Prenatal Genetic Testing | Downs Syndrome Documentary | All Documentary
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- čas přidán 13. 09. 2018
- 9 out of 10 British women now terminate their pregnancies when they receive a positive Prenatal Genetic Testing diagnosis for Down syndrome. In this documentary actress and mother to a child with Down syndrome Sally Phillips investigates the scientific breakthrough that now predicts the disability in 99% of pregnancies and explores what impact this could have on society and the potential to eradicate the next generation of children with Down syndrome.
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My brother had Down Syndrome (he died at age 53). He was the glue that held our family together. It was a privilege to have him as my brother.
Was it Alzheimer's? I heard that 30% of people with Down Syndrome develop Alzheimer's in their 50s. Andrea Friedman passed away on December 3rd, 2023, from Alzheimer's at the age of 53. She could not speak for over a year.
I want a follow up documentary about what happens to adult and elder people with Down Syndrome once their parents have passed away or are unable to care for them. More importantly, on individuals from ALL income levels. Most people aren't lucky enough to pay for or arrange to pay for their adult child's care in perpetuity before they die.
The same thing that happens the all of us, just sooner. Our basic needs are met by the state and our quality of life is helped along by community, church and the kindness of strangers.
What happens to kids with autism and other disabilities when their parents die? Does needing disability assistance later in life mean their lives aren’t worth living?
Or maybe a documentary about all the 'normal' kids that go bad for no apparent reason 🤔
This was my thought too. Every mother in this is very upper middle class.
@@dreaming_cthulhu Uhh, the majority of autistic people are able to take care of themselves and live alone. You can not do that with downs.
My mother and Dad adopted a baby with Down Syndrome. They were 52 at the time. I was 31, the oldest of the natural children. Rachel's birth mother was sadly only 13. There are challenges in childbearing of any child. She was the family baby. It is an honor to be her sister. I love her. If I were to be able to have babies still, and was told I was expecting a child with Down Syndrome, I would feel overwhelmed with joy to be entrusted to raise a specials individual, who would be so gifted in love, and joy.
Why do people in the comments think a documentey shouldn't be biased? that is the point of a documentry, to show us a certain perspective about a certain subject. And it is interesting because her point of view is not popular in our society, so it makes perfect sense.
I would expect a documentary maker to strive to represent the subject through multiple facets, because that is putting the subject first rather than themselves, and it is closer to the meaning of "documenting." I don't expect the end product to be free from all biases because that is impossible. However I would not be convinced by a film maker who never intended to explore other perspectives. A film about something from your own perspective only is more like vlogging.
A lot of parents end up putting their adult children with disabilities in homes once they can’t take care of them anymore. It a different life long commitment. And majority of children born with downs are NOT high functioning.
Agreed. I'm overjoyed that these moms are feeling so passionate about their children with downs syndrome, but I wonder how they will feel 40 years from now, or how moms of children who are profoundly disabled with severe complications feel about the prospect of having the responsibilities of a new mom until their death... And then what happens to their child? What about people who live in places where their child's medical care costs will put them on the street? It's a huge commitment, and not everyone is prepared for that. Obviously we can't control our outcomes 100% of the time, but it's certainly something that should be up to the person who is pregnant, as with all pregnancies.
And what is your point?
And a lot of 'normal' children end up in prison. Social sevices is what's needed across all abilities.
@@brh.1892 I think her point is every situation is not the same so this video about one particular person is perhaps misleading. All downs people are not the same just like other people so one happy outcome does not mean people should underestimate the burden of having a child with downs.
@@brh.1892 I think you know, you just don't like that point.
The problem isn't the test, it's the active encouragement to terminate and a lack of balanced information regarding DS.
Agreed ❤️
Being offered a termination is not, in itself, encouragement to terminate. It is the responsibility of medical personnel to make such an offer, since a congenital disability is not to be taken lightly. The decision will affect the entire family, and doctors see what the consequences are of these decisions. If you don't want the benefit of their advice, intelligence, knowledge, and experience, just give a firm no, thank you.
Certainly the information being offered by this woman is neither complete nor balanced. It is alarmingly biased, and it is to be hoped no one takes it at face value.
Not all people with down syndrome have the same issues though... Some have critical cogenital heart defects.. Not just a hole but the structure and the combination of those with the condition means that they may not even survive multiple heart surgeries. So each case is different.
That's mental AND physical suffering. A life of open heart surgeries if they have the combo diagnosis. Let the mothers choose in these cases.
I hate how the parents of Down Syndrome children come off as I'm so much more morally superior than you because I had my baby and love them and you are a horrible person for making the decision to not go thru with having a child with Down Syndrome like come on get off your high horse not everyone can handle a child like that or have the resources to care for them
This is not a documentary. This is one woman's opinion. she has a husband plenty of money (she's traveling all over for this film) and a husband that stuck around after the child was born. What about all the single moms that cannot afford to stay home to properly care for their special needs child? What about the woman whose husband/partner leave them after the diagnosis? Who takes care of the child when the mom dies? It's not fair to put any of this onto society in general.
I agree with you 100%
Well said, and valid questions raised
Who said a documentary should not be biased. She herself says that in the first 5 mins. It's a documentary. It documents whatever the creator wants to document
Agree.
@@michawill6599 It is not a documentary. It is one woman's inaccurate depiction of what having a Down syndrome affected child is like for her, in her highly privileged circumstances. It in no way shows an informed, accurate representation of what happens to many families when they have a Down syndrome afflicted member.
Existing Down syndrome individuals must be treated fairly, with dignity and respect. That does not make it acceptable to advocate increasing the number of individuals who are afflicted with this congenital disability. Stop misrepresenting reality to, in some way, justify your choice of having a Down syndrome baby. If that is your choice, so be it, but don't try to force your choice on others. They, too, need to have their choice.
People who are against the termination of DS pregnancies should all become involved in increasing the QoL of people with Down Syndrome, curing their many medical conditions and adopting those without parents. I very rarely see them do that.
I absolutely agree!!! I’m actively involved! When’s the last time you helped to improve the quality of life of someone with DS in your community? Do you even know those with DS in your community? That would be a great place to start!
Probably because you arent looking 🤦 Pro life people are fsr more likely to adopt disabled kids.
I wonder if she would feel the same way if she didnt live in SW area and buying in Waitrose every day. These kind of doc should show all aspects, not only point of view of people who are privileged and have money and access to resources available to help children with DS.
Also, her down syndrome kid is high functioning. Most kids with downs are not, or they end up dying really young
I'm watching this documentary with my 7th grade science class after learning about genetically inherited conditions. Thank you for sharing this perspective with the world to help facilitate conversation.
So if she agrees the woman should get to decide then why does she have a problem that women DO choose to terminate?
Yeah, Human beings are a real piece of work when they go around in circles, contradicting themselves and all that nonsense. It's because she chose to not terminate her children.
Exactly. You can choose to terminate a pregnancy, unless the fetus tests positive for downs.
I think she agrees that people should have the right and the freedom to have an abortion for any reason, but she does not understand or agree with the reasons. I actually relate to her quite a bit, so perhaps I might be the right person to ask about this.
There are also other things that I do not like but do not think should be illegal. Like, I don't really like McDonalds and don't see the appeal. If my friend said that McDonalds is her favourite restaurant, I would probably ask her why. If my partner was exclusively eating McDonalds and harming his health, I would try to convince him out of it. I wouldn't work at a McDonalds because I don't want to support it. But I don't think McDonalds should be illegal. That would be ridiculous to me. Does that make sense?
@@SageGarlandSingerSongwriter what a great comment :)
@@Delinae Thank you!
I find it ironic that she's pro-choice; unless that choice is to abort based on this particular reason because she's emotionally involved with that circumstance. That just seems intellectually dishonest.
She probably went into it with a pro choice stance but once confronted with the actual choice got emotionally involved
Emotionally involved? Choosing to aport because of Down syndrome is not ethical!
@@arajczewski9253 keep your ethics off of other peoples wombs.
It's possible to advocate for something without wanting to enforce it on everyone legally.
She loves her son that's all.
I spent a day with down syndrome kids and they were adorable and I was amazed with how much they can actually do and understand. It just melts your heart because how can you not love kids ? But it's a dilemma ...do you honestly want to bring a child with potential for a lifetime health problems and dependency on other people?
Best comment on the thread, hands down! Thank you for realizing that this, like so much else in life, is not black and white!
You really don't know what any child's life will be like when you bring them into the world. You could have a perfectly healthy baby and then something happens that renders them dependent on you. That's part of the deal of being a parent, sorry.
@@brh.1892 thanks, you just nailed it👍
@@brh.1892 which is why people do testing to get the best outcome they can. You don’t get to tell people what challenges they have to take on in life.
Bonzo, what happens when you develop Alzheimer's, debilitating Depression or any type of coginitive decline? You are not dependent on other people after that? Are you not dependent on other people, currently? You don't have a family? I take it that you were born with no mother or father since you never were dependant on anyone - it shows. BTW - There is NO dilema at all. I will take any Down Syndrome individual over a crazy insane mad man..ie. Vladimir Putin.. :)
I bet Ollie brings joy to everyone he meets, such a light and character.
What world would I want to live in? A world where a woman isn't judged for the choices she makes, wether that is to terminate or keep.
100000% agree
BINGO.
@@rationalfanatic426their unborn babies
You mean *where a woman isnt judged for killing her kid.
Just say what you mean 💁
@@HaleyStark.And you stop twisting someone else's words. Shame on you.
I guess I'm biased because I'm coming into my 9th year of TTC. But if I do ever fall pregnant, and bubba ends up with downs, you can be damn sure I'm gonna love that kid with all my soul regardless of what challenges he or she winds up facing.
Sally Philips was so brave making this documentary. I could see her heart breaking almost through the whole thing.
Brave? Not so much. Opinionated? Yes. Making an irrational point? Absolutely. Dangerously one-sided with her information? Definitely so.
So manipulative, although I do understand that it comes from the love she has for her son. But she is very misinformed and ignorant.
Yup, she's a middle class woman and a child has a HIGH FUNCTIONING disability. Most kids with downs either die young or are dependant on a carer for the rest of their lives. I hate how dishonest and one sided this doc is.
I know many people with down syndrome and they are the absolute nicest people I have ever met. My great uncle has down syndrome and he is so sweet, I love him so much
The problem is that people with ALL varieties of genetic disease can be incredibly kind and nice. We can say the same things about those with muscular dystrophy or Werner syndrome. How do we determine which conditions which are OK to test for and those which are not? Or do we not allow testing for any diseases?
great documentary. well done.
Although I get her point, her stance on this is very jaded. I understand that she loves her son, however when discussing terminations she seemed to ignore all the other factors affecting the decision regarding termination of a pregnancy. In no point does she explicitly say that she is pro life or incorporates politics into any of this but I feel as if her view is mainly one-sided. A woman should have a right to choose, she may not even be ready for a healthy baby, so after learning that her child has a hereditary disease she most definitely may consider a termination. The stigma around Down's is bad and I'm not justifying it, however I can safely assume that the majority of terminations depend on other factors, e.g. finance, lack of resources, unwanted pregnancies, mental illness, lack of support systems etc. I understand the majority of terminations discussed are related to the result of a diagnostic test, however this does not completely rule out any of these factors. She is a financially stable woman with 3 other children and therefore has experience in parenting, and it's safe to say I don't think she has any grasp on the complexity of the situation.
perfectly put
My children were all born in the 1990's uk and I took the Down syndrome tests that the NHS offered which is exactly the same that they are still doing today , except they can also detect Edward's syndrome and Patau's syndrome now . So I am confused as to why this is being portrayed as being something recently available , The combined test as it called has been the standard test for about 30 years in the uk which is said to 84 % - 90 % accurate . Now more recently we are hearing about the NIPT test that is not yet offered free on the NHS , but probably wiil in the future , as it is even more accurate.
This woman did not show how much ppl with kids with Down syndrome spend on average and how many percent of Down syndrome actually became independent so that documentary is actually just useless and sad
Ppl with kids with DS spends an endless river of love and patience and is drained on a daily basis.
Let's be honest, Downs Syndrome is not just a possibility of those problems. A majority of people with Downs end up in long term care. Older moms are more at risk of having children with the condition. So your just kicking the can down the road.
In the USA we have no NHS. Our social safety net is broken. A lot of such people end up on the street or due soon after the parent does.
I believe in reincarnation. If I were to abort then the wheel spins again and the baby would get a new chance at a better life. We're I in the situation, I would pick that.
A lot of typical people end up in long-term care also. We don’t have the NHS, but we have Medicare, Medicaid, Disability payments etc. So they won’t end up on the street. I’ve actually never seen a single homeless person with DS
@@autumn111155551 The overwhelming majority of typical people are viable and have the ability to be completely self sufficient, this can't be said for down syndrome folks. They're a net loss for society from birth to their demise. There was a study published by the american journal of medical genetics that showed it cost society nearly twice as much money to raise your average child with down syndrome from birth to 18 compared to a child without DS, they didn't even include the cost of supporting them well past adulthood.
@@z-4926At the end of life, almost NO ONE is independently viable. Even people that have had no health complications in their life, when you get to a certain age, you’ll be needing to be institutionalized. That’s just the truth of the matter. If you’re denying this reality… well the end of your life won’t be a very peaceful one.
@@mcgheebentle1958 a lifetime of non-viability is much more detrimental to society than a few years in a retirement home
@@z-4926 How so? Studies have repeatedly found that 99 percent of people with DS report feeling “very happy” with their lives. In comparison, only 67 percent of the general American public report being “very happy” with their lives.
Isn’t having more happy people around better for society?
Also, what do you mean by “non-viable?” I find this to be a curious phrase to use since they are already living, and so by definition are viable. Let me know!
Thank You So very much for doing this documentary :) love this 🥰
To Sally and Ollie : thank you for making a stand for the value of every human life!
I have downs syndrome and I get a lot of discrimination for it and in the uk it's just the norm I wish more people where like her more understanding and kinder
You are not a bad person for wanting a healthy baby.
@@HVS-gk7oono but you ARE a bad person for killing your kid if it isnt healthy
@@HaleyStark.My goodness, how very judgemental you are. Shall we have a further discussion about what makes a bad person a bad person, bad person?
@@cheryllaguardia931 lol on the scale of bad things a person can do, being judgmental of someone killing their kid is dramatically better than killing your kid by pretty much every possible metric. I would personally argue that we should be judgmental of killers and eugenecists. But keep on annoying me with notifications for poorly thought out arguments in the middle of the night. 😴
How can there only be ONE professor of genetics and fetal medicine in ALL OF BRITAIN???
It’s totally the mother‘s choice and only the mother’s choice! Not everyone has the resources to properly care for a down syndrome child. And I believe it also depends on the severity of the down syndrome itself, as there are a realm of medical issues!
Its a simple question of personal choice.
Let the parents decide
Not society.
Parents do not live in isolation of the social fabric…the decision to siphon off different/diverse aspects of humanity is a very dangerous decision…. Once started there’s then the question of where does it stop.
@@stephaniejayne5185 Except you are not going to get aborted. You were already born.
I read this wonderful reddit post where someone told their story about how she found out her fetus had Downs Syndrome and, after educating herself, talking it through with her husband and family, taking into consideration that children with DS are at a higher risk of being bullied and abused in the school system and having learning difficulties, she chose to abort. Her entire friend group shunned her but she doesn't regret her decision for a second.
@@stephaniejayne5185 It stops when we're not testing for congenital disabilities. But that's what these tests are for. So stop waving the spectre of eugenics around!
I have a lot of medical problems. A LOT. My mom once told me that when my parents were trying to have children, they decided that they didn't want a child with Down Syndrome. I asked her if she had been able to screen me for all of my conditions, would she have terminated the pregnancy. She assured me that she wouldn't, but honestly I don't believe her. If any doctor told expecting parents the long list of medical problems I would have had, most parents would think that the child would have no quality of life. But even with prenatal screening, there is no guarantees for the health of your child. Your child could get cancer. Your child could have a traumatic brain injury. You know what people do when that sort of thing happens to their child? They deal with it. They do not euthanize their child or give them up for adoption as soon as things get hard.
I don’t see how Down Syndrome causes suffering. It doesn’t cause untreatable pain and it’s not terminal.
This 👏
Beautifully said
I am impressed she interviewed a woman who terminated. No one debates DS adults are happy - but a lot of parents want their kid to be able to have the intelligence to at least be able to stay alive on their own once the parent dies. Sadly there is not a single downs person who is able to survive on their own. Screening for severe mental disability is not the same as the eugenics this lady is trying to scare us is right around the corner.
Grant Trent woah woah dude where did you get the information that there are no people with Down syndrome living alone??? There are many I assure you but thanks for your concern.
@@lauren_6101 I mean entirely alone. I get that there are a few of them in apartments where they don't have live-in nannies. But those buildings do have a nanny living in another apartment in the same building. Kinda like their on-site aid, in case their parents forgot to bring them food and they start wandering the halls telling random people they are hungry. You and I both know that there is not a single 100% independent person living with down syndrome. Yes, Christina from Born This Way technically lives in a apartment paid for by the taxpayers of California without a live-in nanny. But they do have an on-call nanny in the building, her parents do all her food shopping for her, and are there every day. And even if they weren't, the fact she gets free housing FOR LIFE from the taxpayers of California proves that she'll never have a job or be able to support herself (not that she can count or has a clue what money is), but also the down Syndrome advocates (parents mostly) don't believe their children will EVER be able to take care of themselves and demand the taxpayers pay for their adult children until they die. Why else would their be guaranteed lifetime benefits just for having down syndrome? There are no guaranteed lifetime benefits for any other disability.
Grant Trent Believe it or not, there are people with Down syndrome living 100% independently. I know several. You’re right, many adults live in group homes with aids, but not all. Also, I don’t know a SINGLE person with Down syndrome over the age of 5 who can’t count. You aren’t giving them enough credit and you know it. I know a young woman with Down syndrome who is 26 and own (and runs INDEPENDENTLY) her own successful business on Etsy. She makes incredible pottery and makes enough money to support herself. And yes, she does her own finances. My sister has Down syndrome. She’s only a freshman in high school and is taking a regular algebra class with her neurotypical peers and is doing just fine. Don’t tell me what individuals with Down syndrome can and can’t do because I’ve seen what they can do. Clearly you haven’t.
@@granttrent5564 I'd love to know what Dr Karen Gaffney thinks of your verbal diarrhoea.
@@granttrent5564 ✌
Awesome job on your very first documentary.
I got the feeling that she visited the mom-to-be who had terminated a pregnancy in the belief that she would "prove" how misguided she was to terminate. Mission failed.
Absolutely love this !! Its because of the cracks that the light gets in !! Every expectant parent should watch this❤
You are making no sense whatsoever.
This was one of the most wonderful documentaries I’ve ever watched. I love Sally Phillips, she’s so lovely and a great advocate. The world needs more people with Down’s syndrome, they are amazing and as Sally put it, ‘part of the worlds society’.
Advocating to increase a congenital disability calls your sanity into question.
Great doco
Not a doco. An infomercial for wrongheadedness.
An extremely valid documentary.
I think you meant, INvalid. Because this woman is peddling her opinion as truth.
I think pregnant women who find ANY issue with their babies that they make a truthful and honest choice that they can’t cope with that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with terminating,
Information is power but it needs to be information from ALL sides, the medical, the parents who are struggling and the parents who are thriving with their Down’s syndrome child.
Only THEN can they make an informed decision and that decision should NOT be something they are penalised for.
Not everyone has the same abilities of care to give.
Whether this does reduce down syndrome rates actually doesn't matter. It should always be a mother's choice if she wants to continue a pregnancy. Also, down syndrome IS a disability, so wanting to reduce disabilities doesn't seem like a bad thing. Every woman deserves to choose, and the syndrome shouldn't change that.
Where does it stop? For example, late term abortions which allow a mother to decide that her new born child should or should not be injected and killed based upon the reason she feels. That is murder. So should it always be a mother’s choice?
@@soflafit Yes. Late term abortions are rare, and almost always due to outside circumstances, such as extreme deformity, or risk to the mother. Women almost never carry a fetus that long just to abort. No infant can be aborted, because they are outside the womb, and living without requiring the use of another's body. We have bodily autonomy, which allows every one of us to choose how we use our body. This lets a woman choose if a fetus can be in her uterus or not. Therefore, it should always be the mother's choice when it comes to what is inside of her body.
Actually reducing disabilities is eugenics. Disabilities are the result of the natural variation of the human genome. A more diverse genom, the fitter a population. Sincerely - and autistic person who would never in a million years want to get rid of his autism
The Flash dance was the final straw and the tears came flooding with pride for our Down Syndrome community! This was a great documentary!!!
Not a documentary. A wrong-headed infomercial.
A fact that isn't often picked up on is the age of women being and feeling ready to have kids. Eg in UK the economics of stable home. In former times with less healthcare, women were encouraged to conceive much younger and women over 31 were seen as 'unmarrigable', maybe due to fear of conditions like downs that are correlated with increased maternal age.
Everyone makes choices in the context of the support and resources available to them and what they expect to be available to them and their child in the future.
Is there a possibility to talk or contact to/this woman?? I would like to know soo much things! I just cried at the end.. Cause that was soo ❤️-breaking... So wunderful 💗breaking... Thank you for this docu.. PS, I am from Germany!
Everyone here talking about medical expenses... Where do you all live? No individual or family should have to pay out of pocket for things like heart surgery. That's ridiculous. So if a person with Down Syndrome needs a lot of medical assistance, the answer shouldn't be them dying early so they don't need help. It should be making major health procedures free to everyone, whether they have Down Syndrome or not. I am shocked that I'm not seeing other people make this point in the comments.
Bless
I think it is a rubbish documentary and biased. It is like taking the right to abort from the mother. She herself took screening, why wouldn't she want others to have that opportunity and use that information to make thier decision. I wouldn't have wanted to be born with it. It shows in thier looks and achievements, what is a basic achievement for a normal person is what a few with the syndrome achieve and she thinks that outstanding. Also her son doesn't have a very bad one, some can't stop spit coming out of thier mouth, all sorts of incapabilities. Very naive to think she lives in a society with carers. People have enough troubles, for you to knowingly bring in child that would require care long after ur dead and then think it ok that the society should take the responsibility to care for ur child.
I suppose we should terminate any pregnancy that could potentially have any disabilities. Blindness, Deaf, missing a limb. Why keep it right?
@@Stevekixs yes exactly. Why would you willingly want a disabled child?
Okay honestly think of it this way my nephew was born without a hand meaning that he only has his hand growth up to his wrist and little nubs for fingers. He has nothing else wrong with him nothing no developmental delays. No heart defects. And it was very hard to find out what was wrong with him in utero. He can and will function as a normal human being that can do just as much as any other person can. Disgusting of you guys to think that any baby that has any defects should be immediately aborted. Every women has a choice. Weather she wants to keep the fetus or not. Truly disgraceful of anyone’s mindset to be that way.
@@babiem2290I have seen no one argue as you describe. Stop inflicting your specious reasoning on a serious conversation among adults.
Sadly the medical field needs to identify and tell parents all the possible conditions that someone with downs can have. Its being transparent to the families so they understand. sighhhh your child is never a burden but i understand how it may feel to others. Its a personal decision, and i dont feel as though i should judge a family for a difficult decision they make. Its difficult and i cant imagine.
I cried so many times😭 as a mother of a child who has Down syndrome the abortion part broke my soul she missed out on the most beautiful blessing she could have ever been given!! And those that say oh it’s my choice well no kid is perfect you could have a typical kid but at 2 years they detect an aggressive cancer or they could have type 1 diabetes or be blind like literally no one is perfect and anything can happen so to base their decision for something completely unknown just blows my mind!! I’ve met several kiddos with Down syndrome that are thriving and to toss them away as if they don’t matter because u don’t want to deal with the unknown makes me sick cause literally just the fact that we are living is unknown if we will be living tomorrow or 5 minutes from now anything can literally happen. The medical doctors that push for termination shame on you!! We need to continue to advocate because i refuse to live in a world without these incredible souls!! People with Down syndrome are literally my favorite humans!! I will forever be their advocate 💙💛
And that is your choice. Please stop trying to cram your choice down other people's throats. It's unseemly.
Thank you! All Life is sacred and Valuable. Love and Kindness is what is all about.
"I just want an award and a girlfriend" "Just like Leonardo DiCaprio " 😂
No, I'm not neurotypical. :) lovely documentary.
Excellent documentary that emphasizes the the value and beauty of life. Well done
I have autism and I'm scared too about some stuff she brought up. Do we really not have a right to love just because we're a bit different?
I think he is talking about the babies that are never born, and how because the babies are different they are seen as unlovable or defective. They are feared as statistics.
Comparing autism with DS 😂😂😂😂😂
I’m autistic too.
The comments are very depressing... I liked the video. Gives many people a postitive outlook on down syndrome. Please lets just tuck away the argument that this documentary is poor because it advocates from taking away from choice. The woman in it clearly respects everyones choices, but would like to keep people more informed.
After reading all the other comments, this one made me laugh.
This woman does not respect others' choices and is trying to force her choice on others. Brush up on your critical thinking.
I like the icelandic guy - Kaur?
I was interested and learning until she went to see the lady who had the abortion. That is so awful, how dare you rake over such a painful and personal decision and torture her like that. That is not okay.
✌
Wait what….? The woman agreed to come on this documentary. She told them she had terminated her Down’s fetus - that’s why the film crew and Sally came to her house. There was nothing cruel about the way Sally broached the subject. The woman literally invited them there to discuss it. Please make sure you’re not projecting your own feelings on their interaction.
What? This is such an infantalising opinion. That woman is an adult who made an informed decision to participate in a discussion. Don't treat women like meek little babies who aren't strong enough to talk about and own choices they have made.
It certainly speaks to Sally Powers' character, doesn't it? Not so lovely, IMHO. Thanks for pointing this out about "angelic" Sally!
I think it should be every woman's choice to have the screening. To prepare yourself at least. outside of that it's also their choice to terminate, not yours. Unless you want to adopt all these children.
We don't know what situation they are in and it's quite likely they are in no position to raise a downs child. Do you prefer it lived a miserable life because the parents can't look after it?
Then you are the selfish monster you are preaching about.
Kahlan Rahl
So if I’m tired of taking care of my kid, instead of abandoning my kid on someone else’s doorstep I can due society a favor and kill him instead?
@@tylers9888 no, you are forced to look after it. You wanted it at the end of the day it's your responsibility until one of you dies.
Kahlan Rahl
You missed the argument I was making.
@@tylers9888 you're argument that you regret your choice of bringing a child on the planet and expect others to look after it once you get fed up?
Then you're just extremely selfish for bringing someone on this earth who can't look after itself and when you have enough you abandon it, hoping someone might look after it.
But nooo this is better than terminating it in utero.
Kahlan Rahl
Still failing to see the point I am making.
The boy is more lively than I am !
Oh shiiiit Is that Sophie from I'm Alan Partridge?? The reception girl?
...it is.
Olly is a nice kid.
As a group of people, I have only experienced mostly love, laughter and happiness - just as any other person, we can all have a bad day … we’re all people who want to live, laugh and be happy … 💕
My mum spent a lot of her life looking after children with disabilities. They all had parents but we’re placed in a children’s home. She has always been against screening she never had one with my sitter or me. I have a best friend with special needs so I find topics like these very upsetting.
None of your logics justify that you don't respect the other women's autonomy, just yours.
It happened to Alaskan politician Sarah palling fifteen year old daughter Bristol had downs child
U take away people's choice and immidiately u get more abandoned babies. Love that guy she spoke to, it's her opinion and others have thier opinions too, don't take away people's choice. We may as well go back to the middle ages.
Wrong. And the statistics bare this out. Also, since abortion was legalized, child abuse has risen not decreased. Fact.
@@kosmos1957 Having a post graduate degree in maths, in statistics there are many factors involved in collecting data. It is not enough to say since abortion got legalised, child abuse has increased. What country are you talking about, what area of the country, what social class, are people simply coming out more because there are more avenues to capture it, have committees been set up with better trained staff able to recognised child abuse earlier than before. When reading research papers investigate all contributing factors and not just the summary or conclusion. Besides the objective here isn't about child abuse but putting a burden on the society, since these kids are eventually put into care. Lastly am pregnant, I have had 3 scans, first to check ectopic, and for other problems, if any had come up with a problem, I would abort in a heartbeat.
@@kosmos1957 Lie.
@@mariei7445 Thank you for being rational.
5:20 is it me or does it look like its the guy speaking?
Maybe they can identify the ‘nasty person gene ‘ soon and eliminate that. That would benefit the world
Is your DNA available?
If you think about it Down syndrome and Autism have similar kinda spectrums, sure some ppl with Down syndrome might have more severe needs not being able to do much for themselves and will need long term care right up to adulthood but that doesn’t mean ALL Down syndrome people are like that.. some have normal jobs and live fairly decent independent lives which is the same with Autism! Some autistic ppl are non verbal whilst others aren’t. Not every disability affects the people in the same way..
A better world
Ollie is the highest functioning person with Down syndrome I have ever seen. Very charming indeed.
It's called choice, honey.
If you screen to make sure the baby doesn't have down syndrome then YOU ARE A MONSTER
I would NEVER do such a thing
@@michaelacatherinesimon2580 oh look, it's the monster calling the kettle black
Who is the documentary lady
I haven't watch whole thing yet but i can't imagine a world without those sweet affectionate downs babies. They get a little grumpy as teens but most people don't realize how full their lives can be. My uncle was the best bowler on his team and wrote interesting stories. He had a job and a full social life
Who doesn't get a lil grumpy as a teen? I sure was! 😂💜
@@shoutingfactory8973 me too. BIG TIME
If we 'remove' downsyndrome kids, maybe we can remove everything what is not 'worthy?' 🤤🤐. My brother was severe handicapped: but he gave us more love than (medical) troubles. He suffered mostly from not feeling accepted. The biggest problem in this world is a lake of love. A. From the Netherlands.
There are a lot of people in America that believe that abortion is a fair practice when considering the health and welfare of the parents and the child.
I do not believe in such things.
Franklin Roosevelt suffered from Polio and he was one of the most amazing Presidents to have ever resided in the Oval Office.
Jeff Healey was a phenomenal guitarist and he was blind.
Roseanne Barr has Multiple Personality Disorder.
Abraham Lincoln suffered from Bipolar depression.
However, there are steps to take in order to prevent Down Syndrome.
There are no steps to take to prevent being born blind, or being born with a propensity to develop bipolar depression, or many other mental illness' that can result from environmental factors after birth.
My point is this my good sir, Down syndrome is an illness that has preventative measures, and those measures should be taken regardless of the maternal or paternal advances of the parents.
In other words, there are scientifically proven measures that can be taken to prevent this illness, and I believe they should be taken by every "would be parent".
Let us not fantasize the illness, rather, let us prevent it.
At the end of the day you have no business deciding what others do.
If they can't take care of an impaired child they can't. Unless you are willing to take over you have no right saying anything because you're condemning the child to a life of misery.
terminating is also a way to prevent all that suffering. humans want to be healthy and want their kids to be healthy. some parents dont want their kids to suffer from health problems and lack of acceptance on top of that. and they dont want to burder their other children with being a lifelong carer. some are single parents, some dont have the financial or emotional means this hypocritical lady in the video has. terminating before nervous system is formed is compassionate, as the fetus doesn't feel anything and doesn't have any sort of consciousness. it should always be the individual choice.
We chose not to have testing because we felt that having a child with Down syndrome would be ok. Not something that was worthy of termination, so why test? The way people think is a result of the society of the time and its history, so while the population think they are exercising choice, there's so much more to it.
Mr Khan says, "Science just tells you" - so we have to change society's expectations of Down syndrome. And keep challenging 'choice'. For example, if you are told that you are expecting a girl - and 'society' or the people in it do not value girls ... then allow terminations based on gender ... obviously that's not right, so you can't say that people make the right choice and there should be laws preventing this.
52:00 if they see lots of happy families on TV ... it's the societal pressures ... spread the word that these are valuable members of society ...
Absolutely. See you around! Crumpet (Dad) (Rob)
Thank you! The comments here are breaking my heart. Most people who are neurotypical have no understanding of those of us with neurological differences, but they think they can stand up for us better than we can--and this trend of terminating neurodivergent pregnancies just so how wrong that is!
Now you are at the point of babbling. Just stop.
@@cheryllaguardia931 I think you replied to the wrong person. If not, you are now at the point of being rude. Just stop.🤣
@ElijahandCrumpet Nope, I replied to the person exhorting others to keep challenging choice, talking about making laws to keep people from making "the wrong decision." That's way beyond rude to the point of being sexist, misogynistic, and oppressive. You have your choice, and that should be respected, just as you need to respect others' choices, whether the same as yours or different. That's the definition of civility.
2:23 who else put your hand on the screen?
Being an atheist, I don't believe in "playing god" and want science pushed as far as possible (designer babies is a very touchy subject), if there is anyway to prevent or predict such an unfortunate disorder - do it.
@Mr. Scuz Your saying test for it and if it's positive kill it before it develops? Yeah, I think that's probably for the best, for everyone, really out of mercy
@Mr. Scuz yeah I feel the same way
NO ONE every said termination was required. Women just decide they don't want to bring that into the world. Why do they talk to everyone but the women directly responsible with terminating DS.
It is nonsense to conflate what kind of society we wish to live in with my birth choices.
I embrace diversity but I choose not to give birth to a child with Down Syndrome or other disabilities that can be determined early in pregnancy.
Me too
Anti-abortionists use her exact argument, minus the downs.
this is going to sound so stupid but are people with downs syndrome able to have kids? (I feel so stupid for asking)
Yes
Yes, if both parents have down syndrome, the child will have down syndrome. There are TV shows in which people with down syndrome get married.
I recently read an article that said the males with down syndrome have a high rate of infertility. The girls have
normal fertility.
If two people with downs fall pregnant doesn’t guarantee that their child will automatically be downs too...
@@emilyalcorn3547 Subtraction of negative numbers equals a plus.
A child is a child is a child!
As many of you are pointing out, and many people who haven’t commented here do as well, it’s a woman’s right to to as she wishes to her own body… but he fact remains the DNA of a Foetus, isn’t hers to eliminate or destroy.
First you need to learn how to write then you come with your woke ideas. If a fetus is growing in MY body I do whatever I want, don't like? Go cry to your mommy.
We are all human beings and deserve to live just like everyone else
most people in developed countries are having fewer and fewer children due to cost. some are only having one child. you wouldn't want your one child to be limited by a genetic disorder.
The odds are he/she would be limited cognitively with a 50 +/- IQ, meaning they would be unable to support themselves independently. And if you are only going to have 1 or 2 kids and you want
grandchildren keep in mind reproduction rates of Downs adults are exceedingly low - especially for males.
Also keep in mind that in a public health care system like the UK it might be considered selfish for parents to knowingly bring a Downs child - and their massively increased health care costs - into a public system.
Thankfully 90% of pregnant women carrying a Downs fetus agree that starting over is the best solution for all.
Steve Bennett
So if a child becomes paralyzed due to an accident, parents should be able to kill their kid since they will be a financial burden and most likely not produce grandchildren for you?
There are arguments to be made on why terminating a baby with Down syndrome is the correct decision, but not yours.
@@tylers9888 Oh my, you are as tiresome as your reasoning is specious. Go back to watching Fox "news."
Stop bullying society by normalising every single disability! Enough already. Let parents decide if they will be able to cope.or not.
I belive her point is that people need to have more information and understand that Down Syndrome is not the catastrophy people expect.
"bullying society" how? what is she doing that's stopping parents to do anything? she's not taking anything from you. If you feel guilty start questioning that.
"We're not screening *out*" she says and then proceeds to insinuate that living with down syndrome isn't worth it as you get older, giving us a reason why people would, precisely, screen out down syndrome fetuses. Edit: also, the film maker at no point in the documentary has said women shouldn't have the right to abortion, she's not advocating against abortion so it's a weird focus to take in the comments, she's advocating for the voices of people with down syndrome so that women who do have fetuses with down syndrome make an informed choice, not based on stigma cemented by ableism in the medical field.
I don't understand how anyone could think having a down syndrome baby is a disaster ..personally I think they're a complete blessing .. the stigma is so wrong and are wonderful loving beautiful loving human beings .. wow we can have what is classed as a 'normal' baby and can go through hell ..what is normal ?? A child is a child a person a human being and deserve to be treat as just that ... I always actually wanted a down syndrome child and actually considered adoption but I ended up disabled myself so I couldn't go thru with it sadly ... this is a great documentary well done for doing this xxx
Down syndrome is a genetic disorder that negatively affects a child's ability to mature into an adult. You sit here and espouse how a child with down syndrome is a blessing to you, but what about the child?
What future do they have?
It is a mental disability. If it can be somehow prevented, it should be.
Dare I say you think of your joy in what you see as beautiful more important than the welfare of what you see beautiful.
And that is quite selfish.
I will say that I can appreciate your compassion, but Down's syndrome is a situation that I believe scientifically can be avoided and by all means any responsible adult should take those precautions.
I do not believe in abortion.
I believe that everyone has a right to live, but if we can prevent suffering in the lives of the ones we love, even if it means we take precautions before they are even born, we should.
@@ADZ1LL4 I think your the jackass I can't believe your ignorance and rudeness .. does olly loom like he is having a bad life does the child doing gymnastics look like she's having a bad life ?? No !! They have health problems which any child can have so does that mean we should get rid of any child thsts imperfect ?? I'm not interested in your ignorant point of view
@@johnmchakeres omg and you call me selfish .. you have your thoughts and I'll have mine but let's not hope this happens to you or the poor child ..who can live a perfectly happy life in society.. will end up in an abortion clinic .... omg wow !!!
In the end of the day they are still kids. They are sweet and loving. I haven seen sutch a sweet kid in a long time.
If you like mentally impaired children then by all means adopt all of them since you don't want them terminated.
Why aren't you doing this?
Or do you think you're better than everyone and will decide for them what they have to do for the rest of their life.
You are the selfish person who doesn't realise that not only will the child have a bad life but also the entire family. Their life will end once it's born because they need care 24/7 (not all countries can provide helpers) and then once the family dies the now adult child will also suffer because it can't take care of itself.
The solution is not too eliminate downs syndrome (or any disability) but to love them and accept them as they are, no matter how long they live
@Amanda Charlebois suffering to whom may I ask? I think I can see where you're coming from. But I disagree that eliminating it will achieve anything. The more we study it and understand it. The easier we make the lives of people who are born with it. Surely that is better ?
13:28
13:25 I like that kid
Hopefully one day we will be able to screen better and be able to stop 10 out of 10. No parent should have to deal with a life-long toddler that will end up with dementia at 45.
@Grant Trent you're lucky they can't screen for ignorance and intolerance
@Grant Trent very ignorant... I wish there was a screening for stupidity!!!
As someone who has had the privilege of working alongside people with downs I think it is horrendous that in this 'enlightened ' era we are still chosing to obort babies because they might be different. Thank you Sally for bringing this to the world's attention
'Different'? Well that's one way of glossing over it!
I learned that people with Down Syndrome are the world's most friendliest happiest people out of the whole majority. Why terminating pregnancies to avoid giving Down Syndrome births? They make the world a better place because they never lie, never commit any crime, or being violent. They're mostly victims of living in a world that don't love them. People need to understand that they're the safest trustworthy peaceful type of people that do no harm to others. They have the power of keeping families together at all times.❤
All of what you say here is not true. It may be true about some people with Down syndrome, but, in fact, many do become violent, many stay in diapers all their lives, and no one is happy all the time.
The comment about how much harder they have to work to reach their goals after seeing a gymnast with down syndrome.... I just wanted to let people know that as a former gymnast training for even more than sixteen hours a week is rather standard.
I like to say they just have a chromosome to much
If they want to know about their ancestry they should just get one of them genetic test kits from 24andMe.
I have up syndrome
Feeling 10 out of 10 annoyed. Time to change society.
No one may be forced, but they sure are being persuaded