How I Made My Other Face Mill
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- G'day everyone,
Been a little under the weather this week so I didn't get much of a chance to get into the workshop. Thankfully I had enough footage from an older project to stitch together a video in premiere when it decided stop crashing.
The video is how I made my other face mill which I have used in projects such as the big V block video. Unlike the other one which uses square inserts, I am using a set of CCGT inserts that I don't use for the lathe. These inserts should allow me to machine up to a 90 degree corner.
I hope you enjoy the video.
Mill: Sieg x2.7l
Lathe; Hafco Al 250g
Timestamps
0:00 - Introduction
1:24 - Lathing
5:06 - Milling
9:53 - Assembly and Testing
#machining #diy - Věda a technologie
Hey guys. Been a bit under the weather this week and couldn't make it to the workshop to film anything. Thankfully I have a few spare videos which I could edit up. This video is a bit out of order as I have used this tool in the few videos already, but I thought it would be interesting to see how I made it. Hopefully I don't sound too out of out of it in the voice over parts. Hope you still enjoy it. Cheers
Get well soon.
It's a nice tool, thanks!
👍💪✌
You take care of yourself first. The videos can come later.
Mate any vid is a bonus from you 👍🏽
Feel better soon!
It seems like a big part of being a machinist is just making tools that let you make more complex tools, that let you make EVEN MORE complex and specialized tools. Looks like a rabbit hole my wallet won't agree with but I hope to able to do one day. Love the content!
On the small shop or hobbyist side that is 100% accurate...unless you have a bottomless hobby wallet at least.
And for sure, the fact that you will make it yourself will save money, but in the end you will spend more than if you had bought a new one. But I still love this hobby because the process is more important than the result
@@craftzars Depends on the tool really. If a guy orders a 4 flute mill like what he just made from amazon for say 40 bucks, 90% chance it will last for one cut and break. This Old Tony has a good video on how that all shakes out called "how much a 3$ collet really costs" or something. The best part of making your own tools is guarantee of quality and you can always kick the crap out of the jerk that made the tool wrong, haha.
That’s why I keep this as a hobby and not a job. Make more sense to just buy these if it was a production shop
Not always more complex, just frequently more niche. True, sometimes we see things that are 60 machining steps for a single part, but other projects are 60 machining steps for the whole project, it's just a matter of 'do I buy something that is a 30% chance of exactly what I want, and a 50% of being close enough, or do I spend 20 hours making exactly what I want, and maybe make it have extra features if I don't goof up too bad.
Nice video! I like the "no bullshitt" approach toward this tool. I'd love to see it perform, compared to the cheap ali express endmill heads. Those are cheap as chips nowadays, reaching $50 and below.
Fantastic project, thanks for sharing.
Great work as usual. We shared this video on our homemade tools forum this week 😎
Nice work, looks like a keeper, cheers!
Great work once again!
Now I'm waiting for this video: dovetail cutter with inserts.
I'm still amazed you have gone so far without it, to be honest the dovetail mill you use holds up great!
New lathe sounds great!
Hope you're feeling better soon 👍
You never cease to amaze me.
Great work! Good thinking with the boring head.
Nice job Bruce!💪💪💪
Very nice project!
That turned out great!
Great metal chucker number 2 👍
Belo trabalho. Parabéns 👏👏
Nice work!
Mint work my guy
I‘d suggest making a little endstopnfor your lathe should be as easy as a little switch that turns some relay off.
I‘d probably also make a little slope to the center so that stuff can’t rub there.
I'm in the process of making one for my bridgeport. I was milling the 3/4 shank and had a bird nest of swarf building up so I did what I always do and grabbed it with my hand. HO LEE SHYT it was like grabbing a razor blade and pulling my hand away. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a scar a cross my finger print from now on.
Love giving the bottom some relief.
Was wondering if your er Collet chuck fits the new lath or will you make a new one? Excellent project, thanks for the video. Hope you feel better soon.
Good stuff
Love it.
Much more interesting is how to do end mill yourself with standard inserts.
I was surprised to see you were able to cut steel with these inserts. The CCGT’s you have there are for aluminium. Usually CCMT is used for steel …
I use aluminium inserts quite often is steel. The life of the inserts is reduced but you can still get a lot of work out of them
The positive rake and sharp edge is great for lower powered machines, where speeds and feeds are generally on the low side, and inserts like these leave an excellent finish. It's still carbide after all, so it's much harder than the steel. The trade-off is that the edge doesn't last as long as on an insert designed for steel. No use for production work on serious machines, but honestly an excellent choice for light work on hobby machines.
Excellent video. I am so surprised that it only took half a day. Thank you for sharing your work and knowledge!
I got a bit of suggestion for you, I think you could use a more precise soft jaw copper plate because I kinda see it in the videos that the part had a little bit of run out just by looking at it. I hope this channel grow bigger and better!
Nice build and some really nice shots there too! The inserts you are using on that thing are not really made for steel, they kinda work but you instantly gonna shave the corners off em. They work really well tho in all sorts of aluminium and copper and give extremely good surface finnish on those materials usually.
Also the faces where the inserts are seated against should be at the same angle as the inserts, kinda a hassle to setup tho and if it twerks it twerks.
Peace and keep it up!
I use these types of inserts all the time for steel. They do have a slightly reduced working life but it’s wrong to say that the edges break instantly. You get quite a lot of life out of them as long as you don’t crash the tool. And if you really want to set up the a tapered endmill you can but I never do and it works. Cheers
@@artisanmakes Nah it's not wrong because i had exacatly that happening multiple times. Glad they hold up for you cuz i had near 0 life out of em in anything but in non ferrous metals. Maybe they hold up on lower grade steel but they sure didn't like 42CrMo :/ No offense btw, you do you and the results speak for themselves! Stuff lookin good!
@@artisanmakes u will get a mutch mutch longer life, if u consider the right tool for the job. or switch to aluminium^^ often u can mill 1 qubic meter of material or more with these.
I think a lot of these comments come from folks with experience in commercial production machining, where these would indeed be the wrong inserts. But in a hobby shop, with the low speeds and feeds required by small machine tools, they're excellent and can last a long time. They don't like interrupted cuts, though.
@@cooperised Yeah, i have several years of experience in the industry. Those inserts are rated for non-ferrous metals and Vc 80-3000m/min fz 0,02-0,4 and ap of 0,1-4mm btw. (According to package and tested) They work excellent in those conditions tho, tried em on steel too but they got violated rather quickly. Just wanted to point that out because stuff costs money and i like my tooling last a bit.
Anyone else base their refernce of time on Artisan Makes projects? Like when he said "about 6 months ago" i was like oh that was 6 months ago? lol
But your projects are always super inspiring! I can't wait to get my lathe working so I can start working on similar projects.
I don't have a mill yet though
You've got your purchases the right way round anyway - the manual lathe is a much more versatile tool than the manual mill, which is a surprise to a lot of non-machinists.
Ofcourse depending on what you have as hobby @@cooperised 😁😁
I’d definitely harden those face mills if possible, it will greatly increase the longevity of those tools
We need to come together n get this man a Bridgeport or a heavy duty Clausing.
Комментарий в поддержку канала и ролика, а также труда мастера....
Hey you're obviously a very capable machinist but i just wanted to share this cool tip i learned from Curtis on Cutting Edge Engineering Australia. The copper you use with the 3 jaw chuck is U shaped pieces that are just slid over the jaws. He has a video where he shows how you can use a carbide endmill to mill down through the surface hardness of the front face of the jaws, which will then allow you to use normal tooling to tap a hole. You can then make some L shaped copper pieces that bolt in place. It's a lot less work in terms of setup and they dont fall in the floor. 😊
There is an other way to have them stay on as well. If you fold the copper pieces so they grip around the jaw with a little bit of spring pressure, they also stay on nicely. Not sure where I picked this up, but I would like to blame Tom Lipton 😅.
Or you could just make a set or two of soft jaws out of aluminum or mild steel and not ruin your hard jaws.
you should try making spring style collets for your mt3, in the style of a r8 spring collet, these small mills need minimal stick out to increase rigidity id imagine, they dont exist to my knowledge
Yes mt3 collets exist and it is what I use
Now you just need to make a 3rd cutter and you can use the other 2 edges of those ccgt inserts.
Honestly I actually get excited when this channel drops videos.quickly becoming one of my favorite machining channels
What's with the flaming chip(?) at 10:49 (t=649.39 to 649.47)? It was quite disconcerting!
Next project make another face mill to use the other two corners on the insert.
The only thing that I could say about your face mill, it’s not held with a arbor. That means you have to hold it with a collet or in a side lock.
Depending on the level of precision you need to maintain, the side lock will have some runout.
The collet might not be ridged enough. I see you’ve loaded it with soft metal inserts, so the stresses will be less, per your material.
Anyway, good on ya, solid machining skills.
It’s intentionally designed to work with the mills quick change tooling system which uses 20mm shank tools
I get that, just not a fan of holding a face mill in a collet. I’ve seen people scrap expensive stuff due to a 32 micro inch surface finish callout. Also from using the wrong insert, coated inserts for hard metals period. Anyway the only other thing I see is your spindle speed is too high, per the surface footage of the material, low carbon should be around 400 CSFM. Anyway it’s .78740 not 20 mm lol love ya bra
It’s a little high but that’s what this cutter runs happiest at. I found the same thing with the other one I made. Well happiest when I’m pushing it like this that is
Well at least you’re running coolant, I’ve seen a lot of people running high speed steel cutters dry, in some applications you can run carbide dry with a air blast.
Apologies the components I’ve been making for the last 30 +years goes down a runway or into a hot combat zone. The stakes are much higher, I would love to have your equipment in my home shop.
4:24 there is a reddish tone close to the business end of the jaws. Are those the soft jaws you made with the copper inserts?
Copper soft jaws made from copper pipe
@@artisanmakes thank you for your reply.
Great video as always, your lathe sounds like hell tho, why? And the work seems to wobble under load.
Still breaking in the gearbox. i didnt take the run out in the part but it wasnt necessary for the operation
Why you dont use ccmt for mill the steel? ccgt great for non ferro materials
My mill doesn’t really have the rigidity to push CCMT inserts through steel
👍👍👍💪
if i ever won powerball your getting a schaublin 13 and a hlv-h and a building to put em in.. pinky swear 😊
Hey man! How do you hold tools in the mill? I supose er collets but what tipe? Your mil has a mt3 morse taper right? I'm looking to buy one of these mills but I just don't realy know how to hold tooling! hope you have time to respond and have a nice day!
And I forgot. How do you hold the new face mill
I use almost exclusively morse taper collets
@@artisanmakes Ok. but for endmills I have seen you use a er collet chuck. Is that correct? 7:28 . Sorry for bothering you so much I'm just not familiar with milling yet 😅 thank for your time and have a nice day!
Oh and your what size of bolt is in you spindle m12?
I use er20 collet holders with a 20mm shank. They get held in my 20mm MT3 collets. It’s part of my quick change tooling system. I have an old video about it
Your carbide insert moves in its holder at 4:45. A loose insert is soon a broken insert with a bad part bonus. Unfortunately, just tightening the screw will not fix it because the cutting forces will twist the insert back loose. Either never cut in that direction with that holder or modify the holder for a tighter hold. The screw should push the insert into a side wall (while still keeping the insert sitting flat). There's the 'proper' fix of welding/brazing (caution warping) plus remachining. Then there's the dark arts of fixing fits with peening (caution hack). Joe Pie vid for inspiration czcams.com/video/S9Ozjc90GmQ/video.html but note that all those 'solutions' except straight knurl will not hold against side loads.
why you use aluminium inserts to steel?
High positive rake
RPM=constant surface footage per minute X 3.82 divided by cutter diameter.
Love your videos and ideas. I'm just getting started in this hobby. Do you have plans that you can sell?
Enjoying the new lathe, ey? 😊
Is it me or does your lathe have a wobble in the chuck? I know it can look weird in a camera.....
Yeah it does a little bit.
There is something I never understood about machining. Why couldn't you use your 20 mm cutter? If you take very shallow passes (which you did with the fly cutter)?
I understand why a machine that isn't rigid or powerful could not take big passes but if you're patient, what issue remains?
You use these types mostly of cutters because they have interchangeable inserts which are much cheaper to replace than a normal cutter
@@artisanmakes No no, you said you couldn't use your 20 mm cutter *to machine this face mill* because your milling machine isn't rigid enough. And I never understood why (if you accept to take shallow passes)
Oh that part, sorry it’s been a while since I made it and couldn’t remember off the top of my head. Running the carbide like I did here meant I could run it fast and take off small amounts of material with light pressure without worrying about burning up the cutter. If I’d used the endmill i would have to run it slower to not burn it up(hss burns up easily) . It also would require more tool pressure due to the extra cutting faces (4 flute endmill) and that increases tool pressure needed to cut.
@@artisanmakes And taking shallower passes would reduce tool pressure?
So it's "just" a trade-off with the time it takes to machine the part?
All comes down to the individual cutter. My 20mm that I have isn’t a great quality one so it doesn’t do light cuts very well. You need to really push it into the work for it to take a cut, rather than rub up against the material. If it was a brand new endmill with a razor sharp edge I could have probably gotten away with using it.
Early gang
Do anybody know other creators from australia who makes contens like Artisan Makes, i know CEE is there any others?
Clickspring comes to mind
Pask Makes
@@davidgibson5756 I will definitely check it out.
@@Kineth1 I know this chanel, have it in my subscription.
Mark presling
Why would you design a face mill head to accept turning inserts when it’s just the same amount of work to design it with milling inserts? Also you’ll find it a lot more rigid if the sides of your pockets are at the same angles is the inserts, and finally try using the same inserts but steel versions, your edges will last longer
I have 4 packs of these inserts and they’re pretty rubbish as lathe inserts. Might as well use these here. And my mill doesn’t have the rigidity to use steel inserts and if you’ve ever used aluminium inserts in steel you know that they don’t instantly break.
In general they’re pretty useful for low HP. Machines if you don’t mind sacrificing some edge life
Flycutters are known for hogging out massive amounts of material in a hurry. The only reason you'd need something like a facemill is to impress your friends 😂
Who told you that!🙂
Okay then, why did my flycutter not survive 3mm dept of cut when my face mill happily chew thru 4 mm dept of cut ?
Isn't it then called a shoulder mill? You didn't make the first face mill for nothing it's the proper tool for facing, the shoulder mill should just be used if you have to mill to a shoulder. Many people use shoulder mills for face milling but it's actually the wrong tool and it gets frowned upon by mill operators because it doesn't work as well as a dedicated face mill.
Sorry but I'm going to disagree with you. Shoulder mills work great as face mills and only needing 1 tool for both is great
@@LoneWolfPrecisionLLC But why are there face mills then?
@@Universal_Craftsman basically if you have a tough material that chews inserts. Shoulder mill inserts are usually only two sided. Facemills are 4-12, in a job shop all you need in a shoulder mill. In production having more sides is nice when your dping more parts
@@LoneWolfPrecisionLLC That makes sense. This might be the reason the mill operator doesn't want people to use the shoulder mill's for facing, because it's a waste of inserts. I wanted to be the smart a** here, and now I lost the case, what a shame...
Facemill inserts typically have a much wider corner angle as well, which makes them inherently stronger. The shallower approach angle also means the chip thickness is less for the same feed, meaning you can feed them faster. Consequently face mills are excellent tools for hogging of lots of material in a hurry. Shoulder mills typically requires less torque and rigidity for the same width and depth of cut though, because of the narrower chip. So if you are pushing the limits of your machine it can sometimes be the better facing tool. Well, that's the theory anyways, but there's a lot of other factors at play as well, so your milage may vary.
i hate saying it, but at 4:00, everything afterwards is a waste of time....
you just lost the concentricity to the shank you turned. can see the run-out on the final test cuts with the taper and OD.
popping it on the rotary and indicating... still not to the shank, but to the now eccentric diameter you just turned...
the best bet would have been do it on centres, then you just have to give it a final pass to clean it up and not worry about soft jaws, runout, blah blah.
next time, huh?
lol.
Well obviously that wasn't lost on me. But I took a punt on the run out not being an issue in the places that it popped up and given how well the tool works it obviously it doesn't matter a huge amount. There is probably a but more wear on one of the cutting edges but that's all if amounts to, and ive used this tool in enough parts that the effect isn't hugely noticeable. Not my first choice I but I cant afford any of the 4 jaw or collet chucks for this lathe yet.
@@artisanmakes i know, i know. its only a face cutter, a tiny discrepancy aint a big deal. want the best finish you got the flycutter or pull 3/4 of the teeth.
wait... it didnt come with a 4jaw, faceplate, two steadyrests and a pile of gears? i think mine had the mt4-3 sleeve. cant recall ever buying it separately!
im sure you have an MT3 er32 ;)
Always nice to give the bottom some relief..always..😂