PS Audio Perfectwave DirectStream DAC - It upsamples all music to DSD
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- čas přidán 19. 01. 2020
- Thanks to the friend who lent me his PS Audio Perfectwave DirectStream DAC so I could review it. The DAC had the latest firmware installed.
Gear mentioned:
Soundaware D300REF network streamer. Connected via I2S to the PerfectWave DirectStream.
Audio-gd Master 9 headphone amp/pre-amp.
Audio-gd Master 10 integrated speaker amp.
Schiit Audio Yggdrasil Analog II DAC.
Chord Hugo 2 DAC/headphone amp.
Headphones:
Focal Utopia
Meze Empyrean
HiFiMan Susvara
Speakers:
Focal FS247
Interconnects (DAC to Master 9):
Van Den Hul The Mountain 3T
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Also thanks to MASS-Kobo for lending me a couple of studio grade microphones to do my reviews with. www.masskobo.com/e/info-e.htm - Věda a technologie
Thank you, excellent information and well presented. Love your channel.
You explain things very well. Thanks.
Very professional review without the polarizing and excessive language that some people use online. Coming from a Directstream owner (yes, I do enjoy it a lot). Oh, and subbed.
isn't this the previous model, compared to yours?
@@thecaptain2000 I believe it is the same, the first two terationsI believe was called Perfectwave and Perfectwave II. This one is Perfectwave Directstream, usually referred to as Directstream. I think that might lead to confusion sometimes.
@Currawong
Great review, Amos. Thanks.
Two products I'd like to see you review are the *ORA Sound GrapheneQ headphones* and the new *NAD Masters M33 BluOS DAC/Streamer/Amp* 👍
Ta
System synergy maybe a key here.
Also some material will sound better and some will sound worse . More forward sounding front end may benfit from laid back slightly recessed presentation of Direct Stream DAC
If Paul uses Infinity IRS speakers as his monitor and if that speaker sounds more dry and forward it could explain why did PS Audio shoot for more pulled back stage and very analog smoothness.
So just like every review your review is subjective to your system .
Schitt !!! That's a good review ...!!!!!
Interesting and great review, I’ve had one of these for a few Months now , and the items you found as issues aren’t in my system. like all equipment , it is really what you are using in your system chain that work together.. happy listening!
I appreciate your candidness and it's interesting to me that you mentioned that the direct stream doesn't have a forward presentation - P. McGowan (PS Audio) has stated many times that in his opinion proper sound stage, wherein he sights the "distance" from a microphone to the musician, should be portrayed during playback which would, in theory, put the presentation toward the rear of the speaker plane back, not forward, which would seem to fall in line with your assessment, that is, it might be intentional engineering on PS Audio's part. I don't own the Direct Stream so I'm only commenting.
Indeed! There is, or was, one well-known reviewer that pointed out that most DACs don't present the soundstage realistically. Chord seem to be at least one of the exceptions to this. That's not to say that a completely accurate representation is what everyone will enjoy though.
A good, honest review.
If your memory of the Marantz D1 classic DAC is still reliable, how do you think it compares to the PS Audio PW?
Its a bit difficult to review this DAC, since you can download other firmware versions and get a different kind of sound quality/experience.
Good point , you can choose the kind of sound signature you prefer.
Good review. I’d describe the Directstream as ‘analog’ sounding in its smoothness. I’ve had other DAC’s that were more impressive, however none that are as enjoyable to listen to.
Again, system synergy is the key, and the Directstream plugged directly into active studio monitors sounds great, whereas a Hugo feeding the same monitors was technically impressive but definitely not enjoyable…
Good review thanks. With all the different firmware available for the direct stream. I wonder if that “overly smooth” sound characteristic has changed since.
I'd love to hear a review of that iFi Zen DAC in the background. Thanks!
Coming. :)
I had the exact same experience. I liked my Gen1 Yggy over the Directstream DAC in my auditioning session. I'm glad to know my ears were not as bad I thought.
a point for the best sounding is to not place the ethernet bridge card if you use usb, choose a usb cable (vertere...) and choose the right firmware you prefer (redcloud for me), no preamp, and you will not choose the distant and veil words (or "only smooth"!), but 3d , singing, engaging, musical...
Thanks for your superb review.
Peter Qvortrup (audio note) on speaking to one of the initial designers of CD, reckons 16 bit 44.1 cannot be improved on, with increased 'resolution' bringing its own issues - one being dynamics. AN built two 'identical' dacs, one to 18bit, the other to 12 - the 12 'won' 3 out if 4 on blind listening to a panel...The findings here are interesting when baring this in mind...
PQ mentioned he would love to bring out a 14bit dac (presumably that smokes the competition) to 'p... everyone off' (quote)!
Meanwhile; Viva la Ladder!
It'd be interesting to know why they preferred the 14-bit version. Sometimes, for example, people can prefer a sound with a higher level of distortion, especially if it is even-order (like you get with some tube designs).
@@Currawong from 7.55; czcams.com/video/iVV4YDx1YbI/video.html - and it was 12 bit!
Inside the menu is a level setting (just discovered) I had it set to 'low' which required cranking up the volume. Set to 'high' works very well for me.
I wish I'd found that. Thanks for sharing.
@@Currawong I discovered that directstream have to be listened at min 85/100 to have dynamics, otherwise it's just "lifeless". Also I do not recommed it for use without a preamp (You can also use integrated amp).
There’s a noticeable difference in sound quality when using the ‘low’ (attenuated) setting. It makes everything a bit softer and less dynamic. Perhaps that was the case in this review.
@Currawong
Really?
Your whole review means nothing then . Please don't review a unit and publish your opinion with out knowing it's basic operation .
It'd help if they put that "basic operation" which doesn't exist in the manual, and I couldn't find in the menu system at the time. Even so, my opinion about the sound would be unlikely to change. This kind of design makes music sound unnaturally soft.
I own this DAC, I don't think it sounds overly smooth. It is smooth and very very clean sounding, to the point where it gets (unreal) b/c I'm not used to enjoying a piece of equipment and not finding anything wrong with it. I always play with knobs, but here it's too clean and I get kind of bored maybe?.
What are you using the DAC with?
@@skeletor2118 PS Audio Stellar GainCell and Stellar S300 Amp. I'm in my 50's and I don't want to play around with mediocre equipment anymore. I was constantly buying good but cheaper amps and DACs. Cheaper stuff is not terrible but I wasn't happy.
@Jingle Nuts True or people would stop buying more and more. I'm an idiot, I bought so many DACs and speakers.
@Steve W. No I didn't, sorry I missed your message.
Ted Smith said in an interview, that upsampling everything to 20x DSD pushes the switching noise inherent to DSD way out of the audible spectrum.
Indeed. But even double-rate DSD will do that easily.
@@Currawong I also heard from Ted in an interview that this was the lowest common multiple of all the current sample rates such that you would have synchronous upsampling for all signal before it got processed and downconverted.
@@Currawong exactly what I thought in the first place
It appears all FPGA-based DACs are not created equal. I've wondered how it compared to the Chord Electronics unit of a comparable price. Thank you for the insightful review.
Well, an FPGA is a blank slate. It very much depends on what the programmer does with it.
Indeed. And I suspect there are good better and best FPGA chips available for a coder to use. It's fascinating to me.
The BIg Deal is HOW they upsample, ie the quality of the algorithm(s)/hardware used to upsample
I think Chord is a leader in upsampling tech with their custom FPGA's and included Watt's code
Though the upgradable FPGA in this DAC is nice to see at a lower price point vs the DAVE
i own the direct stream dac and ive got to disagree with a lot of things youve said. you may want to get a good set of speakers first before reviewing the dac.. my sound stage is from wall to wall with depth of the band playing in front of me..the instruments have as much space as my room will allow. i also use ps audio's bhk pre amp and the bhk 250 amp. i also dont have a problem with volume.its as loud as i want. its crystal clear but not harsh. i do agree though its sometimes too smooth. but rather that than be harsh.
Here's an idea for a dac. I hope no one steals this idea. You decode the digital in a number of different ways : dsd bitstream Delta Sigma ladder etc all in one box and the user can control how much of each type of decoding they want to put in the overall signal. It would remember what percent of each type of decoding you used on each track and of course because it's so unique you can charge $20k per unit.
You can already do that yourself. Buy as many dacs as you want, hook them all up via an optical splitter, and buy a nice mixing console - mix to taste, output to speakers. I guess there could be timing issues depending on how long the 'processing' of each dac took, idk.
@@Artcore103 exactly. Latency is not a high priority for Audiophile dacs and each one is going to be different.
@Kyron
It's called EQ. As long as the recording captures the original tonality and dynamics, along with reproducing the soundstage and imaging accurately, just use your "tone" controls or EQ.
This is why JBL/Harman Labs and others have created a specific "Target Curve" as a standard or reference.
@@bbfoto7248 it's not as simple is that. According to Rob Watts many D/A converters introduce noise floor modulation. There are also timing errors. The human nervous system and perceive timing change is as little as 4 microseconds.
Nope, sry that's incorrect.
I love hear what is your take on that silver soundaware d300 below PS Audio Directstream DAC👌. Does it matched well with PS Audio Dac via I2s?
It did. I was talking to Soundaware, and they are working on a firmware upgrade, so I haven't shot a review yet.
This is why I like this channel.
How long did you have the DSD DAC plugged in for, before listening to it? It takes days for the circuitry to stabilize and sound its best. I can tell you this, in my system with the DSD DAC being fed by the DMP transport, music sounds lively and very analog like.
A few days.
The manual suggests leaving it on standby for a few watts an hour; alternatively, there is a three hour warm up time.
It's misleading the way they market it but it's not actually 20x DSD, maybe they're saying standard DSD is 20x cd quality? idk, but it converts the music to 2.8MHz DSD (1x) then apparently again to 5.6MHz DSD (2x)...why would you do that indeed. I prefer Jriver media center upsampling everything to 11.2Mhz DSD (4x) using the open source SoX libraries and only the one time, sounds amazing. How does this work for video? Is there latency introduced from all the processing?
Sometimes it's nice to have a switch on the wall or front panel. No good reason a DAC that costs that much won't allow multiple options of usage. It's always a matter of computer speed it seems. Once the freq goes that high, the demands on the cpu increase exponentially plus noise. Great reality of things. Really great job with your honest review. Diogenes star to you.
I really needed this review, because I’ve been idolising PS Audio for a while from afar, despite all the red flags being thrown around. This was a down to earth critical analysis with a succinct conclusion that I can get behind.
thisrocks88 i have used DSD and TT 1 side by side DSD is smoother... but DSD DAC is way ahead...
Atishay Singh yeah but that’s the TT 1 :) regardless, it’s not a sound signature that suits my preference for music. I spent my late teens and most of my 20s playing in different (indie / shoegaze) bands until work became more important, but accordingly I will never stop craving dynamics in my music. For any partially read/clued-in audiophile, it only comes down to a matter of a preference. The sound signature described, is not one I would enjoy. No matter how good at it, it was. It doesn’t mean in any way that others wouldn’t of that they would somehow be wrong to. After you are spending $1000+ on audio equipment there is no more right and wrong it’s just personal taste.
thisrocks88 you are right on personal taste bit... but direct stream can’t do dynamics is a tough pill to swallow... and have heard the TT2 and some other 5k - 10 k cdp players... May be the comparison done is with an all tube ahead... because its not overly smooth... The vocals are the best of any DAC ( above the dave). Not heard the bartok DCS... The preamp is weak to dedicated pre... also their is option in the Direct stream for a low and high gain...
Atishay Singh I over simplified my point by stating it “lacked dynamics” but that was purely for brevity in an already long comment. I appreciate your counter point and opinion. Ultimately, I had an unhealthy nagging bias towards PS Audio which this review has helped quell / bring the product back down to Earth.
Me too!
How can I dim the display without remote control ? Thanks.
I own a DSD Sr. and I do not know of any of other way of dimming out (pitch black) the display than using the remote control using the DIM button.
If you attempt to dim the display via the display itself, you have to select the cog button in the upper left corner, then select the "SETUP" button and then select the dimming you want on the bottom dimming scale: however, a dimming selection of "0" does not extinguish the display: it will keep a minimum display brightness.
How can I extract DSD from my oppo player to an external DAC? Upscale Audio sells an extractor, but it’s a bit pricey! Thanks
You can't. You have to find something like an old Sony Playstation which can be use to rip SACDs, and it's a bit tricky. Search for "SACD ripping" for info.
Not sure if the "Passive Transformer Output" is responsible for the less than ideal dynamics. It also has kind of high output impedance of 100/200ohm
I don't think so. All the gear I use has input impedances of over 1kOhm. It's because DSD has issues with transients -- it's the very nature of it. I guess that up-sampling to 20x DSD (some of their docs say 10x, though that might have been earlier firmware) was to try and get around this, but it doesn't fix the imaging issues.
@@Currawong- Imaging issues? I have none of that with my JBL 4365s being fed 450+ watts of quad balanced power. You say tomato, I say 'tomoto'
A new firmware will be released and DAC will sound completely different.
Thanks for your detailed review Amos, sorry I can’t support Patreon for now. I’ll be back though.
They wanted it to sound like a Vinyl Record
Hhm Mate how to put this. What you are describing is the dac and its tuning, it is tuned like that on purpose, which with the rest of electronics being up to the task gives you an 3d image behind the speakers. That is their whole philosophy and what they are going for. They want it to be a as if there is a live band in behind the speaker(inmost cases behind the wall/in the wall). what you are experiencing is mismatch between most of the amps and the dac, each of them have different tuning and imaging(as in where they want to place things). Have had that with far cheaper gear, but done by two respected companies together sounded all wrong. This dac and all of the gear PS audio makes is meant to give you concert hall type of experience, with perfect reproduction of live non-amplified music. Each companies tunes their products differently to give you different 3d imaging(what each considers to be refence). I personally prefer the studio type of sound tuning. But you have wrong expectations here, nothing should ever jump at you or move in front of the speakers here, everything has to be behind them, hope you still have it and can checkout if you can manage it to do it properly in your system.
I get the "3D image behind the speakers" with the Hugo 2 and better. Actually more than that, the Chord gear correctly presents the audio image depth clearly. The PerfectWave didn't have that. It just pushed everything far back even when it shouldn't. Singer or player up front? Too bad, they are pushed back as well.
@@Currawong OK, just had the impression that they tuned it like that on purpose. Can not say i know how it sounds, have only red about psaudio products. Strange that it seems so underwhelming, compared to other stuff. But thanks for your honest answer and observations. To me it just serms strange that a lot of manufacturers chose that tuning
That is an older remote. At some point, PS offered a MAJOR hardware upgrade that is user installed. Does this machine have the "gut" upgrade?
As far as I am aware, the upgrade was to make the older PerfectWave DAC into a PerfectWave DirectStream DAC. The only upgrades to the DirectStream DAC that I am aware of were firmware-based, and that was already installed.
That is correct.
Networking (802.3) is definitely a better way to go for audio transport. You got much more flexibility and higher speeds.
i agree with you, the realism of drums and the chimbals ! but i think that more people like the smooth sound and easy listining!! i on the opposite side, the harshness and realism and find all the transients in the sound.
From what I understand is that PS audio offers software updates from time to time that change this DAC's sound.
I forgot to mention that this has the latest firmware. However I don't think it any firmware update can fix DSD.
@@Currawong a lot of people prefer older firmwares
This is a very good point, I wish he would have tried other firmwares in his review. Snowmas is excellent and some people prefer it over Windom.
Ryan Eickmeyer I go back and forth between Snowmass and Windom and have determined that one sounds better with one of my systems and the vice verse for the other😊
Yah, they use fpga chips, that is why ps audio is able to change how the dac sounds.
I know up sampling maybe a controversial subject for some people but I will tell you, if something sounds good, it sounds good - we all know that we don't have any scientific measurements for why something sounds particularly good to an individual. But I will tell you that I have a relatively inexpensive Panasonic DVD player ( although the price of this was not inexpensive to me when they were new but we all have our own thoughts on prices) that plays DVD audio and hdcd. It up samples at all different rates and for whatever reason, and for whatever is going on internally, the output just sounds better. It's pretty cool. Why argue with that? Lol :-) I'm a big fan of PS audio and Paul McGowan and staff. But, this is way too pricey for me :-)
Perhaps I wasn't listening closely enough, but I don't recall your ever mentioning what source you were using with the DAC; that is, the transport involved. I can also imagine Paul McGowan's reaction is he ever watches the video. I think he would be thunder-struck and would probably say something like "This isn't the way we designed the DAC" or "It doesn't sound like that when we listen to it". He seems to be a stickler for dynamic range so it's hard to imagine him endorsing a product that has a soft, distant sound. For the record I have just purchased the DAC and the PerfectWave SACD Transport and hope to have both by Christmas - fingers crossed!
The transport would have either been USB from an audio-dedicated computer, or the Soundaware D300REF below the DAC. Usually I try both to test the quality of the USB input. Regardless, the Perfectwave sounded the same when I tried it at the Tokyo headphone festivals. I really would like to hear a system with one where someone doesn't have this impression of the DAC, but I'm more inclined at the moment to feel that some people simply like very blunted transients when listening to music.
@@Currawong I guess all I can add is that I hope I'm not bitterly disappointed when the units arrive and I've installed them and have had a few auditions. I listen to a lot of classical music and I'm hoping that a symphony orchestra will be presented in a totally believable way, through a range of different dynamic contrasts and that includes percussion like cymbals, tympani and bass drum. (The rest of my equipment is, I believe, capable if providing that). I also like progressive rock so the same hope applies. I will definitely be using the I²S interconnection (with HDMI cable) and will be also hooking up the USB output from an audio-dedicated computer output to the USB input of the DAC for hi-rez files.
Have you got any plans to look at the Fiio BTR5?
Yes. It's on my desk awaiting me shooting the review of it.
@@Currawong Nice. I just got mine yesterday. I like it, but it doesn't sound as good as the mojo with my FH7, even balanced. Not sure why I was expecting it to. It's super convenient though and has allowed me to use my Note 10+ for music. The balanced out sounds better than the Fiio M9 balanced out to me, which is good. Look forward to your review.
I’m familiar with this dac & I’d have to say this review doesn’t make a lot of sense. Can I ask how many hours play time it has, because it sounds to me like it hasn’t been run in. This dac needs at least 100 hours before it even begins to open up, when it does the difference is quite dramatic. Also does it have the latest firmware in it, again because the difference between each version is quite dramatic also.
The firmware is the latest version. As for run-in hours, I'd have to ask the owner. It was left running for many hours when I had it here though, so if there were any more changes to be had, then I imagine they'd have happened. I think the real issue is simply that some people think that the smoothed-over presentation of the music is more pleasant.
Currawong The only reply I can give to you is that every PSA DSD must sound totally different from each other, simply because the one I heard sounded very different to that which you describe here. Just to add, I’m not favouring this dac in any way & I don’t own it.
Great review, my Dad actually owns this DAC and I generally agree with your opinion of it; smooth but veiled. I'd love for you to do a review on the Topping D90 DAC which measures great (better even than the other DACs that you mentioned in this review). Question is does it also sound better?
That's a valid question. Measurements are done using sweeps and tones, not music. It's like buying a car purely on its dyno performance and nothing else.
Ryan Burr have the Topping D90 for 8 weeks now and preferred it to my Pavane(which I subsequently sold). Received a second hand Perfect Wave mk2 yesterday and there’s no contest, really.
The difference is not subtle. The Perfect Wave sounds just bigger everywhere...blackness of background, soundstage, presentation of vocals and music, also it is very smooth and engaging.
But music can be represented as multiple principal tones. So a multitone measurement is an accurate approximation
Amos I really think that you need to test the dCS Bartok. I used to own a TT2 and recently upgraded to the Bartok. IMO the Bartok is a big improvement over the TT2. It is more expensive but has much more to offer in terms of functionality too. I actually think that it is better than a TT2 with the mscaler or the Dave.
The Bartok has inbuilt streaming, is available with a headphone amp, and also upsamples to either dxd or dsd. For me it is my endgame dac until I can afford the next version of the rossini when it is released.
I need to ask the distributor. It might not be easy since I'm in Japan, and there is no benefit for them lending me one for a foreign review. You never know though.
@IMMO Lab I have not had a chance to compare them. I don't know anyone who owns the terminator. My friend is bringing over his msb premiere dac this weekend with the upgraded power supply and his Dave mscaler combo to compare with the bartok.
I am not sure how the terminator would compare to the bartok I feel like the play in different leagues.
@IMMO Lab the bartok is still $13,5000 without the headphone section. I would put the terminator against the TT2 or the Metrum Pavane.
If I could I would have a complete PS Audio stack but that like 20k connected to B&W 800 D3 it would be 50k The only problem would be knowing Paul doesn't like B&W tweeters.
3:10 ..... now, im not an engineer....but i think you may have misstated. I2S doesnt 'separate out' the data....
unlike other formats which scrunch everything together, I2S leaves things _right where they are_ and transmits unmolested. which is why its a big deal...
im pretty sure im correct. feel free to tell me if you think im wrong.
Instead of 2 x I2S inputs, there should be one plus a standard HDMI input like the BDA3 or most current receivers have
HDMI can carry native DSD (DoP not needed) plus at least 192Khz and higher PCM
I like the idea of using an Ethernet connector for I2S vs HDMI connector, though both allow the wrong cable signals to be plugged in.
LArge numbers of Sony branded BluRay models of the past 10 years output native DSD over HDMI and play SACDs (and CD/DVD/BluRay ofcourse)
It's a nice thought, but from what I understand, actual HDMI compatibility would open a whole other can of worms for the manufacturer to ensure compliancy with, which would cause other problems in the process.
the reason it's lower in volume is because it doesn't include a line stage, only a filter straight off that 1-bit signal, amazingly (imo). It's in line with the philosophy of DSD. Check out their technical talk to learn more. czcams.com/video/Wv1XWedFgDY/video.html Regardless, they should probably include a line stage.
There are two output levels: almost. 0.3 volt, and about 10 times this, just under 3 volts. I'll probably try the lower one, as I have powerful amps & efficient, Klipsch speakers. `Headroom!' Some years ago, Paul McGowan said that you don't need a preamp. Now, he says that his best, BHK Preamp, makes the music sound better. More separation of instruments. Why adding, even a fine piece of equipment, `Improves,' sound, I'd like to know ~
Did you make sure the 20db attenuator is not engaged?
I didn't know there was one in there! From what I can see, it is there because the noise level in the DAC is so high.
@@Currawong Cool, that and if used as a preamp direct into a higher-gain amp you can set it. Heard that the resistors it switches in can bork the sound (maybe in a different way on top of overly smooth, not sure). Just made sure you knew.
According to Paul's logic, you can't skip a dedicated preamp.
Yes and no. He says a pre sounds better if it is really-really high end, or else going directly in to the power amps is preferable. Though I don't see how you can avoid a pre anyway, if you have other components like a turntable, or a CD player, as this is obviously not a real preamp, it is a DAC that can adjust volume.
I think every one is way to accustomed to hearing bright and edgy in the name of detail. have used chord Mojo, TT 1 , and DSD DAC... have heard TT2 serious auditions... PS DSD is ahead... yes it is smoother... its not overly smooth... the chord dacs are lighter and flatter... bright if wrongly paired...
I think it's that a lot of music is "bright and edgy" and the Chord DACs don't editorialise that, unless you select the orange or red filter.
Might be because this thing measures like your typical phone DAC.
So little DAC for so much money...we need to get you a Lampizator and Mytek Manhattan to really see what they can do in comparison.
I have a modded Mytek Brooklyn DAC + with an upgraded SBooster linear power supply I LOVE!
I wish I could try both. I've briefly tried Lampizator DACs at shows, and I really love how they make music sound. The Mytek DACs may be do-able later on.
Isn't it supposedly interpolate between samples instead of smoothing filter over the samples? If it is really interpolation, I don't understand how it ends up smoothing everything out.
That is how PCM filters work. Converting everything to DSD (actually all modern Sigma Delta DACs internally convert to DSD before outputting) is considerably different.
This dac is more suited for people who prefer uncompressed audio. Compressed audio adds emphasis in areas to make things sound punchy. Some would say David Chesky brings clarity to recorded music.
Sounds like you had a bad firmware load. It’s quite common, and will improve if you roll back 2-3 firmwares, and then come back to Windom
Bad firmware load should not be this common. Now Currawong is the great ears kinda guy just because PS audio don't have their firmware in order. Sad story.
And what would that change exactly?
wating for magni heresy
The PS Audio DSD doesn't have a dedicated headphone out or internal headphone amp like the Hugo 2 you are comparing it to. Paul Mcgowan(owner of PS Audio) has stated in his youtube channel that he's not a headphone person...sure, he may listen to some headphones if he's exercising. He has stated before, in his youtube channel, that for serious listening he prefers to include the room(so the music is staged in front of him - behind the speakers - not inside his head) and he enjoys the feel that sub-sonics provide when they hit him in the chest. Sure headphones can provide bass, but floor shaking and chest pounding sub-sonics is something headphones simply can never provide. So, the PS Audio DSD was never intended or voiced for headphone use as its main listening vehicle. Instead, the PS Audio DSD, was intended and voiced for speakers and ideally full range speakers with a good subwoofer. Headphone listeners may want to stick with the Hugo 2 or an audioquest dragonfly. These options have a DAC with an internal headphone amp specifically voiced for headphone use. But, comparing a headphone specific DAC to a DAC intended for full range speakers(initially voiced using the Infinity IRS V reference speakers no less) is not comparing apples and oranges..it's more like comparing apples and battleships. Further, it's discrediting to yourself as an up and coming(and I would argue talented) reviewer to make such a comparison.
Hi Ryan, I think you may have missed the point of my review. There is nothing here about being "voiced for headphones" as the variability in headphones and what they are capable of is as great as speakers. Shaking the floor and feeling subsonics hit you in the chest has nothing to do with digital reproduction, but is specific to whether or not the speakers you have, and the amplification of those speakers, is capable of reproducing that. If you want subsonics, it is easier and cheaper to get them from headphones, even high-end headphones, though you don't get the feeling of that.
The point of my using headphones is because firstly I'm primarily a headphone person. I couldn't use anything larger than small active speakers for many years, so I primarily listened to music with headphones. Since the resolution of my headphone system exceeds that of my speaker system, when *listening for detail* I use high-end headphones. Also, one pair of headphones, the Focal Utopia, is not only extremely resolving, but also capable of delivering the sense of depth in music, making them ideal for comparing the ability that a DAC has at reproducing the soundstage, at least for the sake of comparing equipment.
So what I found was, as I said in the review, that my impression *from both speakers and headphones* is that the PerfectWave DirectStream gives, essentially, only one kind of "soundstage", where everything is deep, even when *it should not be*. I hope that makes things clear.
@@Currawong Headphones can provide an excellent sound stage and clarity. They are also not encumbered by room coloration(due to reflections, standing waves...etc) - unlike full range speakers. Headphones have benefits that full range speakers do not, such as omitting room coloration. Full range speakers have benefits that headphones do not, such as (chest pounding/feet shaking) subsonics. Liking the experience of one more than the other is subjective. When I previously brought up subsonics I was simply stating why the owner of PS Audio(Paul Mcgowan) prefers the characteristics of full range speakers over headphones. I was alluding to the fact that this is a purpose build machine, designed - purposely - for full range speakers. For example: a rally car has nubby tires, massive suspension travel, and weight distribution(to name a few) that make it very effective at off-road rally car racing. A rally car, while able to race on the same track as an on-road touring car, will not be as effective - on the road - as an on-road touring car. These two machines(cars) are both purpose built for their own unique function. In the same way -- a DAC, purpose built or 'voiced' for full range speakers - while able to play the same music - will not be as effective as a DAC purpose built for headphones specifically and vice-versa. Your review, while excellent for headphones specifically, left the viewer feeling that what you experienced resided across both headphones and full range speakers. My argument is that your generalized conclusion is inaccurate. You can't test a purpose build and designed DAC(PS Audio's DSD) - voiced for full range speakers - using headphones and then compare it with a purpose build and designed DAC(Chord's Hugo 2) - voiced for headphones - while again, using headphones and then make a generalized conclusion about which one is best for BOTH headphones AND full range speakers. That is simply not a well thought out or scientifically complete explanation of reality. On the other hand - if you are, in fact, saying the PS Audio DAC is overly "smooth" and the "soundstage feels extremeIy far away" on full range speakers specifically...then that is a fault of your reference full range speaker system and I would task you with testing the PS Audio DSD with set of full range speakers and powerful enough amp that is up to the task. Take the PS Audio DSD to a hifi shop and play it through a pair of Focal Kontas or Kef Reference 5s. You may just find that it sings.
Great job on the review Curra. PS Audio gives you a ton of choices then hamstrings the machine with upsampling and weak output V ?....sigh. Asking 6K for this thing is a little steep although I am intrigued by the network card and where that tech is headed. I hope all is well with you and the family Curra.
PS: A TOSlink input, really ? LMFAO.
all dacs internally upsample even if they don't mention it. this is the very basis of modern dac technology. they're complicated things, but you can find this out without much trouble if you search for it. bottom line: there is ZERO downside to upsampling. there's not necessarily any upside either though, that depends! sample rate affects only one thing: the highest frequency that can be accurately represented or played back. there is a lot of misunderstanding about dacs and "high res" audio in general. high sample rates and higher bit depths are good for studio mastering, due to the the long chain of things - components/DAW filters etc. - the music has to go through. at the end, it can be downsampled to 44.1khz 16bit and not lose any quality. unless you think you can hear over 20khz... more often than not, trying to playback frequencies above 20khz is going to produce intermodulation distortion more than anything else. CD quality music reproduces ANY waveform with 100% accuracy assuming that waveform does not contain any frquencies - or rate of change - above ~20khz. no stairstepping, no limitations on timing, and easily up to 120+db of dynamic range due in part to dithering, but also other reasons. if you want double blind studies that present 24bit 192khz music, and then that same source downsampled, to participants such studies do exist! it may or may not surprise you to learn that participants correctly chose the "high res" system approximately........ wait for it..... 50 percent of the time. certainly some dacs sound better than others, but it's not ever been because of sample rate, and 24+ bits is awesome, but only because now i can use a digital volume control - that's it.
Hi Peete. If you use a Sysconcepts 1300 strand optical cable, it can be better than USB with some DACs, as it doesn't transmit noise, ground loops, nor do you have a USB receiver that has to be in turn isolated as they generate noise too! It's just a pity TOSLINK became the standard, as it's a crappy connector.
As for network cards -- a Rasberry Pi running DietPi or Ropieee gives you a Roon endpoint for
Dsd is the way to go , research it very well and you’ll start to understand why , for me it’s vinyl playback then DSD playback and then PCM
PS Audio DSD uses a FPGA at its core, which is fully reprogrammable and changes the sound drastically with each firmware upgrade. So, which firmware were you using during your testing? Also, this is a direct stream DAC, sure they allow you to listen to PCM too...but, it's a direct stream DAC as the name suggests. So, were you listening to DSD or PCM? If you were using a computer were you using a program like 'bitperfect' to ensure the computer wasn't upsampling the PCM 44.1/16 signal to 192/24 in the background without you knowing...most operating systems do this and people don't even know. Paul(owner of PS audio) and Ted Smith(creator of PS Audio DSD) go over the importance of using high-end USB cables when going from the computer to the DAC - the PS audio DSD is specifically sensitive to this. So, which USB cable were you using for your testing? Finally, how long were you testing this DAC for...hours, days or weeks? How many tracks did you go through? Reviewers normally A/B equipment for fairly long periods of time to ensure anomalies are isolated out. All these things can vastly muddle up testing results. Saying a DAC is "smooth" is essentially saying it's inaccurate. Low-fi systems are "smooth" because nothing sounds bad...but nothing sounds great either. This is a bold statement, for a reviewer with arguably fairly mid-range equipment, to make. Several reviewers, with very resolving systems, say it punches above its $6000 price point. Anyways, it would be helpful if you included some of the parameters that you used to test with, as I brought up above.
One more note I would I would like to add, which is possibly the most important. The PS Audio DSD doesn't have a dedicated headphone out. So, which headphone amp were you connecting to the PS Audio DSD? Paul Mcgowan(owner of PS Audio) has stated in his youtube channel that he's not a headphone person...sure, he may listen to some headphones if he's exercising. He has stated before, in his youtube channel, that for serious listening he prefers to include the room(so the music is staged in front of him - behind the speakers - not inside his head) and he enjoys the feel that sub-sonics provide when they hit him in the chest. Sure headphones can provide bass, but floor shaking and chest pounding sub-sonics is something headphones simply can never provide. So, the PS Audio DSD was never intended or voiced for headphone use as its main listening vehicle. Instead, the PS Audio DSD, was intended and voiced for speakers and ideally full range speakers with a good subwoofer. Headphone listeners may want to stick with the Hugo 2 or an audioquest dragonfly. These options have a DAC with an internal headphone amp specifically voiced for headphone use. But, comparing a headphone specific DAC to a DAC intended for full range speakers(initially voiced using the Infinity IRS V reference speakers no less) is not comparing apples and oranges..it's more like comparing apples and battleships. Further, it's discrediting to yourself as an up and coming(and I would argue talented) reviewer to make such a comparison.
I was using the latest firmware. If you watched the video, you'll already have answers to the other questions. :)
@@Currawong I watched the video. You never said which firmware you used...I guess we have that answered now. You very quickly glossed over which headphone amp you used - something D300(what amp is that, who makes it?)...I guess we can say that counts. I'm still waiting on the answers to the other several important questions - smile face emoji
I really think you didn't watch the video. My main headphone amp, which I mentioned multiple times, is right next to my head the whole time. However since some people aren't familiar with a couple of the brands, I'm going to add the details to the description.
@@Currawong I watched the video. Thank you for adding the brand names in the details.
want' it the perfectwave the older model of the PS audio dac? I beleive the one who transform everything into DSD is the model that followed that one
WOW !!! Remote control included for a 6 000 $. NUTS
The point was that it can even control the power conditioners/regenerators, while other all in one controls only control sources...
I could almost predetermine the outcome of this C... review, lets all purchase Chord Hugo 2 and be done with it....., takes me back to the AV Solaris review and a few others 🙄
I reckon a good point was made when someone pointed out Darko's review of it. In 2014 when it was released, it might have been considered as being a great DAC, but since then Chord, Schiit, Holo Spring, Audio-gd and Denafrips have released DACs which cost about half as much and, in the case of the R2R DACs, can give a smooth sound without the compromises that DSD up-sampling seems to have.
In one of the comments this reviewer did not know that there was 2 settings for running with or without a preamp for volume efficiency, a basic operational miss . For myself this invalidates the whole review and I dont even own this unit .
No such setting existed when I had it here, and I went through the menu options multiple times. No such setting is written about in the manual, which doesn't even list the specifications.
As one owning PS Audio DSD, Holo Spring, and Chord Dave right now, Dave has the clarity, Spring has the sparkle, DSD has the realism. I agree that DSD is a smooth sounding DAC. But I feel it is closer to the real-life sound instead of a flat sound. Of course, people have different preferences. The genres of music matters. In the end, the definition of high fidelity relies on the expression of life-like experience. I am not claiming DSD is the best among all. It is a great choice and wonderful experience. Upsampling is not a bad thing, and not necessarily smooth out everything. Ask people who use HQplayer or Roon. I am sure they will give a different expression of upsampling. Just my 2 cents. Peace
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think for a lot of people, "smooth" means "real" or "natural" whereas if you listen to live music, it's actually the opposite.
@@Currawong I do not think the "smoothness" means the opposite of a lack fo dynamic. Instead, it smooths the sine waves during the upsampling. It does not change the magnitude or the wavelength of the wave. The details and the "punch" remains the same. But it will not change the naturality or realism. It comes down to the preferences, of course.
@@bearwarrior2011
We don't listen to sine waves. And even if we did, sine waves are not dynamic.
If you listen to live music, most of it has incredible dynamics...horns, strings...and drums, as Amos mentioned.
I'm a drummer and saxophonist. If you stood within 10 feet of me while I played, I could make you wince with a snare drum rim shot or when blasting a high register note on my sax!
Good, expensive, "accurate" audio equipment *should reproduce these dynamics* if it is captured in the recording!
If I intentionally play my sax or drums smooth, you should hear it as being smooth in the recording.
But if I crack a rim shot on the snare drum, or crash a cymbal, or blast a note on my sax, it should jump out at you!
I want you to experience what it sounds like when I am playing live!
I don't want you to hear my music so that it ALL sounds warm, dull, and mushy if I intended it to be dynamic!
Put simply, any audio "device" in your signal chain should perfectly reproduce what is in the recording. Nothing more, nothing less.
you should not change anything on the audio file or CD disc. Many songs do not have good sound quality and it is not DAC's fault. if you have a 44.1khz 16 bit then you should play them like that.
if you are in a studio listening to a band and you play the music afterwards through the same speakers then they should sound the same as you heard before. then you have the perfect dac.
PS Audio is closing these out for the new MKII... I have one in my rack right now... I found it rather boring, overly smooth is an understatement, meh comes to mind. I cannot believe they sold these for $6000! I broke out my little $80 SU-1 and it honestly sounded better. This DirectStream MKI reminds me of the Cambridge DacMagic lineup. I need to crack the case on this DirectStream and see if they stuffed a DacMagic and a brick in there.
"20 times DSD"
As in 20 x 'DSD' which is DSD64 so DSD1280
Or DSD20
Glasliam
Finding it hard to take this review at face value.
Reading this alternative review points to where the above review probably goes wrong:
darko.audio/2014/08/ps-audio-perfectwave-directstream-review-part-2-around-the-world/
Why? I agree with Darko (noting that it is a 2014 review -- much has changed in 6 years). He wrote "Picking a nit with the DirectStream: lower bass notes sometimes come across as a little indistinct. I’d wager this is a function of the DirectStream’s smoother, more relaxed personality. After all, kick drums and bass guitar slaps contain more than just low frequencies - crispness and attack ride in on the higher frequencies that gift-wrap the lower notes. The DirectStream is a meal that’s less overt with transient spice. "
He was also comparing it against an Oppo (they sounded quite "digital" and "glarey" to me) and Auralic, which I'm not a fan of either. Much that has come about since then, such as the Yggdrasil and Chord gear, sits between DACs like the Oppo and the PerfectWave and I reckon provides better value.
@@Currawong You may be right about value. The point I took from the Darko review was that some differences come down to voicing and personal taste. Your reviews are very informative, by the way.
with my B&W 804D2... this dac sings. i disagree with almost everything he says.
i wonder if his opinion would change if he moved up the chain in speakers.
I don't think a DAC "sings". Performers do that. My interest is in how well a product or system delivers that performance. Fantastic if you got it doing that well in yours.
@@Currawong , possibly you would be more comfortable with this description.....
inserting this DAC...no other changes... the soundstage quadrupled in size. taller, wider, deeper.
the strings of instruments became 'visibly' round.... so much more to say.
i was/am moved to the core. there may be better out there, but i doubt ill ever know.
Paul is not going to like this review.
He'll be fine with it. Everything PS Audio does decision-wise has a reasonable and logical explanation.
My fiio m11 pro Does all pcm to dsd for only $800 when it came out. that DAC is way overpriced. and the m11 pro has Thx built in.
This DAC is quite a bit different -- it doesn't just convert the music to DSD. All the same, I feel it has lost its value.
Sounds like the PS Audio wasn't a good match for your system. I have fast speakers, high slew rate amps with low damping and a high end subwoofer so the dynamics come out very convincingly and rock and roll is exciting to listen to with solid bass. I don't encounter the sonic limitations that you describe with the PS Audio DS DAC MkI, and I don't believe that's what's limiting the performance of your system. Perhaps it's been unintentionally optimized to minimize the harshness of other digital sources, because the PS Audio DS DAC is among the best, bar none.
Not the first time I'd tried one. Most DSD-upsampling gear I've tried sounded unnaturally soft and unlike actual instruments.
This DAC has high amounts of intermodulation distortion, harmonic distortion and has poor dynamic range. If I was paying that much for a DAC I'd like it to be able to atleast resolve 16bit CD correctly.
@Larry Niles the noise floor and dynamic range is only capable of about 90db, CD is 96db It doesn't measure well at all and that's the facts, subjectively it sounds soft and fat. If you love the "perfect"wave good for you but there's no point lying to yourself about it's poor performance.
Due to the ability to upload firmware, the review, while informative, does not reflect the current state of the product. There have been numerous updates to the firmware since this review. The most recent Sunlight FW drop is said to make significant improvements worth overall performance. So, I take this with a grain of salt.
Maybe so, but the real problem is that DSD up-sampling, no matter how advanced the modulator, will always result in a sound that is overly soft and rolled-off transients that sound unnatural.
@@Currawong I have great respect for your reviews/opinions. I bought a Aurouasound HEADA headphone amp after listening to a review you did on it.
Having said that, it would seem DSD would have more subtle detail/resolution than PCM. The SACDs I have that also have PCM CD layers clearly show better sound via the SACD (DoP) to the Chord TT DAC.
It is interesting that PS Audio had a lot of S/W releases to get the sound to it's best.
Found this assessment on the subtle deltas between DSD and PCM:
DSD has several improvements over PCM:
DSD has an improved soundstage
Better dynamics
More detailed without sounding analytical
The music had more room to breathe
The music is more emotional
Less hearing-fatiguing effects
I don't love harsh I love smooth audio.
9:51 I've never seen drummer sitting up close. They are always in the back of the band.
Marketing....no real world point upsampling to dsd.
And as per your assessment of dsd generally, I think you need to pay more attention to the actual recording. There's such a huge differential in the implementation.
Shame there's no real standard.
It seems to me, much of this dac is just gimmick. Likely designed to appeal to those with high end gear, who buy mostly by name and price without genuine listening.
Informative vid - thank you Amos. 🎵
Sorry but DSD struggling with transients doesn't sound serious. At least mathematically - no, it does not struggle more than PCM. If it really smoothens the sound, reason should be elsewhere.
See here: www.head-fi.org/threads/watts-up.800264/post-13934433
@@Currawong Thanks for the link, but a reference to a proper paper or AES article would be highly appreciated. I am familiar with stability, noise modulation and other DSD issues but have not heard about "transient issue".
Also, those few times when I had a chance to compare live performance with both PCM and DSD recordings from the same analog console, I like to think that DSD was closer to that live performance. Then again, of course, I didn't do blind tests, so my thoughts are of no relevance, same as, probably, reviewers hearing differences without any proof in the blind tests.
Sorry for not being able to go through that endless thread where somebody has an agenda also.
I'd be cautious of AES papers, where there are agendas as well. That being said, I've compared all sorts of DSD playback vs. PCM and in cases where a regular DS-based DAC is used, the edges of notes are clearly rounded off. That may be more pleasant than the default filters in many DACs, but I definitely wouldn't call anything that sounded blunted and soft "more natural" as many people tend to do. Live music is far from softened.
So, in other words, not recommended. Especially, for $6,000 dollars. 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
Have you seen Amir's measurement of this dac . It's measures horribly. Distortion is all over the place. What you describe as smoothness is just loss in micro details because of dac having only 60db of distortion free range and 10bits of resolution.
And then again you straight up dismiss his measurements . There is nothing this dac does that a 150$ delta Sigma of the shelf dac chip can do 10times better. At least Yggdrasil measures good for an r2r dac.
I don't read Amir's site, nor care about his measurements. Since he has clearly botched and manipulated measurements in the past, I can hardly trust the guy to be right now.
@@Currawong I dont know how or when he manipulated his measurements, i dont believe that to be true. i dont know what he could possibly gain from manipulating his results since all his gears are either loaned or donated to him or bought by himself.
Also his measurements are all inline with the known facts. R2r dacs will always measure poor becuase they can't make the resistors precise enough at least for resonable amount of money anyway.
The problem is reviewers like you misleading the general public that the expensive gear always sound good even when it measures poorly. I am not saying the best measuring dacs will always sound good always because some people will like some frequency bumbs or distortions with their music , but eveything that can be heard can be measured .
This DAC is a piece of super expensive junk.
And it does it for no useful reason except marketing
Like your reviews. But ps audio is way over priced know matter what the make. To me I would not buy any of their products.
Get to the point
Get to the point
Get to the point
Bye
its a load of snake oil
Well, no, it does what it claims to do, I just don't think what it does is worth paying that much money for. Some people really like it though.
@@Currawong Amos the only thing this DAC does well is jitter. The Mojo runs rings around this DAC, sound quality and measurements.