Touhou Project: The Photo Game Spin-offs
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- Today I wanted to look at the Touhou Spin-offs that fall under the "Photo Game" grouping. These games play by different rules, but the way they control is quite different. Were those differences a good thing? Find out!
ISC Itemless Footage for Remi, Yatsuhashi and Miko provided by: Valivanvan
Replay Glitch Footage from: / hakanaiblue
Double Spoiler Blogpost: kourindou.exblog.jp/12243476/
00:00 Intro
00:32 StB
05:22 DS
08:28 ISC
12:54 VD
Support me on Patreon: / aspreyfm
Thumbnail by: / rakkidei
Overlay by: / 24hrcallcentre
My Twitter: / aspreyfm
Twitch: / aspreyfm
TwitchVODs: / aspreyarchive - Hry
A lotta people hate violet detector but the few original tracks zun made for the soundtrack are some of my favourites from the whole series... Great video asprey!
All of the [original] songs in VD are great!
I wish Old Adam Bar & Naturalis Swallostons got remixes, but Concealed Four Seasons & Spring Dream have no reason to be here.
To be honst, Okina has no reason to be in VD's story at all..
@@clockworkcake8057 hidden god things ig
also i actually kinda really liked violet detector (except for teleport)
the fact that some spells are just remixes dont really bother me, and in the nightmare week, the double bosses i actually really like too (except mamizou, her humans and 450 degree rotating eagles can go die), i think it gives unique attacks that you really have to think about how to dodge them
AAAAH NIGHTMARE DIARYYY SLAPS SO HARD!!! TURN UP!!!
@@clockworkcake8057 To be fair all the 3 other scene games also reuse soundtrack from previous games. StB reuses Wind God Girl, DS reuses Aya's MoF theme and ISC reuses multiple DDC boss themes.
In StB that was one theme, being Aya's which fits with the game. Same with DS, though i wish Hatate got her own theme.
ISC is fair, but that game has alot of orignal tracks, with its sountrack not being half of reused.
VD's sountrack is half reused content.
11:50 oh no that better not be something susp- NO WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOOO
11:54
either my mind is tainted, or your doing a little funni sussy
11:50 after that one meme I always go out of my way to draw among us with her trail.
It helps too, since it aligns with the primary strategy for that one.
11:54 I was thinking this was a great game, now you ruined it and I'll never play it.
Love the among us at 11:55
Hey, I hate the teleport too, but I won't let you explain it poorly.
Activation is actually different: simply double tap focus to activate. While holding the second tap, input a direction to perform the teleport.
Not as bad, but it still sucks.
My god, when playing that game I would double tap, then press a direction. I didn't know you had to hold the focus. I 100%'ed this game with a teleport that only worked 50% of the time.
11:53
Oh my god
You brilliant scoundrel
11:54 Amogus
I was happy to have not noticed it and you've ruined it.
sus
When the rokurokubi is sus
i can't escape it
SUS
personally i’ve never been too much of a fan of these but it makes you play the game different even though you’re fighting familiar attacks so that’s cool
It's true! Also, it learns you to perseverate, make your memory work and learn you some dodging skills :)
these games are also brutal as hell even for veterans
Out of those the only one I personally like is ISC, but funnily enough it is my favorite Touhou ever
I love going through it trying to get itemless, despite the fact that I have lost my save like 5 times already
Edit: I also despise Violet Detector's teleport, the worst idea ever to make it work like that
good luck on itemless! it's a journey to remember for sure.
Remember that Yoshika spellcard?
Zombie Sign ~ Icicle Fall
I've always had a soft spot for StB, and I'm not sure why. maybe it's the older-game aesthetic and soundfont but it hits just right.
ISC is still my favorite though, c'mon - there's no competition!
That Picture of Yours...I Saw That Blue Circle Thing in Touhou Windows Games And Believe me This Big Bullet Have The Smallest Hitbox in Touhou History But it Will Confuse You if You try to Dodge Between 2 Big Bullets!!
Shoot the bullet was too hard for my skill level, but double spoiler's vertical camera is so useful I was able to finish the sequel and having fun with it, and impossible spell card is super fun
Your rant on violet detector is great ahahah and I tried it a lil bit but I had to stop for other reasons, but I want to get a patch for it so I can use the teleport button on the c button to fix that setup urgh. Or I'll use the glitch
please tell how enjoyable (or unjoyable) the game becomes with the C button patch, I'm quite curious to see how much it actually changes the experience !
@@YoannBB I mean, seeing how the c button is implemented in ISC, th16 and th18, it should work at least better. Maybe not that great since teleporting in this game genre definitely would still feel wonky, but even just being able to trigger it when you want easily should help tons
11:55
AM. I. GOING. INSANE?!
11:48 A M O N G U S ! ! !
Pros of playing violet detector: you get to hear some absolute banger music (nighmare diary is top tier).
Cons of playing violet detector: playing violet detector.
Pros: Sumireko!
Cons: Sumireko..
@@clockworkcake8057 That's all pros
her writing (atleast in the ENG patch) isnt.. great
but sumireko is awesome
I feel the need to mention one thing about Violet Detector. Throughout the adventure you play as Sumireko Usami.
But (and this is where spoilers come into play so read at your own risk.), once you reach a specific point in the game Doremy Sweet shows up and after a few stages it's revealed that you were playing as the Sumireko Usami from the dream world the whole time while the real Sumireko was trying to stop her Dreamy counterpart and take her body back and eventually she does after Okina takes back the powers she gave to Dreamy Sumireko and the player takes control of the real Sumireko for the final stage, *without* the main abilities you had during the adventure like Bullet Cancel and Death Cancel.
Just kinda feels weird knowing that first time players of Violet Detector are playing as the Dream World Sumireko Usami instead of the real deal.
NGL I liked violet detector, the teleport was annoying at first but even forced teleport stages can be optimized to limit/remove the need for teleporting.
I found that using the teleport feels a lot smoother if you treat its input as a windup, and time when you use it accordingly. Coming up with strategies that use all the tools Violet Detector gives you is really satisfying.
11:49 AMOGUS
Honestly I wouldn't mind VD's teleport feature at all if it wasn't for how complex it is to use it. Nightmare week is a whole nother story though...
just map it to the C button :)
Ive never gotten to nightmare diary, but it sounds.. bad
Damn I should've thought of that sooner. Thanks for the tip.
The photo games are honestly a really interesting take on bullet hell.
However, yeah, as ZUN's comment said, these are the kind of games you should play only when you've got a lot of experience under your belt. I didn't play StB and DS until 3 years after I started playing Touhou. (So like, end of 2020.)
Shoot the Bullet is nice, although sometimes I hesitate to call it easier than Double Spoiler, and that's mainly because a lot of scenes late-game are just luck-based, with you just hoping the boss is nice to you on that attempt. Not just on stuff like Seamless Ceiling of Kinkaku-ji. Tongue of Wolf is also super nasty, for example.
Although that's not to say DS doesn't have some of that BS either. (Intentional slight rhyme, yes)
Also, Hatate's differences, aside from starting in portrait mode, are that her viewfinder can barely move at all, so she's basically exclusively close-range, and it's also a bit narrower, but it does _always_ focus on the boss. She charges faster in return, however, and can fill up more of her camera with bullet cancels. (Aya gets around 30-35% on a successful photo, whereas Hatate gets around 50%.) This positive usually outweighs the negatives, and makes many scenes much easier for her. Until you get to Orb of the Five-Clawed Dragon and question life...
Also, am I the only one who's never had trouble with the viewfinder stuff? (With Aya, it only focuses on the boss when you press and/or hold Shift. Not focusing makes the viewfinder go in the direction that Aya is going in. It's simple, and yet people still struggle with it, which makes it really hard for me to help people having trouble when it's not even the spells they're not good at, but the basic mechanics...)
Impossible Spell Card is a really neat game, and the wide array of options is cool.
Personally, I've done 60 out of 75 scenes in the game item-less. I don't think I'll ever get all of them. Not without losing my sanity, anyway. Although I love the prospect of meeting ZUN and telling him that I've become the Ultimate Cheating Life Form. (I guess the irony makes sense, considering this IS Seija we're talking about... That or it's because you did so well your existence is cheating. lol)
Also, you start with 3 items actually, it's just that you have the Nimble Fabric automatically when you first start the game and go into 1-1, and then you get the Gap-Folding Umbrella and the Tengu's Toy Camera after it's done.
Violet Detector? More like Violent Disease.
I 100%ed this game and never looked back.
In terms of photo games, I also enjoy the fangame Tri Focuser ~ Outside the Traditional World.
It's really fun (to me, at least), and I'd say easier than both StB and DS.
MegamanOmega covered it on his channel, if you're interested. (I also covered it myself, but I won't explicitly tell you to go to my channel. I'm not that much of a sell-out. [Yes, I'm aware of reverse psychology... Not my fault...])
I like how the number for impossible spell card is "14.3" finally a decimal that isn't ".5"
it happens first in hisoutensoku and fairy wars too
StB: Liked it. Really solid and cool experience. Sadly, too hard for my skill back when I played it.
DS: I was able to clear everything and unlocking Hatate gave a nice excuse for replaying it. My fav among these four.
ISC: Either extremely easy (with cheat items) or insanely difficult (itemless). Cleared everything and never played it again.
VD: Only official game I haven't played and I intend to keep it that way, lmao
SPINOFF LORE!! SPINOFF LORE!!
11:49 sus
ISC was the first touhou game that released after i joined the fandom, so i have good memories of being part of those who discovered the suffering of No Items and Remilia.
I love these spin-offs with the exception of VD, but i want to mention something that isn't touched in this video, which is the scoring.
Not only are StB and DS filled with creative patterns that make use of its unique mechanics, but the scoring system is also really strict. I'm not going to go full detail, but the general idea is getting lots of bullets, the photo being centered, you appearing in the photo, taking nice shots (boss circle thing), risk shots (you being close to a bullet), and in DS the angle is also important, with horizontal shots having a higher multiplier.
BTW, Hatate is the one who scores higher in DS, so i tend to see her more as the scoring character. :)
There are a lot of little quirks on how to use and move the camera, like how focusing immediately makes you point towards the boss, even if the camera is in the opposite direction (so, for example, you can run towards the boss and, before shooting, you focus to not miss due to annoying angles); or how the camera is closer or further from you depending on if you're focusing, unfocusing, or holding shift+z (which is important for centering your camera).
And just a little tip for those who want to play normally: when you're in shot mode (when time slows down) and the boss is in the shot area, the rectangle will change its color, and you'll hear a particular sound effect. This is extremely useful when you're taking shots from far away, since it helps you know when it will count as a valid photo and when it won't. :)
11:55 amogus
11:48 sus
11:53 Sussy sign "I like among us"
11:55 I LAUGHED SO HARD I HAD TO REPLAY THAT (my humor is absolutely broken)
14:38 And I took that personally.
Also Violet Detector BGM is my favorite.
ISC is one of my favourite touhou game
I liked the cheat item system
everyone hates violet detector but
its my first photo game..
and the main reason i like sumireko..
the game is broken as hell but,, i love the story
I loved the slight sense of mystery, unease and twist with the story.
Plus, it's one of the only 2 stage based side games I cleared to all stage completion (other being ISC).
(I unlocked Hatate at least)
The premise of her posting on a social media channel (complete with tags) made me chuckle.
Some of the different tags you could get for each photo also made me chuckle.
Especially "#MYEYESSSSS" for when the additive colours of the bullets would be absurdly high.
Nightmare week was...questionable, though the cards actually _did_ have various variables (like fire rates) tweaked for each pair.
I speedran Violet Detector (old second, current third place time is on my channel xd). It is an abysmal game only barely salvaged when you put in way too much time for a niche category.
The game also literally broke the Esc+R quick restart hotkey, and broke it so badly that it can be abused to literally respawn after dying.
For those who are wanting a more difficult and more interesting version of VD, there's a new mod called VDR on thcrap by Some Guy in Paradise. Fair warning that it is quite difficult and patterns require understanding of the game's mechanics to solve, but it is infinitely superior to the recycled trash that the base game is.
Surprisingly, the mechanic for VD's teleport is the same as the Dodge Roll in "Enter The Gungeon" point in one of 8 directions, hit a button (coincidentally, i always double tap), and jump. So it's weird it ends up being so frustrating in VD..
the mechanic feels downright fun in Gungeon so idk. It's just an incredibly weird realization I had while playing Enter The Gungeon with my sister a bit ago.
(Though because of the way Gungeon plays you get the illusion you can control your dodge roll's direction more than you actually can. You also forget you only walk in one speed and get the illusion you can adjust distance by moving a different speed. But neither of those things is possible )
Maybe it's because Gungeon gives you an insane amount of crap to use it feels less frustrating? But VD instant retry, so it feels like that part can balance out their respective frustrations..?
It could be the fact that focus in Touhou gives more speed options so when you feel like it's jumping blind.
Wait that might actually be it.
The reason might be focus speed.
Because you can move at 2 different speeds it naturally feels like you should be able to jump at least 2 different distances..!
But VD can't do that because you need to use the double tap focus button to do it.!
So when you jump, without the reassurance of focus it naturally feels absolutely terrifying..!
Because it's downright weird to not have the option to have more control in Touhou
Maybe ZUN even noticed this and decided something along the lines of: " if they need to double tap focus, they'll only go into the jump at one speed, which would feel far more natural if the distance is fixed. which totally solves all the weirdness I'm feeling while testing this game."
(Obviously forgetting that repeatedly exposing himself to this mechanic again and again would make it feel natural whether it was bad or not)
[This reasoning can be extended to explain his turbulent history with creating and balancing shot types]
Anyway Teleporting
It doesn't work for possibly the simple reason of forcing someone to go fast into a jump tapping the thing that traditionally slows them down is terrifying.
Omg , how am I thinking of this now from random typing.?!?
It's a weird thing to compare it to but eh, it just popped into my head.
WOOOOO
was waiting for this
Late, so I don't know if this'll get seen, but this video made me finally try out my first Touhou spin off, Impossible Spell Card. Before this video, I knew nothing about it, other than that it does in fact exist. The concept of using cheat items to survive against pretty much impossible spell cards sounded so cool so I went and bought it and I'm glad I did.
In my top 3 favorite CZcamsrs.
Keep up the good work. Just so good.
I found your channel when I still didn't really know that much about touhou.
And I wasn't sure if I should play touhou.
But you convinced me to give it a trying.
And we'll the was a great decision. So thank you very much.
My main problem with this side-series is that there's no difficulty selection. It would really benefit from an easier one for accessibility(and a lot less frustration). It can still be harder than the main games' Easy/Normals, though, for the sake of the gameplay style.
StB is my favorite of the bunch, the first i've played and the one with the best soundtrack
DS was cool ig
ISC was the easiest with the worst soundtrack
VD was ok ig
I don't really think a lot of any except StB but i love the photo games
shooting comments at the algorithm to graze
thank you so much
11:50 GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD
glad to know i started with the "best" touhou game (violet detector)
These spin offs are fun, even violet detector for what it’s worth and numerous flaws.
My favorite one is Impossible Spell Card for sure, but I do like Shoot the Bullet as a close second.
On the topic of violet detector, I remember watching a spinoff mod stream vod by Asprey FM that actually did a remixed cast and varied boss patterns that actually made the game interesting.
Even the difficulty at the end made it feel like the endgame the official Violet Detector was lacking. Though be warned that said endgame is absolutely brutal without tons of practice and gameplay mastery.
For anyone wanting to try the mod, the game mod is called Violaceous Dream Retrogenesis.
I played Shoot the Bullet first, it was really difficult and I liked a lot. Then I saw your vods of Violet Detector and I tried to play it myself... Well, it was a nightmare xD
The only thing I liked about Violet Detector is the soundtrack, Nightmare Diary is one of my favorites songs
Oooh Yess
Impossible Spell Card is probably my favourite bullet hell game, it's so fun and way less frustrating then having to bewt a whole game in one go
lunatic dreamer fucking slaps, and is the only real justification for vd's existance
Watching Chen open her scene by flying at Aya at full speed for a cheap shot will never not be funny to me
I'm into touhou mostly for the music since I don't have a computer that is precisely suitable for gaming, and oh my god hearing that Violet Detector isn't that good is heartbreaking! The music for it is so good that I was expecting the gameplay to be just as stellar. What a shame.
Great video though!!
VD was my 3rd touhou game that I got. I cleared all senes after I got all non-decimal touhou games and cleared all of the EX stages, except for TD and LoLK, which took me over 3 years to clear all senes. Over all, I love VD, I love the teleporting system. But I don’t prefer playing this game first, it’s a “nightmare”.
By the way, VD’s music are fantastic.
First of all, I wouldn't call them "Photo Games". They're more of a "Scene Games" imo. Although ISC has a camera, it's more accurate to call them that way.
Shoot the Bullet
I never really tried this game until later on in my touhou career, along with Double Spoiler. What I do have to say is despite being a really challenging game, it's pretty fun. Trying to figure out the best way to clear while getting a decent score. Btw I haven't completed this game yet and I'm only halfway through it. I will get back to it if I feel like it.
Double Spoiler
I don't have much experience here since I mostly played StB more, it still feels like it would be as fun as the first one, and the twist in the mechanic is interesting. I will start playing this again once I beat StB.
Impossible Spell Card
Honestly my favorite game in the spin-off category (except GFW but we don't talk about it here). It is insanely fun to play and gives you different options to beat the scenes. In the case of no items, I recently did it last year, and it's absolutely satisfying. Despite spending almost 3k attempts in 5-2 and over 5k attempts in 10-4 (yes, because spent about 3k without knowing the actual strat), it's still fun in the end. I do recommend doing this in your free time but I advice you to not force yourself in doing everything if you lack the skill. I'd say go for the hardest ones only if you're on Lunatic/LNB+ level of skill.
11:55 And you really have to do it, did you?
Violet Detector. Oh boy, the memes. Definitely considered to be one of, if not, the worst game in the series (it still has some competition with SoEW). Although i dont find most of the mechanics that bad, the teleport is honestly terrible. Like why not use C instead of double tapping shift? For the patterns, they're not that bad, just boring, and recycled. Speaking of recycled, the music are also recycled iirc. Although it is absolutely terrible to play, it's a good thing that it's easier than StB and DS. It doesn't take that much skill compared to those games but it's just really annoying to play no matter the skill. It's so bad that it got to a point where there's a full on remake of this game, which a lot of people seem to actually like. I haven't played it yet but I look forward to it.
What's so bad about SoEW?
Even aside from what's so bad about it it's also at near the opposite end of the series timewise so it makes sense it wouldn't be as good as later entries, but VD being much later would make it worse given context imo.
Btw what's that remake?
@@shupasopni SoEW is one of the worst in the series, but its not too bad by itself, considering on how old the game is. It has its issues like some bosses have quite unfair attacks, but its actually kinda fun in some parts imo.
About the VD remake, there's a patch that mostly changes the game, such as the spell cards are completely replaced. It doesn't fix the teleportation issue but there's another patch that does exactly that. Most people like it way more than actual VD, but i did hear a few mentions that the third week is not that great. I think its in thcrap if you want to try it out.
@@Skywalker2016GD That's a fair opinion. I would say I find TH2 a good first game and enjoy it well enough.
Oh alright cool. So it's more like a couple patches rather than a remake? Interesting. Too bad for me I find thcrap complicated to figure out.
I did find out there's an actual remake apparently, but it looks like it only has a demo, and is a sequel storywise. It's called comatose camera and aims to improve VD mechanically as well.
My first game was DS, since that was the first game that released when I started the game. I loved it and played StB after beating it and was disappointed the rest of Touhou wasn't like that :(
I pray for the people who started playing the Touhou series with Double Spoiler
So, ISC is basically going for a No Item Run in a hard Dokkan Battle event
11:55 IS THAT AMONG US IN TOUHOU!?
One very noticable difference not mentioned about DS is that your photos can take on any angle (based on your positioning relative to the boss), whereas in StB it's always the same straight angle. This completely changes how you score this game.
The gameplay differences with Hatate is that her photo frame got less height and more width but overall smaller photo dimensions, her camera charges much faster and also starts at a higher charge% after taking a photo of the boss or a defensive photo, her camera is alot less mobile when activating the photo frame but also shrinks much less, Hatate's camera always follows the boss regardless of whether you're moving in focused, unfocused or charge speed.
I'd say the difficulty in DS goes down overall once you reach the Extra scenes and especially the SP scenes. The SP scenes overall feel rushed/unfinished. Hatate also does make most of the scenes easier, due to her very fast charge, despite some exceptions. The one I mostly remember being harder with her is 10-4.
I also think this video would've been more appropiate to label these games as "scene games". ISC as you mentioned is not a photogame. The one camera weapon being just one of many items you can pick.
Honestly surprised to see you roast on VD, but yes it's offensively bad. My one experience made me think it was a joke. Perhaps not even made by ZUN. I'm pretty concerned the new upcoming game will suffer the same fate, judging by early screenshots.
Aya is basically you trying to swat a fly that has the ability to take pictures.
In VD I definitely activated teleport more often on accident than on purpose. It's so bad.
finally they get some love
It should be noted that for _Violet Detector,_ there is a mod that remaps the teleport ability to its own button.
It's definitely more bearable that way. Though why it wasn't like that in the first place is honestly beyond me.
11:55 you little -
100th black market was everything u hated about violet detector cranked up to 11 lol
So when's Megumu getting her own Photo Game-
There's a mod for Violet Detector that puts the teleport on a separate button.
double spoiler was almost my first touhou game
damn, I finished Violet Detector and really enjoyed it, didn't find it very hard, and thought it was a well-liked game
10:55: *A M O G U S* (Seija Kijin is the impostor!)
bro really used a boss trail to draw amogus
Impossible Spellcard makes me think... Everyone really does fight fairly in the main games huh? Maybe except Junko or something, her spellcards just aims to kill you.
Aya was an epic photographer
I Don't Know I Never Played Touhou Photo Games!!
touhou has infinite content XD
thanks for covering it all!
Maybe i love this spin off touhou series, especially like this one (beside touhou spin off fighting series)
I mean like this
I love hardcore mode or something more challenging like we don't see in any touhou game series (beside there lunatic or extra mode maybe for me is quite challenging but not like this one)
& To be honest i play DS (double spoiler or whatever that name sorry i forgot 🙃😅) surprisingly is quite good challenging game for me especially i want to practice going to lunatic or extra mode, maybe there think i practice on game touhou series (like th 6,7,or 8 on practice)
The answer is no i always practice on DS, yep literally when first time i play this game is so hard but then i now getting already used to it + maybe this is my favorite touhou spin off photo game series.
Another touhou spin off photo game series like StB,ISC,and VD maybe i should try that game too.
Anyway DS is my favorite awesome challenging touhou spin off photo game
11:55 amogus? amogus.
Can you talk about Cirnos game Fairy Wars? Nice video tho
O_O
VD is the only one I’ve played…
Even if VD was not the best spin-off, it still is the only one I have finished. Others just did not resonate with me, and I played them before VD even came out
Say what you want about Violet Detector, but Nightmare Diary is one of the best tracks ZUN's ever made
Did ypu draw an among us with sekibankis neck?
Aya and hante choking each other because of the new Pokémon snap
Ayayay
Hatate!!!
Pokemon Snap: Touhou edition.
birb
Yeah, with 18.5 announced, probably should've waited a bit more before making this video :/
ඞ
I personally found Impossible Spell Card's patterns extremely boring, especially compared to StB and DS's, which I have both 100% completed, so I stopped playing
At least I got 5-2 without items tho
Man creates entire 20 minute video just to complain about character from Touhou Usami Sumireko
Your VD complaints are a skill issue
Maybe zun had a skill issue making the game
Do you see those patterns? They just slightly modified from what the characters already have
She's not taking pictures "for reasons". She has a newspaper and wants stories.
11:54
AMOGUS
11:51 amogus
11:55 AMOGUS