This air vs coil comparison surprised me!
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- čas přidán 18. 12. 2023
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How To: Airtime Bike Control / how-to-air-time-92051562
Riding Techniques for your Feets: / ridings-for-your-89999826
How to Ride in Summer Time Dust: / trust-me-its-88585343
Corners are jumps, change my mind: / corners-are-my-86987274
4 (and ½) Summer Riding tips: / 4-5-summer-tips-85207251
How to Hit New Jumps: / hitting-new-and-83883299
Berm line choice: / line-choices-for-82322348
How to ride like a pro (and not a squid): / how-to-ride-like-80864886
How to MANUAL: / how-to-manual-my-79363708
Wet weather riding tips: / wet-weather-tips-78055037
How to ride ROUGH corners: / how-to-ride-76582910
50 tips to be a better mountain biker: / 50-tips-to-be-75352100
How to land jumps: / how-to-land-74063598
How to ride steep trails: / how-to-ride-72705363
How to sprint without pedaling: / how-to-sprint-71580461
How to ride flat corners: / how-to-ride-flat-68552084
How to jump found gaps: / 67255256
How to stoppie turn: / 65842496
How to drop: / 64552391
How to LEAN in corners: / how-to-lean-in-63176556
How to Ride Light on the Bike: / how-to-ride-on-61941975
Riding technique differences between hardtails and full suspension: / 60435182
How to rut track: / 59366938
5 tips to make flat trails more fun: / 58058983
5 tips to improve bike control and balance: / 56839920
How to levitate out of corners: / 55607066
Three simple cornering tips: / 54371316
How (and when) to rock roll or drop: / 53126562
How to jump with fluidity- and not DEAD SAILER! / 51914476
How to Lanual: / 50695443
How to climb ledges without a bunny hop: / 49476021
Which brake to use when: / which-brake-to-48108425
Different bikes, different riding techniques: / 46925782
How to ride FLAT PEDALS through the ROCKS: / how-to-ride-flat-45662347
How to ride wet roots and steep chutes: / 44507851
How to ride with style: / how-to-ride-with-43349450
How to jump for height vs distance: / 42202183
Common manual questions answered: / 41006264
How to land jumps: / 39928153
My 3 favorite skills drills: / if-i-could-only-38809964
How to manual: / how-to-manual-37684861
Cutty: / 36579859
Manual a berm: / 35496772
How to ride in Sedona: / 34436065
Switchbacks: / 3-ways-to-33345804
Nosewheelie: / 32742504
Bump jump: / 31881231
Trials basics for trail riders: / 31145344
Tight berms: / 30389457
Aggressive braking: / 29579507 - Krátké a kreslené filmy
![It’s Embarrassing, But These 3 “Reverse” Drills Guarantee ENDLESS Manuals [ACTUALLY URGENT]](/img/n.gif)
Thanks for the video Jeff
Thx for some of the best MTB content out there. BTW you've convinced me to get a Rise, then to add a Rallon next to it and got me to get an LMNT subscription all in one year, keep it up!
Love the videos! Congrats on reaching 100k subs
Thanks Logan, atmospheric river rats 2 was sick!
Agreed!!!
11:01 even the jumping movements he makes with his hands are sick lol!
I switched from air to coil on my v1 Megatower and the difference was also very noticeable. Lots of chunk here in Phoenix and the coil just feels so much better. Way more traction and "under control" in the real rough stuff. I have a new Orbea Wild now and am pretty curious to try one out on it as well.
Nice vid, I think it would be helpful to address the progression rate of the suspension linkage, spring rates and damper setup. Otherwise, it may be possible to setup the coil shock like the air and vice versa, especially now that progressive coil springs are available. If you want to do a more apples to apples comparison of air vs coil, you should attempt to make the spring and damper setup identical, and then see if you can even tell the difference between the two. I bet you can't! 😃Ok, maybe a little bit... I bet Fox would be willing to do that for you, it would take a shock dyno to get the shocks setup as close to one another as possible.
@jeff - to elaborate on this, it would have been interesting to see the stock setup (volume spacers removed) on the Float over the DHX
Yeti's newest tunes for both the X2 (2024) & DHX2 are the exact same damper tune!
Getting an avalanche tuned bomber over the winter and the smashpot is currently in the mail, can't wait!
LMNT is great! I've been using it for while now.
The first couple of trails you hit looks so much fun
They are! PinkBike has done a lot of videos there.
I run a Rockshox Super Deluxe Ultimate with a Sprindex spring. That way I can do small adjustments if I want it to be a bit softer or a bit stiffer 👍🏻
AMAZING segue into that LMNT promo 🤙🏼
Hahaha thanks!!! Big thanks to LMNT for their support. A little BTS info, I was worried the intro bit was feeling too "capitalist," and actually moved the LMNT integration earlier into the vidto just get all the formal stuff over and done with asap. Hopefully it wasn't too clunky to watch!
So coil for rough stuff, air for pumpy melow stuff, X2 for maximum service expenses
I tested a Fox DPX2 Performance Elite (MY-2020) back to back against a RockShox SDLX Coil (MY-2017) that I got from a friend. I ran both on my GT Force at 24% sag. I found the coil to be better everywhere aside from quickly transitioning between corners. The coil felt significantly better on jumps surprisingly. It felt extremely consistent off of lips and I was actually getting more height and distance on my usual trails.
Good content. 👍🏼
Thanks Tap!!
Great video. Jeff I hope you do a Christmas video. That would be cool to see.
Oh that would be fun! Shoot, I didn’t think about it tho 😢
@@JeffKendallWeed you can film a Christmas video today. You still got time 5 days till Christmas. You are JKW you can do it.
Love my SDLX coil, but I have never run an air shock (newish to the big wheels). This makes me want to try air
I have a levo with air shock that I love to ride smooth jump trails, i also have a yt decoy with a coil, and i ride rocky terrain.
The timing on this video is incredible! I just took the Float X2 off my SB160 (very underwhelming, possibly something wrong) and installed the Ohlins TTX22 M2 and I couldn’t believe how much more I like the coil on this bike. I thought it would make the bike feel dead but I was completely wrong.
NICE upgrade Anderson! I think Yeti specc'd too firm of a shock tune on the stock X2 that comes with the SB160. That, and the actual shim valving on the Ohlins shocks is IMO a great upgrade over the poppet valves on the X2. My experience of TTX Air vs X2 vs DPX2 on the Evil Offering ended up in a HUGE win for the TTX! Anyhow, I'll toss my "secret sauce shock" on the SB160 soon, will be fun to see how that compares!
favourite coils? @@JeffKendallWeed
@@JeffKendallWeed push 11/6 maybe!
@@JeffKendallWeed I’m fortunate to live near an excellent suspension tuner (Revolution Factory Suspension) and he certainly prefers Ohlins. I look forward to the “Secret Sauce” video for sure! I have always thought that you would benefit from working with a good suspension tuner. Fluid Focus in California is doing some excellent work as well.
Agree with the two modes, pop or smash. Coils that are too soft will not jump nearly as well, but getting the exact right spring weight on coil is a lot harder. Of course a coil that is too stiff will be brutal on you. I think the new Cane Creek coil with air progression might be a good mix, might be worth a test. Slamming all the tokens in air shock made me chuckle, that 160 bike probably rides like a shorter travel version with that much ramp up.
I did the same on my evil, sadly I couldn’t do the back and forth you did here
But I noticed improvements everywhere
The little amount of pop lost with the coil is surpassed by the feeling when landing on rough terrain on the coil. It’s just amazing
I really liked the Ohlins TTX air shock on my Offering, but the bike in general was more linear than I really wanted. But still, a fun bike! Had great traction!
@@JeffKendallWeed yeah went from the stock x2 to a push on my offering v2
But I jump way smaller stuff than you do
For techs trails is just amazing
And play around with rocks and roots
Great comparison video with somewhat expected results. I'm guessing other the shock you've got is the Cane Creek Coil/Air Hybrid thing which will be interesting to see how it compares!
Ohhh man I wish I had that new Liger shock from Cane Creek! Looks super interesting! The other shock is from a California based manufacturer... and has made a sneak peek on the channel already... FWIW, I was NOT at all expecting to prefer the coil- I've always preferred air stuff in all previous comparisons (Orbea Occam, Bomber forks, Firebird, etc).
Just got the canecreek tigon coil /air shock on my specialized 2020 . You guys have got to try it and do a review on it 😊
@@JeffKendallWeed dvo?
@@JeffKendallWeed have you spent any time on a progresive coil? I wonder how they feel.... I'm coil curious but really don't want to loose that sweet "pop"
Jeff, clearly one factor that made the X2 challenging on the steep gnar is the four volume spacers you loaded in there. Take two out and it would be much closer to the DHX2. I run both shocks on my Firebird and the cool thing about the air shock is that you can tune it with spacers and rebound to feel very close to a coil, especially with the 2024 X2.
Great video as always! Love the added editing. 😂 Now you need to try a Push 11-6 with two settings. One for the steep and chunk and flip it to the other setting for the flow trails to see if it can serve the two masters!
Thanks Burke!
One thing rarely mentioned is that for a bigger rider coil works better than air. There is just not enough volume in air shocks to really tune them when you are upwards of 210lbs.
I thought air would of been better for heavier riders
@@philwebb606 you have to put so much pressure into the shock that it ramps up super quick. It's not nice
@@SwordFighterPKN I have the ohlins ttx but have been think about a coil on the rear, at 106kg I’m not sure I’d get away with if using the coil
@@philwebb606 - coils are great. But figuring out which weight of coil to use is a PITA.
I'd be interested in you comparing linear coil vs progressive coil vs air.
Like a sprindex / mrp / canecreak valt spring? That would be cool to see
Jeff, on the Coil do you find yourself using the lockout lever more than on the air shock when pedaling uphill? Btw great content as always!
My love for hucking and my hatred for servicing have a push and pull effect on wether i want air or coil. I mostly run coil shocks where I run them around 27.5% SAG and crank the low speed compression for hucking. Works for me but your milage may vary.
Take the volume spacers out of the X2 (leave one at most), and try it on those steep chunky trails again. Much more coil like without all the tokens.
I already rode it before adding extra reducers- it was too stuck to the ground for my tastes. I have a hunch the native tune in that X2 is too firm.
@@JeffKendallWeed This seems the case for a lot of setups, most tunes seem to be too firm.
I’ve run coil shocks on all my bike since the mid 90’s The majority of my riding was while stationed in HI and the PNW. Not until purchasing my Intense Carbine in SoCal did I experience air shocks, looking to ditch the DVO air for a DVO coil in the future. Just feel the ride is better for what I like to do.
Would love to see/hear your thoughts on the Tigon for the 160.
Thanks for the comparison. This gives an overview of both technologies. I own an Ibis HD3 fitted with an air shock, but i am thinking about giving an update with a coil one. But I've heard this Ibis suspension generation is not suitable for coil shocks. It is a story of leverage ratio if I well understood. What is your opinion?
If you like the suppleness and consistency, but want a coil shock to be poppy, try either:
- a progressive coil spring
- making the high-speed rebound much faster by changing the internal shimstack of the HSR circuit because that effectively feels similar to the explosive rebound power a compressed progressive spring is generating
Hi Jeff, I have an SB150 and have been adding volume spacers to the factory X2 to give it a bit more pop. Thinking of getting a coil as a spare/enduro race set up. I’m 5’ 9” and weight about 180 lbs. any recommendations on spring rate for the coil? Also considering a cascade link to add 5mm of travel and a bit more progression. Thoughts?💭
Hi Jeff, test please new RS Vivid
OK already, Jeff. I'll try LMNT 😅
Have you tried a coil fork on modern enduro bikes? I had one on my Specialized enduro and now have one on my stump-jumper now. I feel thay are better but i would like to see one of your videos on it. Thanks for the great vid!
sounds like you need to try a progressive spring on a coil shock and the RS Vivid. I mean I need you to so I know which to get 😎😆
Great subject matter. I have been on DHX2 coil on my Yetis since the 2019 Sb150. One caveat is using a "progressive" type coil spring versus the "linear" Fox springs. on the Yetis. I use a Cane Creek Vault Progressive Spring. It would be interesting to try this comparison to get your thoughts. 👊🤘
So, may I ask you. What is the difference in the progressive coil vs the stock or linear? Does it simply mean the coil is stiffer on the progressive coil and the linear is softer to compress?
@travelthenarrows yes ..progressive springs become stiffer the more you compress the spring..
@@briangong007 Thanks Brian, thats what I was thinking. Sounds like I may need to try one on the Yeti.
I very slightly “over sprung” the dhx2 on my Rallon. After doing that and playing with the settings, I don’t blow through travel, don’t have harsh bottom outs, and it’s still a very efficient climber.
That's one way to do it! A lot of pro racers use that trick too, going stiffer (less sag) and running a little less damping. I have more fun with more normal sag, but more support avail at the end. I'm also riding in a pretty different way than most racers- trying to jump, rather than trying to go fast! I didn't mind the stock Float X on my Rallon, though I did go to more volume reduction as usual.
Bro, you are the undisputed king of volume spacers! You get more air on jumps than Michael Jordan ever did! Do you run anti gravity sealant in your tires?! 😎
How are you liking the dropframe ? I remember you couldn’t review it last time due to sizing
90% of us wish, we could ride like this. 1 miss doing jumps like this thru the trees can change one's whole life style.
Ive ridden dirtbikes on a competitive level for years, they have tried to make air shocks work on dirtbikes, and air forks.
The heat is impossible to get away from, shock heats up, shock gets stiffer. On motorcycles.
The modern air shocks and forks on mt bikes work amazingly well compared to efforts of years past.
And of course weight is a huge thing is why air suspension dominates.
My X2 is actually about an once heavier than my Bomber CR with Fox Orange coil.
Ha! Go figure- that was not my experience at all. When I weighed them for the Firebird video, it was nearly a 230 gram difference. 627 for the X2 vs 860 for the DHX. czcams.com/video/xQGp-8KNawQ/video.htmlsi=kEbAbXjFEJjos4Nj&t=119
I like the lower maintenance and improved suppleness of coil. Sprindex springs are great, since you have a 10-15% spring rate tuning window, and they’re progressive. Some frames really should have a Cascade Components link to push over 20% kinematic progression if using coil, IMO. But, also depends what fork you have and how you ride.
LMNT is great! Just don’t like their spicy flavors lol. The chocolate is actually pretty good!
Next shock review for the yeti, 5th Element, vs 6 Way Swinger!
Next shocks to try: that are not the norm:
EXT Storia Lok V3(I got one), Öhlins TTX22m.2, Push ElevenSix, Fast Fenix, Formula MOD. I see EXT is gained popularity fast, but still not the norm.
Vivid Air is my guess on your next Sb160 shock...
Would love to see a fight between Rulezman & Jeff :D :D :D
woulg like to see a comparision of the x2 set up more coil like! less tokens....or middle to get some pop and plow?
It took me a while to realize that an X2 stuffed full of tokens can really feel like shit. Removed tokens and feels great again. Definitely more coil like and still poppy. Depends on how rough or smooth the trail is though. With tokens on smooth flow and jumps feels fine stuffed with tokens, feels like crap on rougher trails though. Set up to suit.
Not on the SB160. I rode it stock for a few weeks (comes with 2 reducers already in there) and wasn't gelling with my jumping style. Going to 4x helped immensely. However, I do have a hunch that the valving in Yeti's stock X2 is a bit too firm. The aftermarket DHX they sent was likely valved more open. Both had clickers set up about the same.
This confirms why DH bikes run coils a ton. You can set up an Air shock to give you a bit more of a coil feel but it's never quite as good for fast DH riding. Always feels a bit pingy to me when you still wanna have some pop but still soak up and maintain grip of fast chunk. I run airshock on my Enduro bike for the lockout and coil on the DH bike.
So what I have learned is that i should bring a second shock along and swap it out depending on the terrain...😜
Great video!
🤣 cheers Brian!!!
OK, now show us your new Rockshox Vivid shock. Will be interesting to see that.
My plan is to get a coil when my X2 eventually poops itself, having 2 shocks is definitely useful.
Next shock has to be that new cane creek with the airchamber on a could shock
Did Cane Creek just made a shock that's both air and spring? It would be more interesting to see the whole set with fork spring too. Air fork and rear suspension vs Spring fork and rear suspension. Probably need to mix it up too, coil fork and air rear suspension and vice versa. For next year video I guess. And probably do a review on the new DVO 38 fork while you're at it. It could make a 4 part video and good youtube shorts or tiktok.
Hola Jeff,
Just to know,
What coil(lbs?) & settings(sag, Lsc Hsc…) did you try?
Gracias!
I prefer the durability and suppleness of a coil ,I have never found an air fork or shock that I like the feel off.
You stalking me Jeff? I just received a DHX2 for my SB160, talk about great timing with the video!
You're going to LOVE that shock! Big upgrade for the SB160!!! Congrats!
@@JeffKendallWeed ❤️
Anyone know where this was filmed?
Aren't you the guy that did a video on manuals? If so, is there any way I could get some advice on a bike that makes that front lift easier?
It seems like I'm struggling to get the bike up and back since modern geometry has tipped everyone so far forward. It's it just me? Or is a more playful bike a reasonable thing to ask for?
something with shorter chain stays, shorter reach, taller stack
Just discovered Nuun is owned by Nestlé so Ill be giving LMNT a try now.
try the new vivid and superdeluxe coil on it and compare all of them
Looking to have the polygon collosus to be review
Maybe one day?
You HAVE to try the EXT Storia V3 coil shock! Total game changer! It is just as poppy as an air shock and still as supple and gives you all the traction of any coil shock on the market. Plus it weighs 200g less than most coil shocks, basically same weight as the X2 at around 700g. So no weight penalty! I've ridden it side-by-side to the Fox DHX, DHX2, and X2. It takes all the best attributes and combines into one. EXT Storia V3 for the win! 😉
Hmm maybe I will put a coil shock on my Spur since it has 30 percent progression which I think is too much. Might calm the bike down.
Sold me at "Bro points at the parking lot" :D
I wonder what it would've been like if you went down to maybe 2 volume spacers in the air... make it more linear.
Jeff, do you ever plan on trying the We Are One Arrival? I think you would dig it!
I wanted to!!! Was trying to get up to kamloops, but it never worked out.
@@JeffKendallWeed Ripmo was also my favorite and I just kept coming back to it, but this arrival is just more exciting. Even though it has more aggressive numbers it's just as quick on the pedals. I'd make it a priority for sure, great stuff👊🏼
Next video... Can I get the Float X2 to feel like the Coil!? 🤔
Personally, I think coil shocks are more complicated to set-up and buy the right spring rate.
Not really the range Is small and you can buy the sprindex which is adjustable
What about climbing between the two?
No real noticeable difference
feels like it would have been more helpful and informative setting the shocks up so that they perform identically on a dyno and then mounting them on the bike to compare so you can isolate the differences between coil vs air and not different setups.
Shocking the coil had more control than the air shock packed full of volume spacers to a 110mm of travel ha
Volume reducers have nothing to do with amount of travel. The more I've thought about it, and the more feedback I've got from other SB160 owners, it seems the stock Yeti X2 shock has an unusually stiff compression tune from the factory. The DHX was a simple aftermarket tune, much more open, and that's likely why it felt as good as it did.
@@JeffKendallWeed I guess I mean usable travel. If the shock ramps so quickly and gets harsher quickly the rest of the travel is pretty useless and why ricocheting off routes and rocks minimal traction compared to coil. Set up is key.
what helmet is that????
Fox Dropframe. I have a medium sized 58cm head- which means I need a frigin XL drop frame 😳 goofy sizing on that helmet
yada yada yada
I dont care about weight i dont do crazy stunt no jump no off road all i do is daily riding for deliveroo for 17 hours a day all i want is comfort like I'm sitting in benz S class when going over normal road bump or hole so really not sure to get for my ebike my bike and it can take 155mm rear air or coil
I bet it took ages to shoot this video. This trail is so steep, pushing your bike all the way to the top again must have been exhausting. Thanks for the insights. As for the shock guesses.... You should try an EXT Aria. No need for volume reducers anymore and you can fine tune it in every way possible.
Thanks for watching all the vids lately man- got a sweet one posting tomorrow too! Yeah it was a bit of hiking, but not tons more than usual... The trail was so fun that it was all worth it! I was just thankful to be out riding my bike on a non-rainy day hahaha! Also a bonus that the coil shock was, for once, better than the air shock. That was a cool surprise!
A coil surprise you meant. :D @@JeffKendallWeed
So, for the overwhelming majority of riders, the coil is better.
Rigid please.
One theory I have is that short rear travel bikes work really well with coil shocks. They still stay playful and poppy
I just put a coil shock on my Trek Fuel Ex 160/140 and it’s quite a bit more capable now compared to air shock
As a suspension tuner - there is nothing like an EXT my friend. Light years from a dhx2.
Progressive coil...... problem solved 😂
thumbs up for "terrible," but really incredible, joke
Hahaha that's the spirit!
waterproof jackets for riding in humid wet places make literally no sense to me. I would rather be wet with rain than sweat. I don't get it all. For sub-zero really cold temperature, I get it but otherwise i think the whole rain tech world is kind of a scam.
First
i was first
Im the real first
Those chapters look a bit out @JeffKendallWeed
Thanks McPhee! I’ll update the description some day 😂