Michael S. Heiser: How Do Sacred and Natural History Entwine?
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- Michael S. Heiser is an exegete who has authored several widely read books on Genesis and the Old Testament. Notable in Heiser's work is his commitment to break down scholarly work to serve the public. He hosts long running and widely listened to podcast, The Naked Bible, several websites, is all across CZcams, and is launching a talk show of sorts on odd ball ideas.
In the end we are wondering to together about a grand question. How do sacred and natural history entwine? Could understanding them together tell us something meaningful about our origins?
peacefulscience.org/heiser-sa...
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Don't give up, Dr. Heiser! God used you to draw me back to Him! By listening to you, and other scholars such as yourself, my faith in the message of the bible was strengthened to the point that nothing can shake it anymore.
He helped me tremendously, too, by answering those things atheists like to pick at. I love the man.
Amen! God has used this man tremendously! Praise God!
Heck ya
Michael is excellent for those who are actual Thinkers!
I am so grateful that these two met, & clearly conversing. I so wish my father was still alive to hear this, & wish I could talk to him about it! I will read Josh’s book next, & have read Unseen Realm & listen to Mike’s podcast. Doing so has given me such confidence in scripture & in knowing God in a real manner.
I'm glad we met too! Hope you enjoy my book as much as his :)
Dr.Heiser has been a God send to myself and family & friends..he has opened my eyes to the truth of the text...sure wish I could afford his classes, I will one day
Go to Miqlat.org. Dr. Heiser has a lot of information there.
Plus naked bible podcast and his books
Read the book, and 2 others. Learned so much. Wonderful deep dive into theology and the back story of the Bible.
You are a good interviewer. You steered the questions very well.
Thank you. I have been blessed so much by you both!
I love these videos, he makes so much common sense. We can learn so much from admitting that we do not know something. Yes I always thought that, our current 21st century knowledge is one day going to be antiquated. So we shouldn't use our time now as the benchmark.
Excellent video, Peaceful Science. Thank you very much for it!
Love you. Need you. Please, pretty please, never stop your scholarly mission!
Just found your CZcams channel. Loved your interview on Mike s Naked Bible podcasts got your book, am about half way in to it. Thank you for your work.
Great conversation with lots of good humility. Thanks! See you on FB.
Great discussion. Thank you both.
I love Heiser! Great guest!
Absolutely love Michael Heiser.I have to know if the two of you were talking about the Gap theory when you mentioned pre-adamic man.
I can't speak for the scientist, but Heiser doesn't believe in gap theory. He's put out vids on it before.
Josh, you need to step up your bookshelf game!
shout out to our bro Jorge
Dropping the Mike 🎤 🤣
26:25 “people didn’t know the earth was the shape of an orange.” Not true. The classical view of the cosmos was a series of spheres. They all speak of the earth as a sphere as well. The modern assumption is an example of what C.S. Lewis called chronological snobbery... namely because we came after, we are superior in knowledge. The whole idea the earth was flat is not the majority belief of any culture at any time in history. Especially as a medievalist, if you thought about the shape of the cosmos at all, you would follow your auctors (the ancients thinkers and writers who came before you) and you would take what they said as most likely superior to whatever you could discover. Instead of assuming you know the position of “all those (wrong) old philosophers” who you apparently haven’t read, learn their position and argue based on their position whether you are for or against it. But to lump them all together by a snobbish attitude toward “outdated models” is to make yourself an enemy of fact as a scientist. Theologians are scientists of biblical information. Historians are scientists of historical facts. Philosophers are scientists of the nature of everything. Yet modern scientists claim to be scientists of material facts? I think the ancients did most of what we do better, even if we have a more immediate database of facts or devices that let us look a little further in some direction on the “material plane”. Doesn’t make us wiser or more factual. on the contrary, coming into any science with a snobby attitude toward those who came before you is only going to make you less efficient at your area of work.
It's certainty true we should learn from the past and not look down on them for not thinking the same way we do. But I also think its legitimate to admit we've made advancements in our knowledge in some areas, like science. The ancient world contemporaneous with the Bible would've thought nearly unanimously the world was flat with a dome/firmament above, as they experienced it. If I'm not mistaken the spheres view you mention was largely in regards to philosophy and important categories of life. I.e. sphere of family, nature, politics, etc. The medieval world began to realize the world was spherical from astronomy and mathematics but this was in now way the majority view and the Church persecuted such thinkers because they misunderstood the nature of inspired scripture. I hope we don't make the same mistake. I don't think these men have any disdain for the past. In fact, they owe quite a debt to the giants who came before them in their fields, and I think they'd each say as much. 😊
Honestly, facts give us more confidence than actually ability.
Bottom line, there are things that the Bible and science can't explain. I can promise you this, though.... God knows. There are things that happened at the beginning that we haven't been given the full story yet.
We were given the Word. If the Word is studied , then the answer to all things is there. Maybe not written on black and white pages. However we were given the opportunity to go into Covenant with the creator of the Universe. All that He has is ours,and all that we have is His. Does He not posses all knowledge ?
So did we evolve from an ape like ancestor or not?
This video has been HYPER-monetized. A new commercial like every 2-3 minutes. SOOO FRUSTRATING!
What is the Greek word for scientist and is there a Hebrew word for Scientist?
Scientists didn't exist back then, at least not as we understand the term right now.
@@PeacefulscienceOrg it’s okay to say you don’t know.
Beverly Banks There’s a description of Solomon in the end of 1 Kings 4 you should look at verses 29-34 is a clear description of a scientist. The host of this show may be out of his depth as a historian. You could do a strongs concordance word study on that 1 kings passage and go from there if you notice anything to see parallel passages where the same language is used. As for the Classical Greek word for scientist, you might need to ask someone whose more familiar with the language. Biblical greek and Classical Greek are different, and I’m sure Classical Greek has a word or ten for scientist. Aristotle and previous classical period Greeks established the basis of western science by what they thought through. Logic and rhetoric and astronomy and classification of animals and plants, just to name a few. The ancient word for the study of creation in general was wisdom and the study of the physical world has always raised questions about the spiritual one. Solomons was the best of all the “wisdom traditions” and 1 kings says it in the modern sciency sense
@@joshuaforeman2611 I don’t see how you get that from 1 kings 4. Scientists in today’s sense did not exist back then.
43:40 stop trying and just keep offering lol those who have ears to hear, will 👍🏼🤷🏽♂️🕊yes, abandon your overshoot lol 47:25
So Dr. Heiser, was there really a time, when there were only two humans on the entire earth, created personally by God and from whom everyone is descended? Were said individuals then tempted by a real, celestial entity to eat from a forbidden tree? And once they ate, did God pronounce an actual curse on that entity, Adam and Eve and even the physical creation (as per Romans 8)? Did other celestial entities cohabit with real, physical women, producing monstrous offspring? Yes, we all know you state that this is what the Bible teaches, but do you personally, think these events actually occurred? Or are they just literary devices to act as a polemic against Mesopotamian religion/culture? I keep asking these questions on every video wherein Dr. Heiser discusses origins. I've yet to see him, or anyone else address the elephant in the room. Sure, the Jews might have believed it to be true, the Apostles thought these things really happened, Jesus seemed to believe it actually happen. The question is, does Dr. Heiser believe these things really, truly happened.
I encourage you to read Unseen Realm. He answers these questions clearly.
@17: mins approx. Re your comment “the whole earth” NOT actually meaning that GOD MEANT THE WHOLE EARTH...
In the Hebrew it says “Eretz”…which means EARTH or LAND..THE WHOLE EARTH or LAND
When you START twisting the WORD OF YHWH GOD…THEN you start doing EXACTLY what Satan did to Eve in the garden of Eden..
Go’s SAYS what He means, and MEANS what He says..
Scripture does speak of scientifictruths though..Just saying.. If yaw can't see them yaw looking to hard or evidently not hard enough. Science facts just isn't the main point it's making but is most certainly there.. GOD BLESS yaw..
You quoted a myth that the Earth was not seen as a globe until 1400's. Look:
"The earliest documented mention of the spherical Earth concept dates from around the 5th century BC, when it was mentioned by ancient Greek philosophers. In the 3rd century BC, Hellenistic astronomy established the roughly spherical shape of the Earth as a physical fact and calculated the Earth's circumference.This knowledge was gradually adopted throughout the Old World during Late Antiquity."
You miss heard us I believe. I literally said "I'm not saying that they were all flat earthers and that they knew that the earth was a globe. Rather, they were doubtful that people lived on the other side of the globe. Peace.
@@PeacefulscienceOrg wrong again. The people on the other side couldn’t be reached. You need to realize the difference between what you know and what you don’t. Just say “oh, I didn’t know that, I’ll have to look into that more.” It’s a much more scientific attitude
This may be the case but was in no way the majority view.
"The Babylonians rested every 7 days! I'm about to leave the faith!"
Dr. Heiser: "Really? smh" xD
I don’t think God was saying that science was needed for what He wanted us to know and do.
The whole message of the Knowledge of the tree of good and evil…choose to follow & fellowship with God
or choose that other path that will lead to physical and spiritual death. God could have set up Adam
as the dean of His first University but He didn’t…It was the fallen angels that tempted and taught man sciences.
Are you going to choose to focus on God or your own understanding of the sciences of man?
Science isn’t going to draw you nearer to Jesus. We have all eternity to explore science with God.
If we choose right before we draw our last breath.
God Bless
🙏❤️🎚
Dr. H and Dr. S... Really appreciate the work you're both doing, but I either personally filtered your commentary on why engage the public, or there may be some intrinsic haughtiness to your reasons. Dr. S, obviously in your field you're an amazing computational geneticist, MD etc - - but in your intro you almost seem to pull a "Big Bang Theory" top-looking-down at your view of Dr H - - woahh like you're really a scholar (insert shocking revelation) - - - then you both admit to the great need to engage the public from a "man people really are stupid and I'm just trying to mitigate some of that"... Given that the premise is sound, but isn't that truly one of the great reasons a person pursues higher education, ie to the PhD level, and that is to be able to break down the complex to something more digestible to the less educated? SMH... I'm sure there's a chip on my shoulder here somewhere - - but what earthly good are either one of you to the greater population if you'd decided to only remain in Olympus, dangling Elysium only to the elite? Of course it's a wonderful thing to have you both share your knowledge - - but why would that really be a question? Are all exegetes and scientists so fully removed that deigning to mix among the rabble THAT astounding among the upper crusted scholars?
I didn't mean it as anything other than complimentary :). It was certainly not looking down on him. For some people, it will be a shocking revelation that there is real scholarship in Biblical studies, and that is their ignorance, not mine!
@peacefulscience Dr S - - You truly are a scholar and gentleman which I think why I was miffed. It's sad that there is such a divide between your and Dr H's level of expertise and academic acumen and 'the rest of us".... Dr Tour made a great point when talking about Prof Farina who spoke about "primordial soup" and that supposedly this was directed to elementary age children when in fact college professors still use that terminology and Dr T showed video of it...
I really want to underscore to you and Dr Heiser that your approach to the laity you should be more a norm among scholars. We all need to be "leveled up" in our understanding both theologically and scientifically. Please advocate that from your end. I'm on your mailing list now and hope to overcome my own deficiencies.
Blessings to you who continue this outreach - - though I still stand by the perspective that scholars in the clouds smack of Olympus and earthlings need this divine spark among us all
Wait I am I not fully awake it's 8am? Did he just say at 19:00 that the flood of Noah isn't what it says it is when coupled with his own statement that God spoke it to them? How is it that God would tell someone "hey I flooded the whole Earth so write that down." Next Heiser says basically some of us are idiot's to believe it meant all of us were descendents of Noah and the whole globe was flooded including America and Australia? Or did I just misinterpret because I'm tired?
The problem with this conversation is that you are assuming that people have read the work of some genetic scientist, (Josh), pertaining to the origin of humans. It would sure have been nice if you had recapped what this genetic scientist has found about human genetics as a point of reference. I would have followed your conversation better. I have read Michael Heiser's book Unseen Realm so I know his take on it. Though I have learned very much from Heiser about the Divine Council which I believe is correct. The idea of Elohim inviting the Divine Council to a pizza party, aka the creation of man, missis the mark slightly. I have another idea which I believe can be backed by human genetic research that there are different strains of humans on earth. So I wish you had recapped what Josh had found about human genetics.
Adam and Eve were expelled for eating of the tree of knowledge. Was it only the knowledge of good and evil that God wanted to keep from them or scientific knowledge too? Further the Nephilim taught man science, like use of medicinal plants and metallurgy, both science, and we had the flood as punishment. So, I’m confused with this video and the view is in favor of man knowing science. Please explain.
I will take the word of the Bible over main stream science any day
Our scientists on tv flip EVERYTHING
Upside down
The ole hurricane in the junk yard
Is it just me, or does this image of Miachael make him look serious, which is the complete opposite of the jovial personality you actually get?
Dr. Heiser states here that when God was writing the Bible, He wanted to focus on the "important" things. However, also, apparently, this same God made multiple mistakes in history, geography, anthropology, etc. It would be one thing, if God ignored these things; it is something else when He address them and later on, we figure out that He lied; the world wasn't really created in six days, Adam and Eve were not real people, the flood was just a local phenomenon and somehow, humans wandered around being hunter/gathers for a hundred and ninety thousand years before finally, God spoke to them... So if you cannot trust God on the things He said that you can check for yourself, why should anyone trust God about the things you cannot test out?
This guy talking to Dr Michael with this super arrogant scholar nonsense is annoying.
Heiser: When the Bible says, "the whole earth..." you can't assume a modern, literal reading; it's anachronistic.
Also Heiser: I think an 18th century intellectual program called empiricism is part of subduing the earth.
right.
I don't really see a conflict here. "Whole earth" to them would've been the land they knew. When we think of the whole earth we include geographic regions they didn't and a globe. That's okay.
To the second point. He's not saying science is mandated in the Bible. That'd be silly. He saying taking care of our world through knowledge of its mechanisms would be a modern expression of the original command. 😊