HUGE NEW BALANCE DATASLATE FOR WARHAMMER! WHO ARE THE BIG WINNERS?
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- A massive new update to the competitive Warhammer 40k meta with a dataslate, MFM and more! What does the Art of War team think of the changes? Who are the big winners and losers in this update?
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Just missed the end of the livestream. Comments for the algorithm god
Likes for the Like throne.
Missed that Neurotyrant now gives Zoanthropes +1 to hit (+1 to wound if the enemy is battleshocked), that is important.
Also, can now shoot into combat (because Monster keyword).
@@vaettra1589 oh is that true? does he give the zoans monster keyword?
@@leSmokySmoke the unit gets it and monster unit is mentioned in the big guns never tire rule
@@facemite thats cool, though I dont think they survive getting touched in melee by any decent melee unit
For crusher stampede they missed that the +2 OC is only for starting strength monsters. if they're missing a wound they lose that bonus.
Right, so worthless against anything contested...so everything...
Yeah it looks kind of lame. I guess the train of thought is the monsters get a bonus either way, more OC or slightly more damage output.
@@vaettra1589 yeah it’s definitely because of rhe awkwardness of crusher giving no benefit to models until theyre hurt currentl
1:43:50 - I completely agree with Richard! 1 Redeemer is still good enough, even at +20. The ones who got punished are the players running 2-3 of them in some absurd skew lists.
How do you think the new "no spam" Strat rules will work with Uriel Ventris and his "Unorthodox Strategist" ability? Can he still use strats that have already been used once?
Wild to me that DG, no gt wins, got net nerfs. Meanwhile demons get basically an index rewrite buff lol
There was a lot of fear for gsc going forward since all the games vs sisters were lost so decisively. Sister playing with 2300-2400 and gsc playing with 1900 paints a very different perspective of those games. I believe the four-armed friends have tricks still to reveal.
Sisters don’t seem to have done great in the recent games I saw them in, so seems quite a nerf with points increases
Thx a lot!
Sorry to point out that the volume is quite low...
Engagement for the Engagement God. Comments for the Algorithm Throne!
Worth noting that with the core rules changes, Plagueburst Crawlers, Lord of Virulence, and Mortarion all got a lot worse. Indirect fire only hitting on 4+ unless you have LoS removes their combo and forces you to be aggressive with them to get the same effect. The DG reddit is already decrying them as dead units, especially Mortarion, since they didn't get any points reductions to compensate the nerf.
Morty can actually move on a table with terrain on it now. That's a big buff.
Praise the Omnissiah! (My poor Kastelan Robots tho...)
Kastelan Robot has become better for now, at least those blaster is more threatening to infantry🙈
Yeah for sure, just not as goated as the rest of the codex atm I guess, definitely better than before for sure though
I can't say im surprised about strats we saw these in the gsc codex which interestingly with them not being in the sister book it feels like gsc was written after
The lack of a battleshock test for Knights makes it so they don’t give Drukhari a Pain Token if they fail since they didn’t fail a battleshock test
Custodes seem like they could actually be pretty strong with the couple of points buffs and their army rule working on dev wounds now
Impulsor holds seven now! Helbrect a lieutenant and 5 sword brethren will be everywhere now 😊
Inner circle task force: agressive push lets you make all non controlled objective marker into a vowed obcetive marker, not just one.
Deathwing knights swords are now damage 2.
Inner circle companions also reveived an extra attack to their sweep profile on top of the ap increase.
I was building and playing my inner circle list holding out and it has PAID OFF. Super pumped about these changes
@@cullenasaro2229 yeah they seem better. Too bad they didnt get 4+ invu because then you could field them alone or with a judiciar. Now you are stuck with azrael or a librarian so they dont keel over.
@@mtrunkello I meant the inner circle detachment, but yea I agree. I think the judiciar against certain armies is better than an invuln ESPECIALLY with the melee upgrades. You can’t die if there’s no one there to kill you.
@@cullenasaro2229 true but i always make lists that im expecting to use against any army. And ap -3 is relatively common.
Glad to see that GW isn't afraid to make sweeping points changes paired with individual strength buffs. Hopefully the days of a faction being DOA for a whole edition are gone.
It sounds beautiful! So crisp, so clear, no room echoes.
Congratulations on the production upgrade!
How does the vect aura work with 3” deepstrike strategems? Is it targeted while they’re in reserve or while they’re entering or both?
How well do Custodes Play without ForgeWorld Units?
why did they not change wraithlords to hitting in ranged on a 3, keep the invulnerable save out of the mix but have them hit well. there is a lot of war experience in those stones.
What do you think about farsight plus flamers for the 1cp 3in deepstrike.
Love your content, but would also love if you guys could raise your audio levels. Sometimes it's very hard to hear without having to turn the volume up very loud.
Siegs with the Puretide Engram Bass Boost 😎
53:40 get John to complain about deathwatch so they are a relevant army again
yeah on your commentary you totally missed that before the vowed objective targeted only one obj, now if you control only your base obj you can target even 5 obj to have the +1 to wounds. That's so huge
Thanks Nick and Seigs
Great stuff. Lots of changes.
I think that CK rule, about the 1d6 battle shock, is so you can't just do an insane bravery when you do a move over tall terrain and ignore the BS.
You can't insane bravery outside of your command phase anyway.
New Lord of Deceit (LOD) aura has raised some questions regarding are Stratagems played in the aura or when a unit is in reserve
Example
DENIZENS OF THE WARP DAEMONIC INCURSION - STRATEGIC PLOY STRATAGEM WHEN: Your Movement phase. TARGET: One Legiones Daemonica unit from your army that is arriving using the Deep Strike ability this phase. EFFECT: Your unit can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 3" horizontally away from all enemy models. RESTRICTIONS: A unit targeted by this Stratagem is not eligible to declare a charge in the same turn.
Unlike a Stratagem such Rapid Ingress that specifically says
TARGET: One unit from your army that is in Reserves.
A number of Stratagems use the wording
TARGET ...unit from your army that is arriving using the Deep Strike ability this phase.
So does the LOD increase the CP of this stratagem if the unit is set up within 12" of the LOD?
Views?
I had a nice 1000pt sisters list. After the update it was 1085 😭
Not too bad then. They got massively better rules now. My list went from 2000 to 2345 😅
RTT tomorrow - Needed this - I knew AOW was the place to go
Great content as always guys!
Losing the ability to re-deploy after knowing who is going 1st is a big hit for Vanguard Invaders. Will the extra strength be enough of a side grade? We will see. I’ll just take the Endless Multitude detachment. 🤷🏼♂️
Endless swarm got nerfed hard with their most pivotal strat becoming once per game.
@@facemite yeah I found that out after I wrote that. Hmm. It’s looking like Invasion Fleet is the best right now. Although a 2nd unit of 20 gargoyles coming back is still strong. 🧐
1:34:05 the reason why the army list is so many dreadknights and it won't change is the total lack of anti-monster and anti-vehicle weaponry in the grey knights with only S6 melee weapons,.. it's problematic
give them hammers back, make their dreadnoughts good
Puretide engram nuerochip enhancement.. Is it Useless now as cant double up stratagems?
As far as anybody can tell...yes, it is now a dead enhancement.
@@SarajevoKyoto it was nearly dead before anyway,... Tau has so many issues that "none" felt like a kick to the balls
Great content guys! Love your analysis
why are two broadsides 180 points but three broadsides 300 points? is that a typo? or is there some overwhelming advantage to taking a max unit of broadsides that justifies the third one costing 20 points more? like the montka +1 ap stratagem or something.
It's 100% deliberate and not a typo it's to cost the montka missilesides more aggressively but not punish the other build archetypes
a tiny ork saw beeing a S12 and a giant enormous Scythe claw twice their size is only S9 is still mindblowing to me..
sure +1S in a nice little thing, but it is far from enough considering we lost all our easy scoring.. tyranids will struggle hard..
GK also took a stealth nerf now that NDKs tank shock for 8 instead of 16
I'm here for CSM. 😈
Where are you guys finding guard indirect has to hit on unmodified 4+?
Rules commentary near the bottom of the Warhammer community article. Not the two manuals.
@@bignickenergy3525 thank you, appreciate it
Lol Belakor doesn't give warp shadow aura 😅
Deathwatch kill teams should get Combat Squads. Would fix so much for them
Sustain hit one has more variability then +1 to hit.
Richard this is a plee to let the rest of us mere adepts have some fun and enjoy the moment. We know it must be difficult to refrain from dumpstering everyone out there with the leetest strats and tactics but have some grace. If you want to pilot Ad Mech at least throw up one L as to show some weakness and prevent the unrelenting back lash that is inevtible with an overperforming army. As always appreciate the noospheric transfer of your binharic genius to the rest of us.
They mentioned something about a stratagem change for unending swarm for tyranids, what one are they talking about?
All "reinforcements" type stratagems are now once per GAME, so a pretty sledgehammer nerf to Unending Swarm.
@@SarajevoKyoto Woah, did they change that his dataslate, or did they change this earlier?
@user-ny8oz7id7i It's on the dataslate, although it's way up at the top in "CORE RULES CHANGES" instead of in Tyranids. Also Tank Shock got changed to run off of the unit's T instead of S value.
@@SarajevoKyoto unending swarm officially ended.
Quick Question RE. Tau suits, Characters and the new Bring it Down Secondary: if a unit of suits led by a character gets wiped out in one go, what happens? / How many victory points do you get?
Do they count as 1 unit that has 20+ wounds and so gives up the full amount of points? Or do the units split up and become 2 units at the moment of their demise? (This matters if you only give the suits 2 shield drones, not 3.)
The units always count as individuals. So no reason to go to 15 wounds else you'd give up 8 points instead of only 6.
The instant the suits die, the Commander becomes his own unit, so they count separately.
I hope it will rule like that, but as it"s written now we have a bug.
You need to count the unit wound at the start of the battle > one unit of a+c = c wound and you look at the chart.
Exemple for the sisters paragon + Vhal (4*3+8) 20wound so 6VP for the unit as written on the card but if you kill the 3 paragons Vhal became a new unit so you can't use the 20+wound since you kill only 12wound so 2VP? and after if you kill Vhal again 2VP? but at the start of the battle none of those 2 units of 12 and 8 wound were on tne table only one unit of 20 wound....
@herendel hence my question. You're right, there is a potential bug/ point of confusion that could be argued either way. Glad to see it's not just Tau players asking this, it matters for Sisters too.
I thought in the new update characters only seperate out once the attacking unit has finished its attacks
Forget comments.. A like and about to share
Thanks as always for the great content
Did GSC used to come back on a 3+? I remember non battle line coming back on a 4+
Pretty sure it used to be on a 4+ with battleline getting +1 and/or if it was turns 1-2 +1. Then it became the 5+ with those same modifiers. Now its just 5+ with +1 if its turn 1-2. Seems like they nerf it a little each time.
mmm, so custodes got a buff, and a massive nerf in using battle tactics to get a save vs mortals
Someone at GW must really hate the Lord Discordant. It is so obviously not even close to being worth the points, NOBODY is using them, yet it never gets addressed. Meanwhile havocs are changed every update for no discernable reason.
maybe im just stupid, but if the admech get plus 1 to ballistic skill, whats tyhe point of also getting heavy, i thought you could only improve bs by 1. does this mean skitarii can hit on a 2 if they dont move?
Heavy is +1 to hit and +1 bs stacks with that :);
Yes. Bonus to hit and bonus to BS are not the same therefore stack
So which factions and units do you think made out best? Let’s get some replies going
Sons didn't get double dipped on points nerfs! Big win for all blue doomers
I like how daemons and tau got more buffs and cool things than tyranids :)
Im very unclear with the leadership cap.
Some ability say -1to their leadwrship. Those are clear.
Others say: -1 to the leadership test. Those are less clear.
Like guard can get +1bs and +1 to gut that do stack.
I belive the difference is that -1 to your Leadership is a flat debuff, any action that requires you to check it then will be -1.
However -1 to Leadership test would be for that instance, for example 'roll a battle shock at -1 to Leadership'. Following the roll the -1 is no longer in effect, so any subsequent challenges to Leadership will be at your normal values.
@@Henghast Hmm. I'm not usure if they stack for multiple rolls in a row. Im unsure if it stacks beyond -9 (the cap for leadership), because some -1 are to the stat and some are for the roll. 🤔
I’m kinda getting tired of the double nerf on abilities and points seems a little much
I don't see how Tau fire steams don't get anything,...
We are so mechaniback!
Archons now all have an aura of your stuff costs +1 cp? Seems good
Quick question: do characters attached to units count as a unit for strats like Protocol of the Eternal Revenant (Necrons: Awakened Dynasty) or Divine Intervention (Adepta Sororitas: Hallowed Martyrs)? This question involves the change to make those stratagems once per game
DW vets and Watchmaster (i.e. old stock) boosted 🤔... must be new models/boxes incoming!
Praise be to the gods of war that have blessed me with this knowledge
2OC on my giant bugs is useless... we need DAMAGE BUFFS. they just put one more model on there..
instead on OC while undamaged, in addition it should have given us yet another +1S al lthe time.. so now we finally can really hit some strength breakpoints..
Comments not for the algorithm gods, but for Tzeentch!
LoL, the Onager makes me laugh. I'm so excited for it now but with those changes, it highlights how far off the mark it was...
Wait .. where's the Necron Tomb Sentinel and Tomb Stalker???
Gone, reduced to atoms
@@karlwes6273 😭
CSM got dunked.
Minor point increase and keeps the talons from being too annoying
Yes it’s a nerf but it’s not as bad as it could be
@@karlwes6273 Also and increase to literally all CSM daka units outside characters.
When is Bryan Jones on art of war with imperial knights?
He has a game going up next week!
@ArtofWar40k is the game going to be on youtube using pariah nexus with the new balance dataslate and rules changes?
@@stephenneal9526 It will be using all the new rules, but released in the War Room. Next week's CZcams game is Tyranids vs Admech
@ArtofWar40k Hi, please can you me know when there is Imperial Knights and Bryan Jones content in the war room so i can sign up to view it please?
Thanks
@@stephenneal9526 The Necrons vs Imperial Knights battle report releases tomorrow and the State of the Faction for Knights releases next week I believe.
No Balance Dataslate for Grey Knights -- just points increases.
Technically there was, they nerfed VoD on the librarian
So Hype
They need to just remake large parts of the guard index now. Expert bombardiers needs to be replaced because it's useless now, as does one of the enhancements. The vect enhancement needs to come way down in points, and we can only use reinforcements once which okay but there needs to be more rebalancing then and things need to become cheaper yet again. Right now we basically have one awesome stratagem We can use once and one other that is useless, So we went from 6 to 4.5 stratagems.
I'm just pissed because there's no reason my non-meta guard list and needed the smackdown it just got. I run two FOBs, Creed with the free FOF, and then a set of 10 rough riders to charge and cycle with reinforcements. It's not a meta list, It's not that strong why is it trash now? Why are there so many units that are not regiment or squadron? Tank Commander? The vulture / Valkyrie? All the super heavies? Dumb all around.
Also twist of Fate is not worth nine cabal anymore. You are just not going to see it. It's worth the seven that doombolt costs. You will just always double doombolt.
Also what do you mean orks were in a good place before The codex? Their win rate was in the toilet before their codex dropped, and the internal balance was a joke. Speed waaagh needs buffs It should have got with these nerfs.
why they not just made tyranids +1 strength in synapse for ALL attacks is beyond me... the exocrine change makes NO sense with this.. we had 1 year of strength 9 and already yelled how we have no killing power.. S10 should be the minimum for all these giant claws and cannons...
and we still dont have a single anti T12+ weapons
tyranids before this update: how do we kill a daemon primarch reliably?
tyranids after this update: how do we kill a daemon primarch reliably?
Glad we got no meaningful buffs :)
Showed up late to the stream, did they ever clarify if stormravens in hover mode can be melee'd? I think its a really stupid idea that a guy got lifetime banned from a tournament over it and I think given that in a GW official event they said you cannot that GW should errata the hover rule that for engaging them in melee they must have the fly rule.
Whilel you're down there lik.... (algorithm)
Yikes!
Make nids scarey again lol
Ahhh. Why does GW hate my Deathwatch. Better be because of that redacted codex coming up.
Complete nerf to Guard, for absolutely no reason. Clearly that 46-47% winrate for all of 10th was absolutely crushing, thank god for GW stepping in to stop the madness.
The new detachment rule is a side grade - great I no longer have to stand still, but it keys off the wrong keywords. Several units don't have either - commissar, ogryn, bullgryn, ratlings, any Baneblade chassis? Nah sorry, no rules for you. Also no idea why GW thinks that infantry will only shoot at infantry and tanks only shoot at tanks. Leman Russ Punisher, the anti-infantry Russ? Nothing. Infantry Heavy Weapon squads with lascannons shooting at vehicles? Terrible. Brilliant game design, especially compared to Nids or BT who can just pick Lethals for their entire army, no hoops or bullshit qualifiers.
As for the indirect, they've decided to make it worse and cheaper - which as Ad Mech have shown is a terrible idea. I'd rather pay 195 for a Manticore, then pay even more for all the support to give it orders up to over a quarter of my army as long as I knew it would do its job reliably; than pay pennies for something useless. All the Guard stuff was already costed appropriately in the last MFM with little complaint, mass cuts aren't needed.
So with artillery banished and infantry regiments being gimped by the Reinforcements nerf, what's even left? Just a Guard villain arc where all that you see is triple Dorn, triple Demolisher, Leontus, 2 x10 Catachans and fill the rest up with armoured sentinel spam - yippee, what a fun time for my opponent and myself 🙄At least I can spend 1CP on Expert Bombardiers and do literally nothing!
"yippee, what a fun time for my opponent and myself "
I can guarantee you no one but you was happy with mass indirect guard flooding the mid board with bullgryns.
@@Speeds_Gaming_Corner I never played those lists at all, and now we're all being punished for the sins of a few (again) and because GW is lazy and can't balance their own game. And I guarentee the same fragile creatures will still complain about RD/LR spam just as hard as they do about indirect 🙄
Dot
Im up and here to see how dirty they do spacewolves money says t cav goes up nothing for them goes down. They dont listen to us and give champions slme buff that isnt character lead unit
Awoooooooooo
Honestly I don’t think it was anything to bad like t-cav going up sucks but it’s only 10 pts so not the end of the world
@murphy9362 wulfen and t cav so the average comp list went up 120 points and our 30 point trash unit for actions is null and void now and unlike with other stuff nothing else went down we also lost devastator marines apothecary biogris and ragnar still can't join company heroes
Firestorm / Salamanders got a brutal nerf for no reason. LR point increases (fine) - but now Immolation Protocols is just 1 CP not free, and cant use it twice.
Not sure what to make of your take on yet more Aeldari nerfs? They were at 47% winrate with that MSU style. You mention GW playing nerf whackamole with every style Aeldari have had so far this edition. I could get behind all but the last 2 rounds of nerfs to be honest.
We weren't allowed obscene Wraithknight MW spam, fair enough. Weren't allowed insane teleporting Yncarne shenanigans, fair enough. Weren't allowed practically M13" MW spamming Wraithguard, fair enough. Weren't allowed 3x Prisms blowing up every vehicle by turn 2, fair enough. Triple spinner making it impossible for the opponent to move? Not allowed, fair enough... But this latest iteration of MSU before the last round of nerfs was at 51%, it got nerfed and players stuck with it cause we're fast running out of viable options. Now they nerfed it again when we were at a 47% winrate.
What exactly would you describe as a reasonable Aeldari playstyle to go for going forward? Cause there's not much left to go with, and I don't see Herohammer being the only option left as a particularly healthy state for a faction to be in...
Im sorry but i disagree on Guard. That Change is so bad, it just shows that GW dont play their own Game. Now we have a Chunk of our Army with no working Detachment Rule. TC, Baneblade, Bullgryns etc.
Guard are the new Admech
You're high if you think that already nerfed indirect, ogyrn and super heavy shooting getting slightly worse isn't an amazing trade for every other unit getting lethals much more consistently lol
@@KharnTheBtrayer Tell that the leman russ punisher how much he loves His nonexistent lethal hits against infantry. Or Ask any anti Tank weapons in infantry squads how much they Love their nonexistent lethal Hits against vehicles. Stop it, or Take some more of your medicine. Thanks
release kroot hunting pack. they are mid on release and not that great, slightly over costed. What do we do? MMMM NERF EM!
As far as I'm excited about those changes, the community should be cautious for what it whishes, game mechanics/rules that seems frustrating doesn't mean they go against the relevant diversity of strategies. Public opinion based on feelings makes games flavorless.
i dont agree with you guys on orks, they literaly buchers 2 detachment greed tide is most likely dead in competative with those nefs + Cull the horde mission play, and bully boys are also dead , meganoby became unusable they were tanky but didnt do dmg before and now they arent tanky or do dmg and expansive as hell. mark my words 2 weeks of this dataslate orks will be below 40% winrate.
Now pure infantry guard is totaly dead and all would be playing tanks only lists and i realky hate it :/
Watch Masters getting guud.
finally, the space marine nerfs that everyone needed
New to Warhammer, man what a disappointment! So basically what were saying is the 10th edition of this game isn't even close to being done? We're basically playing the game while they're still in the process of finishing it...? By the time 11th comes out 10th will just get completed? Guess I'll print out the new rules and buy some glue sticks to fix the brand new Codex and Data cards I just bought! Are we suppose to just use the app and buy ALL the codex's in order to have info on our opponents army? Or ask them to see their phone if we have questions? What a freaking dumpster-fire man, Jesus. Is this normal in Warhammer? Am I getting this right here? What's the point of buying the codex and learning the game if its gonna change every two seconds..? Also why don't all the codexs come out at once? Like finish the game and then sell it to us and start working on the next one...? Super frustrating and discouraging for newer players
I agree with this, GW needs to switch to all digital rules
Awww, it's nice to see a newer player come into the game and learn this lesson right away. It takes some players a year, some take a decade, some never learn it. GWs written rules aren't worth the paper they are written on. Codexes, as an example, have 4 main components. 1 - Unit rules, 2 - points, 3 - fluff, and 4- pictures. Unit rules are are almost always out of date soon after codex release, sometimes even before then. You can find them online for free. Points section is worthless, check out the free MFM online. Fluff and pictures are easily found online and free.
Every rule you buy from GW means the fewer models you have. Also, if you don't like the idea of:
"So basically what were saying is the 10th edition of this game isn't even close to being done? We're basically playing the game while they're still in the process of finishing it...? "
then this might not be the hobby for you. Once upon a time when I was younger and more naive, I thought that every edition was an attempt to iterate on the rules and improve them. That isn't the point of editions. The point is to, apparently, re-write the game every 2 or 3 editions and force you to keep buying books.
Typically no GW would never change unit data sheets, it is exceptional that they're making broad sweeping changes. That is probably because of the books as you're stating. The community has been begging for online only rules that can be updated via downloading the update.
The rules have never and will never come out right at the start of an edition. GW have nowhere near the resources or ability to do deep enough testing for that. If there were two armies with trivially simple rules then maybe they could , but we have 23 armies with interesting rules so it's actually impossible to balance right first try. Previously that could mean your army was just unplayable for three years. It's much better for unit datasheet changes to be an option.
A crap ton better than old editions. Where there was no FAQ or nerfs/buffs. You got a broken codex and that is all you got
Watching along and OMG i just bought 5 Redemptor/Ballistus/Brutallis dreadnoughts for Ironstorm and its "Aura" gets nerfed... I also was about to start playing sisters and they got HARD SLAPPED but apparently OP so probably needed.
What? Where are you seeing the nerf to the Redemptor? Also you can’t even run 5 of them so that’s on you. Sisters were super OP with their new codex so the points need was needed.
Sir, you can only run 3 copies of one datasheet bar battleline units which the redemptive is not
@skillfulwave6592 well actually I have 4 basilica, 1 brutalis, and 1 redemptor I'm probably going to 3d print some alternative arms to swap them around
@@DaGwimWeaper nerf was on ironstorm, as long as sisters still feel good afterwards I'll be happy
@@Scotty86doo then the nerf wasn’t to the Redemptors because nothing really touches them, it was just the Ironstorm detachment. Clarification goes a long way.
you can NOT moveblock big knights anymore.
Even when Aeldar will be at 45- % winrate, people will still be happy when they get nerfed.
Units in this army are so expensive. This is absurd.
changing exocrine S from 8 to 9 does basically almost NOTHING.. stop overhyping meaningless changes...
itr is better against necrons, grey knights and other tyranids.. and thats it? it still does shit against tanks, it still olny wounds many terminators and other -1 to wound on a 4 and still does shit against anything stronger, which there is A FRICKING TON MORE of them than the other 3....
Marines getting fucked again…yay so tired of this shit, guilliman and all captains need points decreases SEVERELY. Stop nerfing codex marines because non compliant chapters get access to our shit when they shouldn’t in the first place
Exactly. Nerfing codex Marines even more because the other guys have more options
Complete opposite opinion, I think all the divergent CSM legions should get access to the regular CSM units.
@@jonathanharris9717 At least the machines, though ideally they'd be separate datasheets per cult faction, so they don't have to balance for DG and TS etc etc at the same time. This is what they should do for the divergents, even though it's bloaty.
I really dont get the eldar hate anymore. The winrate is not stellar and there are just a couple of builds. I really dont see how another 160 points nerf is doing anything there. Nothing in the points decreases makes me suddenly want to include a BS 4 phantom lord that costs more than a hellbrute and cant even use vehicle strats. And with pariah it is possible every game against eldar will be at least 40 primary while secondaries have been reduced as well. 40 % inc?
Counter argument: Warp Spiders’ jump is 24” and doesn’t count as advancing, making them single-handedly the best action-monkeys in the game imo.
This in addition to being generally faster than most other armies means they are generally better at the new actions anyway. So I’m okay if they take a few key hits to the particularly fast units.
@@willhenry7305 That is one of the nerfed units. And yes, eldar are better at secondaries. That is not new. On the other hand their primary game is not very good. Also there are lots of primary missions now that generate seondary points as well if you survive on an objective while seondary points in general have been reduced.
So yes, warpsiders can put some work in. And I would really trade some of that secondary play for better primary play and actually useful battleline units.
you can clearly see bias here, and see that people only judge armies by their own kwoledge.. saying you are sad about genestealers (and beeing right about it) and saying tyranids "look great and got alot of buffs" (which is wrong) just shows that.
Tyranid buffs are widely irrelevant, with just a small improvement to specifically norns, the winged hive tyrant 1 in 6 times to the regular hive tyrant, the swarm lord and a screamer killer standing next to a maleceptor in combat... which are all still HEAVILY overcosted for what they do.
And yes the neurotyrant can now for a SINGLE anti tank unit with zoans for finally some slightly more reliable anti tank shooting.. but still only on slow moving 24" guns that are VERY easily killed.. and is massively overcosted at 305 points to be able to kill a single tank that costs half as much..
And this is all we got to compensate one of the largest and biggest nerfs in this entire update, beeing unable to score points easily turn 1 army wide, and is much more expensive and model heavy from turn 2 onwards now..
in additon to swarm beeing nerfed, invasion fleet beeing nerfed and only invaders getting some new models which they always should have.
and all this to a 45% winrate army..