Discussion | Maurice by E.M. Forster
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2014
- I spend quite a bit of time talking about one of my favourites, E.M. Forster's Maurice.
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I just finished watching Maurice the movie. And I am here in 2021. Just two years ago India decriminalized homosexuality which England did more than 50 years ago. There are so many maurices living out in the world and so much to do in terms of LGBT rights throughout the developing world. 🙏🏼 *Love you Maurice* ❤️
Thank you. I was the screenwriter of the brave film adaptation. I wish I'd seen, Jason, this brilliantly incisive discussion before the undertaking. Carpenter should have been invoked, somehow. It is a beautiful and historically important novel. And for those of you who see this, don't let Jason's own beauty distract you. What he says is more important.
Thank you so much. I read Maurice the year after it was published, I was 15. It was the source of my courage to live my authentic life. Only a few books have touched me as Maurice has.
I love Maurice, it was the first classic novel I read that actually introduced me to the idea that classics could be heartbreaking and beautiful and have me frantically turning the pages rather than sitting bored behind a desk while a teacher pointed out natural imagery. I always loved that Maurice isn't a saintly portrayal of this tortured misunderstood soul. He's grumpy and snobbish and crappy to his sisters and it makes him much more important, it would have been easy to make Maurice Hall to homosexuality as Oliver Twist was to the Working Class: to idealise his character into absurdity to make the reader more sympathetic to him but instead Forster presents him as a human being, the kind of person the reader would be surrounded with every day. The 1987 film is good too, obviously it doesn't have the depth of the book but if nothing else baby Rupert Graves is an adorable Alec.
I feel like people don't realize that Clive was already broken even before he met Maurice, even before Greece when he makes a choice. While Maurice is only faintly aware of his urges, Clive knew from a young age and suffered for it. Clive is deeply religious, sensitive and an intellectual who turned all this conflict and the hatred of the world towards men like him, inwards.
At age 16 he had a mental breakdown and had to be removed from school. "At first he thought God must be trying him, and if he did not blaspheme would recompense him like Job. He therefore bowed his head, fasted, and kept away from anyone whom he found himself inclined to like. His sixteenth year was ceaseless torture. He told no one, and finally broke down and had to be removed from school."
Clive thinks he is damned. "It should not ever become carnal" This is why he keeps his relationship with Maurice platonic. Clive had a lonely existence. He kept to his books and music and never let anyone close for fear of corrupting another boy... that is until Maurice. The sad thing is, even when they were happy, that torture never ceased for Clive.
Thanks for your discussion video. One of my favourite novels too. I think it's sad that Forster only wrote one more novel after this, largely because he felt he had run out of steam writing about heterosexual love, but wasn't able to publish anything other than this. He also knew (probably rightly) that if he had given the novel a tragic ending, the novel might have been published, as the "wicked" would have been punished. But as you point out, he wasn't willing to do this. Cheers for your video and sorry I'm only finding it 6 years late! :)
Very good recap of an emotionally shattering novel. Seeing the movie was a life changer for me. It helped me in my struggle to find my way as a gay man. Happy to report that things have gone well. Thank you E.M. Forster for writing a story to help with the blueprint.
Hey there! It was so interesting how subtle the writing is. What's happening is clear but the language isn't overtly explicit. It just shows how challenging it must have been for him to write, maybe even in private. I could be wrong, I read it about five years ago. But it was definitely great to read a novel about a homosexual relationship set during that time.
I am getting emotional at this video. I picked up this book at the library on a whim after you mentioned it in a haul video ages ago, and I've been meaning to thank you for it. It is the most impactful book I've read this year and kicked me out of a reading slump. It means a lot to me to see male homosexuality as something reaching so much further back than myself, and to know that (though not perfect) I live in a world where I can reasonably hope to attain things which were simply impossible just a century ago. I ache for the real-life repressed Clives of this world, for the Maurices and Alecs who have had to escape society because of love. I am grateful to Forster for writing so frankly about gay love even though it was unpublishable at the time, and I'm also grateful to you for bringing it to my attention.
I just discovered Maurice (and Forster) maybe a few weeks ago and just have to say thanks for this lovely discussion. I have a tendency to fall down a rabbit hole with anything I get interested in, and it's nice to watch someone clearly enjoying his way of communicating emotions as much as I have been. Sort of like having a friend to agree with me for 14 min so I can give my actual friends a reprieve from me babbling on about it. Anyway, nice job!
Going down a rabbit hole is a lot of fun with adventures galore in store. "Go ask Alice, when she's 10 feet tall. And if you go chasing rabbits, and you know you're going to fall..."
I love Maurice. One of my favourite classics!
I really appreciate this video to be honest with you I’m not much of a book reader but the way you discuss Maurice really makes me want to read the book. I am a huge fan of the film. It’s one of my favorite films of all time especially gay films. It saddens me that Forster could not publish this book when he was alive due to the societies homophobia I can only imagine what he went through during his life. I’m very intrigued by edward Carpenter and his partner George Murrell I wish more to be discussed about their relationship because they were in an open relationship for 40 years incredible for the era in time. The story of Maurice has made such a deep impact on me it’s a story I will never forget
Uh, easily the best discussion video I've ever seen. Well done! Will be reading tons of Forster now.
I haven't read the book , but saw the film when I was 19 really spoke to me and helped me come out :)
I haven't read the book yet. I definitely want to. I have seen the movie. It is a poem, so powerful! I had no idea about the subject and the events that followed when I began to watch the movie. I planned to watch it because I had just recently discovered "Call my by your name" gem by James Ivory and decided to follow his relevant work. Maurice is even better the score, the cinematography everything. Towards the end of the movie I was praying and shouting inside "Please please let there be a happy ending, this one deserves a happy ending" and it did! They shan't be parted.
I've got to say this movie is in my favorites. It was definitely before its time.
I definitely need to read the book
Great interpretation of this novel (Maurice), Mr. Purcell.
I saved this to watch after I had finished the book. I also found it heartbreaking, but I also appreciated the happy ending. Thanks for reading the terminal note too, my audiobook edition didn't have that. This is definitely my favourite Forster novel so far. Great discussion :)
having discovered the novel about a century ago {well, 1987} and falling in love with the Maurice/Alec partnership - even more so in the film version - it's lovely to hear your discussion of it, so many years on... makes me want to read it yet again!
Good Lord, I can't believe this video is 4 years old! I've been thinking about your thoughts and the things you shared about this book for as long as that? Time is fake, vile, and miraculous! - I very recently read this (I've been patiently waiting to find it second hand or on audio book all this time, after watching your video) and absolutely, absolutely loved it. Thank you so much for sharing this book. It is such a remarkable, lovely, rewarding story full of Forster's talent and wit as a writer. My only wish is that there'd been just a touch more Alec!
I loved the film and i had to read the book. Definetely one of my favorite stories. It feels so real.
Hi Jason, thanks so much for this video! I have started my own Queer Book Club and Maurice is our first book, I will definitely use some of the discussion points that you make in the video and some of the example passages that you've used :)
Forster has been on my TBR for a while now. I have A Room with a View but I'll definitely be adding Maurice too. Thanks for sharing this with us. Loved everything about it and learned lots!
Thank you Jason for your succinct appraisal, and soft kissing of this exquisite novel - my favourite of all time...
I just finished reading Maurice. It is a compelling, thoughtful, sad novel. But I'm glad I read it. It's one of my favorite classics, now.
I spent 14 minutes into another world: it's a great video, full of interesting facts, and insightful reflections. I was glad when you said that there was a happy ending... I've been meaning to read E.M. Forster's works since I thoroughly enjoyed A Room with a View. Maurice seems to be more serious, less ironic, and I would love to discover this side of the author. Thank you :).
Have recently finished reading this beautiful work and really enjoyed your discussion here. I like how Forster handles Maurice deftly yet allows room for him to grow and does not shy away from this as a tale not only of desire, but of love; true love. Your videos and channel are wonderful and I love your insight into so many things. Have you seen the 1987 film adaptation of Maurice?
Amazing novel and the messages still resonate. :)
I will definitely pick this up. Thank you for this video. I enjoyed it and learned.
Jason, this is truly beautiful. It's like you made it as a model for my students' assignment. We'll definitely be watching and discussing this in class. I'm glad you finally made this. It exceeded my expectations, which were already high. Well done.
It was such a delight to listen to you, thanks a lot for sharing. The lines from the terminal note were just both heart-wrenching and beautiful. Subscribing!
this book was just amazing, i understand why it wasn't published at the time but part of me wishes it was
Jason, your discussions and reviews are just the most beautiful thing. This was so eloquent and informative and just wonderfully edited. You've definitely sparked a desire in me to read this book that I hadn't really heard of before!
I need to read this book! great discussion, very interesting.
This was just great - you're really, really good at these video discussions (and of course really good at filming them - they're beautifully produced, too)
You MUST watch the film.
I love these discussion videos! You speak so eloquent in your discussions. I just want to read everything you talk about. Definitely will pick this up in the near future (:
Thanks a great overview of my favourite Forster novel, you capture some of the romance, passion, inner dialogue, heartbreak & redemption in this truly revolutionary book. As a young gay man I read Maurice and although I grew up in a much more liberal era, it still really connected to me: I now live in Amsterdam and even if this famously liberal city not everyone is as comfortable with openly gay people. Anyway I’ve been reading A Room with a View recently which is also as intensely rich and entertaining novel, but my favourite Forster will always be first love, Maurice.
You're such an awesome reviewer, thanks for this video! I love how much effort you put in and really get into the issues in the text. Such a breath of fresh air! I'll definitely keep an eye out for Maurice now!
I loved this so much! Thank you for this beautiful discussion :))
This was such a great review! I can't wait to read and enjoy the book.
I've been watching some of your videos lately, and finally decided to subscribe :)
I didn't read Maurice yet, but I absolutely loved the movie. Thank you for this review, I'll hurry to read the book now!
Would really dig an audio book of this, if you did one
Such a great review!
Oh Jason, how do you do it? Your videos are so eloquent and well put together - I really need to take a leaf out of your book! I want to read this ten times more now that I've watched your video, it was an absolute treat.
Wonderful commentary - beautiful and moving!
What a wonderful discussion!
nobody asked but quick rant about Clive's character in the novel vs in the movie:
i love the novel but i much prefer the route the movie took with his character. We could clearly see that in the beginning he was more free spirited (disagreeing with the dean about the "unspeakable vice of the greeks" etc.) but as his relationship with Maurice went on, he became more and more aware of how they were going against society's expectations. Risley' arrest (which didn't happen in the novel) was a tipping point for him where he realized what fate could await him so he started suppressing his attraction to men and internalizing the homophobia of society at the time. Still, we could see his internal battle, and in the final scene we had the sense that deep inside he was still the same person, and perhaps he felt regret that Maurice could live his life as his true self with Alec while he was trapped in society's confinement.
In the novel however (and this is just how I understood it, English is not my first language) he seemingly just turns straight against his own will after being with Maurice for three years (and being just as active if not more in their relationship)?? There is an emphasis on how his body suddenly stops being attracted to men and starts being attracted to women.. he even consciously tries to feel attracted to Maurice again but physically can't.. It was odd for me because it was such a 180 without anything directly prompting it.. also after "turning straight" he never again feels anything remotely close to attraction for Maurice or any other man again.
Anyway i loved the novel and i think it's a really important piece of literature but the movie improved on it in major ways, which is very rare in adaptations.
Thank you, Jungkook
I keep repeating my thoughts on this in various comments sections because, in the discussion of Maurice as a book (movie adaptation), Clive's character is often very misunderstood by people. So here goes...
I feel like people don't realize that Clive was already broken even before he met Maurice. While Maurice is only faintly aware of his urges, Clive knew from a young age and suffered for it. Clive is deeply religious, sensitive and an intellectual who turned all this conflict and the hatred of the world towards men like him, inwards.
At age 16 he had a mental breakdown and had to be removed from school. "At first he thought God must be trying him, and if he did not blaspheme would recompense him like Job. He therefore bowed his head, fasted, and kept away from anyone whom he found himself inclined to like. His sixteenth year was ceaseless torture. He told no one, and finally broke down and had to be removed from school."
Clive thinks with he is damned. "It should not ever become carnal" This is why he keeps his relationship with Maurice platonic. Clive had a lonely existence. He kept to his books and music and never let anyone close for fear of corrupting them... that is until Maurice.
We never get an as extensive background of the character in the movie as we do in the book but Grant's performance gives us a window into Clive's pain. When he says to Maurice: "You don't know what Hell's really like." you have an idea of the pain he feels but it's only when reading the book that we are made aware of the torture he lived with as a young boy and young adult.
Clive's relationship with Maurice, in a way, provided a respite from his inner turmoil. But even when they were happiest (3 years), that turmoil never ceased.
Like you, I never bought Clive suddenly turning straight. So I very much loved the addition of Risley's arrest. It was the catalyst to Cive's change of heart. (Many thanks to screenwriters Kit Hasketh-Harvey and James Ivory)
I came to the conclusion that Clive had successfully repressed his homosexuality because his reasons for suddenly liking women seemed superficial. There is also a key phrase in the book that hints at this.
When their relationship was new, Clive put so much importance on things and places that reminded him of their love. The Blue Room, amongst the ferns, Cambridge or the sidecar---he could not comprehend their love existing elsewhere. I always took that as Clive seeing these places as their sanctuary or bubble, where they could not be judged and could just be themselves. Forster himself thought this way and felt ill-equipped to deal with the outside world after leaving Cambridge. He viewed Cambridge as this "world in miniature".
I feel like Clive was the same way. The further thrust into the real world, the stronger his self-hate became. As Clive declares that he is "normal" he begins to hate all the things he associates with that love. "He hated queerness, Cambridge, the Blue Room, certain glades in the park were-not tainted, there had been nothing disgraceful-but rendered subtly ridiculous."
But in the end though, after Clive realizes that Maurice is forever lost to him, he is reminded of these places. "To the end of his life Clive was not sure of the exact moment of departure, and with the approach of old age he grew uncertain whether the moment had yet occurred. The Blue Room would glimmer, ferns undulate. Out of some external Cambridge his friend began beckoning to him, clothed in the sun, and shaking out the scents and sounds of the May term." We see Clive, in the end, resigned to his fate of loneliness and regret.
Clive, out of the 3, is the most compelling character imho. Forster could have easily turned this book Clive's story.
I was able to purchase Professor Wendy Moffat's 'A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E. M. Forster'. Moffat had access to Forster's letters and diary at King's and writes that Clive (although Forster does not identify his model in his Terminal Notes) is based on Forster's first great love, Hugh Owen Meredith. Meredith or HOM as he was called was very much like Clive. He was a scholar, a poet, handsome, and just brilliant. "HOMs brains, beauty and grace were intoxicating to Morgan." Moffat also writes: "Hugh was indecisive, intensely self-critical, and prone to appreciate things just after they had gone out of reach." (sounds familiar, ei? hehe).
Like Clive, HOM would marry, and Forster slowly saw that connection with HOM lost. In 1906 he visited HOM in Manchester but felt sickened because he was "cut off from HOM" who was at that time engaged. He realized something essential about their friendship had dwindled so he began to doubt if the intimate connection they had was true at all.
in 1908 when Forster published 'A Room With A View' he dedicated it to HOM. He had always planned to at the start of writing it some 5 years before and based George Emerson on him. What Meredith didn't know was that the book was Forster's farewell to him. Both men refused to talk about the relationship and Moffat writes that the closest thing to a record of it was the portrait of Clive, a portrait Forster could only paint after he had "outgrown both Hugh's platonic affections and the sting of recognizing their limitations." And seeing how Forster just abandons Clive near the end of the story (Forster admits being annoyed with him)... well, I can only speculate that there was still probably some residual bitterness there on his part.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. lol
Your videos really are an education, in the best possible way. I've avoided Forster's work since disliking A Passage to India and A Room with a View back in high school, but this one sounds really interesting
Great video! I'm definitely going to pick this novel up. I vaguely remember enjoying the movie, Rupert Graves (Lestrade in BBC's Sherlock) played Alec. Thanks for rekindling my interest!
I love the review ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you
What a lovely discussion of Maurice. I like EM Forster and have read the book.
Have you seen the Merchant Ivory film of this book, it is wonderful and faithful to the text.
On the strength of your discussion I am going to subscribe to your channel, I am really impressed.
Wow, thanks so much for this kind comment. No, I haven't seen any adaptations, but I'll check this out. I was recently in contact with someone who was working to adapt it as an opera, which I think would be fascinating.
I watched the movie in 1995, was absolutely moved and read the book. It still remains the best novel I ever read with a "homosexual" love story.
I still think of this line in the book, "with eyes gone intensely blue, he whispered I love you". This was Clive's first confession of love to Maurice. What a book and what a wonderful movie adaptation.
I am currently watching the film and reading the book, and i have searched high and low for the deleted scenes that is very important (to me) because the referencing is important to me in order to understand. But im hoping to reread and rewatch it because second times may help me understand deeper and better !
Theres some deleted scenes here on youtube search it
Havent watched all of the video yet but I just had to pause and comment that my god you are beautiful
This book sounds so intriguing. I'm looking around at my books right now, and the amount of books I have on the LGBT community is woefully lacking. This is needs to be fixed. Maurice is definitely going on my TBR.
P.S. In the black & white shots, you've got this great Gregory Peck meets James Dean thing going on.
It's been a while since I marked this on my to read list, but I never knew much about it.
It seems to go deep on the characters inner struggle, the references interest me very much, and the language seems beautiful.
I never expected a book on the subject to be cheery, but Maurice is sounding quite the downer, I hope the author could bring some sort of reflection that at least looks at a brighter future. Documentation from that period is intriguing, comparing to situation we face today.
Forster has any other novel that focus on the same subject ?
Good work God bless
Great! :)
Thanks.
can i get a link to have this format ebook?
Love Forster's writing. Probably one of the best "Gay" novels out there.... written 1910-ish but published after his death. Book helped me come out. Still pertinent 2020 still know Clives out there getting married and not being honest with themselves. Merchant Ivory Production is STELLAR and must see
This would make a great Musical!
My goodness you are so darn handsome x
I’ve always pronounced it “Mareeeese”
I saw it on the cinema with my best friend aged 17, two young gay lads.
Hey jayson
You are beautiful.
Ain't it the Truth!
Really like the way you make your reviews. So tired from ya booktubers so thanks for subscribing otherwise I wouldn't know about you. Do you understand something in my videos?))
I would also appreciate somebody to recommend me youtubers like you. Thank you one more time.
The AG (Algorithm God) dropped this on my home page because I've been watching videos about Forster and the background to Maurice (Your name has such a wonderful cadence to it, so...so aristocratic! I want to name my next cat "Purcell"). That aside, it's interesting to see how a book is adapted first into a screenplay and then into the final script for a movie. Timelines are adjusted, scenes and dialogue deleted or created, e.g. ones where Maurice tries to seduce a made-up character Dickie. As you know, in the novel, the reason Scudder enters Maurice's room is because he called out for Clive, and Scudder believes Maurice is calling to him.
No that’s simply wrong. Maurice wasn’t calling out for Clive. By then he’d already stopped loving Clive and he didn’t even know why he called. The “come” was directed towards the darkness and meant for the friend from Maurice’s childhood dream who’d last his whole life and sacrifice everything for him, who cannot be separated by distance or crossness. And the 2nd time he called “come” to the darkness, Alec answered-because Alec thought Maurice was calling to him, and because Alec was the friend from Maurice’s dream. Maurice therefore was indirectly calling for Alec who’d become someone lasting his whole life. “This is your friend”.
What do you mean by Dickie being "made up"? He was in the novel.
Carpenter was not an LGTb advocate because such a term did not exist. He was an outsider and glad to be: he wanted no affiliation with any organisation or community. It's wrong to apply modern terms to people who can't speak for themselves.
Thanks for pointing that out!
Very nice breakdown and review. However, the pronunciation is 'maw-REESE'.
Thanks, glad you liked it! However, since this is an English novel, it takes on the English pronunciation of Maurice, which is "morris." What you are thinking is the French pronunciation. It's a regional difference. The name comes from the Latin Mauritius and is pronounced differently by different language groups.
This pronunciation is better suited for the spelling MORRIS, which is the English equivilent of the French Maurice. An educated Englishperson, particularly of the period, would be well versed in French and be sure to pronouce it thusly.
+Tojazzer .. Jason is correct.. the British pronounce "Maurice" like "Morris"... and this is the pronunciation used in the Merchant-Ivory film. It took me a while to get used to it, too. Great discussion, Jason. I love both the novel and film.
Comment 69 :)