Why Future Gohan SHOULD Have Been STRONGER!
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- čas přidán 13. 09. 2024
- I know alot about DBZ and to be honest with you I never understood why Future Gohan(My second Favorite Gohan to Teen Gohan) was so much weaker than his present counter part especially after 13 YEARS OF TRAINING. He definetley had the emotional factor to beat the androids, and His multiple fights with the Androids with the zenkai boost should have definetley made him stronger than the androids. I'm not saying he should be stronger than his present time counterpart but he should at least have the strength of second form cell after 13 YEARS of training.
I DO NOT OWN DRAGONBALL. DragonBall is Owned by TOEI ANIMATION, Ltd. and Licensed by FUNimation Productions, Ltd.. All Rights Reserved. DragonBall, DragonBall Z, DragonBall GT and all logos, character names and distinctive likenesses there of are trademarks of TOEI ANIMATION, Ltd.
I DO NOT OWN DRAGONBALL. DragonBall is Owned by TOEI ANIMATION, Ltd. and Licensed by FUNimation Productions, Ltd.. All Rights Reserved. DragonBall, DragonBall Z, DragonBall GT and all logos, character names and distinctive likenesses there of are trademarks of TOEI ANIMATION, Ltd.
this was the FIRST VIDEO I ever SAW from you BRO
IT WAS THE FIRST DRAGON BALL VIDEO I DID!
Qaaman's Land can you do videos other than DB
like Pokemon or ZELDA or some other let's play..
JaxBlade look at that old intro
@@QaamansLand Qaaman,,, You sound SEXY in this video LOL.....
Whoa, that's really interesting I'm surprised it was the first one
Future gohan is literally what everyone wanted gohan to be like.
yea WHY AKIRA WHY
@@meftahicham its not Akiras fault. Its all Toyotaro fault
if he was stronger 😭
This is actually what the original gohan. Trunks timeline is the original timeline.
@@artpolski2875 are you dumb? Gohan is badass in the manga
The argument that Gohan had no one strong to train with so he became weak is pretty stupid. When Goku and Gohan trained together in the hyperbolic time chamber, you could say that Gohan was relatively compared to SSJ Goku, but in the end after a single year Goku had achieved a level of SSJ far superior to Vegeta, who had SSJ trunks to train with for 2 years. In the end, it doesn't matter on whom you train with, just your talent. Gohan was the most talented, being able to destroy Super Buu without any training for 7 years with just the Old Kai's powerup. In that one year, Gohan achieved SSJ2
In the end, it's just Toriyama isn't the sharpest story writer. His plots are littered with holes, but DBZ is still entertaining to watch.
Vegeta flat out didnt train with Trunks. I thought that was heavily implied the way Trunks talked about his training. They both did their own thing. The Goku and Gohan got a lot stronger because they were fighting each other everyday at a strength that helped them both push each other.
Vegeta has always been about doing it solo.
This guy
Gohan had talent as a fighter, he just doesn't have the spirit of a fighter. It's the reason why independently he doesn't grow stronger.
Toriyama has admitted countless times he forgets his own canon within the DBZ universe XD He has staff that help him keep his story accurate and such. To the best of their ability.
And training has never been the way to reach Super Saiyan... well, originally. Goku, Gohan, Vegata and Future Trunks all got it through intense emotional struggle. Goku's emotions got the best of him and he unleashed the power of he Super Saiyan upon Frieza (greatest moment in DBZ history... no matter what. It was just so intense.) Vegata actually fought his own limitations within himself, fighting the idea that his "royal blood" meant he should be all powerful. Trunks' lost his only friend, mentor, and Saiyan brethren to the androids... he never knew Vegeta, Goku, Piccolo, Krillin, etc... Future Gohan was like a brother to him, his only family other then Bulma. So when Gohan died, he finally awoken what he was truly capable of. Gohan unleashed Super Saiyan through a mix of hardcore training and being spurred on to use pain and suffering to awaken the power of the Super Saiyan within him. But in that moment, the first time Gohan did briefly do it, Goku sensed something more then any Saiyan could be trained to accomplish. Well so far in how the DBZ canon worked. Goku knew from the day he attacked Raditz, there was more potential in Gohan then any other Saiyan. That is why Gohan's transformation into SSJ2 is meant to be so massive and extraordinary. The timeskip into Buu saga and such did kill all that intensity really. They didn't make the debut of SSJ3 all that great, and Super Saiyan being a "play thing" to Trunks and Goten was rather stupid in a way. I think the only moment I like in the Buu Saga (Overall) was when Vegeta decided to sacrifice himself, in vain I might add... But still, for some reason, it felt like a call back to Gohan's transformation to SSJ2 and such. Anyways, I think all up, Gohan is still the strongest if we discount the events of the evil DBGT... which I will, because... it's so badly written.
superblahmanofdoom Yes yes and yes, so perfectly written an explained, and DBGT isn't canon, Toryiama had no part in it. Pure shit that was pushed out because people are money whores. (one of the only times I think money whore is used correctly)
Couldn't Goku talk to Future Gohan thru King Kai to tell Gohan to go into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber on Kami's Lookout? Unless Goku was lazy in the afterlife and didn't give a crap.
Holey sheet, you're right! Never thought of that
True facts true facts😈
Yeah and couldn't they just wish Goku back like they did for everyone else... every.single.time.
Tython Uchiha The only problem is Piccolo is dead and without him... no Dragon Balls.
Dax Corsiar But what about Dredi? I think he was still alive at the time.
What actually bugs me more is that in The History Of Trunks, whenever the Saiyan duo comes to save a city, everyone is already dead. They just put their lives at risk for nothing instead of just training or some shit. Idk.
exactly.. why gohan went to die, knowing that he would die, to fight? He's not goku or vegeta, he's smart. He had to teach trunks turn into super saiyan then them both would have a chance
Considering how powerful these beings are, it isnt a stretch to think that a single blast from any ONE of the Androids would be enough to eradicate at least 99 percent of the people living there.
Because they don't know until they hear the news.. It's not rocket science.
Exactly, the main reason for the history of trunks was to show how devastated the future is and the best way to show that was for all the z fighters to be dead and making no way for them to returned and make it seem like there’s no hope. I know it’s supposed to be Tragic and a what if the z fighters were gone. If your Caught up on the series we know about all these people that help the z fighters throughout they’re struggles like the kai’s , king kai, king yamma, even with kami gone you still got mr popo to tell them about the hyperbolic time chamber, like there’s no reason the future should be like this at all but back to future gohan. He made a dumb move, why just sacrifice yourself leaving trunks alone making him the only Saiyan left and in the movie he fought 17 and 18 when he got older and still got whooped and almost killed. It’s like how did you not think of trunks getting revenge for his death without being properly prepared. Trunks has no one to train him no understanding of his Saiyan abilities like he basically left him to die and left him alone like he even says gohan was a brother to him. Then years later bulma developed the time machine which saves the future, so if gohan just survived and trained all those years or then go with trunks to the past it would’ve been worth it. He left trunks in the same state he was in after the death of the Z fighters. Future vegeta in other world probably was like you F-ing idiot.
There is a small population so they’re fighting to stop the androids from killing any more
I think we have to remember, he's training by himself in this future timeline. There's no one to guide him or give him advice. Training with Goku vs. training by yourself makes a world's difference.
Did Gohan train after leaving for Namek up to fighting final form Freeza? Gohan went from 2-3k (maybe 5k after a power boost) all the way up to 1-2 Million 😂😂😂😂. That's a 200x power increase. Gohan getting a 10-20x boost against the androids would be enough to kill them.
Gohan had at least a 2.5 million pl when Goku first died...even if Gohan went Ssj off of that he'd still be around 125m...they state that Gohan was training so a 5x power increase to his base would make him over 10m... Ssj would be 500m. With a Zenkai boost and a rage boost Gohan would be close to 1 billion...this is all LOW BALL. Gohan would kill both 17&18 EASY
He never learned how to DODGE!
thats true
Crap baskets...
StrongArm Elijah oh you say that too
TheMike5125 NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TheMike5125 do you think you could have won against two androids who easily beat the shit out of you at once? I know I could not.so it would be extremely difficult to dodge
I still don't understand why people in dbz just carry the bare minimum of senzu beans
Very limited amount of senzu beans.
+KARMAAA they over use senzu beans
I don't really know but I think that the plant that grows the Senzu Beans only bears little of it. But in Super Goku was able to get a lot. But I remembered a few episodes way back that Kami mentioned that they can only take a limited amount cuz like what I said it can only bear a few of the Senzu Beans. And I think if they take more of it the effect would become less or it wouldn't give them the healing effect anymore.. Hopefully someone corrects me tho ciz this is what I thought.
I would assume the Senzu beans either diminish in power over time after being picked or they go bad.
or even better question why they always need to fish them out of a bag and eat them. If I were them I'd have it setup in a way that if I was getting my butt kicked in a fight I could eat one mid fight and be back to full strength. Like the entire fake tooth spies often use or something. Start losing I bite down on the Senzu/Tooth and bam back up to full strength!
This is where all my dragon ball discussions began guys!
+Qaamans Land QAA MAN AKA QUIN A ALLEN
+Qaamans Land
Hey, Qaaman.
After watching this, I have an idea of why future Gohan was so weak in Trunks's timeline.
I think the reason is because of 3 key factors.
1. Gohan had no sparring partner to train with and improve his skills, since I speculate that it was the reason why Goku was always stronger than Vegeta. It's because you get strong training and sparring with someone than training alone.
2. Gohan didn't have the fighting experience as the other Z Fighters did up until their deaths. Even though Gohan is reasonably powerful, even when he grew to a adult, he still was very inexperienced. And the fact that he was alone, and probably had to try and figure out his abilities all by himself would've made thinga all the more slow and difficult.
3. I believe Gohan didn't have enough time to train since he was mostly likely too busy running and hiding from the Androids to actually train properly. Though he most likely have got a few zenkai boosts in that time.
So Qaaman. This is probably the reason why I think Gohan wasn't strong enough to defeat the Androids of his time. Do you thing what I state makes any sense to your question?
I also recon Gohan should've been a strong or perhaps even stronger than second form Cell at that time too. I even think that if Trunks turned into a SSJ earlier before Gohan died, Gohan could've probably taken out at least one of the Androids.
+Qaamans Land QAAAMN WE SAW YOUR FULL NAME !
And yes that video is where it truly begun ! Such an excellent video still
+Qaamans Land I think that Gohan could not become strong enough because he did not get special training or go through the events that he did in the main timeline. I notice that Toriyama, much to his credit, has a pretty good idea of the natural potential of his characters and I believe he was trying to show that Gohan was pretty much reaching his natural potential. Take Goku from BOG and Super, Beerus said that he doubted that base Goku was strong enough to defeat Freeza, but as soon as he transformed into the ssj forms, then Beerus was convinced. I know this was an old video, but I feel that in this vid you as well as many in the community did not and do not really understand just how gaining strength works in Dragonball and how hard it is to do so. I feel GT made this mistake by making base Goku as strong as ssj3 Buu saga Goku. That is my take on the topic. I don't know what it is but sometimes I like to go back and watch your older vids more than your newer ones, sometimes I feel they are better for some reason but I don't know why.
+Qaamans Land how did see your full name when i watched until i saw the geekdom video
there are only two plausible reasons as to why gohan couldn't defeat the androids.
1. gohan may have been able to turn super sayain but he probable didn't believe that there was a level beyong super saiyan 1 like goku did, so no matter how much he trained psychologically he couldn't surpass a super sayain
2. The writers made a booboo :)
JeremyCuddles really the only plausible explanation is explanation 2.
JeremyCuddles Of course they did. THINK about it. Freeze is really the first 'real' powerful enemy they fight. And he is the weakest of them all. However, Freeza had enough power to destroy a planet. Goku too when he went super sayain as he was stronger than him. That means EVERY enemy after Freeza had enough power to blow up the planet. And with the Z-Warriors being much much stronger as time went on, it would actually TAKE enough power to blow up the planet to even hurt them.
So when... say... Cell throws a Kai Blast, and Goku dodges, it would hit the earth and destroy it, or most of it. Especially concidering Freeza had enough power to destroy Planet Vegeta in his first form, which was much much MUCH weaker than his second, let alone his third.
The andriods shouldn't have been destroying random buildings in the city, there basic blasts should have been destroying entire continents.
***** Vegeta also had the power to destroy planets back when him and goku first fought, remember he got so ticked off that goku could match up with him that he was going to use his galick gun to destroy the earth( which really doesn't make sense if he's still on the earth), and he also detroyed that bug planet before him and nappa first came to earth
DaReal..O.G kep in mind goku and vegeta came to the conclusion that there is something beyond super saiyan because this time they survived the initial assault instead of dying. but before that there was no thought of going beyond super saiyan. so it's very possible gohan had no idea and never thought of training to surpass super saiyan
DaReal..O.G Im almost 100% certain that the writers fucked up.
Gohan should've just planted that Sensu bean. There's many different ways Gohan and Trunks could've saved the Earth from Androids 17/18 in that timeline.
1. As you know, the deceased are more than capable of communication with those in the living world via King Kai. Goku may have died on Earth, but he was still "alive" and well in Otherworld. He could have requested Gohan to be brought in his living body to Otherworld to train with him (and presumably with the other dead Z-Warriors and fighters from Otherworld). Allowing him to learn Kaio-Ken and Spirit Bomb. If Future Gohan used Super Kaio-Ken against the Androids it would have been game over.
2. Goku could have used telepathy to tell Gohan to go into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Trunks.
3. Korin could've told Gohan to drink the mystic water, the same water that brought Goku's oozaru powers to the surface.
4. Goku could've used telepathy to teach Gohan fusion.
OR...
Gohan could've drank the mystic water, been brought to otherworld to train with Goku, learned Fusion, Kaio-Ken, Instant Transmission, Spirit Bomb, and even FSSJ and SSJ2. Then Gohan could've returned to Earth as practically a god, followed shortly by the quick defeat of Androids 17 and 18.
+ToxicFlame707 You're right. No one truly dies in the DB Universe.
+ToxicFlame707
Sensu beans only grow under specific conditions (Korin's tower - It could have been destroyed)
1) Only the dead can go to otherworld without the assistance of the supreme kai's (Without Buu being resurrected they would have no reason to look at Earth I.e., They never met Gohan)
2) Goku can talk through North Kai, but North Kai wouldn't have been accompanying Goku to otherworld in this timeline.
3) Korin may have been dead, and the mystic water granted a boost in Dragon ball, Gohan in this timeline is probably too strong to gain any boost from it.
4) Goku can't speak across dimensions without help (Kami, Kai, etc.)
+MrTickTickB00Mify 2) North Kai wouldn't have died but Goku would have probably go to King Kai's planet and stayed with him to train...
ToxicDubZ i thought he was 18 when was in high school
Super Kaoi Ken isn't an actual thing..
I agree👍. If Gohan gets stronger after each fight, and he witness EVERYBODY he knows get murdered by the Androids. And his power is unleashed thru emotional loss or Anger, He should be at least SSJ2. My question is where's King Kai during all this?
Wtf they died when Gohan was a teenager. He had none of the 3 year training or even training direction from goku or piccolo in the future timeline. I would assume he had to find super sayian on his own and as far as he knew it was the pinnacle of power. He had no direction to try to ascend. Maybe at best Gohan could’ve defeated the androids 1v1 but it’s always been a 2v1 fight when it gets heated. Future Gohan had no chance in the manga against just #17
King Kai is in other world. I don't think he really pays Earth much mind unless Goku contacts him. He didn't even know about the Cell games till Goku instant transmissioned to his world to was where New Namek was.
i agree and i will say that too:
future gohan is weaker because poor writting. how could he survive 13 fucking while vegeta and piccolo got quickly killed? how did he became super saiyen? Bulma could have built the same machine vegeta used to train himself during 3 years: a machine which controls gravity? beside how did trunks knew about dr gero?
DBZ has a lot of preoblem with the writting. when you're young, u can't notice, but by growing up u realise something is wrong.
the whole origin of the saiyans is the most hugest mess in origin history, bigger then even zeldas storyline
I dont really wan to explain it, its alot but theres actually like 3 or maybe 4 different _canon_ yes, _official_ saiyan origin storys, excluding gt. gt is oe of those both is, and isent canon things. To make things shorter dbz is all over the place and takes story lines that would make sense then throws the whole formula out the window.
i think Toriyama did not decide goku sould be a saiyan when he made jos manga. remember he waited until the tome 17 to introduce raditz and goku's origins. consequence: a lot questions raised like why Raditz waited more than 20 years before visiting his brother. there is a lot of problem in the scenario of dbz unlike the scenario of db which is more comic. Raditz himself talks about saiyan like a powerful race which like destroying planet and selling them after. but when Freezer is introduced, vegeta explained saiyans were just slaves of freezer. and u want to look through the scenario u can see for example that the tail of goku and vegeta , and gohan too never came back while in DB goku lost at least 3 times his tail. i think Toriyama lost control of his own manga coz there is a lot of incoherences.
SuperHaoken like krillens hair maybe they just keep cutting the tail
SuperHaoken " how could he survive 13 fucking years while vegeta and piccolo got quickly killed?" Because he didn't fight them until he was an adult. And with no ki reading ability, it's not like the Androids can just find him. He was hiding and training for those 13 years. Not 13 years of fighting Androids like you(and a few other people) assume. Writers-1 You-0
"how did he became super saiyen?" Probably the same way everyone else did. Anger + training? I mean do you really need to SEE it happen? Can't you just assume that during his 13 year training, Gohan got angry enough at all his friends dying to transform? Anyway that seems like too much speculation for you since you seem to like everything handed you and don't bother thinking for yourself I'll give this point to you. Writers-1 You-1
"Bulma could have built the same machine vegeta used to train himself during 3 years" That was Vegeta's idea. Not Bulma's. What's she supposed to do? Just wake up one day and think "HEY! In the original timeline that I know nothing about, I built Vegeta a gravity room upon his request! I'll do the same here for Trunks!" Yeano. Writers-2 You-1
" beside how did trunks knew about dr gero? " Are you serious? I'm not even gonna explain this one. You can figure it out on your own. Writers-3 You-1
"DBZ has a lot of preoblem with the writting. when you're young, u can't notice, but by growing up u realise something is wrong." This is something that's actually very true. But not in the points that you brought up.
SuperHaoken Toriyama always knew Goku was an alien from the beginning, but when did he make up saiyans, we can't really tell. Even in DB he came to Earth from space remember? He turns into an Ape during the full moon. And he was very evil until he hit his head and got amnesia. All of that became Saiyan traits. As for Raditz not visiting Goku, he had other things to do. Remember Saiyans aren't free. They go planet to planet taking over and selling them(not as easy as it sounds). Goku was sent to Earth because the planet was extremely weak, not to sell it, but to destroy it. The other saiyans would have no other reason to go there. Raditz probably passed by the galaxy by coincidence and saw that the Earth was still there. He didn't go there just to "visit." And the tail thing, Goku had to constantly cut his off when he was a kid after he realized he turns into an Ape. Same thing with Vegeta and Gohan. They would also have to constantly chop it off. Toriyama just probably doesn't feel the need to waste time showing them doing that every day. That would be like showing your characters go to the bathroom, or brush their teeth every episode. Just because they don't show it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Look I'm not trying to insult you with this next one, but seriously, watch the whole thing again. Carefully. Read the manga if you have to. But DB and DBZ up until the Frieza Saga is VERY consistent. You just have to think a little. Only after the Android Saga does it become a mess.
dude! its simple. hes not stronger because akira didnt make him stronger. one of the many holes in dbz
He forgot about it..classic akira toriyama
+poeperdhe Don't talk when you don't know anything idiot. Gohan was going to become the main charachter of the serie but Akira got many complaints of fans who wanted Goku and Vegeta to stay. So yeah. You're fucking stupid.
no I want to be the idiot and stupid you take it back from poe!
Ploughs You're wrong.
Look, future gohan didn't have goku to train with in the chamber.
1) Lack of specific training with Goku
2) Lack of specific training in the Time Chamber
3) Lack of having Goku to push him to reach SSJ sooner
4) Lack of Goku demonstrating the "wrong" way of trying to make SSJ form stronger, the "Power-Weighted" SSJ (Stronger but slower), Gohan would have never tried, nor found out about it, if it was never shown to him beforehand
5) Although Gohan was able to reach SSJ eventually, he made SSJ his BASE FORM in the Cell Games, and 16 dying in front of him triggered his surge of emotion to push him PAST everything to become the first SSJ2. Keep in mind, it was also Goku whom taught Gohan to manage his Ki to make SSJ his base form. Future Gohan still used SSJ as his power up.
I will try to articulate this as much as I can remember from the series.
There is a very strong evidence that talent alone was not sufficient for Gohan to overcome the androids and subsequently Cell. During the Cell arc, in the present time, all the Z warriors actually trained in the hyperbolic time chamber and Vegeta and future Trunks even spent more time in there compared to Goku and Gohan. Vegeta and Trunks managed to go slightly stronger when they transform into Super Saiyan (SS) level 1 compared to their own strength earlier but even then they are still inferior to Goku at the same SS transformation after they finished their training.
Gohan on the other hand had untapped potential which were secretly noticed by Goku during their training. But how was this potential brought out in such a short amount of time? The answer, if you remember, was when Goku started to suggest for them to maintain the SS transformation beyond training, meaning they eat, sleep and train in SS Mode! That accelerated Gohan's progress even more than any 13 years spent without guidance. Do remember also that at that point in time, Goku was the strongest among all the Z warriors and he had so much combat experience as well compared with the others. Certainly you cannot compare training with Goku to Gohan practicing with a young Trunks in the future? That remains the strongest explanation on why the future Gohan remains inferior to the present one: the presence of Son Goku and his invaluable training method...
Gohan accelerated so much because Goku took the time to study how to progress even further. We can even deduce that he spent even more time in training than Goku because Goku spent time refining the SS transformation and by the time they got out from the chamber, he had exceeded Goku in the short span of time. That was why Goku made that bet, that Gohan is able to beat Cell...he was able to estimate Gohan was nearing SS level 2 more than he was at that time, hence the quiet confidence and total trust placed on Gohan's shoulders.
I totally agree. Gohan should have been more than enough for them androids in his time but you have to blame the writers on that
I love Future Gohan. Perhaps one of my favorite 3 characters in the whole Dragon Ball series including Kid Goku and Goten. But 13yrs is a long time to live in fear of the androids, and the cities look like their still bustling with life, no preparation and no real fear of the androids. I also believe the reason for Gohan in the main timeline became fully controlled SSJ is because of Goku of course. It was also Goku who told Gohan he had hidden potential and they would work on that. Gohan has always been shown to be a very emotional character, so I believe the moral boost also plays a key. I also believe since Trunks didn't go back in his main timeline to prevent Goku from dying from a fatal heart virus, they would of had no need to go in the hyperbolic time chamber as they had no prior knowledge of the androids. Goku probably stilled trained as always, and Gohan was probably forced in the books by Chi-Chi. Even if Gohan immediately became a SSJ after the death of Goku, or when the Z Fighters fall to the androids, his base power plus SSJ multiplication would still be weak compared to a main stream version who still trained in preparation for such events. To explain the 13yr time gap, I would like to think he mainly helped everyone evacuate because of his emotional and caring nature rather then training. The rest is probably he helped Bulma raise Trunks in someway. I also believe this would explain that the SSJ Theory Gene is true for Goten and Trunks to become SSJ's at such an early age, compared to Trunks of this timeline who wasn't conceived by a ssj at the time and still being a child was never even trained by Vegeta, thus he would have to learn all basic fighting, ki control, and etc from Future Gohan or Korrin, or Mr. Popo or something, but it makes more sense with Gohan. So Gohan helping raise Trunks slightly or fully took more time caring for him then actually fully training because he was probably happy despite all of what happened, a saiyan half breed like himself was born. Anyone ever play Infamous? End of game one where Kessler ran away with his family rather then potentially killing the Beast, so the beast got stronger, and Kessler probably weaker from lack of training.
I apologize for the wall of text. I was on a ranting roll XD
Nice post brah. I love Future Gohan too and it's a shame he died. But, the sad thing is if he somehow killed the Androids, he would have been up shit creek without a paddle once Cell came looking for the Androids and discovered 'oh they're dead?' and for that note so would the rest of the already wasteland-ish world.
I see you liking future gohan but like he had such short time in the series i don't see him being a favorite character but its your opinion and i really hate goten he is my least favorite character in the entire dragon ball franchise.
no Cell in his life, he dont have true master
LÊ TÙNG True but with 13 years those androids should be microwave parts
Qaamans Land Not true. Gohan in the main timeline never trained alone, he didn't have the fighting expertise for that. He never achieved anything alone. That with the fact that, in any type of training, a partner will always help you achieve things you could never by yourself, could explain why 13 years didn't mean anything against the Androids.
AJVersatility19 in the last of dragonball gt Goku say that Picolo is best friend of him. almost duel, Picolo always behind Son and his son. may be he dont have power as Sayzan but he has skill, he tought Gotenk, Gohan. i think both of them (kami and picolo) very goo teacher.
Anthony Huerta I mean he did turn super saiyan in this timeline. So he probably trained for a while.
LÊ TÙNG I agree. Piccolo is awesome at non fighting related things too
Future Gohan wasn't stronger because nobody was there to tell him to "Let it go". He himself once mentioned that he was scared of what he might become and it was maddening. That's why he held himslef back. Plus even this Gohan is hell lot better than that DBS bitch.
No dbs super can at least defend himself against beerus this one lost to androids
+LJ Cool dbs gohan is weaker than piccolo
+Quasiem Edmondson so you're telling me gohan in dbs super can defend himself against beerus when super Saiyan God goku cannot even make beerus try and beat him
+Quasiem Edmondson yeah sorry for that but you're right beerus would put his hand out on gohan forehead while eating some thing and then flick him and kill gohan
It would be fucking awesome if this Gohan just let it go, turned Super-Saiyan 2 and fused with the present Gohan using Potara fusion.
Dragon ball z has so many plot holes. You can justify it all you want but it does. It's a great show, but the story is flawed. One that always bothered me is how did it take Goku 4 hours to kill Freiza (2 hours as a supersaiyan) but it took Trunks 5 minutes... I mean, even if Trunks was stronger than Goku was vs Freiza that makes no sense. The writer kind of cheapened one of the best villains in the show.
Trunks wasted no time. Surprise attack aka Burning Attack. He defeated Frieze/Freeza as quickly as possible unlike Goku who wanted a fair fight to humiliate Frieze/Freeza.
Its like you said, unlike Goku, Trunks actually knows five minutes means five minutes.
Mister Inevitable I'm not buying it, it's just poor writing. There's been far more evidence of this throughout the season. This video even addresses it.
Ok, we all agree DBZ has some huge plot holes in it, but that's why we are here discussing it. We know x and x this has plot holes, but as fans of the series we try to make sense of it all. If you don't buy it, that's your choice. Continue to live in turmoil over it, but me I find most of the DBZ theories to explain gaps in events are highly interesting.
Mister Inevitable well good for you. I don't lose sleep about it, it's just something I noticed. I like the series.
awesome video and great analyzing of the events. I agree with every word.
off topic I've always wanted to see a movie of after trunks returns and destroy the androids... like bringing all the z fighters back to life... that movie would be awesome in so many levels and will be way more interesting than the last movies....
I agree. How could Gohan at age 12 defeat Perfect Cell But couldn't defeat the weaker androids in his 20's. Complete joke. The androids were simply meant to be the end all be all villains at the point in the dbz series. And as such no one could approach their power level even Gohan. Nothing happened that wouldve kept Gohan from at least getting to imperfect or near perfect Cell's level considering Trunks, Goku, and Vegeta got to that level in a year or two of training.
ikr smh
@Quasiem Edmondson yeah seems you got the perfect "because" explaination, smart ass !
Briar Jensen he didn't the hyperbolic time chamber and the opportunity to train with goku but idk gohan seena lot tragic events in the future you figure one of those would've triggered his full potential rage mode
If anything Gohan would have fought the androids at a much younger age and died in his teens, and there wouldn't have been a Gohan/Trunks relationship to begin with..
Think about it like this, if goku never met king kai he wouldnt have been as strong as he was to fight the sayians. A master helps with your potential. Goku & piccolo died. Training yourself only gets you so far
it's funny because the androids in the normal timeline were way way stronger than. Future trunks timeline. Trunks said this himself. So it strange that adult gohan couldn't beat the androids.
take note though, gohan was able to handle one Android by himself..... he just couldn't beat both of them
In the manga android 17 stomped him without 18's help without even using 50% of his power. Toriyama is a terrible writer
The main difference between the gohans.
future gohan never spent time just in SSJ form. That was where the major power up was from. His body properly adapted. In the 13 years they had to be a bit careful on training since androids had sensors. They repeatidly throughout the series he has had his potential awakened many times. The main factor seen is that his body can only use so much of it at a time. To get to SSJ2 a major factor seems to be adapting the body first. When goku returns and shows SSJ3 he more or less says that his body can't handle the power compression; basically even dead it risks bursting out of his body.
So the future Gohan doesn't seem to have ever adapted properly to SSJ. Look at when he transforms there is a lag time and he has that "force it" face, that after goku and gohan learn to stay in the form near permi doesn't show (they basically just click it on like a light switch). So future gohan had all that training but he kinda plateud on how much SSJ he could pull out.
I don't think gohan saw any of his friends die, so the impact of their deaths weren't as much, since he wigs out the most when it's right in his face. Just hearing about it tends to inspire his despair more than anger. Like when he was told goku was dead; he collapsed in sadness not anger. Until Vegeta got him angry; though not that angry at all really
last bit being. Do we even know when future gohan became able to SSJ? Goku never taught him, presumably vegeta didn't teach anything either. though he might wha t with so few sayain leftSo he sure didn't have a teacher to learn more on how to get it. Hell he might have only discovered SSJ when piccallo died pretty recently.
The two androids also seemed stronger as well oddly. I think they were, mainly because in that world Gero never turned himself into an adroid (as far as we know) so those two seemed a lot stronger. in the past he shut them down after rebelling and deciding he wanted to do it himself. so he worked on himself and that other one instead of 17 and 18; like pressumbily he did in the future version. Though future trunks kinda did say/imply that the presetnt day androids were stronger.. It's a bit weird really considering the disparity between anime future gohan and the manga versions etc. so thats kinda a crapshoot.
The hyper bolic chamber has something special as well. Trunks 2 years in the chamber had a much bigger difference in what he got out of it. This can be explained in 2 ways easily. One being he could train without worrying about androids trackingh im down, or the chamber has a special trait to it. past the time speed up. Considering everyone's reactions to the chamber it's likely het second.
just random thoughts i've always thoght of
the 17 that is shown fighting piccolo could beat the other two androids two on one with little difficulty the present time androids are literally 3 to 4x stronger
if they were history of trunks androids vegeta wouldve demolished android 18
He wasn't stronger because with Goku dead in that timeline, there was nothing to stop Chichi from making Gohan spend 24/7 studying with no time to train.
Dude think about the fact that there would be no school and that gohan would had to trained regardless of the fact bc even in times chi chi tells gohan to fight or train with goku
karmst1996 yeah. but i guess-. as Goku was dead Vegeta was dead Piccolo was dead even krillin and Yamcha. Gohan had to train on his own. He had no master at that point. Remember. Future trunks warned them 3 years before and gave Goku the medicine. So Gohan was already a lot stronger at the beginning of the Androidsaga than future Gohan was. He had to make up that enormous gap on his own, reach supersayan on his on and gain the strength to fight the androids alone. If he had th time to properly train Trunks to a point Trunks reaches Supersayan i´m pretty sure. Future Gohan could have become stronger than Goku as he had a sparringpartner that could help him reach the next level
Thabang Moerane No, she was definitely alive, it was shown in the special that she was worrying about Gohan fighting the Androids.
except the androids..........
but still got still got the time chamber im sure he would have used it
Cmon guys We all know Yamcha is the strongest
***** mr satan is the strongest m8
roy ow Mr.popo
Chaotzu is stronger than super saiyan god
MrTiggityTotz23 Mr.popo above all.
+cdoz89 Chaotzu has taken over the pecking order
Can’t believe it’s been over 10 years now. I remember being 9 years old when I first stumbled into your channel and now I’m about to be 19. Time sure goes by fast.
How do you think I feel?
@@QaamansLand not so sure, but hopefully a positive feel. You had a positive influence with my love with dragon ball and eventually expand to other anime’s.
If future gohan was weaker than the weakest version of android 17 who was stated to be using less than *HALF* of his power, we can assume future gohan after 13 years of training was probably weaker than freeza. Which i call bullshit, that makes no sense whatsoever, then again DBZ is not a good anime for it's story, it's a good anime for it's ass-whoopings.
the androids were stronger than freeza
Fletcher Smith no shit.
DJYC21215
Goku was weaker than Frieza in base as stated by Bills o.o
General Nappa Base is irrelevant. base teen Gohan was weaker than cell yet Decimated him in SSJ2. Base does not matter, only their strongest form does. Frezia>>>>>Base Goku BUT SSJ Goku>/=Frezia 100%. Thats all that matters. Their bases only started getting strong once they achieved MSSJ, and even then their bases were always weaker than the villains they were fighting. Besides Non-canon movies of course.
Made no sense at all
The reason why he wasnt stronger is super simple. First of all, 13 years of practice doesnt mean anything if the practice isnt efficient. The reason why the practice isnt efficient in the future is 2 reasons. First one is, unlike you said, Trunks is not a good training partner, because you dont improve at pretty much anything if you consistently only match against weaker counterparts. The second reason why training wasnt efficient is, theres absolutely no one, and I mean really no one, who can teach them how to train efficiently, nor train them technique in fighting style or anything really.
Now also, Teen Gohan turned ss2 when he live seen his friends get beat up and 16 dying right in front of him, WHILE he was already at a very high level of skill. What I want to say is
1) you need to be at a certain level before you can even dream of turning ss2 and
2) he didnt see most his friends die in front of his eyes + the biggest figure in his life, goku is already dead and he cant feed with rage off of that, WHICH MEANS he gets accustomed to ppl near him dying, thus he doesnt get as mad as if it was the first time he loses someone.
TLDR: 13 training super inefficient, he wasnt high enough lvl to go ss2, he grew accustomed to ppl around him dying.
My thought on why Gohan was not stronger are:1) During the Cell games what allowed Gohan to advance in strength rapidly was his fathers teachings, Future Gohan lacked this and had to figure most of it out for himself. I doubt he spoke to Korin or Mr Popo about training and relied on what he had been taught by Piccolo and Goku before their deaths.2) The main reason is because it made a better story for Future Gohan to be killed after training Trunks. and for him to carry to travel back in time.On another note I always wondered why Bulma did not build a Spaceship to look for New Namek and use their Dragon Balls to resurrect and restore the Z-Fighters, Civilians and Planet.
+Demian Buckle nailed it
+Demian Buckle Exactly! Consider this as well - he also missed the 4 years of intense training with Goku and Piccolo, where they both mentored him to become the fighter he was when he entered the hyperbolic time chamber. That was 4 years of uninterrupted training with two of the greatest fighters on the planet, that Future Gohan was not given as they had lived peacefully for the 4 years before the Androids arrival.
the real question is how come Goku couldnt do a one day return like he did in the Buu Saga He couldve destroyed the Cyborgs found New Namek and Dende etc
Bulma didn't know where new namek was and she never met king Kai
+RicinPhantom I would believe that but you have to remember in that timeline he's the one that killed Freeza so should have been able to keep his body
SSJ2 was not an easy transformation state to reach, there are clearly some unexplained reasons as to why certain characters in certain scenarios have not been able to reach SSJ2, and even SSJ3 for that matter, while others have. It's likely a mental / emotional state of mind as well as meeting the necessary physical requirements.
When you look at Gohan transforming to defeat Cell, you can assess that his motivations for wanting to ascend were not solely based on rage, but the desperate need to want to protect his friends and ultimately the planet. At this point there was no one else who could defeat Cell, but they were mostly all still alive and so he was motivated to preventing their deaths.
Future Gohan did not receive training from Goku in the HTC and so likely learned to transform into a Super Saiyan much later on. By the time he likely met the physical requirements to ascend, he very much likely lacked the will or the mental state, due to almost everyone already being dead. When you see depictions of that world, it is definitely post-apocalyptic and without hope. So I would surmise that while Gohan wanted to defeat the androids, the events that took place in his timeline had made absent what was required for Gohan to transform. Call it hope, the will to protect, courage, or a combination of these and others, I really believe this is why future Gohan could never ascend. Gohan not being a born fighter or a fighting genius, probably didn't even consider a transformation beyond Super Saiyan.
+Ruki Wu best explanation here .. thanks!
+Ruki Wu best explanation here .. thanks!
joyis9638 You're welcome dude!
+Ruki Wu ssj3 is considered to be reached only through fusion, or when you're dead (basically your body being able to handle it). This was shown especially once goku was revived and fought kid buu. the ssj3 transformation burned waaaaaay too much energy for his body to handle too long. This is also shown in the fact that vegeta was never able to reach ssj3.ssj1 and 2 are definitely a mental/emotional thing. On one hand, goku turned because of krillin dying, and vegeta turned because he became extremely desperate during his training. Same comparison can be made for gohan vs goku/vegeta for ssj2.
+Ruki Wu Gohan ascended by relaxing himself and allowing the rage to flow outwards. He was also tense, holding it back in. Watch the moment he ascends, as he grunts and shakes to keep his rage in check. When Android 16 says "Gohan... let it go. Please, drop your restraints. Just let it go.". Cell steps forward and ends 16's existence. It is at that moment that Gohan begins to stop shaking, and a bird flies across the screen. You hear Gohan grunt one last time, and he says "I wont let it happen anymore..." as the screen cracks. Like a relaxing your butthole before taking a massive shit, Gohan had just relaxed his restraints. It was only for a second, but it was enough for the rage to just overwhelm him completely. He explodes, and ascendes with the combination of rage, and the emotions of letting 16 down.
Gohans rage was not just going to happen one day. Goku knew that, and so he spent the year preparing Gohan (as later explained) in the time chamber. Android 16 also recognized that Cells plan would not unlock Gohans rage, and so everyone would die. 16 sacrificed his existence to encourage Gohan to let go. Finally, Perfect Cell took deliberate and calculated actions to upset the boy. He even says to 16 "I plan on doing this my way" when 16 tries to use words to unlock the rage. All the key-players knew Gohans rage was not guaranteed. It was a possibility, a gamble Goku put his bets on, Android 16 died for, and something Cell was prepared to kill everyone to see.
These events were not in the Future Timeline. Future Gohan would have trained himself to control his rage, and in doing so, without any help or encouragement, he never learned to unlock his true potential.
I explained this once, but my comment got old, so now it's lost. But here it is again for you new guys:
Its not the amount of time you train, it is the type of training you do. Just like real life. Why do people learn from other people? Because it is more effective to build on the knowledge of past generations. Same concept goes with DBZ.
Look at Goku, he had been training hard since he was a baby. 20+ years and couldn't beat Freeza until his mid or late 20s. You telling me it took 25+ years to be even in the same league as these androids? And Goku is the star of the show!
Vegeta has trained harder than anyone in the series, and is still weak. Future Gohan didn't have Goku's training knowledge, so that is why he was weak. Goku had a life-time amount of experience, which he gave to Gohan in the Time Chamber, so effectively Gohan has skipped 20+ years of training by just training 1 year with his dad.
wow never thought about it that way....nice insight
i would like to add that as u say if gohan didn't train with anyone else he wouldn't get a zankai boost or what is called in japanese as the video says.when he was training with his father in the time chamber he was getting at his limits so he also got a lot of boost to his powers plus the boost of the 3 years with picollo and goku combined training him.also we shouldn't forget that he probably never trained with anyone except picollo when he was 4 for 6 moths only(that is how much he trained if i remember correctly)cause there wouldn't be a future trunks to tell them to train so gohan would study the 3 years till the androids came.
TheTimon64 that is a good know but what I also can imagine is that when they cut out the part when Gohan fights the androids I believe that Gohan probably defeated the androids and told them to leave the planet which they respond by saying "fine, sure" then Gohan turns his back fly's to tell Trunks and Bulma to tell them that the androids not a threat anymore before the androids do a sneak attack behind Gohans back and finish him off which would explain why trunks sees Gohan dead face down.
There are a lot of inconsistencies, surely Goku would have been training in the spirit world, would have won a tournament and give a day on earth again, thus coming back killing the androids and saving everyone.
He wasn't training with anyone stronger than himself though, i know from my own martial arts training that it's way harder to train and improve that much without someone stronger to train with... it's way way harder
This randomly got referred to me 9 years later lol but I definitely feel like Future Gohan is what set our expectations so high for current Gohan because Future Gohan had the MC traits that we expected current Gohan to have minus the pain of loss Future Gohan suffered. Also as much as I love Kyle Herbert’s potrayal of Gohan, I loved Damian Clark’s English potrayal of Future Gohan, the fact that he voiced both Future Gohan and Cell is crazy because he definitely has range to give the characters different tones, took me awhile to realize he voiced both characters
Maybe because you recently watched a lot of my videos?
What did you think of my recent Nozawa video?
@@QaamansLand I have lol, and we actually did have a small chat in your Nozawa video which was a great video btw, I really like your content because you discuss the things that others try to avoid discussing in the DB community, Geekdom had lightly mentioned Nozawa’s age in a stream video but you actually went in depth with it and voiced the same concerns I have with Toei wasting valuable years of Nozawa’s time. Keep up the great content man, loving the consistency also
You made a few mistakes. Gohan was 16 in the Buu Saga and thus, he is not an adult, he is a Teen. The reason why Gohan wasnt as strong is because he doesnt know how to break far beyond his limits and become stronger. He never had that kind of training like Goku and Vegeta did so his strength boost as the same rate as humans, which is really slow.
Actually vegito he was 18 in the buu saga .
No he was not. He was 4 at the start of DBZ, 4.5 by Saiyan Saga, 6 by Trunks Saga, 9 by Androids Saga (10 if you count Time chamber training) and 16 by the time of Buu Saga. The Funimation dub aged him up.
*****
notice u age in the hyperbolic chamber still so the years spent in there count technically
Early Gohan=4/5
Mid Gohan=11
Late Gohan-=18
F. Gohan=23
Gohan was 17 xD lol in buu saga
Future Gohan may have trained longer, but not all training is equivalent. You need to realize that Gohan is not a fighting genius like his father. The reason that Future Gohan was weaker than present time Gohan is that future Gohan trained by himself while present time Gohan was trained by Goku who was a fighting genius. Think about it this way, a year of training from Chuck Liddell will make you a better fighter than 13 years as a mere street fighter.
The reason Gohan wasn't strong enough to beat the Androids is simple. With out Goku to teach him he had to force himself to SSJ1. With no pressure from his father SSJ2 wouldn't come out. Making him perhaps a bit better than ssj1. Like Goku was with Cell. We all know what a normal super saiya-jin does against an android. Get its butt kicked that's what.
I think also the fact that the technique of becoming a full-powered super saiyan was key to becoming an SSJ2 which is why Future Gohan never got to that level cause he didn't know about that technique.
But even then its the same Gohan as the timeline we know with the same hidden potential. You would think even without Gokus guidance and after 13 years of training, one way or another, that power would be come out like when Raditz was hurting Goku and Gohan snapped. Gohan had a lot more motivation to getting angry in this timeline. It should have come out somehow. Maybe not enough to make him go SSJ2, but I think it would be more than enough to one-punch destroy the androids.
"Power Levels are Bullsh**", that's all. You just needed continuity when it came to the android saga, so Future Gohan had to die in order to explain how Trunks reached his Super Saiyan form. The actual manga (and more popularly known anime) even stated that Gohan got a power boost, but only upon the brink of death and serious injury, and he gets the full Zenkai boost. Where as full blooded Saiyans get a variety of boosts depending on the injury itself, so long as it's not self-inflicted. Of course the main suggestions being that during the battle on Earth against the Saiyans, Gohan is tuckered out from exhaustion and injuries, and is hospitalized. His dormant base power shot from 1,100 on earth, to over 3,000 as he was able to contend with Freeza's men, along with Krillian with no training aside from mind-shadow-boxing on the ship. That's the first example. Next, Gohan was felled by the Ginyu Force, but a Senzu bean gets him back up when he is in critical condition. Which comes to the next boss battle... Freeza. It's seen that Gohan grounds Freeza in his second form, but doesn't down him completely, so Freeza gets up and incapacitates Gohan. Upon Dende revitalizing him he is able to contend with Freeza who transformed again into his third stage. His Zenkai boosts are apparent in the canon anime and manga... Just not when he's been hit a few times or able to flee from any battle.
The Zenkai boosts might not have fully mattered in the future timeline but that isn't to say that it didn't exist, I say this because Gohan always fought alone, right? Well, he always escaped as well... So his injuries might not have been enough to get a Zenkai boost since he obviously wasn't put into critical condition. Another example would be he was having trouble with Android 17, or at least evenly matched until he had to save Trunks. He was weaker than the two of androids combined in his timeline... However, after having his arm blown off, and a few months time to recover, you saw him only over-seeing and training Trunks... Not exactly training himself, since he had to keep himself restrained while doing so. But when he went to fight the androids on his own, he was able to basically fight the two of them on his own terms with only one arm, where as he had two arms and had the same difficulty with one android. So he DOES get the Zenkai boost just like anyone with Saiyan blood would get, it is just a matter of the severity of his injury before he gets it in full.
As for his training, it's not to say he didn't train. He couldn't foolishly challenge the androids relying on Zenkai boosts time and time again, but let's remember that if you're comparing the conditions of training on Earth as opposed to gravity training or the conditions of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, he could only increase his power so much in such a time. A year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber isn't exactly stated to be equivalent to any training on Earth's normal gravity, but it's stated the further out you go from the center, the heavier the gravity and the hotter it becomes. So it's safe to say there's gravity training there, just like on North Kai's planet where "a full year of training there is 10 years on earth". So yeah, his training would be normalized, per se, not any factor that he didn't have the ambition to awaken his powers.
But like I said before... "Power Levels are Bullsh**"... Gohan dying was feeder for the fire in the canon of the series itself. If not, Trunks wouldn't have had a need to go back in time if he and Gohan could still fight in the future.
As for Gohan's age... It's well known, he's 23 in the future, but comparing to his "present counterpart"... He was the age of 4 upon introduction (DBZ taking place 5 years after DB's final episode and Chichi wasn't even pregnant. Just married.), a year's training under Piccolo makes him 5. We'll assume his month on Namek and the God-awful Garlic Junior saga gave him around a year to his celebrated birthday, so he's 6 there when Future Trunks comes into play... Three more years pass for training for the androids making him 9 years old. For those who are shocked... "Teen" Gohan after the Hyperbolic Time Chamber is only 10 years old... Figure that one out for me... And upon the Buu Saga, it's stated in the canon that 6 years passed since the defeat of Cell. So that leaves him with the age of 16 in his age, but relatively only 15 outside of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber's time - which is actually 1st year for the Japanese High School. What do you know, he actually started his FIRST YEAR of High School then too. Eh, guess the story line got something right, right? Backing that up is why Goten is only 5 years old - 9 months to form the lil' fetus of a half-breed Saiyan. So saying he's 18 at the start of the Buu Saga is actually a bogus statement. Because A, the Japanese manga (no mistranslations allowed) hold precedence... And B, it's never actually stated what age he was after the first episode of the series, where he was introducing himself to Bulma. We just say "Teen Gohan" and "Adult Gohan" to make it easier for us to know which time of Gohan's life we were talking about to the advant fans of the series who don't know any better. As "Teen Gohan" is actually the "Adult Gohan" in the Buu saga, and "Adult Gohan" is the adult seen in the final episode of DragonBall Z, as well as DragonBall Z: Battle of the Gods. Why we messed up something so simple, I'll never know. :3
hell yes lol
Nailed it!
Honestly during this time period, future Gohan should of been around SSJ2 level already with his amount of training and facing against the androids multiple times. Especially since he was able to land hits on them clearly shows he should of increased his power to the next level. Plus Trunks would of been the excellent training partner to push him to that level he needed to be. Imagine if Gohan would of asked bulma to make a gravity room him and trunks could of trained in 500X gravity they would of defeated the androids easily then.
I think what it comes down to is mental limitations.. For example vegeta never reached new levels of power until he was shown by other characters what was possible.. And vegeta also trained nonstop but rarely ever reached uncharted territory,, he was always following in the footsteps of other saiyans.. Gohan may have trained for 13 years but you forget that he seriously doubted himself even after training with goku and in the future had to bear the burden of knowing all his friends died and that probably doubled his disbelief in himself.. Gohan only reached new levels because the first super saiyan in a thousand years seen serious potential in gohan who was put under the right specific circumstance to unleash it.. Otherwise 9 times out of ten, gohan training without goku would be weaker than vegeta training alone
Simple.
For The Plot
1) DBZ and its power levels are complete BS, no one knows how they work and why stuff never seem to make sense.
2) Pretty sure future Gohan loses because he decided to look like Yamcha and as we all know, luck is not with Yamcha
In short this kinda exemplifies Gohan's role outside of the Cell saga in that he always possesses ungodly power but is always utterly fucking useless. It was even worse than this in the Buu Saga where they flat out say that he's the "strongest in the universe" (or something to that effect) and then he's given a massive power boost on top of that and he utterly fails to do anything worthwhile.
I honestly think that Toriyama was initially intending for Gohan to succeed Goku and become the hero (I honestly think he makes a way better hero than Goku anyway) but then just totally forgot about it and ended up bringing Goku back.
HammerOfDan I think you're partly right. But I also think that maybe Toriyama's idea what that Gohan was a pacifist. Don't ya think? Ever since DBZ started he was completely different to that of Goku, Goku was out there for the world to see, whilst maybe because of chi chi, Gohan led a more sheltered life so he never ended up as Goku's true successor, he was never well mannered and scared of so many things. Whilst Goku (at the same age pretty sure) was off fighting the Red Ribbon Army. It's like Toriyama took Goku and made a what if a few things were different version and that turned into Gohan.
Jrenyar I could agree with that if it wasn't for the Cell and Buu Sagas. He is completely painted as the initially reluctant, but very effective, hero; that and he seemed to have totally overcome his pacifism in the Buu saga.
I'd have also been more willing to accept it if his story had been "he was a pacifist so his power just never developed". However Toriyama really obsesses about him being the "strongest in the universe" and being "stronger than Goku"; it feels like a really heavily foreshadowed plot twist that was abandoned (or forgotten about) at the last minute.
HammerOfDan Yeah, but why does it mean that he still can't be a pacifist? He was strong, sure. But he realised later on in life that it wasn't just black and white. For example: he didn't really train in the the years between the Cell games and Buu saga. It just tells me that yeah he can fight and he protects the earth, but he was never the main man.
I think it was a nice contrast to Goku who was always willing to fight and looking forward to a challenge almost to the point to foolishness. And here you have his son who is much stronger than him without putting nearly as much work into it and he doesn't really want to fight. As you see after the Buu saga that he gives up fighting altogether.
Rishabh Sawhney I actually totally agree that he is a pacifist. The problem is simply that Toriyama really pushes his character development and makes a massive deal out of him overcoming his pacifism in order to help people; the reluctant hero is the truest hero. Its a massive chunk of decent plot development that he then has to totally retcon later on and then give Goku a massive helping of plot convenience to catch him up to Gohan; it really is never explained how Goku catches up to, and then surpasses, Gohan.
Then he tosses in the Z-sword section and, once again, goes on and on about how strong Gohan is just to have him one-sidedly shit stomped by Super Buu because of reasons.
If he wasn't supposed to become the hero then just don't have him defeat Cell. Have Vegeta do it instead; not only does he deserve it more but he makes a way better rival for Goku and is just generally a deeper character; it would have made the Majinn plotline way better as well. Gohan, as he is, just feels like a wasted plot-line; way too much development with not enough payback.
HammerOfDan Gohan is called the strongest in the universe because no one knows how much stronger goku and vegeta have both gotten at this point. both of which have continued to train after the cell saga. Vegeta even says himself that gohan is MUCH weaker than when he fought against cell. (Lack of training) then when he fights goku he says "Atleast your more powerful than gohan was when he fought cell" So to be blunt Goku is the strongest in the universe up until Gohan gets "Mystic" Gohan and then hes still not as strong as goku is at SSJ3 as is stated by not only vegeta but goku himself when he tells everyone that he could have defeated Majin buu when he was ssj3
I can understand Future Gohan never turning ss2, as there was never really a situation that required him to. But he should have easily been strong enough to beat the future androids, especially considering the fact that they are weaker than the present androids. After 1 year in the hyperbolic time chamber, Vegeta (who had only very recently turned super saiyan) and Trunks were able to reach ascended saiyan level and dumpster all over second form Cell, who was far above the stronger present androids. It should also be mentioned that Vegeta and Trunks did not train together, so a training partner is not necessary in order to grow so much in power, although I believe it helps greatly. In 13 years and with multiple zenkai boosts, Gohan should have been able to at least get close to this level if not surpass it.
So we don’t know that for sure vegeta and trunks did train together as in a trunks talks about how much of grueling training it was for him and vegeta and in súper in a flashback back vegeta says something along the lines of “ even I a gifted warrior would taken longer to reach this power on my own”
Side characters have shown time and time again that they cannot rise to the occasion when it comes to high-end fights. Tien is a badass, for sure, but none of the human characters have ever shown that much potential.
I do agree that Gohan should have been a lot stronger. Considering how much he trained, how hard he tried to be like Goku, and everything he had been through, he should have been a complete powerhouse. From a story perspective, they needed a foil to drive Trunks ahead, plus it added an emotional impact. That, and it allowed for a reason for Trunks to go back in time instead of just sending Gohan back. To be honest, there are a huge number of plot holes in DBZ, and it could be beaten to death. In the end I was okay with him going out the way he did, Future Gohan was a total badass, even getting killed, and it allowed for a pretty cool version of Trunks to exist.
I agree with on side characters. Most of them were just pushed to the background and the only other characters in the show that wasn't a Saiyan was Piccolo when it came to fight the bad guys or mentor one of the kids (really he looked after Gohan more than Goku did)
***** As cool as Piccolo was, even he suffered from falling further and further behind in power when you compared him to Goku or the other saiyan characters. It's a shame sometimes, because early on some of those side characters were a ton of fun. Humans just don't match the strength of many alien races. In general humanity is pretty weak in the DB universe.
TFS Vegeta - "WELL MAYBE YOU GUYS AREN'T TRYING HARD ENOUGH!!!" I'll admit after a while he was behind a few notches behind Goku and the others, he was still awesome. What was his power level after the Buu Saga? I think I remember someone saying by the end of GT he could take on SS3 but I may be remembering it wrong and people always debate about GT being canon or not
***** Even if he had a high power level - something that time and time again was shown to be more or less arbitrary - it didn't help his overall effectiveness. Honestly, as the series went on, Vegeta became as useless as the rest of the Z Warriors that didn't have a name that started with a G. It's like having all of the strength in the world and none of the skill or finesse; he always busted in, looking cool, and almost always immediately got smacked aside like he was a paperweight made of, well, paper. Which always bothered me considering the upbringing that Vegeta had. But that's a totally different issue, I'm sure.
You have point, Vegeta did get kicked around by Cell and Buu. Also in GT, didn't Baby take control of his body? Like you mentioned before, humans Z-fighters were got the short-end of the stick like this: Yamcha was comepletely cast aside from just about every battle after Dr. Gero tore a hole through him, Tien and Krillin had a few shining moments i.e. Semi-Perfect Cell, I don't think Chiaotzu ever did anything after he was revived a second time. In the end, alot of the original cast was either forgotten or use as comic relief
Tien also trained during the 3 years between trunks coming and the androids. In fact he got to a point where he could hold of second form cell!! If Tien can do that in 3 years then Gohan with much more time and being super saiyan should have no problem with lesser versions of androids! Food for thought xD I don't question it too much becuase it would affect the whole story :D
WHY DIDNT TIEN USE THE SHIN KIKIHO
No no let’s correct something tien wasn’t as strong we semi-perfect cell the only reason he did anything was that technique cause it kept pushing cell back further and further but cell wasn’t actually getting hurt it was annoying if anything else cause he kept getting pushed to the bottom of the hole
No no let’s correct something tien wasn’t as strong we semi-perfect cell the only reason he did anything was that technique cause it kept pushing cell back further and further but cell wasn’t actually getting hurt it was annoying if anything else cause he kept getting pushed to the bottom of the hole
@@criscabrera9098 I never said he was as strong as Cell, just that he held him off which is an impressive strength increase for Tien?? Thanks for incorrectly trying to correct my 6 year old comment though.
He's just a god damn role model.
This is my theory on it. In martial arts, training in solitude only gets you so far. Eventually you need to test those skills against someone at or above your level. Mirai Gohan had nobody to TRAIN with except Trunks, and that was only for a short time before he died. The Androids were cold-blooded killers in this timeline, so he couldn't afford to make the mistakes you allow yourself when training. It was about survival first, with any learning experience being incidental. Yes, Mirai Gohan did train for a lot longer than Gohan Prime, but against whom?
For comparison, let's look at Goku in the Namek saga and Vegeta in the Android saga. They were able to accomplish quite a lot in their gravity training, but it only carried them so far. Goku still ended up in a healing tank, so it basically took his gravity training plus a Zenkai boost from nearly losing to Ginyu for him to even touch Frieza. Vegeta spent his time training in the gravity chamber or in space and became a Super Saiyan that way, yes. But as you can see, being a Super Saiyan wasn't enough to beat 17 and 18 in that timeline. Eventually you can and do plateau training alone, so he trained with Trunks in the Time Chamber, as did Goku and Gohan, which is the only reason any of them cracked USSJ or SSJ2. With Piccolo and Kami gone, using the Time Chamber is unlikely, especially since Mirai Gohan couldn't afford to leave the Earth unguarded long enough to use it. So while the amount of training time was drastically increased, the quality of training went down (training against Goku and Piccolo will take you to your limit, which can only be a good thing for a Saiyan.) So, the dip in training quality, the loss of his arm and the distraction of worrying about Trunks all added up against him, especially considering it was 2-on-1.
I think think this is pretty simple really. He didn't get the REAL training from his father and piccolo.
Quality over time quantity. :)
This
A number of things I've read in the comments here leads me to a couple rebuttals:
1) Indeed, Piccolo died, so there were no dragonballs to revive Goku.
2) Goku basically died a natural death, and not selflessly in any battle to save Earth or anything that allowed him to be given his body in Other World as with all the other times. If so, he wouldn't have gone to King Kai, and wouldn't have had a line of communication with Gohan. That doesn't quite explain the others, though, but it does lead into my next point:
3) Goku was the one to come up with the idea of ascending beyond the level of a super saiyan. Without his input, Gohan would never have pursued whatever method of training he needed to figure out those Ultra Saiyan stages (Gohan was never the fighting genius his father was, honestly). And if that knowledge didn't matter for SS2 if his raw emotion could trigger it, well, he had already lost everyone he cared about. He would have had to lose someone else and somehow feel more intense emotion that what original sparked his transformation to Super Saiyan. What's more, teen Gohan had the advantage of being a Full-Power Super Saiyan (something else invented by Goku).
4) As far as the hyperbolic time chamber, we don't know what happened to that. Its possible Gohan just never knew about it, or it could have been damaged or destroyed. We never see what happened to Yajirobe or Korin.
We do see Vegeta get stomped by 18 in the present, even after having trained extensively for 3 years straight. The main thing that sets him over the androids in power was his "ascension" to the Ultra Saiyan level. Its possible 13 years of training with just SS1 in his repertoire wouldn't have led to much more progress against the androids than Gohan.
I think a major reason why Gohan never got to the point of being able to overpower the androids is because any training or zenkai boost (this is actually the first time I've heard of this phrase!) would have been relatively minor for his base power level (possibly especially the stronger he got). Powering up to Super Saiyan multiplies that gain, but it all hinges on his base power level. We really see the zenkai boost fade out over time, and I think that might be because its impact lessons once you start getting into those extreme levels of power. Granted, Vegeta and Goku allegedly multiplied their power several fold with this method in the Frieza saga... andidontknowwhy.
Might also have something to do with the severity of near-fatality, and I think Gohan in the earlier years likely fought more guerrilla style to avoid getting killed straight out. His largest wound was obviously the arm, and I think that actually lessened his power level, since it was the type of wound he didn't fully heal from. Idk, I'm just spitballin' ideas as they come to me. I love trying to find explanations for this stuff. Otherwise it bothers me lol.
All that said, its a GREAT question. Those were some good points. I've honestly never really thought about why Gohan didn't naturally become strong enough over time. I think I've always just accepted that SS1 wasn't enough.
future gohan was much older when he first became a SS. add the lack of training with goku and you get a weaker dude. plus, if he had been strong enough to defeat the androids we wouldn't have the story line we know, IE trucks going into the past to change the future.
Lets just guess he was at least 14 years maybe. And had 9 years with super sayian. In my opinion he should at least be stronger than semi perfect cell. In the hyperbolic time chamber he had 1 year of training of training and unlocked his hidden power so id would make no sense at all for him to be that weak but the reason he is so weak is because of the plot and that trunks was going to the present time otherwise i think gohan would have killed them easy.
Future Gohan should have received countless zenkai boosts from his years of battling the androids.
How can he get an impactful zenkai boost if he needs to be in good enough shape to survive after fighting the androids?
Gohan's hidden power isn't like he has the SSJ2 power inside of him regardless of his base strength. His hidden power essentially just allows him to push his power to the limits. It is explained since Gohan is half human, he experiences more intense emotions, but he has a saiyan body. Gohan still has to have formal training and raise his base power if he wants to get stronger. Essentially his hidden power means that even if his base power level is the same as Goku or Vegeta's, he always has more potential, since his emotions are naturally much more intense and he can push his power further. Essentially he has the perfect mix of a hardened tough Saiyan body, combined with powerful human emotion. They seemed to focus the hidden power on Gohan, but it would make sense if Goten and Trunks would have this power too, as both reached SSJ before Gohan, and both are hybrids. Anyways, since this Gohan never trained with Goku in Hyperbolic Time Chamber, where he received a massive boost in his base power, and discovered FPSSJ and advanced SSJ stages that he could only have discovered while training with Goku, his potential was limited. He likely turned SSJ after Piccolo was killed by the Androids or something, but after that he was limited. Sure he could probably still get enraged and become more powerful for brief periods, but his base power was super limited since he would never discover the advanced SSJ levels.
The reason why gohan isn't stronger than he should be is.......the writers fucked up.
Thank you for bringing this up! never thought about it, and yes, after watching this vid, I think this should be considered a plot hole, Gohan should definitely be able to beat the androids after that many years
Half way in the video I can tell you didn't think about this 100%. 1 we don't know exactly how much training he was doing & what kind of training he was doing, at this time gohan only had the training from piccolo which would mean when he did train during the 13yrs he can only train the way he knows how & w.e he training ideas he comes up with not to mention training by himself. He did not have any mentor or someone to train with. He was a kid when everyone was killed who knows how long it took him too actually start training & get the courage to even stand up against the androids, all that aside the reason he never went beyond super saiyan was most likely due to him not knowing there was levels beyond it Goku & Vegeta both theorized there was another level during the cell saga gohan most likely never came to that conclusion. He wasn't stronger because he did not have the knowledge to know how to train effectively & most likely didn't get to do anything too crazy while training so the androids wouldn't find him. He most likely got as strong as he is through zenkia boost.
Present Timeline Vegito Could've Destroyed The Future Androids Hands Down That Is If Vegito Can Stop Fucking Or Dicking Around
The half-saiyans not getting a zenkai boost is a moot point to anyone who has read the the source material, the manga. It is stated openly early in the series, in a conversation between Nappa and Vegeta while on their way to Earth, that unions between humans and saiyans apparently produce an offspring far stronger than a full blooded saiyan offspring. This was also shown continuously throughout the series, most notably with Gohan's progression in power. Gohan has, and always had, the potential to become stronger than his father. Gohan always got lazy once there was no imminent threat however, while Goku trained continuously.
vageta isn't always right with his suggestions. when vageta saw future trunks for the first time he called trunks a fraud and that he is no true super saiyan due to his hair colour. whereas when goku was an infant, we see a blue haired saiyan female amongst the elite saiyans when planet vageta was still intact.
furthermore, is it only me or do people notice king vageta's brown hair?
if king vageta wasn't a pure breeded saiyan then neither would vageta be.
Also Goten, Pan, Trunks, Future Trunks and Bulla did not have any hidden powers. these are all half breed saiyan. My suggestion is that Future gohan did not become stronger because he did not know how to control his hidden powers
You go girl wowww...love a woman who knows her anime!!
meh.... dbz doesn't make any sense.
Dragon Ball did for the most part... but dbz stopped making sense sometime after freeza. GT was even worse... people who should've been OP like trunks and Goten were bitchmade in GT
sigh...
Why should either of them be strong? We''ve seen how strong Trunks was in Cell saga a Trunks that lacks motivation or will to grow stronger won't ever get better than that. Goten too lacked the will to get stronger as seen in the final chapters of the original Z. I don't like GT but for the most part arguments against it aren't well founded
Trunks in Buu saga was all about keeping up with Vegeta while Goten was trying to keep up with Goku and both were each other's rivals trying to best each other. That trunks had Goku and vegeta to look up to and try to surpass as well as Goten his rival.
I've played sports and done martial arts a lot and one of the most motivational things in the world is trying to be as good as a mentor figure as well as maintain on par with a rival.
From the buu saga till GT Trunks still had Goten and Goten still had trunks as well as vegata, gohan and Goku to motivate their training. This trunks isn't the same as future trunks.
In terms of all things competitive I've ever done this is the perfect scenario to get better. Vegeta will want to be better because he wants to surpase goku finally and be better than his son always. But his son will keep trying to get up to his level. Goku just wants to be better and better and Goten wants to be as his dad is and they've got the Goten trunks rivalry.
I just don't see how they're so lame in GT. Doesn't make sense.
I see how Future trunks was kinda lame. He's got the I never met my daddy issues and only a depressed Gohan to train with. All the strongest people he knows of died like Goku and Vegeta. His situation seems hopeless and it's not so great of a motivation like it would be in the other time line.
Nick Jones Hit the nail on the head.
Nick Jones what you have to know is that Future trunks is badass but present kid trunks is a little bitch. future trunks is stronger and his personality is way better that guy lived a fcking hell all his life. kid trunks is just a mommy's kid
I guess this is why kid trunks was a super saiyan and future trunks didn't turn SSJ until somewhere in his late teens... Sure, future trunks is stronger [/sarcasm]
Here I am 8 years later rewatching old videos.
Future Gohan is weaker because of the quality of his training. In the present it was Goku who suggested to master the basic SSJ form, let alone discover the advanced forms of SSJ(Vegeta toyed with the idea in his head but it was Goku who told him it exists.), It was Goku who taught Gohan to use and master his hidden power and push him to the next level. It was Goku who taught him how to maximize his training. In the future he never trained with Goku, never had him there to teach him how to use and truly control his power. He hasn't trained for 13 straight years as he had to hide while training at the same time, his training couldn't have been no where near as intense or as vigorous as present Gohan with Goku in the time chamber do to having to somewhat hide his power from them, as afterall Present Gohan trained for an entire year as a SSJ with SSJ Goku in extreme conditions, Future Gohan didn't have that luxury. Future Gohan can beat them one on one, but both at the same time he had no chance. Realistically he was said to be about as powerful as SSJ Future Trunks when he first went back into the past, whom was weaker then SSJ Goku post Namek.
I agree. What matters more is the quality of your training. You can train for 13 years straight, but if you don't do the right kind of training, you won't get the results your looking for. Like Goku said, torturing your body isn't the same as training.
No. Future Gohan was stronger than both Androids he just lacked a second arm .
Michael Morales He wasn't stronger. Maybe more skilled but not stronger.
No. This is proven since he was able to overpower BOTH of there combined energy waves. The only reason that they won was because they overmatched him in speed when they double teamed him. For example if Goku had one less arm he would still be stronger than both Burter and Jeice but would still lose since he would be overmatched and outnumbered.
Michael Morales In the manga Gohan lost to 17 at half power. Those blasts weren't like full power anyways lol. Gohan even increased his a notch to win.
1.) Gohan was always scholarly, everytime you see him in times of peace he'll stop training and weaken.
2.) No one was around him that was as strong, or stronger to train with.
3.) No access to the hyperbolic time chamber.
4.) Vs Cell he had difficulty accessing his hidden power (and achieving super saiyan 2), it took a LOT of effort and took the death of Android 16 for him to unlock it.
5.) He didn't achieve the saiyan mastery training he got with Goku when he was a kid (staying in super saiyan for days, so the form still drained his stamina).
Now this tidbit I am not sure about, you could say he could've achieved SSJ2 wheneveryone around him died, but if I RECALL he only achieved SSJ when he was training during the android saga? So all his rage probably brought out the first SSJ transformation since he had no reason to believe there was a form beyond 1.
gohan had nobody to train with, so it would take him longer to become a super saiyan
Nobody? What about Trunks?
Detective Hamza Trunks came in far too late, literally a few weeks before Gohan died. That's not enough time for him to gain any significant increase for either of them.
maybe Gohan had no father to train him, and his super saiyin 2 is only provoked by Perfect cell (by android 16)....unless he had different way to ignite his potential, he just remain weak as super saiyin.
But I am not sure whether Piccalo may able to know to ignite his potential....
And the manga never mention Trunks have rised in Supersaiyin2..... except Gotunks SuperSaiyin3
You know what's a real plothole? Why didn't Baba bring back Goku to earth like she did in the beginning of the Buu saga? Goku would've been training in the other world, he would've beat the androids.
***** Goku is farrrrrrrrrrrr stronger than trunks, and while Gohan was training with his father in the time chamber he said it himself "Piccolo told him he was too soft to train gohan" and then gohan told his father not to hold back so it would of been more intense than training with trunks who didn't turn super saiyan till after Gohan died. So yeah.. 7+ years training with a non super saiyan vs training 1 year with the strongest saiyan on the planet was a huge difference don't care how long the time frame was.
My theory on it is that he wasn't continuously fighting the androids over the 13 year period, but rather started to when he was older. While training Trunks, he seems to be amazed on how far he is coming along snd with how quickly he started to get a grip on super saiyan. I think that as you said, he probably didn't reach super saiyan until later in his life. So perhaps he did train hard, but either he didn't train long enough or just tried to keep the androids at bay and focus on saving lives until he was strong enough.
Gohan was chilling with the girls i think ;)
That's right!😎
What's so hard to understand? Gohan has never been a warrior. Gohan is simply blessed with a natural potential, but he isn't skilled enough on his own to tap into it. His biggest power gains came from Piccolo and Goku training him, and sitting on his ass with an old man. His power has always regressed when he is on his own and not aided by another.
+Luno Good point.
Goku Uzamaki Nope. Future Gohan was weak, and likewise so was future Trunks. They aren't warriors like Goku, Vegeta, or even Piccolo who pushes themselves to find new ways to be stronger. He is just born with a natural potential. All his major powerups came from the help of others ie: Piccolo's training, Namekian Elder, Goku's training, and then Old Supreme Kai's magic. Gohan has never shown he can become strong on his own.
Gohan had to train and learn how to go supersayian by himself after Goku died, and his father was always a factor when his hidden powers came to surface...also consider that it could be possible they had to often hide their training or do it quickly so the androids couldnt sense their power, the androids were hunting the z warriors down to some degree......perhaps the zenkai boosts werent enough...vegeta went through multiple zenkai vs Freeza and was still unable to match his power....The real question is where were the Dragon balls and the Lookout/timechamber during the future reality...cant we just resurrect goku or something I mean come on
Piccolo was dead. thus no dragon balls. Goku was dead so no-one buy Mr. Popo knew about the chamber. and we all know Mr. popo don't give a damn lol. only reason i think they didn't go to new namek is cause the androids would probably stop them but then there is no story lol
Good points...but I meant they could have revived goku after he died from the heart virus...which happened b4 the androids...right?...and another point some1 else made was that Goku could have spoke to Gohan through king kai...It really boils down to toriyama etc...
samantha malave The dragon balls cannot revive someone who died of natural causes.
***** a virus isnt necessarily a natural cause
Greg Brooks If you think about it, it kinda is, but I can see how it's debatable. To prevent a long argument thread, I'm just going to guess that the creators think that death by disease is a natural death and we just have to go along with that.
Like Piccolo said, Gohan is not a warrior who thirsts for battle. He also has almost no training experience. Like yeah, Piccolo trained him for 6 months, but it was mostly based around ki control, and learning to power up. He might've taught him basic martial arts, but throughout the Saiyan and Namek Arc, Gohan's strategy was always to blow up with power and brawl with the enemy.
I think that Future Gohan should have at least been a SSJ3, since he was fighting the Andriods and training for 13 years. If Goku reached SSJ2 and SSJ3 through training within a 7 year peroid, then why couldn't Gohan reach the higher level. 17 and 18 shouldn't have been a problem for Gohan.
Future Gohan didn't train with his Dad seeing as he is dead and all
Gohan always had the potential to be the strongest but he stopped training
i heard that toriyama wanted gohan to become the focus after the cell saga but people shot the idea down.
If that did happen, gohan would've been stronger than goku and vegeta i think
icecru2 People never shot the idea down, it was Toriyama himself that discarded this idea and brought Goku back.
no they actually did, fans didnt think it was a good idea
icecru2 www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/majin-buu/
Toriyama originally wanted to go down this route, but didn't see Gohan suitable for the protagonist role compared to Goku.
actually until the last movie gohan was the strongest non fused character in the series
He didn't have anyone to train with so therefore he couldn't increase his strength drastically enough to reach the ssj2 level.
honestly i am even surprised he reached super sajin without goku around
The Broken One He probably achieved Super Saiyan BECAUSE Goku and everyone else died.
***** Well regular gohan was coached to ssj by goku. also in the future timeline goku would have only gone ssj once... unless super 13 also happened in that timeline but i don't think it did. in the future timeline gohan never got to train with goku in the time chamber therefore he had to achieve ssj another way. I would have liked future gohan to be stronger then he was but it makes sense that it took him a decade to achieve ssj. if he had been able to achieve ssj when the z warriors were all killed after 13 years he probably would have been strong enough to beat them.
***** He was able to transform because of children deaths, as he told Trunks. Not the death of the Z warriors- his power would not have developed enough, as he would have just gone on to (after King Cold and Freiza's death) a life of studying under Chi Chi. This Gohan didn't have that training, and honestly, the power to turn ssj. I say power because PL is meaningless (or if you go by Abridged DBZ, bullshit).
Plot purposes. Gohan should have been able to beat the androids.
the 101 because he can't beat the Androids because he was training for so long and I say be strong enough to beat the Androids at least one of them because he is just as strong as one of them but he's but he's not able to take two of them he's just they don't know better or at least Mega Super Saiyan I think I think
k
I have to agree with you, even though I love this film you raise a very good point about Gohan not being as strong as he should have been, Like you said 13 years of training and fighting the Androids where being a saiyan he obviously would become more stronger after every battle you would think he would have been much more powerful than what was displayed in this film. That part was just lazy writing by Toriyama and company.
Maybe he is strong , but fighting two different Androids at the same time pretty damn difficult !!
Your analysis is good but it has some flaws.
I will begin with the original Dragonball Z timeline. In that timeline Trunks comes from the future and warns the Z fighters for the arrival of the androids. Therefore the Z fighters (including Gohan) train for 3 years to prepare for them. As a result of that training Vegeta (and therefore Goku as well) become Super Saiyan with a power equal to that of Android 18. But that only happens because they:
a) have each other to train with and
b) they have the dragonballs which give them a false sense of security
Even though the Z fighters trained like hell for the arrival of the androids they still weren't strong enough to fight them. But by training in the hyperbolic time chamber for 1 year made them strong enough to fight against Cell in his 2nd form. Which means that 1 year in the htc is superior to 3 years wherever (considering Vegeta trained in space).
Now in the future,after the arrival of Frieza, the Z fighters go on with their daily lives thinking that the worst threat is gone. They still have the dragonballs which again gives them a false sense of security (we must note that Vegeta still becomes a Super Saiyan at this time). 3 years later the androids appear and kill the Z warriors one-by-one. With everyone gone Gohan is left alone,so he has noone to train with. Out of the 13 years that you mentioned, Trunks was incapable of fighting for (as an assumtion of kid Trunks in the future,the fact that Vegeta is gone and Gohan isn't as strict as he was and the fact that Bulma didn't want her son to fight) around 8-10 of those years. In other words Gohan had 3-5 years of average training with Trunks, who in fact was holding him back while getting stronger.
You also mention the power-up of the Saiyan blood.Truth be told,after the Frieza saga, that power-up never appears again as the main topic, because the power it gives is now very low in comparison to the SS. So no matter how many times Future Gohan faced the androids, he was just getting beaten up and unable to train until he recovered. And by his attitude I am sure that he spent more of his time hunting the androids and saving people instead of training.
Next topic is Gohan's SS transformation and techniques. We see Future Gohan using the Kamehameha wave, but Goku isn't around to teach him. I can assume that he learned that from Roshi and that he trained with him (that was the best training at that future time). We also hear Future Gohan say about his SS transformation "All I have to do is think about the children" which in facts shows us how he first transformed. This could have happened in any of those 13 years, but again I assume that at the beggining after everyone died, Gohan was hiding so that they wouldn't find him. And the fact that he needs the reminding of that emotion to transform (+ the fact that we see him starting his fights with the androids without being a SS) proves that he hasn't mastered the SS form,making it impossible for him to ascend to the next level.
I guess the last topic should be Gohan's hidden power. In the present time, Gohan unleashes his power when Goku pushes him in the htc and when Cell taunts him.Gohan watches his friends getting tortured,his father fallen to the ground and Android 16's death. In the future, Goku dies from a heart virus and the Z warriors die on one-on-one fights with the androids which means that Future Gohan wasn't present (which also explains why he needs the thought of dead children as a motivation to become a SS instead of the death of his friends). So I suppose that the same thing happens here with his SS: he doesn't unlock his hidden power because he lacks the motivation of protecting his friends. When he protected Trunks, he got injured instantly and I don't believe the androids gave him an opportunity to have a breather.
So to sum it up.Present time Gohan had better quality training,training with Goku and Piccolo and in the htc. Also he had confidence because Trunks told him he was the only one to survive in the future.
Future Gohan had worst quality training,was constanly afraid for his life, running and hiding when he couldn't fight, had less backup to support his confidence.
If anything I think we should say that Future Gohan is really badass,since he could take on both Android 17 & 18 ,while Goku,Vegeta and even the Namek Piccolo could barely fight them one-on-one.
This Theory of comment you posted I have to agree with even though not many would agree I say this one is excactly how I thought why Future Gohan wasn't stronger
This thesis(e) makes a lot of awesome sense.
Except its not like 1 year anywhere is greater than 3 yrs or something.
IN HTC vegeta had a time constrainted motive; beating the androids.
In space he would have been more cocky as he just had future trunks' word on their power and not a live witnessing.
Plus the ss mind state is adrenalinous and reckless. Training after achieving ss is more pushing.
Sidhaarth Ln I don't disagree,but I based the whole "training anywhere else" on the examples we have from outer space.The Saiyans,Frieza's family and troops,Babidi's henchmen and "boss" henchmen were all nothing compared to the Super Saiyans.
Now,the training that Vegeta did in outer space was pretty intense.If you recall he said "I trained to my limits and beyond" and he was already motivated after seeing two Super Saiyans while he still wasn't one.
Last (and again based on the anime) I totally agree that training at a SS is more pushing than training in normal form.
Cyborg 17 stated he used less than half of his power in the Manga to fight him, and kills Gohan in a 1 on 1 fight off screen. Only Animie filler shows him fighting both the cyborgs at once. It can be safe to assume Gohan is no stronger than Frezia considering how weak he is if WEAKER versions of Cyborg 17 and 18 can kill him using less than half their power.
DJYC21215 You can't be actually suggesting that Trunks who killed Frieza so easily was stronger than Gohan...
I believe this was the very video that got me into your stuff dude. Man how time flies. Over years ago. I was still in the middle of High School at that time. What a ride it's been
I can tell everyone here why. Because DragonBall is riddled with plot holes. Akira Toriyama is not a great writer. He made a good action series not a good story. He even admits he forgot about Launch.
He also thought in bog ssj3 was ssj2 how he did that I dnt kno.
goku, piccolo and vegeta gone how is 8 year old gohan meant to know how to train properly. gohan only had two years worth of training before goku had a heart attack.
also its known that vegeta had never powered up so much till he met goku
trunks never powered up so much till he met goku
nobody powered up so much until goku came into their life which is one of the main facts of the story. goku even wanted to die so he wouldnt attract so many strong fighters anymore. when goku died against cell gohan got weaker
even vegeta slowed down in power growth since goku wasnt around. he could only reach ssj2 till the majin mark maxed it out.
look at how strong trunks is while being around goku, piccolo and vegeta. this is the difference
ThepurposeofTime No it is a plot hole. If you want I will point out the flaws in your argument.
go ahead
ThepurposeofTime
It hasn't to do anything with Goku. Trunks could reach alot more Power because he was a year in the Time chamber and non stop practiced. Where in the future he tried severall times to fight the Cyborgs or just couldn't concentrate on practice. Vegeta reached ssj2 and probably was as strong as teen gohan on cell without the Majin stage. With majins stage he outperformance teen gohan ssj2 with ease. Goku also was as strong as Vegeta Majin stages and reached another Level with the Help of being dead. Vegeta wasn't also too far behind in Power against goku without his Majin stage and he was clearly alot behind on cell Saga. The Plot hole is. If everyone died, gohan should rage like he did on Cell and should transform into a Ssj. Which means in the future he should get the Ssj even quicker than on the present. And as far as i know, he had like 17Years time to Practice. Now! Which ome is more unrealistic? 1.Practice one year with goku in a time chamber reaching Ssj and a Power which is more than Double as strong as the Energy of Super Vegeta which was ascendet Ssj form. Or 2.being 17Years a Ssj and Practicing and not even reaching half of the Power of a Super Vegeta. That's the Plot hole. It can't be right. And Gohan should have still his rage left as Ssj his rage allowed him to transform to a ssj2 when he fights them in ssj he should rage again as a (child) and at least hold that energy in him in ssj stage. The cyborgs aren't strong. Cell's first form could outtake them. Ah and by the way. Vegeta Reached after 3 months the next stage which was enough to take second form cell. If gohan can't increase his Power level Twice in 17 Years than i don't know.... Those things happen in manga. When akira made that new story about the cyborgs he just didn't think about a ssj2 yet. He also didn't thought about Cell. Otherwise he would never let Future gohan die in such a strange way or we wouldn't have a ssj2 teen gohan today. And to proove that Dbz has alot of Plot holes. Mystic gohan was so strong that akira had to let him die. When kid boo blow the Planet earth up. He draw that goku saves Satan instead of Mystic gohan which could easely outmatch boo. I'm pretty sure gohan is not dumb enough to get absorbed two times against boo. And yes Mystic gohan was far stronger than ssj3 that's why he had to die. Because it would make no sense to make kid boo as the strongest boo.
everyone hates my accent when i do my dbz videos xD :( is it really that BAD :P - Nice VIDeo bro!!! :D
conspiracy theory gohan as a child seing the androids killing his friends left him with a subconscious limit he actually could be stronger than them he just beleives that he can't beat them so he limits himself
I battled for my little brother, A BIG BROTHER DON'T THINK! I would lose an arm for him just to see him live, anyone of my brothers.
future gohan wasn't stronger simply because it's not about power levels... its clear that it wasn't about power levels when gotten and kid trunks were super saiyans at 7 and gotten says his mom taught him how to do it. it was made clear again that it wasn't about power levels when goku taught gohan how to turn super saiyan then tought gotanks how to turn super saiyan 3. it dosnt matter your power level. its simply a technique that can be taught. future gohan simply didn't know how to reach the next level because he didn't know the technique to do so. its like teaching someone the spirit bomb. its just a fighting technique. its that simple. pushing yourself and training means nothing if you don't know how to reach the next level you never will.. ask vegeta
Nice reason, but I was going to say his arm cut his fighting instincts in half ( I was going to say power lvl but you're right power lvl doesn't matter) if he had both of his arm he would of have a very little chance of winning but will anyways still lose the fight and got away some how, but if he spared with trunks with one arm for a while gohan will get used of fighting with one arm and would've gotten stronger with that one arm and would have survive if he loses, but the androids said they'll kill him if they see him next time they fought, so he wouldn't get away easily, but have a little chance of dieing.
Why didn't he just go to Bulma so he could train in one of those gravity rooms?
Simple, there weren't any other powerful warriors left in the world until Trunks, and it likely took him quite a while to become strong enough to be a good sparring partner.
I thought you defused inside Buu
+Ashton Takhar Heroes never die.
+SuperVegerot Beerus is no there ?
Goku training by himself on his way to Namek in 6 days (six? Six, i guess) increased his power more than 10 times.
Eduardo Ramos At 100x gravity
To be fair to Gohan there are 2 things I have to say.
Firstly how old was he when the Androids attacked anyways? Keep in mind his Father had died not too long before and he was probably in a pit of depression alongside his mother. When the Androids attacked he probably wasn't even involved with the battle at all and only saw the aftermath.
Secondly can you guarantee that Gohan spent ALL 13 years training? He probably unlocked Super Saiyan after hearing/witnessing Piccolos death (considering the remaining characters I think his death is the only thing that could turn Gohan SSJ) but I don't think he'd have gone straight "I need vengeance" plot line like Bardock did.
Personally I think every encounter with the androids was him just trying to repel them and run away, I mean Gohan didn't have much of a reason to fight outside of revenge (which I don't think Gohan wouldn't have done) and his remaining family was safe so he didn't have anyone to really fight for. I think he DID start training properly once he met Trunks (keeping in mind that Trunks was already SSJ when they met in the manga). Seeing Trunks probably ignited something in Gohan and gave him hope for actually defeating the Androids.
I'd say the reason Gohan wasn't stronger wasn't lazy writing (well not especially), it was probably depression.
Let's just say Gohan was living with the heart disease his father had.
Makes sense but why didn't he show symptoms
firsty when the other z fighters died gohan had no master so he diddnt have a goal to achieve unlike vegeta or goku had secondly only goku and kami and Mr popo had knowledge about the hyperbolic time chamber
I guess that training with Goku was really important.
That's why you're wrong. Without his father training him and the hyperbolic time chamber, he will never reach his potential to become ssj2. Goku dies fighting against Android 19 and gohan never learned ssj at that time.
Why Wasn't Future Gohan Stronger? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE WRITTERS WANTED, there's not mistery here
In other words, "Magic" :/
future gohan is not a fighting genius like goku...yes picolo train gohan more than goku before the androids were coming....look when picolo go to hyperbolic time chamber(present time) picolo got an enormous power but not as strong as goku ...btw hyperbolic time chamber has a different gravity with earth so that's the point
higaliga104 u forget that he has those senzu beans so he had to went in the hyperbolic time chamber some how why wouldn't he
karmst1996 Some how I doubt it. Plus, even if he were to use it, it'd more than likely be only himself training. Remember, SS puts a higher strain on the body, so more than likely if he were to use it, it'd be him at base vs Trunks at base at the time which wouldn't be much since more than likely, Trunks wouldn't be able to keep up....not to mention that Trunks would have been waaay too young (not everyone is a prodigy like Gohan and Goten). Goku and Gohan trained at SS constantly making for even more progress. I say given more time and the chance, Future Gohan and SS Trunks would take the opportunity. Still odd that at least Korin didn't mention it (if he was still alive), and if Dende was around..There wasn't enough time to make training advantageous in the end.
XTREEMMAK Sidetrack you forget there was no dende... goku gets dende after piccolo fuses with kami.. which doesnt happen in future timeline.
At the end of the day we all love dragon ball z for the concept, the fighting and the powering up but Toriyama i hate to say, just isn't the best writer which is really the only thing that ever holds back dbz. As a kid it's easy to gloss over the plot holes but in the end there are so many inconsistencies and "should have beens" in the series it's mind boggling especially when it reaches the buu saga. We just have to take it for what it is.
goku died from virus ... so he didnt trained gohan in chamber ... thats reason why he wasnt strong ...
Or we can blame it on chi chi studying and shit made him waste time he could have used to train.
^_^ Thanks Chi chi saving one world one egg at a time (Buu~ saga reference)
DUDE!. Future Gohan trained for 13 years. Teen Gohan spent 1 year in the time chamber. Yeah, he just didn't have a proper training with Goku so he wasn't able to unlock his full potential.
i was thinking about that yesterday, thanks for the video
No Cell pushing him to get stronger, no master, no one to die and give him a big emotional boost, and doesn't know that there are Super Saiyan levels beyond SSJ. This last one is probably the main reason, in the way that the other Saiyan characters couldn't go Super Saiyan until Goku proved it was real and what it looked like, then it became a goal for them. I mean, Vegeta thought at one point he had reached Super Saiyan when he was still in his base form, mostly because he didn't know how Super Saiyan worked. Without knowing about ASSJ, USSJ, SSJ2, etc and without anyone to guide him there, that's probably why he wasn't stronger.
+SelfAwarePedant Cell Was Pushing Gohan To Go Further Beyond His Capabilities
+SelfAwarePedant Gohan don't need to go beyond SSJ to kill those Androids... Remember Gohan was already way stronger than Trunks in a simple SSJ1 in cell episode, and this same Trunks killed both android without a sweat. Actually, if you remember the discussion they had in the plane before the tournament, the weak not trained Gohan from buu episode is probably already stronger than C-18 without turning SSJ ^^
Bertrand Rongé I Wonder If The Future Trunks Now Would've Went Way Back To Age 780 To Prevent Future Gohan From Fucking Himself Over
the hyper bolic time chamber had little to nothing to do with gohans true strength. It was his anger that makes his power explode out of him. The anger would have been massive with every body being killed. Gohan would destroyed everybody.
I think this future gohan's power level is near to Picollo's after he fused with God and fought against 17
No, it was far below that. The androids in trunks' timeline were weaker than the ones in the actual timeline. As stated by trunks. He would most likely be around goku fight freeza level of super saiyan.
Sephing
No you are severely wrong. Go look up power levels.......
Johann D'Souza Power levels cannot be used because they have literally no meaning in the show. The only reason they were introduced was to show how unreliable and meaningless they were by having the enemies constantly underestimating them.
It can't be, as Trunks states that the androids in the timeline we follow are stronger than the ones in his own timeline. This coupled with the fact that Gohan can't fight against the androids, granted, it's usually 2 vs 1, on an equal footing shows that they are stronger than he is.
It all comes down to one very specific scene in DBZ, the death of Android 16. Whenever Gohan fights he always holds back because he is a peaceful person, even when people are killed in front of him he does not want to kill anyone himself. Now translate that to the future arc and the fact he never met Android 16, thus was never given the speech on how there are just some people who cannot be talked to. He was ALWAYS holding back against the androids so no matter how powerful he truly was he would never use that power because of his gentleness. Now you may say "But his emotions....." As we see in both Future arc and actual DBZ, as Gohan got older he became better at controlling his emotions (Cell saga when he didn't explode in emotion at the defeat of his friends for instance) thus meaning he would not always, and actually as he got older, ever, lose control and blindly attack. This is due to him maturing but also his training with Piccolo, Goku, and the countless battles he saw.
The reason future gohan isnt as strong is because his father wasnt around and neither were his friends so he was never getting much stronger AND he didnt EVER fight cell in future :P
Also Trunks isnt all hes cracked up to be in the future because goten wasnt around and that was what pushed him to become a SSJ at a very young age :P :P :P :P :P
***** why the fuck do you guys care so much
jose cardenas garcia BECAUSE ITS IMPORTANT!!
Aaron Beach
The Irony was that Future Trunk is stronger than Normal Trunk. Yep, because peace.
I LOVE DRAGON BALL Z!!! THE BEST JAPANESE CARTOONS EVER!!! THUMBS UP IF YOU AGREE!!!
since gohan is half saiyan he gets half zenkai but still he should able to get stronger than androids and master super saiyan form
lol
Actually I think he gets full zenkai
He cant master his Super Saiyan form because he doesnt know that is even possible. Plus he needs guidance in his training because the type of training that Gohan does know wont push him very far.
he may dont know he can master super saiyan but come on he was super saiyan all this time and he should have mastered it without knowing it and you may be right about guidance
So? He still needs proper training to get to that level. Its obvious that training Gohan was in isnt making him that powerful seeing as how Future Gohan is weaker then Goku after he came back from Yardrat (Stated in the manga).
It's all sake of the plot basically, it had to involve Trunks.
If it was written properly, Future Gohan would've defeated 17-18 within few years after all the Z Fighters have died at most. After a few serious beatdowns, Gohan would gradually be more powerful enough to take them on. But then Trunks wouldn't really be involved in the story since he'd still be a toddler