Why Has Writing Gotten So Bad In The Last 20 Years? - Chris Gore
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- čas přidán 20. 03. 2022
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Chris Gore is a writer, comedian, author and television personality who has built a solid reputation as a hilariously outspoken voice in the entertainment world. As a teenager, Chris founded the brutally honest magazine Film Threat, which began as a fanzine while he was a college student in Detroit. As Film Threat evolved into a respected national magazine, he relocated to Los Angeles. The print magazine was retired in 1997 when it was re-launched as a web site. FilmThreat.com found a huge audience online and was named one of the top five movie web sites by the Wall Street Journal. Chris has appeared as a film expert on MSNBC, E!, CNN, Travel Channel, and Reelz Channel. Chis has also hosted shows on FX, Starz, IFC and G4TV’s Attack of the Show as the show’s film expert. His weekly movie review segment DVDuesday was among the most popular on G4. Chris is also an author, having written The 50 Greatest Movies Never Made and The Complete DVD Book. His book The Ultimate Film Festival Survival Guide is considered the bible of the industry and is required reading at film school.
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'Because sometimes the only way to feel good about yourself is to make someone else look bad, and I'm tired of making other people feel good about themselves!' -Homer Simpson from 'Dead Putting Society'
Holy crap this was insightful. I just subscribed.
Film Courage….if you have the opportunity, ask Chris where he purchased that jacket! It’s awesome and looks good on him….
There’s a ton of good writing out there, it’s just suppressed and ignored by the outlets that could make it widespread.
So true, the movie industry wants to make on money what worked before and does not want to take a risk on anything new.
huh?
millions of scripts, of course that is how it is.
@@Wolfsheim23 When companies evaluate scripts, they do risk vs reward calculations. Even if a script is amazing, if it is completely new and different, some might be wary of taking it, because they are not sure how well it will do with audiences. So remakes and sequels, or things with a high profile name attached(be it a dictator, writer or actor) tend to be 'safer' bets. The quality of a story is subjective after all, but you can say, "The first movies made X dollars, so it is likely a sequel will make that much as well".
So it isn't people ignoring strong work on purpose, it is just a side effect to being risk adverse.
@@Lilitha11 So, take more risks and you'll have a fuller life...
Sounds like something my dad taught me to do...
Well put!
He's right about the life experiences, the Iron Giant was influenced by the director's personal experience of losing his sister to gun violence. He eventually pitched the idea of what if a gun had intelligence and didn't want to be a gun.
The original Book itself (Called "The Iron Man", not "The Iron Giant")was influenced by Ted Hughes' observations and criticisms of war and conflict. In addition his way of dealing with Sylvia Plath's suicide.
@@DR3ADER1 I didn't know that, aside from the title of the book, I was just talking about a wiki article about interview someone had with him.
Man that movie ...
That's interesting, Ive liked the Iron Giant since I was little, something about it is really special
@MaGuffintop
You know. It might be a situation like The Thing or Willy Wonka. It was not popular at the time of release, but the more people saw it the more they saw something special.
interestingly enough that was Hayao Miyazaki's critique of modern anime and anime movies. He thought a lot of younger creators were mostly really being influenced by his work and anime that came before them, instead of using their own lives and other aspect of real life (history, nature, true stories) to influence themselves.
Well, anime, manga and light novels are now a self-referencing world since almost 2 decades. The moment 2D animation stopped being a staple of TV, it was bound to be a self-centered cultural product made for a specific audience and catering to its interests. It has happened to many other media products and the rise of Internet made it even more possible. That said, Miyazaki should also look into the mirror since he has been rehashing the same story since he made Hols/Horus in the 60s. He sounds like a guy living in his nostalgia bubble since 40-50 years now.
It could also be studios denying the people that want to pull from their own experiences and favor those with a miyazaki style
“Manufacturing problems to experience adversity.” Wow… this is so spot on with our current social climate
yea, i'm just not sure if it's true that people don't have enough problems. Getting good work that pays your bills is a bitch, you got massive inflation, you got wars, you got pandemics, etc. Might not be the same people though
💯💯.
That was joked about in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (at least in the radio show) where people would create illnesses so they could feel the prestige of overcoming them.
I think it is beyond even this. People and companies and espec politicians manufacture problems in effort to show their value or worth, espec currently with the victim olympics some are playing.
privileged liberals writing about how poisonous privilege is
What he's expressed is true, but only half true. The other half of the reality is that, studios and producers only look for stories, scripts and even just ideas which emulate other movies, if not literally relate to and/or replicate them. That creates an atmosphere where writing something original takes an extra pair of balls, because writing already needs a solid pair of balls.
agreed, and it is a well known fact that most balls are meaty not solid
which just contributes to the problem...
Plenty of gems are punching through the studio system regardless
And there was a lot of trash greenlit by studios back then as well, we just don’t remember them because they weren’t mocked by memes posted all over the internet
Yep, well known fact that hollywood would rather play it safe, and make $10M on a safe bet, than to take a chance to make $50M on something new.
@@corpsefoot758 I have had a similar argument with my father about music. My dad says that music today is not as good as music from other eras, and his argument basically boils down to the fact that he's got a bunch of compilation/greatest hit albums of various era and artists. My point is this, you remember the great stuff from eras past, and that stuff has persevered, but you've forgotten all the mediocre music or outright crap that came out at the same time, often by the same people. My example was the Beatles, which are my dad's all time favorite band. Sure, he remembers Come Together, I Want To Hold Your Hand, Help, Eleanor Rigby, and Let it Be but he doesn't remember The Inner Light, Octopus Garden, This Boy, Doctor Robert or My Bonny. That's not to take anything away from the Beatles, it's just that not everything they did was amazing, or even good. They had bad songs, just like everyone else. That's really true of anything. Another example is Star Trek, any of them really but especially the original series. They did 79 episodes and there are at best 30 good ones, maybe 25 depending on how you parse it out.
@@pittland44 The funny thing is that a lot of those greatest hits weren't as popular when they first come out. If you look through the Top 10s, you'll see a bunch of songs that just disappeared. Related, Hollywood has been doing reboots and sequels for over a hundred years. Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein. Three Stooges Meet Hercules. A lot of early stuff was adaptations of stage plays and musicals. John Wayne wasn't exactly breaking molds with his westerns. Even a lot of Lucille Ball's breakout success was mostly vaudeville routines. She was a brilliant woman and ahead of her time, but even she knew one of her strengths was being willing to take a pie to the face during a dance routine.
I don't think it's a generation thing, I think it's a committee thing. There are still a lot of great films with great writing, just not great blockbusters. The biggest difference is that there's definitely less risk being taken nowadays when it comes to funding new ideas. Bad writing has existed as long as writing has.
Good point. They are also so focused now on giving people what they want, instead of presenting them with something fresh and original. Disney is doing exactly that with Star Wars, however not all hope is lost - they are still supporting new animated movies which are not based on any known IP.
With the current obsession with blockbusters and just high budget films, you could argue it's a return to the old studio system. Sometimes with producers and/ or executives taking charge of productions (look no further than Marvel/ Disney or Warner/ DC), it's all very risk averse.
It's a mix of what you mentioned. Film making by committee that is. However let's use Star Trek as a example here. The older series had writers who served or were children of servicemen. If you watch new Star Trek series. That militaristic chain of command is gone.
Yeah, i definitely think it has more to do with that than lack of talent or current writers having bad influences. There are always stories of amazing scripts that studios won't touch because they arent mainstream enough
I agree, and I've seen, as a writer myself, that there is a clear path that has higher chance of making you money, and if you spend years writing a piece of work, it's hard not to try and align yourself with what will sell even at the cost of the soul of it
I have some friends who are successful novelists. They were offered work in Hollywood but the executives immediately wanted to change their work so much they didn't recognize it. They realized the money wasn't worth it and walked away.
That's why George Lucas wanted the full rights to his movies. He didn't want another producer or director to change his stories
That's the issue. We rarely see executives taking a risk and giving free reign to the creatives to "try something new" and test the market. That needs for "safety" is killing us on every front. Our societies are becoming so risk averse we can't think outside of the box.
Star Trek Episodes 7 to 9 was written by Producers (Kennedy) and non-writing Directors (JJ Abrams).
@@jackxiao9702do you mean Star Wars?
This is spot-on. Movies today are made by film-makers, who want to make a film. Movies in the past were made by storytellers, who wanted to tell stories using film as a medium.
This might be romanticing the past a bit. As early as the 20s there were "boiler plate" films...films made by studios with a proven template and popular actor/actress that guaranteed easy ticket sales.
@@unluckycloverfield4316 Oh, I know there were similar films made in the past, they just didn't seem to be the norm.
@@beckoning-chasm that's only really because they were not preserved. only the really great films were preserved back 100 years ago. it wasent really till the 60's or 70's to where we started saving most things. the further back from home video being a thing, the more lost media there is. back at the dawn of hollywood, almost everything is lost.
Paycheck seekers. And "wouldn't it be cool-ers"
Agree completely. First and foremost, Walt Disney, Alfred Hitchcock, Billy Wilder, et al, were storytellers... MASTER storytellers... who used the language of film to tell that story... expertly... in their head.
I love all of these interviews, but I find Chris Gore to be the one whom I most agree with and relate to. Such a wonderful perspective and insight into creativity. Thank you for these.
So cool to see a legendary writer I follow on Twitter on here! Totally agree, Chris Gore and his personality make these videos fun.
Yeah me too, I seem to always click on the videos he’s in, (I feel really bad for forgetting his name but same with the black guy)
Kinda sounds like he’s a conservative, huh?
@@joshcantrell8397 At some point in life you realise that there's so much stupidity around. New fads, ideology-of-the-month, etc. True conservatism is to keep what works and adopt new things after careful consideration. Not like radicals of all times, tearing down the current state and hope that their pet theories will work.
For sure, he's on point...which is why I haven't watched a "modern" movie in some time and re-watch the creative authentic movies of the past....I can't handle the destroying of franchises by making non-issues their focus
It's creative inbreeding.
But I don't think it's the writers or directors faults. It's the executives only green lighting safe bets and then audiences voting with dollars for more safe bets.
I agree. Comedy writers who started their careers in stand-up rely on life experience and their own perspective when writing.
Exactly what i was thinking. The writers have plenty or even more life experiences, but the studios just want to play it safe. They dont want the "new" starwars as in a new ground breaking film. They just want to re-shoot the old ones and re sell them. We need to bring public domain laws back to what they used to be so people are forced to create new things
These are billion dollar businesses, they want billion dollar returns, they want and hire employees that fit in the box, not artists, of any sort, writers, directors, cinematographers or even FX creators (which is why all that high quality CGI looks like the same thing over and over and over again). Disney and their ilk aren't businesses capable of creativity. It's why they have to eat IP. It's why they keep catering to woke ideology.
@@RicardoTrevinoLohman Unfortunately the only way to fix this problem would be for people to stop watching these films, i'm hoping the fatigue will set in soon.
@@UnbeltedSundew What is woke
Thank you for this! My husband and I are Gen X-ers, and he asked me the other day why I barely watch any tv or movies anymore, when it used to be something we'd both do all the time back in the day. I couldn't put into words WHY fictional tv and movies just no longer held my interest, but listening to Chris's words here... he's pretty much nailed it, better than I ever could've.
This is placing the blame on the younger generation of writers but it’s the studios who are shaping these trends. Not only that, but most of the folks in charge of self referential Star Wars are in their 40s and 50s so…
As an amateur writer who has learned some of the most basic mistakes a writer should avoid, I am surprised how often these mistakes are made in movies I watch. Apparently, being a professional writer is not a requirement for writing a script these days.
Nope, it's nepotism. If you don't know someone in the industry already you will literally never get in.
@@robertcunningham1695 Studios nowadays are run by the sons and grandsons of great artists, they have no love for art, just for the money and to run the cinema business they inherited.
Nope... these days is all about who you know and how many followers you have social media.
@@paballomolingoane2009 doesn't detract from my argument.
What I observed, being an older guy who went back to school for creative writing later in life, is there's a lot of emphasis from pop culture for everyone to be a critic before having earned real ability to independently critique. Most of the critical takes from my academic peers were too often based not on conclusions they'd drawn or experiences they'd had themselves, but rather loosely based on jargon they learned from the internet (and rarely understood). That's not to say their input was always invalid, but critique without the conviction of lessons learned is too often useless for competent writing in need of genuine guidance.
The absolute same thing is happening in games, too. It's all so cannibalistic. I tell every designer I work with, "dig in the crates." Unlike music and movies, game developers have very little respect for the games before them. They aren't analytical about previous games, except for a select few that EVERYONE knows about. They don't even critically analyze games that are "broken" or "bad". It's quite troubling, tbh.
The problem I have with modern gaming is that too many developers and publishers think it's perfectly acceptable to basically sell games you can't fucking play because they've barely gone through Beta test, that was never a feature of gaming in the past.. I mean, sure sometimes games needed patches, but that's not even what we're talking about here nowadays, I'm having to wait about a year now after a game's official "release date" for something that's actually playable because I don't need the irritation of buggy crap (hello Cyberpunk 2077)
Outside of the Indi space and FromSoftware there has pretty much never been a game developer that doesn’t capitalize on what is most popular. I think this quote by CZcamsr The ActMan says this perfectly, “The latest gaming trend is the trend.”
@@scottmcmahon86 the problem with Cyberpunk was corporate mendling, should the actual devs have a say on where and when to release the game, it would have released 6-12 months later and not on ps4 and xbox one, who turn out to be a very loud crowd that didn't even care about what the game was about, I don't think most people that throw shit when the game is mentioned even know what cyberpunk 2020 is, they were expecting GTA in the future, and it was anything but, CP 2077 was a very narrative experience IMO, and it was quite well written, not perfect, but certainly higher level than your average 202X videogame.
On PC the game was pretty good day one, at least I didn't experience more than two bugs (glitched textures and an npc T posing). Don't get me wrong, it's clear the game was not finished, but it wasn't the shit show many argue it is.
@@javierortiz82 I had tonupgrade my computer before I could play Cyberpunk 2077. Started it last week. Game is amazing. Still has some stability issues, but the story, voice actor, the feel of the world, all are excellent.
@@javierortiz82 I disagree. When something is funded by a corporation, it is not unrealistic for them to set a timetable for a return on investment. Gaming is an art, and any artist will tell you it is difficult to say when something is finished, it is hard to put a timestamp on that.
The issue I see with most games that come out is a lack of structure and a cohesive plan, teamwork throughout the whole process, and a passion for what they create and care for their consumers.
Anthem: No direction, takes 7 years to get off the ground and a demo gets pooped out that the developers didn't even know that was the game they were supposed to make.
Almost all companies: The teams get hired and fired and swapped around all during development. As soon as one process is done that team is let go, then when they figure out they screwed up and need to revisit it, they can't re-hire the same people and have to get new people who have no idea what the original intention was.
Rainbow 6 extraction: That is it. This is the masterpiece of soul-less game design in which nobody cared about anything they worked on in it.
Activision, Ubisoft, EA, Bungie: Treat your player base like a herd of cows and milk them slowly for every dime you can get, while offering special rewards for the whales that buy the most.
I apologize for the long post, it is a passionate subject, but why else are indie developers catching up with AAA studios if not for these things? Hades was very close to game of the year, and look at what it beat out? It is absurd, but that is how commercialized the most lucrative form of entertainment has become. Without a love for the art being made or the people observing it, the end result is doomed to failure.
I started writing when I was 15. I knew what kinds of stories I wanted to write, but something just seemed off. It wasn't until years later when I really figured out that I just didn't know enough about life to really tell those stories and I know what I'm doing now is far superior due to the depths I can draw from to tell those stories.
And as others have said, there are a ton of great stories out there, it's just harder than ever to get those noticed due to everyone being able to get their story out there no matter how bad it might be. So a lot of it is a needle in a haystack situation and the other major parts are traditional publishers not wanting to take risks and focus on virtue signaling.
Hollywood has always been competitive. There was just as many people trying to make it when RKO, Warner and Paramount was at their peak.
The issue today is that the studios are simply not run by creative and are run by business executives.
The show Mad Men showed that battle with Don being the creative up against the executive business class that were really just college grads exercising control.
I disagree that great writing needs to come with life experiences, I for example research the things I want to write about, that I don't know about and I write, exactly what I had in mind, before I started looking into the topic.
Experiences do help, but its not what makes great writing.
Putting effort into your writing is what I'm meaning, if the heart for a story is there, you're going to need to put in effort.
@@desdonmishell954 I was relaying my personal experience for the type of stories and themes I wanted to write. I think it's possible for great stories to be written, but certain aspects an author tries to explore might turn out better if they have more to draw from when writing.
I totally agree that writing has to come from the heart, from experiencing something. It's similar to 'writing about experiencing a car wreck' versus 'living through a bad car wreck, then writing about the experience'.
I noticed that too, also subtly has totally been lost. The newest version of the twilight zone would just slap you in the face with the political message where as every version in the past would cleverly weave it into the story and slowly reveal it throughout the story. It's kinda sad that we've lost that ability in our writers today.
Well that's a product of today's activist writers, they have no clue how to be subtle because "the message" is what everything they write revolves around. In the past they were a lot more clever about any messages because they wanted to make something greater than some activist message.
There's no shortage of great scripts out there. They just don't get made unless someone very powerful gets behind them.
And then they get injected with woke ideological nonsense and get completely ruined.
Yup, and that's exactly what happened with Star Wars. No one wanted to make it until one guy in the industry, whose name I don't recall because no one celebrates him for what he did, fought for George Lucas and pushed hard to get Star Wars made. He believed in George, and without him, we wouldn't have Star Wars, because it would've remained in script form and not out in public for all to see.
I would argue, that is easier to get a show or movie made with all the streaming channels with 2-5 movies and shows coming out from original streaming source. For example netlfix drops 5 new movies a week or maybe 6. Now is true about some not being pushed, but as someone who wants to be a filmmaker, is filmmakers who don't risk it and work on minor scripts for example making one where tou sit on a table and just talk.
@@G360LIVE It was Alan Ladd Jr.
A documentary about him was made recently called LADDIE. He was a champion of talent, the polar opposite of someone like Tom Rothman.
@@G360LIVE Actually EVERYONE celebrates “Laddy” for what he did. There’s a great documentary about him out right now.
I'm starting to think that i subscribed to this channel specifically for the Chris Gore segments.He always nails the issues.
You’re not alone. 👍
That's why I'm here.
I'm with you on that one.
it's weird that he's actually on here!!!
considering ALL THE OTHER people she interviews have opposite takes. they all seem very identity related. all the others I mean
'Chris Gore channel'.📈
Social media is affecting the human brain, interaction and sensitivity, that’s a fact. A vessel of superficiality. This has to negatively influence writers in a way that never happened when we didn’t have that - and of which they’re probably unconscious about. The storytelling, material, struggles, ideas will definitely show it.
At the end of this. It's all about hyper sensitivity. Seems like everyone's feelings are in a blender. People can't handle it. Love this guy. He is spot on
there's a lot of great writing in indie and low budget films. the problem is how ridiculously difficult it is for an outsider's ideas to be adopted by the major studios.
It has always been hard to get a gig at a major studio because everybody wants to get in there. There is nothing new in in that.
The major studios in the 1940s era as a whole made more movies than what the studios release today.
The issue today is that the studios are not as creative as they are run by business executives.
It's like gaming. True ground-breaking gaming is only to be found now in indie titles.
The big problem is that mainstream culture is no longer interested in promoting excellence. That's a serious issue. Just take sculpture: there are tons of talented sculptors nowadays, many surpassing the masters of Renaissance. Common people finds them and like their work, but when it's time for public art, only untalented hacks from art schools gets the contracts. It's not normal that quality and uplifting art is traded by the plebs and considered as irrelevant nonsense by elites. It's just weird. Normally, these people would rise not only in selling stuff to a niche a customers, but to world wide recognition... it's just sad to see all that talent wasted...
@@sailormatlac9114 that sculpting analogy was spot on. The mainstream has little appreciation for quality creative work.
Life experience is important, but I suspect the biggest problem is that modern writers don't have as much curiosity about the world. To choose an extreme example, Robert E. Howard lived his life in a small town when that was much more isolated than today. His knowledge of the world came largely through books & letters. Yet he was still able to create memorable fiction and imaginary worlds. Ursula LeGuin was complimented once for her description of sailing in one of her stories - but her only personal experience involved sinking a rented boat in a 3 foot deep basin. It's impossible for a single life to encompass more than a fraction of human experience but you can learn from other people's experiences as well. But you have to be curious about other people & places and I think that's lacking these days.
Even though people travel more than ever now.
Robert E. Howard is a great example. I read his biography after reading all of the Conan and Solomon Kane stories and was stunned that Howard wasn't widely traveled, because he wrote like someone who was. He traveled in his mind.
@@NarutofightsHD1 It's all relative though. Before the railways, you would probably travel for more than a week to just traverse the length of England whilst trying to avoid highway robbers, for example. Now I can be in New York in just a few hours, eat at the same fast-food restaurants and book my hotel room over the internet. Probably up until the jet age, travel really was **travelling** with the possibility to have all sorts of unusual life experiences and see places you probably couldn't even imagine. Now the world is a small place. What really tests us and helps us grow today? It surely isn't getting on a plane to go shopping or laze on a beach?
True! And nowadays people are more egocentric and arrogant; they think they 'got it' and don´t have anything more that they need to learn.
I think people are plugged in so much they don't have time to germinate their own thoughts
In my opinion you don't need a fantastical life to write a great story. You just need a good imagination and the ability to express it in a way that connects with others.
Imagination helps, but without life experience you can't express that imagination in a realistic way. And if the tale is too unrealistic, if it lacks core truth, it won't connect with the audience.
Ask an average 8 year old to make up a story. It might be somewhat imaginative, but if you pay attention the inspiration will be obvious, and the drama will be absurd, or non-existent. It's not a good story. Imagination alone isn't enough to make good stories.
Imagination might not even be the primary tool for good story telling. I've sat and listened to very unimaginative old bastards spit some of the best tales I've ever heard. Their ability to find shared experience with me (the audience) and use that as the foundation for their memories is what made them good story tellers. I'd gladly listen to someone's lived experience told well, then an imaginative but wildly unreal tale.
Even the greatest fantasy and sci-fi fiction has some underlying solidness to it, some realness or truth, and that acts as both the skeleton for the story and as the anchor the audience uses to latch on. If you don't know love and heartbreak, you can't write about it without missing the mark. You might think you nailed it, but the rest of us won't. You don't know what poor is unless you've been poor. Unless you've been on an adventure, your adventure story will just come off flat.
"Write what you know."
~Steven King
@@stevedasbru Those are great points. What your saying rings true.
@@stevedasbru Being very perceptive, in my opinion, can absolutely make up for lack of experience. Experience doesn't necessarily has to be your own, the people you know and their experiences will leave an imprint on you too. What you learn and what you're legitimately interested in too.
I feel like you're being too absolute in the *need* to experience something to be able to portray it "accurately". GRRM has no children nor has he fought in any war or served in office, yet his portrayal of warfare, political intrigue and interpersonal relationships, specially among parents and offspring, are the most critically acclaimed aspects of his work. Same goes for thousands of authors that've written about subjects they have no first-hand experience with.
Simply developing an ability to relate deeply to others will take you further than any single individual experience. I know plenty of authors that talk about their experiences and it's the most drab and emotionally vapid thing ever if they just expect you to be wowed by how "deep" that was.
It is possible to write a story from the imagination about a person who travels alone and has no contact with anyone. To write about different people, you need to have the experience of real communication with other people who differ from you in opinions and views.
But more experiences and a broader perspective is always a plus
Love this!
It's only when you watch older films with unique plots and stories that you really start to see that almost every movie over the last 10+ years has been a rehash or reboot of something that came before.
My first (awful) novel was written between 7am and 8am each morning over a period of 4 months. 1000 words per day. Everyone asked the same question, "Where did you find the time to write a novel?"
If people had any idea how much they could create with the time they waste on social media...it would blow their minds.
This means only that you do not know the original these films copied from.
@@TorianTammas example?
Over the last 30 years, to me, it feels like the entertainment industry does not want writers. From seeing the writers strikes of the late 90's to creators that have been screwed out of their own creations. I feel that if the entertainment industry could find a way to not have writers at all they would do so in a heartbeat. I think this has been one of the main reasons the industry is buying up IP's everywhere you look. If you buy the IP, you buy all the stories that go with it and in doing this you don't need to hire more writers to make a movie because the director can slap something together with what has already been written.
Film fights writers. But Television welcomed writers. We had gone through a golden age of television drama, which infortuinately is succumbing to the lack of quality of the new writers.
Perspicacious comment.
Two words - artificial intelligence.Screen writing, app coding and their kin will be a massive intellectual property disrupter.
Your feeling is been proven wrong by what they do after they buy the IP. They don't use the past stories. Marvel, DC, Star Wars, Star Trek were all bought and then the stories that came before were pretty much ignored. They Buy IPs for name recognition. That is it.
@@kelmohror6960 disagree, it will rip off pre existence source material like modern studios did
Chris Gore hits it out the park every time. Such honesty and candor that you don’t find anymore. He also gives the best movie reviews on his channel too.
What's his channel called?
Nevermind i found it :)
Film Threat is the name of his yt channel, for anyone who could be wondering.
Sorry didn’t include name of channel on my original post. The livestreams are awesome that he has with the Editor-in-Chief of FilmThreat, Alan Ng.
how simple should it be to review films and other media... when it gets complicated you know somethings wrong ,to many reviewers are biased more now than any time in the past,at least in the past their weird and alternative views were demoted to the back page of a magazine or in a small column at the side of another page...
the mainstream is too concerned with "offending people" and letting heroes have real flaws. Like very good writing is out there but it rarely get's picked up because studios literally have to worry about how many people might claim to be upset by it and somehow that is now a genuine reason for something to fail
Love Chris's comments about parents. That reality he expresses is what made The Incredibles #1 great. Dialogue was right on point!!
Has writing as a whole really gotten that bad? Or have studio expectations and ideals changed for the worse?
Good questions.
Soul and Red are excellent movies.
They've changed. They have to sell to the world, not the US, so the stories are HUGE universal themes, not small stories for just an American audience.
The second one.
@@emhu2594 Absolutely. Also, you have all of Nolan’s films, Pig, Tarantino’s films, wherever Fincher gets his stuff from
Less than 1 minute in and he nails it. Writers today are created in a factory, not shaped by real life experiences
And when you put them all in a committee room and make them have the final say on what the end product will have, it becomes no wonder why western entertainment is suffering. Everything is now paint-by-numbers schlock that's designed to please an ideological hugbox of board members as well as their equally-brainwashed cronies in the media. There is no room for individuality to shine through.
In my time of enjoying eastern media, specifically from Japan, something I've found throughout all of it that I've partaken in, good and bad, is that there is an overwhelming sense of individuality, from the art design, to plot elements, to characters, to philosophy, and to even just small details (e.g. Hayao Miyazaki's love for flight, Gen Urobuchi's struggle with nihilism, Eiichiro Oda's love for absurd proportions, etc.). And this individuality can only be born because these people don't just consume and regurgitate existing products, but live to hone themselves, and it's through their craft that experience manifests.
With modern western media, there's just no longer any sense of individuality anymore. Everything feels like a copy of something else, done in an already done style, showing no sign of change or evolution. Everything only appeals to the lowest common denominator, and that denominator today consists of these mindless drones who don't ask questions, just consume product, and then get excited for next product.
Most modern Hollywood film is garbage, but the few true auteurs and deep, layered storytellers who transcend the medium are still Western. Japan has a wealth of expression of aesthetic and interest, yet subtext is considered a very western thing and even Kurosawa was criticized in his own country for being a maverick and embracing this paradigm. Japan values stories to be told "on-the-nose" without elusive subjective interpretation. Stories that are anything but what meets the eye and have deeper, more esoteric philosophies are still distinctly Western. If Japan was as open to metaphor and allegory as they are creating the unique artistic moods and rich world building that they excel at, I'd be able to appreciate their storytelling as much as their imagery.
I have to disagree. It's not the writers that are produced in factories, it's the final scripts.
- Change (censor) the story so it sells in China
- Replace offensive characters
- Remove offensive jokes
- Rewrite scenes that don't score well in test audiences
- Replace the lead actor who the play was written for because of non-PC incidence
- Replace actors until every conceivable minority is represented
- Rewrite script to make above changes plausible
- Replace scenes that are in the way of a PG-13 rating
- Insert contemporary trends to appeal to the youth
- etc. etc. etc.
You can insert 10 different art pieces through that machine and they'll all come out the same. Art is dead, but that's okay because who wants to be an intolerant snob anyway?
At least we briefly got to enjoy Advanced Dungeons & Dragons.
Cinema in a factory now? What about how THOSE filmmakers wrote what they wrote? Where did that come from? Be quite.
@@Evanderj no, MOST are not, if they wouldn't make money. You mean YOU don't like them. Not the same.
He's right, but there's also a major ideological reason why writing is so bad right now. Everyone knows it, it would just take some people admitting they're wrong, so we just have to wait.
I can honestly say that my writing since I've gotten older is much better than it was when I was in my 20's and 30's.
You can't write about life without having lived it. That's why we discover new things in movies and books when we re-watch or re-read them later in life. We might have enjoyed them already as children, but we certainly didn't fully grasp them. And that makes you realize that you also could never have written them. You can't write about something you have never felt, seen and experienced. And part of that comes with age, because growing older and maturing and going through things that life throws at you is part of that. You can't write about something a 40 year old feels when you're 20. Your characters will always be lackluster.
@@LeutnantJoker Yeah but you can get over yourself and observe other people and listen to what they've experienced. How do you think Stephen Crane wrote Red Badge of Courage? He certainly didn't go to war.
It is odd that people want to be a "writer" without having any interest in reading anything, much less the best of everything. Many don't even seem to have an iota of curiosity to understand anything they didn't already understand at eight years old. (Many don't even know what "iota" means...or care.)
Probably because writers now are not attached to the subject matter. If you have no interest in the project then it will fail.
The other problem is ther are a lot od check boxes that have to be checked and many of these boxes make olit hard to tell a good story.
For an example compare a male protagonist to a female one. You can have the man get beat up, humiliated and lose in a fight, but you cannot do that with a women.
@@andrewcarlton6196 I take it that writers write about projects they aren't interested in for money and the boxes they have to check are made by network executives. The male vs. female protagonists have different fight outcomes, due to chivalry by said executives and writers, mostly male.
@@andrewcarlton6196 But on the other end of that spectrum you have the canonized "Fanfiction" of writers who want to change lore, without respect or care of other perspectives. Just like the coopting of existing stories to hamfist "the message", you also have a bunch of writers and directors who are legitimate fans of something, but want to redefine everything to their own taste. Thats a huge gamble on its own; but its being coupled with a disregard, or even outright malice toward other fans, and what resonates with various audiences.
The REAL issue thats now arising is essentially the elevation of "canon" to Gospel, and the psudeo religious war that has broken out over whose canon is the most legitimate. And what stands out, is how lots of modern scripts go out of their way to actively destroy a mythos in order to rewrite it as the new canon. This is different from a deconstruction, which has to work to justify a change or criticism by show its reasoning for doing so. Deadpool is sort of ultimate deconstruction of the comic book industry, and the super hero franchises they spawned, by poking fun at everything we know is wrong or weird about the trends..... but is never mean spirited about it. Granted there were many well deserved jabs at the industry that finally green lit it, and the whole process of getting there.
Where as the Kelvin timeline in Startrek was basically "f*** your canon, we're doing it our way now". Which wouldn't had been so bad....... had they not totally squandered it. Making the tolerable feeling of the first movie all the more insulting in retrospect; as the bitter pill of retcon lead to nothing of cultural value. And as bad as "that" sounds, the wave of gritty/dark TV shows turned out even worse. Pretty much the same thing that happened to Post-Disney Starwars. But credit where due, at least the Rebel's fork of TV shows weren't maliciously bad..... just very weak compared to its predecessors.
Reimaginations and updating of old stories CAN work. But the problem people are currently having is how the CORE of a story is being changed, while pretending to be the same story. Journey to the West has been adapted, retold, and altered a thousand different ways over the centuries, thats its practically the foundation of most modern stories. But at its core is a structure of story telling that just resonates on a human level. Case in point..... Enter the Spideverse. Here they took a selection of disparate AU spider-people, and with them drew a very visible through line to which the core resonance of the "Spiderman" mythos is reflected between them all. And in the process, "fixed" Miles Morales as a character, that had been struggling hard in comic form for a long time. Now, for multiple generations of Spiderman fans, "Spiderman" no longer just one version of Peter Parker..... but a recognizable core of character that can be found across multiple versions, with highly varied backgrounds. This did what had been done with Batman in the 90s; where multiple versions of the comic Batman(s) were distilled down to one resonant core version with the Animated series, and became the reference point for the character moving forward. Multiple different takes on Batman are still happening all the time.... But the litmus test for that juxtaposition and moral line Batman walks is easily understood with the 90s animated series. Nolan's Batman is that moral test being pushed to the extreme. So despite the difference in character, that struggle is at the forefront.. and why crossing that line matters to audience. Where as Snyder's Batman is just the Punisher with more Gadgets.
@@andrewcarlton6196 shit I do in my scripts otherwise its not believable
What they really want to do, is direct.
Always cool to hear from Chris Gore
I think right now the biggest problem is actually what writers are /allowed/ to do. I was watching some '80s and '90s movies recently and thinking 'oh God they could NEVER get away with this today'. The stuff that made me laugh the hardest was the stuff studios would not allow through- and that Twitter would destroy a piece over.
"Twitter would destroy a piece over." That right there is the problem. The mob has been given way too much power, and now the court of public opinion is also the executioner. Before we had any sort of social media we often had to rely on critics like those idiots Siskel, and Ebert. I never took their word for it, but rather would watch the movie clips they were reviewing to determine if I'd like it, or not. Case in point is John Carpenter's The Thing. It was widely critically lambasted, but now mysteriously it's a classic.
Now anyone can be a "professional" critic with enough subscribers whether they have proper knowledge, or not. Back then we had to get word of mouth to know if a movie, book, show, album, or song was any good, or (an interesting concept) have your own opinion on something rather than become someone else's mouthpiece. This era perfectly demonstrates the old adage "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
And many had to fight for it back then. Quentin Tarantino had to fight for the excessive violence he wanted. Mel Brooks had to fight for Blazing Saddles and the numerous times villains said the n-word.
Are you forgetful or to young to remember what fights happened against various film maker whose works are now classics.
I've thought about it. I wonder if it might be that the joke registers, but because of cultural reprogramming a woke minion might go "it's so rude" or "it's offensive, gosh"..
So you're racist, got it, glad you're crying
In the past Movie Makers selected the best writers available. Excellence was the objective. Now writers are increasingly selected on the basis of ideological purity.
And that is a far cry from excellence.
As a result writers make check off all of the necessary boxes without necessarily being a good writer or even a passable one.
History is filled with truly great writers who did not fit their eras idea of ideological purity. Oscar Wilde definitely did not check the boxes of his day.
We need to focus on getting the best writers possible and that will deliver stories that we flock to experience.
The Golden Age of Hollywood coincided with The Red Scare where many of the best writers were blacklisted and couldn't even write under their own names.
While it is a valid point, and certainly true in many cases, it isn't the only problem. Studios have become more obsessed than ever with the notion of a sure return on their investments. They have defaulted to mindless reboots and made-up formulas to create what they believe will be a hit. They have little desire to take chances. They want to minimise their risk, and have come to rely on already-successful properties, with no real dedication to storytelling and creativity. Studios regurgitate half-hearted remakes and sequels, and pass on new ideas and new talent. It's pure greed.
I think it could also be actors always wanting to have influence in films. Hollywood letting them add their own jokes or just influence the script. Where its the actor playing themselves instead of what is written.
It seems to appeal to the mass market though.
Transformers 2 was made without a script - just an unpolished outline/treatment because of the writers' strike. The film lacks a coherent plot or story but still took in $863M on a $200M budget.
What's fascinating about your statement is that studios, focused on greed as you say, also jumped on the 'woke' bandwagon with regards to mindless reboots and sequels. Whether its Ghostbusters 2016, Ocean's 8, Terminator Dark Fate, etc., in their attempt to go for an obvious cash grab, their adherence to the woke checklist actually ended up costing them money.
That's not all they want, they want large returns on their investments. If a 2 million dollar budget film makes a 20 million dollar return, that isn't enough, they want a 100 million dollar film to return a billion dollars. The barrier to creating such a film is obviously extremely high and so gets highly regulated.
That so truth
This is why schools used to aim for classical education for their students. Even if a child may never go on to future advanced education, it had value in giving exposure to classic literature, philosophy, sciences, maths. It aided in making the person more well rounded for having been exposed to it.
There's a book "Who Killed Homer" that does a good job going over how the death of the classical education is leading to a lot of ignoramuses out here that aren't benefiting from past human wisdom.
Cultural subversion and historical revisionism are weapons of Marxism. This has been done entirely on purpose.
@@haitolawrence5986 Good to see someone here who is aware of Cultural subversion!
I've thought for a while a lack of reading has hurt writing. I've found that reading improves my writing.
@@Lonovavir Especially your vocabulary is important. The more words you know, the more sophisticated your thought process may become. Hence why you should read and think as much as you can to evolve yourself.
hollywood was actaulyl a big part of this problem; all my life films and series from the US told me that learning was lame and the cool dude is the ignorant one; I always said FU; I can be laidback and a geek at the same time; I can love history and also like skateboards and grunge music, etc...
This is probably the best guest on film courage. I’ve been in the film industry for 15 years and am surrounded by people who are full of shit. This guy tells the truth. Thank you Chris Gore!
I love how Chris was a goofball who started Film Threat, and has grown into a cinema sage. Love to hear him talk.
JJ Abrams helped ruin both Star Wars and Star Trek. Lens flares be damned! Give me memorable characters and stories that will stick with me.
The only good movie he made in either of those universes was Star Trek 2009, everything else is literally garbage.
JJ is a rich kid with zero life experience. That’s why he sucks so hard.
Kinda encapsulates how much of a cultural lost decade the 2010s and potentially the 2020s might be.
The problem is the geek and fanboy is too commoditized. Before then they drew from all their influences and simply created quietly.
I wish we still got fantasy/nerdy movies like Highlander. Wacky premise, but a cool, fun, and sincere film that appealed to a certain subset of people, enough to make the movie a success. It didn't need to make ALL the money; it knew who its audience was and found them. That used to be OK for fantasy movies. Now, they all need to break a billion because studios can't manage budgets anymore.
Studios also has hand this shit happened. Chris terrio is Oscar winning writer and look what happened to him....
Moonlight, Wind River and 1917 were all created in the 2010s. You’re getting a bit too ahead of yourself here
@@corpsefoot758 Wind River was good the other two nothing special.
@@TheMasterQuests “Nothing special” compared to what?
The comforting feeling when somebody in the business puts words on what you've been feeling for so long. We need "outspoken" (i.e. honest) people like this who question things.
There's no denying that social media can be a huge time-sink. As someone who started writing a comic script during the Corona years, I can attest to the fact that time spent on creativity is far more rewarding! £
I'm currently on my third script for my graphic novel GH-057 STORY and it's been a blast to work on.
I'm an independent creator without a lot of recognition, though.
Chris Gore is a real fun interview
What are your thoughts on this video and the current state of storytelling?
I think writers nowadays are dictated a certain “lifestyle” and they don’t need to research the subject. I been taking a writing course and my teacher says “if you know it’s a reality then why research it.”
That's an interesting thought. Thanks for sharing!
I hope and pray that we are seeing a modern version of the westerns in our current generation. And I hope that just as the westerns eventually gave way to the arthouse Renaissance in the seventies and eighties, so too will this pandemic of pedantic bullshit give way to better films in the years to come.
Chris is 100% right about life experience being the most important factor. That’s how I enjoyed so many films, TV shows and stage plays growing up and why the systematic lack of that much has become a very serious problem.
Most people who want to write stuff today aren't Original, Lazy storytelling, More Reliant on Dialogue, lack Originality and have good ideas on paper but Mediocre Execution on screen. MemberBerries.
I'm glad Star Wars was addressed because there is no better example of how writing was in movies versus how it is within the same series. The last great Star Wars movie to be made was Empire and that seems to be something I'll always assert what with Disney's terrible mishandling of the IP having no end in sight.
Return of the Jedi was great as well just not as good as Empire. Remember Star Wars was a children film series.
@@bighands69 was it though? I don't think it was for kids in the original trilogy
@@dissonanceparadiddle
The original trilogy is most certainly a children's film. It was a massive hit even with children right throughout the 1980s. Star Wars was still playing kids matinees in the 1980s even though Star Wars 1 was made in the 1970s.
Toy sales were enormous as well and every kid would have loved Star Wars pajamas.
I love ROTJ better than Empire, but that's my opinion.
As for the SW target audience, it's such a joke. Lucas told he's writing something 12 y/o boys would like, because it sells the most. Sure, it worked, because he has made movies so accessible, they became popular hits. But you have to see the footage, most of the people lining in front of theatres to watch the OT were young adults. The simplicity and sincerity of the original films were beneficial, because the world of SW was already complicated enough.
These are great interviews. I've been enjoying the heck out of them.
If Chris lived in a remote tribal village, he'd be the "Wise Elder" to whom everyone listens.
Always a treat to listen to his thoughts.
That, or the old crank complaining about kids these days and their thunder spears and their rap music, ranting about how things were better in his day.
A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country.
What he's saying is largely true for blockbusters, but you still get a lot of insightful and interesting indie movies.
A psychologist once told me that the brainwaves required for creativity need to be low. If they're high, creativity struggles to emerge.
Being glued to a phone or addicted to internet increases those brainwaves. Meditation and detachment from those things is needed for generate the requisite inspiration to create good stories. The mind needs quiet. The problem with a lot of people nowadays is that they're addicted to the electronic drugs and don't think anything about what they lose as a result.
I was only 5 years old when I saw someone who was close to me die 1 meter away, you can experience life at an early age too, and if there's one thing I know, it's that everyone has experienced life in different ways, regardless of how old they are, I was born in the 90s and I can remember that we were more out playing in the forest and it was a way to cultivate creative ideas, I see people around me now in newer generations who just sit on their mobiles and surf internet so I understand what you mean, you miss out on big parts of life if you don't get out and just look around you and dont looking intently at the cell phone all the time.
The sad part is when you write a script that is influenced by life and unique stories and is NOT influenced but modern media you now sit with a script you can't sell... It's like we are not allowed to be unique writers
That is true. Studios are not taking a lot of risks, when I do see weird little movies I am amazed that a studio of any size decides to back it, just because it seems that the appeal to certain films is so narrow.
Love this guy's interviews 👌
I think he's right about life experiences. And it's not like you have to experience everything before you can write about it, but people who can write from a place of pain and experience do seem to have better insights into the storytelling process.
These interviews are rapidly morphing into a Chris Gore film school masterclass!
Miyazaki from studio Ghibli says this very same thing. He says what separates his work from others is he takes his influence directly from his daily life. A man who has a very unique and interesting lifestyle. Talented, successful, but has a fractured relationship with his son. Neglects family for work, so much life experience good and bad.
This isn't just true of films. In novel writing cliches exist because people describe things based on what they've read in other books, rather than what they've seen with their own eyes, forgetting that the very first writers to use expressions or phrases that have become commonplace were writing from their own experience, which was what made the expression fresh and striking at the time.
One of the best discussions that I've heard from a film maker...FANTASTIC...and this is a healthy way to process.
Off topic, but wondering if the Film Courage folks would do some videos on the dastardly 'adaptation' and how best to tackle one? Considering an awful lot of movies and TV grow from previously successful books I would appreciate your take.
Another great video. Thanks!
Sounds good. Thank you, David. We have this playlist on adaptation:
buff.ly/3ujwWYq
But it doesn't cover the 'dastardly' angle, only first steps, etc. Sounds like a great topic to cover. Any projects come to mind?
From the few I've watched, have been extremely happy with Netflix adaptations.
@@filmcourage The Wizard of Oz. I had to look it up, but there's at least two silent film adaptations (with the 1925 version going OFF THE RAILS in terms of the original story) prior to the Judy Garland production. It's not a topical example (if you asked me for one of those I'd go with The Wheel of Time or Foundation, both of which you've covered in part on other videos), but it's a good one.
Alas, the Wheel of Time and The Rings of Power are 'Prime' examples. The latter we've yet to see except a 1 minute teaser but it clearly missed the mark in my humble opinion.
It's like burning money to buy the rights to Jaws only to make any old movie with a shark in. Every aspect that made the source material worthy of purchase removed for labels and agendas. Then to be spoon fed the opinion we should like and accept this is... Well, I disagree.
Adaptation is like Fight Club, there are no rules. But a few ideas and opinions would be great 😊👍
@@davidwebb2568 I would argue there are rules for adaptation, but they're not exactly super precise. One of the best rules for adaptation I can think of is you have to like the story you're adapting. If you don't like what the story is about, what the message is or any of the major elements (the characters for example) then you should probably leave it alone for others to adapt. Case in point, I don't like the book "The Golden Compass." To put it mildly I don't care for the entire series. As such I would never dream of adapting it into a movie because I don't like the story or its characters so I would never do it justice, whether I agree with the message or not. That's why the new LOTR show will fail, because they don't actually like the source material, they don't even care about the source material, hell they don't even grasp that they might have the film rights to LOTR, but they don't own the story and they're treading on dangerous ground with a very obstinate, particular fan base. This is a train wreck waiting to happen and I can't for the showrunners to claim that people like myself who don't want this show are bigots.
@pittland44 Excellent point. I think production companies and studios are fearful of fans of these mega franchises getting their hands on them. Meanwhile far more renown writers who are there for the money write scripts that are flat or miss entirely the point of the universe in the first place.
So the projects fail even before box ticking and message they're trying to make. The writers can do it but studios are allowing below par work to hit our screens. Less cream rises to the top. Sad.
Life itself is the greatest draft, great interview as usual. 🔥🔥 🔥🔥 🔥
A minute in and already great video! I’m a writer (not as screenwriter or playwright) and I’m influenced not only by a lifetime of personal observation and movies but also reading many of the classics; I’m always trying to weave these influences together in an original way (as Lucas did). A person cannot write authentically about heartache, for example, without actually experiencing heartache. Sure, a gifted writer can research and “fake it” to a point, but there’s no substitute for marrying imagination with powerful personal experience.
This is why I can't stand it with Literary Agents ask "Name other books that's similar to yours" on their submission forms. I'm like, "None. If I'm writing a story that remotely reminds me of another book I read, I won't write it."
Sorry for the essay, but what Chris said really resonated with me.
Short version: This really felt validating, and it's helped me get back on the keyboard writing again.
Far from being influenced by great novels, modern writers actively despise and vilify the classics. Then they'll prattle in their social media bubbles about their latest piece of fan fiction.
People are spending their lives glued to their phone and social media instead of experiencing the real world.
'Because sometimes the only way to feel good about yourself is to make someone else look bad, and I'm tired of making other people feel good about themselves!' -Homer Simpson from 'Dead Putting Society'
I love Chris Gore!
He’s the best
It's hard to write good stories when you're more concerned about checking off SJW quotas.
Very cool and inspirational chat. Thanks! :-) xx
I think to a degree this is like the "people will stop talking to each other now that there's newspaper" myth. There absolutely have been works in the past that were influenced by other movies and literature and there wasnt anything wrong with that.
When I was a kid I watched Batman, the animated series. I didn't realize how good it was as a kid.
If you have never seen a well-written story, how can you write one yourself?
That was me but with samurai Jack, saw a few episodes as a kid, thought “this is good, not great”. Watched it again few years ago all the way through on blu ray and I love it, one of my all time favourite animation shows. The artwork is so simple but so detailed, the script again is so simple but he fleshes out each character really well. Love the use of cutting to certain shots of weapons, actions or details through the use of boxes like you would see in a comic. Tartakovsky is one of the best animators out there. Can’t wait for season 2 of Primal
How do you think the first writers wrote a well written story? Hm?
It's called the human condition.
People today lack empathy, are narcissistic and lazy.
You said it all. Art is rooted and imitation. You just have to find a way to put your own spin on it. Make it yours. Make it you.
Exactly and Tartakovsky is the only animator out there (that I know of) that seems to do that. He’s the only one that puts the effort in to make it stand out from everything else. Art is a visual medium and he nails that with Primal. You don’t always need to have speech to tell the audience what’s happening
I... disagree with you. Entirely. And also add it's an entirely self defeating argument.
1. I mean, I highly doubt great writers of the past studied literature and wrote to be deliberately engaging based on past experiences with fiction. Take Greek mythology for example. Or any mythology for that matter. They're full of well written interesting engaging stories about relatable characters and amazing events; yet I don't think you can argue the authors had been deeply immersed into studies of creative writing or writing theory. Or even had access to great libraries of previously written work; I mean, there WAS none and what existed was bloody hard to come by.
2. if YOU saw Batman the animated series as a kid, well; the NEW kids saw that AND a bunch of other stuff. Today, we have SUCH a huge pool of easily acessible "well-written stories" pretty much ANYONE can and HAS seen; if just being exposed to good writing warranted good writing; writing today would be BETTER than ever before.
Once again, Chris Gore hitting the nail on the head.
A factor of some importance that Gore doesn't mention, in my humble opinion, is the rise of what I call "corporatism." In this situation what I call "corporatism" is a business culture of exaggerated cliques, consensus and the substitution of a laugh-at-my-jokes-or-you're-fired style of control rather than actual leadership. This leads to management groupthink centered on being yes-men instead of contributors focused on producing and improving the core product.
Another factor is the influence of the Marketing Department on the success of films. Once upon a time you had to write, shoot, act, edit and apply a soundtrack to a film well in order to have a chance to have a hit. Visual effects were not so expensive and ubiquitous back then. Nowadays films' advertising budgets match or exceed the cost to make the actual product. Huge marketing campaigns can't always make boffo box office, but they help a lot, enabling mediocre stuff to perform better than it should compared to the old style of relying on word-of-mouth and buzz.
Indeed. Frank Zappa had an interview called _The Decline of the Music Industry_ which he touch upon how formulaic pop music became. It is not an accident the movie, music, and games industry all commoditized art. Thank god for indies having the courage to do something innovative.
There as has always been corporations. Some of them have been very creative. I think the problem goes back to creativity.
We have this class of people that go through college, graduate and then expect the world to be theirs because they got out of a good college.
It used to be that corporations would be run by people that rose up through the ranks and earned their position.
Today you can have somebody but in 15 years at a business and some college graduate will jump them in the pecking order with half that experience.
The executives of Hollywood are made up of those types. Many of them will put more importance on their college learned values.
I’m 59 years old. When I was 24, starting in the corporate world, I heard this same old tired cliche: “Young people can’t [insert false claim]”. Don’t believe it, new generation!!! The fact is, you have the world by the tail. The world is yours!
Love these interviews with Chris. He always makes great points.
I disagree.
What I see is a generation of writers who think to work hard on a project is a sign of a lack of talent. They believe good writing flows effortlessly into a first draft of perfect pure brilliance. They reject the notion that good writing is the result of long hours of hard work, editing, revision, (edit OMG I almost forgot research) and rewrites.
Agree.
I see lots of new indie authors thinking they have to write and publish their book within a six-month window. Meanwhile, I've been working on my first book for the past 8 years. I swear it's coming out this year, but it's really been a lot of work with many revisions and large and small edits and tons of care poured into it. Will it succeed? I don't know. But I really wrote it just to get the story out of my head. We'll see what happens.
I think I fall into this trap a lot as an illustrator. I feel like if I don't get it right on my first try, there must be some piece of I formation I'm missing or a technique I just don't know yet. Then I'll spend weeks "studying" to find that secret ingredient when all along I should've just learned from the first attempt and tried again.
Sad but true, this generation of writers have to incorporate politics into some stories. I was taught to look at great works from the past and from great experience.
You do know that movies in the 90s also had a lot of politics involved, right? The Cold War, The Red Scare (hence villainous Russian character archetypes), a billion world war films or films with nuclear attacks involved... Like.. every age is inspired by politics.
@@SillverBel I did say some stories not all. I meant was identity politics.
There’s nothing wrong with that. The problem is they don’t know how to make politics a subtext making their writing too on the nose. Young people today have zero life experience. No one is drinking their life away in a dive bar and writing about it. Young people no longer fight an fuck anymore, they’re not living life. That might sound harsh but thats the jest of it.
No they don't and many don't. TV has incredible writing in shows. Much better than 20 yrs ago and worse the farther back.
@@Wolfsheim23 Yes Tv does, definitely not movies.
Ernest Hemingway and Ben Hecht were both newspaper reporters in their youth. Dashiell Hammett was a Pinkerton detective for years before tuberculosis tied him to a typewriter. James Jones fought on Guadalcanal during World War Two. Raymond Chandler was 45 years old before he ever published a word. Gary Cooper was a real cowboy before he came to Hollywood. Ida Lupino was in her thirties before she began to hit her stride as a director. Fritz Lang, John Ford, Howard Hawks, had all lived - I mean, lived - and brought that to the screen. People today seem to have no idea how people developed back in the day. My grandfather was twenty-five years old when he went off to fight in WWII, and came home four years later. Never once did he complain. He had already lived more life before he went overseas than most people today will live in a lifetime. A very different generation. Learn from it. You can only benefit.
This needs to be a bigger and bigger series of videos. Top marks 👍👍👍
His idea of going on a "Writing Sabbatical" is such a great idea. Whenever I have Writer's Block, I just disconnect from everything. Phone, TV, Books, Social Media, and just go on long walks, or sit on my back porch and relax. You get more ideas in isolation sometimes, as sad as that sounds.
Spot on for creative types.
You see this not only in movies but other mediums like music as well. It can't be a coincidence that creativity in these mediums seems to have declined post internet, we live in a regurgitation-imitation era
Depends entirely on what you’re listening to
I’m glued to my Spotify account 24/7 and my ears are doing just fine
I think it depends where you look. I'd wager that the indi scene for all of these are super creative.
I find that some writers don’t write from the heart. They don’t write what they believe, their true beliefs and philosophy don’t make it down to the pages because they write what they believe will make them liked or praised. It’s always about the job they’ll get after this one. The next project. That’s why we get writing that panders to ideology or the lowest common denominator. It’s all references and shibboleths.
9:27 This is amazing.. 1,000 words a day for two months and the material is there for a book. My compliments to people who have the discipline to sit down and follow through on ideas.
Here’s why… People are lazy of writing good stories
There are good writers out there with great storytelling but they are been pushed aside by corporate media, woke culture and manufactured writing… originality is in the back burner. They want to recycle the same ideas over and over again to make money… There’s one of your answers…
As a guitar teacher, I have students who can't even name a band or artist that they like or even a genre of music. There is SO much music out there that they don't even know what they are listening to. Music has just become background noise. As for the writing, It does suck now. I've been watching the Flash and the other CW shows and then other shows like Game of Thrones but can't remember singe episodes. I just watched Little House on the Prairie for the first time and I can already talk about specific episodes and characters. I can watch 5 seconds of Star Trek TNG and know what episode that is. Can't do that with any of the modern shows.
Are any of them taking guitar lessons? Because when I ask them on their first lesson what music they like or to even NAME a band or song they like, they can't name any. Also, strange that your would disagree with MY own experience.
Really great insights here beyond movies
That’s interesting because I’ve thought the same of Hip-hop. The hip-hop influenced by Hip-hop is more bland and forgettable than the hip-hop influences by jazz, blues, rock and so on.
Chris Gore is such a wonderful interviewee and person. I always look forward to his presence and input through any channel i follow!
I read a lot of newspapers and have noticed over the past 20 years the writing has changed. The journalists are now journalism graduates. In the past they were English Literature graduates. What this means is new journalism doesn't have a narrative, there is no story telling, no depth. It's just a bunch of loosely connected events. I think the same has happened with movies and tv to a certain extent.
I couldn't agree more.
I disagree. Modern journalists are expected to present a narrative and cram events into it (that was an explicit policy from the NYT). Life is a bunch of events but being able to read things in detail and consider alternate interpretations matters. US journalists have always had problems but the current problem is largely of narrative over-riding details.
Journalism is not "narrative". That's preconceived. Journalism is telling facts and events. Nowadays there is too much narrative. Too many opinions, and not enough facts.
I agree wholeheartedly with Chris and most of his positions. Much of what I am reading and seeing in film today is akin to a drug looking for a disease - it's endlessly formulaic and just not that interesting to me anymore - but then again I am likely not its intended audience. While I appreciate the importance of commercial viability, I wonder if the fine art of storytelling is being lost to audiences devoid of exposure to imagination and storytellers needing to survive by extension. That said, the responses to this video below expose a fascinating exploration of the concepts at hand. This is a much needed conversation. Well done.
I love listening to your interviews with Chris Gore! Love his takes on things and best of it is they're really well thought out opinions, not just him swimming against the tide.
Chris Gore is correct. I was teaching screenwriting at film school and saw this happening around 15 years ago. Now, as an "older" writer, someone over 45, having had films made, sold multiple scripts, in development on projects, when I read the work of younger writers, I always ask if they've seen Hud, or Bad Day At Black Rock, or, now wait for it, Casablanca. I can count on one hand the writers that have. I also ask if they've ever read Chandler, or Hammett or seen the documentary about how they shot The Wild Bunch. Sadly, same answer. Worse, most glaze over, or have no idea nor want to know the writers and directors I'm referencing. Not good. Not good at all.
I am not surprised. I had a life relatively devoid of pop culture and, while it has its downsides, I can certainly understand and appreciate a lot of earlier media. Living among the French and having family on what was the other side of the Iron Curtain really gave me appreciation of the themes of Casablanca.
When people are starting out creating images, they seem to gravitate to extreme examples but not the things that makes those sacrifices meaningful. There is a concept in psychophysics (the branch of psychology studying how humans perceive the physical world) which is the "least noticeable difference" and that can change with experience. Since the experience of how things work would make details seem relevant or not. I can appreciate the writing of Babylon 5 with the focus on the prior experiences making the dramatic moments of sacrifice or betrayal all the more meaningful.
Probably the single line that has gotten me through a lot and served as a locus for reflection was Babylon 5's "It's easy to find something worth dying for. Do you have anything worth living for?"
That kind of line flips the stereotypical ideas of a "grand" sacrifice that accomplishes everything with no need for follow-through (in addition to all the other aspects). The 1990s had plenty of dull sci-fi but they at least acknowledged a lot of the larger ideas that I rarely see in big budget movies now (so I stop watching).
Some of the reason Bioshock made so big a splash (pun intended) was because they started with an idea, not characters or effects. Movies have gone in the opposite direction.
Obviously new writer only watch blockbuster movie and want to be screenwriter.
Have you seen Moonlight, or Wind River? 1917? How are those films in any way a bad sign of things to come lol
Cinematic quality is falling because only rich kids can afford to gamble on art degrees right now. Wait until the Boomers stop undermining our social net so that upward mobility can be properly maintained; you’ll see yet another explosion in originality from hungry and multifaceted minds
@@corpsefoot758 Oh right, it's the Boomers fault, not the tech influence of phones and social media creating the hollowness of famous for being famous, not for creating fantastic films. I was making films in NYC guerrilla style and that plus my first script, garnered me a development deal with Scorsese. So don't make excuses using the only rich kids nonsense. It's never been easier to make flicks. Use your iPhone. Just do it, mate.
@@Lawofimprobability Great, thoughtful post. Thank you.
The same has been told about manga and anime authors, now they are basically inspired by the same media instead of real life.
Agree, nowadays it's hard to find original manga.
That's why when berserk mangaka died last year, we lose a gem.
I'm tired with Isekai genre or ecchi genre or romance genre. It's always has the same plot, most of manga I read today is seinen demographic that has realistic and matured drawing like the fable
@@boboboy8189 So Murata wasn't inspired by Western horror films? Come on man.
That "real life" is exaggerated and that really can't be applied to mangaka for the simple fact their schedule is strenuous.
This channel is so refreshing. So glad I stumbled upon it
"This movie won't have any conflict so let's find a reason to make these characters hate each other."
Chris is my favorite on this channel. He is so right on in so many ways. I wish all of the entertainment industry would watch his videos.
Simply put, imagination has been replaced by ideology.
You can add denial and delusion to that.
Spot on
One of the primary problems is that it is so difficult to gain entry into the industry, that life becomes such a singular focus, that there is no room for the additional influences in life, that are essential.
To reinforce what others have already said, the gist of Chris Gore's argument - and it is valid - was summarized in the first 90 seconds. "Writers today are not influenced by life....They are influenced by other movies." Brilliantly concise. And devastatingly true.
Hence: Marvel.