anything out there.
When was it recorded in the 90's
yeah always such a bummer when tech videos have terrible video call quality. like, why would they even allow that in their videos?
This was really informative, cheers.
ss note 9 is best. area above the display is for proximity sensor, face detection, and led notification. the only weakness of this phone is display and battery issue
I will keep using my pop up camera phone until you guys figure this out
Bad implementations like the Galaxy Fold are not worth it. But ZTE’s is great and the slight loss of quality is acceptable trade off for those of us who only need the front camera for Zoom calls and the occasional selfie.
Steven's insight was great!
I prefer the under display, I hate bezels, that's why Apple is never an option for me
I'd only get under display if it's practically indistinguishable from that year's top tier selfie cameras, and literally unnoticeable to the human eye. Up until then, I'll gladly stick to my OnePlus 7 Pro pop-up camera.
@@Alexus00712 yeah idk why they stopped pop-up cameras ,I loved that approach
Companies trying to solve something that isn't even a problem in the first place.