A Threat To Society
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2021
- Star Trek The Next Generation s03e11 The Hunted
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Outro Music: • STAR TREK - THE NEXT G... & • Magical Trevor : Episo... - Zábava
"Back in Vietnam we had a code. You watch my back, I watch yours. But here there's nothing! I could drive a tank, I was in charge of million dollar equipment! Here I can't even get a job PARKING CARS!" - Rambo
Amazing movie.
Good quote, but just because you drove that equipment doesn't mean you're qualified. The standards in the civvy world are significantly higher, many soldiers have driven APCs and accidentally damaged cars, even ran people over, and they either remain quiet about it or essentially get a slap on the wrist.
Just because you drove a million dollar tank, doesn't mean you're an expert at driving cars. It just means you drove one.
Civilian world has much higher standards, even with aviation.
So to get pissed off about it all is to realize that you didn't understand that the military world is different than the civilian world.
@@sacr3 All good points. It is a terrific quote, with a great performance by Stallone. I'm just a civvie, and even I know there is no MOS that trains you to drive a tank and a gunship!
That said, did the military make any effort to transition the troops back to civilian life? Then or now? I doubt it.
@@DrownedInExile no they for sure didn't that is true, they just drop most vets, which is very sad as it is their life they were/are willing to give for the very country that dumps them.
Troi: "I want to help you."
Guy: "Unlock the door."
I love that.
Didn't even have the Picard "Oh lord, didn't anybody here subscribe? Thank you" intro
Yet I still heard it.
Troi: "What was this man's crime...?"
Data: "Like I said, a very honorable tour of duty."
When originally aired, I was watching this with a 'Nam vet with PTSD. He started getting upset when Troi asked Danar about military service. I turned off TV, and he started, for the first time, talking about 'Nam. Then started crying. He wound up getting help at VA , and told me that other vets had same reactions from this episode, all discussed in group therapy.
Oh, days when Trek tackled serious issues and generated emotional responses.
It's such a relevant subject, even today our VA benefits are still insufficient. My childhood friend had a father who served in Vietnam who never recovered and always panicked when July the 4th came around and fireworks would go off. He never got to live in anywhere other than a shack barely twenty feet wide.
@@jonathansotelo4877 Fireworks should be banned because of that, among other reasons.
oooh poor war criminal followed illegal orders and now keeps bitching about feeling bad
They probably wrote the episode with that in mind.
Worth mentioning that Troi actually earned her keep in this ep. When she sensed something was unusual about a prisoner, she investigated it because no one else would, and wound up uncovering a massive violation of human- er, Angosian rights. If she hadn't said anything Picard might have been more inclined to offer assistance to the government against these dangerous "criminals" at the end.
Agreed. Nice to see Troi not only get something to DO, but do it well. (to the point of being VITAL to the situation)
First time she’s ever done anything useful then
The term you are looking for, in Federation usage, is apparently “sentient rights” or “the rights of sentience.” In Star Trek: 25th Anniversary, this was the term used by the computer on the NCC-1071, relative to the problems with the Vardaine civilization.
Sure, but the most distracting part was, that Troi's suit was far too revealing.
@@mardus_ee Man, Trek fans really are just terrible people
"orbiting gulag"
Heavy Stalins breathing
As a veteran I understand the problem with this. They wanted a soldier and they are now scared of what they got. Sounds familiar.
Yes, they made them into a weapon but once they served their purpose, the government made no effort reintegrating them into a society where they were unable to function after all they went through.
@@xxlCortez It's not the soldier training, though. It's the trauma plus the gradually perceived pointlessness. A (relatively) healthy society can bring forth healthy soldiers.
As I like to say: *Everything flows from the root.* (That is why we must be radical in our approach to solve problems.)
Because we truly know that it is our government does ,and the horrors it brings as they treat us as a threat .
Kipling even wrote about this in his poem "Tommy":
I went into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
Make a weapon, use that weapon... When that weapon isn't required any more it's supposed to seamlessly reintegrate into society.
Then it's all surprised pikachu when a former weapon is put in a threatening situation and that weapon does what it was meant to do.
If Data was written with what we know today, he’d be utterly unstoppable. No tactic could stop him, no method. It’s crazy to think about.
You'll notice, I hope, that the writers tended to find ways of taking Data out of the action in some episodes, because if he'd been there, the plot would have been solved instantly.
It actually happens in one episode. He hijacks the Enterprise because his creator Dr. Soong activated a come home program he installed into him at his creation.
@@user-wz5lm3nl8s that’s one of my favorite episodes. Especially the part where he encrypts the Enterprise computer with Picard’s voice. And it’s even just a fraction of what he could really do if he was written with what we know now in mind.
Data has always been unstoppable.
Data with basic logic "He's in X section. I have evacuated all routes. Venting oxygen."
*roll credits*
Fans have frequently criticise the character of Troi for being nothing more than a pretty face whose contributions were minimal.
Truthfully this is more a reflection on the production team rather than the character herself.
When written properly and with purpose, Troi more than earns her place on board the Enterprise.
She has always been depicted as smart, caring, competent and loyal. It's a pity the writers never bothered to show that more.
shame all she is doing in this clip is crying and begging people to help the guy. Soo unprofessional. Or bad acting. Or both.
She was outstanding when they wrote the episode where she was kidnapped and altered to look Romulan. I wish they wrote more great stories for her like that. She showed off her acting chops.
So basically, this guy is the Winter Soldier of Star Trek.
Oh my God, it's Jason Bourne!
@@swaghauler8334 Bourne in space
He's a Vietnam Veteran of Star Trek. This episode is PRECISLEY that.
Rambo. He is Star Trek's Rambo.
@@rcslyman8929 "Let it go, counsellor. Let... it... GO."
The first 30 seconds of The Doctors Zygon speech, kind of ring in this scene. "When you have won and everything is just as you want it, what are you going to do with the people like you?" Or specifically in this instance, What are you going to do with those you created to give you this, to prevent the next uprising?
his entire speech can be summed up in every war. Be it America and every country. Russia and Ukraine, Israel and Palestine. Millions will die, only for them to eventually sit down and talk. In Ukraine V Russia's case, its Zelesnkyy who wont talk. As he said back in 2020 "we dont want negotiations. We will wipe all of Russia out or die." At least Palestine and Israel are open to talks.
@@AzguardMikehey, can you pass around some of what you’re snorting?
Indeed, in the 15th Century, soldiers returning from war had difficulty returning to civilian life. That's one of the reasons for the Crusades, to keep them busy and away from society.
@@Smeginatoryou should probably stop snorting whatever it is you are. Remember Maidan?
@@Smeginatoryou should probably stop snorting whatever it is you are. Remember Maidan?
Love this episode. Did a pretty good job of veteran care, right around the time it was most important.
Troi earned her Federation credits in this episode!
Troi was always annoying
she's practically crying when begging for them to help. Way too emotional and personally involved. She would be taken off this case and it would be reassigned.
@@AzguardMikePractically crying?
And he also called himself a counselor....DUN DUN DUUUUNNN
Never change Star Trek.
(too late :( )
Who did this to him? "His own Government" - nothing new there then . . . . . those tactics have been used since time began by various human governments and are still being done, just a little more sophisicated is all! Why do you think many Veterans commit suicide?
@DriftZ TwoSeven 100? Try 10,000 years.
To be fair, "criticism of the flaws of our current society through the lens of an idealized society" is kinda the point of Star Trek (although DS9 did it in reverse, criticizing the Federation for the flaws of our society, because by that point, that's what we saw ourselves as)
@DriftZ TwoSeven yeah, that's why I love DS9
And what do you mean by "chosen people"?
@DriftZ TwoSeven ah, so you're a bigoted dumbass, that's what I assumed but wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. Occam's razor and not treating an entire cultural/religious/ethnic group as a monolithic entity with no variation (ie, not being a blatant racist) will help here: if you need a giant conspiracy that is actively contradicted by real life to justify your hatred of Jewish people or explain why (predominantly Christian conservative) rich people are ruthlessly greedy (and not even explain it well, just rely on centuries-old stereotypes used to justify genocides), you have too much moronic bullshit in your "logic" and need to re-evaluate why you need to hate a group consisting of random innocents, children, doctors, historians, public servants, and all other walks of life for being a part of a culture that isn't you.
@DriftZ TwoSeven also, don't use Star Trek to justify your bullshit. Star Trek, a specifically progressive, anti-racist, anti-fascist communist Utopia, doesn't support you, don't pretend it does.
The man's crime (Troi asks what was his crime) was simply that the training and conditioning hed' received to become a certain type of soldier made him too much of a risk to be allowed to reintegrate into society. Or so we were told later int he episode. It is not that dissimilar to the Federation's own rules regarding people like Dr Bashir and genetic enhanced people.
Trekkie For Life!!!
This reminds me of a video on India-Pakistan relations. The topic of the chapter was on supporting terrorist groups and the general idea was the phrase, “play stupid games, win stupid prizes,” in reference to the fact that terrorism is a dumb game and any government that tries to arm terrorists tends to have said terrorists turn right back against them. I just now realized that is often what happens with militaries in general. People who become soldiers become scarred, and might not receive sufficient treatment to reintegrate into society, thus causing trouble. “Play stupid games, win stupid prizes” indeed.
"what was this man's crime" he literally murdered 2 guards trying to escape bro
"The flag may be different but the methods are the same..."
-Viktor Reznov, Soviet Red Army
Lol COD.
the mans only crime was not being able to de-program himself, and forget years of experience and training that was meticulously drilled into him.
I actually found myself singing out loud today when doing the dishes "BEANS LOTS OF BEANS! LOTSA BEANS! LOTSABEANS!" So catchy lmao
I don't get it.
I hadn't seen one of these in a while, when I heard the "beans lots of beans! " start it was so soothing somehow lol
We've bean living in a society.
This episode is one of my favorites, partly because it shows how having a psychologist on board could be absolutely critical. Troi wasn't just there to look good and say "He's hiding something" this time -- the drama was inside one person's skull, and a psychologist was needed to get a grip on it.
When Troi points out how he isn’t the same man who left home to fight, I was reminded of an actual interview with an accomplished military sniper. She asked the soldier what he felt when he, I don’t remember, pulls the trigger or hits his target or something. You know what his answer was? “Recoil.”
That comes up in the book Generation Kill too
My parents' dentist was a CIA sniper in Nam, and he was rather macabre. Needless to say, they chose to have their teeth cleaned elsewhere.
There was a meme about this:
A CNN reporter, while interviewing a marine sniper, asked: "What do you feel when you shoot a terrorist?"
The marine shrugged and replied: "Recoil."
PS, gotta love it when a years old video gets put in your recommended
@@AvangionQ Then I’m guessing I misremembered more so than I believed. Still, when we kill, something else in us always dies. If somebody never had a problem with taking a life, for any reason, it means they never had that something in them to die in the first place.
That’s a typical army joke
He didn’t think of that line
Sometimes I don't know which fiction character's story hits me hardest, Danar or Rambo.
I'm going with Rambo, mostly because of his breakdown in the end.
Though I must admit Danar is even worse off than Rambo. Anything his programming sees as an attack is answered with violence and he has no control over it. Added come the changes to his body. Can he still have kids? Would one or more of the changes transfer to his offspring?
@@grayscribe1342 Yeah, at least the Star Trek story ended on something of a hopeful note. I gather from the dialogue that a lot of his struggle is the psychological conditioning, which, mercifully, wouldn't be passed on to children.
Now we need Richard Creena to set Picard straight.
"I appreciate your concern Mr. Trautman. We will take every precaution to ensure your man is apprehended without harm."
"Captain you don't seem to understand. I didn't come here to protect him from you. I'm here to protect YOU from him!"
At first, I thought they handed me the wrong dossier. I couldn't believe they wanted this man dead. Third generation West Point, top of his class. Korea, Airborne. About a thousand decorations.
Martin Sheen, Apocalypse Now
orbiting gulag
now now TNG don't give the current-day maniacs any ideas, bad enough your captain went off the deep end in that spin off universe.
Spin-off?
I thought Star Trek Picard was Prime Universe.
Troi just has a thing for hot emotionally damaged guys!
There exists a special forces group in the US Army called Delta Force. Very high security, they make the Rangers look like cub scouts. They are kept carefully separate from the other units, and as much as possible, separate from civilian society. They end up very dangerous men indeed.
when i rewatched this i think the spartan 2s and 3s of halo franshise
Better title, An Orbiting Gulag
gulag is a perfect analogy since many veterans were among the first sent there
Data just doesn’t wanna do another diagnostic on the sensors.
Sounds like the Marines!
The Star Trek Jason Bourne
2:43 Frakes was so hot back then. Those piercing blue eyes.
Walla walla wa
Troi is really into this guy
Star treks first blood
That meeting at the end, that was like 5000 takes and the group takes cgi'd in, god i hate how i can see that now
Looking back now, can't help but 🤔 think of the "Jason Bourne" concept here... Makes me wonder, did this TNG story line, have any influence on the "Bourne" series writer? Lots of parallels here ?
They never really explain: does this guy have free will or not? Either way, he's pretty dangerous: no wonder the Angosians kept him locked up.
Ever see the Outer Limits episode Soldier? It's in Black and White.
yes
I didn't come here to save Counselor Troy from you, I came to save You from Counselor Troy
"Military? He's a soldier." I always love that jump to conclusion stuff they do in Trek.
No, just because you're held in a miltiary prison does not mean you yourself are a soldier. Al Qaeda terrorists are not "soldiers" in any conventional sense, but they are held in military prisons as enemy/technical combatants.
Beans lots of beans.
First bean contact
Check out 'Tommy' by Rudyard Kipling. T'was ever thus.
It's quite an accomplishment to get the rank of Subahdar. 😉
2:08 It started when he volunteered, and met his first instructor.
Does he mean Sgt Hartmann, from Full Metal Jacket?
Career Sgt Zim
@@whiteknightcat "And the first thing that 'counsellor' said to me? 'I wonder if there's a handful of guts in the whole bunch of you. Now, who here thinks they got what it takes to knock me down?'"
Man, we need a Starship Troopers / Trek crossover like it kills. :-)
I was curious why they were standing instead of sitting at the conference table like usual.
"His cell structure has been significantly altered. They used a combination of nonsense words the writers came up with, which I will now try to pronounce as I rattle them off while still attempting to sound vaguely believable."
a logical captain would look at Troi and be all "you're too emotional woman. You are off the case."
God didn't create him. I created him! RAMBO!
So the Fed's have complete access to their records. That's interesting.
The Enterprise has the most premium space internet a moniless post scarcity society can buy.
The Angosians were applying to join the Federation. I believe that as part of that, they opened their records for general inspection
2:58 Say WHAT NOW!!!???
I wonder how many takes it took her to be able to spit out that big mouthful of gobbledegook
Execute Order 66.
Irony of ironies a few episodes later Danar and his fellow soldiers would launch a violent insurrection on Luna V then making their way to Angosia to take their revenge on the very government that "trained" and then imprisoned them.
That happened later in the _same_ 3rd season episode, _The Hunted._
Episode content: pre-Jason Bourne.
Orbiting Gulag...
The writers clearly saw First Blood.
Lol
i got robbed,...
im getting robbed....
how long will i stand there before someone tells someone that im still standing waiting,...
A Spartan?
A supersoilder
Why isn’t Worf at this briefing?
I actually think season 3 was tngs best to be fair. Like this is great episode but it’s not even anywhere near seasons 3’s best
Season 3 was when the show was on the rise, it had already established its own identity and was building up to greatness. Seasons 4 and 5 were in an amazing groove, turning out excellent episodes, week after week. Season 6 was a bit of a decline, but was still delivering strong episodes on a consistent basis. Season 7 was running out of ideas, and was nowhere near the heights of seasons past, but was still able to produce a good episode or two.
I would have loved to have seen more of this show, but I'm glad that they stopped when they did. It left the audience wanting more, it set a great precedent for the later shows, and above all, it didn't wear out its welcome. I know that I would have watched an 8th season, but I would have been begging for them to just stop by the end.
People forget how good a character Troi was, and how much Marina put into the role.
I get the angle this episode was going for, but it's worth mentioning the episode ends with a group of these traumatized combat vets (with irremovable violence implants in their biochemistry) staging a coup and holding the Angosian government hostage, at which point the Enterprise dusts its hands off and just leaves, "job well done everyone."
I mean... Am I nuts, or is that an even more unstable situation to leave your "allies" in than before? Because freeing them doesn't stop them from turning murderous on a dime.
Once Picard realized that the society had created their own problem and then failed to handle it adequately, he felt obliged to abide by the Prime Directive, no interference in the internal affairs of another world. Never mind that Picard ignored that rule frequently.
They weren't allies yet and given the circumstances I wouldn't have tried to defend the government either.
soldiers don't have needles and thread? why the ripped uniform? lol
Yet another of TNG's aliens who want and demand help...just not too much and don't ask any questions. At least these weren't 'desperate and dying'.
Stng Bourne episode
Something similar happened to British soldiers after the Napoleonic wars.
Only then it was the war that changed them, not the training. They had a hard time fitting in. Often struggled to find new employment, or even a home.
I understand the USA went through something similar after Vietnam.
It's not widely known, but many of them wound up here in Latin America. Simon Bolivar's cavalry were gauchos, yes, but most of his infantry were British.
Very unsubtle commentary about veterans and post-war PTSD. But needed, I suppose.
baked beans or what?
It was a great action packed episode, but why do they have a prime directive if they keep breaking it ?
To make them think before intervening
This isn't a situation where it applies, the Angosians had established contact with, were asking help from and trying to enter the UFP.
In this episode contact is already etablished and PETITIONED Federation for membership and are undergoing audit.
That's the drama of the show, to put them in dilemmas on the edge of their civilisation where the prime directive is challenged, and special circumstances apply.
you guys are sleeping on the power of cryptobiolin triclinadil macrospendol and a few others I can't recognize
Cringe 😂
ya sure that he aint just big blk and scary?
i only hung out with him a few times... ....
Jesus Christ...
*THAT'S JASON BOURNE*
I like how they point out in this episode that the society is liberal in many ways, and yet they can still justify their actions. We liberals are not immune to injustice, we're just better at hiding it.
this actor is so unconvincing as a hardened and violent soldier
Because he is NOT violent. Fighting is NOT only about going berserk. R. Heinlein explained it in BOOK "Starship Troopers" - precise, controlled application of violence, as much as possible under the circumstances.
@@piotrd.4850 he is meant to be portraying a man who has killed dozens of people, with severe PTSD - a hardened veteran. He doesn't carry that at all - far too soft.
They picked a cute actor able to do fake punches and play-fighting well, and then able to physically fit into one of the possibly pre-fabricated costumes from the TNG costume department, which outfit was not meant for too muscular men. - Instead of someone who's hardened, tough, toned, cute, and able to do fake punches well.
Given the tight scheduling, the casting people must have been also short of time.
In late 1989, when production for "The Hunted" commenced, Jeff McCarthy was 35 years of age (born 1954), and looked a lot like Joe Flanigan (1967) in Stargate: Atlantis in 2004 (then aged 37).
But it should be kept in mind, that while most European-trained soldiers are trim and tough, they do not look like beefcake either.
Neither do "The Three Soldiers" (aka "The Three Servicemen") in the Vietnam War sculpture by Frederick Hart that is stood at the National Mall in Washington, D.C.
And then there is the in-universe explanation: Angosians have a different, probably weaker-looking physique compared to humans, and Roga Danar was _the_ most fit male Angosian in that age group.
Given the extensive engineering on his body, he may have probably been designed to look less strong / less toned in order to appear weaker. This has a tactical advantage, because then an adversary might underestimate his strength and abilities.
Would it better if they made someone with PTSD take the role?
Not really the _perfect soldier_ if they cant control their tempers in a none violent/life threatening situation.
The whole episode was a commentary on how we treat our veterans.
Did anyone catch the need for the federation to be analyzing the database of the alien race *before* admittance into the federation? 0:20. The federation is snooping and pretty sure this is kind of unethical when really thought about. But whatever. This obviously isn't the case. Just an observation
They gave over the records voluntarily, plus why wouldn’t you inspect them?
@@gargoyles9999 sure, fine. But imagine if Russia turned over their entire database to the U.N before finalizing admittance. Lol spying and espionage for the win. Same as if the Romulans up and turned over their database to starfleet. Yeah, okay.
@@drockjr
Let's make it real obvious for even the smoothest of smooth brains.
Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan wants to join the UN. What do you do?
@@D8W2P4 obviously you take them completely at their word and verify nothing, worked great with Greece.
@@D8W2P4 Nuke them apparently
Troi is a pretty lame character. First, she ignores the prime directive, then: "he committed no crime". Murder is not a crime to her I guess.
She means the only people he killed were because of orders. He did not murder civilians, just soldiers. That's why their was no police record because their was no crime just war
Well, the three guards that he killed to escape don't count towards his initial sentence.
@@TheZetaKai self defense,
Picard wasn't much better, in fairness.
Prime Directive doesn't apply. The Angosians are already in contact with the Federation and auditing for joining.
Don't crime....
just trash people who told lies soo that they could steal a family and money
"You're a non-violent man yet you committed acts of violence."
God Troi sucks as counselor. Uh, Troi? Yeah, that means he's a violent man. "It's not what I am underneath, but what I DO that defines me." - Batman. That's exactly what he is.
This is a notion I have never been able to get behind. What you choose to do, is what you are. Saying otherwise is all fine and dandy, but when you commit acts of barbarism, you are a barbarian.
I get what you are saying. But perhaps what this is trying to portray is that intent AND action are important.
What was this man's crime? Murder. Rationalized by the fact he was doing what he was told. For money. In return, he is confused at who's to blame.
Did you watch the episode at all?
You didn’t actually watch the episode did you
I'm a utube baby. Lol. We don't watch TV, just utube shorts
"Can I see a police report on Roga Danar?"
"He has none."
"Can I see a picture of his 🍆?"
and then she rushes down to the brig to investigate further...