This is the only scene in the entire run of DS9 where Garak is completely truthful with no guile whatsoever. Andrew Robinson portrayed him magnificently.
The times for games is over. The government who exiled him no longer exists. The many Cardassians whom who wanted him dead or he wanted dead are effectively all dead. He's a chess player with no one left. This is indeed perhaps the one time he doesn't spin one of his fictions with Bashir.
@@XX-sp3tt most of the people who were guilty for his exile had already been killed or died by the time of the dominion invasion with Tain and Dukat being the last two. No this is grief realizing he is home but it’s all gone now the Cardassia he knew and loved was now gone the family home he wanted to retire to burned down. Then realizing Cardassians did it to themselves.
You forgot this one: Garak: I'll go along on your fool's errand, but I want one thing to be perfectly clear: I have no intention of sacrificing my life to save yours. If it looks like we're in danger of being captured, if there's any sign of trouble at all, you're on your own! Commander Sisko: Mr. Garak, I believe that's the first completely honest thing you've ever said to me.
@@XX-sp3ttoh hel be bak' hel plays a friendly game with bashir in the future But indeed, probably none where the stakes were as high as on old cardassia
It’s funny because if you were going to make this show today, it’s quite possible Garak would emerge as the dark horse protagonist, kind of like Better Call Saul. He was in some ways a decade or so ahead of his time.
Every episode with him was a breath of fresh air. I got a pleasant surprise when he would appear. I do believe originally he wasn't intented to appear in that many episodes either, but fans loved him immediatly and so they kept writing him in.
All the Cardassians were good actually, Garak, Dukat, Demar and especially the single performance by Harris Yulin as Gul Darhe'el/Aamin Marritza. The episode Duet was possibly one of the most memorable in the series because of his performance
Look at the face of Bashir at the end, he is at the brink of crying. He basicly just lost a good friend and realises that even if they meet again, it will never be the same. Compare the Bashir we have here with the smug unsufferable young doctor we had at the beginning of the series. I think pairing him up with Garak was the best idea the Writhers of DS9 ever had. And they had many great ideas.
It is interesting to note Garak's assessment of the Cardassian's guilt. It was established in the series that in the Cardassian justice system, the accused is always found guilty - no exceptions. And Garak explained that in their mystery novels, while everyone is guilty, the mystery is to find out who is guilty of what. Here, in their last scene, Garak follows this Cardassian thinking pattern and concludes that his entire race is "guilty as charged". One of the great things about DS9 was continuity in their characters personality.
Nice spot, i hadn't made that connection but it fits perfectly. It also ties in with Garak's patriotism and love for his people whilst never being blind to their (many) faults, esp after he was exiled
Garick was everything noble and tragic about a cardassian. I think part of it was him convincing himself they were guilty, so the tragedy wouldn't be so horrifically chaotic, and unjust. Cardassians have a definite feeling that their way of life creates a sense of justice. I feel like Cardassians convince themselves of the accused's guilt because the idea of the alternative, that there is injustice, and we can't fight it without allowing ourselves to be vulnerable, is just something they can't accept.
It also fits well with the episode "Duet." When Kira uncovers the ruse, Not Gal Darheel (phonetic spelling) says that all Cardassians have to be punished, that Cardassia must realize it's guilt. Guilt and punishment were recurring motifs in DS9.
While true, i think the reason had more to do with the fact that being optimistic allows the possibility for huge disappointment. And when you’re a cardassian who betrays his own people for their own benefit overall despite knowing it will lead to their eventual oblivion by the tens of millions… the level of disappointment not just in your people, but in yourself, might be too much to bear.
But then, aside from a very few scenes, you can't always be sure that the mask really has dropped - it was one of the things I found most compelling, if sometimes frustrating
The way Siddig plays this scene is really interesting - he doesn't believe a word he's saying and you can hear his lack of conviction as he reflexively tries to offer these platitudes, because he can't think of anything else to do. Garak can't help but laugh.
Odo and Quark, Garak and Bashir, Sisko and Dukat, this show did an amazing job of building relationships between people who were opposites of one another.
@Jesse Bogdonoff Well said indeed. They understood the need for that dichotomy. The original series really had that with McCoy and Spock and all of their bantering back and forth. TNG didn't have that as much, despite having a stellar cast, maybe Picard and Riker. But DS9 understood the need for that character dichotomy and they played it to the hilt with their entire cast. Odo and Quark, Kira and Quark, Odo and Kira, Kira and Dax, Dax and Sisko, Sisko and O'Brien, Sisko and the Kai even. Those dichotomies, which were never 100% good and evil, made the show so complex and gave us a lot to think about. That's why it worked so well. They didn't beat you over the head, they made you think things over. My greatest regret in DS9 is that we honestly didn't get to see Garak and Dukat spend more time together.
@Jesse Bogdonoff I wholeheartedly agree. It is a credit to the writers how the relationships between these characters were developed as the series progressed. They felt natural and believable and none were forced.
Garak was Star Trek's finest character: The flawed patriot. You could never understand him unless you realized that at the bottom of all of his fabrications, he really loved Cardassia. He might comfort you one day, and shoot you the next. If he did, that's why.
@@pittland44 When I listen to Garak talk about his people, I think about Germany at the end of WWII. I imagine a German speaking the same way looking on the devastated cities and the millions of his people dead around him.
@@pittland44 i think he realised that over the course of the series. he started thinking he had to give his life for the state, and ended up fighting against it to save his people and culture
@@evertonporter7887 That was very much the point. It was also (very obviously) a parallel for Cardassia and Bajor, I imagine there was a conversation like this in every Bajoran resistance cell after the Cardassian occupation ended.
"Our literature was second to none" That must've taken heroic self restraint for Bashir not to interject and point out how crappy and formulaic Cardassian writing was.
@Hakageryuu uhuh, and what do recipes and computer programs have to do with literature? Complete predictability might be useful in some contexts, but that doesn't mean that literature is one of them. It's a poor analogy, which does nothing to explain why Cardassian literature, which regurgitates and recycles state propaganda in predictable formats, is anything other than bad.
Only from a human perspective though. Bashir was looking at their crime thrillers like a "whodunit". But Cardassian crime thrillers were more of a "how&whydunit"
I think he shows here that despite his exasperation with what he considers his naivety, Garak genuinely liked Bashir, he enjoyed his company and enjoyed indulging his love of mystery and intrigue.
Andrew Robinson even came back and authored " A Stitch In Time", which take a look at the post - Dominion War Cardassia landscape from Garak's perspective and goes into a lot of details about his past.
@@shawnlion8181 2000 release date on the book so this would be long before the cast and crew started to actively trying to retcon their own work in interviews due to the shifting sands of politics drifting them out beyond the generally welcoming nature of most trek fans.
Bashir probably knew that he and Garak would never meet again, and he couldn't bear to look as his friend left, knowing he was leaving his life forever.
To be honest, it hurts a bit seeing Garak finally shed all of that weight he had been carrying during DS9's whole run. Sadly, here, he's basically alone, as in, not having a lot of people who have anything in common with him to talk to. Father-dead, mother-dead, mass of Cardassians-dead. For him, his own hell may have just begun when the Dominion War ended. It'd probably take about 15 years for him to find his own inner peace again. I could never imagine having to go through what he did. o.o
Senior Citizens feel similar, especially Centennials. Outliving their families, their friends, all familiarity no more. Add in the ongoing pain, it's no wonder looking forward to death becomes appealing & who can blame such? Garek no doubt wishes he could be dead too.
I love how vague his send off was. He always lived in secret and shadow, and he leaves the same way. In fact, there’s a good chance no one ever heard from Garak after this. These are uncertain times.
If you're looking for a happy ending for Garak and Bashir, try searching for "little achievements" on CZcams. It's a fanfiction Siddig and Robinson (the original actors who played Julian and Garak) interpreted, set I think twenty years from the end of the series. It's really touching and sweet ❤️
What an ACTOR! This scene shows us something we've never seen before - Garak momentarily taking off his mask. Then at 1:31 we suddenly see him put it back on. Incredible performance!
I imagine that was a truly difficult scene for them both. As I imagine all of the 'last' scenes are for any actor. You're not just seeing them in character. You're seeing genuine friends who know they are saying goodbye. The way Andrew slides his hand down Alexander's shoulder. Truly one of the more emotional scenes in this episode.
He may not have been in the main cast, but Garak is my favorite character on the show. I'm glad he became more prominent as the seasons progressed. The Cardassians could have easily been painted as 100% irredeemable bad guys, but DS9 did a good job of fleshing them out, and showing the good as well as the bad. All too often star trek and sci fi races in general are defined by just one trait that is exaggerated in order to contrast them with humans, but the Cardassians felt very fleshed out to me.
Well, one other reason Star Trek does the "one character trait race" thing is that, most of the time, the encounter with a given race is a character study of the human race. And, if the race/culture is only in one episode, that usually works from a narrative point of view. But when a race is a recurring one (Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians) you can flesh them out more to give a more complete story.
i have always thought that any double episode like the first one was the movie, anything else would have diluted the profound message of the futility of wars of conquest.
1:31-1:36 that is the REAL Elim Garak... the transfixed haunted stare of a horrified man who finally let it all sink in. His Cardassia is gone. There is no bloodlust in those eyes, no psychotic rage building, no denial of guilt, no promises of revenge... just absolute horror for 800 million dead. Garak will suffer, his worst suffering has yet to begin, but he will survive. Plain simple Garak has always been exceptional.
More than that... Garak is *rarely* honest, and when he is, it is a very big deal. When he let Dr. Bashir stay in the cell when Elim died, he was letting him hear everything as a demonstration of his complete trust. Here, I think he's also being honest to demonstrate that when he says, "You've been a good friend" and he hopes they meet again, he's also *truly* being honest about that too, and admitting he was never using him in some long game as a pawn or tool.
What Garak does in this scene isn't romanticism. He recognizes and even argues that the Cardassia he knew was, in his own words, "guilty as charged", which is not something Damar would have ever admitted before the final season.
TNG may have had Sir Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner, but DS9 had the most seasoned theater actors. IMHO DS9 was fantastic because of all of the theater actors were able to project such emotion through the make up and technobabble. The cast have said the sets were built as one unit, so the Promenade was just a huge stage for them.
It's a pity they never did a follow-up series to DS9. I would have liked to see what happened to Garak. I get the feeling that he could have become a very prominent and benevolent leader.
Well, we'll never know. I like my version better though. It's a happier ending, and he also has been heavily influenced by the Federation by this point. So "Federation Optimism."
I only just (as of the end of last year) got into DS9 and I have no experience with any other Star Trek show. His "my exile is officially over, I've returned home" really got me in the proverbial nuts as it were. So many incredible actors like Andrew Robinson hidden from the "mainstream". I'm glad we got them at all
Somehow, when Garak talks about living in uncertain times, I'm left with the impression that he's speaking of an absolute certainty. He knows, just like Bashir does if he's being honest with himself, that this is the last time they'll see each other. But to actually say it... well, not only would it be an incredibly painful burden, but a violation of his character besides. And so he settles for the next best thing - a pleasant lie. But true to form, that lie is especially truthful.
It is sad because we know enough about Garak and the way he and Cardassians think that we know his mindset is just destined to torture itself. When he says "there's no doubt about it we are guilty", the Cardassian legal system. We also know the Cardassian Pride is extremely high. The sad thing about this scene is he knows it too. When he says 'but one can never say'. He does not know who he will be in the future, if he will be a broken person or even an alive person. One of the most emotionally tense scenes in all of television.
Andrew originally took this role because of financial problems but boy did Garak become one of the most memorable characters on Star Trek. It's also poignant, there's a photo of the entire cast and crew on the last day of filming, felt very much like high school; you spend all these years together but by the end it's time to say goodbye and go on your separate ways. Hope they can bring him back perhaps show a rebuilt Cardassia and how it's changed.
Yes. He originally didn't want to play a Cardassian because he was claustrophobic and the makeup made him feel very uncomfortable. But he soldiered on and pushed past his Phobia and created one of the most brilliantly acted characters in all of television history :). I am SO GLAD people appreciated Andrew Robinson's work!
I was always saddened by this, particularly the last 30s. I could just see Garak killing himself over the grief. The sudden veil of old Garak's half-statements "I'd like to think so, but we can never be certain" He had a complete emotional flip in his last lines with Bashir. Something he used to do when he was hiding something.
Michael Blanchard I'd like to think that Bashir was one of the very few people Garak would bare his feelings to. But Garak also hints that he really doesn't have the time, because he needs to interact with survivors on Cardassia and cannot look distraught.
+Michael Blanchard Interesting. Both times I watched this episode I thought he was alluding to the possibility that his position of power would be exposed and he would face reprisal from the surviving Cardassians, but he may have also been considering suicide (he didn't in the canon, but I see how you came to think that that was a likely future for him).
The Cardassians received literally the same outcome the Bajorans did. I'm not going to suggest that their entire people deserve to suffer, but it is worth pointing out that if the Bajorans could reclaim their culture, so too could the Cardassians.
Golkarian What’s unseen is often more powerful than what is seen. We can safely speculate that a New Cardassia formed with a more cooperative nature, shaped by Garak and a handful of others who create a better world with the help of the Federation. Maybe even a statue of Damar gets erected in the city. Those are my thoughts :)
The Bajor storyline in StarTrek: Online goes into detail of Cardassia's post-war outlook. I think they were even getting ready to add the Cardassians as a playable race/fleet with a recent patch. But I haven't been back in years.
They would become an occupied world and have a constitution written to become pacifists. The Klingons and Romulans, being equal partners of the occupation, would have it no other way to be convinced by the Federation not to add their planetary system to their own empires.
Chase after him Bashir! Convince him to go back with you. Get a condo with him beachside in Hawaii. Grow old together eating lunches together till you grow old. Adopt a golden retriever name Gus. Don't let Garak go!
One of the interesting aspects of the Cardassian culture, is that suspects are automatically declared guilty. Earlier, when Bashir told Julian that the Cardassian "Enigma Tales" had no mystery, because the people were all found to be guilty, Garak told him that the mystery involved figuring out who was guilty of what! In this scene Garak puts his culture on trial, declares it to be guilty and accepts that this distruction is a fitting punishment.
While I have little doubt Alexander Siddiq will still be around (that man has aged very well), I'm not as sure Andrew Robinson will still be up for the part. They best just do a new story now and appease our fan-based hunger.
Andrew Robinson is an excellent character actor. He brought so much to this series with veterans Brooks, Auberjonois and Shimerman (underrated brilliance!). DS9 had the character development almost on par with TNG.
I always felt apart from Picard, Riker and Data the remaining bridge crew got the short end of character development on TNG. The DS9 cast of characters were much more fleshed out and each had a chance to shine in numerous episodes.
Garek is like a German who helped the allies in WW2 after it's victory. Glad his people are rid of it's regime, but deeply sad at the destruction of his nation which produced almost unparalleled contribution to music, science, philosophy etc. Fantastic scene
The dominion war left so many possibilities in its wake. As evidenced by this scene, it would have been wonderful to see how the Alpha Quadrant would rebuild. But instead, we're going to get another self-indulgent prequel. Does anyone really expect much more of the new series than another Enterprise?
The new prequel series just seems like fan service of the worst kind. It takes place immediately after the Undiscovered Country, a period which has been referenced to death. Picking up where DS9 left off would boldly go where the series hasn't gone before. Prequel fan service seems self indulgent and unnecessary by comparison. To me at least.
Brian C I completely agree and after revisiting various DS9 clips on here I found myself marveling all over again at just how much I loved this show. The station setting allowed for so much character development and serialized story telling that its successors have felt like a step backwards in many regards. Granted everyone has their own personal tastes and I respect that, but the thought of what would happen next after the war was won just seems like such fertile ground for more of this type of story telling. How would the cardassian people cope? How would the other races respond to them, having wrought so much ruin upon them all and yet at the same time being the decisive factor that turned the tide of the war? Would the alliance between the proud Klingons and duplicitous Romulans last? What would relationships be with the Federation now as they spear headed the war? So many possibilities, but all out the window. I suppose Abram's films didn't help the cause as they introduced casual audiences to a totally different Star Trek both in canon and in style. To me DS9 was the pinnacle of Star Trek. Sure it had its flaws but damn it worked and worked amazingly
The two worst things that can happen are not getting what you've always wanted, and getting it. Garak wanted his exile to end, and return to Cardassia. He received what he wanted, and what it cost him was Cardassia.
DS9 really set the stage perfectly for a new Star Trek. The galaxy had just suffered a horrific war, a new show could have been about the Federation rebuilding, trying to maintain the alliances, and going back to exploration. It would have been like earth after World War 3. A new show could have focused on returning to Star Trek's vision of a better future. The other races might finally see that the Federation's ideas about peace and friendship aren't so bad if it can help them avoid another galactic war.
Casualties of the Dominion War The final death tolls in the war were: One million Starfleet officers and enlisted personnel; 90 million Federation citizens on occupied member worlds; 200,000 Klingon warriors, with nearly as many Romulans; 900 million Cardassians, military and civilian; Breen losses are unknown.
@@chrishubbard64 I decided in episode two that I would have gone AWOL and made my own way home. Janeway was simply to pushy and cavalier with the lives of her crew to be trusted as a C.O.
Voyager's ending was rushed. There was no exploration, no little epilogue after they got home. They got home, and then it was just "Set a course......for home!" and then a small fleet escorting Voyager to Earth. Even some of the actors have said by the end, the production staff just wanted it done and finished to move on to other things.
one thing ppl miss, is bashir's enhanced intellect. every wince, every pause, you know in his mind, he is ratcheting the probable casualty count higher...and higher. they had won! but its hard to be merry against such a staggering loss of life, especially with garak's stark analysis of it. im betting the final total to be upwards of 3 billion. thats what has bashir so dumbfounded. he projected such numbers with his enhanced friends, but to actually see them...
his friends suggested worse. What's more the Think Tank didn't figure that the Cardassians would bear the brunt of the casualties owing to the Founder's genocide. 7 million already died before Damar launched his rebellion, and Ross said they'd lose one third of their fleet just getting onto the surface of Cardassia Prime. the Tank also did not regard the defection of the Cardassians in space, which probably saved a lot of lives. Kickass moves like the Monac shipyards attack by the Rotaran and the Bajoran Wormhole being mined also helped.
When waging war it is easy to see the enemy as a color on the map, a blob representing your adversary that needs to be wiped out. It's when you are up close and personal that you realize that war is so much more intimate than that. Every enemy casualty is a trigger pulled, a family broken, a life torn away from decades of experience and growth. DS9 gets alot of flak for being a war series, but the one thing it did better than its predecessors is show that war has its uses, and it most definitely has its cost.
"Some may say we've gotten just what we deserve." Me, i would say that. Your rivals, the federation, put itself in the line of fire and threatened war with one of it's most powerful contemporaries on your behalf, and you turned your back on them the moment it was most convenient, and only when the arrangement soured did you revolt. Not for the federation, not for the alpha quadrant, but because your allies didn't give you the absolute superiority that you were promised. Cardassia would have let the alpha quadrant burn for its own benefit, the federation had every right to return that favor.
The entire DS9 series was put on Pluto TV for free last month, but Garak's final scene was cut from the final episode for some reason. Wasn't happy about that.
Cardassia is post world war 2 Germany. As if Garak would have talked about Germany. We always had a rather depressing look at life, which we have shown in our art and poetry. We even invented the term “Weltschmerz“ (when the status of the world just hurts you mentally and physically). We had great thinkers and minds and we wasted them by the millions! We had great potential to be a true power of progress, peace and wonderful art and we wasted it for failed attempts of an own empire. For great power and hegemony. For the pointless thoughts of honour and dominance. We could have been the cultural capital of the whole western world. A country of inventers and philosophers. We could have elevated the whole world (literally, look at the tech! Rockets and so on). Why couldn't this be enough?
Garak's words regarding the history and culture of the Cardassians made me look at history in a different light. Germany, like Cardassia, has a rich and ancient culture, with many contributions made to the arts, science, literature and technology. I think of so many gifted minds and talent that your nation lost in those two world wars and it fills me with sadness.
It's kind of funny how the whole 'don't betray the Alpha Quadrant' mentality is like the SEC conference in sports. I think ds9 really wrapped up the Star Trek universe well. I haven't read any Star Trek books but this is how I see the future of Star Trek. In many ways the Dominion did that which the Federation never could have: bring the Romulans, Federation and Klingon powers together into an alliance. Granted it was a necessity and the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' was the idea at the time, but the bonds of war bind people together better than any treaty. A good example is the first Federation-Klingon alliance. While Romulus might never join the Federation they would still have a greater, more permanent respect for them. At any rate the Dominion War probably brought peace to the Quadrant for decades. All the military powers were spent, and of the two most aggressive and subversive factions (the Cardassians and Romulans) both the Tal'Shiar and the Obsidian Order were annihilated resulting in most of the hardliners who opposed the Federation getting killed. The Cardassians were almost brought to extinction from the Klingon invasion, then later the Federation-Klingon-Romulan alliance, and finally the genocide of the Dominion so they aren't going to pose a problem for a century or two. Heck their weak position may make them, eventually, join the Federation. The only power not entirely reduced was the 'mysterious' Breen. But they were driven back to their corner of space and still completely outnumbered after the Dominion was defeated. With their special energy weapons countered they could no longer have a guarantee of victory without heavy losses of their own so they probably returned to waiting patiently in the shadows hoping to be slowly but not entirely forgotten. So with the Gamma Quadrant's main power defeated, those other Gamma Quadrant powers would be cautious of the Alpha's. Also the Beta Quadrant, through the biased perspective of Romulus, would have heard of the Alpha's victories and been more respective of the Alpha powers but most especially of Romulus. But with Koval as head of the new Obsidian Order and collaberator with the Federation & Section 31 as a spy; there would be practically no move Romulus could make without the Federation's knowing. The only Quadrant not unaware of the changes would be the Delta Quadrant but they're to far away to be of concern anyway. Only the Borg would do something about that but Picard defeats their efforts in First Contact. Which turns the Federation's attention to anti-Borg tech that is developed by Starfleet later on and brought back in time by Admiral Janeway which probably got distributed to Starfleet early which only made the Federation even more powerful. Perhaps the Romulans could have been convinced to lay up on their restriction against cloaking tech for the Federation in the name of the Dominion's possible betrayal. So with the Federation's new armor and improved tactical upgrades from the Dominion War, Janeway's future armor & Seven of Nine's Delta Quadrant experiences and the likelihood that the Federation would develop cloaking anyway added to the intelligence network of Section 31 and other Federation sources: the Federation would become one of, if not the most powerful faction in three quadrants of the galaxy second only to the Borg.
spasjt The new attempt at a tv series would destroy all that if it were to be made cannon because in that series starring Tuvok, the federation was fractured and held apart by special anomalies.
+spasjt As I understood it, the Federation only exhausted the Dominion forces stationed in the Alpha Quadrant; the ships and troops stationed in the Gamma Quadrant couldn't pass through the wormhole because of the resident aliens there. Which means that, after Odo cured the other Founders, the Dominion is probably still intact in the Gamma Quadrant. Besides which, there are still plenty of non-allied races in the Alpha Quadrant, as seen in numerous episodes of TNG. The alliance with the Klingons would probably prosper under the leadership of Martok, but after the fiasco seen in Nemesis, the Romulans seem just as interested in waging war with the Federation as ever. The Dominion War brought all the major factions to the brink of ruin, and I wouldn't be surprised if their infrastructure struggled to meet the demands of the war torn populations. Hell, rebel movements similar to the Maquise would have a field day breaking away from the Federation yoke (even Insurrection references the Federation's diminished capacities after the war), and the Borg or any other significant military power from outside the Alpha Quadrant would probably steamroll their way to Romulus, Cardassia, Qo'nos and Earth with minimal resistance. I think the Dominion War was probably the single most devastating conflict in Federation history, and I wouldn't be surprised if any follow-up series addressed the long lasting ramifications.
DarkNova50 You make a good point. But it should be remembered that an entire Dominion invasion force was destroyed when the wormhole aliens stopped their passage through, and all their initial invasion forces surrendered at the end of ds9. Which still included many Jem'hadar and ships. So yes, the Dominion is still intact back in Gamma but not without losing serious resources of their own. And in spite of the Great Link being given Odo's anecdote, it still suffered seriously. And if there's anything that can limit or stall the Dominion's power it is the sudden real reminder that its Founders are not gods; which is exactly what the sickness demonstrated. So it's possible, but perhaps not extremely probable, that other Gamma Quadrant powers may have also risen up against the Dominion. While Nemesis does show remaining Romulan hatred for the Federation, there entire resolve was destroyed after that Romulan commander betrayed the plan and decided to help Picard kill Shinzon. And thus one enemy became a friend. "You've earned a friend in the Romulan empire today captain." That, coupled with the fact the entire Romulan senate was destroyed, means that not only does Romulus need to still recover from the Dominion War but now it's political government is in upheaval as well. As for the rebellious groups like the Maquise, they were either destroyed in the crossfire of the Dominion War or lost it members when everyone saw that the Federation was a lot friendlier than the Dominion. Sure there's other groups but on the whole none of them were nearly as tough or organized as the Maquise who drew all its members from former Federation colonies. Besides, the fact that entire systems were devastated by war does guarantee a peace for everyone to recuperate. All the major powers were reduced but not destroyed and they were more technologically advanced than ever. They are also still fully geared for war and would most likely remain so for a time to prevent those other smaller factions from taking advantage of their weakened state.
+spasjt I think there are arguments to be made for either interpretation. However, perhaps Garak sums up the aftermath of the Dominion War best: "We live in uncertain times."
Garak is my favorite character in all of Star Trek because he is so different in mentality and outlook from the other characters and from the tone of Star Trek in general.
After all those years of awesomeness with Garak, I actually was a bit disappointed with this being his final scene. Granted it was a good scene, but we don't really get as much closure as we got with the other characters. I would have at least liked to have seen Garak one more time to establish what his role might be in rebuilding Cardassia. Obviously I don't really see him as the new head of state, but perhaps the new government might ask him to serve as an advisor. Personally, I'd like to think he turned down any official position and simply chose to retire somewhere out of the way to live in peace, or so everyone thinks. In reality he spends his remaining life quietly watching Cardassia's rebirth and makes it his mission in life to protect it, once again having eyes and ears everywhere and when necessary, removing potential threats that could steer His people back down a dark path.
I think the same thing about Garak myself, I don't see him in the government because he worked his best in the background, where the true power is and where the corruption begins. What better place for Garak to be to help Cardassia.
At the same time though, I think giving Garak closure would have betrayed his character. He's always walked the line, existing in an eternal grey area. It only makes sense that his conclusion would be equally vague.
The best kind of redemption arc is one where they can never really be redeemed because their crimes are too great. The best they can do is try to better the world around them. Garak is one of those characters.
The writing in this show was awesome, especially the dialogue. Conversations like this... so real, so deep, so philosophical. It was sad to see Star Trek devolve into softcore porn and space wars after this.
I prefer the philosophical conversations like these so much more than the space battles. They can be cool, like I love the battles at the end of DS9 but they become too much sometimes.
Bashir and Garak had a really awesome friendship. I think Garak is the most intriguing and therefore my favorite of all the Star Trek characters (and I have seen all of every series). I always wished there were more episodes about Garak. Even now, I'd love for there to be some sort of spinoff show all about Garak's adventures.
The first and last casualty of war is a nation's culture. In looking at the history of the world, how many cultures no longer exist because of war and conflict? Lost to the mortal mind and only existing as myths, stories, ruins and conjecture. Troy is one example. The Anasazi is another. With the Anasazi, we don't really have a clue what happened. Garak moaning the loss of the culture he knew and grew up with shows just how damaging the Dominion war was, not just on Cardassia, but the Alpha quadrant as a whole. The Duke of Wellington said, "Next to a battle lost, the saddest thing is a battle won." Garak helped win the war but lost everything that made Cardassia home.
I know there are several books out there showing Garak to be one of the leaders of the new Cardassia, but I always head cannoned that he never took public power, but was always around the whomever the new leaders were to help keep them honest. And if not, there is always room in his garden for some new flowers...
Cardassia thought the Dominion would be an ally but from the Founders perspective Cardassia was nothing more than a conquest they achieved through diplomacy rather than force.
Cardassia is a nation that, according to the lore, has largely been barely holding on, struggling to keep ahead of potential food and resource shortages that might otherwise destroy it, using conquest and exploration to gain resources. With the damage done by the Dominion War, that struggle would be far harder. Even if the new Cardassian government doesn't collapse, it will be a long, long time before they become a force in the Alpha Quadrant... if they ever do again.
This reminds me of what Germans must have felt like in 1945 after their country unconditionally surrendered. Most of Germany's cities were bombed out ruins, there was no water, sewage, electric or gas. No supply chain. Its industry was completely gone. The allies occupied Germany and many Germans only ate because of allied aid. What a terrible state to be in.
zoidberg444 If you ever want to see a theatrical presentation of it. The last chunk of the film "Downfall" (der untergang) shows exactly what the people of Germany were feeling. Those close to the Nazi party felt like the entire world was coming to an end. Many many many suicides, and the average German citizens were lost and confused. Russian soldiers were particularly brutal with the women as revenge.
+Milad Chow I still remember when I was in school (I live in Austria) and a teacher brought her mother who was 15 at the time the russians were in control. Under tears she told us how every day 3-5 russians would come to their house, drag her, her sister and her mother in the bedroom and have their way with them. Her sister even committed suicide because of it and they were already mourning over the loss of their father in the war. So go to Germany or Austria, find a retirement home with people who lived under the russians at that time and tell them how well deserved it was. After that find a history book and bash it against your head until you maybe get some sense, you insensitive prick. Russians were just as horrible as the Nazis were and none of the common folk deserved what has been done to them by them. To say that people deserved that treatment just for living in a country that did horrible things is just stupid beyond belief.
+zoidberg444 "This reminds me of what Germans must have felt like in 1945 after their country unconditionally surrendered." I doubt that many of them had concerns about the long therm future of their country or what would happen to its art and culture. Most of them were probably just glad the war was finally over(with them surviving) and thought about where they would get food and shelter. Concerns about such idealistic things were a luxury most of them didn´t have at that time.
+kan Chowdhury The populations complicity in the atrocities ordered by the Nazi party and the German high command was not in dispute. We waged a total war on Germany, which didn't end at militarily defeating Germany and occupying it. We completely rehabilitated their society, instilled new cultural values and realigned Germany's economy and trade patterns. It was a project that took more than a generation.
Garak idealized Cardassian culture, in his mind there was no other above it. This scene is devastating to him seeing what he dreamed of going back to wiped out without any remorse from the Dominion. It was one of the few times you see the real Garak in the show, what he truly believed. His character was just awesome. It will never happen and I think Andrew Robinson is too old now but if they ever did that Section 31 show, he needs to be in it...
One of the best scenes. I was slightly worried that Garak's response that one could never say they would meet again might have suggested Implied a self "unaliving" that Bashir completely missed, but I assume that implication was unintentional.
What Garak said about the Cardassians responsibility for what has happened to them is what German exiles said in 1945 about the German responsibility for Hitler and the Second World War.
I just noticed a little detail. The first time they met, Garak touched Bashir in a suggestive manner. They end their relationship with Garak fingering his shoulder and letting go. Both start and stop with a hand on the shoulder.
Garak was one of the best characters in all of star trek or science fiction for that matter. Hell DS9 was littered with great performances. Maybe Garak can make an appearance in picard.
When the series run the first time, I always thought that the writers had the germans in mind when they created the Cardassians. The occupation of Bajor is something that's close to Poland in WW2 and the holocaust and the way their military was set was also something that made me believe, that germans were the inspiration. And this last scene proofed it to me. The horror of witnessing that the own culture isn't just guilty as charged, no... so much is lost and now everyone will hate them. Wow.
The analogy between the Cardassians and the NAZIs are made pretty strongly throughout the show. Their system of government, their superiority complex and the militarism, but also the way things ended for them. Much like how Germany was left in ruins, so too was Cardassia.
Like Cardassia, Germany too, has a rich and ancient history and culture. This is the country that gave us the Protestant Reformation, moveable type, and some of the world's finest composers of classical music and literature, as well as advances in science and technology. Part of that history, too, was one of arrogant aggression, clearly expressed through two world wars and the thankfully brief Nazi era.
I always felt like we were supposed to think that garak maaaaaybe was going to go kill himself after this scene. Dark even by DS9 standards I know, but it seems like his abrupt change of attitude was him making that decision.
I thought he was merely being fatalistic. Suicide makes sense, but I think he equally expected to be the target of some Bajoran/Klingon retaliation effort.
This is the only scene in the entire run of DS9 where Garak is completely truthful with no guile whatsoever. Andrew Robinson portrayed him magnificently.
The times for games is over. The government who exiled him no longer exists. The many Cardassians whom who wanted him dead or he wanted dead are effectively all dead. He's a chess player with no one left. This is indeed perhaps the one time he doesn't spin one of his fictions with Bashir.
@@XX-sp3tt most of the people who were guilty for his exile had already been killed or died by the time of the dominion invasion with Tain and Dukat being the last two. No this is grief realizing he is home but it’s all gone now the Cardassia he knew and loved was now gone the family home he wanted to retire to burned down. Then realizing Cardassians did it to themselves.
You forgot this one:
Garak:
I'll go along on your fool's errand, but I want one thing to be perfectly clear: I have no intention of sacrificing my life to save yours. If it looks like we're in danger of being captured, if there's any sign of trouble at all, you're on your own!
Commander Sisko:
Mr. Garak, I believe that's the first completely honest thing you've ever said to me.
@@XX-sp3ttoh hel be bak' hel plays a friendly game with bashir in the future
But indeed, probably none where the stakes were as high as on old cardassia
It’s funny because if you were going to make this show today, it’s quite possible Garak would emerge as the dark horse protagonist, kind of like Better Call Saul. He was in some ways a decade or so ahead of his time.
He was in only 37 episodes out of 173, and he is one of most liked characters on DS9. Says a lot about the writing and the acting for the character.
The makers of "Star Trek" made a big mistake by not creating a follow-up series to "Deep Space Nine" with Garak as a third or fourth billed character.
Every episode with him was a breath of fresh air. I got a pleasant surprise when he would appear. I do believe originally he wasn't intented to appear in that many episodes either, but fans loved him immediatly and so they kept writing him in.
SolusBatty Yes, correct on every count. He was magnificent
All the Cardassians were good actually, Garak, Dukat, Demar and especially the single performance by Harris Yulin as Gul Darhe'el/Aamin Marritza. The episode Duet was possibly one of the most memorable in the series because of his performance
@@GeneralG1810 Agreed. Tain was good also!
Look at the face of Bashir at the end, he is at the brink of crying. He basicly just lost a good friend and realises that even if they meet again, it will never be the same. Compare the Bashir we have here with the smug unsufferable young doctor we had at the beginning of the series. I think pairing him up with Garak was the best idea the Writhers of DS9 ever had. And they had many great ideas.
+A Meier i think this is what makes DS9 such a cool series
+A Meier I do believe you mean "Garak was the best idea the writers of DS9 ever had."
equenoxe86 Well "Kira feels not that close to him" is rather funny, given that the actorres baby was his :P
I kind liked Bashir as enthusiastic. I didn't call it smug or 'insufferable'.
equenoxe86 Which makes that last part ironic, they were married irl, haha. It was his baby she was pregnant with earlier.
It is interesting to note Garak's assessment of the Cardassian's guilt. It was established in the series that in the Cardassian justice system, the accused is always found guilty - no exceptions. And Garak explained that in their mystery novels, while everyone is guilty, the mystery is to find out who is guilty of what. Here, in their last scene, Garak follows this Cardassian thinking pattern and concludes that his entire race is "guilty as charged". One of the great things about DS9 was continuity in their characters personality.
Nice spot, i hadn't made that connection but it fits perfectly. It also ties in with Garak's patriotism and love for his people whilst never being blind to their (many) faults, esp after he was exiled
Garick was everything noble and tragic about a cardassian. I think part of it was him convincing himself they were guilty, so the tragedy wouldn't be so horrifically chaotic, and unjust. Cardassians have a definite feeling that their way of life creates a sense of justice. I feel like Cardassians convince themselves of the accused's guilt because the idea of the alternative, that there is injustice, and we can't fight it without allowing ourselves to be vulnerable, is just something they can't accept.
It also fits well with the episode "Duet." When Kira uncovers the ruse, Not Gal Darheel (phonetic spelling) says that all Cardassians have to be punished, that Cardassia must realize it's guilt. Guilt and punishment were recurring motifs in DS9.
Do you think he felt they deserved the terrible fate inflicted on them?
Claire Stark, Yes, because they defied the natural order in their arrogance. That's why they're guilty.
"Spare me your insufferable Federation optimism!"
Sometimes, looking to the bright side doesn't help. Sometimes you just gotta let a man mourn.
While true, i think the reason had more to do with the fact that being optimistic allows the possibility for huge disappointment. And when you’re a cardassian who betrays his own people for their own benefit overall despite knowing it will lead to their eventual oblivion by the tens of millions… the level of disappointment not just in your people, but in yourself, might be too much to bear.
Agreed. Sometimes, the best course of action is to just shut the fuck up and be there for the person.
Garak is always at his most unnerving when the mask drops.
It's like The Joker without the giggling.
But then, aside from a very few scenes, you can't always be sure that the mask really has dropped - it was one of the things I found most compelling, if sometimes frustrating
@@thegreenmanofnorwich you can at least sees hes in conflicted agony. His people have been broken, they deserve it and its killing him.
Because that's when you realize that he puts on the mask for _our_ benefit.
It's just another mask... The man is a enigma.
The deep sincerity in Garak’s voice when he tells Bashir “You’ve been such a good friend” gets me every goddamn time
The way Siddig plays this scene is really interesting - he doesn't believe a word he's saying and you can hear his lack of conviction as he reflexively tries to offer these platitudes, because he can't think of anything else to do. Garak can't help but laugh.
Odo and Quark, Garak and Bashir, Sisko and Dukat, this show did an amazing job of building relationships between people who were opposites of one another.
They really did a stellar job with that.
@Jesse Bogdonoff Not the brightest bulb in the box are you?
@Jesse Bogdonoff Well said indeed. They understood the need for that dichotomy. The original series really had that with McCoy and Spock and all of their bantering back and forth. TNG didn't have that as much, despite having a stellar cast, maybe Picard and Riker. But DS9 understood the need for that character dichotomy and they played it to the hilt with their entire cast. Odo and Quark, Kira and Quark, Odo and Kira, Kira and Dax, Dax and Sisko, Sisko and O'Brien, Sisko and the Kai even. Those dichotomies, which were never 100% good and evil, made the show so complex and gave us a lot to think about. That's why it worked so well. They didn't beat you over the head, they made you think things over. My greatest regret in DS9 is that we honestly didn't get to see Garak and Dukat spend more time together.
@Jesse Bogdonoff I wholeheartedly agree. It is a credit to the writers how the relationships between these characters were developed as the series progressed. They felt natural and believable and none were forced.
Don’t forget Odo and Garak.
Garak was Star Trek's finest character: The flawed patriot. You could never understand him unless you realized that at the bottom of all of his fabrications, he really loved Cardassia. He might comfort you one day, and shoot you the next. If he did, that's why.
He truly loved his people, but I believe that Garak didn't believe in the Cardassian state, even before the Dominion War.
@@pittland44 When I listen to Garak talk about his people, I think about Germany at the end of WWII. I imagine a German speaking the same way looking on the devastated cities and the millions of his people dead around him.
@@evertonporter7887 That's a good analysis.
@@pittland44 i think he realised that over the course of the series. he started thinking he had to give his life for the state, and ended up fighting against it to save his people and culture
@@evertonporter7887 That was very much the point. It was also (very obviously) a parallel for Cardassia and Bajor, I imagine there was a conversation like this in every Bajoran resistance cell after the Cardassian occupation ended.
"Our literature was second to none"
That must've taken heroic self restraint for Bashir not to interject and point out how crappy and formulaic Cardassian writing was.
From a human perspective sure but to a Cardassian, the man said it himself. :)
@Hakageryuu uhuh, and what do recipes and computer programs have to do with literature? Complete predictability might be useful in some contexts, but that doesn't mean that literature is one of them.
It's a poor analogy, which does nothing to explain why Cardassian literature, which regurgitates and recycles state propaganda in predictable formats, is anything other than bad.
the never-ending sacrifice just the description made my eyes glaze over
Only from a human perspective though. Bashir was looking at their crime thrillers like a "whodunit". But Cardassian crime thrillers were more of a "how&whydunit"
I mean, Columbo was never a whodunnit but a howdhecatchem and was great anyway.
Garak was an amazing character, and the Garak/Bashir "friendship" was a compelling literary achievement.
(The acting on DS9 was second to none.)
I approve of this message
It really was the absolute best....
mark merzweiler it was. Fitting that Garak never let on that he was in love.
What? In love with who?
@@taylormorgan6441 the actor played him as Queer. It was never written in however. It's up for interpetation
I think he shows here that despite his exasperation with what he considers his naivety, Garak genuinely liked Bashir, he enjoyed his company and enjoyed indulging his love of mystery and intrigue.
Andrew Robinson even came back and authored " A Stitch In Time", which take a look at the post - Dominion War Cardassia landscape from Garak's perspective and goes into a lot of details about his past.
Are they any hits for a romantic relationship between Garak and Julian in the book?
@@sirusfan8890 I don't think so.
@@shawnlion8181 2000 release date on the book so this would be long before the cast and crew started to actively trying to retcon their own work in interviews due to the shifting sands of politics drifting them out beyond the generally welcoming nature of most trek fans.
IMMentat Eh?
That book was awesome! So much rich details and history of cardassia. He promised a follow up book but it never materialized!
Bashir probably knew that he and Garak would never meet again, and he couldn't bear to look as his friend left, knowing he was leaving his life forever.
To be honest, it hurts a bit seeing Garak finally shed all of that weight he had been carrying during DS9's whole run. Sadly, here, he's basically alone, as in, not having a lot of people who have anything in common with him to talk to. Father-dead, mother-dead, mass of Cardassians-dead. For him, his own hell may have just begun when the Dominion War ended. It'd probably take about 15 years for him to find his own inner peace again. I could never imagine having to go through what he did. o.o
And he no longer has his cranial implant to dull the pain
Senior Citizens feel similar, especially Centennials. Outliving their families, their friends, all familiarity no more. Add in the ongoing pain, it's no wonder looking forward to death becomes appealing & who can blame such?
Garek no doubt wishes he could be dead too.
One of the most complicated yet beautiful relationships in the entire Star Trek canon.
I love how vague his send off was. He always lived in secret and shadow, and he leaves the same way. In fact, there’s a good chance no one ever heard from Garak after this. These are uncertain times.
I like to think him and Garak are splitting a pizza and laughing together at some Cardassian restaurant a few years after the war.
Cardassian pizza is second to none.
@@theevilascotcompany9255 Slathered in yamok sauce, naturally.
Wouldn't that be nice. It was a rare, very real friendship, though they knew each others faults. 😊
"The eternal optimist. How sad!"
If you're looking for a happy ending for Garak and Bashir, try searching for "little achievements" on CZcams. It's a fanfiction Siddig and Robinson (the original actors who played Julian and Garak) interpreted, set I think twenty years from the end of the series. It's really touching and sweet ❤️
What an ACTOR! This scene shows us something we've never seen before - Garak momentarily taking off his mask. Then at 1:31 we suddenly see him put it back on. Incredible performance!
I imagine that was a truly difficult scene for them both. As I imagine all of the 'last' scenes are for any actor. You're not just seeing them in character. You're seeing genuine friends who know they are saying goodbye. The way Andrew slides his hand down Alexander's shoulder. Truly one of the more emotional scenes in this episode.
Nana has said that she ruined many takes because she kept crying. It looks like Bashir is about to start crying too.
This is a masterful scene.
If I was playing opposite Andrew Robinson, I would've been getting chills.
He got a lot of talent from his famous father.
@@HerrEllsworth who was his father?
@@no-smoking I had believed Andrew was the son of the great Edward G. Robinson. He was not.
@@HerrEllsworth No. His father was a soldier in World War II and was killed when Robinson was three years old.
He may not have been in the main cast, but Garak is my favorite character on the show. I'm glad he became more prominent as the seasons progressed. The Cardassians could have easily been painted as 100% irredeemable bad guys, but DS9 did a good job of fleshing them out, and showing the good as well as the bad. All too often star trek and sci fi races in general are defined by just one trait that is exaggerated in order to contrast them with humans, but the Cardassians felt very fleshed out to me.
Well, one other reason Star Trek does the "one character trait race" thing is that, most of the time, the encounter with a given race is a character study of the human race. And, if the race/culture is only in one episode, that usually works from a narrative point of view. But when a race is a recurring one (Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians) you can flesh them out more to give a more complete story.
Just as Avatar The Last Airbender did to the Fire Nation.
DS9 did an excellent job on the worldbuilding.
Not only the cardassian but the ferengi to. Ds9 did them justice
Wish we could have gotten a DS9 movie. I really miss this show.
i have always thought that any double episode like the first one was the movie, anything else would have diluted the profound message of the futility of wars of conquest.
1:31-1:36 that is the REAL Elim Garak... the transfixed haunted stare of a horrified man who finally let it all sink in. His Cardassia is gone. There is no bloodlust in those eyes, no psychotic rage building, no denial of guilt, no promises of revenge... just absolute horror for 800 million dead. Garak will suffer, his worst suffering has yet to begin, but he will survive. Plain simple Garak has always been exceptional.
More than that... Garak is *rarely* honest, and when he is, it is a very big deal. When he let Dr. Bashir stay in the cell when Elim died, he was letting him hear everything as a demonstration of his complete trust. Here, I think he's also being honest to demonstrate that when he says, "You've been a good friend" and he hopes they meet again, he's also *truly* being honest about that too, and admitting he was never using him in some long game as a pawn or tool.
Man, what an amazing actor. Too few people today realize how lucky we were to have Andrew Robinson on that cast. Phenomenal.
Garak: "Damar always had a certain...romanticism...about the past..."
Garak, later on:
What Garak does in this scene isn't romanticism. He recognizes and even argues that the Cardassia he knew was, in his own words, "guilty as charged", which is not something Damar would have ever admitted before the final season.
Man, you can see the pain in his eyes and on his face. Andrew Robinson is such a amazing actor. I wish he was in more stuff.
The caliber of acting we had in that show, man...
TNG may have had Sir Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner, but DS9 had the most seasoned theater actors. IMHO DS9 was fantastic because of all of the theater actors were able to project such emotion through the make up and technobabble. The cast have said the sets were built as one unit, so the Promenade was just a huge stage for them.
Remember when Star Trek had compelling characters, played by competent actors?
Poor Julian.
He loses both Garak and Miles (from his life).
And he's still on DS9.
At least he has Ezri.
It's a pity they never did a follow-up series to DS9. I would have liked to see what happened to Garak. I get the feeling that he could have become a very prominent and benevolent leader.
I always got the vibe that he killed himself.
This scene seems to imply that he has nothing left.
Well, we'll never know. I like my version better though. It's a happier ending, and he also has been heavily influenced by the Federation by this point. So "Federation Optimism."
Yeah, I get the feeling that probably a random Klingon came up to him one day and stabbed him to death or he killed himself.
in the books, he continues on to become the leader of the Cardassian people, their castellan
He would have been a great, weird and effective mix of benevolence and pragmatism.
I never felt sadder at the end of a series than I did with this one. Well done gentlemen and ladies!
I loved Garak and Bashir's lunches too, Garak would give him just enough to let him jump to conclusions but without really revealing anything
I only just (as of the end of last year) got into DS9 and I have no experience with any other Star Trek show. His "my exile is officially over, I've returned home" really got me in the proverbial nuts as it were. So many incredible actors like Andrew Robinson hidden from the "mainstream". I'm glad we got them at all
Somehow, when Garak talks about living in uncertain times, I'm left with the impression that he's speaking of an absolute certainty. He knows, just like Bashir does if he's being honest with himself, that this is the last time they'll see each other. But to actually say it... well, not only would it be an incredibly painful burden, but a violation of his character besides. And so he settles for the next best thing - a pleasant lie. But true to form, that lie is especially truthful.
It is sad because we know enough about Garak and the way he and Cardassians think that we know his mindset is just destined to torture itself. When he says "there's no doubt about it we are guilty", the Cardassian legal system. We also know the Cardassian Pride is extremely high.
The sad thing about this scene is he knows it too. When he says 'but one can never say'. He does not know who he will be in the future, if he will be a broken person or even an alive person.
One of the most emotionally tense scenes in all of television.
Andrew originally took this role because of financial problems but boy did Garak become one of the most memorable characters on Star Trek. It's also poignant, there's a photo of the entire cast and crew on the last day of filming, felt very much like high school; you spend all these years together but by the end it's time to say goodbye and go on your separate ways. Hope they can bring him back perhaps show a rebuilt Cardassia and how it's changed.
Yes. He originally didn't want to play a Cardassian because he was claustrophobic and the makeup made him feel very uncomfortable. But he soldiered on and pushed past his Phobia and created one of the most brilliantly acted characters in all of television history :). I am SO GLAD people appreciated Andrew Robinson's work!
I was always saddened by this, particularly the last 30s. I could just see Garak killing himself over the grief. The sudden veil of old Garak's half-statements "I'd like to think so, but we can never be certain"
He had a complete emotional flip in his last lines with Bashir. Something he used to do when he was hiding something.
Michael Blanchard nah, Garak was busy later on. He becomes the leader of Detapa Council on Cardassia
Michael Blanchard I'd like to think that Bashir was one of the very few people Garak would bare his feelings to. But Garak also hints that he really doesn't have the time, because he needs to interact with survivors on Cardassia and cannot look distraught.
+PetersaberHD and in the destiny trilogy became the federation- cardassia liaison officer
LIAM DILLON-GRAY Bashir or Garak?
+Michael Blanchard Interesting. Both times I watched this episode I thought he was alluding to the possibility that his position of power would be exposed and he would face reprisal from the surviving Cardassians, but he may have also been considering suicide (he didn't in the canon, but I see how you came to think that that was a likely future for him).
The Cardassians received literally the same outcome the Bajorans did. I'm not going to suggest that their entire people deserve to suffer, but it is worth pointing out that if the Bajorans could reclaim their culture, so too could the Cardassians.
The irony is not lost on us, trust me.
This speech by garak is awesome.
Andrew Robinson played this role brilliantly
It's a bit disappointing that a Trek couldn't go past this point of time so we could see what happens to Cardassia
Golkarian What’s unseen is often more powerful than what is seen. We can safely speculate that a New Cardassia formed with a more cooperative nature, shaped by Garak and a handful of others who create a better world with the help of the Federation. Maybe even a statue of Damar gets erected in the city.
Those are my thoughts :)
they got a reality tv show
The Bajor storyline in StarTrek: Online goes into detail of Cardassia's post-war outlook. I think they were even getting ready to add the Cardassians as a playable race/fleet with a recent patch. But I haven't been back in years.
They would become an occupied world and have a constitution written to become pacifists. The Klingons and Romulans, being equal partners of the occupation, would have it no other way to be convinced by the Federation not to add their planetary system to their own empires.
Instead we got the terrible Star Trek Picard storyline.
Chase after him Bashir! Convince him to go back with you. Get a condo with him beachside in Hawaii. Grow old together eating lunches together till you grow old. Adopt a golden retriever name Gus. Don't let Garak go!
This!!
One of the interesting aspects of the Cardassian culture, is that suspects are automatically declared guilty. Earlier, when Bashir told Julian that the Cardassian "Enigma Tales" had no mystery, because the people were all found to be guilty, Garak told him that the mystery involved figuring out who was guilty of what!
In this scene Garak puts his culture on trial, declares it to be guilty and accepts that this distruction is a fitting punishment.
Garak's stoicism in the face of near-total obliteration is an inspiration to me.
In my wildest dreams of what I hoped to get for the 50th Anniversary celebrations was a new Bashir and Garak story
While I have little doubt Alexander Siddiq will still be around (that man has aged very well), I'm not as sure Andrew Robinson will still be up for the part.
They best just do a new story now and appease our fan-based hunger.
Lord Bloodraven shall we put old Andy in a box and out of misery then?
Look up _Alone Together_ on the _Sid City_ channel. _Sid_ as in... Siddig!
@@alphamikeomega5728 Cheers dude. I watched this earlier this year and it was exactly what I was hoping for!
I *hate* that after the all of everything, Garak could never come "straight" even with Julian. Though in a way, it's also perfect.
Andrew Robinson is an excellent character actor. He brought so much to this series with veterans Brooks, Auberjonois and Shimerman (underrated brilliance!). DS9 had the character development almost on par with TNG.
DS9 had better character development than TNG!
I always felt apart from Picard, Riker and Data the remaining bridge crew got the short end of character development on TNG. The DS9 cast of characters were much more fleshed out and each had a chance to shine in numerous episodes.
Dammit Julian. You should have stayed and helped Garak rebuild Cardassia
Hell, get the mutants out of the institute to help out.
This☝
Garak really was a GREAT character!
The quality of actors in DS9 was just so damn high
Garek is like a German who helped the allies in WW2 after it's victory. Glad his people are rid of it's regime, but deeply sad at the destruction of his nation which produced almost unparalleled contribution to music, science, philosophy etc.
Fantastic scene
You really don't know much, do you?
@@timyumichuck9262 weird response.
If there was ever only one time someone needed a hug...
Garek was the best character on DS9
Garak
The dominion war left so many possibilities in its wake. As evidenced by this scene, it would have been wonderful to see how the Alpha Quadrant would rebuild.
But instead, we're going to get another self-indulgent prequel. Does anyone really expect much more of the new series than another Enterprise?
I understand the prequel criticism, but what do you mean by self indulgent?
The new prequel series just seems like fan service of the worst kind. It takes place immediately after the Undiscovered Country, a period which has been referenced to death.
Picking up where DS9 left off would boldly go where the series hasn't gone before. Prequel fan service seems self indulgent and unnecessary by comparison.
To me at least.
I believe Discovery is set about a decade before TOS.
Oh god really? That makes it even worse!
Brian C I completely agree and after revisiting various DS9 clips on here I found myself marveling all over again at just how much I loved this show. The station setting allowed for so much character development and serialized story telling that its successors have felt like a step backwards in many regards. Granted everyone has their own personal tastes and I respect that, but the thought of what would happen next after the war was won just seems like such fertile ground for more of this type of story telling.
How would the cardassian people cope? How would the other races respond to them, having wrought so much ruin upon them all and yet at the same time being the decisive factor that turned the tide of the war? Would the alliance between the proud Klingons and duplicitous Romulans last? What would relationships be with the Federation now as they spear headed the war? So many possibilities, but all out the window. I suppose Abram's films didn't help the cause as they introduced casual audiences to a totally different Star Trek both in canon and in style. To me DS9 was the pinnacle of Star Trek. Sure it had its flaws but damn it worked and worked amazingly
The acting choices in this scene from moment to moment, just exquisite acting by both gentlemen.
Great actors Great writing
Powerful scene. The characters are no longer the same when they are 1st introduced on the series.
The two worst things that can happen are not getting what you've always wanted, and getting it. Garak wanted his exile to end, and return to Cardassia. He received what he wanted, and what it cost him was Cardassia.
"Uncertain times." I don't know why, but those words are most comforting coming from him.
DS9 really set the stage perfectly for a new Star Trek. The galaxy had just suffered a horrific war, a new show could have been about the Federation rebuilding, trying to maintain the alliances, and going back to exploration. It would have been like earth after World War 3. A new show could have focused on returning to Star Trek's vision of a better future. The other races might finally see that the Federation's ideas about peace and friendship aren't so bad if it can help them avoid another galactic war.
Yes but what about lens flares?
We live in uncertain times. But we also live in hope, for both Star Trek, and for all humanity.
Casualties of the Dominion War
The final death tolls in the war were:
One million Starfleet officers and enlisted personnel;
90 million Federation citizens on occupied member worlds;
200,000 Klingon warriors, with nearly as many Romulans;
900 million Cardassians, military and civilian;
Breen losses are unknown.
The writing on this show was just sublime. It made Voyager look ridiculous next to it.
Too be fair, voyager looked ridiculous next to itself a lot of the time. It was a ridiculous series even if it did have a number of good points. :p
@@chrishubbard64 I decided in episode two that I would have gone AWOL and made my own way home. Janeway was simply to pushy and cavalier with the lives of her crew to be trusted as a C.O.
Voyager's ending was rushed. There was no exploration, no little epilogue after they got home. They got home, and then it was just "Set a course......for home!" and then a small fleet escorting Voyager to Earth. Even some of the actors have said by the end, the production staff just wanted it done and finished to move on to other things.
@@bobpage6597 i hated the ending
He wanted to play the part of Odo. Im glad that didnt work out.
The man who played Garek is a great actor.
When you can connect with so many viewers and convey so much under all that make up then you know for sure he’s a great actor.
one thing ppl miss, is bashir's enhanced intellect. every wince, every pause, you know in his mind, he is ratcheting the probable casualty count higher...and higher. they had won! but its hard to be merry against such a staggering loss of life, especially with garak's stark analysis of it. im betting the final total to be upwards of 3 billion. thats what has bashir so dumbfounded. he projected such numbers with his enhanced friends, but to actually see them...
his friends suggested worse. What's more the Think Tank didn't figure that the Cardassians would bear the brunt of the casualties owing to the Founder's genocide. 7 million already died before Damar launched his rebellion, and Ross said they'd lose one third of their fleet just getting onto the surface of Cardassia Prime.
the Tank also did not regard the defection of the Cardassians in space, which probably saved a lot of lives. Kickass moves like the Monac shipyards attack by the Rotaran and the Bajoran Wormhole being mined also helped.
When waging war it is easy to see the enemy as a color on the map, a blob representing your adversary that needs to be wiped out.
It's when you are up close and personal that you realize that war is so much more intimate than that. Every enemy casualty is a trigger pulled, a family broken, a life torn away from decades of experience and growth.
DS9 gets alot of flak for being a war series, but the one thing it did better than its predecessors is show that war has its uses, and it most definitely has its cost.
"Some may say we've gotten just what we deserve."
Me, i would say that. Your rivals, the federation, put itself in the line of fire and threatened war with one of it's most powerful contemporaries on your behalf, and you turned your back on them the moment it was most convenient, and only when the arrangement soured did you revolt. Not for the federation, not for the alpha quadrant, but because your allies didn't give you the absolute superiority that you were promised.
Cardassia would have let the alpha quadrant burn for its own benefit, the federation had every right to return that favor.
The entire DS9 series was put on Pluto TV for free last month, but Garak's final scene was cut from the final episode for some reason. Wasn't happy about that.
Cardassia is post world war 2 Germany. As if Garak would have talked about Germany. We always had a rather depressing look at life, which we have shown in our art and poetry. We even invented the term “Weltschmerz“ (when the status of the world just hurts you mentally and physically). We had great thinkers and minds and we wasted them by the millions! We had great potential to be a true power of progress, peace and wonderful art and we wasted it for failed attempts of an own empire. For great power and hegemony. For the pointless thoughts of honour and dominance. We could have been the cultural capital of the whole western world. A country of inventers and philosophers. We could have elevated the whole world (literally, look at the tech! Rockets and so on). Why couldn't this be enough?
Garak's words regarding the history and culture of the Cardassians made me look at history in a different light. Germany, like Cardassia, has a rich and ancient culture, with many contributions made to the arts, science, literature and technology. I think of so many gifted minds and talent that your nation lost in those two world wars and it fills me with sadness.
It's kind of funny how the whole 'don't betray the Alpha Quadrant' mentality is like the SEC conference in sports.
I think ds9 really wrapped up the Star Trek universe well. I haven't read any Star Trek books but this is how I see the future of Star Trek.
In many ways the Dominion did that which the Federation never could have: bring the Romulans, Federation and Klingon powers together into an alliance. Granted it was a necessity and the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' was the idea at the time, but the bonds of war bind people together better than any treaty. A good example is the first Federation-Klingon alliance. While Romulus might never join the Federation they would still have a greater, more permanent respect for them.
At any rate the Dominion War probably brought peace to the Quadrant for decades. All the military powers were spent, and of the two most aggressive and subversive factions (the Cardassians and Romulans) both the Tal'Shiar and the Obsidian Order were annihilated resulting in most of the hardliners who opposed the Federation getting killed. The Cardassians were almost brought to extinction from the Klingon invasion, then later the Federation-Klingon-Romulan alliance, and finally the genocide of the Dominion so they aren't going to pose a problem for a century or two. Heck their weak position may make them, eventually, join the Federation.
The only power not entirely reduced was the 'mysterious' Breen. But they were driven back to their corner of space and still completely outnumbered after the Dominion was defeated. With their special energy weapons countered they could no longer have a guarantee of victory without heavy losses of their own so they probably returned to waiting patiently in the shadows hoping to be slowly but not entirely forgotten.
So with the Gamma Quadrant's main power defeated, those other Gamma Quadrant powers would be cautious of the Alpha's. Also the Beta Quadrant, through the biased perspective of Romulus, would have heard of the Alpha's victories and been more respective of the Alpha powers but most especially of Romulus. But with Koval as head of the new Obsidian Order and collaberator with the Federation & Section 31 as a spy; there would be practically no move Romulus could make without the Federation's knowing.
The only Quadrant not unaware of the changes would be the Delta Quadrant but they're to far away to be of concern anyway. Only the Borg would do something about that but Picard defeats their efforts in First Contact. Which turns the Federation's attention to anti-Borg tech that is developed by Starfleet later on and brought back in time by Admiral Janeway which probably got distributed to Starfleet early which only made the Federation even more powerful. Perhaps the Romulans could have been convinced to lay up on their restriction against cloaking tech for the Federation in the name of the Dominion's possible betrayal.
So with the Federation's new armor and improved tactical upgrades from the Dominion War, Janeway's future armor & Seven of Nine's Delta Quadrant experiences and the likelihood that the Federation would develop cloaking anyway added to the intelligence network of Section 31 and other Federation sources: the Federation would become one of, if not the most powerful faction in three quadrants of the galaxy second only to the Borg.
spasjt The new attempt at a tv series would destroy all that if it were to be made cannon because in that series starring Tuvok, the federation was fractured and held apart by special anomalies.
V Guyver Ah yes, but you're assuming the evil TV executives will care :)
+spasjt As I understood it, the Federation only exhausted the Dominion forces stationed in the Alpha Quadrant; the ships and troops stationed in the Gamma Quadrant couldn't pass through the wormhole because of the resident aliens there. Which means that, after Odo cured the other Founders, the Dominion is probably still intact in the Gamma Quadrant.
Besides which, there are still plenty of non-allied races in the Alpha Quadrant, as seen in numerous episodes of TNG. The alliance with the Klingons would probably prosper under the leadership of Martok, but after the fiasco seen in Nemesis, the Romulans seem just as interested in waging war with the Federation as ever.
The Dominion War brought all the major factions to the brink of ruin, and I wouldn't be surprised if their infrastructure struggled to meet the demands of the war torn populations. Hell, rebel movements similar to the Maquise would have a field day breaking away from the Federation yoke (even Insurrection references the Federation's diminished capacities after the war), and the Borg or any other significant military power from outside the Alpha Quadrant would probably steamroll their way to Romulus, Cardassia, Qo'nos and Earth with minimal resistance.
I think the Dominion War was probably the single most devastating conflict in Federation history, and I wouldn't be surprised if any follow-up series addressed the long lasting ramifications.
DarkNova50
You make a good point.
But it should be remembered that an entire Dominion invasion force was destroyed when the wormhole aliens stopped their passage through, and all their initial invasion forces surrendered at the end of ds9. Which still included many Jem'hadar and ships.
So yes, the Dominion is still intact back in Gamma but not without losing serious resources of their own. And in spite of the Great Link being given Odo's anecdote, it still suffered seriously. And if there's anything that can limit or stall the Dominion's power it is the sudden real reminder that its Founders are not gods; which is exactly what the sickness demonstrated. So it's possible, but perhaps not extremely probable, that other Gamma Quadrant powers may have also risen up against the Dominion.
While Nemesis does show remaining Romulan hatred for the Federation, there entire resolve was destroyed after that Romulan commander betrayed the plan and decided to help Picard kill Shinzon. And thus one enemy became a friend. "You've earned a friend in the Romulan empire today captain."
That, coupled with the fact the entire Romulan senate was destroyed, means that not only does Romulus need to still recover from the Dominion War but now it's political government is in upheaval as well.
As for the rebellious groups like the Maquise, they were either destroyed in the crossfire of the Dominion War or lost it members when everyone saw that the Federation was a lot friendlier than the Dominion.
Sure there's other groups but on the whole none of them were nearly as tough or organized as the Maquise who drew all its members from former Federation colonies.
Besides, the fact that entire systems were devastated by war does guarantee a peace for everyone to recuperate. All the major powers were reduced but not destroyed and they were more technologically advanced than ever. They are also still fully geared for war and would most likely remain so for a time to prevent those other smaller factions from taking advantage of their weakened state.
+spasjt I think there are arguments to be made for either interpretation. However, perhaps Garak sums up the aftermath of the Dominion War best:
"We live in uncertain times."
Garak is my favorite character in all of Star Trek because he is so different in mentality and outlook from the other characters and from the tone of Star Trek in general.
After all those years of awesomeness with Garak, I actually was a bit disappointed with this being his final scene. Granted it was a good scene, but we don't really get as much closure as we got with the other characters. I would have at least liked to have seen Garak one more time to establish what his role might be in rebuilding Cardassia. Obviously I don't really see him as the new head of state, but perhaps the new government might ask him to serve as an advisor. Personally, I'd like to think he turned down any official position and simply chose to retire somewhere out of the way to live in peace, or so everyone thinks. In reality he spends his remaining life quietly watching Cardassia's rebirth and makes it his mission in life to protect it, once again having eyes and ears everywhere and when necessary, removing potential threats that could steer His people back down a dark path.
I think the same thing about Garak myself, I don't see him in the government because he worked his best in the background, where the true power is and where the corruption begins. What better place for Garak to be to help Cardassia.
He ended as he started. As plain, simple Garak.
At the same time though, I think giving Garak closure would have betrayed his character. He's always walked the line, existing in an eternal grey area. It only makes sense that his conclusion would be equally vague.
Garak like Oscar schlinder
The best kind of redemption arc is one where they can never really be redeemed because their crimes are too great. The best they can do is try to better the world around them. Garak is one of those characters.
They should've kissed. End all of the subtext and dancing around the subject.
The writing in this show was awesome, especially the dialogue. Conversations like this... so real, so deep, so philosophical. It was sad to see Star Trek devolve into softcore porn and space wars after this.
I prefer the philosophical conversations like these so much more than the space battles. They can be cool, like I love the battles at the end of DS9 but they become too much sometimes.
Bashir and Garak had a really awesome friendship. I think Garak is the most intriguing and therefore my favorite of all the Star Trek characters (and I have seen all of every series). I always wished there were more episodes about Garak. Even now, I'd love for there to be some sort of spinoff show all about Garak's adventures.
This scene deserved a hug!
The first and last casualty of war is a nation's culture. In looking at the history of the world, how many cultures no longer exist because of war and conflict? Lost to the mortal mind and only existing as myths, stories, ruins and conjecture. Troy is one example. The Anasazi is another. With the Anasazi, we don't really have a clue what happened. Garak moaning the loss of the culture he knew and grew up with shows just how damaging the Dominion war was, not just on Cardassia, but the Alpha quadrant as a whole. The Duke of Wellington said, "Next to a battle lost, the saddest thing is a battle won." Garak helped win the war but lost everything that made Cardassia home.
DS9 really showed the true cost of interstellar war on all sides, but it also ends on a message of hope.
I know there are several books out there showing Garak to be one of the leaders of the new Cardassia, but I always head cannoned that he never took public power, but was always around the whomever the new leaders were to help keep them honest. And if not, there is always room in his garden for some new flowers...
Cardassia thought the Dominion would be an ally but from the Founders perspective Cardassia was nothing more than a conquest they achieved through diplomacy rather than force.
Cardassia is a nation that, according to the lore, has largely been barely holding on, struggling to keep ahead of potential food and resource shortages that might otherwise destroy it, using conquest and exploration to gain resources. With the damage done by the Dominion War, that struggle would be far harder. Even if the new Cardassian government doesn't collapse, it will be a long, long time before they become a force in the Alpha Quadrant... if they ever do again.
Very good series and well written. The cardassians are a parallel to the Europeans and their history.
This reminds me of what Germans must have felt like in 1945 after their country unconditionally surrendered.
Most of Germany's cities were bombed out ruins, there was no water, sewage, electric or gas. No supply chain. Its industry was completely gone. The allies occupied Germany and many Germans only ate because of allied aid. What a terrible state to be in.
zoidberg444 If you ever want to see a theatrical presentation of it. The last chunk of the film "Downfall" (der untergang) shows exactly what the people of Germany were feeling. Those close to the Nazi party felt like the entire world was coming to an end. Many many many suicides, and the average German citizens were lost and confused. Russian soldiers were particularly brutal with the women as revenge.
+Milad Chow Just to clarify are you saying the rapes were well deserved?
+Milad Chow I still remember when I was in school (I live in Austria) and a teacher brought her mother who was 15 at the time the russians were in control. Under tears she told us how every day 3-5 russians would come to their house, drag her, her sister and her mother in the bedroom and have their way with them. Her sister even committed suicide because of it and they were already mourning over the loss of their father in the war.
So go to Germany or Austria, find a retirement home with people who lived under the russians at that time and tell them how well deserved it was. After that find a history book and bash it against your head until you maybe get some sense, you insensitive prick. Russians were just as horrible as the Nazis were and none of the common folk deserved what has been done to them by them. To say that people deserved that treatment just for living in a country that did horrible things is just stupid beyond belief.
+zoidberg444 "This reminds me of what Germans must have felt like in 1945 after their country unconditionally surrendered."
I doubt that many of them had concerns about the long therm future of their country or what would happen to its art and culture. Most of them were probably just glad the war was finally over(with them surviving) and thought about where they would get food and shelter. Concerns about such idealistic things were a luxury most of them didn´t have at that time.
+kan Chowdhury The populations complicity in the atrocities ordered by the Nazi party and the German high command was not in dispute. We waged a total war on Germany, which didn't end at militarily defeating Germany and occupying it. We completely rehabilitated their society, instilled new cultural values and realigned Germany's economy and trade patterns. It was a project that took more than a generation.
With Garack being in exile he was safer this way. He was able, in the end, to act like an organic backup disc for the all things CARDASSIA/CARDASSIAN.
Garak idealized Cardassian culture, in his mind there was no other above it. This scene is devastating to him seeing what he dreamed of going back to wiped out without any remorse from the Dominion. It was one of the few times you see the real Garak in the show, what he truly believed. His character was just awesome. It will never happen and I think Andrew Robinson is too old now but if they ever did that Section 31 show, he needs to be in it...
Me and the boys, returning from the pandemic.
One of the best scenes. I was slightly worried that Garak's response that one could never say they would meet again might have suggested
Implied a self "unaliving" that Bashir completely missed, but I assume that implication was unintentional.
What Garak said about the Cardassians responsibility for what has happened to them is what German exiles said in 1945 about the German responsibility for Hitler and the Second World War.
This is why I loved DS9
I just noticed a little detail. The first time they met, Garak touched Bashir in a suggestive manner. They end their relationship with Garak fingering his shoulder and letting go. Both start and stop with a hand on the shoulder.
Garak was one of the best characters in all of star trek or science fiction for that matter. Hell DS9 was littered with great performances. Maybe Garak can make an appearance in picard.
When the series run the first time, I always thought that the writers had the germans in mind when they created the Cardassians. The occupation of Bajor is something that's close to Poland in WW2 and the holocaust and the way their military was set was also something that made me believe, that germans were the inspiration. And this last scene proofed it to me. The horror of witnessing that the own culture isn't just guilty as charged, no... so much is lost and now everyone will hate them.
Wow.
Goosebumps!!!
Hard to believe that this was more than 20 years ago! (2020)
Where oh where does the time go
Back in the day where writers were fine with unplanned story arcs that allowed the relationships to develop naturally, ^oo^
The analogy between the Cardassians and the NAZIs are made pretty strongly throughout the show.
Their system of government, their superiority complex and the militarism, but also the way things ended for them.
Much like how Germany was left in ruins, so too was Cardassia.
Germany rebounded and learned their economic lesson.
But making all sorts of new mistakes under Merkel.
Like Cardassia, Germany too, has a rich and ancient history and culture. This is the country that gave us the Protestant Reformation, moveable type, and some of the world's finest composers of classical music and literature, as well as advances in science and technology. Part of that history, too, was one of arrogant aggression, clearly expressed through two world wars and the thankfully brief Nazi era.
I've play this scene over and over again to remind me of ending of a view in history. There is so many ending in one lifetime.
Garak. Q and spock the best characters of star trek for me.
This was predicted in Duet, we just didn't know it at the time.
I always felt like we were supposed to think that garak maaaaaybe was going to go kill himself after this scene. Dark even by DS9 standards I know, but it seems like his abrupt change of attitude was him making that decision.
I thought he was merely being fatalistic. Suicide makes sense, but I think he equally expected to be the target of some Bajoran/Klingon retaliation effort.