Nadu essentially power crept all landfall commanders in and outside of its colors. If they're willing to ban Golos and not Nadu then something is very wrong with the rules committee.
The thing about Golos is everyone was building him as he was literally taking over the format while with Nadu it's just simic and belongs in the group of any other Kill on sight commander because it's not really a problem otherwise you would have to look at all the other "Kill on sight" commanders and ban them to. Like what i am trying to say is it will sort itself out with time just like with Tergrid or any other kill on sight commander
@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena I agree: people don't really talk about everything you need on your deck to set up a Nadu run: You need to pack A LOT of interaction to defend it since it was known as powerful even before release. There's only 3 Equip 0 pieces in total and the other popular 'target many creatures' spells are either not repeatable or not being talked about too much since it's high CMC cost (i.e. Cauldron of Souls works but on it's own, just targets once per turn per creature since itself gets tapped) So you need the interaction but you also need to run a lot of tutors. Mind you, Simic is not hurting for tutors specially around the CMC cost for the Equip 0 things but they all have their own CMC cost so even if Nadu is very low CMC for what he does, the set up around it involves either luck or several mulligans to open with what you need or waiting some turns even if you can drop Nadu turn 1potentially (Land + Jeweled Lotus) it's not gonna do anything without the equipment tricks. Third it needs at least one other creature so let's say Turn 1 you play land + Nadu + Jeweled Lotus and Turn 2 you can play Birds of Paradise + Shuko and start drawing 4 cards per turn. Sounds good except it's easy to vandalblast shuko for 1R or shock birds of paradise away and stop it dead on it's tracks. The point is that it's not all that hard to stop a Nadu deck from going off really early on. It's powerful yes, but like most other combo pieces it requires a lot of set up and deck building around it for it to work, that makes it not ban worthy imho.
@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena Maybe. My question is, since they are the de-facto oversight institution of the format... why don't they 'advise' about such abhorrently overpowered cards? Also, tue difference between this commander and tons of others is that this one _guarantees_ you get value. Most other 'kill-on-sight' commanders don't do that.
@@lVideoWatcherl They don't advice as they don't have that much influence with wizards plus they are cowards to speak up unless the card would have warped the format like Lutri as every red blue deck would have ran that otter since free auto include. Also the fact that it guarantees you get value is what makes it cEDH viable otherwise it is not worth their time. Also there are quite a bit of competitive players thinking that Nadu is just too reliant on a specific deck type so like Nekusar who is pretty much a Wheel deck it is not going to be played that much despite being competitively viable. Where Nadu would really shine is is being put into the 99 of any deck that uses Simic colors not being used as the commander s you can use a better more broken commander such as Kinnan as competitive players tend to learn towards mana rocks over lands for mana production. Like not even in competitive in high power there are a few kill on sight commanders that give guaranteed value such as K'rrik, son of Yawgmoth Sliver Overlord The First Sliver Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy Urza, Lord High Artificer The Ur-Dragon Krenko, Mob Boss Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire Yawgmoth, Thran Physician Nekusar, the Mindrazer Nine-Fingers Keene Phenax, God of Deception Szadek, Lord of Secrets Syr Konrad, the Grim Tatyova, Benthic Druid Thassa, God of the Sea Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker Lavinia of the Tenth (pair with bounce and it's a kill on sight) I could name a lot more that are guaranteed value as this is literally nothing new, and usually those that guarantee value ends up in competitive decks while casuals just stop playing them as to them the games start to feel samey when in reality that is not the case the games are never the same. Usually the "Kill on sight" label is reserved for cards that are easily broken with few cards or too annoying to deal with such as Nekusar in that case even for competitive players since he punishes people for drawing cards and competitive players loves drawing cards so he is a high priority counter spell target. Like the player is a kill on sight for simply having the card in the deck as it is too strong even for high power EDH yet sometimes too weak for competitive, so unless the cards gives guaranteed value they are in purgatory where you can't play them anywhere for being too weak for competitive and too strong for casuals Nadu at the end of the day is just one of those cards that would more than likely just be put into the 99 and not used as commander since it would be better off for most decks making all the other ones stronger
If I could like this 3 times I would. I would have more "fun" being mindslaver'd by Emrakul than play against this thing at least I'll get a turn with Emrakul
With Nadu in the command zone your "ramp package" can basically just be a whole bunch of 0 cost equipment. 1 turn with Nadu out and you're probably ramping enough to run away with the game. So it basically becomes a game of "kill Nadu the turn I play it (probably turn 2 or 3) or I just win."
Yeah, but even then how much removal are you running to kill the bird... also just targeting nadu gives the nadu player value because nadu doesnt need to be targeted by its controller to get the trigger.
Couple of things: You need both Nadu and at least one other creature and the equipment to start really 'ramping' in this way. This means at the minimum you're talking 3 CMC for Nadu and 1 CMC for Shuko and 1 CMC for a Mana Dork or other creature to move the equipment around and target. However remember there's only 3 equipment pieces with equip 0 cost: Shuko, Lightining Greaves and Umbra Mantle. So your 'ramp' becomes 3 cards that also require another creature other than the commander to work. For this reason, I don't consider Nadu really 'ramp' but more of a combo piece that can help you eventually get mana: It has more in common with Hullbreaker Horror than with any of the ramp pieces and like other combo pieces, it's heavily dependent on running a lot of tutors: Fabricate, some of the blue mages that tutor artifacts and the transmute cards that cost the same (Dizzy Spell for Shuko, Muddle the Mixture for lighting greaves, drift of phantasm for umbra mantle) And the one land that can tutor Shuko after 3 turns (Urza's Saga) EDIT: My bad, Inventor's fair can technically tutor any artifact as well but the cost and additional artifacts requirements makes it slightly more challenging, yet not impossible, to use for this purpose.
@@dimitriidI see it as a great card advantage engine, even with targeting spells. Running the 0 cost equip abilities or free creature abilities make it tough as hell
Play a mana dork on turn 1 and cast Nadu on turn 3 when you have mana leftover to cast all those "{G}: target creature gains hexproof until end of turn" that green has
@@dimitriid still with thouse conditions if You use a 1 equip cost equipment (that are Many off) You can use the same mana he ramps You into to keep ramping; cause he does not put the lands tapped. 0 cost equipments are the Best case scenario for him but not the only way
Nadu is crazy strong, obviously. I don't mind the power level, but the accounting of the twice per turn limit is absolutely obnoxious. That's the part of the card that I dislike the most.
Reminds me of risen reef all over again. So I am wondering if this was an error and the effect was only supposed to trigger twice per turn not twice per creature? Maybe later there will be an errat for it. You know after selling the crap out of the product.
This is my biggest problem in commander, it's not a regulated format. The things the RC has banned in the past pale in comparison to some of these new cards, and it just becomes a "social taboo" to play that will still randomly pop up and destroy you with no warning just because someone felt like "it's not that bad, play removal." I know banning all the problematic cards in commander is not an easy feat, but then maybe you shouldn't be in charge of the largest format in the game if you're not up to the task...
Who created this card and who approved it. I think it should have kept the effect but lands enter tapped and it only triggers once per turn per creature.
So having played with the commander quite a bit the past few days I would personally put it into the same camp as Kinnan in general explosiveness. I ultimately believe that Nadu should likely not receive the ban hammer. Now do I think people should be just bringing it to casual commander pods to pub stomp, absolutely not but in some of the higher powered tables I’ve played at interaction can be quite a thorn in the decks side as Nadu requires several moving parts to perform optimally and while it is in Simic which is arguably the two best colors to protect your permanents via tyvars stand style affects and counterspells you will find yourself burning through them quickly due to how high priority of a threat Nadu can pose. Personally I do not believe it should be banned as there are equally as explosive commanders but I do think people need to take the time to talk with there play groups and set the right expectations as a lot of the formats woes do come from that lack of communication.
I think they just have a very similar weakness in that they rely on many moving pieces to really go off and I actually think Nadu needs even more than Kinnan. While with Kinnan you just need efficient dorks to string together one or two triggers a turn(of course not accounting for mana generating combos). Nadu you want a decent suite of creatures, a one or zero equip artifact and the commander on the board and in high interaction games that is not easy.
When youre finished triggering all your creatures twice, theres a good chance you drawed into a clone or flicker effects and get the triggers all over again.
I think you got it right: Watch list? This is what I would call a 'Rule Zero conversation on sight' for casual tables: Just like Kinnan, Urza Lord High or Rog/Si if you see cedh staple commanders, you gotta talk to that player and ask the right questions: In the case of Nadu that'd be 'Did you build its reasonable but powerful or this this a turn 3-4 win attempt?' Because that's the best way to know what's going to happen. But banning it? Sorry but you can't ban Nadu without getting rid of a hell of a lot of A-C combos out there (A + C means Card A + Commander, meaning just one other card can potentially net you an infinite/near infinite combo or win you the game outright) And Nadu is not even a 2 card combo like Demonic Consultation + Thassa's Oracle: you need at least 2 more cards (Scute Swarm + Shuko) to potentially win the game on the spot once you get this combo going AND potentially, a bit more care in building your deck since this is a landfall deck so you need an abnormally high (For cedh anyway) number of lands to guarantee you'll hit 2-3 lands once you have Scute Swarm online to get to 6 lands and keep going up the ladder until drawing the entire deck is inevitable. Is it powerful? Yes. More powerful than almost any casual edh table is ready for? Also yes, no doubt. Is it ban worthy though? Not really: Not unless the rules committee decides to just ban a lot of the cedh strategies outright along with it and I really don't think that's going to happen or that it would be fair.
Thing is, it is probably both stronger AND more oppressive than most cards on the commander banlist. Do I expect it to be banned? No. The RC seems to have decided that bans are not a thing they really do anymore, the only thing that would make them change their stance would be a card that straight up doesnt work with the rules of commander. Stuff to the tune of "1 black 2 colorless, for each point of life target opponent has over 20, deal 2 damage of them" or something at this tune of absurdness/incompatability
Nadu should not be banned. Its the newest card to play with and the meta will adapt, its strong but not the strongest commander. If the argument is that Nadus game mechanic is to tedious then control decks, stax decks and mill decks should also be considered to be banned. I want minimum ban on cards in general
Having seen the bird in play it's honestly not that good. It gives you extra ramp with combo pieces, but if people remove the pieces or have ramp themselves it really isn't bad.
From the games I have played with and against it, it is a card that is a combo piece that doubles as pretty solid card draw and ramp, but it is VERY hard to gauge if the Nadu is about to combo off, or just going for ramp+draw, aside from seeing one of the ways to target a creature infinitely for free. At which point -and that point can happen at any point starting as early as turn 2 with sol ring on 1, or even turn 1 with a CEDH fast mana suite-, you either have an instant speed answer or lose on the spot. Is it the strongest thing you can do in CEDH? No, it is not. Would be surprised if it became one of the top strategies in that format, as I think Kinnan does simic better in the format. Is is oppressive as hell in anything short of that? Yes.
Not really the deck goes to hell if you deal with him , so in a sense people now will start playing slower to deal with and others will do the same changing the meta game.
I don't think it's that good. To make it good you have to run a lot of cards that do literally nothing An opponent plays dranith magistrate and gives it shroud - what is your deck doing? Equips shaku to coiling oracle? Play spellskite and equip it with umbra mantle? Nah, duh
@kindathor oh and thanks for the free nadu trigger while I'm countering your spell!! "Run more interaction" is the most asinine argument for why this card doesn't deserve the hammer and just for valuing cards in general not agreeing or disagreeing one way of the other on the ban itself.
Doubt it will happen. The usual suspect in our pod has built it so the plan remains unchanged. Relentlessly hate on the player until they learn to play interesting stuff instead.
Nadu doesn't need a ban, with other combo commanders present in the format. It is too strong for most casual playgroups, but it's already finding a home in cEDH
It’s been a week let people figure out how to play around it for at least a month then come back and review the decision. The cedh deck runs like 30 “bad” cards.
Yeah... Nadu exists and that alone makes me happy i rarely play with randoms at the LGS. Ive got my circle of buddies, we meet up once or twice a week for edh and we have gentlemans agreements about things like that. We dont use some of the newer over tuned commanders (nadu and voja) we dont run two card infinite combos (and if we play a deck and find out we put an infinite in by accident we just limit it by adding a 1 time per turn clause ourselves.)
Nadu is strong like Kinnan strong but far from broken. Now banning it in modern or brawl sure why not. It’s a nice change for both legacy and commander. Actually banning it in legacy may be correct. Moral of the story, run more interaction.
The RC has proven over and over that power level is not a reason they ban cards. They ban cards that create ban play experiences, which is exactly what Nadu does
Nadu is just another Orvar but in Simic. They'll pub stomp the "oh that doesn't look too bad." Crowd and bully people then pods will wise up. Personally, I wouldn't sit down with this commander unless I was playing my Grist deck as that is 70% removal. With a commander THIS monolithic, you have to keep killing it until they just can't play it anymore.
@VultureXV if a commander limits you to specifically only edicts or boardwipes, it better be a commander that is costly already, because that is very narrow interactability. Especially considering only one color has efficient edicts, and even then sometimes not ones that select accurately enough.
There's a ton of problematic commanders that don't get the ban. I'd need to see it in the format for a while first. Chulane is annoying as hell but isn't overwhelming to beat and has the same triggers
There's always gonna be some card that people want banned, yet there are just so many people who balk at the claim. If the salt it produces is nearing Winter Orb levels, I think it needs to be banned. It just depends on how much it sees plays, and how often it wins or just anger people to the point that they're fighting each other like someone bought the last Popeye's Chicken Sammich.
If Nadu should be banned then other kill-on-sight commanders like Winota, Yuriko or Kinnan should also be banned. He's also not that much more powerful than Kinnan
You can always run interaction to destroy 0 Equip cost Equipments. Artifact destruction is not uncommon, and a sandbag play like that can significantly slow down Nadu. Also, if you don't want to play against a Nadu player, you don't have to. Rule 0 exists.
It don't need to be banned it's just another kill on sight card in casual which EDH is filled with and eventually people are going to only play it in competitive EDH or very high power. Nadu is not a format warping card like Golos so it can't just be banned, it's a different story if casual players wanna be a bitch about it and force the RC to ban it by always using it in casual tables in any color with green and blue without any discussion. That would piss off a lot of people as you can take any competitive card that you wanna see banned and do that which will fucking kill the format at the end of the day
Nah let the format adjust. Ppl can just start running smaller sweepers. All the red ones trashes the deck. Can't bounce equipment around to the dorks. Plenty of commanders that if you just do nothing they win. What happens if you let najeela sit with her little guys.... you die, what happens if you let winota sit with her little 0 drops... you die, theres like 50 snowball commanders. Personally I think there's too many bans. Unleash some power to combat the power. The game is too old l, it has to power creep to make things progress. Why print the same power level cards for 20 years. Just play pauper 😂 I hope they just drop the ban list and THEN PPL can have there power level discussions. 60 card formats😂idk the 4 of's everything might be rough.😂
I think it should be banned in commander. Nadu itself and all the key pieces are 3CMC or less. Trinket mage / Trophy mage tutor your equipment out for 3cmc. you can eldritch or neoform manadorks for one of these creatures or your scute swarm if you already have it. just way too easy to combo off.
The fact that there is no place at a non competitive table for Nadu is very concerning. Even if you rule Zero, "no 0 cost equip", it's very good. You have to actively go out of your way to bring the power level DOWN.
its not worth to sugar coat Nadu with rule 0 stuff if he still will take a 30 min turn to try to win anyway because that's what the card do, and it's not concerning for him to be on this specter, there is a ton of simic value commanders Nadu just do more of the same, if you want to power down play them instead
At this point in time, it seems like NOTHING is worth banning to the RC. I'm not even sure why we have a ban list at all since we're all just expected to write an essay on our deck and justify it to the group for "Rule 0"
the ban list serves as an example for busted bad cards at first, but now its kind of a guide to avoid some bad designs to fall on the format and some strategies that are not very enjoyable to play against. i dont give a shit about "rule 0", i think all that did was create a space for whining babys that think a game of commander will and must be perfect every time, but still i think a social approach its better that just forbid stuff, like i will never play against a Tergrid deck, if the guy on the pool wants to play i'll just leave and play with someone else, he can play his deck and i dont get to suffer playing against his. no bans needed.
Kinnan its just a fat pig, dockside is a mean to end, no the end itself, bowmaster is easy to kill, bridge needs other cards and a graveyard to be useful and nadu just takes to long turns to do generic simic stuff. Non of this feels ban worthy, maybe dockside because you can abuse in many ways but the rest its fine.
There are 2 equipment in total with equip cost 0. It's a value engine which works only if nobody is running instants. It runs on sorcery speed with permanents that are easily removed. You can remove anything he does for 2 mana or less, for a penny. Can you just stop this bait? Unless they ban Thassas Oracle or Dockside Extortionist, they shouldnt ban the bird. Its just overhyped. Imagine not running removal.
There are plenty 1 cmc instants in blue that target and help you ramp and find your tutors/equipments. Additionally, you can mulligan down to 4 cards and still pop off. So its very likely that they start the game with it.
If you remove anything while Nadu is on board, you give the Nadu player value. You realize that, don't you? Also, how many 2 and less cmc removals do you play to be able to get rid of everything your opponent is doing, while also not falling behind entirely?
I don't think it needs to be banned in commander, but I find it a tedious, overpowered, boring addition to Simic value engines in the command zone. This is a 0 IQ build, essentially every deck wins the same way, plays the same way, involves a lot of solitaire and offers nothing particularly unique to the simic space. I love the one and done self target archetype that sees love in feather and and some gruul/temur builds but it actually deserves some love and design space. This has all the right words but in the end, cops out by doing everything for you, while being vague enough that the deck list barely has any spells in it and shares half it's edhrec page with every other simic value deck in the game. Sad design.
And just to clarify, because I don't like the sentiment behind '0 IQ build', what I mean is, even if you have been inventful, creative and thoughtful in constructing something unique, the deck undermines you but offering effortless optimized payoffs for anyone willing to copy and paste the edhrec average deck.
Wow!!! WotC did it again! a broken simic commander! Who knew pairing green with blue would be so strong (cough Kinnon thrasios). Speaking of, i'd compare Nadu to Thrasios not Najeela. And i mean seriously, Thrasios is more powerful than Najeela.
I am not sure what format this card is meant for. In casual/non-cedh commander it joins the highest tier of oppressive commanders that are the equivalent of someone showing up with an urza/yuriko deck and guaranteeing that either they dont have fun, or nobody else does.Dont think it is healthy in modern, since even when played "fairly" it is hilariously oppressive. Even discounting balance issues, the card is just a nightmare to track. The one format where it might have a healthy niche would be CEDH, but i HEAVILY hope that wizards are not designing cards around CEDH first...
yeah yeah good old dies to removal excuse, i dont think he needs to be banned. on my last game against a Nadu i counter him on first drop, the other dude on the table swords him the second time, then i bounced him on the third, and on the fourth cast i turn him into a merfolk 1/1 with mystic reflection. And still the dude took a 20 min turn to cast a tassas oracle and all we gave him was 2 turns with the commander, one before i bounce him and the one he won. Sorry but your argument is pointless, REMOVAL MEANS NOTHING WHEN YOU GOT RESILIENCE. Nadu is a 3 drop that gives you extra lands, has blue so you can counter removal or bounce since boucing is also useful on his strategy and he can get you a ton of cards just by changing shoes
Nadu has big Zada vibes for me. Obviously she is in better colors, a way better stat line and cheaper to cast. However, just like a Zada deck, a Nadu deck is going to be dead without Nadu on board. Seriously, wtf are you going to do with a Shuko? There is a reason it was worth nothing prior to MH3. Perhaps Nadu is what finally gets more casual players to run more interaction. The herald to better play for everyone! The hero we needed, but don’t deserve! Nahhhhhh, we should all just complain instead. Way easier.
So the solution to a problematic and unbalanced card is that other people have to compromise the consistency of their engine and deck fantasy so that they have a 10% higher chance of bullying the person playing the problematic card? Great thinking, bootlicker.
the nadu deck is going to be winning or getting close to it the turn they drop nadu, in colors that have access to countermagic and instant speed hexproof/indestructible.
@@franslair2199 Red has decent protection. OG’s like Fork and Reverberate, but Deflecting Swat and the new Flare of Duplication are some of the best options in the format! But, honestly, that’s not the point. I already mentioned all the reasons why Nadu is better than Zada. It doesn’t change the fact a good portion of a Nadu list, just like Zada, are dead draws unless Nadu is on board. Monolith style commanders are always boogie men in casual pods, but when submitted to the rigor of competitive pods, they don’t hold up so well.
I understand and somewhat agree with the sentiment and message. Except Nadu triggers for any removal if it's on the board, which ends up paying for its commander tax. It benefits even when it's removed. That's even if the removal spell/ability sticks, which it may not as others said. Ramping with lands, and drawing cards, also makes sure that if there's a full boardwipe, Nadu's controller is gonna be better poised for a rebuild than every other player. Countermagic is a solution, but it 1) requires other people to run blue, 2) requires other people to hold their counter specifically against it, and forego other threats, 3) can be offset by Nadu's controller holding up cheap counters to play it, and waiting till turn 4, instead of 3, to play it. The deck's not just full of shukos. Landfall is a very powerful archetype, especially on these colors. Also, Yuriko's decks are full of 1/1s and 13 mana uncastable spells, yet it's a menace. If the commander is that good, it absolutely make piles into machines. I'm still unsure if it requires ban in a format where eminence and commander ninjutsu are ok, where there are 0 card combos and just busted decks that by average win on turn 3, even against other busted decks, but it's a lot of little things that, in theory, compound to a commander that warps the game to be all about it from the moment it's revealed, which is not a great experience.
I’m in the camp that more stuff should be banned in commander. If not Nadu then command tower, sol ring, and arcane signet see near universal play and should be banned for being in 99% of decks, thus making it a 96 card deck format.
They make high color decks playable at a low budget lol If you ban sol ring you just lock out people on budget from 3-4 color smooth decks, when mana confluence and stuff like that at 20+bucks will still exist and do the same thing but for more money
No, they dont go on 99% of decks, even on EDHRec you dont see this happening, i dont play command tower on my mono color decks, o dont play sol ring on green decks, i dont play arcane signet on my colorless and 2 of my five color decks. if all you can think of is beeng "optimal" with every deck or simplify deck building just because some cards can be good on a lot of decks then it lacks you imagination, or just the will to play with something else instead.
Without even looking over this video yet, I think it should absolutely be banned in commander. It's just a combo hunter commander. What "Legendary" tactic is simply just rummaging the deck for themeless cards while simultaneously ramping at an absurd rate? It's not a playstyle, it's an exploit.
i think its fine, they brought this upon themselves by playing this type of commander, its also on spirit to be the archenemy sometimes, even if not at the start that might happend in a game
@@Hfsm33 hard agree. I'm not even in the camp of "nadu must be banned!" because I have no idea about cEDH and it might just end up not doing anything there while in casual EDH you'll just rule zero him out anyway. But calling a discussion about whether or not to ban Nadu "whining" is so immature. "bow out if you can't handle losing" -> I have a feeling this guy specced on Nadu.
Nadu its fine, but Golos it's right where he belongs, here's why: 1 - he has NO CAST RESTRICTIONS so you can play him with no problem on get colors, you can play a colorless deck and still be able to cast him. 2- when he enters you get a land from the deck so if he gets removed you are 1 landrop from casting him next turn, thats BYPASSING THE COMMANDER TAX and you can even abuse it since is a ETB. 3 - Still on the land ETB thing, you can get ANY land including one called The World Tree wich perfectly fixes your mana as soon as it enters since you will probably have 6 lands by then (5 and the Tree) even if you are playing a deck full of basic wastes. this BYPASSES THE COLOR PIE CONCEPT. 4 - Then he has the ability to cast up to 3 spells from the top no matter their costs, not restricted by taping or once per turn, what will you do? well if you play a mono red dragons you can to cast up to 3 dragons instead of 1 on your turn so what's the point on playing another red commander? ok, how about izzet spells, cast 3 extra turn cards at once, 3 more turns, 3 more activations up to 9 more spells, good no? what about demons and extra turns but with only swamps, no need for islands thank to the world tree anyway, or how about a good stuff pile with only wastes on the mana base? how about i replace him with Jodah, he alters costs but golos cast stuff for free, .... Do you get it now? Golos is breaking and bypassing game rules so he can do anything, and do better than almost every commander. he makes almost all other commanders bad because he can do everything with more efficiency
@@jadegrace1312 Nadu its fine, but Golos it's right where he belongs, here's why: 1 - he has NO CAST RESTRICTIONS so you can play him with no problem on get colors, you can play a colorless deck and still be able to cast him. 2- when he enters you get a land from the deck so if he gets removed you are 1 landrop from casting him next turn, thats BYPASSING THE COMMANDER TAX and you can even abuse it since is a ETB. 3 - Still on the land ETB thing, you can get ANY land including one called The World Tree wich perfectly fixes your mana as soon as it enters since you will probably have 6 lands by then (5 and the Tree) even if you are playing a deck full of basic wastes. this BYPASSES THE COLOR PIE CONCEPT. 4 - Then he has the ability to cast up to 3 spells from the top no matter their costs, not restricted by taping or once per turn, what will you do? well if you play a mono red dragons you can to cast up to 3 dragons instead of 1 on your turn so what's the point on playing another red commander? ok, how about izzet spells, cast 3 extra turn cards at once, 3 more turns, 3 more activations up to 9 more spells, good no? what about demons and extra turns but with only swamps, no need for islands thank to the world tree anyway, or how about a good stuff pile with only wastes on the mana base? how about i replace him with Jodah, he alters costs but golos cast stuff for free, .... Do you get it now? Golos is breaking and bypassing game rules so he can do anything, and do better than almost every commander. he makes almost all other commanders bad because he can do everything with more efficiency
HEY RULES COMMITTEE DO YOUR JOB OH WAIT YOU ALL BROGH NADUS FOR STOCK COUGH COUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh lets not ban NADU
Just bolt the bird
Oh wait
Nadu essentially power crept all landfall commanders in and outside of its colors. If they're willing to ban Golos and not Nadu then something is very wrong with the rules committee.
The thing about Golos is everyone was building him as he was literally taking over the format while with Nadu it's just simic and belongs in the group of any other Kill on sight commander because it's not really a problem otherwise you would have to look at all the other "Kill on sight" commanders and ban them to. Like what i am trying to say is it will sort itself out with time just like with Tergrid or any other kill on sight commander
@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena I agree: people don't really talk about everything you need on your deck to set up a Nadu run: You need to pack A LOT of interaction to defend it since it was known as powerful even before release. There's only 3 Equip 0 pieces in total and the other popular 'target many creatures' spells are either not repeatable or not being talked about too much since it's high CMC cost (i.e. Cauldron of Souls works but on it's own, just targets once per turn per creature since itself gets tapped)
So you need the interaction but you also need to run a lot of tutors. Mind you, Simic is not hurting for tutors specially around the CMC cost for the Equip 0 things but they all have their own CMC cost so even if Nadu is very low CMC for what he does, the set up around it involves either luck or several mulligans to open with what you need or waiting some turns even if you can drop Nadu turn 1potentially (Land + Jeweled Lotus) it's not gonna do anything without the equipment tricks.
Third it needs at least one other creature so let's say Turn 1 you play land + Nadu + Jeweled Lotus and Turn 2 you can play Birds of Paradise + Shuko and start drawing 4 cards per turn. Sounds good except it's easy to vandalblast shuko for 1R or shock birds of paradise away and stop it dead on it's tracks.
The point is that it's not all that hard to stop a Nadu deck from going off really early on. It's powerful yes, but like most other combo pieces it requires a lot of set up and deck building around it for it to work, that makes it not ban worthy imho.
@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena Maybe. My question is, since they are the de-facto oversight institution of the format... why don't they 'advise' about such abhorrently overpowered cards? Also, tue difference between this commander and tons of others is that this one _guarantees_ you get value. Most other 'kill-on-sight' commanders don't do that.
@@lVideoWatcherl They don't advice as they don't have that much influence with wizards plus they are cowards to speak up unless the card would have warped the format like Lutri as every red blue deck would have ran that otter since free auto include.
Also the fact that it guarantees you get value is what makes it cEDH viable otherwise it is not worth their time. Also there are quite a bit of competitive players thinking that Nadu is just too reliant on a specific deck type so like Nekusar who is pretty much a Wheel deck it is not going to be played that much despite being competitively viable.
Where Nadu would really shine is is being put into the 99 of any deck that uses Simic colors not being used as the commander s you can use a better more broken commander such as Kinnan as competitive players tend to learn towards mana rocks over lands for mana production.
Like not even in competitive in high power there are a few kill on sight commanders that give guaranteed value such as
K'rrik, son of Yawgmoth
Sliver Overlord
The First Sliver
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Urza, Lord High Artificer
The Ur-Dragon
Krenko, Mob Boss
Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Nine-Fingers Keene
Phenax, God of Deception
Szadek, Lord of Secrets
Syr Konrad, the Grim
Tatyova, Benthic Druid
Thassa, God of the Sea
Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
Lavinia of the Tenth (pair with bounce and it's a kill on sight)
I could name a lot more that are guaranteed value as this is literally nothing new, and usually those that guarantee value ends up in competitive decks while casuals just stop playing them as to them the games start to feel samey when in reality that is not the case the games are never the same.
Usually the "Kill on sight" label is reserved for cards that are easily broken with few cards or too annoying to deal with such as Nekusar in that case even for competitive players since he punishes people for drawing cards and competitive players loves drawing cards so he is a high priority counter spell target. Like the player is a kill on sight for simply having the card in the deck as it is too strong even for high power EDH yet sometimes too weak for competitive, so unless the cards gives guaranteed value they are in purgatory where you can't play them anywhere for being too weak for competitive and too strong for casuals
Nadu at the end of the day is just one of those cards that would more than likely just be put into the 99 and not used as commander since it would be better off for most decks making all the other ones stronger
If I could like this 3 times I would. I would have more "fun" being mindslaver'd by Emrakul than play against this thing at least I'll get a turn with Emrakul
With Nadu in the command zone your "ramp package" can basically just be a whole bunch of 0 cost equipment. 1 turn with Nadu out and you're probably ramping enough to run away with the game. So it basically becomes a game of "kill Nadu the turn I play it (probably turn 2 or 3) or I just win."
Yeah, but even then how much removal are you running to kill the bird... also just targeting nadu gives the nadu player value because nadu doesnt need to be targeted by its controller to get the trigger.
Couple of things: You need both Nadu and at least one other creature and the equipment to start really 'ramping' in this way. This means at the minimum you're talking 3 CMC for Nadu and 1 CMC for Shuko and 1 CMC for a Mana Dork or other creature to move the equipment around and target.
However remember there's only 3 equipment pieces with equip 0 cost: Shuko, Lightining Greaves and Umbra Mantle. So your 'ramp' becomes 3 cards that also require another creature other than the commander to work.
For this reason, I don't consider Nadu really 'ramp' but more of a combo piece that can help you eventually get mana: It has more in common with Hullbreaker Horror than with any of the ramp pieces and like other combo pieces, it's heavily dependent on running a lot of tutors: Fabricate, some of the blue mages that tutor artifacts and the transmute cards that cost the same (Dizzy Spell for Shuko, Muddle the Mixture for lighting greaves, drift of phantasm for umbra mantle) And the one land that can tutor Shuko after 3 turns (Urza's Saga) EDIT: My bad, Inventor's fair can technically tutor any artifact as well but the cost and additional artifacts requirements makes it slightly more challenging, yet not impossible, to use for this purpose.
@@dimitriidI see it as a great card advantage engine, even with targeting spells. Running the 0 cost equip abilities or free creature abilities make it tough as hell
Play a mana dork on turn 1 and cast Nadu on turn 3 when you have mana leftover to cast all those "{G}: target creature gains hexproof until end of turn" that green has
@@dimitriid still with thouse conditions if You use a 1 equip cost equipment (that are Many off) You can use the same mana he ramps You into to keep ramping; cause he does not put the lands tapped. 0 cost equipments are the Best case scenario for him but not the only way
Nadu is crazy strong, obviously. I don't mind the power level, but the accounting of the twice per turn limit is absolutely obnoxious. That's the part of the card that I dislike the most.
exactly why I can’t put him in my Orvar deck :/
Reminds me of risen reef all over again. So I am wondering if this was an error and the effect was only supposed to trigger twice per turn not twice per creature? Maybe later there will be an errat for it. You know after selling the crap out of the product.
I need this thumbnail as a playmat xD
This is my biggest problem in commander, it's not a regulated format. The things the RC has banned in the past pale in comparison to some of these new cards, and it just becomes a "social taboo" to play that will still randomly pop up and destroy you with no warning just because someone felt like "it's not that bad, play removal." I know banning all the problematic cards in commander is not an easy feat, but then maybe you shouldn't be in charge of the largest format in the game if you're not up to the task...
Dies to swords, weak.
No one dies to swords.
@@murilofreire4569 I'm sorry, gets exiled by swords.
Recasted next turn
Who created this card and who approved it. I think it should have kept the effect but lands enter tapped and it only triggers once per turn per creature.
I challenged my friend to a game of modern with a Nadu deck and had a 15 minute long turn where i took him from 16 life to -1 in 3 turns.
So having played with the commander quite a bit the past few days I would personally put it into the same camp as Kinnan in general explosiveness. I ultimately believe that Nadu should likely not receive the ban hammer. Now do I think people should be just bringing it to casual commander pods to pub stomp, absolutely not but in some of the higher powered tables I’ve played at interaction can be quite a thorn in the decks side as Nadu requires several moving parts to perform optimally and while it is in Simic which is arguably the two best colors to protect your permanents via tyvars stand style affects and counterspells you will find yourself burning through them quickly due to how high priority of a threat Nadu can pose.
Personally I do not believe it should be banned as there are equally as explosive commanders but I do think people need to take the time to talk with there play groups and set the right expectations as a lot of the formats woes do come from that lack of communication.
I reached a similar conclusion when I thought about Nadu in comparison to Kinnan
I think they just have a very similar weakness in that they rely on many moving pieces to really go off and I actually think Nadu needs even more than Kinnan. While with Kinnan you just need efficient dorks to string together one or two triggers a turn(of course not accounting for mana generating combos). Nadu you want a decent suite of creatures, a one or zero equip artifact and the commander on the board and in high interaction games that is not easy.
Commanders like these is why I run my Hinata deck
I play Hinata, it's all targeting. The Nadu player would immediately go insane
When youre finished triggering all your creatures twice, theres a good chance you drawed into a clone or flicker effects and get the triggers all over again.
Yes, if it becomes another paradox engine.
That's going to be another 15 minutes turn before someone wioes the board and he starts again...
I can vote Nadu as banned as the commander.
I think you got it right: Watch list? This is what I would call a 'Rule Zero conversation on sight' for casual tables: Just like Kinnan, Urza Lord High or Rog/Si if you see cedh staple commanders, you gotta talk to that player and ask the right questions: In the case of Nadu that'd be 'Did you build its reasonable but powerful or this this a turn 3-4 win attempt?' Because that's the best way to know what's going to happen.
But banning it? Sorry but you can't ban Nadu without getting rid of a hell of a lot of A-C combos out there (A + C means Card A + Commander, meaning just one other card can potentially net you an infinite/near infinite combo or win you the game outright) And Nadu is not even a 2 card combo like Demonic Consultation + Thassa's Oracle: you need at least 2 more cards (Scute Swarm + Shuko) to potentially win the game on the spot once you get this combo going AND potentially, a bit more care in building your deck since this is a landfall deck so you need an abnormally high (For cedh anyway) number of lands to guarantee you'll hit 2-3 lands once you have Scute Swarm online to get to 6 lands and keep going up the ladder until drawing the entire deck is inevitable.
Is it powerful? Yes. More powerful than almost any casual edh table is ready for? Also yes, no doubt. Is it ban worthy though? Not really: Not unless the rules committee decides to just ban a lot of the cedh strategies outright along with it and I really don't think that's going to happen or that it would be fair.
Thing is, it is probably both stronger AND more oppressive than most cards on the commander banlist. Do I expect it to be banned? No. The RC seems to have decided that bans are not a thing they really do anymore, the only thing that would make them change their stance would be a card that straight up doesnt work with the rules of commander.
Stuff to the tune of "1 black 2 colorless, for each point of life target opponent has over 20, deal 2 damage of them" or something at this tune of absurdness/incompatability
My group does stuff way scarier than Nadu on a regular basis.
I wish more people wanted storm cauldron and/or stasis banned tho
Should get the ban hammer !
ban this ban that
just 3v1 the nadu player
Hardly matters when the Nadu player wins on turn 3.
Playing thoracle in casual is perfectly fine as long as you don't play anything like demonic consultation with it.
Oh boy another commander the turn 20 koala tribal players are crying about. No this commander doesnt need a ban.
Nadu should not be banned. Its the newest card to play with and the meta will adapt, its strong but not the strongest commander. If the argument is that Nadus game mechanic is to tedious then control decks, stax decks and mill decks should also be considered to be banned. I want minimum ban on cards in general
Having seen the bird in play it's honestly not that good. It gives you extra ramp with combo pieces, but if people remove the pieces or have ramp themselves it really isn't bad.
From the games I have played with and against it, it is a card that is a combo piece that doubles as pretty solid card draw and ramp, but it is VERY hard to gauge if the Nadu is about to combo off, or just going for ramp+draw, aside from seeing one of the ways to target a creature infinitely for free. At which point -and that point can happen at any point starting as early as turn 2 with sol ring on 1, or even turn 1 with a CEDH fast mana suite-, you either have an instant speed answer or lose on the spot.
Is it the strongest thing you can do in CEDH? No, it is not. Would be surprised if it became one of the top strategies in that format, as I think Kinnan does simic better in the format. Is is oppressive as hell in anything short of that? Yes.
Problem is he makes 20 min turns along with itand dont win, not ban worthy but annoying as hell
Somebody says......play more gain control effects. If someone plays that commander just get it for you 😂
I think if Nadu starts monopolizing all the playtime in commander with 20 minute turns then yes, it will be banned. Definitely a problem
the four toughness is a gripe i have with so many pushed legendary creatures. buddy just let players learn to play around removal. it's not hard
The 4 toughness was probably to make the red(Devoid) instants that can ping for 4 damage for 1 or 2 mana feel legitimized.
Yes.
Not really the deck goes to hell if you deal with him , so in a sense people now will start playing slower to deal with and others will do the same changing the meta game.
Why ban it? What or who prevent other people or players from buy those cards?
The 3 hostages on the table along with the fucker playing the damn bird (no need for ban but play against it its a waste of time)
I don't think it's that good.
To make it good you have to run a lot of cards that do literally nothing
An opponent plays dranith magistrate and gives it shroud - what is your deck doing?
Equips shaku to coiling oracle?
Play spellskite and equip it with umbra mantle?
Nah, duh
if the pirate got banned this deserves to get banned
You have no idea what you’re talking about do you? Card was banned because he shuts interaction, you can still respond to nadu…
Ye respond into the 30 card hand full of free interaction. It's just that simple
@kindathor oh and thanks for the free nadu trigger while I'm countering your spell!! "Run more interaction" is the most asinine argument for why this card doesn't deserve the hammer and just for valuing cards in general not agreeing or disagreeing one way of the other on the ban itself.
Doubt it will happen. The usual suspect in our pod has built it so the plan remains unchanged. Relentlessly hate on the player until they learn to play interesting stuff instead.
Sure or it’ll just be another commander people find annoying after a while and nobody will play it again
Yes! Just like tergrid, avoid before the game even starts
It should be banned in brawl for sure
100% ban this
Nadu doesn't need a ban, with other combo commanders present in the format.
It is too strong for most casual playgroups, but it's already finding a home in cEDH
as far as commander is concerned I believe people will police it themselves. No need for a ban.
It’s been a week let people figure out how to play around it for at least a month then come back and review the decision. The cedh deck runs like 30 “bad” cards.
i hate a general that drops and wins
Yeah... Nadu exists and that alone makes me happy i rarely play with randoms at the LGS. Ive got my circle of buddies, we meet up once or twice a week for edh and we have gentlemans agreements about things like that. We dont use some of the newer over tuned commanders (nadu and voja) we dont run two card infinite combos (and if we play a deck and find out we put an infinite in by accident we just limit it by adding a 1 time per turn clause ourselves.)
I do not think that card is game breaking in the slightest
Have you played against one yet?
I genuinely think that they should bring back "banned as commander"
If he gets banned I'd be sad. Cuz I really like mutate and he interacts well with that
ban Nadu in multi not in Duel Commander
No bans needed
Nadu is strong like Kinnan strong but far from broken. Now banning it in modern or brawl sure why not. It’s a nice change for both legacy and commander. Actually banning it in legacy may be correct.
Moral of the story, run more interaction.
The RC has proven over and over that power level is not a reason they ban cards. They ban cards that create ban play experiences, which is exactly what Nadu does
Nadu is just another Orvar but in Simic.
They'll pub stomp the "oh that doesn't look too bad." Crowd and bully people then pods will wise up.
Personally, I wouldn't sit down with this commander unless I was playing my Grist deck as that is 70% removal. With a commander THIS monolithic, you have to keep killing it until they just can't play it anymore.
But to kill it you have to target it and they’ll have counters so good luck. Honestly your best bet is to try and race it I think
Orvar and Nadu are very different. For one, Nadu is about a million times stronger. Secondly Orvar can do a lot of cool stuff.
@@Lazydino59
What about edict effects and gravepact stuff?
@VultureXV if a commander limits you to specifically only edicts or boardwipes, it better be a commander that is costly already, because that is very narrow interactability. Especially considering only one color has efficient edicts, and even then sometimes not ones that select accurately enough.
There's a ton of problematic commanders that don't get the ban. I'd need to see it in the format for a while first. Chulane is annoying as hell but isn't overwhelming to beat and has the same triggers
There's always gonna be some card that people want banned, yet there are just so many people who balk at the claim. If the salt it produces is nearing Winter Orb levels, I think it needs to be banned. It just depends on how much it sees plays, and how often it wins or just anger people to the point that they're fighting each other like someone bought the last Popeye's Chicken Sammich.
Golpes was banned because every Go loss deck is Cedh
The same is true for Nadu, you can't build a casual commander with him
Nadu should be cEDH only, and only banned if it's a problem there. Just don't play it in casual like we do with plenty of other cards already.
“Nadunough bans”
If Nadu should be banned then other kill-on-sight commanders like Winota, Yuriko or Kinnan should also be banned.
He's also not that much more powerful than Kinnan
You can always run interaction to destroy 0 Equip cost Equipments. Artifact destruction is not uncommon, and a sandbag play like that can significantly slow down Nadu.
Also, if you don't want to play against a Nadu player, you don't have to. Rule 0 exists.
It don't need to be banned it's just another kill on sight card in casual which EDH is filled with and eventually people are going to only play it in competitive EDH or very high power. Nadu is not a format warping card like Golos so it can't just be banned, it's a different story if casual players wanna be a bitch about it and force the RC to ban it by always using it in casual tables in any color with green and blue without any discussion. That would piss off a lot of people as you can take any competitive card that you wanna see banned and do that which will fucking kill the format at the end of the day
Nah let the format adjust. Ppl can just start running smaller sweepers. All the red ones trashes the deck. Can't bounce equipment around to the dorks. Plenty of commanders that if you just do nothing they win. What happens if you let najeela sit with her little guys.... you die, what happens if you let winota sit with her little 0 drops... you die, theres like 50 snowball commanders. Personally I think there's too many bans. Unleash some power to combat the power. The game is too old l, it has to power creep to make things progress. Why print the same power level cards for 20 years. Just play pauper 😂 I hope they just drop the ban list and THEN PPL can have there power level discussions. 60 card formats😂idk the 4 of's everything might be rough.😂
"oh no! A new card that's super strong! Ban it quick before the peasants can use it! Only OLD cards are allowed to be that strong!"
I think it should be banned in commander. Nadu itself and all the key pieces are 3CMC or less. Trinket mage / Trophy mage tutor your equipment out for 3cmc. you can eldritch or neoform manadorks for one of these creatures or your scute swarm if you already have it. just way too easy to combo off.
Meh, just ban the commander format. Then modern, followed by legacy, standard …. Just ban MTG.
The fact that there is no place at a non competitive table for Nadu is very concerning. Even if you rule Zero, "no 0 cost equip", it's very good. You have to actively go out of your way to bring the power level DOWN.
its not worth to sugar coat Nadu with rule 0 stuff if he still will take a 30 min turn to try to win anyway because that's what the card do, and it's not concerning for him to be on this specter, there is a ton of simic value commanders Nadu just do more of the same, if you want to power down play them instead
At this point in time, it seems like NOTHING is worth banning to the RC. I'm not even sure why we have a ban list at all since we're all just expected to write an essay on our deck and justify it to the group for "Rule 0"
the ban list serves as an example for busted bad cards at first, but now its kind of a guide to avoid some bad designs to fall on the format and some strategies that are not very enjoyable to play against.
i dont give a shit about "rule 0", i think all that did was create a space for whining babys that think a game of commander will and must be perfect every time, but still i think a social approach its better that just forbid stuff, like i will never play against a Tergrid deck, if the guy on the pool wants to play i'll just leave and play with someone else, he can play his deck and i dont get to suffer playing against his. no bans needed.
No one talking about kinnan, dockside underworld breach… orcish bow master
Everyone calling for ban…
Kinnan its just a fat pig, dockside is a mean to end, no the end itself, bowmaster is easy to kill, bridge needs other cards and a graveyard to be useful and nadu just takes to long turns to do generic simic stuff. Non of this feels ban worthy, maybe dockside because you can abuse in many ways but the rest its fine.
There are 2 equipment in total with equip cost 0. It's a value engine which works only if nobody is running instants. It runs on sorcery speed with permanents that are easily removed. You can remove anything he does for 2 mana or less, for a penny. Can you just stop this bait? Unless they ban Thassas Oracle or Dockside Extortionist, they shouldnt ban the bird. Its just overhyped. Imagine not running removal.
There are plenty 1 cmc instants in blue that target and help you ramp and find your tutors/equipments. Additionally, you can mulligan down to 4 cards and still pop off. So its very likely that they start the game with it.
If you remove anything while Nadu is on board, you give the Nadu player value. You realize that, don't you?
Also, how many 2 and less cmc removals do you play to be able to get rid of everything your opponent is doing, while also not falling behind entirely?
I don't think it needs to be banned in commander, but I find it a tedious, overpowered, boring addition to Simic value engines in the command zone. This is a 0 IQ build, essentially every deck wins the same way, plays the same way, involves a lot of solitaire and offers nothing particularly unique to the simic space. I love the one and done self target archetype that sees love in feather and and some gruul/temur builds but it actually deserves some love and design space. This has all the right words but in the end, cops out by doing everything for you, while being vague enough that the deck list barely has any spells in it and shares half it's edhrec page with every other simic value deck in the game. Sad design.
And just to clarify, because I don't like the sentiment behind '0 IQ build', what I mean is, even if you have been inventful, creative and thoughtful in constructing something unique, the deck undermines you but offering effortless optimized payoffs for anyone willing to copy and paste the edhrec average deck.
Yep, get out the hammer for that birrrrrd. perhaps also for other formats where these cheap win cons are playable.
Wow!!! WotC did it again! a broken simic commander! Who knew pairing green with blue would be so strong (cough Kinnon thrasios).
Speaking of, i'd compare Nadu to Thrasios not Najeela. And i mean seriously, Thrasios is more powerful than Najeela.
I am not sure what format this card is meant for. In casual/non-cedh commander it joins the highest tier of oppressive commanders that are the equivalent of someone showing up with an urza/yuriko deck and guaranteeing that either they dont have fun, or nobody else does.Dont think it is healthy in modern, since even when played "fairly" it is hilariously oppressive. Even discounting balance issues, the card is just a nightmare to track.
The one format where it might have a healthy niche would be CEDH, but i HEAVILY hope that wizards are not designing cards around CEDH first...
It dies easily people just need interaction
yeah yeah good old dies to removal excuse, i dont think he needs to be banned. on my last game against a Nadu i counter him on first drop, the other dude on the table swords him the second time, then i bounced him on the third, and on the fourth cast i turn him into a merfolk 1/1 with mystic reflection. And still the dude took a 20 min turn to cast a tassas oracle and all we gave him was 2 turns with the commander, one before i bounce him and the one he won.
Sorry but your argument is pointless, REMOVAL MEANS NOTHING WHEN YOU GOT RESILIENCE. Nadu is a 3 drop that gives you extra lands, has blue so you can counter removal or bounce since boucing is also useful on his strategy and he can get you a ton of cards just by changing shoes
Ban Kennen. The card is an enabler and an outlet in the same card.
da fuk is kennen?!
Nadu has big Zada vibes for me. Obviously she is in better colors, a way better stat line and cheaper to cast. However, just like a Zada deck, a Nadu deck is going to be dead without Nadu on board. Seriously, wtf are you going to do with a Shuko? There is a reason it was worth nothing prior to MH3. Perhaps Nadu is what finally gets more casual players to run more interaction. The herald to better play for everyone! The hero we needed, but don’t deserve! Nahhhhhh, we should all just complain instead. Way easier.
So the solution to a problematic and unbalanced card is that other people have to compromise the consistency of their engine and deck fantasy so that they have a 10% higher chance of bullying the person playing the problematic card? Great thinking, bootlicker.
the nadu deck is going to be winning or getting close to it the turn they drop nadu, in colors that have access to countermagic and instant speed hexproof/indestructible.
Nonsense take, Nadu has significantly better protection and hexproof, Zada has none. Nadu also has numerous ways to fetch-to-field the combo pieces.
@@franslair2199
Red has decent protection. OG’s like Fork and Reverberate, but Deflecting Swat and the new Flare of Duplication are some of the best options in the format! But, honestly, that’s not the point. I already mentioned all the reasons why Nadu is better than Zada. It doesn’t change the fact a good portion of a Nadu list, just like Zada, are dead draws unless Nadu is on board. Monolith style commanders are always boogie men in casual pods, but when submitted to the rigor of competitive pods, they don’t hold up so well.
I understand and somewhat agree with the sentiment and message.
Except Nadu triggers for any removal if it's on the board, which ends up paying for its commander tax. It benefits even when it's removed. That's even if the removal spell/ability sticks, which it may not as others said.
Ramping with lands, and drawing cards, also makes sure that if there's a full boardwipe, Nadu's controller is gonna be better poised for a rebuild than every other player.
Countermagic is a solution, but it 1) requires other people to run blue, 2) requires other people to hold their counter specifically against it, and forego other threats, 3) can be offset by Nadu's controller holding up cheap counters to play it, and waiting till turn 4, instead of 3, to play it.
The deck's not just full of shukos. Landfall is a very powerful archetype, especially on these colors.
Also, Yuriko's decks are full of 1/1s and 13 mana uncastable spells, yet it's a menace. If the commander is that good, it absolutely make piles into machines.
I'm still unsure if it requires ban in a format where eminence and commander ninjutsu are ok, where there are 0 card combos and just busted decks that by average win on turn 3, even against other busted decks, but it's a lot of little things that, in theory, compound to a commander that warps the game to be all about it from the moment it's revealed, which is not a great experience.
I’m in the camp that more stuff should be banned in commander. If not Nadu then command tower, sol ring, and arcane signet see near universal play and should be banned for being in 99% of decks, thus making it a 96 card deck format.
They make high color decks playable at a low budget lol
If you ban sol ring you just lock out people on budget from 3-4 color smooth decks, when mana confluence and stuff like that at 20+bucks will still exist and do the same thing but for more money
No, they dont go on 99% of decks, even on EDHRec you dont see this happening, i dont play command tower on my mono color decks, o dont play sol ring on green decks, i dont play arcane signet on my colorless and 2 of my five color decks. if all you can think of is beeng "optimal" with every deck or simplify deck building just because some cards can be good on a lot of decks then it lacks you imagination, or just the will to play with something else instead.
I agree he should be banned but only as commander. In 99 he's so so and susceptible to removal.
Without even looking over this video yet, I think it should absolutely be banned in commander. It's just a combo hunter commander. What "Legendary" tactic is simply just rummaging the deck for themeless cards while simultaneously ramping at an absurd rate? It's not a playstyle, it's an exploit.
Not a fan of commanders that encourage the whole table to gang up on one person. It’s deserved but against the spirit of the game.
i think its fine, they brought this upon themselves by playing this type of commander, its also on spirit to be the archenemy sometimes, even if not at the start that might happend in a game
Nadu shouldnt be in any format, to be honest. Its stupidly confusing, and very annoying to play both with and against.
Golos shouldn’t have been banned and neither should nadu so stop the whining and bow out if you can’t handle losing.
No one is whining except you, people can have opinions and discussions.
@@Hfsm33 hard agree. I'm not even in the camp of "nadu must be banned!" because I have no idea about cEDH and it might just end up not doing anything there while in casual EDH you'll just rule zero him out anyway.
But calling a discussion about whether or not to ban Nadu "whining" is so immature.
"bow out if you can't handle losing" -> I have a feeling this guy specced on Nadu.
Golos shouldn't be banned, Nadu should be. Pretty simple.
Nadu its fine, but Golos it's right where he belongs, here's why:
1 - he has NO CAST RESTRICTIONS so you can play him with no problem on get colors, you can play a colorless deck and still be able to cast him.
2- when he enters you get a land from the deck so if he gets removed you are 1 landrop from casting him next turn, thats BYPASSING THE COMMANDER TAX and you can even abuse it since is a ETB.
3 - Still on the land ETB thing, you can get ANY land including one called The World Tree wich perfectly fixes your mana as soon as it enters since you will probably have 6 lands by then (5 and the Tree) even if you are playing a deck full of basic wastes. this BYPASSES THE COLOR PIE CONCEPT.
4 - Then he has the ability to cast up to 3 spells from the top no matter their costs, not restricted by taping or once per turn, what will you do? well if you play a mono red dragons you can to cast up to 3 dragons instead of 1 on your turn so what's the point on playing another red commander? ok, how about izzet spells, cast 3 extra turn cards at once, 3 more turns, 3 more activations up to 9 more spells, good no? what about demons and extra turns but with only swamps, no need for islands thank to the world tree anyway, or how about a good stuff pile with only wastes on the mana base? how about i replace him with Jodah, he alters costs but golos cast stuff for free, ....
Do you get it now? Golos is breaking and bypassing game rules so he can do anything, and do better than almost every commander. he makes almost all other commanders bad because he can do everything with more efficiency
@@jadegrace1312 Nadu its fine, but Golos it's right where he belongs, here's why:
1 - he has NO CAST RESTRICTIONS so you can play him with no problem on get colors, you can play a colorless deck and still be able to cast him.
2- when he enters you get a land from the deck so if he gets removed you are 1 landrop from casting him next turn, thats BYPASSING THE COMMANDER TAX and you can even abuse it since is a ETB.
3 - Still on the land ETB thing, you can get ANY land including one called The World Tree wich perfectly fixes your mana as soon as it enters since you will probably have 6 lands by then (5 and the Tree) even if you are playing a deck full of basic wastes. this BYPASSES THE COLOR PIE CONCEPT.
4 - Then he has the ability to cast up to 3 spells from the top no matter their costs, not restricted by taping or once per turn, what will you do? well if you play a mono red dragons you can to cast up to 3 dragons instead of 1 on your turn so what's the point on playing another red commander? ok, how about izzet spells, cast 3 extra turn cards at once, 3 more turns, 3 more activations up to 9 more spells, good no? what about demons and extra turns but with only swamps, no need for islands thank to the world tree anyway, or how about a good stuff pile with only wastes on the mana base? how about i replace him with Jodah, he alters costs but golos cast stuff for free, ....
Do you get it now? Golos is breaking and bypassing game rules so he can do anything, and do better than almost every commander. he makes almost all other commanders bad because he can do everything with more efficiency
HEY RULES COMMITTEE DO YOUR JOB OH WAIT YOU ALL BROGH NADUS FOR STOCK COUGH COUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh lets not ban NADU