THE FINALS PATCH 3.6 - HUGE Cashout & World Tour Rework!? (My Thoughts)
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Embark stick to their promise of reworking the Cashout gamemode, which is live in the world tour changes right now! Are these changes a step in the right direction or is this re-work a step backwards?
www.reachthefi...
What's your thoughts on the update & changes to Cashout?
Just saying when talking about Terminal Attack I mentioned about the yellow and white health bar - the white health bar is the one that can be regenerated per round and the yellow can't I got it mixed around my bad (sleeping 4/5hrs a night is fun lul)
The removal off team whips it shockes me it means now teams could just rush in and don't care (it removes the uniqueness of the finals)
(I hate people commenting getting team wipped means you can't steal cash outs,get kills blah blah blah I mean is before if you were first you would avoid going in those fights but now without the punishment you can just go and at worst case scenario you feed them kills and give them 500 cash each best case scenario you TRIRD PARTY and get the cash out this change makes TRIRD party even better)
not true, if they get killed they won't be able to get money for kills and their cashout might get stolen in the time they have to wait before respawning, so it's not like you say it is, just give it some time to figure out your opinion after trying it out
@@anti-tryhardwhen your the only one left alive you avoid getting team whipped now now they will just kill themselves (like teammates with no coins)
@@anti-tryhardbefore you avoided team whips so you dont lose 30% of your cash now they wouldn't be consequences and can go again especially if your first
Agréé
@@meyoutuberfrendu haven't been playing recently, have you? getting wiped means u can't steal, can't get $500 bonus for kills, can't tap any vaults, can't start a cashout for 26ish seconds which is A BIG DEAL since if u keep on missing out on all the action you won't even make it to the next round EVEN IF you get the 22k cash
No wipe penalties is definitely a strange decision. Teams in 4th place struggling will have to resort to letting teams revive each other instead of wiping just so they can get extra cash, you might have teams tactically killing themselves just so the teams don’t have anyone to kill lmaoooooo.
And of course, please provide the proper feedback to Embark, the change is not permanent but do let them know how you feel about the changes y’all
Yeah exactly that, they can coin themselves to avoid loosing out on giving $500 or so to the other team etc, and then they can also coin themselves to probably manipulate their own spawn / gain an advantage by coining, getting third person camera for info then executing on the vault etc etc
already ran into this... miss the feeling of targeting teams to wipe to win, or choose who goes to next round with you... sad)':
We were already tactically killing ourselves to regroup as a whole team instead of wasting coins. Now we just have another reason to do so.
I'm not too sure about the team wipe penalty change, but its worth tossing it to the community to test it out.
100% nothing wrong with them experimenting and I’m on Embarks side for testing these changes out :)
I can appreciate embark going all out and trying wacky stuff in world tour mode, cash out with crazy new rules for each stage sounds awesome to me. Maybe they'll find the perfect formula for ranked cash out in S4 with this.
100% it’s a step in the right direction for sure and I think this makes the mode a little fresh for those long time players grinding this mode out for like a year now haha
Ye, Embark even stated before s3 they would use this opportunity with TA as ranked, to evolve cashout to something better for s4.
Honestly this is fresh, I like the idea. They should keep it where each sponsor sets their own unique rules to the game making the finals even more competitive with different variables added.
Volpe: no cash loss on wipes
Ospuze: more cash for kills
Holtow: unlimited coins
Cns: glitched map random demat
Something like that.
@@Justgoneforsometime ye they could try a lot of things for fun, but also to see what could be the S4 ranked rules (my main interest tbh 🙈)
This is a good update in my opinion. The increased kill reward, as well as the cashout reward, means that it is more based on skill rather than a lucky last moment cash out steal, which happens a lot.
As negative as I am to the changes, that’s probably the best change. My friend has a huge issue with rushing straight to the cashout to take and I think the 1 extra second will help to discourage him from taking those risky cashout when he should be helping us kill the enemies
@@mosleythehoesley I dont know if 1 second difference will change the mind of your stubborn friend 😂😂 But i hope it does
Yeah, even though I feel skill can be determined in multiple ways in THE FINALS - not just relating to getting eliminations, for example you can be a skilful player if you know how to rotate, play objectives stop steals etc etc but I think 1 extra second on steals is fine
nah the changes to evasive dash is bs it takes a second for any class to kill us now we have to wait 3 more seconds total for all the dashes
there's a lot less third parties for sure
I like most of the changes, but not convinced removing the cash penalty for team wipes and nerfing dash are the right moves
Dash nerf was so random
Cash penalty was great
100% and I think overall the changes were a step in the right direction, and I think we’d probably be close to “there” with some form of wipe penalty at least :)
Dash nerf is ridiculous
@@JayJay-sz9ee I'm a dash main but I rarely see anyone running cloak now. Probably why it got a slight nerf. And invis has already been nerfed a ton since the beginning. embark is doing what they normally do to try and balance. and please don't say just make invis better. nah, it's good where it is 😂
From a competative perspective I feel these changes are good(I've played a couple games and its felt generally good to me). On one hand it makes the strategy of siting in a corner when you are first place to not team wipe non existent anymore but it makes it very easy for a team to just spiral into first place and never leave. But ig if you really think about it nothing has changed as with team wipes, first place stays on top hiding in a corner(if they are playing to win not get the most cash), and without team wipes first place still fights for overtime and will likely stay on top.
basically no team wipes and the kill cash bonus being 500 now encourages people to fight each other the whole game, leading to more aggressive plays and interesting moments. if this game is going to thrive it needs to be interesting for viewers and, previously, seeing the top team just hiding in a corner because team wiping risks their placement to the next round, would not be very interesting to watch.
I will probably get some hate for enjoying the no team wipe penalty as I see alot of people not like it but it will lead to more aggressive plays and less passive, playing for life and drawing out a fight to not team wipe
Yeah that’s some good points too, I think now another thing is that the team who is first can actually have more freedom in deciding who qualifies more - for example now there’s no wipes, if say the team in last place starts a cashout (causing 2nd place to need to fight to win it - then the team in 1st place can sacrifice everything to make sure the 4th place team qualifies etc etc) maybe too deep but still it’s there haha.
Good changes overall though!
@@THiiXY I agree with the comment above on more aggressiveness in the general playstyle, but I think this community (or the casuals at least) will hate it. The vast majority of the game's lifespan had HHM and MMH as the meta, and the one season where the ranked meta changes to favor light the community loses their mind (light is typically a much much more aggressive playstyle until you hit high ranks - top 1000 ish can usually coordinate HHM to do a pad into double rpg push without waiting). I don't agree with the removal of cash wipes from the game as they were a quintessential way to irk out a win in the later stages of the round. Games should always incentivize aggression, previously 1st place team had to put themselves at risk in order to greif - not anymore.
I liked having to play my life and scale aggression based on how the match was going. It was an interesting element. Kinda disappointed but we'll see how it plays.
Team wipe being free is not ideal. I hope they switch this back.
@@nochancecw this I agree, it makes WT wipes a little less grieving + let's the newbies find WT less forgiving. But to resolve the 3rd parting meta - there also needs to be an award for time spent at objectives ( more time spent attacking or defending - ) not just "starting" and "cashing"
I’m assuming part of the reason team wipes were removed is because of the cash on kill buff. Rather than taking 30% from you it gives 1500 (+900) to the enemy. but I don’t think that really is good compensation.
That 30% penalty isn’t just a penalty, it’s a reward. The few times me and my friend have qualified because we team wiped orange and then stole the 5th cashout isn’t many, but it has added so much to our matches where we are at such an underdog disadvantage.
Also, as Ottr had talked about, cashout has a pretty serious issue with third parties, and on the competitive level the best squad is a trio of lights who third party everyone. I think this will further incentivize that fast paced gameplay. I’ve already seen strats where people only focus opening vaults for that quick 2000 cash at the start of the match, I can only assume the 30% on depo will add to that playstyle of not really playing to the cashout, but just jumping around snatching any little cash you can get and third partying.
Thats the only thing that i want back the other changes are good/okay
@@samridhmukhiya I live for the third party tactics. When this goes pro comp, third partying will make watching way more fun. It just adds an ever changing dynamic which means skills meets tactics.
100% I think that there’s so much valuable lessons in THE FINALS to be taught that staying alive and playing smart beats just running around everywhere W keying, playing aggressive etc. It’s the players that know how to play aggressive AND smart in the moment but now the only punishment is time wiped, that’s the new economy
Honestly, i enjoyed the kind of stakes there were in cashout with the teamwipe penalty thingy. It really set new macro strategies we've never seen in any other game. There were times where you had to consider with your team whether its worth it for the last player to just leave themselves get wiped and lose us money, so no coins are wasted for the later rounds and more importantly for a chance of a better spawn in order to third party another cashout. Kind of a niche thing i liked about the game but now its all gone and we're gonna see a lot more teams just yolo fights because theres not much on the line if they fail.
Nice video as always!
Yeah exactly and I think that a lot of people see skill in the finals just being tied to getting eliminations etc, but this game is so much deeper that that where as you just said making decisions like that actually determines true skill, being smart is better than being always fully aggressive, but I guess this does maybe fix the whole “first place camp” idea where 1st place anchor or camp but then again they can still dictate who qualifies etc.
Hope you’re doing well king!
Good changes. Love the new spawn locations. Cash out station in top of Kyoto tower is insane. I brought the second vault to it and all 4 teams are jumping up and down the center jump pad it was the most chaotic thing I’ve ever seen. Keep it up embark!
I only play wt and casual modes, the no more losing money on team wipes are a god send because there would be times where you're actively avoiding one of the other teams and they just hunt you down until they get the kill without regarding the nearest cashout or vault.
Lets see if this changes their behavior 🧐
Yeah that’s a fair point too, I guess it could then change to being said team trying to hunt you now trying to stop more vaults from being deposited etc, but then very late game they can still effect you by dictating who qualifies and who doesn’t etc etc
@@THiiXY What's wrong with teams hunting down other team for strategic purposes? If say, team Blue is third place and theres a minute left in the game, team Blue can have the strategic decision, to either try and open up another vault and try and make it to cashout, leading to overtime OR chase/snipe down one of the leading teams, in order to have them lose cash, so team blue can climb the cash hierarchy to second team. Removing the penalty for team wipes, removes strategic decisions, tactics and mindgames the player has to chose from and instantly makes the game more boring and less risk/reward based.
@@THiiXYalso: now the first place team now longer has anything to lose from participating in overtime cashout fights. Usually a first place team has an incentive to stay out of last second overtime cashouts, because at worst, they will get pushed down to second place and still make it to the next tournament round. NOW: the first place has nothing to lose, by going for end of round cashouts, because it doesn't matter if they get wiped. They're just annoying and trying to go for more exp, without any risk on their side.
@TroIIord That's fair, but what about the teams that are, say 33k deposited, while my team is in third, not even considering going to the cashout they have. And the push across the map to get the other one while the other 3 teams are fighting for it. It's just annoying. I know it's strategic, and I love how this game opens up endless strategy, but some teams being so sweaty that they have to play like I just described just makes it less fun.
I played a few round this morning. I really enjoyed it, it allows you to still go for kills instead of hiding when your in first place on the last cash
Yeah I’ll admit that it did feel refreshing to play WT it was enjoyable and the wipes thing didn’t really throw me off that much, but I’ll admit that it did save us from getting 3rd etc once or so lol (without being 3rd partied)
I kinda like the idea of removing the death penalty on squad wipes. Rewarding aggressive play over passive play feels like the right move for me.
The only change i dont like is adjusting ghe time it takes to steal. It just messes with that muscle memory of knowing how long you need/how much time you have to steal.
Sure that’s fair and your opinion :) I just felt that THE FINALS having rewarding teams that know when to play aggressive and passive determines a better team VS one that keeps full sending it (as long as the wipe timer isn’t against them).
I was thinking more so teams could tactically all coin themselves in order to get better spawns, run away from people trying to get an extra $500 and more :)
YES FINALLY! I love the 93r, I'm so glad it got a slight buff. Dashes, I think that's fair it'll be less spammy now. I think cashout was fine the way it was but we'll see!
Yeah after showing the 93R on video I was playing it in PowerShift a little, felt way nicer now especially if you control the sprays a bit more, I’d say it can do with a very slight range buff too :)
I want to say that I greatly respect and appreciate you saying how youre open to an explanation on the changes; I'd like to start by saying I think your confusion comes from using specific situations and how the changes conflict with those situations how you used to teach new players, rather than the system's interactions and how the changes affect those interactions in that system. I say this because I understand your view but to understand it I have to place myself in such a way, whereas personally I look at the system as mentioned.
Team wipes are still team wipes-they keep an entire team out of the game and away from interacting with the objective. It also is a threat that can force coins if revive camping. Them upping the money for kills means its still worth something to go for kills. But it also means you dont lose rewards for objective for dying. You already have coins for spawning and lose time for dying as a team, more punishment is unnecessary. It also means that you cant ignore objective to wipe a team into second or third place. And if you wipe a team, thats 3 people you cant kill for at least 24 seconds. Money you cant earn. If youre going to farm for kills, team wiping isnt necessarily the way to go if it lets the opponent cashout-going for team wipe after team wipe does not put a person in last if they can play objective. Like, chasing for a team wipe in certain circumstances is no longer viable-meaning going for kills is WORSE in some situations, and no longer viable in others. And youre not just thinking "dont die" youre thinking "make sure you get cashout". You dont want to team wipe unless you can set up defense after stealing, otherwise you keep pressure on objective and push off or wipe at last second.
I understand your view, but I find it ironic that the changes you view as making kill-focused gameplay more rewarding actually make it more risky; Same with defib spamming: Do I defib on obj to help hold it and risk them dying again giving more money to the enemy? Do I let them use a coin to come from an angle? Do I just try to hold until cashout and hope I dont die and we dont wipe before then? If a team of mediums is able to hold or steal objective but only through defib spamming, it means they can theoretically lose due to deposit bonuses, steals, and kill cash for the enemies.
Sorry if it seemed like a lot, its just that I found the changes to be very helpful with adding proper variety and focus on objective. So it was surprising to hear you find it a change that made kills more focused. If anything, its changed the nature of kills to be centered around objective and timer more than anything.
Ayy thank you for the breakdown I really appreciate it! Yes I can understand those perspectives now, I think a good new way to explain it is that "time" can be considered the new economy - because if a team is wiped then, as you were mentioning they miss out on the new goal of trying to actually deposit a vault into a cashout station instead. I think it's just a mix of myself being very busy with other projects but I'll watch more matches to learn some new ideas.
I will say though, that I've had the worry of top players and stacks dominating against other players like solo/duo in ranked because of the new changes, and having spoken with one of the best Mediums currently, he's even been reporting that the new update favors them a lot more. In particular, they have the ability late game to help a lesser skilled team qualify (as they can all sacrifice late game without a wipe penalty) to make the lobbies a lot easier for the next round/final. So potentially that case will be more common, and it's a strategy that a lot of people could apply (help the worst team qualify - in round 1/2 or even the final round) in order to give them higher odds.
Again, it's a very specific scenario but it's food for thought, however I appreciate you breaking down the changes with a different perspective!
Thanks for your time and watching :)
@THiiXY While I've seen and sometimes gone for trying to get a worse team into the next round, I never thought of running into the ground to do it, that's a great point. I feel like that may come down to scaling; Maybe add a scaling system to kills rewards so that trying to bomb a team late game feeds them enough to maintain position? Maybe even a cash bonus for wipeouts or specifically being the team to wipe out another entire team (so as not to incentivize 3rd party clean up) 2 teams throwing themselves at 1 means that the kills and deposit rewards still allow the team to qualify? But that also means if a team is able to start popping off late game with kills, they can theoretically make a comeback if they get a deposit or 2 then roam for kills on cooldown.This also runs the risk though of allowing teams to snowball. Maybe have the scaling based on how much who you kill has? So if you're in the lead and feeding you're giving a lot more?
I thinks it's a good step in the right direction, as taking away a reward for playing objective due to TDM just seems like bad design no matter how you play it. Now, they just need to play with the values of timers and objective and such to help better fine tune that economy.
@THiiXY Aye, firstly, there's absolutely no need to thank me for watching! It's hard finding people actually talking on The Finals, so I appreciate the effort you put in; Especially saying in the video how you're open to other views and expanding in the comments with what might have affected your own view and what youve heard from others in the highest lvls of play so far; That's commitment and I once again appreciate it!🙏
Anyways, I was thinking more on how to address the diving issue the medium tokd you and I was wondering your thoughts on adding additional scaling to rewards for kills based on conditions? These conditions, of course, being set around trying to discourage the toxic traits and strats and create more avenues of gameplay/strategy.
One I had was rewards for being the team to singlehandedly team wipe another team; This causes TWO things to 3rd partying-If you want the cash incentive or to come out on top of cash during a third party (especially if theyve been defibbing), you'd have to let one team at least fully revive again. Killing 1 or even 2 of each team wouldn't be equal to getting a wipe on one. BUT it also means stealing a kill would prevent the original team from getting that bonus-allowing for disruption and adding risk to chasing.
In regards to having a lead and throwing yourself at a team to make sure they dont advance, the Second scaling would be around how many cash outs you have-NOT deposits, which COULD theoretically allow for plays of depositing a ton and allowing steals only to farm that team but idk how that farming would go at high levels? This also means that trying to get a double cashout over deposit could backfire; Teams might prioritize farming you.
I know some people might be disheartened by the concept of being able to self wipe-but I still believe it holds the same, if not greater value than before and plays into the idea of a game inside a game. The value moreso if the scaling were added, is it better to self wipe and not let them get the bonus and have them get the cashout, increasing the rewards YOU get for killing them?
Anyways, thanks for reading!
I have an idea about the team wipe penalty. Maybe should be like a count of time wipes. For example, the first time you get wipe you lose like 5%, second time 10%, and so on so on... With this you get rid of the people just running around careless at the beggining of the match, maybe...? Or maybe if you get team whipe 3 times in a row you lose X% of the cash, something like that. The last idea it's basically how the game works, the more money you get the more you lose when you get wipe but that's alredy in game.
Another idea i have is to reward the steal depending on how much of the cashout time has passed. For example, if you steal the cashout as soon as the enemy put the vault in, you get an X% of the money + the money you are stealing. But if you steal it at the last second you get less % of the money. The % depends on how much time has passed since the team put the vault in.
Ohhh okay yeah that's also an interesting take with it, or for example instead of "coining" in you could "pay" your way back in if you get eliminated/wiped so it changed the factors
@@THiiXY Yeah the pay part is great, but idk if my idea and yours would me the people too scared of fighting in some instances.
They could balance the removal of team wipe penalties by increasing the respawn time after wiping
I’ll have to see how the changes feel, but I’ve always been pushing for cash loss on team wipes as it’s one of the only ways to allow some other teams have a chance in a match sometimes
I like the removal of losing money when wiping just because it removes the level of punishment you get after getting 3rd partied. If you spend 2 minutes fighting a team and win and then immediately get 3rd partied with only 1 player left you still keep all the cash from the kills you got and the team that wiped you gets less cash out of the interaction because they only killed 1 player. It makes just waiting around for a third party less viable, but I do think the cash you earn from kills should increase throughout the match to match the increase of money on cashouts. I think a team with almost no kills shouldn’t be able to beat a team who has the most kills in the lobby by pure spawn luck.
Yeah good points you've made, I think that it's one of those double edge sword situations because I think maybe instead they could have reduced team wiping, I think 30% was quite harsh but I think maybe I'll need to get used to it.
Good vid, man! Pretty comprehensive coverage of everything, though I hope you're getting your rest (you sound a little tired). Please remember that we all appreciate what you do for the community. I have more thoughts, but I think the best course of action (and this goes for other commenters as well) is to get on your discord and actually contribute to the communities. Keep up the solid work, and thanks for all the weekend content. It's awesome!
P.S. I think Willfromwork had a good vid about the new release. He also is a bit conflicted on the changes, but since he talked about it while he played it, it didn't seem all that bad. Time will tell. This game can only get better guys, let's help, not, discourage the community and the devs. I love this game!!
Thank you for always supporting with the kind words Solcres! :D Yeah I'm cooked right now with all the background stuff, work and then trying to fix some things with FPL haha it's a very difficult thing to do but still it's worth it :) Yeah I think WillFromWork is probably the new #1 creator for THE FINALS in terms of outreach so I hope he still makes content on the game too as he has been :)
Yeah I think removing the team penalty solves a very interactive part of tournaments specifically.
Had a cashout session where the penalty just made us hide in corners of the map when we would qualify anyway as long as we did not get wiped.
*solves a very non-interactive part
I gotta say, I love the no team wipe penalty change. How many times have we all been in the lead or 2nd & the best play is to hide to avoid a wipe? Now you can go revive your m8s, you can go for that extra cashout that your team doesn't really need at the end, all without fear of getting knocked out of the qualifying spots. The fighting can go all match long every time now & I, personally, think it's gr8.
Remember this might only be here for this stop in world tour! Experimental
Yes very true!! Experimental and not final! This is a good chance to see what changes are good enough to stay as well for example :)
Saving this for a watch later, know about the changes from the dev blogs and light players freaking out in the comment sections of other videos but can’t wait to see how you feel
ahaha well let me know what you think :)
@@THiiXY Cash wipes being removed is literally the worst change. Third partying is going to get so much worse because people will just send final cash boxes looking to grief for kills. Everything else is pretty solid, Dash was broken glad to see it reigned in a bit, lights can still be looked at, 90% of the player base struggles against them and I see the heavy being nerfed into the ground constantly, I KNOW SLEDGE IS COMING NEXT. Regardless, I told you a while ago that we should get a percentage of the cashout on deposit and play for the rest which is pretty solid. like they said it's going to be experimental changes and I know they're going to revert that. No wipe punishments aren't going to make coming back in a losing game near impossible people will just then troll and grief..
As a healer, the healing beam nerf sucks. Overheating occurs a lot more often now, back then I wouldn't even over heat my healing beam
Nice update. I would love to see Vegas eventually added to Power Shift or more maps added in general. Looking forward to more updates!
Yes Vegas on Power Shift would be a fun one :D
Like everyone it seems, I'm not sure about removing the penalty for wipes. That said I also think this could be a great change, or a good step in the right direction. This could potentially encourage more aggression, winning teams will no longer have a reason to hide and not participate once you're qualified.
I look forward to seeing how they adjust this, I think it could work out well once we've adjusted to the new pace of the game, and Embark further tweak this
100% and I was thinking as well that view wise it does mean that we won’t have any more of those camping strats as much, but then explaining to a new player that the team in 1st place is W keying etc late game because there’s no penalty for wipes is quite a weird statement now haha
Always having aggression is not nice though, it just super stressful and annoying some times. I think penalties should stay cause it leaves a wider range of strategies for the player to decide on to pursue. That way there's more of a risk/reward element to every decision. Also: teams on 3d or 4d place can decide wether or not they wanna go for a cashout or teamwipe a team to make it to second place. First place teams also have an incentive towards staying out of last minute cashout fights to avoid potential and risky teamwipes. Now it's just a deathmatch, because the winning team, that's been shitting on you the entire round anyways, can just go around and sweat without any risk of losing anything
@@THiiXY I keep thinking about this today, and I wonder if there's a middle ground. I feel like a scaling percentage of cash lost based on how much you have could help with the parts of third partying that feel bad.
If you're under 10k cash you don't lose any, but as you get more cash you lose an increasing percentage of the total, up to the original 30%.
This could alleviate the issue of having some teams just get beat up on and finish with only a couple thousand in the bank, while also maintaining the tightrope of aggression/avoiding wipes that are important for the teams in first and second.
Like you mentioned though it could bring about a return to the camping strats, but I'm still not sure what the perfect solution would be to all of this
Idk if this is too much but what if in cash out you team wipe a team and then your regen immediately starts for your whole team, your mag instantly, reloads, and you cooldowns are halved.
Thx for the fast upload ❤
Thanks dodo for watching as always
Getting rid of team whipe penalty is 80% good. Being great at playing objective and holding it down doesn't always translate to all the fighting that happens in between. You shouldn't lose progress just because you and your team aren't the best skirmishers in the lobby. I've played games where other players have kept us at the bottom of the lobby despite us cashing out every vault just by whiping us like 2 or 3 times after the cashout. I approve.
I think the sum up for the cashout changes is this:
Less reward through lucky steals, less punishment for being unlucky and or being overaggressive, many more rewards for staying active and making plays of any kind
I think it also has the controversial side effect of clutch steals not feeling as rewarding anymore.
The fact that team wipes are no longer a way to demote a high-cash team has good and bad sides... but I welcome any change of making cashout a little less random.
Team wipes can definitely feel like a punishment for starting a cashout if 3rd partying is the way to play right now.
Yeah exactly, I was initially thinking that another way to look at it is the time alive being super valuable, as it always has been ofc but now maybe it's stacked more because everyone else is earning cash faster etc etc...
I think they're cooking with the changes to cashout, it feels like this rule set will be better for the gamemode
I believe most of these changes were steps in the right direction but i believe a better compromise with the team wipe would be the more times you get wiped the more money you lose for example you could have the first wipe only be 15% and each wipe after it could increase by 5%.
Yeah I still feel like the wipe stuff should be there but 30% was a bit too harsh
I agree so much in the matter of the gaining cash is more balanced rewarding for each step of the game but the ''no money loss'' for me fucks up the whole point of playing defensive, now its only forward push push push..
I haven’t tried it yet, but I’m a bit worried about the changes for sure… the thing I like the most about the finals is that support players can actually thrive by healing/reviving/shielding/etc. removing wipe penalties cheapens dying a lot more now I think. In fact, it may even be detrimental now. If I revive my team mate, and he dies again right away, I may be giving a team an extra $500 for free which would be worse than just wiping for the team.
I can also already envision strategies involving opening a vault, quickly depositing it, then fighting for the second cashbox, and either double stacking or just straight up abandoning the first cashout to deposit twice. I don’t personally have as big of a problem with third partying tbh. If you have more than 2 teams, there will inevitably be third parties. It’s part of the game. That being said, I think this change encourages double stacking which sounds like something that not a lot of people want if they hate third parties.
I dunno. These are just my first impressions here, but especially the removing of team wipe penalties sounds terrible. I feel like there will be a lot of snowballing now and I dunno. I guess I’ll have to see.
Ohhh that’s also true I didn’t even think about simple things like a timed defib etc daamn, yeah exactly that too I was thinking a team could wipe just to manipulate and get a better spawn, because they get a freecam for the time to respawn and they can collect a tonne of info on where players are etc.
Maybe you’re right and third parties are just a part of the game, and it’s hard to fix but some of these changes did make the matches I played today feel quite fresh :D
@@THiiXY well that’s good. Hopefully I can try it out soon.
But yeah I actually don’t even know if it’s 100% necessary to even bring defibs now. A lot of times it might just be better for your team to wipe than get into a perpetual fight and still end up wiping. I mean killing the same dude twice is the same as opening a vault now lol and wiping doesn’t mean anything
Two theories why they removed the wipe penalty.
1) Successful third partying pretty much always results in both other teams wiping and neither of those two getting the cashout. Which is a double reward for the third party. So Embark tried to make that loss less heavy.
2) Embark's data showed that the smooth brains of most new players just don't get the Cashout mode and that hurts the player retention. I reckon that new players especially feel like team wipes are an unfair mechanic. We've all encountered those teammates that do everything they can to lose that sweet 30% of cash.
Yeah I didn't think about the psychological parts of the game as well - to a new player I guess having team wipes like that adds a lot of pressure to you as a player and then ofc team-mates being annoyed etc etc especially now with the chat feature could be another factor
I'm still undecided on team wipe changes, but so far I'm not as disappointed as I thought I'd be. I DO like the extra reward for depositing a Cashout. It forces players to focus even more on the objective before the Cashout is started.
It's not that bad to be fair after playing more matches, but I'm just talking about moreso the top end strategies etc would change, the higher skilled players are definitely going to buffet from this
@@THiiXY yeah the flow of the match is going to be completely different. Already noticeable in my matches.
I'm on PS5 and I still get stuck on the tournament knockout rounds screen when waiting to enter world tournament.
I can hear the crowd cheering and round starting but I'm stuck.
So it's not fixed.
Thinking about it now... the lack of a teamwipe kinda undoes the anti 3rd party changes in a big way.
Like for the most part. The changes will lessen the 3rd partying that makes a team lose a hard fought cashout. In early game.
But since teamwipes dont exist anymore. It allows the top team to play aggressive till the end. And while that sounds fine. We gotta take into account for the fact that this aggressive play can be used strategically. In a sense that the top players can heavily influence what team makes it in 2nd. By targeting a team they would rather not want to fight again
On paper its kinda cool. Your reward for being in 1st is that you get to influence what team gets second. And what one of the teams youll be fighting next will be.
But in practice, it could be pretty bad.... the change means that if your not in first. There will be a chance your team specifically will be singled out and 3rd partied HARD by the winning team specifically. And if they are in 1st its a good chance they are skilled because of the other changes.
So if that happens. Your team has to work their ass off fending off both the teams your fighting 2nd place for. AND first placers who are specifically targeting you and your squad.
The situation they have given us seems to point towards a higher chance of singled out for a 3rd party when it really really matters. And that is incredibly frustrating.
Which is... worrying.
I personally am hoping im wrong but... once people get used to the changes it might become a frequent thing
The main benefit is when you have like 30k in first during overtime, and it's better not to fight (which is just boring). Also when solo queue and your teammates dont listen to you saying to not fight and you want to put a brick in their skull.
I could see why they did this because depositing can sometimes be pointless during the last stages of the match and instead of giving up it could insentivise people to keep fighting till the end of the match. Also with the no elimination cash I think instead they could lower the amount loss as it prevents running while also still providing risk if you're team gets eliminated.
I feel like they made good changes for cash out except no wipe,
Because of getting a bit of the money when putting the vault in the Cash App encourages players to actually go through the vault because I had multiple times where no one goes for the vault and we’re all just fighting for one cash out or all fighting for cash out and there’s another team just getting money out for free with no combat. I do understand where they’re going from getting rid of it but I feel like it’s going to encourage players to do more risky things with less award
I really love these changes. I think it encourages players to actually play the objective more and it rewards teams who actually clean teams up. I was okay with the removal of team wipe penalties as well, but hearing your view on the changes does make me nervous (great explanation by the way).
I dont want this to turn into a deathmatch game fully and if you arent getting punished for dying or playing like a brainlet then people are just going to play hyper aggressive or fully rat until they can pick the player that are stealing cashouts.
All and all I think a net positive this patch, but I hope Embark will be quick to revert certain changes if they are negatively impacting the teamplay of cashout.
Yeah I agree with you, I think that overall this was a really good patch, it’s given a nice refresher to Cashout and it’s a step in the right direction, but wipes could be re-considered or maybe toned down? I don’t know maybe we haven’t done some breakdowns yet on scenarios etc :)
I think with the no penalties it may just be a test a way to make getting third partied more bearable
Definitely think this is a great step in the right direction. My friends and I grinded for a few hours today and it's probably the most fun I've had in the game. Playing aggressive while playing together is being rewarded and I'm all for it.
Yeah to be fair I've been enjoying World Tour but I usually do enjoy playing this game haha, I think maybe it's one of those things that can grow on me
@@THiiXY Maybe so! I do get the concern on not having team penalties. It makes the approach to the game mode a little too straightforward. I'm interested to see how this version of cashout plays out if and when a proper ranked system is in place. I'm really loving it so far though; I stopped playing after reaching Diamond in Season 2 and I am once again hooked.
I feel like the no penalty remove a bit to the idea of limited respawn because when both your teamate can't coin and they are waiting for you to revive them it's just easier to just die , i also think that it makes catching up almost impossible if you get the first 2 cashouts you don't even have to play bc they can't catch up with the 22k one and wippping you does nothing to them one idea i have is that when you wipe a team you get more cash than a single kill and that is proportional to the amount they own but not making them loose cash
Yeah that's also a good point, I usually call for us to wipe early game so we can coin in faster or catch players off heading to a cashout before they deposit etc, now we can use this strategy whenever we want etc with a freecam etc aha
Oof that change to the steal time is gonna mess me up so bad. I've gotten used to exactly how long it takes to steal a chashout, what the cashout icon looks like when it has enough time to steal, and how many "we-woo's" or alarms pulses it makes before the steal goes through ect. Not saying neccicarily that its a bad change its just gonna take some getting used to. I'm sure some others feel the same way lol.
Yeah I've been trying to listen to my recording back to learn it still struggling sometimes aha
ou I played yesterday, but I somehow didnt realize those changes.
new money gains are cool, but I still think the simple put the vault into cashout and then gain cash based on time it does the cash out for you... would be way better and force players to fight over cashout and not to wait for the right last minute steal...
not loosing money on team wipe is certainly a very very bad decision. Because it removes the play strategy where you can team wipe someone and get into second place instead of getting the cashouts.
looks like less emphasis on teams and more on your ability, if this works it could reduce the impact of bad teammates and give u more accountability over your teams loss
I am getting a weird bug where Vegas map removes all of my vibration in my PS5 controller. No other map does it
the reskin reminds me of tho supreme and offwhite stuffs in 2018 - changed the color and slap on some collab logo and we r done, lol they did the Big logo thing just like irl. But tbh I love this reskin better.
Agreed - 30% Wipe penalty needs to be reinstated.
In my opinion, these changes to cash bonuses from depositing or getting kills should be the main reason TO have team wipes still.
The good buff is actually a flame buff as the best thing about setting goo on fire is it spreads. On the platform game mode people learn not to put goo down as people just light the platform up.
Ohhh yea that’s also true too haha I didn’t think of that :)
The indirect downside to team wiping now is that kills count for more, rather than your team losing cash. I like the idea but there should be at least a 10-15 percent cash loss from a team wipe
Yeah I feel that it should still be there but a smaller amount for sure 30% was quite a lot to be fair
the 1 extra second on stealing, no minus 30% of cash on wipe, NO STEALING OVERTIME STILL (so now on 7 seconds i take my hands off keyboard no matter what and i win like wow amazing display of skill for a "ranked mode"), and being able to "potentially" see other player's rank in cashout styled ranked is honestly so bad. i just wish the devs would have like some internal testers with "a higher rank" when it comes to changing stuff for ranked and even balance changes before going live...
Genuinely I just want them to BUFF MELEE (holy it does no damage) and maybe make weapons drop like they do in cod, but you can only pick them up if they’re from your class (L=L, M=M, H=H)
Didn’t get third partied once out of the 4 tournaments I played 🤙 sweet update
Good to hear :D
Just wondering when i see you use the C4, I have stopped using it ever since it was heavily nerfed to now use explosive mines. I feel like I often get more reliable kills on enemies statues, on stair traps or objective traps than the use I'd have for C4. You can even use them to break ceilings and floors.
"Even you know you might be able to play in our community mathces" your talking about me 😢 (thats depressing and embarrassing lmao 😭🤣)
Personally, no penalty for team wipes is great.
Means on the E sports scene players will be less cowardly in their play style and won't feel as much of a risk to pull of cool plays.
Helps create clippable, shareable moments and makes the game more accessible.
Ahaha, as someone who streams my community matches for THE FINALS I'm down for that LOL
I think the update is great, they specifically targeted the most annoying parts of playing cash out espcially as a solo player. I don’t get punished for getting team wiped after getting third partied CONSTANTLY, I make’s teams actually play the objective, and getting more kills will benefit players than just camping.
The drifter set with the skull mask looks so dope I love it
Ohhhh I'll try it out thanks for the suggestion!! :D
@THiiXY it cinde looks like the taskmaster from marvel only the colors don't really match
Who gets the deposit cash if red team throws a vault into a cashout currently held by orange?
I still think that it would be the red team as it’s the actual deposit which is the reward - that’s what it’s like for example in the old system :)
No wipe penalties is crazy you could just run around if you put almost all to all vaults in the cashout spot you can win without fighting even if you get wiped.
I feel like the team wipe loss being removed is too new to judge. This change has a lot of positives but it definitely doesn’t punish teams as much as it should. Team wipes are supposed to be avoided at all costs, but now that this update is in place all you lose is about 30 seconds of play time:
Yeah, I actually said in a comment section that the new economy in THE FINALS is time (not getting wiped) haha, maybe you're right. I played WT today and had a good time but I always am playing this game so
8:06 You got this wrong. The white health regenerates as it always does. It's the yellow health that doesn't.
Yes I put this in my comment section but I think I forgot to pin it aha thanks for reminding me
I feel what you’re saying at the highest level but even diamond/plat you get teammates going for the no scope clips and look like they’ve never played before. I’m personally sick of my teammates throwing and making the cash I got just dissappear. I feel like the timer being longer would fix it but it’s already annoying to get a timer reset enough that people still don’t want a team wipe. I feel like it allows the clutch plays of stealing the 1st or 2nd cash out actually matter more because how it was the 1st cash didn’t really matter and you’d probaly team wipe it away if you won it
kill cash increase was too exaggerated, maybe 300 or 350 would be better if anything.
no penalties on wipes is quite weird too, let’s hope they find a good balance or just revert because it didn’t seem like an actual issue
as a medium healer, the heal beam nerf was a good balance to it imo, i think the ability to essentially leash a heavy and turn them into a raid boss for a whole fight was definitely a bit op. this reduces the healing potential and also puts the skill ceiling higher imo.
I feel like when I played this game (not very long) it shined a ton in gunplay. As an aim trainer main, I really loved gunfights in this game. It sounds good to me that more fights are encouraged. I prefer elims being more important than accounting for every threat. Don't get me wrong, there's a skill to that, but I already only play power shift because its respawns with 1 team vs another and 3rd parties dont happen. I dont find it fun to account for 3rd partying, it turns me off from most of this game and battle royales entirely. But when I just get to have gunfights repeatedly? Love that. That's the fun I have in this game as a player with not a lot of hours.
Yeah I agree with you to be fair the gunfights are actually pretty fun, on top of that the guns are well made & thought out spray patterns are not too punishing, I used to be heavily into aiming etc and spray patterns and in my older videos I was a tonne more accurate but YT/content etc I had to take some sacrifices
@@THiiXY dw not judging your aim lol just praying for 3rd partying to go away. I also play overwatch and it seems game devs don't realize some challenges are so unfun, like counter swapping in that game and 3rd partying in br's
Team wipes being removed is an indirect buff to light, which could have been intentional as it would lower the skill floor to be useful instead of going in dying cause you have the hp of a fly. The deposits being buffed is also a buff to gateway however people will more than likely care about countering that by destroying a floor with ks/rpg/barrels.
Yeah there's a lot here that's changed overall with the contestants and gadgets indirectly aha
@@THiiXYI don't like team wipes being removed but they did say they would experiment this season, so at least they are trying
I like all the changes other than the removal of team wipe penalties. I have had the least fun playing WT this season so far with these changes.
I think this patch is dedicated to get rid off campers, which are everywhere especially at higher ranks. But i have no idea how this will actually impact the game. Anyway let's give it a chance.
UPD: Basically Embark's statement is: Stealing a cashout is BAD. Defending cashout is GOOD.
You really have to look at the big picture with the TeamWipe change.
Instead of worrying about losing 30% of your earnings you have to worry about giving the enemy $1500. Embark is trying to stop penalizing teams that wipe and get their Cashout stolen at the last second.
This is a huge improvement in my opinion.
Yeah maybe you're right, I just feel that there's some other things you can do aside from thinking about the $1500 or no team wipes - for example you can manipulate your spawns without any punishment, have a freecam to see player positioning etc etc
@@THiiXY Yeah, i think you’re right tho they may have created a new issue by solving another one.
Btw Love your content m8!
With it the old way it didn’t teach the player base to play more conservative anyway.. Solo lights running in getting quick scope clips is going to happen with the loss penalty or not. I think its welcomed
lol that’s true I guess
Increasing the time to steal a cash out is beyond me now there is no reason to try and steal anymore
cool idea: let the players be able to spend money they have earned through the game for cosmetics/weapons/etc. thoughts?
I like the change to the cash out mode cuz it rewards players like me who go 12-1 and still lose cuz now maybe my kills earned us jus enough to make it to next round
Yeah that's also a good point, but I think the overall fear is that players "might" not play objectives and focus moreso on getting eliminations. 12 kills = $6000 so sure it can contribute but idk then it's the same for other teams etc etc :)
I do believe that removing time for a person to play at any level is a good lesson in itself for making brash, none cooperative decision. When you then remove points from the team then person who did play for the objective may undermine their correct way of play. My point is that if you remove point it only hurts the people who are playing optimally not the die hards which are set it there ways 😂
Yeah I mean there’s quite a lot of manipulating you can do with these changes too though - think about wiping on purpose to get a better spawn (with the benefit of a freecam so you can see where all the players are etc) but overall these changes are a step forwards
@THiiXY you do strike a good point, free cam is kinda op in a 3rd party fenzy that the finals (along with other reasons). I appreciate your answer.
W update w cashout changes love it so teams will have to balance between getting kills ad cashing out and i played it today the game is so much competitive now damn beautiful to see it , W W for the update😂
The punishment for a full team wipe was really bad for people who were already winning. They would just sit there and do nothing for 30 seconds to a minute of doing nothing but chatting with their team and avoiding all confrontation
Yeah I agree, but also now the team in 1st can dictate who qualifies (helping a worse team) because they also don’t get punished for it - maybe not the end of the world but could be quite annoying aha
Where can I look up current in depth stats for weapons?
www.thefinals.wiki/wiki/Weapons
I reaaallly like the changes, the game feels way less punishing, actually defening feels more rewarding and theres way more 1v1 team fights. (played 5h new update so far) especially in word tour where you are basically grinding for the cash its always such a bummer to loose your hard earned money. And most important it felt like there was waay less "staggering" where 2 mates get killed and then theres this time period where you have to res them and then mabe your mate gets killed again (bc 2v3) and its just costing time where you cant contest.
Yeah that's another way to look at it too, maybe I need to play more games to get used to it, but for me it's just a crazy scenario because then end game players in 1st have a lot of freedom to control the game - and the outcome, but maybe that's just something that we can't control
Haven't tried it yet but I think I'll prefer getting big cash from team wipes over losing cash from getting wiped.
Yeah maybe instead we can get a % of the wiped teams current money so then it’s not about also going after the worse teams just to farm money from them
I think if you get that much money just for putting the cash box in then it should be a little more difficult like maybe having to encrypt it
Yeah that’s an idea too :) I did enjoy throwing it in through from long range haha :D
IMO removal off team wipe cash loss is a needed changed to remove 3rd party meta. Now you are not punished for defending cashout against 2 teams. Without it there would be meta to start a cash out and literally 3rd party your own objective.
I like their focusing on wining based of teammates and skill
There had to be some benifit to depositing the cashbox. Sensible imo
The majority of players don’t think when playing already. This will surely make them be even more brain dead. I hate that games need all modes to be casual friendly to survive. Like if you aren’t good (idc the reason) then don’t play that mode. Don’t make everyone else bad because you are.
Bunch of new stuff. Waiting for the download...
I like playing dash with the light and I believe it did need that extra cooldown time lol too zippy going against another light with dash
Ahaha I love washing two dash lights fight it’s fun :D
Maybe if we get only Team Wipes penalty removed for the team defending a Cashout?... The money earned by kills I don't think is good because it encourages TDM mentality.
3 stack light grapple + portal double barrel. Kill and kidnap all cash boxes. stack 30% all game. Wipe all you want.
THE FINALS
I feel like the team wipe cash loss was frustrating but i think they should still be rewarded for the squad wipe. No with the new 10% cash reward that would be the most balance
Yeah that’s true actually, maybe they can take some bonus money to be rewarded to the team instead, as now sure $1,500 to a team is quite a bit but if everyone’s getting more money now across the board it’s not great, maybe a % of their current money? Not sure but it’s a shout
@THiiXY Yea will have to see how it plays out. I'd imagine they will change it up somewhat depending on how it feels in game.
Wish they’d have full sets like that shotgun but for everything. Iirc they do put them out separately here and there and makes sense business wise but I’d like entire sets. I like too many of them but don’t use the weapons they release them for lol
100% I said this a while back that people would love to have sets rather than slowly buying and waiting for everything or then having just random colours or themes for their loadouts haha
About the team wipe change, it doesn't have to be something so... logical. It could just be something as simple as loosing progress feels bad, that can in everyway be enough to loose players. Example (not of loosing players, but something illogical being the problem) being an old fps game where they had to nerf the sound of a weapon, the two sides had two "different" weapons, with the exact same stats, recoil, rof, everything except for the sound and weapon model. But players were statistically better with one of them because of the "heavier" sound the weapon made which made players more confident.
I also think team wipe coin loss might be an issue where the IDEA of it seems fun but in game it's not. Kind of how people will dream of more realistic games and yet when such games come out no one plays them, because it's just tedious and fluff between all the fun stuff.
Another point is just that I don't think it really matters all that much, I mean sure there have been a couple of games where the team wipe has made a difference for me but that has been maybe 1/16th of the games I've played with it most of the time just making me and my team hide away in a corner for the last minute or more which is just boring.
Yeah you’re right I guess I didn’t think about the psychological side of it, in contrast I was really thinking about all the things you can do with the game now that punishment wipes aren’t a thing - for example on purpose wiping to get a better spawn, and having freecam during that time to gather info on everyone’s positioning etc which could be done just before the vault phase
Hmm yeah, that's true, might lead to more *dirty* meta gameplay...
It's probably best to wait at least a couple of days since it takes a bit of time for everyone to find out about the changes and the meta to change.
So I guess I could personally go either way on it, at least for now, but definitely not something I'm gonna stop playing over regardless of how it pans out.
I think erasing the whole wipe penalty is too much, maybe decrease it from 30% to 10% I guess, what I'm saying is that there's more risk to being wiped rather than just time loss..
i think the changes are good, EXCEPT there should still be a 15% loss of cash for a team wipe, so you can still clutch a close win off it
Removing team wipes cash losts is amazing. I mean the time penalty is already ridiculous especially with limited coins you can use so now atleast its not so bad to be wiped. Wpuldve prefered if they decreased respawn times and made coins instant respawn but keep team wipes cash lost but this is not bad too