The Diving TRAGEDY of Linnea Mills | Scary Fascinating
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- čas přidán 14. 07. 2022
- The Diving TRAGEDY of Linnea Mills | Scary Fascinating
In October of 2020 Linnea Mills was interested in getting her Advanced Open Water certification in her hometown of Missoula Montana. Little did she know she was putting her trust into those she shouldn't have as the dive shop she chose not only had a history of negligence but they were in over their head by even offering these courses.
Check out this weeks video to see how and why a young women like Linnea lost her life to human negligence.
All information used was researched and compiled by myself for your viewing pleasure. Please let me know any suggestions or comments on how I can improve that experience. I love ALL comments, positive or negative, keep 'em coming.
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#caving #caveexploring #mountainclimbers - Zábava
As a marine biologist that's been diving for over a decade, these people should be behind bars without question.
fully agree Rachel!
Do you have to learn to dive if you work in marine biology, is it a must? Just interested.
@@Smaugette I don't believe so but you will probably get wet. Most of what that field of study would be interested in would be less than 60 feet.
@@Smaugette It depends on what you want to focus on. It's an extremely competitive field, so not having diving certs could hinder you.
@abigmonkeyforme Seth Listen looked a lot older than 14 with a full goatee and moustache, so i question your information on that. It was said that there was a 14 year old student with the group though.
So, the diving instructors f*ed up several times and then blamed another trainee that tried to save her?
That's so messed up and terrible. I hope these people never work as diving instructors again. I'd hope that Linnea's family wins the lawsuit, since this neglegiance and disregard for their daughters safety needs to be punished somehow.
Omg is this real video of her on the bottom?
@abigmonkeyforme can I get the link to that lawsuit
@abigmonkeyforme that's the problem, he wasn't qualified, but he did accept that position.
@abigmonkeyforme I'm curious to see the outcome of the case. I get what you're saying, but I don't think our legal system would treat this relationship quite the same as the responsibility a parent has for their child. The instructor and assistant knew what training, certifications, and experience they had, so I would think that would tell them if they are qualified to be doing what they were doing or not. I've watched and read a few accounts of this story now, so I don't remember if it was on this video or somewhere else, but it said the company was cutting corners, knowingly hiring unqualified instructors, but that instructor was apparently very negligent in her duties as well. I just can't imagine taking people's lives in my hands, when I know I barely know more than they do. This was another unnecessary tragedy.
@@Rls_0523 Negligence in common law systems is based on the idea that one owes a duty of care to their 'neighbor'. A neighbor is someone who is connected to you in some way causally that you affect them by your actions. It's a fuzzy concept but a student of yours in a diving class trivially qualifies.
Then there is the standard of care that you owe. If you're in some position of power or caretaking for the person, the standard increases. Instructing on dangerous dives would entail a very high standard. If the negligence is severe enough it can amount to a criminal offense i.e. gross negligence manslaughter or causing harm.
Gross negligence cannot be gotten around through contract waivers, even if it doesn't rise to a criminal level.
So basically personally I think criminal charges were probably warranted in this case and there will certainly be a massive civil suit.
The Tragedy about this story is that unlike other ones this wasn’t the diver’s fault at all. She was trusting her authority figures who failed her. She was so young and died far too soon.
Whoa whoa whoa I haven't seen it yet slow down over here
@@stomper1234 then why are you reading comments?
Horrible. WTH are these ppl doing “instructing” others? This one really gets to me. These dry suites require extensive knowledge and oversight. She was doomed the instant she got in the water. RIP young lady. So sorry
@@twocyclediesel1280 exactly. I’ve never used a dry suit before but as soon as he said they put weights in the pockets to make her sink my heart dropped. And just like I feared she couldn’t get the weights out again to try to swim to the surface. As soon as they realized the hose was missing she should have either sat out or the whole thing should have ended. The fact the instructor let her into the water with bad equipment shows negligence. I can’t understand at all how she wasn’t charged with something for this event.
@@pucamisc Heartbreaking imagining what she went through. Yes, they should’ve been charged. I’m sure they were very attentive when taking her money.
The fact that none of them in that company or working for them were charged criminally responsible for her death sickens me and makes me so angry. I don't understand people like that. Poor Linnea and her family.
Sadly, part of the problem is that you sign a waiver waiving all liability from the dive shop and instructors. They were 100% negligent and deserve consequences, but those waivers pretty much protect them from everything besides intentional murder.
Waivers don’t protect you from a civil suit where there has been gross negligence and neither do they address criminal liability at all.
Our justice system is a farce. Power always trumps justice
Federal prosecutors are lazy asshats. If this had happened on state land, they'd probably be facing jail time.
@abigmonkeyforme Federal prosecutors have something like a 99% conviction rate, meaning they pass on cases they aren't positive they will win. I have a dive buddy who is a lawyer, and he thinks that the case was good enough that a state DA would prosecute.
Poor Linnea. Poor Gentry, too. Thank god someone had a GoPro to prove that shop was lying. SO frustrating about the Attorney General. The FACT that Snow didn't know those things while makes her knowingly negligent!!!! Hopefully they get justice in the civil suit.
Unbelievable.. the instructors are 100% responsible for Linnea's death.
RIP Linnea ❤️
So many mistakes made here..
First the "instructors" recommended she rent a dry suit which is a piece of technical equipment which has a *entire separate class* for its use
Second they sent her on that dive *knowing* her dry suit was not functional on top of her not knowing how to use it (or she wouldn't have even got in the water had she known)
Then they *intentionally* overloaded her suit with *non-ditchable* weights
*And last but probably worst of all screw ups,* they obviously had more trainees in the water than they were capable of handling since *nobody* (of the instructors) even checked on her or knew she was having issues until it was too late🤦🏾♂️
It's Manslaughter for sure. I would add that she may have fell under peer pressure. She also had a huge blind spot in her dive education to assume a dry suit operated like a wet suit.
So you're not wrong except she was doing her advanced course with padi and without taking the drysuit class you can do a dry suit dive as part of the specialty dives for advanced so there was nothing wrong with that part but from there on it was a shit show so it hardly matters
For a little bit of clarity: PADI allows dry suits to be used during Open Water. The instructors are required to do a dry suit orientation prior to getting into the water and the skills associated for dry suits must be completed. The orientation includes a functional check of the dry suit ensuring operation of the inflator and dump valve. There is also a check for weighting at the surface of the water. The dry suit specialty may also be completed as its own separate specialty course.
That said: she should not have been put in the water without a dry suit inflator hose. I would presume, based on my experience, that she did not need that amount of weight. I would speculate a weighting check was not conducted. With dry suits there is an option, while not recommended, to put SOME non-ditchable weight on the inside of the dry suit. The MAJORITY of the weight should be on the outside and ditchable (i.e. BC integration/ weight belt) in the event of such an emergency.
Overall, I agree without your comment; just wanted to provide clarity that PADI allows dry suits on your very first dive.
THIS RIGHT HERE!!!!!!! Yep
Agree. Huge clusterfuck. I also think she had no assistant or at least none that were qualified. (Not that she was qualified.) I'm a North East diver (USA). I took my first certification classes in March. When it was time for the open water training and certification, it was April. Cold water! So I actually had to be dry suit certified at the same time. It was more pool time in a dry suit before open water dives. For those reading this who don't know...I had to learn how to quickly unplug my inflator hose while simulating a stuck hose. (dry suit over filled, too buoyant) from an upside down position while righting my self and deflating it. Use the dry suit instead of a BCD. Repeated drills in unplugging inflator with thick gloves on. Over and over and over. It's a lot of rigorous training for that one piece of gear which could be deadly if not properly trained how to use properly and what to do if it fails. I know what that dry suit squeeze feels like even at the surface. Insanity not to be able to inflate that immediately let alone at any depth. And not being able to dump weights? Suicide. In this case I think this is at least involuntary manslaughter.
These two had absolutely no business teaching any type of diving
@abigmonkeyforme stop calling a 22yr old a kid. Its a grown adult. Referring to him as a kid puts innocence towards him.
Its an adult who didnt care.
@abigmonkeyforme wth. ... 🤷♀️
I can’t imagine being in a situation where you’re trying everything you can to try and save someone in that situation and just not being able to physically do it no matter how hard you try and having to turn back. I can’t imagine how that couldn’t mess with your head forever :/
i cant even imagine it either 🥺
i hope he has accepted his efforts did not go unappreciated and that at least he trried😭
As a paramedic I have been in this situation. Trying to pull a large adult male from a vehicle when we were first on scene. It sucks to try with everything you have but just not be able to. This situation is a bit different and I can’t even imagine what he has went through, especially after being accused of being the reason she died. He is a true hero, through and through.
pretty sure if he just held her and inflated his BCD he could have got her up
I've never heard of a more negligent dive company. 44 lb of weight stuck into her pocket? WTF? That's just one of about 10 things wrong with this dive. Criminal charges should definitely be filed
and in FRESH WATER! That is pure insanity.
Stop complaining
Fucking chimers, man.
@@veracious8205 No. I’m going to keep complaining actually: I’ll do it ten times extra just for you.
@@veracious8205 complaining?
That poor Mr. Gentry... He risked his own life but it wasn't enough... I can't imagine the horror he probably still experiences.
I hope he's ok now.
The lack of prosecution is disgusting.
RIP 💔
This is one of the diving deaths that just didn't need to happen. Poor Linnea
Do any of them need to happen?
Absolutely heartbreaking, because it was absolutely avoidable.
Dry suit diving is a specialty course in itself, not something to try for the first time on a course.
Without a low pressure inflator attached to the dry suit there is nothing she could have done to avoid " squeeze", depending on the dry suit material construction it could well have rendered her immobile and unable to even add air to her buoyancy jacket.
44 lbs of weight is absurd, obviously no pre dive buoyancy checks were carried out, so they just loaded her up to make sure she would descend.
The weights should have been on a belt, at least a rescuer could then easily ditch them.
I am flabbergasted that no charges were brought against the " instructors" or the dive operators.
My heartfelt condolences go out to her friends and family, there can be no worse way to lose a loved one than knowing it was preventable.
Whatever the courts of justice say, this was negligent manslaughter.
44 lbs!! Jesus Chr...
They declined to prosecute murderers so this is far from surprising some district attorneys are truly out to lunch. Their all too worried about Jan 6, when leftists tried to smash their way in previously and then burned down a church but no one was prosecuted or even charged for that. The west is fxucked.
perfect comment. i agree
we need justice for her
Some places you do learn to use a dry suit at the same time as learning to dive, due to the water conditions, but they don't just dump you in a lake to do it, you do a *lot* of pool time first without the dry suit, then with, so you're comfortable and competent with it before leaving a controlled environment.
44 lbs? Dafuq?
From everything I’ve heard, the instructor, the instructor trainer, and the dive operator all should be facing criminal homicide charges and negligent homicide charges. Not a single protocol was followed, which a lot of them are learned in the OW course. It’s pretty sad that only another student tried to assist her. I hope that dive center gets shut down and the owners, management, instructor, course director, and other relevant employees all end up in prison.
She was…in a dive CLASS?! Wtf?! 😡🤬
I've been a cave diver and scuba diver for 20 yrs. This was absolutely horrific. The weights should have been placed in a belt so it could have been accessed easier. That poor girl.
My dad too works at Nitendo
Why did you take down your videos?
@@fredthechamp3475 My videos aren't taken down. They're set to private for my animal rescue subscribers.
@@ukmedicfrcs Oh okay. Respect for being honest 👍
So sad! RIP to Linnea. Such a shame
This goes so far beyond simple negligence. The incident is absolutely appalling itself but the fact that no charges were filed is sickening.
How can someone join a dive class, end up dead though obvious negligence and no one is held accountable?
This world is seriously lacking in accountability
IMO ALLEGEDLY
Not world, the U.S.
@@davidralston41 Because the US is the only country where people can drown
@@davidralston41 PADI cert's and dive cards work INTERNATIONALLY... SO blaming it all on the U.S. isn't going to cut any mustard. ;o)
@@davidralston41 these things happen all over what do you mean 😂
Oh it's not alleged.
The worst for me is that they know she has no experience with the dry suit, already see that the hose is missing, come up with a workaround and let her dive anyway, but in the water don't check on her how the buoyancy works out.
The also stuffed weights into her suit she couldn’t just drop to surface.
These two had no business teaching. They another entire company should be in prison.
It's become absolutely INSANE what these prosecutors, DA's, and AG's will and will not prosecute these days. You see charges dropped on incredibly violent criminals and then they throw the book at someone else who should probably catch a break. It makes no sense. And in this case, it's quite obvious there should be some level of criminal charge, even if it is small. To just dismiss it completely is such an insult to the dead and only makes it easier for these types of needless deaths to happen in the future.
RIP
The people running the legislative system today are not interested in justice and law, they are all communists and leftists. They are interested in changing the country to what they want. You’re right- it’s no coincidence that they let off violent criminals and murderers and rapists every single day letting them out multiple times to commit the same offenses multiple times while normal things that should be charged and looked at are completely thrown out of the book.
Corrupt
100% agree. The system is totally broken.
Bring back eye for an eye and public stonings, would solve a lot of problems.
The whole of America needs a major overhaul, it has lost its moral compass. Separating the Justice System from the political one would be a good place to start. Although diving operations around the world seem to have some sort of special protection when people in their care die from negligence on the part of the operator…I can’t figure that one out.
So sad! Anybody should know you are less buoyant in fresh water than saltwater. The weights should have been more accessible. I know nothing at all about diving. As others have said. They shouldn't have been dive instructors. RIP Linnea ! And thank you Scary Fascinating ☆
Holy shit. I am fucking FLOORED. I've been diving for 25 years and every single thing you described in the lead-up to that second dive was just SCREAMING red flags. 44 pounds of weight on an 18-year-old kid? What the hell??
The amount of bad choices made in the lead up to that fatal dive is absolutely criminally negligent. It's a crime in itself that these people weren't prosecuted.
I'm just going to ask because I have no idea, myself... It's only a suspicion... BUT since PADI cert's and dive cards can be used in about any shop around the world, would it maybe be under some leverage or pressure that the AG decided it wasn't going to pursue the case???
I mean, usually, they only drop a case before court on a lack of convincing evidence... BUT that can't possibly be the case here... AND if not directly on Snow, there SHOULD be a case for even putting Snow in charge of the class without the experience and training TIME requisite to be a proper instructor.
There's a dry suit on a kid with NO instruction on dry suits at all... There's VIDEO of the instructor in question paying NO mind to a dive student clearly in trouble... There's clear evidence of NON-ditchable weights in pockets... etc...
AND every diver I've ever talked to has the same golden rule of diving, "Never go down with a known issue."
It's just a dog-pile of documentation and evidence for ignoring damn nearly every safety feature and rule in the book... Something stinks of political malfeasance on this. ;o)
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 sounds about right to me.. it’s disgusting.
@@PiXie232 Yeah, the only way politics can get any worse is moving from national to international... Figures... ;o)
@abigmonkeyforme Not directly or in so many words... However, they ARE an internationally accredited body of instruction... That means your "PADI" Dive Cert's legally allow you to purchase or rent equipment just the same in any participating country... AND THAT means these agreements rely heavily on treaties that support a web-work of other industries, instructional institutions and universities, and so forth... It doesn't take PADI calling and begging not to be brought to account, but some dignitary taking notice of a plan to prosecute and pointing out that such an incident could bring other treaties into question...
We don't always get to know what peculiar other workings go on behind closed doors... BUT the scuba community remains largely self governed in spite of a LOT of dubious practices and occasionally reckless behavior going relatively unchecked...
You believe whatever you want. Somewhere, from my experience, something stinks of politics... plain and simple. I've long learned to trust my gut on that... AND I won't be going to a PADI recognized instructor for much of anything regarding dive cert's regardless.
It's a free country, and even freer world. You go ahead and do you. ;o)
@abigmonkeyforme To become an instructor, there's usually a specified number of "successful dives" to be completed between getting certified to dive at all, and getting supervised instruction privileges and even MORE to get UN-supervised instruction privileges...
AT LEAST, that's what most have told me when I was visiting those "Discover Scuba" places at resorts in my "liberty time" abroad in the Navy.
It takes TIME to schedule and equip a dive, make a plan, and dive it... and come back successfully. ALL of this takes time to be logged and verified, and for the next dive to be scheduled. As I understand it, you can't just jump in and back out of the water with a tank on your back and call that "a successful dive"...
Snow simply didn't have the time with her own certifications to build that list of successful dives, log them in, and prove she'd practiced what she'd trained... There IS a "Dive Instructor" certification for every type and level of certification offered via instruction in the scuba world. You can't legally be instructing anyone to get certified at anything without that "Dive Instructor of X" certification... SO you can't just get... say "Open Water Scuba Certified" and bill yourself to instruct and certify people "Closed Circuit Rebreather" Certified for diving... or even "Technical Diving"... You have to EARN those stripes and cert's. Each one comes with a card assigned and it logged in your name for the international recognition for your accreditation. It's not difficult... complicated maybe... but not difficult. ;o)
It's scary how common diver deaths actually are, especially due to other inexperienced divers or mis sold equipment. This poor girl was just about to live her life and due to people wanting to skip corners she is no longer with us. The fact that they want to blame the only person who tried to help her is just horrible and then the DA wants to undermine those who essentially killed her is so much worse. No parent should have to bury a child that young. Rest in peace Linnea.
diver deaths are rare its a very safe sport
@@maxmock2661 it's a safe sport when you know what to do, diver death's are more common than you would think, not because they knew everything about safety but most cases are because of dive schools like this, they teach you the bare minimum and let you set off with a certificate. Also there are quite a few dive schools that don't even look at how experienced someone is or teach their students the most important thing, safety. It's always horrible to see dive instructors who don't even know what they are doing themselves.
I've witnessed a dive school, take tourists with no experience and no dives on their name to a depth in the open sea wich was extremely unsafe, one of the divers had problems with her ear and didn't even know how to equalize her ears. All they said after the dive was go to the doctor first to check it out and then come back for your OW certificate.
When you don't know what to expect on a course things like this can happen, thats why it's better to ask multiple experienced divers for a good place to learn the sport.
All things said, I love the sport and i would love to have more people around who dive, I've gotten my wreck diver certification yesterday together with my previous instructor. I hope you have a nice day and sorry for the huge comment 😂
Dry suit diving requires an entirely separate course at my shop. Cant believe they sold her a dry suit to use w/o a warning she needed training..
Fantastic video. Well made and compassionate. Bravo, mate. xx
Debra Snow needs to stay the hell away from any type of diving and instruction.
It’s easy to disconnect the hose from the BCD and attach it to your dry suit. IF you are experienced with a dry suit and IF you trained this BEFORE. This girl couldn’t know the procedure without having property training. So sad 😭
That boat in the footage (time 7:21) dropped the anchor right on top of the divers hitting them
Word, your parting statements sums up so much, at the end of the day & in our last moments, we r reduced to very few words, I love you is what I hope to hear & to say at my end. I'm so sorry Linnea, so young & looking forward to so much only to have it stripped away.... not even a lil bit of justice. Rest in paradise, sweet angel 🕊
Hey all, the dive place is Gull Diving (not Gold as some comments mention), and this wasn't even the first time those villains were involved in shady / criminal acts. Horrible people that are escaping justice for sure.
This story feels so eerie… I knew the girl who was Linnea’s close friend. She used to go to the same middle school as me and we talked a bit before moving after I went on to high school. I remember seeing her posting about this story but I never knew all the full details so it’s good I found this video.
Do you have a link to the diving school. I need to go chat on their social media
Dude this channel is criminally underrated!! 246 views in an hour? This is top notch content, thank you for your hard work it will pay off eventually!!
I watch a plethora of Diving, and Cave Diving videos. It's become a hyperfocus, more often than not the failures and deaths are at the fault of the diver for not following propper instructions, or being responsible. This case really sticks out to me, this young woman was doing exactly as those who were supposed to be TRAINING her said, she was at the mercy of her trainers and died through no fault of her own. People need to be in jail for this.
This makes my blood boil.. so many mistakes and negligence… poor Linnea.. she deserved better… rest in peace
Absolutely.
44 lbs is insane, even as a 200+lb man I only use about 20lbs; and in POCKES NO LESS! These people should absolutely be charged with criminal negligence. They are 100% responsible for her death.
Fat is more buoyant than muscle, and women naturally carry more fat. Not saying it's the correct weight but being a 200lb man means nothing by itself.
Some bodybuilders sink like rocks when trying to swim, because of very low body fat.
knowing conduct?the instructor was in over her head and still certifying people when she knew she wasnt suppose too.how is this ok for them to get away with this ?sue them in civil
Civil does nothing nether does criminal. It won’t bring her back this is when you must resort to help they higher powers than human!!! Prayers for the family. It was her time unfortunately, we do not know Gods reasons.
I've been a certified and active fresh and saltwater diver for over 50 years. We were trained to know the risks and deal with situations. Now, divers are undertrained and overequipped. It's more of a style show, coordinating your mask and fins with your BC and wetsuit. Knowing what I know from decades of experience, if I had to conform to the current method of teaching and use of current recommenced gear, I would never dive again.
Great details! Thanks
I'm shocked at how irresponsible, dangerous, and negligent that company was. If you even consider them to be a company that is. How could they even imagine the blind would be able to lead and teach the blind in such a dangerous hobby. It's deadly enough with professional's that take every precaution when it comes to being safe. This wasn't a if scenario regarding a deadly accident but instead just a when. I hope the company and instructor's were prosecuted in both civil court and criminally for this.
That's ridiculous smh they admitted it was negligent and caused a death but still decided not to prosecute. I'd check the decision makers bank account and see if a payoff wasn't the reason why they made that decision
My uncle died a very similar way a few years ago and the dive company covered it up. It's disgusting what they can get away with.
@abigmonkeyforme my uncle was in Mexico scubadiving with his oldest son. Suddenly started foaming at the mouth underwater and then an instructor went over and pulled him to the surface but he was already dead.
It was a shallow dive at a reef.
It was never looked into in mexico, and they wouldnt give us an official cause of death. My aunt had to fight to get his body back to the US and then I can't remember what they said it actually was or if they couldn't tell because it had been too long or something. - it was like 5 or 6 years ago and we weren't close.
@@12XxXHandlesAreStupidXxX123 Justice in Mexico in 1 word: Bribe
@@12XxXHandlesAreStupidXxX123 mexico is known for having faulty dive compressors so it could have been bad air that killed him, sadly mexico is very corrupt
I’m surprised nobody came down, disconnected their own dry suit hose, so they could inflate her up. You can always disconnect and reconnect underwater. You are taught that during you’re initial dry suit course
Thats a great advice BUT her drysuit was NOT having the chest hose. She bought it privat from a woman (this is manslaughter if you ask me) !!! My boyfriend and I were thinking what to do in case of emergency. I was thinking to open up the cervical collar to get water into the suit - not a perfect idea due to the weight and the ice water BUT at least you would not be squeezed, you could breath again...
@@alinepelzer-minimalistisch1694 well every dry suit has a dry suit hose port, she just didn’t have a dry suit hose connected to her first stage and in turn nothing to connect to her dry suit port. The instructors failed her and completely panicked. The only next step would be to attempt to get her out the suit underwater, but man o man, they were terrible instructors… failed her in every way
@@ReverseCard NO she didn't that's why the privat seller Heidi Houch is under investigation as well!
@@alinepelzer-minimalistisch1694 yes the dry suit had a dry suit hose connector. Every dry suit has one, I dry suit dive and have been technical diving for years. There was no low pressure hose connected to her dry suit port, so she couldn’t inflate her suit. They straight didn’t install one on her first stage. Do you even know what I’m talking about? It seems like you have no idea, I think ur just confused
@@ReverseCard OK that makes sense got lost in translation (english isn't my mother tongue)
I always love your videos!
I'm nowhere near a technical diver of any sort, but I counted at least 6 different red-cards that would have caused me to "nope out" before the dive even began.
The standard for criminal negligence (otherwise known as recklessness) is that you don’t know what you’re doing is dangerous, but you should.
It’s absolutely unbelievable that they’re not being charged with manslaughter for this. US attorneys office never fails to disappoint
That said the parents are wrong. The government has no duty to protect you from other private individuals. Deshaney v Winnebago and Castle rock v Gonzalez
This is 100% on the dive instructors. So sad. Makes me sick to my stomach. The shop owners and both instructors caused a young girls death.
My heart hurts for Linnea family.. so sad!! But I'm livid wth. those clowns that had should never tried to pretend they were professional
.I hope the family finds peace ..this is so damn disgusting..IT SHOULD NOT EVER EVER HAPPEN!!!
The biggest tragedy AND travesty of immense proportions. I pray that those who MUST be held accountable..are, and that the Mills family recover from the grief and loss of their precious daughter. This is a terrible injustice and seems to be commonplace in our society now..where those who NEED TO BE HELD accountable are once again ‘turned loose’ on society to inflict harm once again on a typically unsuspecting public..
Well done video and narration, refreshing to not have loud music blasting in the background as many do on these type of videos.
Thanks!
Love your channel 💗
This case is the reason my dive school decided to drill us on removing BCDs and weights from our dive buddies in the case of emergency. The instructors should be behind bars. A good scuba school should always impress the risks of diving onto their students like what mine did and never cut corners.
Amazing video! I was deep into the diving community for about 15 years, my dad being one of the most accomplished divers in South America. And if baffles me how easy someone can get a diving instructor certification, in many places you basically just have to pay and follow the course. There are no thorough background investigation of the diver experience before accepting him at the course.
Just a slight correction, at surface level there is 1 atm of pressure, every 10 meters of water it increases by another atm, so at 10 meters its double the pressure, at 20 triple and so on.
You are correct about the pressure at depth. I caught that while listening to the audio. Nice job.
@abigmonkeyforme The issue is that she did her training in conditions *completely* different to where she planned to teach, and then made baffling choices on top. But there's only so much you can teach about managing students being very cold and the extra equipment that might require if you're in a nice warm place where the water is always a pleasant temperature - it's all theory. She really should have done a sort of 'apprenticeship' with a more experienced instructor *after* becoming qualified, in conditions similar to where she planned to work, to learn to handle the additional issues.
@abigmonkeyforme My understanding from what instructors have said is that the differences (apart from equipment like drysuits maybe being needed) are largely down to student comfort issues and the associated student focus issues that are created when your students are cold and uncomfortable. Those are the sort of things that a confident instructor who is good at 'reading' people might notice and adjust for automatically (especially if they have a lot of personal experience with the conditions and how people typically behave just from diving with others) but that can be just enough to start an error chain that leads to an accident if the instructor is less confident, overwhelmed, or less comfortable in the conditions themselves.
So (aiui) in colder areas you might structure your class to make sure everyone is extra focused during safety checks (because they might be distracted by the cold or by anticipating being cold) and then during the class try to minimize time in which anyone is staying still as moving around a bit helps keep you warmer, but also to *plan* that so that even though people are moving around, they're still where you can keep control.
It's very much the kind of thing that an apprenticeship type training period in a new area would be able to cover easily - plus any other useful local knowledge like current behaviors or what boaters tend to be like, if the instructor hasn't done a lot of diving there already, which is possible.
Aww man. That’s horrible. Incompetence from the shop and instructors. From the info from your video, it’s definitely their fault.
Ps. Thanks for the consistent uploads. 👍🏼
This incident is a microcosm of our country’s failure to hold people accountable. This was a travesty of justice, a completely preventable death, and total incompetence on the part of the company, and their employees. My heart goes out to the parents. I am so very sorry for your loss.
Coupled with a blindly accepting person who if had done a small amount of research, could have chosen not to follow the accountable parties. Microcosm indeed.
These tragedies happen the world over.
@@nicwelch A lot of tourist dive operations around the world have a bad habit of over-weighting novice divers. Ruins the coral reefs, makes for needless discomfort, and can cause accidents. Many go unreported.
99% of jurisdictions would have found the instructors and their superiors culpable in these deaths. This isolated miscarriage of justice is not all all representative of a nationwide trend as you suggest. Rather it is the decision of a single rogue judge in Montana who knew nothing about negligent scuba practices. It will certainly get reversed on appeal. Sorry that you have problems with our country and the story triggered you. The system didn’t work the first time but this case is not yet resolved
@@drdrew3 Thank you for responding. I appreciate, and agree with you. I sincerely hope the decision is reversed on appeal. I am triggered most days just by reading independent news sources. I’m trying to control my outrage, even though it’s demonstrably justified.
Please Never, put 100% certainty into anyone or anything, overconfidence and even worse misplaced confidence are always killers. Everything truly has the posibility to go awry at any point.
I have a PADI advanced diving license. Mind you I have probably less than 100 dives. The fact that you can have less than that number and be called advanced is nothing short of an embarrassment. I honestly feel and consider myself a total noob, but I follow all the rules that I know to a tee because of this.
PADI minimum requirements to enroll in an instructor course is 100 logged dives, and 6mos since you became a certified diver. 🤷♀️
Having taught many drysuit divers, what is unacceptable, is the lack of pre-diving checks and also ensuring the regultaor had the required hoses and was tested before the dive. I would always recommend a drysuit orientation dive in a confined pool or shallow body of water to demonstrate how the suit inflates, deflates and how to deal with common issues. Having someone loose their life over disregard for standards and common practices to ensure a diver, be it novice or experienced, is safe, is simply unexceptable.
agreed
Just the thumbnail alone made my blood pressure rise
Imagine the fear that girl must've gone through that day, this is just so freaking horrible. Like seriously what was even the point of going on the dive? Supposedly they got to the lake when it was starting to get dark, they should've just cancelled the dive entirely. So idiotic.
Saw a bit of video from Linnea's service, what her parents were going through was expectedly heartbreaking.
After watching numerous diving video disasters over the last few weeks, the thing that is baffling to me is some people’s care free attitudes towards diving(not the victim in this story but the instructors) just the total disregard to safety, lack of preparation or knowledge and ignorance involved in some of these accidents is surreal to me. If people could just as easily go into space would they just be all “ well there can’t be all that much to it, we should be fine..... oh no! Somethings gone unexpectedly wrong!”.. it’s mind blowing.
This is exactly why I haven't taken any classes. Too many stories about instructors fucking up. Even the best eventually die. These instructors were negligent and killed her.
What an utter nightmare. Why were near-beginners in such deep water in a lake to begin with?
I'm so sorry to you and your family. R.i.p sister x
The absolute negligence and outright ignorance of this diving outfit is beyond comprehension. I've seen lots in the industry over the years but wow.
This story is a sad example of why "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing". "What they didn't know...didn't notice" could fill a book. It's like every act these days - "Not my fault!" and apparently the INjustice system agrees in this case.
This sickens me… It is so wrong that no one was held responsible for this young lady’s tragic…and totally preventable death…is terrible… some prosecutors are wimps…Refusing cases thst are not “slam dunks”, to preserve and build up their win number… I hope someone is eventually held responsible for this obvious miscarriage of justice, and that the family wins their suit. The shop and dive instructing classes should be shut down…permanently.
We live in a world where right is wrong and wrong is right. How tragic! The Mills family deserved better.
Damn, I'm waiting for Dive Talk to break this down.
RIP.
The hardest lesson no one will ever teach you... is to never trust the teachers 100% In fact, everything anyone tells you, expert or not, take it as a grain of sand. Test every single claim for truthfulness and trustworthiness. Never ever stop thinking for yourself just because a smiling face is saying one thing. People are a) ignorant b) naive c) sometimes malicious and d) selfish. Question everything and trust nothing and nobody besides yourself.
It's a true tragedy and a stark reminder to understand what you are in for. The parents actions are understandable as their young daughter has died . When you pay a company for something always do the minimum research yourself and understand what your paying for before you commit to trusting your life with them .Your life depends on it and your consent can be obtained in many ways that you don't even realize .
@@billbrooke4355 Are you kidding mate this is scuba diving not a sightseeing tour . And there is no expectations or obligation to hold your hand at any time or risk their lives even helping you. If anyone thinks otherwise they are going in blindly and too lazy to read . Your entitled to think anything you want but it doesn't make it so .
Putting the lead weights in her pocket was basically murdering her.
There was ONE instructor. That was Snow. The other guy was just an untrained helper. He’s the one who loaded the weights because he didn’t know how much to give her. Snow should’ve been helping Linnea, but she was already in the water at that point. Snow is to blame for all of this imo. She broke practically ALL regulations. If that had been my daughter and the US attorney declined to prosecute, Snow would’ve been hunted down and never heard from again
Wow. Just wow. That's all I've got; This incident and everything that followed is absolutely disgusting. I can say "shame on" so many things/people involved but most of all, shame on our justice system.
As an advance and experienced diver. These instructors belong in prison. This is criminal negligence. 44 POUNDS of weight on a diver? Let alone in fresh water? That is pure insanity. So many things wrong that should've been immediate red flags before anyone even got their feet wet and it cost a young woman her life. Absolute tragedy.
Hideous miscarriage of justice. Rest In Peace poor sweet little girl 🕯 ❤️
Another great video❤️
Love your videos man. Please never stop. You’ll be as big as mr ballen in no time
You should ask the Dive Talk channel to react to your video! They could add lots of good comments!
Diving seems much more complicated & hazardous than I thought. Too many ways to screw up. Poor girl.
This is why it is so important for people to use due diligence when choosing an instructor for literally anything. Also it seems the entity that sold the suit might share in the liability as well.
Tragic and terrifying what some people will do just for a little bit of money. Call yourself an instructor and lead a trusting young person to their death when you have barely more experience yourself. I wonder how much commission they got on selling her that used and faulty dry suit?
Probably a good lesson on why a bit of homework before attempting an advanced course is necessary. And also investigating and understanding new equipment before using it for the first time. Placing your life in the hands of others should require trust earned over time, not a monetary fee paid to a stranger.
Brutal.. absolutely brutality.. very very upsetting what happened here and why. RIP Linnea🙌❤️🤘🙌
Wow
THIS kind of thing is exactly why so many "old schoolers" (at least through the 90's) avoided the development of "integrated weights" in dive suits. I don't know how many times I've been told to insist on a dive belt, so it can be quick-released easily and up I go. You're also NOT supposed to be using your BCD as an elevator. It's not for that, and you can burst the bladder so you drop uselessly to the bottom for trying that kind of thing...
FOR GOD'S SAKES... If you're going to get and use a new suit or gear that needs weights or whatever, DO THE DAMN BUOYANCY TESTS!!! It's supposed to be NEUTRAL BUOYANCY, so you ultimately have control of going up and down... and remember it's the opposite of piloting an aircraft, "Down is optional, but UP is mandatory." AND NEVER EVER GO UNDERWATER WITH A KNOWN ISSUE!!! I don't care who suggests otherwise or how small the issue is!!!
I don't know what kind of operation the PADI bunch is running, and I've thought (off and on) about getting a cert' or several... I can assure you now, I won't be going with anyone backed by PADI... That's for g** d*** sure! If PADI is on the sign or wall, I'm out.
I'll be looking for at least a guy/gal in their 30's or 40's... Someone who HAS a bit of time to get around a bend or two... Someone who can (probably) at least find their ass with both hands. Barring that, I think I'll stay my scrawny ass out of the friggin' water or just be content with a snorkel. I've pretty much figured out how to use that. ;o)
I'd suggest going with TDI or IANTD. In general their quality is much higher. Their instructors are technical divers and as a result have far more experience and training than the average PADI Open Water instructor. I recently did a IANTD Self Reliant Diver course which included demonstrating that we're able to surface with an empty Wing and Drysuit (in twinset or sidemount) from depth. We also trained on using a DSMB as a backup flotation device. It was interesting.
Please don't get upset at this question: What I don't understand is - why were the lead weights so difficult to locate and remove? Thanks for answering without mocking someone who has never gone diving before.
I think the normal practice is to have them easily accessible so by them putting them in a concealed area or a pocket is really a no no and something divers stay away from for this exact reason.
What an unfair world we live in.
Just googled them, apparently they are permanently closed. The comments on their facebook page are great, no reaction though.. obviously.
[And apparently they were involved in another death, with an inexperienced photographer dying during an underwater shoot.]
Lake McDonald isn't in Missoula Mt,it is in glacier Mt up by glacier National Park it no joke at all I can't believe this happened and I never knew I lived by there at this time so crazy.this poor girl died due to neglected reasons I hope the family could get something they deserve I know it won't bring their daughter back but Mayne hold those accountable they should feel ashamed
PADI has almost zero education in their certification programs.. How can you get certified in 4 DAYS??? Even if it is basic open water I with a 1x1 certified instructor, 4 days isn't even close to appropriate..
That is so sad I wish the best for her family
idk why but I've always had a fear of drysuit diving and don't think I'll ever dive with a drysuit.
Side note but how weird is it that this tragedy in Montana has a man named Dutton involved
This is so scary, R.I.P. Linnea❤
OMG !!!!!
It's disgusting that nobody was criminally charged.
How on earth can those people not be responsible?!!? Who was the judge that made such an outrageous ruling?!!? I’m SO sad for that beautiful young lady and her family. This is unbelievable.. People need to be behind bars including the judge (who no doubt was “persuaded” for that decision!)
It wasn't a judge, it never got in front of a judge, the prosecutor decided not to bring charges.
Heartbreaking 😪 all round..poor family...no justice..shame on the Judge etc...
Some people have Blamed the Dive Organization. The Problem is, The Instructors and Shops may Score 100% during Inspections and Tests. But they Slacked Off. My Instructors were Good. I had 3 during my PADI OW Course. 1 for the Pool. And 2 during the Checkout Dives. The Pool Instructor made sure we knew what to do in an Emergency. The OW Instructors made sure we could do them in the Quarry(2-3 Ft Vis). They said that AOW wasn't Necessary. As there was "Plenty to see" above 60 Feet. I'm Hoping to be able to do the AOW Class this Summer. I'm trying to Impress a Special Lady!!!
Love the insight!!