proving ALL logarithm properties using calculus

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  • čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
  • This is how the natural logarithm was first defined. That is ln(x)=the integral from 1 to x of 1/t dt. We will use this integral definition to prove the logarithmic properties that we are familiar with from algebra and precalculus. This is a very good exercise for calculus 1 or calculus 2 students.
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Komentáře • 152

  • @blackpenredpen
    @blackpenredpen  Před 5 lety +122

    Hi

    • @einsteingonzalez4336
      @einsteingonzalez4336 Před 5 lety +2

      blackpenredpen Hey! I just want to tell you this: Thank you so much for approving the captions! : D Someday, I may include Chinese captions. ; )

    • @raptor9514
      @raptor9514 Před 5 lety

      Hello

    • @Debg91
      @Debg91 Před 5 lety

      I would like to translate to Spanish and Portuguese! How could I do it?

    • @realcirno1750
      @realcirno1750 Před 5 lety

      hey

    • @stuartzekaj1423
      @stuartzekaj1423 Před 5 lety

      Hello

  • @kostantinos2297
    @kostantinos2297 Před 5 lety +108

    Could just write x/y as x*(1/y), use property 4 to write ln(x/y) as ln(x) + ln(1/y), then ln(1/y) = ln(y⁻¹) = -ln(y) through property 2.

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Před 5 lety +30

      Oh yea!!! I forgot I had that already lol

    • @mohammedomari7209
      @mohammedomari7209 Před 5 lety +1

      Can not could!.

    • @hasanzia1613
      @hasanzia1613 Před 5 lety +1

      Yeah, that's what I came up with. I just didn't convert ln(1/y) to -ln(y).

    • @hasanzia1613
      @hasanzia1613 Před 5 lety +1

      I was going to comment about that.

    • @kostantinos2297
      @kostantinos2297 Před 5 lety

      @@hasanzia1613
      I can see that several people suggested that as well. Looks like I'm getting all the credit though :)

  • @primmebox4734
    @primmebox4734 Před 5 lety +31

    Can you do the differentiation and integration of x! It would be fun

  • @Samir-zb3xk
    @Samir-zb3xk Před 11 měsíci +3

    Change of base property: "I guess I'm just an illusion"

  • @thishandlecrapisstupid
    @thishandlecrapisstupid Před 5 lety +12

    New to your channel - it's like watching an artist paint! Wish I had instructors like you in high school in the 1980s; mine didn't know how to calculus themselves out of a wet paper bag.

  • @Bodyknock
    @Bodyknock Před 5 lety +4

    5) seems very roundabout since you already proved ln(xy) = ln(x) + ln(y). Use that to say ln(x (1/y)) = ln(x) + ln(y^-1). Then from 2) you have = ln(x) - ln(y)

  • @karolchojnacki3924
    @karolchojnacki3924 Před 5 lety +35

    Sleep: its 01:23, go to bed
    New bprp video: *appears*
    Sleep: nonono

  • @lambda2857
    @lambda2857 Před 5 lety +4

    An explanation of the elliptic functions sn, tn, cn, dn, and so on, from a geometric standpoint, would be a very good video to make.

  • @mtaur4113
    @mtaur4113 Před 2 lety +5

    Next on the list, let exp be the inverse function to ln. ln(exp(x)) = x, then differentiate both sides and use the chain rule and algebra to see that exp' = exp.

    • @fotnite_
      @fotnite_ Před rokem

      It's probably best to define it with the Taylor Series, 1) because that's what's used in practice, but also 2) it will have students work with infinite series to prove exp' = exp to provide more variety

    • @mtaur4113
      @mtaur4113 Před rokem

      @@fotnite_ Often the first time you see it is with compound interest, which is at best an important limit that comes up a lot, but power series and exp' = exp is much more satisfying and fundamental overall. Some textbooks do ln before exp because the number of things you have to prove to formally define it is smaller, and many beginners have a very hard time understanding the idea of an infinite sum and summation notation, for whatever reason.

  • @EpicMathTime
    @EpicMathTime Před 5 lety +22

    *prove integrals from log properties*

  • @steve2817
    @steve2817 Před 5 lety +19

    Me : AM 8:40, I'm late for school!
    BPRP : *Properties of logarithm function with Integral*

  • @edivardeshenrique7196
    @edivardeshenrique7196 Před 5 lety +6

    At 2:18:
    How do we know that [x^r]'=r*x^(r-1)? It seems a circular argument, because we don't even know what x^r means without ln.

    • @Apollorion
      @Apollorion Před 5 lety +2

      Smart, because the power rule for non-rational values of r can only be derived via properties of the ln.
      If we define the ln however not by the integral shown in the video but as the inverse of e^x, the latter we might define as:
      A. the function equal to it's own derivative, as well as equal to 1 for the input value 0.
      B. of what according to A it's Taylor-series around x=0 are.
      C. the limit of (1+x/n)^n as n goes to positive infinite.
      .. then the argument would no longer be circular, I think.

    • @edivardeshenrique7196
      @edivardeshenrique7196 Před 5 lety

      @@Apollorion Yeah! It works, but I think it would be way more difficult to prove these properties.
      At least for me, the definition by the area under the hyperbola it's more intuitive. But for this we need another argument.

  • @GAPIntoTheGame
    @GAPIntoTheGame Před 5 lety +4

    For step 5 wouldn’t it be simpler to rewrite it to be ln(x*y^(-1)) and then use a combination of the results in step 4 and step 2 in order to find the answer:
    ln(x/y) = ln( x*y^(-1) ) =(step 4)=
    = ln(x) + ln(y^(-1)) =(step 2)=
    = ln(x) +( -1*ln(y) ) = ln(x) - ln(y)

  • @HelloWorld-dq5pn
    @HelloWorld-dq5pn Před 2 lety +2

    Once you have the logarithm of a product formula it is actually pretty intuitive to get the power formula. (Cuz a number raised to a power its just a number multiplying itself).

  • @GSHAPIROY
    @GSHAPIROY Před 5 lety +3

    To prove #5, you can just use the product rule (for natural logs) and the power rule (for natural logs), since ln(x/y)=ln(x*1/y)=ln(xy^(-1))=lnx+ln(y^(-1))=lnx+(-1)lny=lnx-lny.

    • @skylardeslypere9909
      @skylardeslypere9909 Před 5 lety

      But that's not the point of the video is it, Gabriel? You can prove all of them without the integrals jut that's not the point. :)

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 Před 5 lety +3

      Skylar Deslypere It is the point of the video, though. He never used the definition to actually prove property 2. He used property 1, which itself was proven fron the definition. You only need to prove some properties from the definition, the rest can be proven from the other properties. That is how the video works. This means he overly complicated the video.

  • @SD19951
    @SD19951 Před 5 lety +1

    Prove that a function s.t. f(xy) = f(x) + f(y) has e^(x/f'(1)) as its inverse.

    • @anshumanagrawal346
      @anshumanagrawal346 Před 3 lety +1

      You can't it's not enough info, you need continuity as well

  • @helloitsme7553
    @helloitsme7553 Před 5 lety +1

    So what about proving ln(x) is the inverse of e^x? Since that is not how you chose to define ln(x)

    • @elilogan8630
      @elilogan8630 Před 2 lety +1

      d/dx (ln(e^x))= 1/(e^x)*e^x=1 by chain rule. integrate to get ln(e^x)=x

  • @eliyasne9695
    @eliyasne9695 Před 5 lety +1

    Great video!

  • @AyMen-pl7gg
    @AyMen-pl7gg Před 5 lety

    You are the best one in integrals my brother thank's soo much

  • @aradarbel4579
    @aradarbel4579 Před 5 lety +1

    thats my favorite kind of videos

  • @4gnostic
    @4gnostic Před 2 měsíci

    In another video you used ln(x)-properties to prove that 1/x is an indefinite integral of ln(x), right? is math sometimes cyclic?

  • @HeraldoS2
    @HeraldoS2 Před 5 lety +3

    2:35 I guess I will be the guy with the comment about formalism in mathematics... XD. I guess there would be no problem if r is rational, but if r is irrational then it would be necessary to have a previous definition for x^r. A common definition for x^r is if x>0, x^r=:e^(r*ln(x)). From that it follows that if x>0 for any real number r then (x^r)'=rx^(r-1)... However, that result was used in the proof so it would be circular thought... I liked the proofs for 4 and 5. Using induction, 4 and 5 it is possible to prove 2 for any rational r. Then that result would motivate a definition for x^r for any real r.

  • @plaustrarius
    @plaustrarius Před 5 lety

    @blackpenredpen have you or anyone you else you know done a video on the integral of (cos(t)-1)/t from zero to x? I would be interested, it involves special integrals and the Euler-Mascheroni Constant.
    I know Dr. Peyam has done videos on the EMC in the past, but when I searched could not find this one.
    Thank you! Very gracious for your hard work!!

  • @dd39393
    @dd39393 Před 5 měsíci

    THANK YOU

  • @adrient3957
    @adrient3957 Před 2 lety

    I miss a piece of the puzzle for full comprehension. I never understood integration by substitution. Is there a video that explain how this thing works ?

  • @michaeledwardharris
    @michaeledwardharris Před rokem

    Excellent.

  • @mathunt1130
    @mathunt1130 Před 2 lety

    I don't like the way he proved 2. He should have done a substitution of t=u^r, and you would have got that out easily. Property 5 follows from properties 2 and 4.

  • @seroujghazarian6343
    @seroujghazarian6343 Před 5 lety +2

    You could have concluded 5 from 2 and 4

  • @samharper5881
    @samharper5881 Před 5 lety +15

    0:50 *cries in Chinese* DON'T TALK ABOUT CHEN LIKE DAT

    • @einsteingonzalez4336
      @einsteingonzalez4336 Před 5 lety +2

      Sam Harper Actually, the Chen Lu, as Steve Chow/blackpenredpen calls it, is called the Chain Rule. They’re similar, but he calls it the Chen Lu because it’s funny that way. Just deal with it. ; )

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Před 5 lety +1

      @@einsteingonzalez4336 It's from Dr. P : )

    • @einsteingonzalez4336
      @einsteingonzalez4336 Před 5 lety +1

      blackpenredpen Of course I’ve heard of Dr. Peyam! : )

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Před 5 lety +1

      Yea. He is the originator. But I guess people associate me and Chen lu more ..

    • @samharper5881
      @samharper5881 Před 5 lety

      @@einsteingonzalez4336 omg. EVERYBODY KNOWS CHEN LU = CHAIN RULE IS A CHANNEL MEME. Jesus. The name Einstein really has lost its luster.

  • @blackpenredpen
    @blackpenredpen  Před 5 lety +3

    No thumbnail!

  • @yoavshati
    @yoavshati Před 5 lety

    I remember commenting about this somewhere and then also on Reddit, but I'm not sure if it was on a video of yours

  • @snbeast9545
    @snbeast9545 Před 5 lety +1

    For number 2, you could just integrate the r/x result from the first derivative to get the r ln x, which would justify where the r ln x came from.

  • @Guillaume_Paczek
    @Guillaume_Paczek Před 5 lety

    Yes okay that’s what I needed , but how could you prove that lnx is the reciprocal of e^x ??

    • @jeroenmampaey1183
      @jeroenmampaey1183 Před 5 lety +3

      ln(e^x)=x*ln(e) so you just have to prove that ln(e)=1, using substitution t=e^u, dt=e^u*du you get ln(e)=int(1/t,t=1..e)=int(e^u/e^u,u=0..1)=1

  • @siddharthmukkanawar4510

    How to integrate e^(-x^2)

  • @VibingMath
    @VibingMath Před 5 lety +2

    This is so fun to watch. Thank you bprp! We will teach integration class first then log class in future 😂

  • @thedoublehelix5661
    @thedoublehelix5661 Před 5 lety +1

    I love it. 2 things though: isn't property six trivial if you know property 5 and 2, and can you prove that the integral definition of ln is the same as the "normal" definition.

  • @VortexGamesYT
    @VortexGamesYT Před 4 lety

    Amazing!

  • @andreimiga8101
    @andreimiga8101 Před 5 lety

    Hi! Can you help me with this math problem?
    lim n->+inf of (n+2)*(integral from 0 to 1 of x^(n+1)*e^x dx)

    • @Biggyweezer69
      @Biggyweezer69 Před 9 měsíci

      Hey I know this is super old but here's the answer:
      define function f(n) = integral from 0 to 1 of (x^n)*(e^x) dx. Using integration by parts (differentiate x^n and integrate e^x) we clearly see that f(n) = e - n*f(n-1) for n > 0. Since we are integrating a finite function over a finite interval, we are able to take the limit as n->+inf of f(n) by moving the limit inside of the integral. Notice that e^x is uneffected but x^n -> 0 for all numbers in the interval. Essentially the function x^inf * e^x is equal to 0 on the interval (0,1). There are ways to make this intuition rigorous but I won't do it here.
      Here's what we have so far:
      f(n) = e - n*f(n-1) for n > 0
      lim as n->+inf f(n) = 0
      Your limit is just lim n->+inf of (n+2)*f(n+1). Consider f(n+2), using the recursion we derived we know that
      f(n+2) = e - (n+2)*f(n+1) and therefore (n+2)*f(n+1) = e - f(n+2). Taking the limit of both sides we get that your desired limit is e.

    • @Biggyweezer69
      @Biggyweezer69 Před 9 měsíci

      also where did you get the problem, I was surprised when solving it to find that it actually had a pretty nice solution.

  • @tsndiffopera
    @tsndiffopera Před 5 lety

    But, why to choose a tortuous path?

  • @michaelempeigne3519
    @michaelempeigne3519 Před 5 lety

    What is frobenius's theorem?

  • @rob876
    @rob876 Před 5 lety

    Why did you start with ln(x^r). Why not start with ln(xy)? You could have then moved on to ln(x^2), ln(x^3) and so on...

  • @mohammedomari7209
    @mohammedomari7209 Před 5 lety

    Very gooooood Golden boy.

  • @herlysqr1650
    @herlysqr1650 Před 5 lety

    Can you prove ln(e)=1?

  • @MrAleguerreiro
    @MrAleguerreiro Před 5 lety +1

    Math is so beautiful. Great video :)

  • @kepler4192
    @kepler4192 Před 2 lety

    8:45 U have to be Y
    Ok but you still didn’t explain what I have to be and why

  • @kimothefungenuis
    @kimothefungenuis Před 5 lety

    The first property is how we derived the integral in the first place

    • @Metalhammer1993
      @Metalhammer1993 Před 5 lety

      That's typically how you do it. But then you used the inverse of the e-function to define it. Bprp put the kettle on the head. He used the integral as the definition. And let's be real it is not absurd to do that. It after all is non-elementary so defining a function to solve it was only not necessary because we happened to know it before we had a definition of integrals. (Areas under curves were studied for a long time. And many people concluded the area under 1/x to be some strange logarithm).
      And i would not be surprised to see some textbooks define it like that. I literally saw sine and cosine defined by their Taylor series. But if you take a different definition, you need to check for that definition to maintain all properties of the function you are defining.
      And that's where exercises like this come in. And in fact I'm missing one. We proved our integral is a logarithm without any doubt. But we did not prove it's base e. But truth be told this might be overkill for a youtube video xD

  • @juanbomfim22
    @juanbomfim22 Před 5 lety +1

    i love ur blackpenredpen

  • @Debg91
    @Debg91 Před 5 lety +1

    This is a very interesting and pedagogical exercise.
    P.S.: in (4) you are assuming y > 1, right? Otherwise, you cannot split the integral like that (?)

    • @D-Bar
      @D-Bar Před 5 lety +2

      Dani Borrajo Gutiérrez You can still split the integral. It’s like the following integral:
      Integral from a to b of f(x) dx
      = Integral from a to c of f(x) dx + Integral from c to b of f(x) dx for c>b, since the second Integral is negative the extra part from b to c in the first Integral cancels out. In the video, xy represents b and x represents c. c>b if y

    • @Debg91
      @Debg91 Před 5 lety

      @@D-Bar but of course! thank you so much and sorry for the lapsus! 😅

  • @Prxwler
    @Prxwler Před 5 lety

    Love your content!

  • @Bi209plusn0
    @Bi209plusn0 Před 5 lety

    should be starting my geometry baseline review but this is better

  • @tonytrinh1343
    @tonytrinh1343 Před 5 lety +1

    Love BPRP always with the hyped drip 👑

  • @albertodelaraza4475
    @albertodelaraza4475 Před 5 lety

    Request: Show the proof -from- using both definitions of ln and e that ln(x) is the inverse of e^x.

    • @SD19951
      @SD19951 Před 5 lety +1

      Knowing (ln(x))' we also know (ln(f(x)))'. If we define e^x as the function such that it is equal to its derivative and equal to 1 for x=0 using f = e^x we finished

  • @OriginalSuschi
    @OriginalSuschi Před 4 lety

    Where‘s the plus C? Joke xD

  • @jonkeuviuhc1641
    @jonkeuviuhc1641 Před 5 lety +1

    I was bored until 4. But I got to say: that substitution is beautiful.

  • @chrissidiras
    @chrissidiras Před 5 lety

    Saying 'u has..' sounds funny even in non-native english speakers!

  • @jayapandey2541
    @jayapandey2541 Před 5 lety +1

    But where are the red and white chalks? #Supreme

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Před 5 lety

      Hahahaha I like this comment!
      I will guess it’s bc of sin(z)=2

    • @jayapandey2541
      @jayapandey2541 Před 5 lety

      @@blackpenredpen When complex numbers were an *integral* part of the content.

  • @ishaanagarwal5547
    @ishaanagarwal5547 Před 5 lety

    WHY DO YOU USE A HAND MIC?

    • @einsteingonzalez4336
      @einsteingonzalez4336 Před 5 lety

      Ishaan Agarwal Because it helps him use his left hand. Basically, he prefers to keep both of his arms and hands moving. : )

    • @SciDiFuoco13
      @SciDiFuoco13 Před 5 lety

      He already explained in this video czcams.com/video/x1BXVUSZ6Ug/video.html

  • @ilikecucumbers4223
    @ilikecucumbers4223 Před 5 lety

    nice

  • @claireli88
    @claireli88 Před 5 lety

    神是最伟大的几何学家😊He made Earth a sphere so that it has the greatest surface area for a fixed volume.

  • @dakotaroberson9921
    @dakotaroberson9921 Před 5 lety

    SO GOOD!!! The things they don’t teach you in school!!!

  • @cameronspalding9792
    @cameronspalding9792 Před 5 lety +2

    Could you not just do ln(x/y)=
    ln(x)+ln(1/y)

  • @andrekpl7668
    @andrekpl7668 Před 5 lety

    good job

  • @backyard282
    @backyard282 Před 5 lety

    yes but noone is gonna start by defining ln that way

  • @daggerhound1395
    @daggerhound1395 Před 5 lety

    Now make a video proving these integral properties

    • @kostantinos2297
      @kostantinos2297 Před 5 lety

      For x>0, 1∫x(1/t)dt = (ln|t|)1|x = ln|x| - ln|1| = ln(x), hence ln(x) = 1∫x(1/t)dt. I believe everything else can be worked out as shown.

  • @henryloris3872
    @henryloris3872 Před 5 lety

    Didnt know that ln((-1)*(-1))=ln(-1)+ln(-1)

  • @dipanmukherjee7742
    @dipanmukherjee7742 Před 5 lety

    Good good

  • @tom13king
    @tom13king Před 5 lety

    'properites' :thonk:

  • @KevinBeavers
    @KevinBeavers Před 5 lety

    27th to comment!

  • @Patapom3
    @Patapom3 Před 5 lety

    Amazing!

  • @siddharthmukkanawar4510

    How to integrate e^(-x^2)

  • @Kdd160
    @Kdd160 Před 4 lety

    Hi