Oh Man...Ahsoka Numbers Are In...HOW DID THIS HAPPEN
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- čas přidán 13. 10. 2023
- The Ahsoka finale numbers are in and it's not what I thought...but why? With Anakin, Ahsoka, Ezra, Thrawn and Sabine...what happened to the viewerships? Is it indicative of a bad show? Or more of a core niche audience? Let's discuss the Ahsoka numbers.
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I liked the Ahsoka show, A LOT, but eps 7 and 8 were just not keeping up with the same trajectory and excitement for me.
These numbers...are they indicative of a bad show? Or more of a core niche audience? Let's discuss the Ahsoka numbers.
They're indicative of people not trusting Disney to do anything good with Star Wars. That's what the numbers are indicative of.
Bad show
Theory your Star Wars is dead son. Accept it.
They're indicative of the show being mid and not as good as people were hyping it up to be. The quality is no better than any other Star Wars show
The numbers indicate that when the penultimate episode came out... that people could see that all the prior issues which the season showcased (a plot which stumbled continuously, was full of contrivances, had terrible dialogue etc) ... werent going to be solved in the finale, as the finale just had no setup in 7.
Ezra and Thrawn seemed more like they were missing for a couple of days. Did NOT seem like hardened survivors stranded in a "wasteland"
Fil oni ruined Ezra. He was a joke. How did that idiot survive for ten years.
@speedycerviche2380 better than the trash like the sequels
@@speedycerviche2380 Explain how he was ruined and a joke
@@secondsister1816 he won't and if he does it will be something like blah blah blah wahmen
@@robkerr9930true
The part where Sabine got stabbed, in the stomach, and the sith girl didn't even move the saber a tiny bit to kill her... Also Sabine being able to fight off a force user with 0 powers herself was laughable. It's a show for children and you can really feel it in the (lack of) tension and writing.
all you have to do is put a little bit of thought power into what you are watching to realize every episode is filled with plot holes but disney sw fans aren't capable of that
*jingle keys*
First of all, she wasn’t Sith. Secondly, yeah that was trash. Should have been instant death.
@@roddeloach1I dont think she could kill her because Ahsoka will probably be Shin Hati master in the next season. And i think theres a "thing" between Shin and Sabine ( Even though Shin could have killed her many times but didint..)
It wasn't in the stomach.
knew it. Every time you see something, you're blinded to nostalgia, then after a couple weeks, you come to your senses. Disney SW just sucks, plain and simple
*jangling them keys*
MEMBERRR?
Honestly I say SW itself has always been pretty bad, with some occasional hits
The "Don't worry about now, worry about what happens next" is killing everything. It all feels like a promo for something better later.
That's all Disney Star Wars has been since the beginning. It unironically is exactly JJ Abrams philosophy, so it seems like that ideology spread to lucasfilm after the sequels
Yes that is the main problem. This needed more story of its own even if it ends in a: it will be continued tone.
I know a lot of people didn’t like the Mandalorian S3 (it also has its own flaws). However, I feel that this show didn’t do the mistakes that Ahsoka did. The S3 has its own story arc about all of Mandalore, and the story of Mando an Grogu ends like a new beginning. This shows that both things can be done. Even if the plot was a continuation of Rebels the characters should have been introduced as they were entirely new characters and the series should have had an story that begun and ended there. It felt that nothing begun and nothing ended, we just saw series of events in the middle of things. I had no problem with it because I watched the animated shows but I feel that other people should be able to enjoy this too.
Yea it makes me feel like this is all just content and not really art to them. This is the same problem that made the mcu painful to sit through.
That we never get
Many programs seem to be like that now, especially anything from Apple. I find it hypocritical that writers are on strike when they write such utter bollocks.
Not really a shocker when Disney has destroyed almost everything….
Evidently, yes.
Exactly… Ahsoka had objectively poor writing, acting, dialogue and directing, plus so many other avoidable flaws. Disney Star Wars is pathetic and embarrassing. It’s no overstatement when people say there’s no hope for it. Disney doesn’t even care for it.
Nah ahsoka was legit a f. Y'all just salty complainers looking for the easiest target to bitch about.
@@starwarstairiquealso turning Ashoka into a boring character
@@starwarstairiquethe funniest thing are the SW CZcamsrs, it's like they have been completely blinded to reality. With each new show it feels more and more like they are mirroring the Jedi Council and their diminishing ability to see the darkness around them in SW 1, 2 & 3.
Problem with the shows is they rely too much on references & cameos. They also just straight up don't commit to any plot points and fail to pay off anything they try and set up.
Andor was the only show that felt planned out and was able to tell a story everyone can get invested in.
Star Wars Theory thinks episode 5 is one the best episodes in all of Star Wars. I never forgot. bUT hOw cOuLd thIs hapPeN?
Haven't watched one second of it and won't because I figured it would suck. Not shocking that it relied on references and cameos like Solo and Matrix Resurrections. It's really a slap in the face to dish out this terrible content to fans, but also the fans' fault for watching it, therefore encouraging them to dish out more of the same.
Andor was boring as shit 2🤡
I watched Ahsoka's premiere on day 1 but didn't bother with the other episodes.
I literally skipped through the first episode of Andor but then when it started getting good I loved it
It's why Andor was such a breath of fresh air because while there were fan service and cameos, they took a back seat to telling the story about these characters. Whenever nostalgia was used I didn't roll my eyes or get annoyed.
Because god forbid we try something new with Star Wars right?
I think people are making this more complicated than it really is.
The fact is that Disney just cannot make good Star Wars content, or any content lately for that matter. They are handicapped by their own hubris.
Rogue One and the first two seasons of Mandalorian were great - there is capacity there if they would just get out of their own way.
Andor was phenomenal. Hopefully they don't realize how good it was and muck it up.
I almost wanted to mention that in my original comment, but yeah that’s generally right.
But yeah if they really got serious they could make INCREDIBLE content, and I’m just sad they don’t you know :/
@@earthenjadis8199mando was god awful. It was riddled with contrivance after contrivance. This is the problem, Star Wars fans can’t tell what is quality and what isn’t.
George Lucas only had a 50/50 success rate.
Can we talk about how Ashoka fights with severe arthritis, given she’s old, but Ellsbeth is just as old and managed to have a little bit of vigor, or how the stormtroopers act like the summation of their brain cell is 10.
Or how Sabine’s betrayal is just forgiven. This show has zero consequences for any action.
@@-_StarwarstheoryYTs_ obvious scam
fr
My friend, I have seen Rebels and Clone Wars 2-3 times over. Loved them. The problem with Mando season 3 and Ahsoka was storytelling or the lack thereof. Fan service and Easter eggs dont make good shows
THANK YOU
FOR REAL
Bro just described the first two seasons of the Mandalorian as well and didn't even realize it.
@mtgleam8723 I thought the same while typing my response. I just enjoyed Mando s1 and s2 for other reasons, but you're right
@@noblesix5596 I personally did not enjoy them, but respect that you did. I've always thought Mando was mega overrated to be honest.
I enjoyed Ahsoka but overall I can't deny it was pretty mid.
Instead of just admitting that overall Ahsoka missed the mark, fans will write an entire thesis to explain away Disney's lack of effort in developing a meaningful and cohesive story for these beloved characters.
For real these fans are on hard copium.
"beloved characters"
90% of Star Wars fans has never heard of the main character, never mind the rest
Most people don’t really care about the Clone Wars show.
The elephant in the room is Disney's overt efforts in political and culture wars. They have turned many away from the brand.
Yeah. Why oh why did the vapid show where nothing happens and most of the time is spent staring at the writer's OC in silence, fail miserably. All it did was spit in the face of logic, present rediculous action pieces, and destroy even its own characters. What went wrong? I just don't know? Le Sigh.
Filoni’s writing is quite one dimensional; it’s more nostalgic and set up in lieu of dramatic tension, threat and clear stakes.
My evidence really goes back to the first episode of the Mandalorian that he was involved in - Chapter 5: The Gunslinger - which was a lot of nostalgia and a lot of set up but ultimately nothing happens. You could cut that episode and Mando / Grogu don’t come away changed or thinking about their place in the world dramatically differently; they just did a thing and oh look is this Boba Fett? Tune in next year to find out!
Take this with the first episode of Ahsoka - a lot of set up and a lot of nostalgia but doesn’t really provide something compelling to keep watching other than the underdeveloped bad guys breaking out Morgan. But, we have live action Lothcats and Clancy Brown is playing his animated character that he voiced for a few episodes of Rebels. But what about the namesake of the show?
A big concern is (dare I say) but Ahsoka was a little bit too perfect. Her flaws weren’t apparent, a lot of her conflict happened off screen in a show that while beloved by the fan base gave no context in the way of this show so it was hard to feel anything. This show needs a writers room because Filoni - while people will sing his praises from his work with TCWs and Rebels, wasn't writing the arcs or the plots that everyone fell in love with.
TL:DR - Filoni ain't a writer and it shows. Get actual writers and things might turn around.
He's a good writer for kids animation but it's not enough for serious live action
@@davadh He's a showrunner, not a writer. Most TCW/Rebels episodes were written by other writers. He's good at the vision, but not great at the details.
@@davadhhe didn’t write those shows though
He shows up to work
I'll bet dolloars to doughnuts you were one of the jokers calling for Filoni to take over just 2 years ago. STFU.
I never thought I would feel this way growing up. All I wanted as a kid was stuff like what they’re doing r n. Shows, more movies, the 2000s were a great time to grow up in. But after Disney bought Star Wars back in 2013, and they shut down Lucas Arts while also making all the comics and novels non-canon. That’s where things started to go down hill for me.
I tried to watch the shows, Andor was amazing, but Obi Wan, the sequel movies, the ruining of older characters. It killed my drive. One of my coworkers doesn’t understand why I’m doing this as he loves the newer shows, and I’m a huge nerd for the older stuff (legends). Even seeing CW characters in live action, I just no longer have a drive to watch it. Even when people tell me they’re bringing in prequel Anakin, I’m like: “Wow that’s awesome. Hope they don’t mess it up, have a good time watching it.”
I don’t want to feel this way but I feel like I was pushed out, and now I have no favorite franchise anymore.
Honestly almost exactly how I feel. All I ever wanted was more SW content, specifically references to the Clone Wars time period, but with how everything has been I've just checked out. I liked TFA when I first watched it, Andor and Rogue One were amazing, and Mando seasons 1-2 were entertaining. I didn't like Mando season 3, Book of Boba Fett was just bad, as were TLJ and RoSW, and because of word of mouth and my opinions on what I'd seen at that point I've avoided everything else Star Wars that Disney has made. I still really like OT and prequels, as well as CW and Andor/Rogue One, but aside from that it's essentially dead on arrival to me.
It was an alright show but only really for people who know of the animated shows. And with how rushed it felt near the end I dont blame people who left
A friend of Mine didn't even know who tf Ahsoka is and she still enjoyed the show. Not watching the animated shows gives you the Same vibe Episode 4 gave you the First time (If you havent watched it in chron Order)
I think that’s really a big part of it. The show relies heavily on the audience already caring about most of the characters, having watched Rebels, an animated series. It doesn’t work as well if you’re someone who has no clue who they are, or only knows Ahsoka.
I love TCW and Rebels and I thought the show was trash.
@yankeefan1018 I don't think it has to do with whether or not fans know about the characters. Star wars is a huge IP with a huge fan base that will usually watch anything star wars. The reality is we got too many bad star wars shows Kenobi, Book of Boba, Mando season 3. I watched rebels and the clone wars but didn't feel like even trying ashoka because of the quality of content we've been getting and clearly I made the right decision.
I know and watched all of clone wars and rebels years ago but this show didn't resonate with me, this show is obviously made for newer fans, especially targeted to girls
Personally I think it’s the drip feeding of the good stuff in episodes.
It feels like they just give us enough to keep us mildly interested but they never really spoil us.
I have felt like this with nearly every Disney made show.
Kennedy believes in the less is more mantra utter nonsense of course ,since season two ending with Luke we have got nothing like since.
@@brendanhiggins3442Just what I was going to being up.
@@brendanhiggins3442 I don’t get how she hasn’t been fired yet.
@@brendanhiggins3442wait is she still in charge of anything
@@CyberMonty2077her employers are only interested in money, so as long as people watch numerous garbage click bait shows on D+ and buy BabyYoda merch she’s fine “please receive this $10m bonus from our corp.” or something.
Nostalgia alone can’t hold fans, it’s great seeing our favorite characters in live action but this story is sooooo convoluted.
Memberberries
When quality declines, fans speak up. When you call those fans hateful, bigots, racists, phobes....then the fans will eventually just shrug their shoulders and leave.
"Despite pulling out all the stops for its first season" It really didn't. Ahsoka failed to be a show, and felt like a very passionate promo for a future project.
All of these shows, save for maybe Mando would work as movies better than as shows. But of course they have to be shows so disney can get that sweet money outta Disney +
Except it did what the first season of pretty much every show does - establish the playing field.
The problem isn't the show, the problem is expectations. People more and more have the attention span of a gnat and can't stand anymore if someone doesn't get dismembered, their face punched in etc. every five mnutes.
@@ohauss Lmao that's not even close to why the show isn't good. Its not even a good Rebels season let alone a good first season for a show. Writing is shit, even for someone who has all the context needed. Sabine and Ezra finally reuniting felt like a wet noodle. Ezra making it home was underwhelming. The whole time spent in exile on another planet had no original ideas or payoff. Ahsokas flashback ep literally had no meaning. Heras actress was casted just for her ass. Not doing anything with Jacen was criminal. Sabine was not likeable. And every episode felt like 25 minutes of filler. As someone who binges shows like The Crown and The Wire I don't need dismemberment or flashing lights every 5 minutes, Just good story telling. (Also how am I supposed to believe our heroes can survive an orbital bombardment when we have literally seen it decimate cities and planets)
@@hwyg265 Nah they work better as comic books. Everything since Mando 1 felt like concepts rushed to production rather then fully completed stories.
@ItsMeTyler The only thing I disagree with here is the flashback episode. It had a ton of meaning in it. Anakins force ghost literally came back to teach Ahsoka to not be afraid to face her enemies and strike them down. She was too afraid of becoming the next Vader and thats what the point of that whole thing. Anakin just didn't know what her issue was so he led her through her past to figure it out. And when he did, he shows her that she needs to stop being afraid of losing and falling to the dark side. He literally realized what her problem was and said "Is that what this is about?" Then proceeds to fight her as Vader. There's a ton of meaning in that whole sequence, you just need to look for it, which in my opinion is good writing. You shouldn't need to have your hand held and told every little detail. Sometimes subtlety is key.
Hot take: Disney Thrawn is not threatening. We've only see him get his ass kicked every time he shows up. Weve bever seen him win a battle where he was overwhelmed and only used advanced tactics to win
Not even a hot take, just sadly very true. They took the preeminent military tactician and strategist in Star Wars and turned him into a bumbling buffoon who makes the worst mistakes possible at almost every turn.
That would require writers with minds that can create advanced tactical situations.
I just wish they did something akin to the Zahn books. You can let the villain win and still let the heroes do cool stuff. The reason why Vader or palpatine were such menaces was because no one could beat them. Just let the man win and outsmart everyone, you can still kill him off in the end.
Well why did he not close the blast doors before they arrived? Why were they able to use these doors aginst his troops, when time is of the essence?? He lost a valubel assert because of it. I'd say that is poor writing.
It sucks so many people will only know this moronic version of Thrawn. The book version is a top 5 character from any media I've read/watched over the last 40 years.
Because it's a bad show
Just ended badly and had no super cool moments lol
It was both bad AND boring. Why WOULDN'T people stop watching?
TBOBF and Obi Wan were bad but Ahsoka was definitely just mid at best. Hayden and Ray carried this show.
I liked it. Legends is still better.
@@JJJR09
I'd say Ahsoka isn't the worst Disney show. It's above average.
But only because the "average" of these shows is absolute garbage.
The problem isn’t exactly with the shows, it’s the fact that Disney isn’t willing to take any risks. They are stuck with trying to tell stories within the same time period. Disney has 1000’s of years of lore in universe to tell new and fresh stories, but they can’t get away from the almost 70 years that take place in all of the movies. They already have some great stories that they could tell that most of your average fans have never seen with Revan or Malgus, the stories of the Jedi-Sith War, etc. They were given everything they needed to make billions on a silver platter but refuse to use any of it. People in general are tired of reboots and remakes, give us something new.
People were really disappointed with BOBF, Obi Wan, and Mando season 3, so it makes sense that they didn’t feel like giving Disney a fourth shot
Ahsoka is much worse.
@@hansdieter5703lol not by any measure
@@hansdieter5703i argue heavy recency bias and general resentment. Ahsoka felt like a Clone Wars season, some absolute banger episodes and some really mid ones. This has been some of the best Star Wars lore that we have gotten in a while, and while they messed up the Sabine Arc and Thrawn a little bit, there was still a lot to love.
Where it all leads is the main problem. Kennedy is dead set on making sure everything leads to her self-insert. Something we don't want
Unfortunately, it's true. They will never admit it that the sequel trilogy is an absolute dumpster fire and they will do anything to try to make them as relevant as possible which is pathetic, even though J J Abrams literally admit it that the sequel trilogy had no plan which is what we've been saying from the beginning, even the actors and actresses knew those movies were a joke. John Boyega was so infuriated at Disney because they made his character into a joke, Mark Hamill said that he disagreed with the direction that RJ took with his character Luke Skywalker, which should've been a red flag, Daisy Ridley even said that the writers had no idea what they were doing to her character when interviewed with Josh Gad.
And the more they tried to fix them, the worst they get.
Ironic how you complain about Kennedy and her self-insert when the king of stubbornly sticking to a character is the man behind this show himself, Dave Filoni. He will never do anything without Ahsoka and he's tanked the quality of his already middling shows in order to ensure she makes it to the inevitable sequel involving her.
They ALL are an issue and the entire Lucasfilm subsidiary needs to be wiped clean of this disease.
@@scottb3034THANK YOU! Somebody finally said it
- Lets all just face the fact that the quality of writing in Hollywood has been in a precipitous death spiral for about 20 years now. It's only getting worse as the older folks retire, and the writer's rooms are back-filled with younger "writers". We now have story lines written by kids who didn't grow up reading books. Most of them can barely craft a coherent text message or tweet, never mind pen a classic novel.
We have clunky dialogue written by people who grew up in cyberspace and rarely ever step outside to hold actual eye-to-eye conversations. Don't expect any epic sagas to come flowing from attention spans that barely make it through the average Tik-tok video. Don't expect the coddled generation to understand struggle and strife, when the biggest trauma they've ever suffered was someone misgendering them at a coffee shop. In short... don't expect any real character development from those who have none of their own.
Can we stop using Kennedy as a scapegoat for everything and just admit that Dave Filoni isn't the savior of Star Wars as everyone hopes and claims he is? He's just inserting his OC into everything Star Wars related.
For me, the decline totally makes sense, for the following reasons:
1. The aforehand mentioned background knowledge required to understand what's going and to connect with the characters. You always have to keep in mind that major audiences have only seen the movies and might at worst be completely confused about the fact that Anakin somehow had an apprentice because it's never referenced at all. And in order to know all the characters you would have to watch Clone Wars AND Rebels. Ahsoka mad ZERO effort to explain anything. Who is Thrawn? Who is Ezra and why are both missing etc.? The Mandalorian by comparison is far more accessible because you need no extra knowledge to fully enjoy it.
2. Generally weak story and plot holes. Some Examples (spoilers):
- It all starts with finding yet another MacGuffin to an important person/object. There is not even a logical explanation why and how it exists. It's not like Thrawn could have sent a message back home where to pick him up. But disregard that and move on for a second. They send droids to pick it up. Ahsoka interferes. Then the droids self-detonate with a massive explosion which, if successful, would've also ruined the chances for the bad guys of ever finding Thrawn? So a bit stupid, maybe?
- Then the world-between-world stuff. What was the point of it all? Choose life or death? Was Ahsoka suicidal? There was no indication. There is no real lesson. Then she reawakens as Ahsoka the White but isn't any wiser or stronger.
- Super smart strategist Thrawn saying Jedis are dangerous but refusing to send adequate troops to deal with the problem because "let's not waste resources". Really? In the end he just escaped by an inch because he completely understimated the threat while acting like it's all deliberate or not important.
- Sabine struggles over the entire show to use the force but in the final episode she finally manages to pull her lightsaber with some effort. Then 1 minute later she yeets Ezra across half a mile onto the ship with not beating a sweat. Impressive learning curve?
- Ezra escapes the Star Destroyer without explanation and returns to the New Republic. Instead of properly identifying he lands with the enemy ship and full Stormtrooper suit on. He could've been easily shot. Why not take the helmet off beforehand? Because stupid dramatic effect.
3. Slow pacing. The build-up for the grand finale takes so long and then the payoff is so weak. It takes 6 episodes to reveal Thrawn. Remember Rogue One? A 2 hour movie which establishes an ensemble cast with likeable characters, a well-thought out and action-packed story, with a proper conclusion. The viewers time should be appreciated and not wasted with unnecessary filler stuff.
There is much more to complain like the bad fighting scenes, the very convenient plan to use space whales to catch up with Thrawn or the sudden force sensitivity of Sabine, because everyone worth a damn apparently must have special powers nowadays in that universe.
Let's face it, the only reason parts of the show held up was the cameos -meaning mostly shoving Anakin down our throats multiple times. Don't get me wrong, the scenes are well-made but they they make the story only look better on first glance than it really is. I saw meshups of SW reaction channels geeking out over every cameo and thus being completely blind to seeing how bad the rest is. Well all deserve and should demand better content than this.
the night sisters sent morgan visions to find the map but ye disney sucks still i do agree
@@yeetwchybaban yes but who created the map and how? Also if the night sisters can communicate between galaxies (which is yet another crazy new power unseen before) why not directly give directions to pick them up. I cannot get my head around it 😂
Before Ahsoka debuted, they should have done a gritty, walking dead style show where Ezra became the ultimate survivor and Thrawn was losing control of his troops for months or years before he made a deal with the witches. We could have seen a failed mutiny in which stormtroopers fought against becoming undead slaves as they slowly died off and the creation of the dude in the gold mask. THAT would have been a great show. Missed opportunity.
Why is this a surprise to anyone?
It becomes the Sabine show. Thrawn, the most amazing commander in the universe suddenely becomes totally incompetent. Ezra is hiding in a trailer park and literally throwing around clues as to his whereabouts. It becomes the Sabine show. They build up two good characters and then inexplicably blow them apart. The title character is completely upstaged. It becomes the Sabine show.
Definitely agree that Ahsoka was written and played like a minor/supporting character. So Sabine is now Ahsoka’s padawan? Then show us her being a padawan! We got only a sliver of that. As for this becoming the Sabine show, I wil go 50% of the way with you on that and only add that it was and became a Sabine and Ezra show, with Ahsoka - even with the Anakin parts - as a minor plot, and that’s unfortunate because it could have been so much better.
Sabine is rey 2.0 filoni is just falling in line
@@lorenzog7811so true
@@lorenzog7811 I'm not a huge fan of the sequels by any means, but I think there is a strong case for a defence of Rey relative to Sabine.
For me, Rey was a potentially interesting character, but horribly executed. Sabine is a horrible character, perfectly executed. They clearly lost the plot with Rey and the whole sequel trilogy and had no idea what they were doing - whereas with Sabine, they know exactly what they're doing.
And ultimately, for better or worse - Rey is the main character in three movies, whereas Sabine is supposed to be a supporting character. You can't tell me that if you got rid of the name of the show and played it for someone who had no previous knowledge that they wouldn't think that the show was going to be called either "Rebels", "Ghost Squad" or just "Sabine" with one "very special episode" about this Ashoka woman.
I will never forget the feeling walking out of the last Jedi from theaters just scratching my head in confusion. I have never walked out of a movie thinking that was one of the worst things I’ve ever seen but that movie made it happen for me.
It was confusing as hell. I just remember thinking “this is Star Wars. Why don’t I like this? I should definitely like this.”
For me, that was the Force Awakens. I felt like I should be enjoying it a lot more than I was. I thought it was junk, and it just got worse from there. That said, I've enjoyed most of what's been released on TV.
exact same for me. It made me question myself, like, why do I just not like this anymore? Am I simply too old? Ever since my interest for Star Wars has been mild at best. I just check in now and again but dont really care.
For the love of god, Disney, please, just make a brand new set of movies set in the old republic, with entirely new chracters. Its the only way I can see myself engaing properly again.
Agreed
My sister and I looked at each other in disbelief in the theater…
Ahsoka has no stakes, the plot armor is way too strong, even for ships
Thank you for doing a logical critical breakdown of Star Wars. Not being threatened by, women, ethnicity, politics it was just the story and characters. Thank you for doing a great critique and not worried about ideology.
I keep saying that one *big* reason Mando Seasons 1 and 2 were so popular was that we all convinced ourselves that Favreau and Filoni were going to decanonise, or at least ignore, the sequels. We thought people who actually cared about George's canon were back in charge. And when it started to become obvious that the sequels were still on the menu, a lot of people lost faith again and left. The sequels are an anchor around the neck of the franchise.
Sw survived the prequels, it will survive the sequels.
@@Darkness1984I don’t know if it can. Star Wars survived the Prequels because they didn’t affect the legacy of characters that we love. The Sequel Trilogy in the other hand was a complete and utter disaster that destroyed the legacy characters that we’ve grown up with since the 80’s and have really left a bad taste in my mouth that I don’t think could ever be fixed unless those movies were removed from canon.
Boo hoo 😢 lol
@@Darkness1984 Star Wars survived the prequels because they gave future generations cool new stories, worlds, and concepts to explore and latch onto. The Clone Wars, Naboo, Kamino, Geonosis, plentiful Jedi. The sequels have given today's younger generations literally nothing but memes about how lame Star Wars currently is.
@@PhillipeStLeger They made Vader from a bad ass villain into a cry baby bitch who never heard the saying bros before hoes.
The issue with Asohka is that you have to watch the other shows to understand what is happening. Mando didn’t have that issue. People are getting tired of having to watch 98 episodes and 10 movies to understand what they are trying to watch. Thank the MCU for that.
Sabine and Ezra acting was horrible... Plus every time Sabine was fighting even though she won it looked like she was losing 😂😂😂😂
nah the issue is that this show is emotionless, boring and full of holes in the script, but the fact that you have to watch 100 episodes before it is also a big problem
It would take you 27.5 hours to nonstop watch all seasons of rebels. You can finish that in less then a couple weeks factoring in general life stuff. Clone wars on the other hand would take longer, but that story really only pertains to the flash backs dream moment. Plus what is wrong with wanting to watch more of a content that you'd like?
Nah you do not really have to watch all of it, since the series simply puts up Thrawn as the big bad, who threatens to return, and then snails paces it into reality, at least in the next season. It is enough to understand that Thrawn is supposedly a major threat to the galaxy, due to having loyal troops and the only one to be able to rally the scattered imperial people through the galaxy. And they tell you that in some form... All that other meta bullcrap they introduced with the weird inbetween space, is still pretty much unexplained anyways, and even a toddler can understand that there was some unresolved business between Ahsoka, Ezra, Sabine,Hera and Thrawn. You do not need to watch it to understand that much.
I disagree, it’s not like they wrote the characters in Ashoka to actually emulate themselves from the other shows, or even act like older more evolved versions of who they were. They all just turned into “insert grumpy bland stoic character model here” npc’s.
Disney forcing a Sabine jedi storyline and pushing their typical agendas is continuing to hurt them. I'm glad it's happening. All of this is on top of the fact that Thrawn was a fat idiot in this show, and the story didn't make sense. It doesn't take a thesis and a dump truck of copium to see why they are failing to make good shows.
I think the loyalty towards the franchise goes hand in hand with how good the vision is for the franchise. The franchise was at an all-time low when the sequels were done because they were disappointing, made a lot of the old characters worse and limited the potential for new good stories in the future.
When Mandalorian seasons 1 and 2 came out it was restored because it was a good, original story and characters that had a lot of potential. Once book of boba ran that into the ground it immediately died off again because there was once again not something to look forward too since I think we all expected Mandalorian season 3 to not be as good as the first 2 with how book of boba went.
I think this is the "Solo" effect all over again, this time because Ahsoka followed up Mando Season 3. Up until that point people had associated The Mandalorian with reliable quality, and it was such a shock to the system to see how bad Season 3 was that I think many more audiences tuned out for good. Full transparency, I have let my own D+ account expire and I have no intention of renewing it when Skeleton Crew or the Acolyte come out. Just not interested in those shows. I may come back for Andor Season 2 whenever that happens, but for the first time in... ever... I am passing up on new Star Wars content.
That’s dumb.
It didn't help there were 2 years between Mando season 2 and 3 and everyone just lost the hype the season 2 finale had. Then Book of Boba Fett and Kenobi shows happened and everyone lost complete interest. Andor, despite being really good, also suffered from people being tired of the last 2 shows.
Safe to say if they take another 2 or 3 years for the follow up seasons, expect less audience.
The TLJ effect rather, TLJ was bad so nobody saw solo and most star wars products after that were a failure too
@@Ahzuv Yup, I still haven't and never will see Solo, nor will I watch Andor, and I regret what I did watch of Ahsoka.
Episode 6 had the feeling of original Star Wars. There’s hope. Most of the Mandalorian(western) and Andor(dark politics) are shows that work in Star Wars. Ryan Johnson shouldn’t have been given establish characters for a franchise he didn’t get. It was a solid movie that derailed so much. Starting with Solo’s box office and and what seems like an imbalance between suits and creatives.
I just found Andor to be most engaging and digestible both in writing and a breath of fresh air with characters
Low attention span army coming in 3... 2... 1...
Agreed the only decent disney series ia andor and mando season 1 and 2 the rest has been garbage
Where you don't need to have prior knowledge other than to have watched the original trilogy.
Yeah another prison break arc was great...
100% agree. Andor and Rogue One were extremely well-done, and R1 is in a tie with ESB as the best of the movies for me. As for the series, Andor, Mando, and Kenobi (minus the Leia stuff) have been my favorites. I say that about Kenobi because I think there could have been a better story there.
I think it has to do with predictability: For one, we always know the amount of episodes in a season, which why (by episode 7 or 8) one mostly knows where or how the season will end. Mando season 1 was so nice because it was an unknown character that could go anywhere without consequences for the Star Wars universe. That made it unpredictable and some episodes were not too sequenced into a timeline of events
And two, Ahsoka is a figure in a universe where we know how it's going to end in general, because by the time we're in the times of the First Order, there is no Thrawn or Nightsister and Ahsoka or Ezra to be seen. So, how- or whatever is going to happen: it'll be temporarily only. Nothing lasting.
Not surprised. Disney has poisoned Star Wars ... This isn't Star Wars.
I’ve been a Star Wars fan since my dad showed me a new hope back in 1988. I was 6 years old and I was awestruck. I was such a fan that I even defended the prequel films to death. Ep 1 gave us Qui-Gon Jinn, arguably the best Jedi character in all of Star Wars and an incredibly fantastic lightsaber combat with Maul. Ep 2 gave us the battle of Geonosis, a fantastic battle, and episode 3 gave us obi wan vs Anakin. I read everything I could from the expanded universe and what I couldn’t find I desperately looked for it on CZcams. Yeah, the was definitely some very stupid stuff in the expanded universe, but after Disney bought it it’s been a horrible and depressing train wreck.
Maybe it came out later where you live but it came out in 1977, A new hope
I know I was five years old that’s when it came out in United States
@@trevinormandy14520 he says his dad showed him, meaning thats when his dad showed him new hope, not when it came out.
The main problem is that we don't have complete stories. We always only have setups for the future. We need a complete story
This is the issue with Disney Star Wars isn’t it. They rely on mystery and a never ending story to pull people in rather than just conclude good storytelling
@@francoelblanco7849 in videogame we have the concept of "Game as a Service", that is a game where content is added indefinitely until it reaches the End of Service, and you either pay a montly fee for it or microtransactions.
Disney's Star Wars is sort of a "Movies as a service", where new shows and movies are launched constantly to continue a never ending story.
It will never give answers or conclude a character' arc in a satisfactory manner, because they profit from making people come back again and again, in the hopes of eventually get some type of conclusion (that will never happen - unless they lose enough money to justify creating some type of "climax" to attract people again).
“Mystery boxes are everywhere!”
All they had to do was give fans a flawless episode 7 movie. I do appreciate rouge one tho
The MCU shows have the same exact problem. Instead of giving us finales they give us a set-up for the next series or film.
I think their biggest problem is the length and number of episodes. When your whole season is 8 episodes, you shouldn't have episodes that are only 30 or 40 minutes long. You need more than that to really draw people into the story. I would actually rather have one episode that's 80-90 minutes long and have to wait two weeks for the next one to drop than watch a 35-45 minute episode once a week. It feels like Disney is struggling with finding the proper action to story ratio, and favoring action a little too much sometimes, which probably is partially to blame for the shorter runtimes. Andor probably had the least amount of action of all the disney series so far and I think it's the one that's turned out the best.
That is always have been the problem of American series! The episodes are always too short. I watch a lot of Korean series and those episodes are always at least 60 minutes.
if anything those episodes were already to long with a lot of filler and bad pacing. This show could have been 5 tight episodes instead of 8 meandering ones. Very little actually happened between the many unmotivated action sequences that served little to no story purpose and the things that did happen rarely made a lot of sense.
An 80-90min episode is also way too long. I think the issue is the show doesn't use the storytelling format of a tv show.
@@memento81A little more exposition and character building would have helped, which takes time. Anyone watching this without having seen the cartoons it is based on, is left wondering: who the hell are all these people and why should I care? A good story doesn’t overwhelm you, it draws you in slowly. For instance: Andor did a great job with that.
Yet it works for everything else like One Piece?
Me personally I just feel like ahsoka was in a good place towards the end of clone wars. And I think rebels took things a little far with her character. It kept her grounded with her almost dying to Vader.
But then disney just went off the rails with the strong woman energy, after Ezra saved her. They made her more prime than she was in the fall of mandalore. Which was like the height of the republic era conflict.
Nothing that she encounters in the imperial era should be more challenging than anything she’s faced in the past, save for Vader.
But they feel the need to throw in these sith like characters just for her to smack around and make her look big.
REBELS DIDNT REALLY DO THAT. REBELS HAS MORE PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE WITH THRAWN THAN AHSOKA DOES.
It’s not like thrawns acting or voice is any different, but his lines carry less substance. Thrawn is so much more interesting in rebels. Showing his appreciation for art, and martial arts, it gives a much broader view of thrawns character as an admiral. Also they showcase his perfect memory as a chiss far better in rebels, with his recollection of local customs, in the various areas the rebels flee to.
My whole thing about the last two episodes was how...underwhelming everything seemed. As a Rebels fan, I was so excited to finally see what happened to Ezra. Then, he was just, Bleh. Not the same charismatic, passionate, driven freedom-figher from Rebels. I would've expected him and Thrawn to continuously antagonize eachother. I don't know, to me there was just a huge opportunity to have some really cool stuff happen. I would probably bet that any casual viewer had this built up hype of Ezra and then were sorely disappointed.
Ezra should have been upset with Sabine. He sacrificed ten years of his life to keep Thrawn away. Even if you think Sabine did the right thing he shouldn’t. Instead of a jaded character, it’s like he hasn’t changed at all. Ten years are a really long time. Especially when you are fighting for your life. They don’t act like real people.
The actor who played Ezra was perfect the problem was he barely got a chance to do anything
@@DougDimmaDingusbut Sabine never tells Ezra what she did to be able to come there (at least not that I can remember). I remember that he asks her and she avoids to answer.
You know there are a lot of scenarios that made that outcome possible. So, there is no way that Ezra can deduce that Sabine helped them to return.
Still, I feel that a good point of tension could have been Ezra listening Ahsoka and Sabine talking about it and being mad at her. You have a point that the creation of that conflict would have been interesting and see the characters in a more emotional and nuanced light.
Sabine turned a good deal of viewers away from the show. Idk why they made Sabine do such obviously stupid things, but there were no consequences for any of it. She's essentially a toddler wrecking the house and Ahsoka is the parent. It doesn't play well when Sabine should be older and know better.
She is older than Hera was in Rebels, but she is still acting like the young teen that her character was in Rebels, arguably even more immature. Then her suddenly being a Jedi… force sensitive would make sense but they made her way overpowered.
@@geoffreyc1027Def wasnt overpowered....she barely did anything with the force, ppl acting like she used force lightning or something
Sabine has always been an unlikable character, but also Dave Feloni is known for making characters unlikable in an effort to later demonstrate character progression and or growth. The problem is that they start off the series with them having issues with each other without any explanation of how, when and why that happen doesnt help. To then later explain what happened, backward story telling doesnt always work and especially in this case when this series has 0 back story on all these characters.
@geoffreyc1027 She's not older than Hera. In Rebels, Sabine is 16, and Hera is well into her twenties. I'm not sure where you pulled that out off. And it's called character development. In Rebels Kanan was the one who said the Force resides in all living things BUT you have to he OPEN to it. Jesus, all she did was use telekinesis, an ability a youngling can do. It does not decades of training to pull a lightsaber to you or use force push. These abilities are even beginner abilities in all Star Wars games.
@@nickstanton6021 Sabine was shown unable to use the force to lift objects in training with Ahsoka on the ship. She didn't even bother to try to do anything more than swing a lightsaber and even then she largely favored blasters for most of the rest of the series. Then, in the last episode, she is being choked / beaten by a bad guy with her lightsaber on the ground several feet away and with considerable effort and under significant urgency & stress, she manages to force pull the lightsaber into her hand. Now... If that had been all she did, it would have made a lot of sense. She struggled for weeks in training, barely making anything move at all... but finally when the chips were down, she had her moment to break through. Cool. But in essentially the next scene, she and Ezra are standing atop this massive tower as Thrawn's Star Destroyer is finally flying away and they need to get on the ship or be stranded on the planet. She tells Ezra to jump. He (correctly) says he'll never make the jump and she tells him she'll force push him up there. He's skeptical, but he does it and she does manage to catch him midair and float him up the rest of the way to grab the ship. Seriously?
She BARELY made a lightsaber fly to her hand in the previous scene. And now she can use the force to grab another jedi in midair and float him up hundreds of feet? No. She didn't even really get training in Rebels either. She gets some lightsaber training to be able to use the darksaber, that's it. And she's explicitly told that she really has no force sensitivity, so she's not allowed to use real lightsabers for a while.
The way Rosario moved during fights was laughable omg
I feel like Star Wars has become something without any risk. As someone who watched clone wars as a kid, and rebels even though it is absolutely significantly worse, I found it pretty simple to understand and enjoy the characters present. Hera didn’t need to be in this show. I don’t know who the actress was who played her but she did fine, that’s not the issue. The issue in my mind is not the cheesy Disney dialogue, or the possibly less recognizable cast of characters. Instead, its just too tied in to the previous series. A lot of the cool stuff about the early parts of the series felt like rebels 2.0, not something new. The story isn’t changing- the reason mando worked is because the first season especially was mostly separated from previously established concepts.
The problem is that they didnt follow the most interesting storyline of the show. Baylen was the interesting character, and they did nothing with him.
And with the actor passing away, we will never get a decent conclusion to his story-arc
I mean they literally did
The show had an interesting story line? Lol it had more plot holes than the sequels.
What killed the show for me was basically the Sabine crap.
1. Her force abilities. Not only was it unnecessary for her character, but she was way too powerful.
2. Sabine getting stabbed by a lightsaber and surviving.
3. Sabine making Ezra look stupid or useless every time they shared the screen together.
I don’t know, at this point knowing everything is gonna end with Jake Skywalker and Rey Palpatine kind of kills any excitement going forward. They need to soft reboot. They have the world between worlds, they can easily do it then use Lucas’s treatment for a new sequel trilogy.
The fact that she is clearly intended to be not just the star of the show, but the burning, blinding superstar of the show, only to be temporarily distracted from by Hera cameos. Then she has an absurd story arc. Ashoka takes her on as an apprentice. Why? Why would she do this when she displays no aptitude whatsoever and is also a Mandalorian? It makes zero sense and isn't explained.
However, the greatest crime is that Sabine is made into a horrible, horrible character, and the worse she behaves, the more she is rewarded by the writers. She single-handedly causes a galactic level catastrophe by stealing the star map, getting it taken from her and then WILLINGLY handing it over. She is in effect possibly the greatest traitor in the entire Star Wars universe surpassing even Anakin. And almost no reference is made to this, she is not just forgiven, but encouraged by her mentor and peers and becomes increasingly powerful as a result.
Yep the fact that she can get Jedi abilities so easily undermines the uniqueness of being a Jedi in that world.
@@garrym5682 It’s not just her. Hera directly disobeys orders and gets some of her squad killed and gets a slap on the wrist. Clone wars had episodes of Ashoka learning about the consequences of disobeying orders. She makes decisions that not only get her squad killed but Admiral Yularen in critical condition, or when disobeys Obi wan in another arc and must spend time on guard duty away from the frontlines. Hell, even in the sequel trilogy Poe disobeys orders and accomplishes way more and he gets demoted.
It’s all about Sabine
Here comes down to storytelling they get us to watch the first few episodes and then the storytelling and writing fall right off the table with the shows. I really hope they don't do knights of the Old Republic until they could prove they can actually know how to write a complete story😢
The board and executive team at Disney are equivalent to young children playing with antique china and art works with abandon and lack of reverence. In regards to their IP.
Bad company with bad management.
Nothing happened in this season except both parties trading places with each other. This whole season was a massive waste of time to set up season 2. It’s definitely a “things to come are more important than the present”, which will always lead to failures.
Yeah, the show was all setup for other things and the one thing that happened was the one thing we knew was going to happen anyway. Plenty of stuff with potential to be good in the future, but not exactly a riveting watch now
Sabine didn’t help and how we didn’t get a Luke appearance. Ahsoka absolutely should have informed him and that would have been enough. Anakin was the high point and the last 5 seconds of the finale.
Take a guess as to who's fault that is, basically saying, "Luke man bad."
Shitleen Shilledy (KK).
@McFrozenNuggets I hate to break it to you but just because something is low quality it doesn't mean its Kathleen Kennedy's fault
everytime sabine was on screen I literally fell asleep . Worst character in any show I've ever watched in my pathetic 31 years of life.
@@VoteSaxon99 Who else can we lay the blame on when it comes to ANYTHING that ends up being shit coming out of Lucasfilm???
@@VoteSaxon99 She’s at the helm dude. The ship goes where she steers it.
I mean they’ve pushed us all away, 7 or 8 years ago I was a star war fanatic, I read every book, drew art of my favorite characters like Mara jade and thrawn and that fucking 8 lightsaber dude from one of the yuuzaan vong books with Luke and Mara…..
but I don’t care anymore, Disney “killed the vibe” for lack of a better term.. I feel like the old universe was more interesting and that this new Disney universe is half baked, often non-consistent, and even lore breaking fairly often.
I just wish they had stuck with the universe that’s already existed when they bought it
So let's take this from the point of view of Sabine: she is (in this show) a character that did everything she wanted, and she got away with ALL OF IT. I mean: she risked her master and the whole galaxy to get to Ezra, and she did get to him. And on top of that, she got in contact with the Force. And then, her master forgave her. Win, win, win. No consequence. What a nice character for the viewership! I would like to get away with whatever I want like Sabine, with no consequences whatsoever. So lame. She was x100 better in Rebels.
I mean to be fair I feel like getting stranded yourself in an entirely new galaxy is a pretty big consequence
Dude she’s literally stranded on another galaxy. Also Ezra asked Sabine to bring him back. It’s a shitty choice for him to shove into her lap. Save him or the galaxy.
They act so happy to see each other when they get back together but forgot 3 X-Wing pilots are dead because of Sabines actions. Thrawn is now returning to kill much more people. One of the most powerful jedi is stranded on a planet. So yeah all the death that comes next is on Sabine.
Sabinne shouldn't be in the Show
Remember when Hera disobeyed orders, took three pilots and got them killed, and then was put on trial for her actions and a character off screen said nah it's okay we forgive you?
After the burning dumpster fires that were kenobi and book of boba fett, I wonder how many people actually gave Ashoka a fair chance? 🤔
i did, more cuz ahsoka is my fav star wars character (and i watch every sw show anyway)
I didn’t.I’ll admit it. After Kenobi and Andor(yes I didn’t like Andor) I was pretty much done with Disney Star Wars. Didn’t even bother to watch Mando Season 3 or Ahsoka. And I loved Clone Wars and Rebels. I’ve basically become disillusioned with Star Wars, Marvel and Disney in general. I’ve just stopped caring about this stuff. And I never thought I would ever feel that way about Marvel and Star Wars.
i myself am done with star wars.....and i refuse to watch anything that has the disney name tagged along with it....srry but they have destroyed too much of my childhood.....and i refuse to let them do it any more
We all did, but for some reason the characters in the show didnt resonate with me the way the ones in Rebels did. Maybe it was the actors, who knows.
Kenobi was unironically better than Ahsoka.
Ashoka show should bring in writers from “clone wars” . Find a way to bring in viewers that are less invested in the animated shows. This could be done with better writing. Clear stakes.
The characters do not feel like the same ones from rebels. Are you telling me after all the years Ezra spent on that planet he didn’t sense what balen senses or explore and find the statue of the father or steal a ship and ride a space whale home? He was curious, headstrong, adventurous. Story would have been better if he got home in his own and warned the others. Sabine is older yet she is somehow less mature? Running away from a silly award or celebration? Better ways to show the pain or sense of failure she feels than her running away on her bike. To her tree house. Idk. There is/was tons of potential in the show’s current story. Better writing would make a huge difference. Better fight choreography.
Everyone in Ahsoka episode 1 had a stink face on. Also, I'm tired of being told how powerful someone is. Or how heroic they are. I feel like the writing isn't about crafting interesting, character driven narratives. It all feels like sidebar storytelling. Like it's not the real story yet. Also, it feels like these are short films stretched into 8 hours of flat faced conversations in front of blue screens.
Ahsoka is my favorite character and I couldn’t even make it past the 2nd episode.
Honestly I don't think Dawson was that great for the role in hindsight. Maybe it was her direction, cause I thought it would be better.
Yeah I didn't even finish the season... And Ahsoka was my favorite as well.
@@andybaker7558 I can't put all the blame on her, but at the same time, things like the saber battles show she either wasn't interested in the role or she wasn't given a chance to look like a powerful fighter. The fights were lazy, slow, silly, and just not that fun to watch when compared to lightsaber battles we've seen in the past.
Her primary character moments were crossing her arms and turning to glance at people.
@@HumanPerson_final She's annoying to watch for sure. I dug her in that episode in the Mandalorian .. so I'm thinking it was the direction.
Then you missed the parts where she came into the character. There IS an arc there that develops the reasoning behind her feeling "off" from the old Ahsoka and in the end it makes her performance
What annoyed me the most, beyond Dawson’s deadpan acting, was the show never addressed what happened after Ezra and Thrawn arrived in the new galaxy. Is Ezra the reason so many of Thrawn’s troops are dead? Did Ezra keep fighting Thrawn in a one man guerrilla war? Did he stop once Thrawn partnered with the night sisters? How is Ezra even alive after that happened? Did Thrawn seriously need Sabine to track down Ezra?
And then my biggest gripe is that most of the actors did not come close to imbuing their characters with the life their animated counterparts had. Such a waste in my opinion. I think I’ll just go back and rewatch Rebels to cleanse my pallet of this show.
Yea she was beyond boring and full...she's gotta go
Ezra escaped Thrawn's star destroyer years ago the same way he did in the finale... horrible writing.
Leaves you asking question about alot of stuff, how did ezra escape the star ship, how did he find the repuplic fleet. Why is nobody pissed at Sabine for giving the ball to Balin and screwing over everyone for ezra, who she then to ditched to stay with Ashoka. Why did ezra not use his force powers against the dark troopers after only using his powers an episode earlier? I found this show tough to watch was really boring with not alot happening and alot of stupid situations that made no sense.
@@kkeith51 only way to board a government ship is confirming ID… idk why Ezra & Co. acted like it was a surprise
I think ahsoka actor is kind of caca, but ezra is pretty good
I agree with you there. What’s hilarious is that the sequels were paced so fast that it was hard to keep up. The Disney shows suffer from the opposite problem. The pace is so slow I tend to fall asleep or just lose interest! The writing isn’t good enough for it to be this slow paced.
I remember watching the sequels and not knowing what I thought of them right away because I had to go sit in a dark room and think about what I watched because it happened so fast. I’ll never forget Ep.8 I left being like, “what did I just watch?” And then as I thought about it over the next couple of days I got so angry at it!
Anyways… I’m glad I grew up with 4-6 and got to experience the prequels in theatre.
I wish there was a way to combine aspects of Expanded Universe and Disney canon. EU had really solid stories, but it wasn't perfect and some things weren't great, but most were really good. Disney canon, despite having a lot of train wrecks, actually did have some interesting stories here and there in the forms of books, shows ect. Not all of it was garbage.
Ahsoka started off pretty strong, but ended flat. I felt like I could have had another 3 or 4 episodes to go deeper into the story. I watched with my wife and I did have to go back to about five key episodes of Clone Wars, Rebels, and even one Mando episodes to give a primer to the show. Fundamental things like who is Ezra? Who is Thrawn? What kind of alien is this girl from Sky High playing? Where did her kid come from? It is unfortunate, that Ahsoka's demographic is so niche. I agree Dave needs to somehow tie it back to the more familiar to gain a wider audience. He also needs to have an air tight story with no logic loop holes or errors. I think audiences these days are pretty savvy in that regard.
Indeed Lucas got away like a bandit when it came to logic loopholes in A New Hope.
They couldn't even fill the 8 extremely short episodes they had.
Disney lacks storytellers 😒
If it was old disney then it will be good but current disney is A TOTAL FUCKING SHIT
And people who can bring proper characterizations on the screen
It's because of the fans. People like Tony Gilroy are able to tell good stories because they're not overly influenced by the lore. Whereas people like Dave Filoni, even tho they understand and appreciate the lore, can't make stories as well because they are staying inside the box
@@jameshayse1903 Filoni doesn't give two fucks about any lore he didn't introduce to the franchise.
But they have plenty dei officers instead
what is the song in the background? it's really good, but Shazam doesnt pick it up because the video doesnt really have any parts without talking, very tight editing.
Worst Thing was that despite Thrawn acts always confident and controlled like his Arms on his Back and talking slowly, you could expect a Menace of a Villain but instead he fails in everything by making stoopid Choices and he sacrifised all his People for literally nothing !
In the End he didn't succede, he just escaped !
There are a lot times Ahoska feels low budget with the way some scenes are handled. A big factor for feeling low budget sometimes is feeling of SIZE, either in a city, crowd of people or even a space battle. The story is just OK, the execution is just OK. its just an OK TV shows. As for acting performance that too is just OK we dont really get any moment of extreme expression like fear, anger, elation.
Star Wars for me is all about spectacle and I just don't think these tiny TV budgets can deliver that.
It’s too serious and Jedi like. With no emotion
@@goaliepro1996 serious? How? Sabine continuously shits the bed on multiple occasions and no one calls her out on it.
@@zd12101 Andor was pretty good
It's the dome the magic dome they use for every background it's so noticeable
The main problem with Ahsoka’s first season finale is that it failed to answer anything. It’s one thing to tease things about future shows, but the ending should have answered some questions about what’s happening. We know nothing of Thrawn’s plans outside of escaping. We know nothing about Baylan’s goal. We know nothing about Shin’s goal. Why is Ahsoka happy about being stuck? Is she thinking of a way to get back or is she happy to just stay on Peridia? The story may have moved forward, but we don’t know what it’s moving forwards TO. Shows that don’t answer any questions eventually end up frustrating viewers. This season should have been at least 13 shows, covering things in more depth. Eight simply wasn’t enough.
It also doesn't help that ezra and sabine are kinda wasted in ahsoka
Truth. Finale was entertaining but a let down due to loose ends.
Very fair points, especially with Shin and Baylan. We have some slight context for Baylan, possibly hinting at Abeloth, but no real answers for either of them. As for Ahsoka and Sabine, they have no idea if someone will ever find them so they’ve made peace with that. Following Sabine, however, I hate that the force just “clicked” for her and now she can use it as effectively as a Jedi. It would’ve been nice if she could do it but only such a small amount such as slightly moving a cup.
As much as I liked this show, it was really just a build up for Heir to the Empire
@@firefatesgaming1855I wouldn’t say wasted, they arent just tossed in like the Og cast in the sequels, but definitely very underutilized. Ezra had some cool moments in the last episode but the stakes just were not there for what it should be. I feel like they don’t get that just seeing the characters on screen isn’t story - thats an intro. Whether the characters existed in Live action or not. I don’t think the characters were wasted, more that the story felt like it didn’t progress to where it needed. Unlike the Obi Wan show, Ahsoka felt short and like it needed to go for like eight more episodes to be able to get all the story beats across effectively.
@@GTAfan421 they didn't have the emotions I was expecting.. ezra was spot on but .. Sabine was kinda disappointing.
How they write the ghost crew in this show. Felt kinda flat
This same phenomenon seems to be happening to World of Warcraft. The latest expansion is actually really good, much better than what has been around for the last 6 years but people are just not coming back to the game because they have been burned for so many years.
Even if they build something new and great they are building it on a pile of rubbish and the smell just wont go away.
Personally I was turned off by the very first episode where Ahsoka found an ancient map that leads to Thrawns current location. It didn't make sense when they did that in Rise of Skywalker, and it doesn't make sense here.
true
I agree with this very much. So much disappointment DOES lead to being dissolutioned . I’ve lost faith in them making what Star Wars was. Yes I know this isn’t for all people. But a large number do feel similar. You hit so many points on why.
The Ahsoka show was objectively a bad show. I still feel like the remaining Disney Star Wars fans are downplaying how much the Star Wars fan base has fallen. Disney has made Star Wars go from an Beyond A-list franchise to a C-list at best… and the numbers prove it. The fan base used to be 10x+ what it is now… and rightly so. Disney killed Star Wars and it’s an objective fact… as much as I hate to say it.
@@starwarstairique Exactly, a lot of pathetic babies refuse to admit so, pretending that "we" hate Star Wars, when in actuality we love Star Wars so much we refuse to watch their pretend star wars crap. I would spend HOURS a day as a kid and adult STUDYING Star Wars, reading the Wookiepedia, watching videos like from this guy, now I rarely even watch a Star Wars video. I don't give a f***ing sh*t about Star Wars now, Star Wars Legends is the ONLY Star Wars. And until Disney Star Wars is erased from Canon, there will be many of us never returning to watch.
Hell, I write SWTOR fanfiction because I know nothing from that era will be made ever again.
@@SpottedHares And then there are fans like you. That makes it worse. Congrats.
@@TheTimelessOne26 I don’t even need to respond to him. You did it simply and easily 🤙🏽 100% facts my guy.
The problem with multiple SW shows happening in the same timeline is that if the plot tries to become too grand scheme, as in this case with Thrawn’s ‘return of the empire’ threat, that you end up with conflicting plot points. Example, Ahsoka found the map to thrawn and thinks he’s a threat to the empire. Based on what we saw in the book of boba fett, her first instinct is to go ask Luke and his crew for help since they’re experienced in taking down the empire, not seek a failed Jedi project in Sabine who she’s had a rough history with. The entire plot felt forced into accommodate the rebels characters and it just didn’t feel authentic
After refusing to train Grogu, while looking over Sabine is to old and Jacen is RIGHT There
THANK YOU. They have to awkwardly avoid that elephant in the room to FORCE Sabine and the rest into this. In reality the Rebel characters are actually mostly irrelevant to this. This whole show was contrived
@majorrenegade1634 NO Filoni confirmed the timeline, she turned Grogu down because of what training someone with attachments can do to the the of US, I rewatched the scene today with captions on she absolutely says it...admitting it in dialog but I also found Filoni AND Rosario Dawson references too it's over the discussion is over....in fact I found reference to where Baylan isn't a Sith or even fallen Jedi, instead he is a survivor of Order 66 ( again making yoda a liar ) tjat is actually trying to do what HE thinks is right Ala Qui-Gon....its why he upheld his promise to Sabine not to harm her and reunite AND if you go back he starts NO fights he is always a bit demoralized when he had to fight...so hell HE is a Jedi Master of lineage that knew Anakin and also a survivor of order 66, it's OUT OF CONTROL THE OT cannon destroying its doing being placed in this timeline....
It actually breaks ST Canon as well, because there is an entire movie devoted to being the last Jedi and Luke was not even then lol....Filoni even said Ahsoka might be around during that time period and I predict it now if a new Rey movie IS made....Absolutely 💯 Ahsoka is alive and will be in it....
Yep, I'm intermediate with star wars lore/shows and have watched everything (but not the type to rewatch and refresh my memory) and even I'm kinda lost on Ahsoka.
It's becoming advanced star wars and its only natural it doesn't appeal to everyone. Some might have been like me but instead of pushing ahead, they might have just stopped cause its too "aloof" and all over the place since they can't follow the story and know the lore
@Devilishlybenevolent and ALL they need is Luke-Jedi Prime searching for artifacts and force sensitives with some adversaries along the way...would eat it up...
Disney has more or less killed Star Wars...
I think you hit the nail on the head. I was excited for Disney Star wars when the first movie came out. After the disappointment from the last Jedi and rise of Skywalker, however, and then the absolute abysmal shows they produced like book of boba and obi wan I totally gave up on this franchise.
Ray Stevensons death will really hurt this series imo. His acting and character was one of the highlights of the show.
No it won't because he was basically going nowhere anyways. I am as sad about his loss, but his acting was not spectacular in this series, because his character was bland and most of the time he simply stood around doing nothing, like a lapdog to either Thrawn or the witch. He made what he could out of it but this was almost impossible to salvage. This so far is the slowest star wars series I ever watched, and Andor was already pretty slow, but opposite to this, everything in that series had gravitas. This series right here has zero. Even the moment Thrawn actually got to get away felt hollow and underwhelming.
I agree. I loved the way he portrayed his character. I just wish they gave him more screen time. I wasn't a fan of Shin personally. I thought she was shallow af
Please. Ray barely did or said a thing.
He was totally cucked in this show for WAMAN!!!!
You made a typo, he was the ONLY highlight I think you meant.
@@dcmastermindfirst9418 lol found the insecure cuck
Ashoka character was completely different than the clone wars. She was always happy and never shut up. This Ashoka, she was never happy and barely talked.
I agree but it’s been some time since then and I imagine the clone wars crushed her spirit. It’s pretty congruent with where they had left her don’t ya think?
But yea I feel like the old Ashoka should “slip out” every once and a while when among friends.
Honestly it would be extremely weird if a 45 year old Ashoka was still chatty and happy all the time like she was before. Even the final season of The Clone Wars portrayed her as a much more serious then she was before. It’s called growing up.
@pierreon00 You're referencing the Season 1-6 Padawan Ahsoka (note spelling). Season 7 Rogue Ahsoka (after leaving the Jedi) was much more like we see in the Ahsoka series. The Jedi broke her happy-go-lucky spirit... and we see that.
You know she was a teenager in the Clone Wars right, and then she got a cold taste of the real world at the end. Then she aged like 25 years.
@@purplemicrodot58 Is it me or are there a lot of "fans" that act like they don't know what happened?
For what it's worth, I actually enjoyed Ashoka Season1 and I hope they do a Season 2. With that said, I stopped watching Ashoka about halfway through but promised to maintain my Disney+ subscription and finish watching it. I'm just flat out getting burnt out on Marvel and Star Wars shows and movies. We used to have to wait years between these films to see what happens next, and now we barely have to wait 6mos to a year till a new Marvel or SW entry is made. I plan on buying the Mandalorian Blu-ray box set when it comes out and I will definitely buy the Ashoka Season 1 Blu-ray should it come out as well. It's just right now... I'm suffering from Marvel and SW fatigue.
Iv'e always wanted a TV show based on the old books where Luke goes to the dark side, i think it would make such an interesting story and character arc
Honestly, binge watching rebels made me wish I just watched Ahsoka without Rebels at all. In rebels the characters had charisma and you can sense each person’s personality and see their growth. This show felt like a redo of each character the way they all just cross their arms and barely express anything. Each episode had at least 20 minutes of characters just blankly staring at each other, the fights were poorly choreographed outside of Hayden, and the early episodes didn’t make sense from a plot standpoint, so as a result the last two episodes had no payoff to show us
There were things that I really liked about Ashoka. My big issue was how it ended. It felt more like a mid-season finale than a full season finale
I think that I agree with your take the most. My wife and I were wondering how storylines were going to be wrapped up because the pacing was so off. I don’t mind Dawson’s take on Ashoka, and the two “ronin” dark Jedi (or whatever we’re calling them) were genuinely interesting! I didn’t feel like they needed to leave the galaxy, but the night sisters reemergence was cool. It all just draaaaaged though. Filoni seems hamstrung by the brevity of the season, and the plotting just…oof. It felt, like you said, like a mid season finale. Which was disappointing, doubly so given the loss of Ray Stevenson.
It dropped in viewership because it was a show that was entirely dependent on cameos and fan service. Rather than good writing like Andor or Mandalorian season one
They totally changed Ashoka and Sabine. Ashoka crossing her arms and staring into the distance doesn't make wise, it makes her boring, unlike in Clone Wars and Rebels. They changed her personality. Sabine becoming a jedi wannabe made no sense, she was a Mando warrior. Baylon and Shin were great.
I don’t think it was ever fair to compare the kind of audience of Ahsoka to that of Mando. Especially season 3 of Mando, considering it had two previous seasons. But with a show like Ahsoka that without homework becomes increasingly more confusing, it makes sense for people to drop off. Not mention people who refuse to take animation seriously.
Yeah I definitely wasn’t expecting to it to rely that heavily on rebels or rather thought it would do more to recap it so it would make sense to the casual viewer. Glad I hooked my wife into a rebels marathon before we took on ahsoka.
Mando only appealed to a very fanatical group….at first. Then it gained insane popularity with casual viewers. Ahsoka had an opportunity to do that, but it didn’t.
BS. Ahsoka had background history. Mando had NONE yet did ok. Disney has made Star Wars into a sidenote instead of an event.
That is why I’m saying it didn’t blow up like Mando. Ahsoka is extremely rich in lore and is only in its first season. Mando had no “homework”, it was just a cool character they showcased well in advertising and in its first 2 seasons. Ahsoka plays on the fact she’s an established character but to a lot of people that means nothing. Another additive would be the downward trajectory of the Star Wars Brand as a whole
@@burtronvidz7335 Ah! I see your point now and I cannot disagree with it. Thanks for clarifying.
For me I think the major issue is that it was meant to be this big thing about reconnecting with finding and saving Ezra, that was a major plot point, but if you haven't watched the cartoons then you don't know who he is and don't really care. Their reunion doesn't really have any emotional weight. Casual fans would be generally more interested in Ahsoka as a character and seeing her and that relationship with Anakin as a reference to a character everyone knows. Instead a lot of the show felt like the Sabine show featuring Ahsoka, and for me Sabine is not interesting as a character. I feel like I've seen that exact character type too many times.
After the second season of bad batch (which I consider to be the last okay Disney content) I had a major falling out with everything Disney. The only thing Disney is capable of at this point is making content that I don’t want to watch. I hope they turn things around, but I don’t think they will ever make anything worth watching again.
Sad but true 😢
The Mandalorian was a success because it was a side project that Disney had little interest at the time.
A side project by F&F.
Main line Star Wars starts bombing and Mandalorian rating are good so....here comes the corporate types to jump on the band wagon and interfere.
It's one of the greatest blunders in business history, a beloved franchise that's was money printing machine. Now you can't give it away.
The fact that management still has there jobs after almost a decade of failure is madness.
*Overinflating the importance of Ahsoka as a central part of the Star Wars Universe whilst devaluing Luke ~*
No.
Over obsessing her in stories.
I learnt more about Ahsoka and how she thinks in Tales of the Jedi than I did on the whole show…
I think the problem with Star Wars is that it's too obvious that everything is referencing the 6 main movies.
Everything is fan service, even the cartoons people praise. They reference them but don't have the same quality music or same quality storytelling or special effects.
If you reference something that is much better than what you're creating in more than one category.
It's going to appear cheap. But not only does the star wars fan service stuff appear cheap, they've managed to make the stories opposite of good. When it's glaringly obvious to people that aren't paid to write stories how to improve on a story, then you know it's bad. The people creating these tv series and cartoons are amateurs, they only survive on the legacy of the thing that was successful in the past.
Because of fanatical fans.
I felt like ahsoka is some sort of step towards a stronger show which is very sad since Ahsoka could've really been expanded upon as a lot of people like Ahsoka. However, if we get a live action show about Thrawn and they showcase his pure genius in live action, I'd watch that anyday over the current Ahsoka. It was very slowpaced in my opinion towards the later episodes with a pretty bad ending (my opinion at least). So yeah, I think the show is just some sort of transition to a better show, but I dislike that they did Ahsoka show dirty like this
The young lady who played a young Ahsoka did pretty good to me. Better than Rosario imo. That and Hayden returning in episode 5 were the best thing in the entire season.
Which makes it a really bad season overall then, if the best thing was like 20 seconds of flashback lol
What a clown statement
agreed
Young Ahsoka, had her spunk and personality. Dawson's Ashoka was...how do you say it...BORING!
2 hour movie turned into a TV show. With no new plots.
When the show started, I'd assumed it would pick up right where the series "Rebels" left off - with the story picking up at some point after the epilogue scene. Instead, as we were to discover, the started quite a way before that scene and it took over two whole episodes (a quarter of the full story) to get us just to that moment where the adventure was starting to get going. For me, this felt like a lot of padding. Given what we know of Thrawn from the extended universe (i.e. that he's a significant threat), I thought "I really hope the season 1 finale isn't just that they find Thrawn but he escapes, leaving them trapped so he has time to build up his forces before they return. And fast forward to episode 8 and that's exactly what happened. I didn't need 8 episodes to get to a plot finale I could have written myself in 2-3 episodes.
I really don't want season 2 to be lots of padded, slow-moving Ahsoka/Sabine character-building scenes (full of sweeping vistas, risingly emotional music and characters standing around smiling benignly), before we get home to discover lots of much more interesting stuff (that we didn't see onscreen) has happened in the meantime, and they only find out about it via in info-dump from Hera. I also don't fancy the idea of seeing scenes of Ezra and Hera battling a New Republic that has gone conveniently stupid just to fit the contrivances of the sequel trilogy.
Lmao I think you’re a little bit confused. That part by the mural at the end of Rebels actually took place before the Ahsoka show. That’s when Ahsoka first began to train Sabin as a Jedi. The scene where they first meet in the Ahsoka show is 8 years after the ending scene in Rebels. So it was never intended to be “catching up” to the ending of Rebels.
@@nandoman4769they unveiled the mural in Episode 1 of Ahsoka so how could the ending scene of rebels take place before the Ahsoka show?
It was a shot by shot recreation of the scene with the only change being Ahsoka’s outfit so I think it is pretty clear they are meant to be the same scene.
mando does apply to more fans now, but when it was new no one knew about mandlorians
What's the music playing in the background?
It's because all doors lead to the mess of the sequel trilogy. No matter how good the Ahsoka show is in the back of your mind is well damn I know Thrawn doesn't do that much damage cause he isn't in the sequels nor even mentioned once. Then they are constantly trying to align with them like making the new republic a bunch of idiots.
Interesting to view the comments that people really enjoyed Andor. I do get that. That was invested more to the story itself, and literally nothing else. The only way to bring all star wars fans back in together would be to make Lucasfilm independent, make Darth Maul come back along with the original characters (Luke, Han, Leia with fakefaces) and focus on a great story.
Maybe it's because they crafted a terrible narrative with unlikeable, dull characters whose only character trait is crossing their arms and sighing? Ezra was lifeless, Sabine was insufferable, Ahsoka herself was lifeless and dull to watch in combat, Thrawn was so terribly written it's ridiculous and Hera was useless overall alongside being dull. No one showed any emotions. Ezra and Sabine finally reuniting? A slow hug and a nod of the head with 'hey'. Hera and Ezra? It cuts away after Ezra just says 'hey'.
I'm an older fan and even though I wasn't the biggest fan of Sabine being a jedi, overall, I was ok with the storyline. Ahsoka herself, I LOVED. Great actress choice and she did the role justice
lmfao she was about as grey and bland of a character as you could be, it was an injustice to star wars and the character, stop simping nerd
Great actress choice, but no, the story was not good in any way. Terrible plot and story, and Sabine is an absolute terrible character in the show.
Blackwashed… lol.
Rosario Dawson is a good actress, but she basically played Henry Cavill playing Geralt of Rivera playing Ashoka Tano.
I was extremely scared that Sabine suddenly discovered a deep connection to the force
I definitely agree with the critique that the show seemed to be made exclusively for fans of Star Wars Rebels. Take that final shot of statues of The Ones. I was absolutely losing it, but my wife was just confused. Once I explained the reference and all the visual setup for the next season that was crammed into that one shot, she thought it was really cool. Now she's super excited to see what's next. If she didn't know someone like me, I think she would have checked out.
I think the SW problem is easy and it's the same as Marvel. They had big, nerdy, loyal fans. They decided to change the target audience to mainstream, follow all the social trends now to reach mainstream viewers more easily, but... Mainstream viewers get bored. They're not the SW nerds they had. Many loyal fans stopped liking the direction, the inevitable story holes that happen when you rush many shows in the universe and hire people who were never big SW fans. Mainstream viewers get bored. We got bored of SW, we got bored of Marvel. I think in general we got bored of all these big movies about heros with big budget special effects, as they're not that special anymore, but even more so we got bored of the universes when so much stuff is being released based on them.
I'm that guy ... its not fatigue, it's the straight-up betrayal
The writing and directing could've used alot more work, the stakes should feel higher than the stakes did but they really don't. In the Andor series a pencil could be falling off of a table slowly and I'd be in complete suspense the entire time in anticipation 🥺 like despite knowing Andors fate I was still feeling like he could die at any moment and with ashoka I never really felt that despite us not even knowing ashoka, sebine or ezras fates in the end.
The writing was never going to give this show a chance with people outside the SW fandom.
@@khonshu6620 Exactly, i had to litterally lore dump when i was watching it with my mother so she'd understand a little what was going on. She's watched mando, all the prequels and original trilogy yet she still didn't fully understand alot of what was going on from watching the show 🥺 i wish they'd actually explained who the characters were, because with characters like Luke, Obi-wan and even Yoda they're already pre-established to the majority of people who watched any of the live action films but these characters being exclusive to a particular show really makes the bar of entry quite high as even starwars fans I know haven't actually watched rebels even.
@@khonshu6620not even outside the fandom. The casual fan, or people that aren’t big fans of ahsoka and the cartoons (like me) have no reason to bare the mid writing and direction of this show