Its great that you measure amps that have a high reputation and then find all is not what it seems,this brillaint channel is the tube equivalent of ASR,thankyou so much.Its geeting the righ amount of the right tube distortion that makes a great tube amp,too much and its a muddy mess..
And like the "color" preamp we did on this channel allows the user to do, tube amps are tunable by the designer in that same way. There is nothing wrong if a user loves the way high THD in a tube amp sounds, for me there is a range that sounds good, and past that it's sorta a one trick pony, that only works really well with certain types of music.
I agree Stephe! The best example was that Nelson Pass 'power' amp. Many glowing reviews of that amp, but when you tested it, I saw the WORST distortion curve of any amp I'd seen in a long time! It's CRAP! Nice cabinet but the old components used look like they were lying in the bottom of the designer's toolbox. Or maybe the designer had a pallet load of components to sell? And yes, this latest amp you've analysed is NOTHING special at all as well. NO WAY would you get 6 usable watts in bridge mode - More like 4 watts, so they LIED about its specs! I have no confidence or trust in these reviewers. I trust the readings you get from your audio analysis software!
Sorry… don’t want to be disrespectful, but I think we are missing the whole point here. The reason we purchase sound equipment is for enjoyment. We listen through our ears, not measuring equipment. For myself personally, I will always remember the first time I listened to a system that was different. It was a tube integrated amp and it gave me goosebumps. I have never been able to make a co-relation between that phenomenon and measurements. Many hi end companies do this. Final tuning is done … by ear. .. I will always remember when CD’s first came out: PERFECT sound was advertised with charts and figures to prove it. Yeah! Right… Bottom line: we all have different tastes. We all have imperfect hearing. What ever we prefer, gives us satisfaction, within our budget… that is what we should purchase and enjoy.
How do you know what you don't know? Yes, we purchase sound equipment for enjoyment. I'm willing to bet 99% of the population of the planet have never heard a hi end stereo system and have no experience to compare with. Around 1990, I was in the showroom of a hi end audio store and I heard the full glory of a pair of Klipsch Chorus IIs. I blew my wad on the speakers and never could afford anything better than the crappy, low end, 1980s JVC receiver I already had. I knew the potential of those speakers. When one does have listening experience, knowledge, skills and test equipment then listens to a crappy amp, they can then try to diagnose the cause based on symptoms. With a solid base of a design and the above attributes, one can build an exceptional amp that might retail for $10,000. For me, THAT IS the point here that I am NOT missing. Because of Skunkie's effort and generosity, I am currently building an EAR phono preamp, a source selector and a pair of KT120 monos. If Skunkie hadn't built trust, demonstrated her knowledge and skills and stirred a desire in me to finally build a tube amp, I would not likely have ever done so. Now, thanks to Skunkie, I'm finally going to have a system that doesn't suck - and I'm doing it myself. THAT is the point for me. All one has to do is watch the videos and listen to what she says. It's not JUST about the measurements - it's about the sound but the measurements help understand how the components effect the sound and allows for making informed decisions when selecting components.
I agree with you. I made a similar comment as well. The human ear and brain are far more complex than the current test equipment used to measure audio equipment. Measurements do have a purpose, but I don't know of any audio manufacturer who designs and puts on the market equipment solely based on measurements. They also listen to how it sounds and that is the most important element before bringing it to market.
Did you guys both miss my comments on how this sounds? No, you don't listen to measurement devices and graphs, but you are hearing the distortion they measure. And no just because an amp measures well doesn't mean it sounds good, most of the amps I give a thumbs up to have some THD and less than perfect measurements. And yeah a high distortion amp can sound fantastic with a very specific type of music, but they can quickly become a one trick pony when more complex types of music are played on them. If all you listen to is horn jazz or female vocalists, these types of amps sound fantastic to most people.
Thanks for your honesty and courage to publish your true impressions. Would love to see what some tube-rolling does for your impressions and/or measurements. Thanks again.
Thank you for this editorial. I've followed the rave reactions by reviewers of Decware amps for several years and always wondered what a real objective review from someone who knows the technical aspects of tube amplifiers (you) think of them. Keep up the honest, objective and educational evaluations of all tube amp subjects/products.
I'm a Decware owner and gave a thumbs up to this and the last review, first of all measurements don't like, plus everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't know the model you have there, as I only have the circa 3k version with voltage regulators for every audio tube, among other tube amps, and love the little guy for late night listening at low to reasonable volumes, it makes the sound "carry" better at low levels than the larger transmission tube amps (211, GM70). I've rolled almost twenty different input tubes, and while I love the 6N1P-EV these amps come with standard (I wouldn't know of a better bang for the buck choice in the large 6922/ECC88 family of 9-pin preamp tubes), it does produce a tubey-rich, some might say sirupy sound that I don't necessarily associate with the amp itself, nor necessarily strapped Pentodes (Aries Cerat built strapped 813 amps for years that sound anything but syrupy). Although modern Electro Harmonix sound pretty vile to me (that is unless they're NOS from back in the days), if you roll one, you'll probably notice the 6P15P-EV output tubes aren't what makes the amp sound "tubey" at all. Anyways, while I can see distortion figures are going to be high depending on the speaker one uses, it's not like these were the only amps with distortion that high. The famous Kondo Ongaku 211 integrated that everyone looks up to as a reference easily sports 5% specified. The more noticeable problem to me tends to be clipping and compression ahead of time, by which I mean, music is going to sound compressed way before the amp in question starts to clip. In all, careful matching is crucial. Needless to say, I love more neutral-sounding amplifiers as well (not claiming the Decware is the greatest amp out there, nor even in my collection, as much pleasure I as it gives me listening to it), as I like variety, in music as well as in sound. To each their own.
Good health to your partner. Much more important than anything else. Really enjoy your sincerity. I’m in the market for the ultimate tube amplifier with either 2a3 or EL34 tubes. The variables involved in choosing an amp make true comparisons near impossible. Can’t vary well compare a 300b tube to a kt150 and since they are not interchangeable on the same amp, and any true comparison fails. So we either have to rely on reviewers (yuk) or on measurements (yuk). Very few showrooms around and even fewer who let you you demo their equipment in your home.
I'm a SS person but I love your channel--I've learned a lot. I dabbled in tubes briefly (with a tube pre-amp) but went back to SS. I recently purchased a SS integrated that always gets rave reviews online---but so far, I'm not impressed. I may end up selling it. Keep up the good work and sending good vibes to your partner.
Sound sound sound. In the end, how does it sound? Best tube matcher? The amplifier. Best gauge of tweaks and adjustments, the sound. But, measuring can be so fun! Thats why i love this hobby. I love your channel and what you do. You inspire me to get my hands in there (one in the pocket!) And make adjustsments and changes . Thank you for your hardwork.
Obviously the sound is it in the end. I have learned high THD amps can sound perfectly fine with very specific types of music. Go outside of those categories and maybe not so much. The gear you are using can actually at some point start choosing what music you listen to for you...
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics I completely agree. I've found that my enjoyment of triode vs UL depends on what I'm listening to. Unfortunately at this stage I have a young child so my tube amps are sequestered to my workshop essentially. Currently using a pioneer SX 9000 that I rebuilt. Before my child could stand up however I had a lot of enjoyment with a jolida and a reisong mt-34 that I modified heavily. Both push pull EL34 amplifiers, with the Chinese one being triode or UL.
It is such a hurdle run when you're getting fresh into this topic. Tubes in general for me. Hopefully my first 300b is going to be a decent one. Hope your forum can help if my post finally gets accepted. 😁
Are there any audio stores for tube amps anymore? the market for vintage records has really grown, there is a need. People of today have never to hear tube audio and rely on reviewers too much. I would drive hundreds of miles to make a purchase if so. I cant tell you how many amps I returned. Thanks for the video, very good point and needed to have been said.
Most reviewers know little about how the products they review work and simply rely on their ears to judge them. A lot of us are exactly the same. I know I was before I bought my first tube amp and found I had to understand how it works to get it to sound good. It could also be that our ears hear so differently and our brains influence what we hear such that we will never completely agree about how music should sound. And that is OK by me. We can all have different amps operating at varying levels of distortion if that is what makes us happy.
While I like you your channel, approach and honesty ....Like many things, the irony of music and music reproduction is that it is a highly personal and subjective thing! In fact right from the off music creation, playing, refinement, honing, mixing and recording (a track or performance), to the final masters and reproduction.... the sonic variables and possibilities are almost limitless! ...and as such, everything throughout the process is a compromise of sorts... and open to neverending personal debate! Which is perhaps why opinions often become highly conflicting, controversial and contentious throughout - as people often want or project their personal tastes onto others and hope they might agree or buy into ...or not! Even band members and producers get into heated discusions and disputes over the sound, tone and sonic presentation etc, etc! But like food and drink....some people prefer sweet and syrupy things, others more simple, subtle, or smooth, while others prefer savoury, crunchy, sharp and bitter things! ...and most fluctuate all the time, wanting different things on different days 😂 Therefore "subjectively" speaking the only job of a reviewer (or critic) is to have the ability to accurately decern and describe the different favours, textures and characteristics of kit in relation to their own subjective tastes! ....which in the case for hifi reviewers is to describe how different components sound and work together ...so that others can get a general or specific idea of whether a component or a system might be suitable to demo, try or buy...over other options! Even as a amateur guitarist some guitars and amps can sound subjectively amazing to me, other so so or even crap,... irrespective of brands, cost, reviews and hype! As even playing in different rooms and venues music can sound great or flat and dull. So personally I'm not so hard, critical or expectant on others, nor place to much value on all these reviewer's and their different personal opinions ...Nor do I decry all the wide range of (decent, smooth, scratchy and crappy) kit out there ....as ironically they might impress, suit and appeal to someone somewhere...as is the nature of things! Especially when considering even our own moods, tastes and hearing can be fickle and change and vary too! My favourite guitars, amps and hifi gear ...often dont measures well but sure can connect, groove and sing to me!...but perhaps not to my neighbours!😂😂😂😂 So as there is no real perfect setup only choices ...I dont think there is any need to be over picky or judgemental about other people and their views or opinions, nor get upset by herd mentality ...as many people will always believe and bow down to the conflicting views and values of others - even non existent gods and devils 😂😂😂. Therefore just be honest, and true to yourself, and your own tastes, values and opinions ...as I am sure other reviewers are doing their best to do the same too ....in regards what pleases them, makes them happy or pays the bills!
Any audio gear is a compromise. NONE of the gear I build "measures well" and all of it has at least a couple of % of THD at max power. But there is a big difference between a HiFi amp that make 2% THD and one making 6-8% as far as sounding great listening to a wide variety of music. The high THD one might sound really good with a very specific type of music, but you better have another amp to use for more general use. Been there and done that one personally.
I guess I'll have to see for myself. I have two Decware cuircuit boards and associated transformers that I plan on bridging to re-populate the guts of a vintage console and get it working again. Just need to get an order in for the rest of the parts and do the build. At least for my use case it won't be for critical listening but for dinner party music.
That EL34 amp probably has better output transformers from what I'm looking at than the Zen. Also I don't believe the Zen has any negative feedback and that could account for the high distortion. I'm not afraid of a little NFB to clean things up. Just a thought.
Great video..made me laugh too. Most reviewers are just full of chit or ignorant 😂 Ive been fooled before by purchasing an item or 2 that was highly recommended by well known reviewers that were clearly subpar. And the thought of WTF are they hearing crossed my mind. Hope everything goes well with your loved ones.
The manual for the UFO25, which costs almost 3x as much as the UFO but is based on the same basic design, puts peak distortion between 5 and 6 percent THD, complete with a plot. The manual is available for downloading.
I think your channel is a good balance between the reviewers that really have little understand of the electronics & the very technical reviewers. As they use to say, keep on truck'in! I'm glad I haven't been waiting around on Decware's huge waitlist!
Another good video, all valid points. I have a feeling though that you poked a hornets nest again. Online reviewers? Take what they say with a grain of salt, every day they present the latest and greatest thing in audio. I do hope the surgery goes well for your partner. We’re keeping you in our thoughts.
I'm a true believer that price influences what some reviewers think. If it's $XX,XXX dollars, it has to be good or way better than one costing $XXX, which isn't always the case. Yours and my ears are what I buy things on. You like what you like and can spend XYZ , and that's the best one. Personally, I have recently been enjoying an Oldchen EL34 tube amplifier.
Not necessarily. My tube amps don't sound anything like a solid state amp. It's not like there is Decware and anything else you might as well just use a class D amp...
You are echoing some of what Bob Carver said that upset the audiophile trade years ago. I am a retired electronics technician that primarily worked with solid state electronics, but tubes might be interesting as a hobby. Are there sources of vacuum tube amp kits that are good enough where money isn’t being thrown away? The demise of Heathkit & Dynaco is annoying.
Thank you for the honest reviews. There are so few honest reviews on CZcams. For something to be great, something has to be bad. But on CZcams often everything is the best because it helps generate more likes, views, subs, and more money. One was confronted with it recently, and they were like, yeah, I am here to make money., this is my business, of course I want to be successful. If they give bad reviews, then manufacturers will not send them equipment to review.. CZcams reviewers are freelance salespersons. Unfortunately, as you have pointed out numerous times, people build their identify and worth on what they buy, so when you give a negative review on a product, they take it as a personal attack. People are weird.
That pretty much sums it up. Honestly I never intended for my CZcams channel to make money and I'm sure am not dependent on the little bit it generates. When I add up the money I spend on building stuff for the channel, it's a money loser, but it does help pay for this hobby I enjoy.
Thanks Skunkie I hope things go well for you and your partner. I can remember back in 1980’s when everyone was trying to sell me on solid state guitar amps. I never bought in to the hole solid state guitar thing, but a lot people did. Now I have about 10 deferent Tube guitar amps that I can reference. They all sound good but deferent. You take someone who only had a solid state Audio Amp an through in that little Decware an they say my Lord that sounds good. Then you say, you think that one sounds good listen to this one. lol We don’t know what we don’t know
Excellent video, I agree 100%, It may be hard for some to hear but it is the truth. I understand that companies need to have profits for their ongoing success but you shouldn't have to spend so much money for a mediocre amplifier. An amplifier with some power, good linearity, and low distortion should be the benchmark. Ultra linear amplifiers and Macintosh with their cathode windings providing feedback are the real benchmark for tube amplifiers. Triode-based amplifiers with little or no feedback might be nice for instrument amplification where some distortion is part of the desired sound but they are not great for accurate reproduction. I would love to see you do a fixed bias, ultra linear, push pull build with a common cathode long tail phase inverter using the negative bias supply as part of the long tail. Perhaps a 12AX7 or 6SL7 as the inverter and perhaps a 12BH7 or 6SN7 as a drive to a set of KT88 or KT120s. I hope all goes well with your partner's surgery.
I've seen/heard so many rave reviews for the Decware. Many thanks for dispelling the myths with actual data, measurements and critical listening. There is a lot of snake oil out there especially in the cables market. I'm glad that there are people like you to straightly give us the facts so that we can make better informed decisions.
Reviewers and criteria these companies look for in their reviewers. Looking over an application to review a product lately. Contained you must have a high viewer count on social media and subscribers. If its a written review they want previous written work/ reviews and links. If approved you have to test their product and submit video of so many minutes if it is written review they want so many words. The reviewer gets to keep the product from my understanding. And in some cases money might be involved. Consumer these days has to look beyond the popular reviews with a million hits and research what they are purchasing. Take care sugar .
I think a lot of these reviewers know the guys who make the components. And on YT they have to show their faces while they talk about their friends' products. A good number of them have met for sure. On the other hand, they may have met and,....not be friends.
What mess with people's brain is the Snake Oil. I can't believe what people pay for these clearly inferior little amps. Especially for a watts that only delivers less than 3 watts per channel...lol
I think your reviews carry more weight for me because you listen and measure. Some people hinge on one or the other but I think both are equally important. I like to hear or read reviews but I also like to see what consumers are saying. The decware surprised me but I also don't care for triode strapped pentodes either. It's a bit of a let down. Keep up the great work.
To be fair to others, this model does not even have many videos or reviews on YT. Different amp models have different attributes and who has ever listened to the graphs. TThese numbered charts should be thrown out the window and considered of less importance our ears dont hear charts innit... ....past couple vids on this Ive agreed and disagreed a little with somethings done and mentioned, either way objective or not cool video as always. Hope ya well /waves
You absolutely are listening to the distortion an amplifier has. You can't throw that out the window just because it's inconvenient. I've never said anywhere that some distortion in a tube amp is a bad thing, but it's also important to understand how much is there, what the frequency response is and understand that not all types of music sound good with a high THD amplifier when choosing one to purchase.
I think you are correct about where the bar is set. The Decware, Willsenton and Reisong are sold at prices the venders can get for them. They will ride the wave of success as long as they can. Hopefully your work will lead manufacturers to build even better products at lower prices. Pointing out a products flaws should not be a crime.
I can appreciate what you do, but here is my push back. Music is subjective and how it sounds to one person may be completely different to another. The problems with measurements are we don't have the ability to measure everything the human ear hears. So I'm not in the, it has to measure well to be good or sound good camp. To me and many others, music that sounds natural and pleasing, not clinical or devoid of any distortion is best. Have you ever been to a concert and the musicians didn't play a note, but instead handed out the sheet music for everyone to read and determine that it was good? Your ears have to be the judge of what sounds good to you. I used to sell audio back in the early 80's. I have heard tons of gear over the years. I've heard things that measure well and sound bad and things that measure bad and sound good and vice versa. There is no right or wrong. Listen to music with your ears and make your own mind up. Reviewers aren't perfect. But the ones who describe the sound character of the gear properly so people can make a decision about what to buy that meets their needs are best.
See what all you folks pushing back on the measurements are missing is yeah, I listen to this stuff too. And I have seen the pattern on what these measurements also sound like with a wide variety of music. Toss on some horn jazz and these high THD amps sound great. Same with listening the female vocalists like Diana Krall. Try playing some more complex stuff and they trip all over themselves. Forget trying to listen to Rock with them. And no where have I EVER said that just because an amp measures well it's going to sound good. Amir at ASR would trash talk every amp I have built on this channel. ALL of the amps I build have quite a bit of THD, the good kind IMHO. But when an amp starts making 5%+ THD, it's very limited on the types of music that will sound good on it. If that's all they are used for, yeah I'm sure some people love it. Discounting this information and throwing it out the window because it's inconvenient isn't serving consumers or helping them understand what they are buying. I also never said this amp is junk, I just said I didn't care for the sound, for the music I listen to.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics You seemed to make a point that subjective reviewers who didn't bother to measure the equipment were giving out false information to potential buyers. I disagree. If the reviewer describes the type of sound you get and explains the importance of matching the speakers to the amplifier, they are doing the potential buyers a service. I also disagree with only one or two styles of music sound good on these amps. I play music and sing, so I feel like I have a somewhat trained ear. I listen to many different genres of music and everything I listen to sounds fine on these type of amps, if the speakers are well matched to the amp. Matching the speakers and amplifiers together is crucial regardless of whether it is a tube amp or solid state amp. Some fine speakers sound bad when paired with the wrong amp and vice versa. I sold audio equipment in the 80's and the key to helping people select the best equipment to meet their needs had zero to do with measurements and 100% to do with letting them listen to equipment playing the music they liked on different combinations of gear and speakers and letting them decide what sounded best to them. I had very few people ever bring stuff back because they didn't like it after they had it in the their home. Now there also is the factor of the room the music is being played in. The room can make a huge difference and I always let people know that it may sound somewhat different at home and how to compensate for a live room or a dead room and so on. I thank you for your reply but I would suggest digging a little deeper into all the facets of putting together a system that works for the listener.
So you chastise me for giving a less than glowing review of this amp because not only did I give a listening review, I showed the technical reasons why I don't care for the sound. I tried several types of music and the problems were not heard on all styles of music, hence my comment. Simply warning people "matching this amp to the right speakers is important" is a joke and one review I saw recommended some close to $40,000 speakers be used with it... These comments sound like you own this amp and are upset seeing what it actually is. I suggest you dig a little deeper into how high THD in a tube amp limits what will sound good on it.
I do not own this amp. But I do own another amp that you criticized for its measurements. Neither the amp nor the speakers I own measure well. But they sound great together. Why is that? Could it be that certain measurements are just as subjective as actually listening to the sound? Why does a Stradivarius violin sound so much better to the virtuoso players than a modern copy? It isn't measurements. There are certain qualities of sound we simply can't measure on equipment that our ears can measure. More power to you if measurements make you happy. I'll continue to listen to music with my ears and help others select audio equipment that sounds good to their ears. Most equipment doesn't sound good or bad. They sound different from each other. I have heard bad equipment that was defective. You have a following that likes what you do. Congratulations!
Measurements don't "make me happy" and most of my amp designs do not measure what technical reviewers would proclaim are good either. And why do you assume I don't listen to music with my ears? I just reviewed two pairs of speakers and chose to keep the pair that measure worse! As far as some gear like the Reisong A50, it doesn't even start to meet the published power output and unless you have heard what one that has been mod'd sounds like, you have no point of reference. I also have NEVER criticized gear solely on the measurements. Clearly you are upset with my reviews, which I find is common with some folks when an item they chose to buy isn't reviewed positively. Likely is why 90% of the audiophile reviewers give everything positive reviews, it makes their viewers happy.
I think a LOT of fi-fi reviewers are not worth a grain of salt. There are very few that I listen to. The way you undertake analysis, construction and testing cannot be faulted.
i am sure by now we all understand how these hifi reviewers on CZcams work. They are not doing these reviews just because they like to, or because it's a hobby. It might have started out that way, but as they get popular, it is all about the compensation that they are able to get from those reviews. Have you ever noticed all the hifi goodies in the background of their videos. On top of that, have you ever noticed how much stuff they give away to try sucking in more viewership and patronage. Honesty is no longer a criteria as they get popular. Just check out that dude that calls himself the cheap audio man. He started out as someone that seemed very honest. Now he makes like almost a video a day. Real crappy and biased videos that shows how inexperienced he is with hifi equipment. He is acting like he is doing everyone a favor with his crappy videos and he always seem so unprepared. I will bet that every reviewer that reviewed the Decware, got to keep it for free.
No one who builds amps, builds the amp or evaluates their design without using measurement along the way. Yeah, maybe it’s possible to measure well (by someone) but there’s just no excuse to put out an amp or favorably review an amp that objectively performs so poorly. Yeah, some people may like that sound, but that does not mean everyone else who’s trying to make a decision need to by into voodoo.
Its great that you measure amps that have a high reputation and then find all is not what it seems,this brillaint channel is the tube equivalent of ASR,thankyou so much.Its geeting the righ amount of the right tube distortion that makes a great tube amp,too much and its a muddy mess..
And like the "color" preamp we did on this channel allows the user to do, tube amps are tunable by the designer in that same way. There is nothing wrong if a user loves the way high THD in a tube amp sounds, for me there is a range that sounds good, and past that it's sorta a one trick pony, that only works really well with certain types of music.
I agree Stephe! The best example was that Nelson Pass 'power' amp. Many glowing reviews of that amp, but when you tested it, I saw the WORST distortion curve of any amp I'd seen in a long time! It's CRAP!
Nice cabinet but the old components used look like they were lying in the bottom of the designer's toolbox. Or maybe the designer had a pallet load of components to sell?
And yes, this latest amp you've analysed is NOTHING special at all as well. NO WAY would you get 6 usable watts in bridge mode - More like 4 watts, so they LIED about its specs! I have no confidence or trust in these reviewers.
I trust the readings you get from your audio analysis software!
Thank you have a great week !!
thank You for honesty 👏👏
Sorry… don’t want to be disrespectful, but I think we are missing the whole point here. The reason we purchase sound equipment is for enjoyment. We listen through our ears, not measuring equipment. For myself personally, I will always remember the first time I listened to a system that was different. It was a tube integrated amp and it gave me goosebumps. I have never been able to make a co-relation between that phenomenon and measurements. Many hi end companies do this. Final tuning is done … by ear. .. I will always remember when CD’s first came out: PERFECT sound was advertised with charts and figures to prove it. Yeah! Right… Bottom line: we all have different tastes. We all have imperfect hearing. What ever we prefer, gives us satisfaction, within our budget… that is what we should purchase and enjoy.
How do you know what you don't know? Yes, we purchase sound equipment for enjoyment. I'm willing to bet 99% of the population of the planet have never heard a hi end stereo system and have no experience to compare with. Around 1990, I was in the showroom of a hi end audio store and I heard the full glory of a pair of Klipsch Chorus IIs. I blew my wad on the speakers and never could afford anything better than the crappy, low end, 1980s JVC receiver I already had. I knew the potential of those speakers. When one does have listening experience, knowledge, skills and test equipment then listens to a crappy amp, they can then try to diagnose the cause based on symptoms. With a solid base of a design and the above attributes, one can build an exceptional amp that might retail for $10,000. For me, THAT IS the point here that I am NOT missing. Because of Skunkie's effort and generosity, I am currently building an EAR phono preamp, a source selector and a pair of KT120 monos. If Skunkie hadn't built trust, demonstrated her knowledge and skills and stirred a desire in me to finally build a tube amp, I would not likely have ever done so. Now, thanks to Skunkie, I'm finally going to have a system that doesn't suck - and I'm doing it myself. THAT is the point for me. All one has to do is watch the videos and listen to what she says. It's not JUST about the measurements - it's about the sound but the measurements help understand how the components effect the sound and allows for making informed decisions when selecting components.
I agree with you. I made a similar comment as well. The human ear and brain are far more complex than the current test equipment used to measure audio equipment. Measurements do have a purpose, but I don't know of any audio manufacturer who designs and puts on the market equipment solely based on measurements. They also listen to how it sounds and that is the most important element before bringing it to market.
Did you guys both miss my comments on how this sounds? No, you don't listen to measurement devices and graphs, but you are hearing the distortion they measure. And no just because an amp measures well doesn't mean it sounds good, most of the amps I give a thumbs up to have some THD and less than perfect measurements. And yeah a high distortion amp can sound fantastic with a very specific type of music, but they can quickly become a one trick pony when more complex types of music are played on them. If all you listen to is horn jazz or female vocalists, these types of amps sound fantastic to most people.
Have you made a zero feedback amp?
My 300B amp has zero feedback.
Thanks for your honesty and courage to publish your true impressions. Would love to see what some tube-rolling does for your impressions and/or measurements. Thanks again.
Coming soon!
All the best for your partner! 🙏
DIY is king! Thanks for demystifying the hype! Very few truly special designs out there that can't be replicated or beat by DIY designs.
Thank you for this editorial. I've followed the rave reactions by reviewers of Decware amps for several years and always wondered what a real objective review from someone who knows the technical aspects of tube amplifiers (you) think of them. Keep up the honest, objective and educational evaluations of all tube amp subjects/products.
Glad it was helpful!
I'm a Decware owner and gave a thumbs up to this and the last review, first of all measurements don't like, plus everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't know the model you have there, as I only have the circa 3k version with voltage regulators for every audio tube, among other tube amps, and love the little guy for late night listening at low to reasonable volumes, it makes the sound "carry" better at low levels than the larger transmission tube amps (211, GM70). I've rolled almost twenty different input tubes, and while I love the 6N1P-EV these amps come with standard (I wouldn't know of a better bang for the buck choice in the large 6922/ECC88 family of 9-pin preamp tubes), it does produce a tubey-rich, some might say sirupy sound that I don't necessarily associate with the amp itself, nor necessarily strapped Pentodes (Aries Cerat built strapped 813 amps for years that sound anything but syrupy). Although modern Electro Harmonix sound pretty vile to me (that is unless they're NOS from back in the days), if you roll one, you'll probably notice the 6P15P-EV output tubes aren't what makes the amp sound "tubey" at all. Anyways, while I can see distortion figures are going to be high depending on the speaker one uses, it's not like these were the only amps with distortion that high. The famous Kondo Ongaku 211 integrated that everyone looks up to as a reference easily sports 5% specified. The more noticeable problem to me tends to be clipping and compression ahead of time, by which I mean, music is going to sound compressed way before the amp in question starts to clip. In all, careful matching is crucial. Needless to say, I love more neutral-sounding amplifiers as well (not claiming the Decware is the greatest amp out there, nor even in my collection, as much pleasure I as it gives me listening to it), as I like variety, in music as well as in sound. To each their own.
get well soon !!
Bravo skunkie 👍💯👍
Good health to your partner. Much more important than anything else. Really enjoy your sincerity. I’m in the market for the ultimate tube amplifier with either 2a3 or EL34 tubes. The variables involved in choosing an amp make true comparisons near impossible. Can’t vary well compare a 300b tube to a kt150 and since they are not interchangeable on the same amp, and any true comparison fails. So we either have to rely on reviewers (yuk) or on measurements (yuk). Very few showrooms around and even fewer who let you you demo their equipment in your home.
Good Job 👍
I'm a SS person but I love your channel--I've learned a lot. I dabbled in tubes briefly (with a tube pre-amp) but went back to SS. I recently purchased a SS integrated that always gets rave reviews online---but so far, I'm not impressed. I may end up selling it. Keep up the good work and sending good vibes to your partner.
Congratulations, the number of subscriptions exceeds 10,000
Thank you very much!
Sound sound sound. In the end, how does it sound? Best tube matcher? The amplifier. Best gauge of tweaks and adjustments, the sound. But, measuring can be so fun! Thats why i love this hobby. I love your channel and what you do. You inspire me to get my hands in there (one in the pocket!) And make adjustsments and changes . Thank you for your hardwork.
Obviously the sound is it in the end. I have learned high THD amps can sound perfectly fine with very specific types of music. Go outside of those categories and maybe not so much. The gear you are using can actually at some point start choosing what music you listen to for you...
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics I completely agree. I've found that my enjoyment of triode vs UL depends on what I'm listening to. Unfortunately at this stage I have a young child so my tube amps are sequestered to my workshop essentially. Currently using a pioneer SX 9000 that I rebuilt. Before my child could stand up however I had a lot of enjoyment with a jolida and a reisong mt-34 that I modified heavily. Both push pull EL34 amplifiers, with the Chinese one being triode or UL.
You are one of the few reviewers I will believe.
It is such a hurdle run when you're getting fresh into this topic. Tubes in general for me. Hopefully my first 300b is going to be a decent one.
Hope your forum can help if my post finally gets accepted. 😁
❤Love your channel ❤
Thank you so much!
Are there any audio stores for tube amps anymore? the market for vintage records has really grown, there is a need. People of today have never to hear tube audio and rely on reviewers too much. I would drive hundreds of miles to make a purchase if so.
I cant tell you how many amps I returned. Thanks for the video, very good point and needed to have been said.
Most reviewers know little about how the products they review work and simply rely on their ears to judge them. A lot of us are exactly the same. I know I was before I bought my first tube amp and found I had to understand how it works to get it to sound good. It could also be that our ears hear so differently and our brains influence what we hear such that we will never completely agree about how music should sound. And that is OK by me. We can all have different amps operating at varying levels of distortion if that is what makes us happy.
While I like you your channel, approach and honesty ....Like many things, the irony of music and music reproduction is that it is a highly personal and subjective thing!
In fact right from the off music creation, playing, refinement, honing, mixing and recording (a track or performance), to the final masters and reproduction.... the sonic variables and possibilities are almost limitless! ...and as such, everything throughout the process is a compromise of sorts... and open to neverending personal debate! Which is perhaps why opinions often become highly conflicting, controversial and contentious throughout - as people often want or project their personal tastes onto others and hope they might agree or buy into ...or not!
Even band members and producers get into heated discusions and disputes over the sound, tone and sonic presentation etc, etc!
But like food and drink....some people prefer sweet and syrupy things, others more simple, subtle, or smooth, while others prefer savoury, crunchy, sharp and bitter things! ...and most fluctuate all the time, wanting different things on different days 😂
Therefore "subjectively" speaking the only job of a reviewer (or critic) is to have the ability to accurately decern and describe the different favours, textures and characteristics of kit in relation to their own subjective tastes!
....which in the case for hifi reviewers is to describe how different components sound and work together ...so that others can get a general or specific idea of whether a component or a system might be suitable to demo, try or buy...over other options!
Even as a amateur guitarist some guitars and amps can sound subjectively amazing to me, other so so or even crap,... irrespective of brands, cost, reviews and hype! As even playing in different rooms and venues music can sound great or flat and dull.
So personally I'm not so hard, critical or expectant on others, nor place to much value on all these reviewer's and their different personal opinions ...Nor do I decry all the wide range of (decent, smooth, scratchy and crappy) kit out there ....as ironically they might impress, suit and appeal to someone somewhere...as is the nature of things! Especially when considering even our own moods, tastes and hearing can be fickle and change and vary too!
My favourite guitars, amps and hifi gear ...often dont measures well but sure can connect, groove and sing to me!...but perhaps not to my neighbours!😂😂😂😂
So as there is no real perfect setup only choices ...I dont think there is any need to be over picky or judgemental about other people and their views or opinions, nor get upset by herd mentality ...as many people will always believe and bow down to the conflicting views and values of others - even non existent gods and devils 😂😂😂.
Therefore just be honest, and true to yourself, and your own tastes, values and opinions ...as I am sure other reviewers are doing their best to do the same too ....in regards what pleases them, makes them happy or pays the bills!
Any audio gear is a compromise. NONE of the gear I build "measures well" and all of it has at least a couple of % of THD at max power. But there is a big difference between a HiFi amp that make 2% THD and one making 6-8% as far as sounding great listening to a wide variety of music. The high THD one might sound really good with a very specific type of music, but you better have another amp to use for more general use. Been there and done that one personally.
Thank you for these awesome videos. Prayers going out for you and your partner. Will be patiently waiting for the next video.
I guess I'll have to see for myself. I have two Decware cuircuit boards and associated transformers that I plan on bridging to re-populate the guts of a vintage console and get it working again. Just need to get an order in for the rest of the parts and do the build. At least for my use case it won't be for critical listening but for dinner party music.
And there are a lot of types of music that sound perfectly fine and even great with a high THD amp.
That EL34 amp probably has better output transformers from what I'm looking at than the Zen. Also I don't believe the Zen has any negative feedback and that could account for the high distortion. I'm not afraid of a little NFB to clean things up. Just a thought.
Great video..made me laugh too. Most reviewers are just full of chit or ignorant 😂 Ive been fooled before by purchasing an item or 2 that was highly recommended by well known reviewers that were clearly subpar. And the thought of WTF are they hearing crossed my mind.
Hope everything goes well with your loved ones.
We all know these amps are way overpriced for what they are and what the manufacturer claims.. Great vlog.
Hope everything goes well for your partner. Take care of yourself as well.
The manual for the UFO25, which costs almost 3x as much as the UFO but is based on the same basic design, puts peak distortion between 5 and 6 percent THD, complete with a plot. The manual is available for downloading.
I just read it... Guess it's not my measuring equipment like some viewers suggested, but this is by design.
I think your channel is a good balance between the reviewers that really have little understand of the electronics & the very technical reviewers. As they use to say, keep on truck'in! I'm glad I haven't been waiting around on Decware's huge waitlist!
Another good video, all valid points. I have a feeling though that you poked a hornets nest again. Online reviewers? Take what they say with a grain of salt, every day they present the latest and greatest thing in audio. I do hope the surgery goes well for your partner. We’re keeping you in our thoughts.
I'm a true believer that price influences what some reviewers think. If it's $XX,XXX dollars, it has to be good or way better than one costing $XXX, which isn't always the case. Yours and my ears are what I buy things on. You like what you like and can spend XYZ , and that's the best one. Personally, I have recently been enjoying an Oldchen EL34 tube amplifier.
I like your term of your little amplifier being "spunky". Skunkie's Spunky amplifiers!
Spunk - buy a solid state
Not necessarily. My tube amps don't sound anything like a solid state amp. It's not like there is Decware and anything else you might as well just use a class D amp...
You are echoing some of what Bob Carver said that upset the audiophile trade years ago.
I am a retired electronics technician that primarily worked with solid state electronics, but tubes might be interesting as a hobby.
Are there sources of vacuum tube amp kits that are good enough where money isn’t being thrown away? The demise of Heathkit & Dynaco is annoying.
Thank you for the honest reviews. There are so few honest reviews on CZcams. For something to be great, something has to be bad. But on CZcams often everything is the best because it helps generate more likes, views, subs, and more money. One was confronted with it recently, and they were like, yeah, I am here to make money., this is my business, of course I want to be successful. If they give bad reviews, then manufacturers will not send them equipment to review.. CZcams reviewers are freelance salespersons. Unfortunately, as you have pointed out numerous times, people build their identify and worth on what they buy, so when you give a negative review on a product, they take it as a personal attack. People are weird.
That pretty much sums it up. Honestly I never intended for my CZcams channel to make money and I'm sure am not dependent on the little bit it generates. When I add up the money I spend on building stuff for the channel, it's a money loser, but it does help pay for this hobby I enjoy.
Thanks Skunkie I hope things go well for you and your partner. I can remember back in 1980’s when everyone was trying to sell me on solid state guitar amps. I never bought in to the hole solid state guitar thing, but a lot people did. Now I have about 10 deferent Tube guitar amps that I can reference. They all sound good but deferent. You take someone who only had a solid state Audio Amp an through in that little Decware an they say my Lord that sounds good. Then you say, you think that one sounds good listen to this one. lol We don’t know what we don’t know
Analysis and numbers don't lie and thanks for proving it ...👍
Excellent video, I agree 100%, It may be hard for some to hear but it is the truth. I understand that companies need to have profits for their ongoing success but you shouldn't have to spend so much money for a mediocre amplifier. An amplifier with some power, good linearity, and low distortion should be the benchmark. Ultra linear amplifiers and Macintosh with their cathode windings providing feedback are the real benchmark for tube amplifiers. Triode-based amplifiers with little or no feedback might be nice for instrument amplification where some distortion is part of the desired sound but they are not great for accurate reproduction. I would love to see you do a fixed bias, ultra linear, push pull build with a common cathode long tail phase inverter using the negative bias supply as part of the long tail. Perhaps a 12AX7 or 6SL7 as the inverter and perhaps a 12BH7 or 6SN7 as a drive to a set of KT88 or KT120s. I hope all goes well with your partner's surgery.
I've seen/heard so many rave reviews for the Decware. Many thanks for dispelling the myths with actual data, measurements and critical listening. There is a lot of snake oil out there especially in the cables market. I'm glad that there are people like you to straightly give us the facts so that we can make better informed decisions.
Reviewers and criteria these companies look for in their reviewers. Looking over an application to review a product lately. Contained you must have a high viewer count on social media and subscribers. If its a written review they want previous written work/ reviews and links. If approved you have to test their product and submit video of so many minutes if it is written review they want so many words. The reviewer gets to keep the product from my understanding. And in some cases money might be involved. Consumer these days has to look beyond the popular reviews with a million hits and research what they are purchasing. Take care sugar .
That's quid pro quo and poor ethics.
I think a lot of these reviewers know the guys who make the components. And on YT they have to show their faces while they talk about their friends' products. A good number of them have met for sure. On the other hand, they may have met and,....not be friends.
I think a fair conclusion to this is that harmonic distortion seems to mess with people's brain a lot.
What mess with people's brain is the Snake Oil. I can't believe what people pay for these clearly inferior little amps. Especially for a watts that only delivers less than 3 watts per channel...lol
I think your reviews carry more weight for me because you listen and measure. Some people hinge on one or the other but I think both are equally important. I like to hear or read reviews but I also like to see what consumers are saying. The decware surprised me but I also don't care for triode strapped pentodes either. It's a bit of a let down. Keep up the great work.
To be fair to others, this model does not even have many videos or reviews on YT. Different amp models have different attributes and who has ever listened to the graphs. TThese numbered charts should be thrown out the window and considered of less importance our ears dont hear charts innit...
....past couple vids on this Ive agreed and disagreed a little with somethings done and mentioned, either way objective or not cool video as always.
Hope ya well /waves
You absolutely are listening to the distortion an amplifier has. You can't throw that out the window just because it's inconvenient. I've never said anywhere that some distortion in a tube amp is a bad thing, but it's also important to understand how much is there, what the frequency response is and understand that not all types of music sound good with a high THD amplifier when choosing one to purchase.
I think you are correct about where the bar is set. The Decware, Willsenton and Reisong are sold at prices the venders can get for them. They will ride the wave of success as long as they can. Hopefully your work will lead manufacturers to build even better products at lower prices. Pointing out a products flaws should not be a crime.
The truth sucks, sometimes. Honesty and transparency are much appreciated. Never mind the detractors. Truth is the truth.
I can appreciate what you do, but here is my push back. Music is subjective and how it sounds to one person may be completely different to another. The problems with measurements are we don't have the ability to measure everything the human ear hears. So I'm not in the, it has to measure well to be good or sound good camp. To me and many others, music that sounds natural and pleasing, not clinical or devoid of any distortion is best. Have you ever been to a concert and the musicians didn't play a note, but instead handed out the sheet music for everyone to read and determine that it was good? Your ears have to be the judge of what sounds good to you. I used to sell audio back in the early 80's. I have heard tons of gear over the years. I've heard things that measure well and sound bad and things that measure bad and sound good and vice versa. There is no right or wrong. Listen to music with your ears and make your own mind up. Reviewers aren't perfect. But the ones who describe the sound character of the gear properly so people can make a decision about what to buy that meets their needs are best.
See what all you folks pushing back on the measurements are missing is yeah, I listen to this stuff too. And I have seen the pattern on what these measurements also sound like with a wide variety of music. Toss on some horn jazz and these high THD amps sound great. Same with listening the female vocalists like Diana Krall. Try playing some more complex stuff and they trip all over themselves. Forget trying to listen to Rock with them.
And no where have I EVER said that just because an amp measures well it's going to sound good. Amir at ASR would trash talk every amp I have built on this channel. ALL of the amps I build have quite a bit of THD, the good kind IMHO. But when an amp starts making 5%+ THD, it's very limited on the types of music that will sound good on it. If that's all they are used for, yeah I'm sure some people love it. Discounting this information and throwing it out the window because it's inconvenient isn't serving consumers or helping them understand what they are buying.
I also never said this amp is junk, I just said I didn't care for the sound, for the music I listen to.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics You seemed to make a point that subjective reviewers who didn't bother to measure the equipment were giving out false information to potential buyers. I disagree. If the reviewer describes the type of sound you get and explains the importance of matching the speakers to the amplifier, they are doing the potential buyers a service. I also disagree with only one or two styles of music sound good on these amps. I play music and sing, so I feel like I have a somewhat trained ear. I listen to many different genres of music and everything I listen to sounds fine on these type of amps, if the speakers are well matched to the amp. Matching the speakers and amplifiers together is crucial regardless of whether it is a tube amp or solid state amp. Some fine speakers sound bad when paired with the wrong amp and vice versa. I sold audio equipment in the 80's and the key to helping people select the best equipment to meet their needs had zero to do with measurements and 100% to do with letting them listen to equipment playing the music they liked on different combinations of gear and speakers and letting them decide what sounded best to them. I had very few people ever bring stuff back because they didn't like it after they had it in the their home. Now there also is the factor of the room the music is being played in. The room can make a huge difference and I always let people know that it may sound somewhat different at home and how to compensate for a live room or a dead room and so on. I thank you for your reply but I would suggest digging a little deeper into all the facets of putting together a system that works for the listener.
So you chastise me for giving a less than glowing review of this amp because not only did I give a listening review, I showed the technical reasons why I don't care for the sound. I tried several types of music and the problems were not heard on all styles of music, hence my comment. Simply warning people "matching this amp to the right speakers is important" is a joke and one review I saw recommended some close to $40,000 speakers be used with it... These comments sound like you own this amp and are upset seeing what it actually is. I suggest you dig a little deeper into how high THD in a tube amp limits what will sound good on it.
I do not own this amp. But I do own another amp that you criticized for its measurements. Neither the amp nor the speakers I own measure well. But they sound great together. Why is that? Could it be that certain measurements are just as subjective as actually listening to the sound? Why does a Stradivarius violin sound so much better to the virtuoso players than a modern copy? It isn't measurements. There are certain qualities of sound we simply can't measure on equipment that our ears can measure. More power to you if measurements make you happy. I'll continue to listen to music with my ears and help others select audio equipment that sounds good to their ears. Most equipment doesn't sound good or bad. They sound different from each other. I have heard bad equipment that was defective. You have a following that likes what you do. Congratulations!
Measurements don't "make me happy" and most of my amp designs do not measure what technical reviewers would proclaim are good either. And why do you assume I don't listen to music with my ears? I just reviewed two pairs of speakers and chose to keep the pair that measure worse!
As far as some gear like the Reisong A50, it doesn't even start to meet the published power output and unless you have heard what one that has been mod'd sounds like, you have no point of reference. I also have NEVER criticized gear solely on the measurements.
Clearly you are upset with my reviews, which I find is common with some folks when an item they chose to buy isn't reviewed positively. Likely is why 90% of the audiophile reviewers give everything positive reviews, it makes their viewers happy.
I think a LOT of fi-fi reviewers are not worth a grain of salt. There are very few that I listen to.
The way you undertake analysis, construction and testing cannot be faulted.
i am sure by now we all understand how these hifi reviewers on CZcams work. They are not doing these reviews just because they like to, or because it's a hobby. It might have started out that way, but as they get popular, it is all about the compensation that they are able to get from those reviews.
Have you ever noticed all the hifi goodies in the background of their videos. On top of that, have you ever noticed how much stuff they give away to try sucking in more viewership and patronage. Honesty is no longer a criteria as they get popular.
Just check out that dude that calls himself the cheap audio man. He started out as someone that seemed very honest. Now he makes like almost a video a day. Real crappy and biased videos that shows how inexperienced he is with hifi equipment. He is acting like he is doing everyone a favor with his crappy videos and he always seem so unprepared. I will bet that every reviewer that reviewed the Decware, got to keep it for free.
No one who builds amps, builds the amp or evaluates their design without using measurement along the way. Yeah, maybe it’s possible to measure well (by someone) but there’s just no excuse to put out an amp or favorably review an amp that objectively performs so poorly. Yeah, some people may like that sound, but that does not mean everyone else who’s trying to make a decision need to by into voodoo.
I do think if this is how they designed this amp, they should state clearly it's 2.3W @ 6% THD.