Modern VS Retro Road Bike | Cycling Weekly
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- čas přidán 20. 02. 2018
- We've come to Peak District to find out how much better are modern bikes compared to its predecessors from 80's. Subscribe to Cycling Weekly here: czcams.com/users/CyclingW...
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This is probably the most honest assessment of a retro vs modern bike out there. A good retro bike from back in the day can definitely hold it's own against any modern bike. I own both, ride both but enjoy the retro ride the most.
I'm in the same boat. I bought a new aluminum/carbon fork bike. Very stiff and powering up hills has never been faster for me. But, my two steel bikes are just more comfortable. Both still bikes have been a tad more modernized, with my 85 Peugeot PGN10 receiving a whole new groupset just this year. Bike weight just around 20.5lbs with pedals. And this is now my main ride. The feel of steel is just too comfortable to give up.
thanks for that comment.. I was wondering whether to invest a grand in a new aluminium/carbon bike. Sounds like my existing bikes will be fine and are way more comfortable.
my carbon bike is just too fragile to ride on city streets.... and thats where i live
ppl are interested inyour old pg10 set so dont bin it ;) @@timbazzinett2693
100% agreement with that statement. I have both modern and old steel stuff and much much prefer the ride of a quality old steel frame.
Go for a coffee with a new bike, and worry constantly about it being stolen.
Go for a coffee with a great "vintage" bike, and worry you will never get the people around you to stop talking about the good old days.
James Kidd actually you should worry about the vintage bike getting stolen XD
great vintage bikes but sum partt you cannot get any more and are just bikes used as standing statues
TIL, go for coffee come back with a free bike
Lock them all up, vintage is a sexy item too, I've lost over 15 vintage bikes over the last 10 years.
And it always seems to happen after I've put endless hours polishing shining and tuning them 100%
I always lock my stuff up now through the wheels and pedal.
I get the occasional talker of vintage times.
It's great when you have something to say about sunrises away from traffic.
Don't wear deodorant on you're ride and you got that problem solved. Don't wipe after using the bathroom and your bike won't have that problem either after you sit on it.
I have the same impression going between old and new road bikes. The biggest improvements to me are the brakes, by far, followed by shifting. I actually prefer the ride of the lugged steel frames to modern carbon frames, and I love the idea that those old bikes were designed to last. It is so satisfying to be able to pull a bike that hasn’t been ridden for years from a garage, put air in the tires, and go. I’m happy to have this video affirm my experience.
In the 1970's I raced bikes with Campy side pull brakes that were far better than the Mavic cantilever(?) brakes on this bike. It would be interesting to compare the old Campy side pulls to modern rim brakes, which I suspect would be better than the old ones I used. I recently rode a bike with a set of direct mount dual pivot brakes (Bontrager Speed Stop) that were astonishingly good.
I'll put shifters first...
Shimano refused to hide the cables for a long time, because there is lower friction from less extreme bends = better shifting
Dude! I’m an old codger from across the pond, and I was delighted by your video. Thanks so much!
At age 59, I don’t worry about my speed too much anymore. I’m just grateful I can still ride.
So I gave my high tech, compact frame, carbon bike away to some young stud whose body could take the constant pounding, and I bought a steel lotus.
It was not very different from the first road bike I got back in the 1970’s, and I fell in love again.
Thanks for a great video and a great attitude. Good luck in all your races. 😊
Love my early 80s steel lotus! Best bike I've ever owned!
76 here, and riding road bikes from the 70s. Younger people pass me often. Sometimes I yell "If I were 66 instead of 76, you'd never do that!"
You say at the end something like "I wonder how many of these modern bikes we will see in the road years from now." The answer from someone in the manufacturing side is, not many.
Here's the big differance. The old frame will last forever if you keep it clean and treat it with certain preventative measures from rust. Rust and a crash are the only dangers faced by the old frame.
The new one however has a electrodynamic reaction that happens between aluminium and carbon that as if yet science has not eliminated. A very tiny electrical charge exists between alloy and carbon that has a corrosive effect amplified by the resins used to bond them. More so in some frames than others. It is very important to carefully choose your bonding agents based on the exact make up of the alloy and carbon being used. It can be reduced by applying layers of certain materials between alloy and carbon contact. Any alloy frame parts contacting carbon will experience a separation of the two materials at some point. They have a corrosion that builds up and eventually breaks the bond.
Think about how many old alloy lug and carbon tube frames you still see on the road not many. If you have seen one of the early Trek frames with alloy lugs and carbon tube now days you see a bubbling in the carbon near the alloy and a white colored corrosion bubbling up from under the paint on the alloy lug beside the carbon tube. This is why some of those older alloy lug and carbon tube frames (some manufactures did better choosing bonding agents) separate and some have not yet. This is why carbon bars with alloy supports inside at the clamping area of the stem bubble up and get white powdery gunk coming out. This is why metal pedal threads start spinning or come out of carbon crank arms. This is why that alloy seat rail body separated from that carbon seat post you have had for 15 years. The new frames will fail at any point where it may have aluminum in it like dropouts, bottom bracket, head tube, bottle cage bosses and derailed mounts. The only modern frames that will be on the road in 30 years are those that reduced the amount of alloy in the frame as much as possible, wrapped the joining spots with an appropriate barrier between the two, chose the bonding agents wisely and had an owner who kept the bike clean and out of bad weather and lives inland as salt water exposure (including sweat) advances the corrosion.
wow thank you very much for this explanation! Very useful information.
This is why i ride retro bikes. 40 plus years they've already proven their worth.
Wow. Awesome detail. Thanks!
well shit
Also, you can install modern aluminium transmission. It will reduce the weight and make you faster.
Vintage shifters like that were common on basic road bikes right through the 90's
These are still very common in my city (Zürich), where almost every student has a vintage bike.
@@hobbybaschtler7896 I own one, which is owned by grand father and still works pretty good lol the bike is older than me.
I actually own this bike and I knew George Longstaff pretty well, he built me a bespoke cycle speedway frame in the winter of 1982 that 8 months later I rode in the World Individual final at Thurrock finishing 8th. He was one on the greatest ever frame builders, I have read the book 'Its all about the bike' by Robert Penn and it makes me smile when I note that Brian Rourke frames were chosen (I love them too) but for me George was the master of all these local frame builders in and around North Staffordshire. A great article by Ollie Bridgewood but for me with over 100 similar steel bikes (plus two alloy and a carbon thing too) steel is for me. #retro
Thanks for this. I will think of you when on my next ride.
This the same guy that made the racing trikes?
@@ItsDaJax Yes. And tandem trikes.
@Paul Whitcomb I think it is. Bev, George's partner, carried the business on for good few years after his death in 2002 but I've heard she's sold up to Rourke's
Nice to hear you rounding up talking about obsolescence. Also very few of us had two bikes in the 80s, one bike had to be everything.
There is a lot to be said for the old steel frames, and well made bearings and group sets. It's generally not hard to keep a 40year old bike going. Love my brazed steel frame, Shimano equipped roadie.
I sold my newer expensive road bike after i picked up a free vintage Peugot....just fell in love with it! Its got a soul and such a beautiful ride.
Steel is real.
For those that have been riding for 40+ years, they know whats good. I love good quality Italian or Reynolds steel. For those who can afford it Ti seems to be what most are eventually migrating to.
Steel is forever and weight is not the most important thing in the bike
Mr Aldo Gios (one of the best road bikes mechanician in the world) has stated a few years ago, as follows: "The road bike is two angles and two wheels, everything else is folklore".
facebook.com/188729691131/posts/10158081091606132/
@@leopoldoparada76 One of the guys at my club had a Gios. Beautiful.
🤘🏿
It's not welded, it is built with lugs then brazed together!
On very fine frames, brazed with silver.
@@buster0004 Better to braze with silver as it brazes at lower temperature so the fine steel does not lose its heat treatment. Another alternative it's using lugs and to braze directly large fillets with bronze, silicon or aluminium. That worked very well on the Reynolds 531 steel.
Brazing was an art form.
yep
The shifters are friction shifters, not frictionless, as stated in the video. However, they are non indexed :)
I hate how you have to manually hold frictionless shifters in gear.
Yup, friction shifters, not frictionless...
Without friction (frictionless) u cant change to bigger gear, it will be back to smaller gear after u shift
They actualy Simplex Retrofriction shifters (not campagnolo as stated).
Retrofriction referes to that they have a spring built in that acts as a clutch + counter the spring in the derailures. No one sane would use the std campagnolo or shimano friction shifters that offered uneven shifting and could 'autoshift'.
Mavic and Gipieme sold the Simplex Retrofriction under their own name. Huret and Suntour had similar mechanismes though they where bulker and less smooth. Campagnolo tried to mimick the function in the Doppler shifters that came pout approx the same time as 6-7 speed Synco. Doppler shifters are very rare.
Biggest improvement in shifters is actually chain and cogs. I Have moderen 10 speed casette, chain and chinrings with 1987 camapgnolo deraillures and the Simplex retrofriction shifters. Dont really miss my Ergo's on that bike for shifting (only for breaking ergonomics)
@@slimjimmypage You dont with these Simplex retrofriction shifters they will stay in gear and not autoshift fue to a build in clutch.
The best thing about friction shifting is reliability. They will work until the cable breaks or the derailleur is mangled or fallen off. They are compatible with any # of gears. Although I wouldn’t recommend more than 10. I run 6-10 spd with old Dura Ace 9 spd barends that are so old the indexing wore out. I forgot how well friction worked. The new profiled cogs, chains and chainrings are what improves shifting.
Friction will teach you how to shift too. Something many people with indexing have never learned. I rode Campy NR back in the day. If you blew your shift, you’d land up in the back of the pack and everybody cursed you!
This has to be one of the best and most honest comparisons of new vs old I've ever seen. Very well done!
.. have to chime in here. Truth is that these quill stems did have adjustment. You can loosen the top bolt and place the bars up or down where ever it suits you. You aren't limited to 5 and 10 mm increments, and this adjustment can be done without removing anything.
For reach adjustment, you have to swap stems with either new or old tech.
Still enjoyed the episode very much .. Thanks!
My gripe about today's lack of stem adjustment, also.
The threadless stem setup is stronger, and better for mountain bike riding. As you've noted, the quill stem provides for very easy up/down adjustment. Some people, myself included, think the quill stem looks elegant compared to the industrial look of the threadless setup. The main reason almost all bikes have gone to threadless is because it's cheaper to manufacture bikes with a threadless stem setup. I've got threadless on my mountain bike and quill on both my road bikes.
They are WAY MORE adjustable than modern stems which save 200g. You can raise or lower them WITHOUT having to look for stem ships and frankly many modern stems just cannot raise AT ALL because some idiot cut the steerer too short!
Should try a modern built steel frame with modern components, smaller weight penalty over carbon with the modern tubing from Reynolds/Columbus. Comfort advantages as well as stiff where needed and will last a lifetime. Perfect for most amateur riders that are not sponsored and don't need to eke out every watt advantage they can get.
Longstaff was top of the game.
With a dialed-in tuning & freshly packed bearings my 50 yr old 'moto' rolls like the day it came off the line.
(It should be noted the old French bikes can be a pain in the ....neck to work on.)
Ive an 80s reynolds framed peugeot with exage groupset that im thinking about updating to claris.
Its nowhere near as comfortable to right as my old 70s uo8 peugeot was tho. That thing was so supple.
@@sugarnads If you're going to do all that work, make it 105. You'll be glad you did.
Or vintage frame, second hand and modern componets.
Thank you very much men...this really changed my mind inown a steel vintage bike more than 20years old and my dad just gave me a full carbon fiber road bike...its a great honor amd privilege as a cyclist to own the old like vintage bike and the new a modern bike.....the experience on its own is beyond words..
Am Grateful to God for blessijg me with a sport like cycling am forever filled with gratitude to his awesomeness.....i own both.....
It's cool watching your joy at discovering the comfort of steel. Welcome to the heavy side (and by the way, I have an 8.5kg steel Mondonico -- steel does not have to be heavy.) It's clear you aren't an expert on the subject of old bikes, and it's quite charming that you are sharing your real first impressions.
I agree. It was wonderful to see the true enjoyment he was getting. You could almost see how he saw himself as Eddy Merckx running the Paris Roubaix. That is exactly how these bikes should be treated, with joy and a sense of history.
nah, just ride the bloody bike! @@James-ye7rp
Joe Bond i know Antonio Mondonico in person: his frames are so Great!
Steel is real!! Carbon is just strong plastic. You cannot see its quality on the outside! If you think youre getting a ‘quality’ carbon frame from Asia, guess again!
I used to build and actually INSPECT carbon satellite components. Now I wrench in a shop!! Most people wont believe THE TRUTH!
Joe, I have an old 'Vega mixte with Tange Pro tubing, the frame set weighs just 3 1/2 pds. not bad for a
steel bike or anything else for that matter.
I laughed at the comment about "these old cables sticking out the top, hang your washing off" :)
Back then we also attached a slotted cleat to the bottom of our cycling shoes with nails. It locked into the back plate of the pedal cage. With the strap pulled tight you were not pulling out! If you did not release the strap when stopping you would fall over. Some things never change.
Exactly, you wouldn't feel as locked in without the cleat, which Ollie may not have had on his shoes for this ride. If you forgot to release one side, you would fall over when you stopped, which I have done. In a crash, the leather straps would usually stretch enough that you would come out (did that too). One plus was that aligning the cleats was much easier than with modern cleats: you simply rode new shoes without cleats for a while. The rear edge of the pedal platform would make a line on the sole, and you would nail on the cleat 1-2mm towards the toe from the line, to keep your toes from getting mashed into the toe clips. Clips were available in different sizes, and you could add washers between the toe clip and the pedal for fine tuning. Downside was that the straps could squash the ball of my foot if cinched too tightly (ouch!), something that the modern setup eliminates - I much prefer it!
yes he needed matching shoes for those pedals which are probably difficult to find these days. Easier to simply transfer the pedals from the new bike to the old one. I'm sure the threading will match.
Rode across the US with that set-up in 1982
Anqetil cleats with Binda Extra straps were what you wanted then.
I ride both, and also have a video on CZcams building a 1980's Colnago Master Plu with a 11 speed Campagnolo groupset. The Colnago is a mix and the best ride I have had yet. I couldn't resist the Delta brakes though. Steel really is real. The bike is here if you ever need to test ride it, it really is the best of two worlds. Thanks for the video all the best Andy
BikeIt UK I have a vintage park pre with sram group set and love the ride
Delta brakes are sexy
Search Colnago Master Piu Restoration on here, or visit my page to see the full build from start to finished. All the best Andy
He put a modern groupset on it.
yes sure, all shown on the Video
The quill stem is actually easier to adjust than a modern threadless. You just loosen the bolt and slide it up or down.
You turned about 65% more northern when you were on that old bike! Blurreh 'ilurrius! Lovely summary at the end, too. Glad you brought up that point about sustainability; I wouldn't say it should be at the forefront of bicycle design but it should be an ever present thought.
James, You nailed it ! Any one of my vintage bikes creates such a gathering of admirers that there would be too many witnesses to the theft. Not everyday does a fan get to see a showroom perfect 74 Raleigh International or a 72 Fuji Finest. Many times a veteran will express deep regret to long ago selling their classics. Then they climb aboard their flat black gizmo bikes and blend into obscurity .Too many "Modern Cyclists "
haven't learned to rely on componentry that's simple and elegant and doesn't require batteries. Aero levers , clipless pedals are really the only 2 Tech advancements I find really useful. Maybe if the author of this video had the proper shoes and cleats the toe clips wouldn't have been so challenging.
Time to get the best of both worlds and build a retro roadie.
Those bikes make me drool. At the gym late one afternoon, hitched to the indoor bike rack, was a vintage Bianchi frame in celeste with a modern group and wheels. I had to step back from it so I wouldn't have to apologize.
Exactly this! Look up Neo retro velo on Facebook. Amazing projects on there.
I am doing 2 neo retro bikes right now. 😀😀😀
Me too, an 80s Peugeot and a Condor Italia.
Well done! As someone who still rides a retro bike, I thoroughly enjoyed watching you ride one. My mid-80’s Mondia was my main road bike until last August when I got a Giant TCR 1 Advanced Disk. You are spot on about the comfort factor of many older bikes.
It's the first I've watched you and you did a very good job, nothing smug here. I've never ridden a modern road bike and your hands on comparison helped me understand this considerable change. My first 10 speed was in '73 and it had the new cantilever brakes with dual levers on the down tube very similar to what you rode here, a significant advancement over the typical Raleigh and Columbia 3-speeds most of us grew up with. Your final comment struck home - back in the day all we knew was a mindset of being out there on the road meant for cars able to peddle away the day. No competition, and no complaints ;).
every time when you lads use old bikes, I love your reactions to the brakes. the brakes are the worst aspects of old bikes and we crashed A LOT because of crappy brakes competing for the need for speed.
Remember when Tullio Campagnolo commented, brakes? it' a racing bike?
Vintage bike with modern components
With dry weather (even if baltic...) I took the opportunity to go out on my Colnago Super Piu, with Record 9-speed, Vento G3s on it. All up weight is around 8.2Kg, stiff, comfy. In spite of now being 23 years old, it still blows me away every time I ride it due to its stiffness and comfort. It just goes and is a pleasure to ride. I've got more modern bikes, even more modern Colnago, and none stack up to it.
I rode all those roads back in the 1980's on a Bob Jackson I still own today. My bike has a suntour rear mech like the one in the film, they were the best back in the day. The comfort of an old steel bike is excellent, I ride the Bob Jackson today and have kept as it was all those years ago, the engineeering is such that everything just lasts with maintenance.
Also have a Bob Jackson with SunTour rear mech, riding again after years being in storage in Harare, Zimbabwe
I would love to see a modern steel bike vs a modern carbon bike. I think that would be a fun video to see. I know both bikes would be great and different but I would love to see how much different the numbers would be. It's not going to change my mind as to what I am going to ride, but interested in seeing the math.
The power of steel! we all have to confess there's a charming thing on those vintage bikes. I noticed the tyres were actually 700x26
Those cantilever brakes were used for the wider tyres, if the frame/fork allowed for extra clearance giving more space for muddy road issues.
Just found an early 70's peugeot px-10 in a basement. I think I'm in love
Of all the different videos comparing old vs new, this is the most comprehensive, thought out and unbiased one out there. Love this, thanks guys for making this. I ride new, I ride old, both are superb. And I think you guys hit the bullseye with this video. The beauty of vintage machines working decades after they were built, the advancement and improvements of new and how they change our sport, it all works together. Thank you for this video.
I love old bikes.....except for the brakes.
Oh, and the shifters and derailleurs .
I almost forgot the weight of those things on the climbs.
I will miss that metal flake paint job, though.
Take up golf or croquet
they work much better with NEW JAGWIRE BRAKE BLOCKS only 75c/ea.
Campagnolo...wonderful even 36yrs old
Great video, appreciate the closing comments, never forgetting why we love cycling. Basics :)
I have now been riding a traditional steel lugged frame for roughly 15 years. It's what I rode in the late 1960's. It does however have Campy Record components from 15 years ago on it as well. I have, without thinking about it on a 95 degree Fahrenheit day sat up, removed my helmet to squeeze out the moisture from the helmet while traveling at 36 mph descending around a corner. Scared the crap out of myself when I realized what I was doing. It was my first ride out on this bike. It was the first bike I had ridden in many years that gave me that confidence without thinking about it. The bike feels like an extension of me. I have a leather Brooks saddle and bar tape which belongs on this bike. It is what a bicycle should be "According to my opinion(ATMO)", but I'm "Classically Aged" myself. Thank you Richard Sachs for my amazing frame.
its IMO or IMHO
bishplis ATMO is a Richard Sachs thing...
Such a brilliant and non-biased assessment, I found it most entertaining! Being 66 years old and still riding the old steel bikes, I can fully appreciate the benefits of modern bikes, however, all I need at this stage of my life are my classics. Thank you for this, love it!
Dollar for dollar, the 70s-90s bikes are the best o_o
They will certainly last longer.
Great perspective. Thanks for the honest review. I recently selected a Fondreist X Steel vintage bike vs. a modern bike in carbon or titanium. I just love the classic lines and feel.
Awesome! I just acquired my grandpa's old bike from the 70s, it's a Fuji Royale that my uncle still had in his garage and wanted to get rid of. It's in the shop getting tuned up now. Excited to get to ride it soon!
I have a Bianchi 74 Rekord and rode it for about 12 years. It is all Campy, an original 10 speed (2 x 5). This bike weighs about 22 lbs (10 kg). It has tubular tires. This bike won the worlds in 1974. At the time, it was top of the line. I paid about $150 for it. It came in a box from Italy. Today I ride a KHS Flite Team bike that is dura ace and weighs 15 lbs (6.8 kg). It cost about $5,200. There are several noticeable differences, the biggest is acceleration deceleration on undulating hills. The Rekord is punishing and the KHS is astonishing (the KHS wheels weigh about 1100 grams). It used to be that tubular were smoother than clinchers but for these two bikes, I can't tell the difference. (Continental tubs vs. Vittoria clinchers and latex). The brakes are also noticeably different. I ride in almost completely dry conditions. The Rekord has Universal Extra side pull brakes, advanced for their time but the pads do not grip nearly as well as the dura ace brake pads. Also, the brakes are much more strenuous, so much so that I find myself using the drops for better caliper pulling power.
As far as I could see you never tightened the straps on the pedals. You have to tighten them in order to get a good firm position on the pedal. (You will still be able to jerk them out in a hurry if you need to.)
The ambulance driver can just cut them off for you.
Don't listen to Erlix. Straps are the single reason our insurance premiums are so high.
Great video Ollie !
I would like to see a comparison with a modern titanium bike with the same components vs an all carbon aero state of the art bike.
I have a Moots ti bike with Dura Ace and Zipp 303 NSW wheels. I don’t find it any slower or heavier than the Colnago C59 I had previously. Ii anything it feels a bit stiffer and racier handling .
nice bike
Great video but at age 91 can only comment on the 1950 /60 era bikes as a member of the Dunedin club edinburgh .Most vivid memory of riding in the 12 hour events covering only 212 miles and you felt for it for the next day,Last bike was a Paris Galibier and that was a real oddity in these days but i loved it.Must be really difficult nowadays with amount of vehicles on the road but was lucky to enjoy the pleasure our generation had in the 1950/60s Cycling
I'm from the only 1 speed to 3 speed & 12 speed era.
I had bike similar to the bike you rode but it was made in 1972. Once you workout the gears it's a awesome bike.
I managed to beat a Gentleman on such a bike & I'm very proud of that because he always rode his bike as a communer.
Thank you I so enjoyed this much.
I got a retro Japanese road bike for only 60 bucks.
Edit: Will upgrade them to modern budget wheels, brakes and drivetrain. The frame is indestructible.
Appreciate the review .... love my classic 1976 Raleigh .... but also have a modern .... it is like having a classic car ....
Great video reminds me of a 1980's Peugeot I bought 25 years ago, even had horizontal brake levers on the tops (suicide levers ?) Kept it for 3 months could not get used to the gears. I took up cycling again at the age of 60, have a Giant and a Canyon now, how I wished I'd kept that old Peugeot !!!!!
I have an 80's steel Finish Helkama. Pretty much the same configuration but with shimano gears and breaks. It's amazing
I like the way Oliver here respects the old bike yet likes the new too 👌 a bike is 2 wheels, how it's moves is nearly the same every time.
Compare modern bike 9kg without disc brake vs retro 9kg Colnago.
I've got a late 70s Univega Vivasport that I recently fixed up. Mine even has a headlight, with one of those generators that rubs on the tire to power it! That bike has been a lot of fun, and it's pretty efficient for me. The down tube shifters are very easy to use once you get used to them.
The only thing I dont like about downtube shifters is having to remove your hand from the bar. But they are bulletproof and shift great
Doesn't the tire sidewall say 700x26? not 23c???
Theres 2 ml diff, who cares
I scrolled down to see who else caught it
Plenty of people make it around Eroica on those bikes. But it’s easy to get easy gearing, there is nothing really new. And it’s easy to get a sub 10 kg steel bike
Longstaff was one of the very best bike builders
And those vintage bikes could take wide tyres that later bikes could not, until they made a recent come back
I have a vintage 1990s ti frame with first generation Ergo shifting, Mavic ceramic rims, and one of those San Marco Rolls saddles. It's still working great.
George Longstaff was a superb custom bike designer and maker. He made some of the best bikes of the era. That bike would not have been a cheap bike even for the day. It was a specialist product, very special
*steps on classic bike* and northern Ollie pipes up
Careful now. The Longstaff is from Newcastle-under-Lyme, not Stoke. For some bizarre reason, people from Newcastle get incredibly offended if they're accused of being Stokies, who they consider to be ruffians. I should know - I live a few hundred yards from the border between the two.
John Jenkins Funny you mention that, even in races theirs still a rivalry between Lancashire and Yorkshire, deep-seated but the odd comment can be said which I've heard.
Border...you mean there is a checkpoint there ? LOL
So, literally within a stone's throw, then.
I just recently got a late 1980s Trek 1500 Aluminum road bike and it is fun riding Retro and reminds me why I got into cycling in the first place. I enjoy it so much that I'm going to use it as my daily commute 25 miles.
I used to ride a 753 Raleigh with Campagnolo super record equipment on 9oz tubeless tyres on 36 spoke wheels, small flange hubs as 12 speed road bike weighed 20lb (8.9kg). Never worried about the brakes as everyone was on rim brakes. The time trial bike built to ultra close clearances with 531SL tubing with single 6-speed weighed 18lb (8.0kg) on 7oz tubeless tyres with 28 spoke wheels with large flange hubs. 40 years ago those were expensive bikes to assemble, wished I still had the road bike now!
So would a modern lightweight steel frame bike be the answer I thinks so .
For everyday? Absolutely.
Shouldn't weigh anywhere near 12-13kgs. I have vintage 531 tubing steel bikes that are approx 10kgs
DavidUKesb my vintage reynolds weigh 22lb
💪my Columbus sl plus slx frameset with campagnolo and fulcrum components weighs only 7.6kg
My cheapo steel gravel bike weight 13kg. Sigh....
I have a 25" 531-framed road bike. It weighs about 11.5kg BUT I freely admit I am a cheapskate and fit the cheapest stuff that actually functions. It could easily shed a kilo or more if I cared to splash out on decent wheels and finishing kit, so sub-10kg is not out of sight.
7.6kg seems barely credible though, unless that is an 18" frame with 24" wheels and everything drilled within an inch of its life!
yes if 531.... if not then.....
I have a 1985 Peugeot P8L Touring bike that I pulled out of my garage after 28 years. Washed it, put air in the ORIGINAL 1985 tyres, changed just the brake pads because they were too far gone and went for a ride! The frame is still shiny, the mudguards and chrome rims are as shiny as mirrors and everything work perfectly!
Although a little more modern than the steel example you have here, I had (up until about 18 months ago) a Holdsworth Criterium. It too had downtube shifters that were nice clicky indexed Shimano examples (well it was 1995!) come to think of it, the whole groupset was Shimano, with Biopace (oval) 53/42 chainrings, 7 speed 11-22 cassette and particularly good Shimano caliper brakes. Wheels were Wolber Gentleman GT lightweight aluminium hoops with Shimano replaceable ball bearing hubs.
Ok the brake cables hung out in the breeze a bit and I did change the Chainrings and bottom bracket for more modern compact cranks with an 11-32 cassette, because the original groupset was hard on the knees on hillclimbs. But the whole thing only weighed 11.1kg, probably due to the classic Reynolds 531 lightweight steel thinwall tube frame.
Thanks for the logical comparison with modern road machines.
Can someone subtitle what the lad is saying please? As soon as he stepped onto the old bike i didnt understand a word! :p
Mark Munro you can use captions on the settings
He was speaking Eng Glitch.
Vintage, not retro
this is retro not the 70's
this was closer to the 90's than the 80's
30 years old above vintage.
@@bishplis7226 70s is a retro period.
@@bishplis7226 The bike is 1981. Closer to 70s than 80s. And its design is 70s. Definitely not 90s.
I started riding roadbikes 1985 when I was 13. It was a Peugeot Ventoux with a Shimano 105 Groupset (2x5 Speed U14 gearing 52/42T Chainrings 19-24T 5Speed - Cassette). It has a 501 Reynolds tubeset. The biggest problem for me was when I rode downhill over 50km/h. It was very frightening because the tubeset started to wobble. Even if I pressed my knie onto the headtube it didn't stop... The breaks and the shifting were okay... But I don't think that old steel framed bikes are comfortable at all.
Thanks for the great video and perspective. It's refreshing to hear an appreciation for "vintage" road bikes, especially when compared to "modern" bikes.
I've built three bikes all with steel frames and mostly modern components. Two of the frames were vintage (1978 Motobecane and 1986 Shogun) and one "retro" (2014 SOMA San Marcos). I've ridden aluminum and carbon frame road bikes but haven't ... and likely won't ... ever owned one. The feel of a well-designed, superbly crafted, lugged steel frame just can't be beat, in my humble opinion. If you invest in modern components and find a frame builder who can properly spread the rear dropouts to fit a modern hub and cassette, you can have the best of both worlds. I built up the SOMA in classic rando fashion (650B) , the Shogun is more of a classic 700C road bike, and the Motobecane is a Dutch style "city" bike (internal gear hub in the back, generator hub in the front, upright stem and handlebars). To be honest, I've had more fun designing, building, and riding these bikes than I had I bought a new bike "off the rack."
Actually, I think I would be bored riding a modern bike :-)
I've been telling my friends the same things about quality steel lugged frame road bicycles
Vintage rocks. I love those heavy gear ratios and all retro steel organic feel !
Great video. You nicely summed up the pros and cons of vintage bikes at the end. Thanks!
Enjoyed your video and thanks for the wrap up at the end. I bought my 82 Centurion Super Le Manns new in 1982 and it’s just a wonderful built to last bike. I visited a bike shop recently and inquired about a modern bike and discovered just how vastly improved the brakes are!! I also have SunTour DeRailers but the shift levers are at the handlebar ends and far more available than attached to the down bar. I may someday purchase a modern bike but will never stop riding my Centurion!
Wouldn't say he completely knows what he's talking about. ''Frictionless gears'' they are friction shifters. ''nice welds'' they are lugs. ''23c tyres'' they were 26c. handlebar position is way off, saddle angle is off and at 7:54, its obvious that there is far too much slack in the gear shifter because it should never have to come so far back in order to change into the 1st gear. don't mean to be iffy, but its all wrong wrong wrong
" never rode a bike with down tube shifters " oh my but makes me feel old old old
I was shocked at that too lol.
I’m using my 30 year old steelie with original spec equipment as a winter ride these days. Sure it’s not very fast especially on climbs. And it’s not just the weight, the flexy frame, bottom bracket, chainstays and wheels sop up an amazing amount of power that never reaches the back wheel. The 6 speed freewheel has huge gear ratio jumps meaning I’m usually in some inapproriate gear for the conditions. And the riding position is decidedly non-aero.
On the upside it’s supremely comfortable on even the roughest poorly maintained winter roads and I don’t have to obsess about cleaning all the mud and dirt out of every nook and cranny after every wet messy ride. Plus pure speed becomes kind of an afterthought, maybe like driving a nice classic old car, you’re just out enjoying the ride and not so concerned about winning every stoplight drag race.
I have a Dawes Galaxy that I purchased new in 1987 from FW Evans Waterloo and still ride today, and I love it. It has all the original components, apart from tyres, bar tape and brake hoods. I find the frame very flexible and comfortable, exactly as described in the vid. The only other bike I have is a Brompton, purely for the convenience of unrestricted train travel
Remember when that was their only shop. Have a Record Ace from new same year (lusted after a Revell Elite- remember Freewheel?))- still a beautiful machine to ride all these years later. Only other bike that gives me joy is Planet X pro Carbon on Zipps with bar-end Dura-Ace.
Your use of the words "retro" and "vintage" makes me feel old, since I used to ride those bikes. 😉
You may feel younger if you still rode those bikes,, or any bike for that matter.
This video made my day, excellent presentation.
Great video. I recently bought a late 1980s road bike to tinker on, and was quite surprised. Once you change the pedals and seat, put the biggest possible tyres on, have dual pivot brakes and indexed downtube gearing you really have a very usable bike. I managed to fit 30mm tyres. With the steel frame it is extremely comfortable but you can still have an aggressive position. Since I am new to this niche the livelyness is quite a surprising sensation. That and the downtube shifters are the novelty of this bike for me. Cheers
It made me chuckle using the term "vintage" it's all I have ever used, my last bike was a Raleigh M-Trax 6000R with down tube shifters. The bike I use now is Claud Butler Dalesman with Reynolds 631 tubing. 😊
Million an millions invested in research and development and the best they came up with is "let's hide the cables". Lol.
Just like a good drag queen and downhill rider. Gotta know how to tuck it.
I've twice been asked what my downtube shifters are for ,,,lol
I have a vintage Gazelle (Champion Mondial AA frame) to which I have done some mods and each time I pick it up I feel amazed at how lively that bike feels. Put some Kool-stops (salmon) in the brakes, a cassette at the rear with a 28, new pedals - for clipless pedals, and 25 or 28 tires and you have a very nice bike, for saddle a Brooks swallow (I really don't like the majority of vintage Italian saddles, will try a Fizik Arione some of this days). Steel frames are great.
With downtube shifters you spend more time in the same gear it makes you more judicious on your choice of gears and pedal harder.
Suntour went bankrupcy for doing products that costed more to make than what they asked for them.
There’s all sorts of possibilities to combine the best designs through the ages on steel bikes with those Simplex ‘retrofriction’ shifters. On my 1975 Gitane I use those very shifters with an Ultegra 11 speed short cage rear derailleur on a 6 speed cassette I customised to a 12-32. Gran Bois sell hubs with 120 and 126mm rear freehubs. I even recently went one by, just using a 42 on the front in the spirit of experimentation. My brakes are first generation black Dura Ace which do stop well using modern pads. They are hooked up to Tektro levers (cables under the tape) on an ergo shaped bar. Every component is chosen for its function first. Economics 2nd. I tried the toeclips with the proper slotted cleats and liked them, but they’re not so practical as modern pedals. Octalink 105 cranks have lasted me ten years. 9.8 kilos for a 62cm frame.
Never used shifters on the downtube......?
When I get tired during a ride, I occasionally reach for the shifters down there. A plus was that they were "self-adjusting": you simply moved the lever to eliminate gear noise. Fine with 5- or 6-speed cogsets, but obviously that would not work with 11-speed setups, which are so much better!!!
Actually, they work far better with 10 or 11 speed than the original 6 or 7 as the cogs are so closely spaced. Merest nudge = ka'CHIK, next gear up or down. Zero fumbling. Front shifting with narrow chains does require tweaking of the front derailleur width, easily done with my old Shimano 600 7 speed by removing a pin and tightening up a screw at the rear and bending the nose in with pliers. Full range shifting requires more 'throw' for the rear shift lever, which feels a bit odd, no stopping at 90° to the downtube with this arrangement. Rather the opposite of your experience, I try to shove the brake levers to shift until I adapt to the downtube shifters again. :) Later, when I return to the modern bike, same thing, reach down and 'oh yeah! other bike'
@Starclimber - Thanks, I never imagined that downtube levers would work with 11 spd. Alas, drilling holes in my (carbon) downtube to mount them would probably be unwise.. Perhaps a clamp-on arrangement could be fabricated.
Agreed, that would be dodgy at best. In my case, I spread an old steel Miele's rear triangle to accept 130 mm wheels, and tinkered my way to satisfactory results. Never could find the original model name of this bike, so I dubbed it 'The Pisashita', given its Italian name and Japanese componentry and classic mediocrity ;)
Acts like its wierd...😒
Ollie sounded like Ratboy on the vintage bike.
slimjimihendrix haha
This episode sponsored by Yorkshire Tourism.
Hearing your words at the end "biking should be fun" really touched my heart and ill be going out to buy a classic bike today
Nice video. My first road bike was an 80s Schwinn World Sport, 8 or 9 years ago. Missed riding, so today I picked up a 1980 Fuji Royale. I love these old bikes.
"When men were men." You got a like because of this :)
Lol this is precisely what i lold at
@@tardigrada6000 me too. Priceless line.
Globalism (the elites) caused endocrine disrupting chemicals to lower men's testosterone levels in half in 2 generations. Men in the 60's and 70's had more muscle mass and smaller cog spacing in the back. Standing and dancing on climbs was the norm. You are suppose to sweat and suffer somewhat. That is the point. That releases the dopamine.
Ok Ollie white stem come on sort it out or at least get a white seat post to match
leigh mason white stem saved on weight as opposed to other colors😂
Duck tape!
I love my peugeot '78 but the frame does flex a lot on speeds over 40kph. Not sure if that happens too on modern bikes?
I ride a beautiful 83' raleigh with 531c tubing but built up with more modern components. fulcrum 5 wheels, campag 8 speed groupset (with brifters) 105 hollowtech crankset( for the modern modern gearing) . Rides sweet, super comfy and good geometry. It makes me smile that something nearly twice my age can still be repurposed without any compromise. Mine is 10kg for a 62cm frame.
Modernising the gearing (you don't need 12 speed) and putting some good brake pads and tyres on will get a good steel frame perfectly useable for many riders. It's bombproof, budget, unique, sustainable, and fulfilling.
Suntour still makes components Ollie!
Sun tour Bar end shifters with the fine ratchets none index, are fantastic bits of kit..
They just came back to life about 3Y ago! They were dead from ~1990-2016... Then the founder restarted them ...
On a wet gravelly descent powerful brakes are more likely to get you into trouble than out of it. Anticipation and gentle braking is the order of the day then.
Wrong and more like the opposite. Modern hydraulic disc brakes have better modulation (you call it being gentle) and you can control the braking much better than with any older braking system. They're more powerful and brake performance doesn't deteriorate with weather conditions. Old rim brakes with worse performance are way easier to lock up and get you into trouble. You get that spongy feeling and braking isn't linear. Eventually you cross that threshold and lock up the wheel instead of being able to modulate it. Anticipation is something you always have in mind no matter what braking system so not sure what that has to do with this?
Derek Biggerstaff bollocks
Well argued Thelma; are you a philosopher by any chance?
I think you've been reading too many CW bike reviews, Karl.
Derek Biggerstaff doesn't need arguing, I'm not going to waste my time typing what deep down you already know.
i love my eighties Miele
i also have a limited edition Specialized Tarmac with SRAM Red and loads of upgrades and a Trek Speed Concept
Trek is fastest, Tarmac rules for road races but the Miele is smooth as butter and looks as cool as the day it was made. I bought it mint from a school mom for $50 CDN and the thing was factory fresh, with the nubs still on the tires.
All bikes are great in their own special way, kinda like people!
I bought a hybrid bike some years ago, and it came with v-brakes. I changed to a drop bar and the brake-shifters I got wouldn't directly work with v-brakes. I love cantilever brakes, just as strong as the v-brake to me. I use 28-622 tires now, so that was my only option.
14:14 throw away designed bikes... 6000 euros or plus throw away bikes...
Crazy world...
I don't know. I've been riding my cyclocrosser for 11 years, and it's still in very good shape.