Rare Exceptions to Dave Ramsey’s “No-Debt” Policy
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- čas přidán 3. 03. 2024
- Today we’ll hear about:
• A new business owner who owes $200,000 to the IRS
• A group of businesses that provide a scholarship fund for the trades
• The best way to protect your assets when transferring ownership of a company
• Why businesses should or shouldn’t provide financing on their products
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"Success is one of the leading causes of failure. "
And faikure is one if the leading causes of success
@@joshuamclean4588brilliant!
Whoever titled this works in SEO and is a genius
I had employees and had bad information. The end of the year employees alerted the IRS. It was a hard hurtle. Finally a CPA had the ability to negotiate with IRS. I had consequences but one payment and CPA negotiated accurately. I was blessed to find an amazingly CPA. Hard lesson to learn. Dave Ramsey is RIGHT!
Sounds like you need not only a CPA, but an English tutor. 🤣
@@prestonpetterson4990 ?
He was an AMAZING CPA! Amazingly is like " the surgery went amazingly well"
I just financed an $80,000 dodge and i have terrible credit. I thought the interest rate was based on the likelihood a lady will love my car (29.99%)
Bro what
@@flunkreaction that's how it works, right?
404 not found
Interest rate - the rate with which women will find you interesting. That's why it's higher on sports cars, but never exceeds 30%
Did she like your car?
People in your life can tell you what to do only if you tell them what you're doing. It sounds like this guy didn't tell his outside tax accountant anything until prompted at year-end. Dave may be right about needing a more up-scale accountant but I wouldn't blame the person he's worked with, or more accurately, worked without.
Re the electrical contractor, I wonder how profitable he is. $1M to $5M to $10M and doesn’t understand his tax obligations? If that’s indicative of his business acumen he won’t survive the growth
Not very. Based on the call, t’s safe to assume the business is a entity and they haven’t made any estimated payments. If they owe 200k on taxes that probably means under 800k profit.
@@kevinstock5886really??? 🤕 Ouch
Many trades people do well as a journeyman & get their master licence, contractor licence, go into buisness & are great trades people & horrible buisness people, from putting of invoicing to ignoring taxes. Very common
The gentleman with the fast-growing electrical contracting business? He is likely growing like that because he's not pricing in enough to cover the cost of taxes, and the CFO and financial systems needed to support that business. Even if he DIDN'T under-price his jobs, he almost CERTAINLY over-spent what he made because he priced at market levels - and his competitors DO include the cost of doing the accounting and paying the taxes.
Life is gonna get a LOT harder for him as he starts having to pay for the record-keeping and set aside the taxes - his cashflow is going to see a MAJOR crimp once he has to start paying for these essentials that he should have had all along.
He said that he utilized his cash to become debt free in December. He never said how much cash that was but I can tell you that the amount of tools/truck/equipment/etc that it takes to run a 5m electrical company is close to $1m of assets.
It’s pretty simple… had he financed the trucks and equipment rather than paying cash- he would have the same amount of tax deductions but still have the cash on hand.
Easily pay the tax bill with the cash on hand.
There is such thing as good debt. The debt just has to generate a positive cash flow.
@@mrjeffgray you are absolutely right. Paying off debt isn’t deductible. It helps the balance sheet but hurts you tax wise. He probably ended up taking all that debt payoff money as an owner draw. As far as the IRS goes, they see that as you making that money personally, even though you didn’t see a dime of it.
He needs a tax professional who plays the tax game not just one who records what happened and then hits the calculation button on their tax software and tells you what you owe.
Correct. He thinks taxes can come out of profit or whatever bank account happens to have enough cash in it when the check needs to clear.
@@jameshetu6885the idea that companies should never have debt is just wrong. You get into that kind of revenue, companies leverage their debt to make the most profit. You make your terms for AP as broad as possible and get AR in as fast as possible.
I disagree on it being the accountants fault. A lot of business owners do not prioritize tax planning period. I am dealing with a client now that has not responed to me. So it's not necessarily the accountants fault.
As an accountant, the first call, and them subtly blaming the EXTERNAL accountant for them as a director, not managing their own business responsibly, is so familiar. You pay for what you get. Is the accountant a mind reader? Agree with Dave, they need an fd or fc. But too many people want to bury their head in the sand and hope someone will sort it on their behalf for next to no money.
He went "debt free", but has no money left...... So 1) you don't have money for Cap Ex 2) You don't pay taxes every quarter. Great.... 3) I'm 100% positive the CPA told you how to avoid this, but you didn't listen. You hire a payroll company.....
Even on u-tube videos tell you to have a tax reserve account for your business.
My cpa set up my quarterly tax estimates when my business started.
My bussiness is only an LLC and I hired a good CPA up front to keep me straight and legal.
I love this. The question about the ethics about selling a product that requires financing for most customers was a tough one to think through. I appreciate you sharing your wisdom. He will grow more slowly and may struggle with his stance, but in the end it will be more stable.
I absolutely refuse to do any business with Wells Fargo Chase or Bank of America. The heck with that credit union are where it’s at baby.
Those banks are as corrupt as the federal government.. because they ARE the government.
Sometimes, businesses grow so fast you don't realize that you have new problems until it's too late. Typical growing pains and it's okay.
This is not ok, the accountant involved is not a professional, and this guy doesn't have a clue. This is a disaster. The electrician one had my jaw on the floor.
That first caller needs a new accountant.
Fair enough not knowing business stuff when you open a business, but I would expect taxes would be something you know you need to do something about.
Nobody told him......
You don’t know what you don’t know.
They do. What they don’t know is how much. Payroll is 15.3% right off the top. A typical employee I don’t think realizes the amount that comes out on a regular paycheck is only half. The employer pays the other half and when you’re in business, that’s you.
As a business owner and someone who owns an accounting company if you don’t own a business, you have zero idea how many taxes you have to pay until you have the first episode of what the Caller is going thru.
You need to set aside almost 30% of every dollar just to pay the IRS and it sucks!
@@crossfitruston3632 I have no doubt it's annoyingly complicated. I took the caller to be saying that he had zero idea that he had to pay any taxes, which is ridiculous. I would have known that was a thing (even before watching anything Dave Ramsey or other financial people and with no business or financial formal education or experience), probably started looking into it, and likely would flounder for a bit knowing I'm likely accruing penalties and once I made enough hire somebody like you.
There have been other callers who had the taxes get away from them. The person knew they had to pay, but have been too swept up in running their business and it falls through the cracks. This is much more reasonable and I can definitely see how this could happen. Especially if you have strong quick success.
Whoo! That's a good problem. Yet, mistakes made, Congratulations! Now take a moment to get systems in place!! 💜💜
The only time you barrow is to pay for a "House" , "Car", or "tools" to make more money. I would not change it no matter how big my business got. Borrowing money to pay taxes is a red flag the size of an NFL stadium.
To have taxe debts and no money to pay them. That is the red flag. Borrowing money to avoid a meltdown because of this failure is just the necessary consequence.
Sure, but he was too dumb to know he was going to pay taxes, so now that's the only option. And I really question your judgement if you think it's wise to borrow money for a car.
As a lawn care company owner 0 percent financing on a mower upgrade has helped a ton!!!
Yeh helping the trade kids! 20 years ago I went to work for 10$ hr and I couldn’t barrow 5k for tools but my friends who went to college could get 50k dept. now I’m self employed 15years dept free !
Sounds like he needs a new competent CPA.
There's a typo in the thumbnail
Good one
Be nice while you fire the accountant. You never know what the future holds
A lot of the soullessness of banks is to avoid discrimination. People used to refuse to lend based on bias. Now they reduce people to numbers. It's soulless, but the alternative was probably worse.
I think you guys got hit with auto "correct". Exceptions --> Expectations
You beat me to it! Luckily thumbnails can be changed...
No. I'm sure some of the business owners meant to offer a monkey-back guarantee too lol
What was his profit? You can sell $10m of work & only net $100k. Likewise, you can sell $400k & net $200k.
9:59 Just returned from test driving Mazda Millennia 2000 after fixing P0300
Dave said QB won run a company this size. Not correct. We run a $500MM trades company with QB desktop contractors version.
He markets a competitor that’s why read the room
regarding "no financing" - I think there are plenty of ways to express your morality around debt beyond just "don't offer it"
- Don't offer debt
- Only offer 0% (or just offer lower rates overall)
- Partner with more ethical financiers (e.g. a credit union and not a predatory lender)
- Offer financing but don't tie it to commissions for your employees (easy choice)
- Pay it forward on the giving side (support financial education programs in schools, community, church etc)
Ultimately you can't absolve yourself of it entirely because there's nothing that'll stop a customer from going outside for financing anyway. But there are more choices beyond a simple 'yes' or 'no'
So we are just giving our money away entirely now?
You know interest rates exist for a reason lmao
read the comment again. these are all OPTIONS for those like the caller who aren't comfortable exploiting their customers through usury. Seems to not include you.
26:00 - Dave, we pay for every dollar using our credit card. We also use it to track our credit card purchases. As a household we do not have debt issues or issues with responsible use of our CCs. Your ED product helps us with monthly budget tracking and living within cashflow. Please do not get motivated to cut off ED participants that use/pay with CCs. Your tool is a good one. We are willing to pay for it. We would not be able to use it if it did not support CCs.
I don’t think card providers allow vendors to disallow paying with CC. Ramsey solutions i believe issues the honor system, but don’t have a way to check
If you never get late fees and use it like a debit card, why not try to go without CC?
If you have never tried it, it’s wild the different decisions you make.
@@Werdna12345 I didn't ask for your virtues. Our financials are don't just fine because we stick to a budget using ED as a tool. We use our frontal cortexes to delay gratification, spend less than we make, and think though our choices. Are CCs are tools. A DC would be no different.
5% rewards is one of the reasons. Extended warranties on certain items is another. The ability to categorize spending using multiple cards is another, although less relevant when using ED.
I can see a scenario where that could be helpful for certain people. A friend of mine owns a lawnmowing business. At one point, he had more business than he could accommodate with the mowers that he had. He knew that financing a new mower that could work twice as fast, or cover twice as much ground at the same time,would increase his business significantly, and therefore his income, and that it would pay for itself very quickly. So he financed it. He obviously has more risk tolerance than Dave Ramsey, or I do. Fortunately, it worked out for him.
Are they even making money? That would have been my 1st question because revenue isn't net profit. For all we know, he's losing money... I know a lot of contractors who messed up bidding jobs who lost money. Gross is not after expenses... seems like that would have been the first question and if the guy doesn't know how to set aside money for taxes, how would he even know his profit per job? Are you sure if he is waiting for the bookke[er to ask for QB he's even bidding jobs properly?
How can someone smart enough to build a 10m business be dumb enough to not know you need to pay tax
Why isn't he paying quarterly??? Quickbooks will even tell you that you need to pay quarterly.
New Accountant Needed for this guy! Great Show
200k tax is nothing in a 10mio he be a met to pay it in 2 weeks … I don’t get the issue just pay it and put more aside for next tax date
Have u ran a $10M company? Especially a trades company?
First they only did 5m the yr in reference. In 2024 they are predicting 10M.
For trades companies... average makes 5-10% Net. Best in business are 10-20%. Let's assume they did 5M, at 15% NP... they Netted 750k on paper. To pay 200k in taxes that would take 3 months of NP to pay this bill.
@@danyoung9671I run a trade company shy of 1mio one man show 30% nett profit and I left some in corp and took a decent wage and still pay 50k tax welcome to Canada if I took all wages I’d be paying 120k taxes so I know why I said 200k taxes is laughable at 5mio revenue
Yea and at this point, you should be taking out funding to the tune of 30k regularly, just to help down the line if you need to make a big funding application in a hard time...hard times for a 10 mil business a real hard time...this is a lesson learned but the finance will actually benefit you with creditors.
Note: we are discussing business and finance and credit is just part of the western class system in business. Ofc personally, never get credit if you can. As a business that is doing well, the relationship built with the financer is invaluable, esoecially in expansion opportunities.
That’s the first thing you do
I use debt in rare occurrences.
1. For large purchases I can't afford such as a house
2. For low interest rates where excess invested money creates higher return
3. When I intend to pay off the credit by the end of the month
4. When there is a zero interest and I can pay the entire amount off in the introductory period
Number 2 essentially doesn't exist once you factor in risk. If it did, anyone reasonably smart would have an easy path to being a billionaire. Let's take a silly example to illustrate the concept. You wouldn't actually do this, but it's just to make the concept obvious.
Suppose a credit card charges 18% per year. A blackjack table pays 100% in minutes. The blackjack table has a much higher return. Would you take a cash advance on your credit card to put the money on the blackjack table? Of course not.
Borrowing at 6.5% to hopefully make 9-10% in the stock market is a less extreme example of the exact same thing. The reason the bank is willing to lend to you at 6.5% instead of them investing that money in the market is they realize the market might go down.
Number 2 pretty much only happens if you're better at figuring risk and return than the $250,000/year pros at the bank who do those calculations for a living.
By not taking on debt, or paying it off, that's a 100% guarantee you won't have to pay the interest. What's a fair interest rate / return when there's 100% certainty? The treasury market gives us the answer - about 4%-5%. If your loan / debt costs you more than 4.5%, you're better off paying it off than investing the money. Because getting rid of the debt will get rid of the interest payments with absolute certainty. Stocks will go *hopefully*. Certainly is worth a lot more than hopefully.
I will help! Fire her and give me a call. A $10 million business and no quarterly tax assessments? Eeek!
How high does Quickbooks handle?
The first guy is just a bit silly. What business owner doesn't know you have to pay taxes I'm sorry we all know we have to pay taxes
He needs to fire his book keeper and his tax person. I'm but a high school graduate & I know to set tax payments aside and send them quarterly!!
His accountant is not doing his/her job.
Your “no debt” policy is just that, a policy that isn’t actually necessary to build wealth
Dave has never said his method is the only way, the most efficient, or the most effective. He said it's a method that has the highest rate of success for the average person who cannot manage their debt. It's a one-size-fits all solution with decades of proven success. If that first caller was properly managing his finances he could have paid the taxes in cash and remained debt free while killing it. It takes a special kind of person (good not bad) to manage a business that's millions of dollars in debt and make it work. He approved of what Graham Stephan was doing but also outlined a way Graham could be running his business debt free while still making the same amount of money without any of the risk of debt.
when did he say it was necessary?
You seem to hate all big banks. Is there a bank you would recommend?
No
bro just started his buisness and did 5 MILLION..... and then Doubled it the next year.... WTF is happening here?
He breaking bad 😂
This homey was supposed to be paying quarterly/provisional taxes. 😂😂
So if he spent all his $ on covering his business debt and have 0 left then his taxable amount nothing. Am I wrong?
No
Um - file an extension?
Surely with. The prospect of 9.8 million in contracts you could manage to pay the tax bill within 6 months?
Good grief!
An extension doesn't stop the penalties or interest for underpayments.
An extension is an extension to file, not an extension to pay.
@@USMC6976 Yes, please do not use an extension to pay, the extension is to file. You need to send in a payment with that extension or you are going to be racking up penalties and interest in a serious way, and on $200,000 that is going to double quickly!
Two biggest tropes on the Ramsey show : people hopelessly in debt (just sad), and people dumber than a box of rocks making millions of dollars a year.
9:59
35:59
First caller: this is the problem I have with Dave. This guy who called in and did fantastic! But Dave seems upset (short with the caller) that the caller didn’t have his taxes together . He didn’t know. Dave is asking this guy questions that he JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT. Why didn’t your account do something? He didn’t know to ask! Why didn’t you set money aside? He didn’t know to get with his accountant to figure it out! Dave either calls his actions or plainly calls the caller “stupid”. Dave, here’s an arch top guitar, play giant steps at a quarter note = 300. Not being able to do it might make you ignorant, or uneducated, but not stupid! Dave, you’re better than this……..right?
No. Dave is right. Doesn’t matter if you are 100k or 100m. You know you have to be on top of your taxes. ‘I didn’t know’ isn’t a good enough excuse for the IRS.
@@mbr05c of course Dave is right about staying on top of your taxes, but he very wrongly assumes the caller did this due to willful apathy, not unintentional ignorance. The caller led a business to a 5 million dollar year, no reason to call him stupid!
If this guy/owner did not realize he was bringing in big bucks, something is wrong. I think he did know. He should have known to get some financial advice before now. And, he did say they spent the money. This is a bit fishy……..
You grow up in America and everyone knows taxes are due at tax season. Any business owner knows taxes are due every quarter of every year!
Telling someone they're accountable for something that they are accountable for isn't being mean or getting on their case. Btw he said he knew he had to pay the taxes he just ignored the numbers on how much because he was excited to spend his gross sales.
Would that person be interested in giving a scholarship to a young missionary in South America for a Bible College? She has seen over 1,000 people trusted Christ as Savior?
Such a great show compared to the other shows. It’s painful listening to those bozos . At least these bozos are in business
Dave will not be happy with this title.
Idk, i dont like debt, but theres some opportunities that you cant pass up if you're smart and beat them.
Any 0% shit from consumer credit, if you're certain you have the cash flow to pay it off. Mainly for almost needed shit. Like a bed, or small furnishing.
Hell, a decent TV from the right place. Dont get the 8k deal for 7k, get a decent 4k for 1k with the right accessories and move on.
Cars are the same too. I have a 16 Jetta, 14k at 3%. In the last 4 years, I've made money vs. inflaton.
I get where Ramsey comes from, as like 80% of people have no clue to manage debt. But if you know your boundaries and how to make it work for you, debt is a manageable aspect of life.
Fuck, almost every comany, even those on the 500 S&P have some type of debt load.
I would never do the 0% financing. If I have to save up and pay cash, it gives me more time to determine if it’s worth buying in the first place. If I’m close to the purchase price and I decide not to buy it, I can then reinvest the money
I can spend $800+ on a bed or $30 on a cot. Both do what I need; a bed is just more comfortable for most people. I’ll absolutely never buy a bed on impulse. A couch isn’t actually a necessity, so I will never buy one on impulse. A television is not a necessity either. I will never buy a television at all. I won’t even take in one as a gift. It adds zero value to my life and has the potential to siphon value from my life
For a car, I’ll say the same thing; I’ll save up and pay cash. Why would I borrow money for a $30k car to get me from point A to point B when I can buy a $5k car that does the exact same thing?
The idea behind a zero debt mindset goes beyond debt management. I am fully capable of managing debt. But it’s an unnecessary risk and induces more stress than necessary. Dave doesn’t talk about his plan as the masterclass on building a monetary empire. His plan is about financial peace. Lower costs on their own brings more peace than higher income on its own. When I’m in a position to be able to pay all of my necessities on interest from a high yield savings account alone, all financial pressures are gone. It’s a huge weight off my shoulders. At that point, having $1k per month in minimum necessary expenses, having $10 million doesn’t make any difference in my life from having $5 million. I’d be completely out of the rat race and I don’t care if others would have more money than me. I don’t spend money to impress others
None of the stuff you mentioned are necessities. Your 2016 Jetta at 14K and 3% interest is continuing to go down in value. Did you buy it new in 2016 and have been paying 3% interest on it all that time or did you buy it used and finance a used vehicle? Either way, you are not making money on that vehicle it is depreciating and if you were to have your car totaled you are not very likely to have insurance pay off the entire loan. You may well be liable for a car you can't drive. Two years ago, I needed a new bed, so I got myself a hammock because that is what I could afford. I just replaced that with a 6-foot memory foam bean bag that I paid cash for too. I am currently working on getting back to work after 4 years of disability, so a mattress wasn't something I could invest in. Going into debt for a bed that is not going up in value but down regardless of the interest rate isn't worth it. There are no small furnishings that you need so badly that you need to go into debt for them. You are not managing your debt if you can't afford to buy small furnishings. I bought a huge leather couch that originally sold for 10K and I paid $65. Did you know that you can clean up, strip the dye off, and re-dye a leather anything? I like to go to thrift stores in affluent areas and buy used furniture, and a lot of it doesn't need re-upholstered, although, I am capable of doing upholstery, so I will go for the cheaper one that needs new upholstery on it. I don't even own a TV. I built my own PC 10 years ago, and I simply upgrade parts as I need them. Why would you buy any TV on time? I wouldn't spend $1000.00 on a TV ever. They look tacky on your walls, and you can get a projector and a white sheet for so much less to watch movies on.
If you were managing your money and your debt as well as you say you are, you would be able to buy anything you want without needing to buy it on time. Sure you might have to drive a beater for a while with no A/C in Atlanta GA, but it will be so worth it when I get my newer vehicle saved up for and can pay cash for it.
@RiverWoods111 I can see this only ending in disagreeing. It's the delusion that Ramsey sends out saying any kind of debt is bad. Which, to a large part of the population is 100% true. But those that have discipline and can manage completely staying away from debt is counterproductive. Unless you want to buy a house cash?
There was maybe 1 month in the entire time of owning my car I was upside down on the value with the loan, and I had the cash to back that up.
I've had my fair share of beaters and hammy down beds and tvs. I've lived that life.
I drive the Jetta at a point in my life where everyone I know has $50k+ daily cars like its normal. I've run with no ac for forever, I've done countless repairs myself and still do.
The price of this car gives me one thing. Piece of mind, especially with a 250 mile commute.
Some of the previous vehicles I've owned would have cost more to own per month in mx than what I paid per month for the loan.
Saving is a huge deal, and making sure you have a backup is the foundation you need before leveraging some debt.
But not taking advantage of 0% deals and the really low interest when it was available is dumb not to, IF you can afford it.
Saving every dime to the grave is a fairly boring life. It's about balance.
29:00 Fine doing financing, but charging interest is sin. Usury is in fact a sin, and having people buy via you making more money from interest would be wrong.
So you’re not actually fine with financing. Interest is a necessary part of that; to loan someone money without charging interest is to lose money. That is why you will never get an interest-free loan except from someone who knows you personally and is willing to eat that loss to help you out.
@@Thanatos2996 Yup exactly. That's pretty much the only time I'm okay with financing. Loaning should only be done between people you have a relationship with. Our country would be in a much better spot if this was followed.
I would also add, you're only losing money because of inflation... Which is another issue entirely that should be gone.
I’m a customer of the trades and my only source of income is Social Security. Today’s trades people demand to get rich on every job they do. Prices are outrageous. The greed is unbridled. It’s absolutely horrible. If you’re uncertain about the out of control greed, just listen to the guys who call into Dave for advice. Many trades people have lost their souls,. They no longer worship Almighty God and only worship the Almighty Dollar. The character of our nation has gone down the drain. It is very sad.
Do you have any idea how much a one-bedroom costs in most of the US? Have you priced a new car lately, hell have you priced a used car? Have you looked at the prices of both gas and diesel? The cost of parts that tradespeople use? Do you understand that a trade business that is making 10 million a year is not netting 10 million a year? Their profit is between 5% to maybe 15% if they are really good at business. They aren't trying to get rich off of every job they are trying to make a profit and feed their family. You sir sound out of touch with reality how businesses work, and the cost of doing business. You seem to be the one who is greedy and wants people to work for nothing because you didn't plan for retirement. That doesn't seem like a they problem but a you problem. I get this all the time in my business where people basically want me to work for nothing while they make money off my back and my labor. This is why I am reorganizing my business to a point where I don't have to deal with cheap a*sses who have sold their soul to the devil and demand slavery.
Dave still promoting the use of such system, means his time in helping others has come to an end.
Counterfeiting currency is a serious threat to the integrity of any nation's economy. When presidents or leaders engage in such deceitful practices to siphon wealth from their citizens, it erodes trust in the government and destabilizes the financial system. Not only does it devalue the currency, but it also undermines the livelihoods of hardworking individuals who rely on the stability of their money. We must remain vigilant against such actions and hold our leaders accountable to uphold the integrity of our monetary system.
I think this guy thinks Accountants are a waste of money. Also this is a classic example of working in the business not on the business. Pulling $10M and need to borrow $200K? Weird.
Many many people who are great with whatever trade they are doing and absolutely incapable of otherwise intelligent thought. 💭. It’s far more common than you’d imagine
10mm is probably top line. Bottom line might only be 500k or so
I taught financial math at a high school, and a large part of my students were from the trade school. They'd constantly complain about having to be there, and "we don't need to know all this stuff."
While you don't necessarily need to be an expert, you do at least need to be knowledgeable about the financial side of things. Yeah, you can hire a "guy to do your money," but ultimately, it's on you to make good business choices.
Dave seems to have no understanding of fair lending laws. If someone requests lending, the underwriting process must be equal
Dave understands it pretty well, he went like 8 million in debt at 21 lol, loans are given out all the time to people who probably shouldn’t get loans.