Why is the Citroen DS3 THP engine SOOO BAD?!?
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2022
- I bought this Part Exchanged Citroen DS3 THP 165 Convertible and it's been nothing but TROUBLE!
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Owned my Citroen DS3 from brand new since 2016. 121kw Euro 6 THP 1.6 engine which has just done 77,000 km. Currently I have it going through a stage 4 performance upgrade. The DS3 is the best car I’ve ever owned. You need to clean the valves every 30,000 km as it’s direct injection. Keep it serviced, and it shouldn’t have a problem. Timing chain issues were eradicated with the release of the euro 6 engine as psa lengthened the tensioner. If you use a non factory tensioner it won’t have this revision - so don’t cheap out on parts and always fit genuine. The rattle at the start is how the engine is until it’s warm. Sometimes it does it, sometimes it does not. After 7 years I haven’t had a break down, it doesn’t eat oil, and it consistently pulls hard to redline. Soon it will have 300 hp. Can’t wait!
You think I should leave it alone then mate? My video tonight shows the noisier start up, be good to get your opinion on it
@@ChopsGarage like I said, the noise has come and gone only on start up ever since I’ve owned it. Once the engine is warm it never does it. I’ve only had a good experience with Citroen and DS, then again I do service and look after the car meticulously. I also went down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out this noise thinking it was the chain, but If the chain and guides are flogged out the noise is completely different and not good. Will watch and listen to the video tonight. Cheers 👍
How do you clean the valves then , 👍
Euro 6 that you have is refined engine, that ones don-t have problems as I know. Older versions are problematic.
Because essentially it's a modern BMW Unit. Designed cheaply and without any form of tolerance for timing chain slack and with weak components. The engine is basically the pretty strong and reliable PSA TU10 block and piston's mated to a BMW engineered cylinder head and valve train. When working correctly it's a great unit ..but more often or not they don't. Vanos issues, chain tensioners etc etc.
It's easy for BMW fanboys to apportion the blame on PSA but when in actual fact it's all the BMW developed componentry that go south in these units - which is very evident when you strip one down.
I can totally agree I had a 1.4 Citroen c3 with the 90hp engine and the cylinder head failed after 3 years and 27000 miles I had the rattling as well on mine and was told by Citroen both issues were common
After replacement I had no issues
It was such a disappointing engine after my first c3 which had the older PSA 75hp engine
Thank the lord, someone who actually knows what they’re talking about! BMW scrap engines.
It’s sad to think that BMW used to build some of the best engines ever put into production cars. Most of the stuff they’ve designed in the past 20 years is absolute junk. Failing at low mileages with high mileage issues (big end bearings, timing chains etc)
BMW is atrocious.
@@limpet7r63 Living on past glories like so many German car manufacturers?
Sounds like a wheeler dealer style trading up thing I would be intested to see how that works out.always enjoy you're videos keep up the good work.
I had one of these a 2010, and had it for almost 5 years. I used to get a rattle at start up, especially after sitting, until oil pressure built up. Turned out it was the cam chain tensioner. A few times it unscrewed itself and then leaked oil all over the back of the engine. Replacing the tensioner helped, but id never buy one again.
I was going to say something similar but you covered it 👍
I have a c4 Picasso with 1.6 thp engine and the car is shaking when it is at idle position. Dealer cleaned the valves replaced oil with 10w60 but this shaking problem is still there and annoying.I think your solution might solve my problem Thanks!
@@nburaq let me know how you get on. Good luck.
Trading up to a Morgan sounds like a fun series. Probably need to flip them quick to maintain interest and what happens if one of the buys is a "Look whats back in again."
James that's sounds like a very interesting plan Trading up to a Morgan would love to see that on your channel in my opinion your channel is one of the most interesting automotive channels on CZcams. Keep the good work up I look forward to watching your next episode.
Nice to see a honest car dealer out there. Sure plenty of other dealers would just put it up for sale and not say enything and say was fine when ya brought it. Always seem honest and helpful to your customers at chops. 👍
We had a 2011 1.6thp ds3. It was a bit of a nightmare, coked up valves, coil pack issues and rough erratic idle. After 6 long months Citroën finally solved the issue by putting a new high pressure fuel pump on it. Was perfect after that, never missed beat but we sold it as i couldn't stomach owning one out of warranty.
Oh interesting
Wow, trading up that money would be very interesting. Should be a great series of video's!
Hello! I had the same DS3, a year or two older, and I had big engine issues. Very similar to the issues you had. Car was brand new and under warranty. Spent around 6 months in and out of dealer. Eventually they replaced the engine…
I own a DS 3 1.6THP and mine used to idle rough for a while and then it just stopped doing it and it only occasionally does it. It's more than likely just the engine being sat for a while. Some engines idle a lot louder and rougher than the THP when it's cold. My advice would be to just drive the car and enjoy it, it's nothing to worry about mate 👍
Yeah I'm into you trading up to what you aspire to. You have the skills and ethics to make this work for you, it will be another aspect to look forward to on your channel.
That trading up would be great to watch James, great selection of cars you have at present as well
Hell yes, I’d love to see the ‘Trade Up’ to Morgan series. Be a good watch.
Enjoying the mix of content on the videos keep up the good work 👍👍
Good idea with the Up James, definitely would be an interesting series 👍🏻
Trading up sounds like a fun idea for a series. I would definitely enjoy seeing some of that as long as we all get a ride in the Morgan at the end;) I live near a garage in Norfolk that sells them and they are fantastic so the best of luck.
Hi James, why not make the Citroen your “daily” for 2 weeks to give it a chance to prove itself before retailing it? 👍
They are absolute junk. It's the BMW/PSA joint project, the 'Prince' engine of doom. The standard ones are bad enough; oval bores, ring wear, timing chain stretch, guides breaking, oil leaks etc etc etc. The turbo ones are much worse; high pressure fuel pump, inlet ports coking up and so on. If the brake vacuum pump seizes, it stops the camshaft dead and the timing chain rips the vanos gear clean off. It's very similar to the MINI unit. Hateful rubbish.
Apart from that they are ok 😂
I thought you were going to run out of space for one minute.....
Are there any symptoms of the vacuum pump problem? Haven't heard of many such catastrophic failures?
It only effects those made on any day ending in Y. 😉😊
@@danielthorpe4750 No. It's a rare fault but it does happen.
Hello, Ive got a fair bit of experince with these engines both mini and citroen and they can be an utter nightmare. My advise would be to check the oil pressure from cold as well as hot. If its not right then just get rid otherwise it could turn into a massive can of worms. Low oil pressure will cause uneven idle as well as chain rattle and not always have any fault codes. Common oil pressure fault codes are vanos or mixture related. Hope this helps.
Yes, that would be very interesting. Fascinated to see how long that takes :)
Its a quick little car mate, my sons g/f got one but the problems started 1 week after buying it when the oil light came on, last mot listed an oil leak but not dripping on the floor .weve cured the cracked plastic cam cover ( that was the annoying oil misting leak) its had a st/steel scorpion cat back exhaust fitted. Chomps oil at a horrendous rate , approx 1 ltr per 450-500 miles, no’1 plug tip ceramic missing ( iridium plugs too) replaced 1 plug only as only 55k and all plugs plugs show oil fouling cos of blow by. Now gets knock codes ( inlet valves coking up) next visit here is check Pcv, change oil filter ( cos theyve hidden it away for an easy user change) and assess the blow by into the turbo inlet…. Need to see it cold start and follow it to assess blue smoke…. It’s defo burning oil cos there was loadsa carbon crud on the tailpipe before it was changed. I’ll see that showing again likely as it was a few weeks ago.Terraclean guy reckons his gear wont fix the cruddy inlets. Need to isolate if its rings/bore or stem seals worn out next…. Nice enough cheap car but engine is a pile of cack.
Trading up with an Up! Like it hope you get your Morgan I look forward to seeing how it goes. Good luck
I have a BMW 320 (2200cc) 6 cylinder m coupe from 2005. Had it 6 years now has 95k on clock and its fine . Sounds amazing . But it may be going due to having a replacement. I also have a 2010 2.0 dci Qashqai which we have had from new , it's done 175 k and still runs great , it's replacement is still largely unused since November. A Kia sportage diesel mild hybrid which is great too
Always felt Mike Brewer’s Trading Up was a little too stage managed, with the cars he buys and sells being carefully researched to allow an easy fix and turnaround. So I’d be really interested in seeing someone do it for real. Best of luck, love the vids you do, I’m not in the trade so always a fascinating to see how it works.
I think the only way he's able to do it is getting free parts and probably free cars and just bases them on their value when really he puts no money in
Love the idea of a trading up series; that would make an interesting watch. Up! should be a good first car, she's a fancy one too!
Most of the issues were fixed with the EP6FDT, the older EP6CDT engines had the issues which that DS3 has (150/155CV engines), the FDT came out with the facelift and switch to E6, , but It's best to give it the full timing chain replacement with the updated parts also checking the valves as they notorious for heavy coking from the PCV. PSA/Stelantis are still using the FDT version and there's not been many complaints about it.
Yes there are, just wait for it.
Gotta agree, got a ds3 facelift with the fdt, 55k miles never had an issue, never had an engine light, no timing chain noise, very fun to drive and efficient, with the right maintenance this is actually an amazing engine
Had a friend who worked on Citroen cars and even supported the Citroen rally works team . he loved a true citroen and said they were brilliant but any joint ventures or as he called it " built for the value market" . His advice was get one new with a warranty and sell before 3 years , pass the trouble on .
You are getting tight chops. I would have had him painted full bumper 😇 keep them coming your channel makes me something to look forward to.
£150 more or £15 cover
Great video yet again. Love the idea to get a Morgan, used to own a pub in Malvern so saw them all of the time, never owned one but think they are great. Look forward to you getting one in memory of your Dad👍👍👍👍
Hi Mr Chops, loving your work. Question what dilution do you use on the engine bay with the G101
James trading up to the Morgan sounds awesome might take a while but worth it I think .
DS3 problem have you checked the banjo clamps on intercooler pipes, and also for any splits or wear holes ?
VW UP looks like a nice profitable turnaround James, I wouldn't worry anymore about the Citroën DS3 get it cleaned and up for sale.
Love the sound of the trading up series. Hopefully your theory about the DS3 turns out to be right too
I'm wondering if the noise could be caused by the fuel-air mixture regulator making it run rough or a bad earth connection on the electronic stuff,I hope that you get to the bottom of this issue.
Thanks for the shout out again buddy , I really do love to pop in and annoy you 😀😀😀😀 don’t forget to subscribe guys lol 😂
Just a quick question James,,do you use cold water with the pressure washer/snowfoam?
The trading up project seems a great idea, would love to see if you actually make it to a Morgan.
More than likely it's the start of the fuel pump showing signs of wear, can give intermittent idle issues such as this
Where to start with the THP engine...
The rough idle at startup could be caused by a slightly leaky hydraulic valve lifter. If that particular valve is open when the engine is stopped, the oil will leak out of the lifter over several hours, and when the engine is restarted, that cylinder will have no compression until the oil pressure is up and the valve lifter has refilled itself, which takes several seconds. If you sit one of these engines for a few weeks (even a good one) they have a rough idle for a while at the next start. This could have been caused by a previous delayed oil change and dirty oil, but probably not worth fixing.
If the fault code is for over-boost or super-knock, then the problem is likely the atmospheric filter for the boost control valve. This is located on a plastic tube that sticks up just rear of the engine top cover at the gearbox end. The filter has a rubber cap that shrinks over time and restricts the airflow, so the turbo control valve can't dump vacuum fast enough, causing the over-boost fault. Just remove the rubber cap from the little filter (leaving the filter in place) and that code should not come back.
It is not unusual to be able to hear the dump valve operating if you have the window open. Just check that the air pipe into the turbo is tight and that the 2 breather pipes that feed into that are also in-place.
I like the idea of trading up to a Morgan. Look forward to seeing how you get on
Looking forward to the new series James, great idea 💡
cheers Martin
Like the idea of 'Projects' like the VW Up as it will provide the channel with more variety of content, especially if you do the cash-trading to get a Morgan. The only thing is being realistic about the actual profits of the trades, as other channels have done this and bury reality of costs, overheads and labour with a lot of hype to produce somewhat fake results just to make themselves look good ...
Anyway, good to see that business seems to be on a positive trend.
Yeah trade up to the Morgan sounds good and fun. Great updates and hope that DS3 gets sold soon as a great car just let down by its engine!!😀😀
Back in 1980 when I worked for Lucas Aerospace. The maintenance Chippy (Carpenter) had a Red Morgan which he would drive into the factory and park it by his workbench when on a night-shift. He was terrified that someone would steal it. He also told me how it was basically a Ford Cortina with a Wooden Chassis.. Ideal for a Carpenter to own.
It was a Lovely looking Car in bright Red but I don't think I would fancy leaving it in the car park at the supermarket whilst doing shopping..
Very best of luck with your Dream of owning a Morgan 👍👍🤞🤞🤞
James... Half of your videos start off with "Look at what's back..." 😁 Oh the joys of older vehicles.
I would say the suspension on the XJ looks a bit low, but it may just be the camera angle the compressor is a known failure point on the air suspension I don't know how old the car is but must be at least 15 years old if it is still on its original unit then its probably rather tired by now, I would also check for fault codes relating to the suspension. A poor battery can also create another load of problems especially if its been standing for a long time, If you think it has a problem don't mess about charging it just replace it.
Keen to see how you get on fixing up the XJ as I have an early XJR X350 myself plus 3 other older Jaguars.
Keep up the good work.
How bizarre, my mum has a 2013 never had an issue. Sending my love to it
SsshhH! 😀
Great content again James 👍 if you leave that Micra much longer it will be a convertible 🤣
I'm considering of buying a 2016 with 96K kilometers on it. No idea if engine was replaced or not, but considering the car been drive for some quite time and probably passed all the "warrenty problems" that would have popped up through the years... Would you guys recommend it? I'm currently driving a 2017 Clio with 0.9 engine which is extremely reliable as it seems but even after stage 1 it makes merely 130HP and I want something more powerful and more fun.
Father in law has one of the price engine in a 308, none turbo version. Engine wise it's been fine apart from it occasionally throwing a emissions light.
Sounds like a good plan see how quickly you can get to the Morgan 👍
The trading up series sounds a winner James. Look forward to it.
Cheers
Great idea to trade up to the Morgan James. Who do you use in Barnstaple to refurbish the alloys?
That would be a amazing series for the channel James
I understand but I've 11 years with my ds3 still going strong
Could the issue be the battery? My wife's 5 year old Toyota was running a bit rough on occasions when starting up, usually when weather was cold. Stuck a new battery in and it's been fine since..
I read it as "my 5 year old wife's toyota"
Will make more good content James, bought my wife a 2015 vw up last year she loves it,excellent car
Thanks 👍
Be a brilliant series not my thing the Morgan at all but each to their own … looking forward to seeing the progress
Don't worry about the DS3, sell it and see if you get a come back on it. I think it was just the fact it had been sat for so long and oil pressure low
Like the idea of the trading up series to get to the Morgan .
James,just catching up on your videos now,been waiting ages and hoping that you would do a flipping up series for one dream car to keep,i think it would be great for content and you would have your dream car for a small initial investment
James, when you say wheel acid, what specific product do you use?
It could be something like timing chain tensioner given that’s it’s intermittent.
A friend had a DS James, and I must admit I quite liked the interior and the way it drove, and I'm no way a Citroen fan!....I did think there may be something in the turbo area that's amiss on yours.
Love the Idea of a 'Trading up' series....and you'll make a more honest job of it than a certain Mr Brewer (sorry I'm not a fan).
PS, get on with the Jags !!!!!!!!!.....Lol...all the best mate.
A series of flipping upwards to better car each time is definitely something I would watch.
Cool
Great idea for the channel i buy from salvage market and do them up in my spare time love it mainly Hyundai I may say they fly away
Hi James
trading up adventure sounds good, i noticed that on Qashqai the seats have a stripe effect after shampooing, this happened on my wifes Qashqai and no matter how much i re wet vac i can not get rid of the stripes, would be interested to know if you have same issue
''Road To Morgan''. Sounds interesting, you should do it. 100 % would watch that
Bloody hell, not knowing much about their reliability I actually thought they were pretty good little hot hatches. Shows what I know 😂😂
Mine's been great, after I got the chain sorted and got it de-coked. Doesn't use any oil or coolant. It's not fun like the hot-hatches of old but hey.
They're good when they work. Their issues are well understood now, so with the right fixes and maintenance they're not that bad, but still, I wouldn't own one personally. These are also in second gen Minis which is where I know them from.
I think they are, provided you're willing to pay for the breakdowns! 😂
@@MrManBuzz Yeah I don't think I'd have another one. The worst thing about PSA cars in my opinion is the stupid economy mode crap - I don't want my car dictating what I do, it's my slave not the other way round.
Buy a diesel, it’s a proper Peugeot engine which is excellent… These 1.4 and 1.6 petrol are BMW designed and engineered engines
I had one for 7 years did exactly the same had it in Citroen a few times never found anything wrong and they said it’s a common thing I loved mine had no issues except the odd cam sensor and general stuff always serviced with good oil don’t worry about it sell it
Thanks Nick!
Had a 1.6 diesel for a few years now.
Served me well....touch wood!
Sips fuel.
Wish it had cup holders!
I know someone whos made a laser cut out for cup holders
Like the idea of the trade up, could be a fun watch.
Sounds interesting your series idea 👍
Very Mike Breweresque
The DS3 -Trade it out. You've got the idea in your head that there's something wrong with it, you're never going to be confident retailing it, no matter how much tinkering you do or get Moore's do to it, so trade it, get rid of it & move on.
Completely agree👍, it’s a headache waiting to happen 😞
Look forward to the trade up! Go for it
Cheers
The trading up sounds like a good idea dude 👍 be interesting to see if you actually managed to do it 👌
Leave the citroen parked up for a few days 👍
Will do
Think trading up to the Morgan will be good to watch bit like wheeler dealers dream car. Can't wait to see you do some of your projects like the van
Cheers Shane
look forward to following the trading up...or down if it doesn't work out!!
Love the idea of buying ever more expensive cars and hopefully you will end up with a Morgan!
Your 'Flip to a Fortune' sound a great idea
Great idea James, the trade up to dream car, Mike Brewer did a series on it and i loved watching how it worked, go for it 👌👌
Hello, does this engine have a cat warmer ? I had a bam e series that made a hollow metallic kind of noise when stood for a while or when cold. Enjoy the content keep it up.
Don't think so, the cat is in the manifold. I hope there isn't another one.
As a former citroen master tech these engines could be troublesome in various different ways like timing chains stretching causing rattling , vvt solenoids not usually an issue but they can wear the teeth on the cam where the solenoid adjusts the cam timing , they also suffer from sticky valves due to being direct injection ....only thing to add is they are usually very sensitive to em faults so if its got a fault the light will isually come on
I bough ds3 1.6 petrol. Started n turned off, bit noisy
Camshaft position slow response bank 1 ifi scan with diagnostic any ideas starting with?
@@MrJomajoo usually stretched timing chain
@@paulwoodburn4474 bit small noice all the time. Friend had bmw and on start was noici for 1 sec and then fine. Mine is all the time and that mennagement light on. Shows camshaft position sensor bank 1.
Day before changed thermostat as been leaking. Started car and started working not nice. Like not all cylinder and car turned of.
I do suspect also chain. Just though maybe change sensor. Then oil sensor... But think there is no point...
@@MrJomajoo the chain stretches and usually puts cam sensor codes in and sometimes brakes the upper chain guide thats where alot of the rattling noise usually comes from
Would you recommend the bluehdi diesel engine then?
Hey Chop! Love your channel.
I have a DS3 with the 163THP Prince engine... Mine does the same thing and as far as I know there is nothing wrong with it. Mine's had a timing chain kit and spark plugs etc and runs great at 78k miles.
The timing chain-type noise only happens when it starts rough, which with mine isn't very often. It's done it a couple of times in the last 6 months. It's like it fires but only runs on 2.
Not sure what causes it, it's sort of like the leaking injectors problem on the low-pressure petrol engines of old.
Mine's remapped and goes like stink. I quite like this engine to be honest, although I know they have certain stupid design issues.
Thanks buddy reasuring
@@ChopsGarage I'll second that. The chain uses spring tension pressure until there is is sufficient oil pressure to tension the chain. There are numerous desigin revisions and none really fixed it. Ambient temprature also makes a big difference. Before you turn it over, please check for oil consumption. Anything under 2K miles / lite is good! The VVT sproket actuators can get noisy too. An R56 mini specialist is a good bet because there were far more minis sold.
I hope you've got an oil catch can installed. They're basically a necessary upgrade on these to help make them somewhat reliable.
@@MrManBuzz I had thought about installing one, but didn't really want to modify it given that they're SO complicated.
Some people seem to think you can get rid of the oil deposits by Seafoaming it every year or so?
@@danielthorpe4750 It's your car so you do what you want, but I'd highly recommend you put one on. Search for ones for the Mini R56 Cooper S. Same engine, and the consensus with that crowd is it's an absolute necessity. An oil catch isn't exactly a drastic engine modification either. You could install one in less than an hour or two.
I loved my 208 GTi with the same engine... I serviced it regularly and maintained it well... 173K on its original engine and turbo... its a good engine if its maintained properly but most people don't look after cars as they should
Totally agree with this. Thought I feel manufacturers and dealers are to blame. 20k service intervals to me seems crazy. Personally I do 8k intervals full which some may see as a tad overkill however has proven my car over the past 3 years has done 70k without any issues.
@@hal752 8k is definitely not overkill. I service every 5k on my Clio RS, and every 3 for my Mazda 1.6d as the oil feed pipes very easily clog up and kill the turbo. Think Mazda advise a 12k oil change, which is way off imo for these engines.
Not everyone has your ability unfortunately. A car should be designed with mechanically uneducated people in mind. Hence french cars are beyond a joke.
@@hal752 Yep, always do this. 20k is stupid.
my 208gti ran beautifully
Sounds like an interesting trade up project.
Trading up is a great idea might try it myself for a bit of fun and save me spending the money in the pub
What phone do u use mate . What model Samsung
I love Morgans I'm 35 years old and the aero 8 and a plus 4 is my dream motor.
a trading up series would definitely be interesting
Definitely like to see how you get on trading up but I think if you have a few like the up it could be a while🤣,hope you sort out the ds3 issue ir not issue who knows,cheers
Alot of comments on the PSA/BMW engine.I am not connected to the trade anymore but have heard they have alot of issues even at very low mileage.To be honest I dont think your description sounds like timing from the valves but more of a sensor .Has it got an EGR valve because if they start sticking can make a noise and cause a rough idle.?
Don't think they have an EGR valve. The inlet gets coked up like mad though.
If oil not changed every 5000 ish miles or gets slightly low the timing chain tensioner on these can cause issues ..also these engines dont like ethanol ...
Do you mean they don't like E10? They are supposed to be ok with it?
The DS3 - Is that the built in scent diffuser to the left of the centre heater vents?
Yes, but the refills are mighty expensive, I just use a normal Air Freshner in mine .
I read the pre 2014 THP engines can suffer stretched Timing Belts&excessive oil consumption.
I’ve had the exact same issues with my ds3 dsport. It’s a 2013 model with around 78,000km on it. I’ve had the oil solenoid pump valve, spark plugs and oil and filters replaced. I heard a rattle but the mechanic said it was just in my head and the faults never come up. The car has a little bit of a rough idle, and when I went to take it for a drive today it rattled extremely loudly in idle, then went away. However when I stared revving it I heard the rattle consistently and I’m worried if it’s timing chain
Flying Wheels on CZcams has done a similar series with £2,500 trading up, it’s a great watch and they get 100k+ views on some of the videos so they definitely have a demand
Had a Citroen D3 nice car but it's got a DSG gearbox. Wouldn't go into gear and lost reverse on it. Took it to a gearbox specialist tried his best, still kept displaying engine management and wouldn't go into gear. Traded it in at dealership. Passed by dealership a day later car was on the forecourt for sale, Arnold Clark for you.
Is there a follow up to this? I'm interested to hear what the diagnostic read! Was it the turbo solanoid?
Same problem with the gearbox in my Mercedes Vito van which I found out was made by Renault.