DCS World: AH-64D Apache Trimming made easy (Check you settings!)
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- Some important trim settings in options followed by a quick and easy tutorial of what might help you a lot. Some things to watch for and some things to think of.
Having trouble with the resolution to record in/upload in with the new 21:9 aspect ratio. Hopefully I can get the quality on the video up in later videos. - Hry
So the wide-screen format is really screwing with things here, will try and fix it for the next video.
I use OBS to record on my wide screen. It allows me to narrow down the view to just what I want. It's free, too.
@@ceruleanskies1414 Thank you so much for the suggestion! I'll check it out!
Thank you for the support and have fun.
I feel like you did explain this pretty well in all your videos, but might be worth changing the defaults since so many people have self centering sticks/rudders. Thanks for all the crazy amounts of work that goes into these modules!
Thank you and the whole team for a fantastic release, I'm 100% sure we're all having tons of fun with it! 😀
@@haaake Wags did and always does, I'm thinking "If I missed it I suspect more people did". Also, making these little videos helps me understand the modules better, it gives me a different purpose of training things with them and it also forces me to learn video editing more which I need for other stuff as well. More than this though, I gets stuff out of my head, kind of like a diary 😁
Wow. Noobie to Apache DCS. I've watched dozens of videos to understand the trim on the Apache. This is simply the best video. Well done, Wilbuz. Thank you!! Got it now.
Hey!
Thank you so much for the kind comment! I'm really glad it helped you! It's such a fun module and not hard to fly once you get past the initial trim difficulties. Also note that there is now a way to reset the trim as with the other modules. Just map it in the settings, though I find I don't use it as much as with other helicopters. Good luck on your Apache journey!
I think this is the video a LOT of people will be looking for. I figured this out after a few hours, but no one I've seen has described the trim function so well.
Thank you so much! I'm really glad you took the time to watch and comment even though you figured it out your self! 😀
Of all those trim videos out there, this one was the most useful. The problem with the others is that they do not show which trim options they use in the menu, and by that I mean the "force trim up " button. Good work.
Thank you so much for taking the time to comment and I'm really glad it helps. Also, thank you for stating what I'm doing right as I know my tutorials can be very long, but for reasons like this 🙂
you sir are a life saver. Been trying to work out the trim in this bird. Many thanks
My pleasure! Glad it helped and thanks for commenting!
The huey trim mode was more intuitive and easy to use... A trim reset command could be useful imo.
They are quite different and still kind of similar. I missed the reset at first as well but after a couple of hours now it's not an issue. And DCS is about realism and I suspect this is the best option of trimming in that case. Controls in real life and controls for computers can never be quite the same so perhaps a reset function would be a nice addition for those who want it. I suggest working some with it though, it works really well as is 😊
@@wilbuzllf5057 according to casmo the apache never had a rest trim
I agree! I wish there was a trim reset button!
@@wilbuzllf5057 They need to add a reset bind. I agree that the real deal doesn't have a reset trim button but the real deal also has a NON self centering cyclic. I'm willing to bet that the majority of us do. That alone justifies the reset button imo.
@@TheMrGamma195 That is true and it doesn't 🙂
I feel I am getting the hang of it without much issue after a couple of hours of flight but I can see the "want" for one considering we have different controls compared to real life (self centering sticks etc).
Great job, good video. I was just trying to solve this but you have answered it all in one. Essential information!
Thank you! I'm really glad it helped you! I feel the module is too great for people to drop/struggle with due to one small setting!
Great video. Glad you did this cos I've been fighting this beauty for hours
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! I'm really glad it helped, it made a world of difference for me, especially with the pedals.
Nice!! Thank you for sorting this out for me , this was so to the point of my problems understanding the trim.
Thanks! I'm glad it helped! Hopefully it stops more of us from twisting the Apache around light poles 😀
Great video, I'm finally getting the hang of trimming. Would love to see a video on some tips to transitioning from forward fight to hovering, managing speed and descents, mine usually look like a dropped rock. Keep up the good work!
Thanks! And thanks for commenting and giving me some inspiration for future videos! I'll put up transitioning, hover and some maneuvering for the next one, hopefully this weekend is my plan! 🙂
It’s hard to translate how the trim in real life works in the virtual world. One thing I’ve seen tho is people making too large of trim inputs. Really don’t need to. Good job.
Hey man, thanks! 😀 I notice I completely missed your comment, and many others 😕 No enough youtube experience.
Yeah it's almost impossible to translate real world trim in most cases, I think DCS has lots of options and functions to make it as best it can.
I did notice, just as you say, no need for very large inputs, especially in the Apache.
@@wilbuzllf5057 don’t worry, cherry, you’ll figure it out 😏. Jk. Good job.
@@CasmoTV Thanks for the support! 😀
Please continue with the Apache guides. I learned so much from your 'older' Shark guides. Thanks for a start on the new Apache guides
Thank you for the support and motivation! I'm so glad to hear they helped! 😀
I will hopefully get the next video up this weekend, should be aimed towards flying the thing, some tips and tricks. 😊
perfect diagnosis. clear and concise. Thanks Dr House .😃
😂 Dr.House 😂 Thanks for a good laughter and for taking the time to comment!
well this is the best explanation of the trimmer on CZcams ,thanks
Thank you so much! I'm glad it can help! 😀
Thanks for the video, I think it really helps people when it comes to SETTING the trim, and you briefly went into backing out of that set trim as you started to slow down and come in for a straight landing casual landing, but one of the biggest problems right now, and NOT having a TRIM RESET, is having to transition quickly out of that set trim to say a quick hard 90 or 180 deg turn and getting low for example. I would like to see a video of someone doing that without a TRIM RESET!
Thanks! Great idea actually and I understand what you mean! I've been working on maneuvers like that (not saying I'm good at it) but will upload a video of what I think/do in combination with some general maneuvering 🙂
Excellent! nice and clear and to the point! Thank you
Thank you! I'm glad! 😀
Really enjoy your Video Tutorials. I hope we will see more of them for the AH64.
May you also post a Video for your control settings? I am still struggling with the mapping...
Hey Thorsten! Thanks that makes me very glad to hear! You'll see more from the AH64 for sure!
Great idea! I'll go through some of the basic controls and perhaps the more advanced ones in a different video, I'm quite sure they will be way too long otherwise the way I do my tutorials. 🙂
With "Central-Position Trimmer mode" I found it easiest to use like the "Force Trim Release" implies: press and hold(!) Trim Release - move stick to new position until you are in a stable attitude - release the Trim Release to keep the new position. The actual "trim" action is commanded by the button release, not the depress action.
In the real aircraft the pilot depresses the Trim Release button to disengage the magnetic force trim that holds the physical stick in the "new" center position, so he can move the cyclic without fighting against the hydraulics. When he releases the button, it re-activates the magnetic brake and holds the physical stick in the new "center" position.
If you use it in this way you only need to re-center your springloaded Joystick if you want to fly straight for a while and do small corrections and/or take your hands of the stick...
If people transition from the UH-1H Huey, I recommend to set the anti-torque-pedals to "No spring" like you did, even with spring loaded pedals, as most will be used to keep their feet on the pedals and no trim, anyway.
Excellent explanation of the different uses and real life technique! You may very well have a point with the spring loaded pedals as well, I'll try and ask some buddies how they feel about it when testing the different settings. 🙂
Very helpfull! I have to reset my muscle memory now as I can already counter the aircraft behaviour quite smooth after trim up with the "wrong" trim settings ☺️👍
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Yup I had to do the same even though I only had a few hours in it before I made the changes, it's amazing how well and fast we can adjust 🙂
Thank you so much!!!! My god it's so much better now and makes perfect sense.
Thank you for watching and commenting! Yeah it is, isn't it? It was kind of like an eye opener and I've flown the choppers in DCS quite a bit and oddly enough the default way is the way I trim the Black Shark...
i love you man, you have helped me alot!
Haha thanks man! And sorry about the late reply, missed a bunch even though I tried to keep up with the flow! Thanks for taking the time to comment!
very clear explained.... thanks a lot 👍
Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment!
The only vid I need atm
I'm glad! Thanks! 😀
Thank you so much, that is exactly the issues i was having :)
My pleasure! I'm glad it helped! 😀
Now why is that 'Central Position Trimmer Mode' not the default setting in options? Very few people have a force feedback stick. Do they even make them anymore? The last one I had was a MS Sidewinder 2 back when Windows 98 was a thing...
I agree, I was very surprised when I noticed it as well. I think it can cause quite a bit of trouble for people if they don't change it.
@@wilbuzllf5057 its for me i still use my ms ff2 its litertally taken decades for sims to make them great. DCS is awesome on the ff2 glad i kept it
@@mcatech05 It's really nice to hear there is still some love for the Sidewinder FF2. I had two Sidewinder's without FF but they were the best sticks of the time, the hats finally wore out after many years use but everything else was flawless and they didn't use potentiometers like most other sticks of the time.
It's very nice to hear DCS finally gives the stick a sim worthy of it 🙂
@@wilbuzllf5057 for sure. I can’t help but think how amazing a modern well built force feedback could be. I would imagine it could be very popular in dcs, ms fsm etc. I feel the ff2 was to far ahead of it’s time, the implementation of force feedback pitch trim etc was clunky at best but the same stick 20 years on in modern titles is fantastic.
@@mcatech05 I believe you are right, I think a lot has happened in those roughtly 20-22 years it's been since the FF was introduced/widely popular. With new modern technique there could be so much more to it, not to mention the fact that you could do away with springs in the joysticks and get a much more real feel for especially helicopter flight. Add some movement when firing and some options to have it just shake when firing but not when flying (I wouldn't wanna get carpel tunnel syndrome from a simulator) and it would be quite awesome.
There weren't many force feedback joysticks though and it never caught on, I do think it could really catch on now though with DCS and MS Flight Simulator.
Thanks for this, for the first couple of hours, i thought my rudder controls were broken 😂
My pleasure! I think many of us thought our pedals were broken or that we had developed some kind of leg issues, I'm willing to bet the trim settings caused a lot of Apaches to be wrapped around light poles in the early hours after release 😂
Thanks for the very instructive vid. My first flight after watching it, I wasn't flying like a drunken duck!
😂 Thanks for watching! I kind of felt the same way after I made the settings adjustment, first flight and first trim I was like "Ahhhhh, so this is how it should feel!". Kind of liking holding that bathroom visit for WAY too long 😂
Very nice and well done video. Not sure what your monitors aspect ratio is but when watching on my 21:9 monitor, there is a very thick black border around the edges. Figured I would share since you mentioned it there at the end. I will also add my vote for a trim system that functions like this one does not require the stick or pedals to be centered so quickly. I admittedly only have a little time in the Apache so far and am still trying to find curves that work for me. Great video and keep up the good work!
Thank you very much for watching and taking the time to comment!
I also have a 21:9 aspect ratio on the new display (LG 38"). I'm crappy at video editing but not this crappy usually, something went very wrong in the settings here. My first export of the file gave me pure HD (1920x1080) but it could be stretched to fit the display at least, I should have stayed with that. This export went all weird on me and when watching it on my display I get the same issues you have, I'm surprised people watch it like this, to be honest I'm not sure I would have managed to stay with it my self.
I need to figure out a way to film in 21:9 and just have black borders on the top and bottom for those folks with normal aspect ratio or just revert back to 16:9 for when filming, though that will cause some issues if I want to film missions or online play as I will use the full 21:9 in those cases.
Very helpful. Thank you.
My pleasure! I'm glad it helps! 🙂
Nice, helps me a lot.
Thanks, I'm glad! 😊
Thank you for this!
My pleasure! Thanks for commenting 🙂
OMG THIS IS AMAZING
😂 It does make a difference, doesn't it? 😀
Awesome stuff thank you!
Thanks man!
We just need to get the trim reset bind like we have for other helis far.
Jag får börja se igenom dina videos innan vi flyger, så du slipper upprepa allt en xtra gång för mig 😆
Nej, vi hjälper ju han att minnas allt.
Först får han lära dig och sen när jag hoppar på ett par dagar efter så får han repetera det för mig.
@@-Rambi- sant! 😆
LOL! Det funkar på andra sättet också 😛
@@-Rambi- Jag är beredd på vad som helst så länge du hoppar på! 😀
Thanks for the advice….
My pleasure 🙂
Thanks for the info…
My pleasure 😊
I'm having an issue where if I fly anything but the taxi and takeoff tutorial the controls for pitch is somehow locked. I see the stick moving in the cockpit as I move my flight stick but the apache does not respond by pitching forward or backward.
Hey!
If you're talking about the actual tutorials, make sure that you press Spacebar when the text/voice tells you too. If my assumption here is correct you are in active pause mode (quite common at the start of the tutorials and some other missions) and have to un-pause it in order to fly.
Active pause is a way to be able to do pretty much everything without moving anywhere so all your controls will work and all your systems but you won't go anywhere. Beware though, every weapon and such still move which means if you active pause in a combat area to check on things you're a sitting duck as the enemies can fire at you as much as they wish.
Hope it helps. 🙂
Awesome Video ! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Sweet! Thanks a lot for the kind comment!! 😀
Great video, but was to small, but I got it. Thank you for the tips,
Thanks! Glad it worked anyway, trying to sort out the wide screen issue in a decent way. 🙂
Instead of highlighting the graphic in the top left, which is really handy BTW, take a look at your rudder pedals themselves in the cockpit to see what they do when you set the trim. They'll stay in the position you set the trim in even tho the rudder pedals your real feet are on are centered.
Thanks! That's also a very helpful and clever way of doing it, I'll remember it for future videos, I completely ignored the actual controls and concentrated on the graphic. Great suggestion!
In the beginning of this video you talked about using the push forward trim. From that point forward, you talked about trim, but you do not say which of the 4 trims you were using for the remaining of the video. Did you use trim release? If so, which trim is it?
Hey!
Sorry about the late reply, I noticed I missed answering several replies even though I try to get them all in!
I only use push forward to trim, that's the only one usable right now (more or less, altitude trim is there). So just trim up and quick presses (no holding) in order for it to trim to the speed and angle you want. Hopefully that helps! Otherwise, ask away 🙂
My confusion with this is the Only one trim button set in the control setup then during the video no mention of hitting that button or other settings for trim if you only need a up trim why all the others left right down what about turning trim on and off? or do you not need that? Why call it trim up if if has nothing to do with any up control? do the others work the same way? no matter what right or left up or down they all do the same thing to the same controls?
Hey and sorry about the late reply.
The module is in Alpha state, just released when this video was made. At the time the Trim up was the only functional mode from the trimmer (well actually, one more way worked but wasn't at the time that useful). As I go through the control setup in the beginning of the video I explain some about the trim hat and as I have the trim set to a hat it's easiest to say trim up, down, left and right indicating the way I press the hat.
There has since been several updates to the module which impacts trim and trim settings including auto altitude hold and others.
Trim left, right and down all do different things now though they weren't available at the release of this video.
@@wilbuzllf5057 Thank you Clear now. Thanks again.
Is it possible to reset all the trimming, or do I have do go the way back and click the trim button?
Sorry about the late reply! It's not possible to reset it like you do in other choppers in DCS, you have to go back and re-trim when you transition back.
The trim in the bird didn't confuse me, because it's similar to how the trim in the Blackshark worked. So my familiarity there had me ready for this.
But the setting is STILL useful, no hopping around in flight because this essentially makes 'fake' at home controls work like the 'real' cyclic worked, where magnets force the trimmer to stay where you trim it to.
There must be a trim reset on the aircraft though??? - since in the real bird the cyclic is physically held in that new position by magnets - and that position will be wrong, as soon as you change what you want to do with the aircraft.
You are right in that it behaves like the Black Shark, I think what threw me off the most was the rudder trim, I suspect the same went for many others. There is no trim reset in the module as it is now, I doubt there is a future plan for it. To be honest I don't feel I need it anymore now either, most trim settings are small enough to change them back quite fast IMO. But I do understand those who want the feature.
@@wilbuzllf5057 Yeah, I agree that we don't need it in a sim, but the fact that its in the real bird and not modeled in the sim is weird to me. Especially since it would be equally useful in the sim as it is in the real bird.
Great video though, you beat the several bigger Apache channels to a Trimmer video!
thankyou soo much
My pleasure!
Yeah, didn't work out so much. lol!But, thanks for the help!
What didn't work out? 😛
Practice and practice will help if you're still having trouble, especially if you're used to the fixed wing birds in DCS moving to a helicopter takes some extra time 🙂
Let me know if I can help in any other way 🙂
This may be a really dumb question but what trim buttons are you pressing when you say trim it. You showed the key bindings but never explained what exact buttons you press to trim the aircraft.
He is using force trim up only. Set your controls where you want- force trim up to set them.
That is actually a very good question! I should have been more clear!
Trim buttom used is "up". So if you set it to a 4 way hat for example make sure you set "up" to the actual "up" position of the hat. In airplanes and trim you often set the "up" button to "down" in order trim the nose down using the up button to have the same up/down feel as the actual stick but in the Apache just set the buttons as they should be.
There will be a future video of trim again once all the functions are in place, left/right trim pressing will affect altitude and attitude trim for example.
@@wilbuzllf5057 thanks for clearing it up for me.
@@whoobsg4arenachampion594 My pleasure! Hope it all helps! 🙂
Good Man Tank You ;)
Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment!
Thank you..
My pleasure!
what button to map in controls for the trim ?
Under pilot controls look for force trim hold. "Up" sets the trim like the video.
What @Jeremy T said! 🙂
I don't understand at the end how you were able to slow down so smoothly and quickly without pulling and pitching the nose up?
Hey!
I'll post another video concentrating more on the flying and practicing of the module this week. I'll try and give some advice on things like this.
Meanwhile, let me try and explain.
If you start at the 12:00 minute mark and look and my trim, you will see the trim (red cross) is roughly 60% forward. I then start bringing the stick back without re-trimming at the same time as I lower the collective (look at the power going down for the engines, top left of the IHADSS).
I first re-trim when I've pulled the stick back quite a bit from the trim position I have.
I keep meeting with the collective but make sure you don't lower it too far and get too slow. The slower you get the more power you need to apply again, this is what people often do wrong, they forget to apply power when to get slower and then reduce their altitude so fast they can't recover from it.
Look at my power, it's as low as 17% but just for a second or so before I bring it back up to counter the low speed and lack of lift.
Hard to explain, easier to show I hope! Keep a lookout for a new video this week 🙂
@@wilbuzllf5057 no you are actually did a good job explaining it because late last night I actually kept re-watching that specific timeframe and watch the stick movement on the left corner window and wondered if it had something to do with the trim setting that you had. But I think I am guilty of reducing collective too much when slowing down thinking I need to. But it was late last night so I just went to bed I'll retry it again today
@@WilliamDeanPlumbing Let me know how it works! I've lowered the collective too fast in all helicopters a lot more times than I would like to admit. Practice in each module helps and flying just one helps even more but there are too many fun modules to choose from 🙂
@@wilbuzllf5057 did a few stops from 130 (mph?) and I did do better, but pretty sure my sucky old Saitek throttle with its jumping around inputs is really making my collective to unreliable, looking to purchase a virpil setup but not thrilled with the LONG wait to get it here in California. ugh. But I'm pretty sure it will help a lot.
@@wilbuzllf5057 also I just streched the video to the edges and it was fine to watch on my 85" tv.
I can't keep the AH64 in the air - Virpil stick for cyclic pitch/roll - Whartog throttle as collective - thrusmaster rudders for antitorque. The thing either falls down like a brick of goes into a steep climb (without stalling) into the stratosphere faster than Mach1 (with sonic boom) - something is very wrong there. Anybody the same problems? What am I doing wrong here? The Huye for instance I can land on a dime...
If you can get the Apache to go Mach 1 something must be very wrong indeed. It shouldn't be possible even with weird settings.
Can you describe it more? Have you tried making a mission and starting in the air?
@@wilbuzllf5057 maybe it has to do with my old whartog throttle - allthough as I said flying in the Huye or the Ka50 is very simple - sometimes I can fly a km in a straight line and suddenly the torque and rotor go crazy, it than goes either very quickly down into the ground or up into space - I just ordered some decent rudders and a throttle from Virpil - with my current setup I can do the most crazy manouvres in WW2 fighters - but with the Apache it goes completely wrong - I hope it is because of my controls or maybe because of the early access flight model that does not suit my setup (flying in VR with HP reverb G2 on RTX 2080 and Intel 12900K)
@@solar-e-bike-touring-europe It just sounds so very weird. I mean, I get that a bad throttle can spike or loose connection causing you to go down or full power but even at full power you'd just go up according to the flight model. Your other setup isn't anything weird either, VR and normal hardware for the sim. As it doesn't happen in any other module I'd try and film it and make an upload for Eagle Dynamics as a possible bug. Try and figure out how you can make it happen or when it happens. If it was hardware it should affect all modules not just the Apache. It might also be worth to try and remove the module and re-install it.
@@wilbuzllf5057 ok I will make a video with the sonic booming Apache and upload it on my channel, after that I will try a complete reinstall of the open world beta including the ah64 module
@@wilbuzllf5057 just uploaded 2 videos on my channel (HD-processing is still going on), in the first video the AH64 reaches mach1 with very high RPM, in the second video the AH64 is outer space...
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you 🙂
I was too impatient and excited to fly and spent the first 3-4 hrs of flying with out any trim commands 😅
I know what you mean! I really wanted to get in the air as well, I set up trim and some other control first but then got flying. Good thing about the Apache is that you can actually fly it very well without the trim, no need to trim until around 70 knots or so or if you want to remain in a hover/semi hover and take some pressure of the stick and pedals 🙂
It's an awesome module for sure!
Love it if the game was on Xbox one.
I have to be honest and say I can't agree. I think consoles have ruined the future of so many games due to the developers limiting the games to console technology. I think DCS needs high end machines that consoles just can't handle 😕
Let's talk about that aspect ratio...
Let's talk about how wrong it all went! 😱
Surprised anyone watched it anyway actually. Will find a solution for future videos, in one way or another.
Your wide screen is not easy to see well what you do in AH 64D Apache. It is not goog at all!
I agree! It’s what I wrote in the pinned reply here, a mistake on my side with my new monitor. It’s fixed in the following video and all others from now on 😊
No se puede ver las setting...normal screw man!
?
Cant see anything hes clicking on.............
Well, as I explained and showed early in the video. All the buttons are set up on the controls via the settings menu. I don't click on anything per say but rather use the hat on the stick mostly. Watch it again from the beginning and it will make sense 😊