Mad Minute Series: French Berthier M16 Carbine, 8x50R Lebel
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
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Bloke and Chap take this well-worn French M16 Berthier Carbine in 8x50R Lebel for a spin. We could say it was fast and smooth, but we'd be totally lying.....
We belive this WW1 piece is in Battlefield 1....
love the contrast between these "legally blind" sights and mauser "need a microscope" sights!
I'd like to see you guys try a Mad Minute with the Winchester 1895 Russian.... now _there's_ a brutal challenge!
TheGoldenCaulk a) If I could find one, b) and not have to take out a mortgage to buy it, I would love one!
Those Russian Winchester M1895s that survived the Russian Civil War, were used up in the Spanish Civil War.....
Now if you want to hear and interesting song about Winchester lever guns being used in war.... ca. WW1 period, look here on CZcams for a song from the Mexican Revolution entitled "Carabina Trienta Trienta" That song makes me hungry, I guess I'm off to the Mexican restaurant for dinner and a few shots of Tequila. 😃
@@thebotrchap Best place to look for one "in your area" is Finland. Plenty of survivors there, reckon you can find someone who will let you shoot theirs.
@@thegoldencaulk2742 Makes sense if they exist in Finland. I'd much rather have a Winchester 1895 than a Mosin-Nagant.
Ooooo.... Lewes-type sights! And that fireball!
So much for the idea of en bloc clips being inherently quicker to reload.
Bloke is a Machine.
"No, it doesn't ! Wendy..."
Magnificent.
Much better than the Lebel as faster reloads in combat. The battle sights resemble more like handgun sights because they are big. The Berthier M16 rifle did even up combat in terms of firepower against the German 1898. As you guys know the Mauser 1898 is much superior to what the French infantry could muster up. Very good insight to what a French infantryman had to contend using this rifle in combat. Bloke! Fine job with 15 rounds! I couldn't muster up shooting at your speed with my Lee Enfields and Mausers. Outstanding presentation indeed!!
The m16 sure has gone a long ways since its inception
Payres Indeed, who’d have thought it would come so far 😉
Good shooting bloke! All on paper couldn't ask for better👍 with that rifle respectable speed as well. I'll give ya props for that.
Jolly Good Show Old Chap and Old Bloke.
Somewhere I've seen a photo of French Army bicyclists reoccupying the Rhineland in the '20s, I guess..., each soldier had one of those Berthier carbines slung diagonally across his back.
I just imagine that's about the troubles actual soldiers delt with in the face of death constantly.
I had thought that the French fought almost the entire 1st World War with the 3 shot Berthier rifles and carbines. While the 5-shot models are stamped Mle1916 (implying production as early as 1916) relatively few of them reached the front and fought in that configuration. Most surviving 5-shot Berthiers are post-war upgrades/conversions. My personal Mle 1916 carbine (I think made in 1917) was never upgraded and is still in its 3-shot configuration. I say all of this to perhaps answer why we don't see many surplus 5-shot rifles with bent magazine ejection covers.
I have a 3 shot 1907/15 I know next to nothing about other than it's a quote "transitional" piece
Ian at Forgotten Weapons has done a 'short' series on the development of the Berthier Rifle, and he is also about to publish a book on the subject as well so check him out! 😁
Chatellerault started churning out m16 pattern rifles and carbines from May 1917. By May 1919 342000 m16 carbines has been produced by MAT, MAC and MAS. From that number alone we can deduce that a good number did see late war use. They still saw plenty of use postwar in a wide variety of colonial wars though in usually sandy conditions. There are also some transitional pieces though like your carbine, I have a matching m16 rifle which is also still 3-shot.
You're confusing the M16 rifles with the M16 mousquetons. Very few rifles were made with the 5 shot magazine during the war, while hundreds of thousand mousquetons with the 5 shot magazine were. The very early M16 mousquetons came out of the factory with 3 shot magazines as the magazine design was not finished by the time they started making everything else.
Ah, more good detail: the 5-shot carbines were likely to see service in the Great War, just not the long rifles. But then does that not make us reassess why the ejector covers are rarely found damaged? Perhaps they are more robust than we give them credit for?
"M16 Carbine" I believe you mean M4. :P
This is all well and good but shouldn't a French mad minute involve more cheese and wine?
battleranch Monsieur, one cannot rush cheese and wine 🧐
Minute Furieux!
These berthiers are fascinating rifles
@Lilac Tortoise they just won ww1 with lebel
@@7macfly2 No that’s like saying the Americans won WW1 with the 1903 Springfield. The M1917 was used just as much just like the Berthiers...
The dust cover on the AK47 does not let the weapon fire unless it is first opened.
The bloke would get into the habit of opening if sargent Rob shouted the numbers often enough.
@Lilac Tortoise Preparing a weapon for firing as part of basic training.
Human nature has no border.
I'd like to see how it does against a Mosin.
This guns been on my wishlist for so long, im a sucker for bolt action carbines. Hope to see a mad minute on the TS carcano soon.
Matthew Fauria We only have a 1891 carcano rifle.
sman7290 This rifle (from 1918) is actually pretty smooth with dummies and the trigger is very light. Not taken it to the range yet.
@sman7290 Really? Cause My TS is pretty smooth. (nvm trying to actually pull the bolt up to eject a cartridge that is.)
Wendy at the range? Good video on a less covered rifle...in some circles.
Please explain those weird shooting jackets. Are they must haves?
czcams.com/video/rUQKs-7kR6A/video.html
Ammo is different in every gun.
@Lilac Tortoise He responds to stupid comments. I just want some Bloke love
Is it just that I'm terrible at estimating scale on videos, or is the bolt handle a bit on the long side? Like maybe twice as long as on an SMLE? If so, is it because the bolt is a bit hard to turn?
Yes. Yes. And yes. It's a HELL of a lot of movement to cycle that thing.
Most of this rifles were used by the French résistance during the Liberation of Paris ..
Greetings from France
en-bloc? dont you mean en-bloke? ;)
*WEEOOWEEOOWEEOOO!!*
THIS IS PUN PATROL, GET ON THE GROUND!
You have Reddit? Great job.
Mad Minute of diagnosis. :)
Well they could kept the lid open when in a static position and then closing it when they move..........
Mad Minute on a Lebel rifle?
I'd still like to get one.
Did You know who in Switzerland sale the clips?
Nice looking carbine. Surely better than the labelle?
I was just wondering, have you ever tried speed shooting a Martini-Henry? It would be interesting to quantify just how much of an improvement the Lee-Enfield was, similar to seeing how much of an improvement the M1 rifle was over _it._
I've rapid-fired a .22 BSA Martini, but not a centerfire one. The time will come when we find a suitable one :)
Bloke on the Range Whut? I have one ☝️
One wonders whether contemporary machining could have made a bottom cover that slides forward in a pair of sprung-steel runners, instead of a hinge?
It's possible but I suspect a bit more fragile, and a simple spring and screw hinge was just easier.
Maybe you will try use sniper Mosin 91/30 without optic ? Just for fun.
Is the reason that rifle in particular seems to have a lot of muzzle flash on most shots and then virtually none on others because it's displacing the oxygen in the atmosphere in front of the gun enough that the hot gasses coming out of the barrel don't have any oxygen in the air to ignite and cause a flash? If not then why the inconsistency in muzzle flash?
No. It's that sometimes the muzzle flash falls between frames on the camera so doesn't get captured. I can assure you that it flashes like a mad thing every time.
What would one with matching numbers in average condition be worth today? Joe
Does anyone know if one of these carbine models have had a straight bolt handle?
The three shot model that is.
ulf lyng None of the French pattern carbines did but I seem to recall that Greek used ones might have. Something to investigate.
@@thebotrchap Thought so. Didn't know a "Greek connection" though.
Or maybe some had their bolts swaped' at some point. But the serial nr should show i guess....
Thx for a quick answer
No, but all of the Indochinese and Senegalese Berthiers and the first 50,000 1907/15 rifles all had turned down bolt handles.
I've just seen iraqveteran8888's video on the M16 long rifle, would the straight bolt handle have helped?
Quite the opposite...
you guys are cute together, good for you. looks fun!
What ammo were u using
Have you ever considered trying a Mannlicher Carcano Mad minute?
406GUNNERS Yes we have. I have an 1891 rifle and a good number of clips, but I need to gather reloading components since the PPU ammo we get here is awful.
@@thebotrchap That would be super cool to see! Good luck on that.
But is it as bad as a Mosin?
Sorta kinda.
Is there any possible to should some 10 round 89k ?
The Mosin M91/30 would be slower for sure
I can see Chap is more of a fan than Bloke
Colonel Ed I think we all know where Bloke’s loyalty lays in terms of bolt action rifles 😉😬
Indeed. My loyalty is with fast and accurate. Neither of which apply here! :D
@@BlokeontheRange can’t expect a Brit to use a French gun properly now can we? 🇬🇧
8mm Lebel vs Mauser? Which one is better?
Mauser. Rimless, better shape for feeding in box magazines, and (slightly) more powerful.
Was this gun intentionally bad? Bad bolt placement, bad feeding system, way too light, and bad cartridge. Why? I will say the sights look real nice
Ray Remember it was initially for cavalry, so not for troops expected to shoot a lot. Also with nice new clips the feed system works very smoothly like any other Mannlicher system. My clips are probably 90-100 years old and were never designed to be reused. It is a product of it’s time. They had no choice in calibre of course. Recoil is actually not that bad, especially with a few layers of wool uniform like they had back then. A few rounds with just a T-shirt would smart though...
The Chap oh, ok
I wanna see a Moist-Nugget Modello 91/30 :D
Some background from Forgotten Weapons
czcams.com/video/iM0BCU7IAS8/video.html
Maybe it was dropped in 1914 and in 1939.....
Ancient Mariner Probably when the soldier took a bullet, grenade shard or shrapnel like the 1,000,000+ others in WW1 or 23500+ in WW2 🙄
The Chap
Point taken.....😠
The Chap
I meant point taken before technology screwed my reply up and fired an ND!
Nevermind. You're right I made a cheap shot at the frogs but the war was a massive waste of men on all sides and for no reason other than politicians and banks gaining. The bankers won and still control Europe today. They pull the strings on puppet goverments/federations to be....
Jeez, you have to pull your head so far back to work the action.
Bruce Mason Generally at the time in continental Europe there was no doctrine of working the bolt at the shoulder so it wasn’t an important consideration.
It's not too bad. Maybe that's just from my lack of experience with bolt action rifles and not having much comparison to proper rifles, but my Berthier seems just fine and not quite as bad as they make it out to be (And it's much worse for wear). Recoil is terrible though!
shot less than 2 clips.. a 1886 Level could have done it as well.
Poor clips and operator error not the guns fault...
@@DelGTAGrndrs those Swiss Britons can't stand the French superiority... :-D
Chap, does fireball=Elan?
Alistair Shaw Probably more fireball = ego/morale boost
Also are you guys twins? Brothers? Anything else?
Nitrate No blood relation, also it’s strange that two good friends can’t just be just that without people making snide assumptions 🙄 We are just bezzers 🍻
I have got a question that I didn’t find an answer about it. I have .38 special ammo from a company called Hirtenberger, got it from grandfather, I wanna know anything about this ammo since I didn’t find on the web any answers but that it is from Austria from a company that is out of business. Anyone knows about it, please share.
Ta
maybearrogant de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirtenberger
In German but with translator you should have most of the history. It is now a brand name of RUAG.
You are the best.. cheers mate
maybearrogant No probs, glad to help.
An update after testing the ammo. Unfortunately it ruined the rifling of the revolver. I fired 50 bullets in colt python and there we go.
maybearrogant Bugger :-( I fired a good number Hirtenberger 9mm Steyr through a Steyr Hahn without any issues a while back.
i dont think this carbine is intended to do "rolling fire"-It was guiven as an accessory weapon for gunners,machine gun firers and cavalry and eventualy "coup de mains" or recognition-So,short firing exchanges where more than five shots not needed and not necessary to open the latch