BMW DCT SWAP With Single Mass Flywheel: What's it like?
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2021
- BMW DCT SWAP With Single Mass Flywheel: Whats it like?
The Mfactory single mass flywheel was one of the items i was a bit worried about with the DCT swap. I had read mixed reviews about the noise they generate, even heard of a few people pulling them out. So this is a video on how the car drives with the swapped DCT and Mfactory flyhweel.
#n54dct #mfactory #smfw
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Team N54 for Life!!
Well done!, must be a good feeling to have it all back together and working how it should.👍
When I did the XHP stage 3 flash on my ZF8 for the M135i, it keeps the revs up a bit more. Previously it would often go into 8th at 65km/h @ 1150rpm, now it wont go into 8th until about 80km/h @ 1400rpm. It also holds gears longer during light acceleration and reduces gear hunting. I also found that the torque converter locks quicker in drive mode too.
Before you put the 26PSI map on the car check your reported torque from the map, that's the reason a lot of people say to avoid the JB4 on a DCT car. Your reported torque needs to be accurate, too little and you'll get increased wear and maybe slip. Also good to not over report as the shifts are so much better when the reported torque is accurate.
Jsr is on it!
Sounds exactly like mine (mines a manual 6 speed with lightweight VVT racing flywheel)
My hybrid turbos are on oh my word what a difference 🙏🏻
Keep up the fantastic work your channels the best
Very nice!
Great content!! I found the dct the same initially. but after driving a bit you will find the mode that suits your mood...that's the awsome thing about it. I have xph stage 3..calm in normal and aggressive in max sports setting. Leave the button off and shift gear over to sport is the perfect blend (n55 ps2 310 rwkw)
only negative..Consistent good launches are a distant memory 😃good work again!
I have no doubts about the launches being a pain from here on in.
Good to hear you're loving it mate!! Awesome content as always 👍
Thank you sir! I need to quiz about your next step!
So I’ve had my late 2009 dct 335i for 4 months now and you mean to tell me I have bloody launch control 🤣🤣 today’s going to be a good day!!!
Box controller when not in sport mode is shifting for maximum fuel economy, always.
Aftermarket tune will solve it. Alternatively if you can modify the sport behaviour with the levels the most aggressive will avoid shifting into 7th.
M50d rolls round in 8th at 60 in economy and 5th in sport +
So Much work, all paid off 👍🏻 nice work Andrew
Thanks a ton!
I'm finally picking up my DCT this week, I will be gathering parts for a swap next winter. 2011 335IS DCT 100,000km in Canada goes for $1700cdn.
Great work, I will be doing the same swap in the near future to my 2007 E90 track car. I will be using this and other threads as reference, and I will probably hit you up at some point.
I'm finding these video very helpful in giving me some insight as to the involvement. Hardest thing will be finding an affordable donor, since Covid has jacked up the prices of everything in Canada.
Cheers
M
Good luck man. Yeah finding the right donor is key to making it affordable.
Great video as always glad to see everything is working out so far. Is your steering wheel crooked?
I had to put headphones in and crank the volume to hear anything to do with the flywheel. Could be more noticeable in person but from here seems pretty liveable.
Know what you mean regarding the D Mode economy shifting. It makes the car feel unpowered and sluggish. I stick mine into S Mode once it’s warmed up a bit and it sorts it right out. I tend to prefer that over Sport button because the throttle is more relaxed for around town driving.
You definitely seem to be enjoying it! “One, two, three” on the paddles haha.
My issue with DCT has only ever been at low speed maneuvering and taking off on wet grass, when moving I found it fine, I drove a golf DCT with a tune on it and it felt like if it was manual, rev it up and dump the clutch hated it. I chose an auto in mt 135I and I've just done a stage 3 xhp and love it
Early shifting is exactly what my DCT does in comfort mode (Z4 35IS). In sport it'll shift with less clutch slip, much faster and in sport+ you get the fastest gear changes. In sport+ it'll keep the revs much higher similar to having the DCT in sport mode. Most of this is customisable in XHP. Early shifting is probably meant to keep fuel consumption down. The behavior of your DCT is absolutely correct.
I currently have XHP stage 2 on the DCT as I find stage 3 much too violent. There's 235000km on the car and the engine and DCT still feel like new. No noises that shouldn't be there or stand out at all. Shifting points (revs) can be customised.
Recently the weld of the ring (or pinion, I'm not an expert) broke off in the diff. I replaced the diff with a OS Giken super lock. Excellent piece of kit! My only worry is the drive shaft and axles now.
The only downside of the DCT I can think of is that it sometimes needs a bit of thinking time. That combined with the low revs in comfort mode (always highest gear possible) means no boost. Practically it means you need to put your foot down in time long before you start a quick overtaking. After years of driving this car it still causes sweaty handpalms sometimes.
Obviously this can all be avoided by a manual (or 2, 3..) downshift before overtaking. Basically the automation of the manual gearbox is excellent most of the time but it is not perfect! Not even with XHP.
Thanks for the detailed comment appreciate all that info dude. Can’t wait to try xHP
DCT is inherently slower at multiple downshifts like dropping 2-3 gears to make a pass on the highway... it needs to make those 2-3 shifts it can't just drop from 6th to 3rd like a regular auto or a manual. This is really the only scenario where youll see this delay.
Can't get enough of that DCT gearbox, your an example to car tinkerers Andrew👌
Thanks man. It’s all learning.
Me encantan tus videos!!!
i coudnt hear the m factory flywheel, awesome shifts, great work !
With XHP you can adjust how long each gear will ride out in auto mode or with sports button pressed or s mode you can adjust everything so you can have it not switch to 7th so early in any mode you want
you can tune all of these things with xhp as you know. My N54 with the zf6hp shifts into 6th gear at 40MPH. just tune all of those issues away!!! Great Job Man!!!!
Thats the plan, well part of it anyway
Nice!! Hey what max power can the DCT handle? I know the clutches can be upgraded. Also, you mentioned a “Group Chat” for folks, where is that?
@@garygrenier Hey Gary, the DCT "should" handle 1000nm with the latest xHP update. The telegram group chat is for the top level zero to 60 members the "ZeroTo60 G's". Its a direct link to my phone for direct support help and general chit chat.
good job with the swap its been an impressive ride. what are the plans to get an lsd back on it? go m3 diff or try and make the mfactory one work? also get xhp on it as well and fkn SEND it
Creep disabled on my 335is works like half the time and stage 3xhp is really harsh on the drivetrain especially during down shifts with everything off
Can drive mine to compare feel if you want. Definitely prefer the creep disabled, the xhp flash makes driveability in D mode heaps better, auto blips on downshift and can set clutch packs to performance or burnout mode, night and day difference. One thing though in Sport mode the shifts are violent and unsettle the car a bit but adding some torque reduction helped all round
Good to know. Good to know.
You can set launch control rpm using the indicator stalk wheel.
Great video! Can’t wait for the next one.
I will check, but i am fairly sure only the true m cars can do that.
@@ZeroTo60Tube Whoops. My bad, I think you’re correct. Just checked the manuals and there is a definite difference between the M3 and the 335i.
Maybe worth a try anyway. Apparently it’s the cruise control stalk. Push away for increase in rpm, pull towards you for decrease.
M cars only for the stalk selection they also get variable sport settings. Can adjust launch control rpm in xhp for these ones
I've got a 335is with a DCT at about 83,000 miles. Mine behaves the same but it doesn't really feel like the car is laboring or the revs are too low. I'd be interested if it changes the more km you put on it. Great stuff!
I think it’s my exhaust. It’s just droney under 2000rpm which probably amplifies it all.
What exhaust is on it? I have the stock tuned 335is all the way
@@maxcuevas1359 Its a milltek cat back system. Pretty quiet bit very very deep note. Like you cant really hear it driving but on cold start it vibrates the whole house.
If you flash the 135i DCT software onto it, your launch control will drop to 3500 rpm, the "creep" at idle will all but disappear (will be more like a 6at), the gear changes will be better, and the delay going from N to D (or R) will reduce. Made my DCT 335i much nicer to drive.
Love this series mate. Great information provided. I feel like too often people don't care or talk about OEM levels of driveability. It IS possible to increase performance of a car and retain factory levels of NVH and driveability. But so often people just seem to put it in the too hard basket. I'm investigating putting one of these DCT's behind a 2JZ. Do you know what a typical price for these is in Australia?
I know you will need the HTG controller and hours of tuning. Probabaly going to be $8000-$10000 in parts and then tuning is like how long is a piece of string.
@@ZeroTo60Tube Sorry, I was specifically asking about the trans cost alone. Whifbitz make a conversion kit for everything else. From what I can tell the transmissions cost ~$4-5k here
@@mr.a5147 Sorry dude, they used to be around $3000-$4500, however they are sneaking up in price of late. I havent seen one for ages. ebay.com.au is the place to keep an eye on.
I’d say the biggest benefit of the xhp is the increased line pressure to keep your stock clutch life longer! Especially since you said it’s at 190k’s bet you the m factory flywheel helps the clutches too since there is less mass?
That’s the main reason I want xHP. You could also be right about single mass flywheel.
It would be interesting to compare ignition timing logs.
The 6AT has huge timing changes (like 30deg) during a shift for torque reduction ;)
From what I have seen, my logs look similar. I never had the 30deg drops on the jsr 6at tune tho. He’s a wizard with shifts on the autos
My 6mt runs 30+ degrees of timing if I’m just cruising, but then obviously comes way down under boost. That’s fairly normal.
I have the same setup (dct, smf) and I haven’t noticed any noise from the smf. Also the minimum LC rpm with xhp is 2500.
Ohhhhh interesting about the 2500rpm launch. My cars gonna love that lol. Haha
yes get xhp id love to see a tutorial of it on a dct
1:40 - no the mainshaft isn't spinning in neutral else you would be smelling the grass in front of you now :P
Yes the noise is deft from the gearbox.
BTW your place looks more and more like my area......plenty of doublecab 4WD -_-, tons of 'soft' SUVs -_-......
I think if you raise idle to 850 chatter will be minimal if any
Great job! Next up n54 8hp swap? So that I could choose which way to go 😅
On it!
@@ZeroTo60Tube there are some guys Poland called Turbo Lamik who are now selling ZF8HP swap kits for around 3.000 EUR. Might want to check it out :)
What ZB number You are using? Try Z4 35is ZB 8647893 before xhp because it is free :)
I actually only drive in auto+sport button, in the city. Pure auto, only on the highway. Regards Nico.
I know it's an old video, but I'm planning on the DCT swap on my e39 540i, and I ditched the DMF for a 15.7lb/7.1Kg SMF from TTV Racing, I should be able to retain my flywheel correct?
N54 community needs a “torque by gear” tune/setting rather than boost by gear.
Is there an inbuilt method of detecting engine torque?
@@Adam-eo5ff There is in MHD. In the graph it reflects a Newton meter of torque rather than foot pound. So I’m pretty sure there is a way, but nothing that has been mentioned in videos other than boost by gear.
@@SWATMM I think this is actually just a scale with a maximum torque level and a gauge that adjusts based on throttle position.
What exhaust you have on ?
Amigo tengo un problema con mi transmisión DKG... Y en mi país nadie me ha podido ayudar, ¿Crees que te pueda hacer una pequeña consulta? De antemano muchas gracias.
I always hit Sport on my DCT. Gear selection seems more sensible.
Couldn’t agree more with that. Do you run xHP by any chance?
I do the same sport button on when in d mode. Doesn't seem to jump into 7 until on the highway and I'm stock dct.
Longer vids. 👍🏻
Love it. What's the go for the mfactory LSD? Is it for sale?
Sold
Enjoying the video - but what have I missed regarding your diff? Why do you have a open diff now? What video do I need to watch?
The old diff is not compatible with the dct. So it’s out.
@@ZeroTo60Tube so what is compatible? How come yours wasn’t?
@@lukeviewservice Diff ratio, the auto is a 3.46 vs 2.56 ( i think) in the DCT. Then the DCT diff is a welded diff gear, so i cant swap the the centre.
sweet, so i guess its now ready for roll racing on the 17th??!! :)
50/50 at the moment. It’s running about 450-475hp right now. Need to make sure it’s on up at 26psi yet.
I wondered why my launch control stopped working. I didn't realise that disabling the kick down would also disable it!!
I was so lucky I found someone on a forum that just made a brief comment about the kick down and I was like ahhh ha!
@@ZeroTo60Tube I'll be trying it later! 😂 excited to see the xhp video. Been debating for ages whether to do it on mine. Good work as always!
Your car idles at almost 1k rpm when stopped in traffic, mine usually idles(after warmed up) 0.6k rpm...
Have you some extra oil cooling? because your oil is "cold" and that is forcing the rpm up?🤔
Mine is a n55 so it can be different, mine runs in between 100º~120º... other than that your dct behaves exactly like mine, good work! 👍
I mentioned it in the last vid but I have upped the idle rpm. It idles at 800rpm now. Well targets 800.
I’m gonna get a e90 n55 and put a dct on that 😂💯😌
Silly question, can the DCT work with the xdrive of the E9x chassis without custom fabrication?
Its not silly, but unfortunately you need custom fabrication.
Sounds like you have a bit more intake noise. Should have less drivetrain loss, should be the same as a regular manual. Gonna be sick with an lsd!
I agree with the intake noise. It’s putting more load on the motor at low rpms. Having no torque converter slip would cause that.
Andrew im thinking of going with this Flywheel for my OG M2, i have heard that some say the noise is atrocious in 7th gear on cruise? Would you say it is really so bad?
On mine i just had to raise the rpm shift points. So it wasnt labouring the engine at low rpms. Im gonna keep using this one.
the car is only engaging the clutch pack when you let off the brakes. turning creep mode off wont do anything for your clutchpack. it will only wear them faster because you are going to use more power when touching the throttle.. but xhP is the way to go anyways.
It feels like it starts to creep before pedal is fully off.
how much torque your dct is showing at peak on mhd or jb4? I believe you got stage 3 xhp.
Not sure, I'm sorry, its been a while since this was tuned, the tuner generates the figure regardless. It's calculated with the custom tune and all made to work together with vehicle setup and trans tune. If you over report too much the trans shifts crappy at low load but under report too much and it will slip.
Is flywheel pretty straightforward install? Just remove tranny and old flywheel then bolt in new one? I tried looking through the series, couldn’t find a clip of you showing the physical install of flywheel. Sorry if I missed it.
I can’t remember if it is filmed either. Was a while ago. However it is simple, place on torque up.
@@ZeroTo60Tube Thanks man
I've found an M4 flywheel at a reasonable price, but I'm not sure if it's worth while changing the my current N54 335is DCT flywheel as the car needs no other service done. How long time should it take the workshop to swap it?
EDIT: I had the M4 flywheel mounted, and I honestly can't hear any difference. The engine ofc revs up and down faster 😁
I would expect a shop to work on about 4-5 hours to do the swap. But it could take longer if there are any unknowns. It could also be quicker, but i'd say 4-5 hours is fair.
I have dct from factory and have put the m4 flywheel into it. Not sure if it makes any difference
If nothing else it should help the engine rev a little faster on downshift blip
Will this flywheel fit on the stock dct trans (clutches etc. Stock)
yes
Only BMW in the world where the indicators have seen use 😜
Hahaha
Mannn its making me want to to do the dct swap asap lol, was it worth it tho?
I'll have a better answer for that in a months time when the novelty has worn off.
@@ZeroTo60Tube true that haha, btw superb content bud! Trust me lots of ppl are dying for this kinda swap!
Speaking of weird stuff with mhd launch control. In my 6 mt 335i i set launch control, "the rev limiter basically" to 4500 and bounced it off of it and it was making -6 lbs of boost. Is it normal for mhd to not boost even one or 2 lbs for a launch or did i get a setting wrong or something
You need to get load on the motor to make boost.
@@ZeroTo60Tube what do you mean, im talking like you are at a standstill in 1st gear clutch in. Ready to clutch dump it i rev up the launch control and its not positive boost.
Or ask your tuner about it. I believe for special situations a tuner can make a tune that will spool the turbos in LC (retarded ignition and Vanos). However, as i understand it, you also cannot turn it off, i.e. anytime you drive through that load cell you get that timing, so it’s not really daily drivable.
@@lucasschema6874 basically a turbo motor wont make boost when there is no load on it. Dont matter how hard you rev it. You need to load the engine up, its why fast automatics have transbrakes. You can create load by reducing timing so much that even just spinning the clutch and flywheel will be a load for the motor. But there is some trickery in making that happen and its not a solid method.
What is supposed to be the advantage of running a SMFW?
So main advantage is weight. The motors rev quicker with the lighter flywheel, not so much if big deal with dct on the upshift as it locks in to gear so quickly, but it can help smooth out downshifts as the motor gets to the rev match target rpm faster. Second advantage is no knocking noise on shift. Very high power cars will damage the dmfw fairly quickly. Well not damage. But wear it out and can knock as the gears engage. The downside is the chatter at idle/low rpm high load.
Why do your 4 way flashers come on when you accelerate hard?
The jb4 rev limiter. I keep meaning to disable it
By any chance do you know the torque specs on the mfactory flywheel ?
Unfortunately not. Sorry dude, I remember looking it up, but it was quite a while ago now. I just did it to the same space as the oem auto flywheel.
whats the difference in driving/feel between smfw and the dual ?
Dual should be slightly smoother. But my bet is people wouldn’t notice.
@@ZeroTo60Tube but revs faster?
@@pennypacker2000 Single mass should rev faster as they weight a fair bit less. But no issues with false knock on single.
If you shift between 6000-6500 rpm it’ll help stay in power
Not with hybrids. I only revved it to 6850 on the dyno, but power kept increasing. So i am assuming its probably gonna make power well past 7000rpms.
Gona need a better diff I think
100%
Kinda upset you didn’t film you doing wiring
Thats ok, i didnt know how to do it at the time. But now its all explained, maybe you could do a video explaining it when you do yours?
@@ZeroTo60Tubeyeah I will be filming what I did for wiring. for sure, the rest of your series for this swap is amazing tho! Definitely helpful.
Still stock, still biting my nails. A 700hp daily would be nice.
Its trying to keep the rpm down because emissions, thats all.
🤔 This trans with single turbo or this trans with a lsx turbo swapped into an e91 chassis.😁
one day, one day!
I am sure I can get an adapter built but it's getting the transmission to work with the ecu and chassis is going to be a headache. But 1st I will copy this setup for a daily.
Anyone complaining about that single mass flywheel rattle needs to come and sit in my car with the twin plate
I do wonder if the people complaining have solid mounts. My car is all rubber so drivetrain noise would be minimised.
@@ZeroTo60Tube could be, i just think it's people complaining for the sake of complaining. Everything about going faster than factory is a compromise in some manner. I'm chuffed to see you guys make it work and recover anything you bricked along the way.
1st 🏁
woot woot, dont make a habbit of that please..... haha, i wanna be first next weekend.
m factory smf is not good for your rod bearings due to extra vibration change it to m4 flywheel
Out of curiosity any evidence to back that up? I can’t see how it’s any different to a manual car with upgraded clutch. No one ever says “my manual trans and upgraded clutch is bad for my rod bearings?”
@@ZeroTo60Tube no hard evidence,but a few cases of spun bearings right not long after m factory smf install maybe it causes dis balance of rotating assembly maybe just coincidence
@@durin23 Look it makes sense, but was keen to know more thats for sure. Will keep it in mind. MInd you the boost will probably be a problem long before the flywheel hehe.
@@ZeroTo60Tube respect for pushing the limits will be watching.
Like someone spent alot of money on a budget build
YOLO
I have a m factory flywheel on my dct.335is and im single turbo. Instagram 335is_payne
Its amazing. Definitely worth the purchase. Never heard any rattling or anything
The mfactory flywheel it will fit bolt on? Thanks