I started rowing at the age of 20 in '97, and all the training was as per your 3rd eight's training. Jurgen Grobler, from East Germany, became the British rowing coach in '91 and his influence changed how rowers in the UK trained as a result.
Old rower here. What Stephan achieved was 1. superior capillary sprouting within muscle tissue. This means rate of O2 delivery and CO2 removal from muscle was superior. Further, heart muscle hypertrophy is dependent on venous return rate. With more capillaries within the working muscle of rowing, venous return would be higher than by other training methods. Higher venous return= higher cardiac output. So Stephan achieved a higher lactate thresholds via his training. Doing HIIT most of the time does not sprout muscle capillaries as efficiently. 2. Further, with denser capillary networks within muscle, recovery rate is higher. 3. higher volumes of HIIT damages tissue more, so recovery demands are higher, ergo slower. Through a season with heavy HIIT training, the body is spending more time in distress, with weakened immune system and other fatigue factors. Essentially, volume of blood delivered to working muscle is underrated by hot heads.
So basically to improve endurance it all comes down to lactate threshold and endurance ride. Scientific literature supports this for masters athletes since vo2 is genetic limiter. In laymans term, train super easy or super hard plus technique work and periodization and resistance training. But then youtuber coach try to complicate these proven methods time and time again. Marketing sells coaching plan.
He also focused on technique. My coach always talked about unconscious competence, because when you have upped your rate to +40spm for the last few hundred you just want everything to happen automatically
@@cyclingsfatsuma9808 - Every serious competitor focuses on technique, otherwise it is junk training. - Was it better technique that made Stephan's crews uncompetitive at the beginning of the season?
@@helicart no but better technique likely made them successful at the end, allowing them to maximise the benefits of physical training. And cam only focussed on the latter
Having been a professional rowing coach for 20+ years I must say his approach is pretty normal in rowing. These days most coaches do put in some higher intensity work in the early part of the season but most will be foundation. Technique is one reason for that, it is much easier to work on skill at a lower stroke rate. Similar to learning how to work before you start to run. If you have not rowed before it is difficult to appreciate how technical the sport is but being fit and strong means nothing if you cannot row well. Or in other words, a crew going 10 centimetres further per stroke due to superior skill will easily beat most crews which will be physically superior.
Glad to hear that changes are happening. But I started to row at undergrad in 2014 and winter season was 2 heavy lifts, 4 hard intervals sessions on ergs, and 1-2 easier ergs per week + cross training. Recipe for disaster. Moved on to club rowing after graduation and things were much more balanced / periodized. I still get the feeling that many rowing programs are very old school, row until you drop. At least compared to some other sports.
@@matthiaswuest7271 Each coach has their own approach and we all think we know best, which is a problem. I try to look at science and best practices and as a result I like to think that I know best :)
Yeah I sometimes here some of the older coaches talking about how power is everything in rowing. Well we saw how that turned out for Washington against Brookes.
@@matthiaswuest7271 in my experience it depends how big the program/ club is If a system is huge they usually work slowly focusing on big milage “developing athletes” being the goal If a system is small they crush their athletes in the hopes of “squeezing diamonds” to find the freaks that survive the brutal programs and go on to win
This is my favorite kind of story. So wonderful to hear about people who are committed to truth rather than other peoples opinions. Where did Stefan go from there?
As a teen I raced sprint race canoes. I was the smallest in my age group and my coach always said work on technique, work on cardio, the day will come when I had the muscles. When I had the muscle I also had the technique, I blew past everyone who previously beat me. I became known for my great endurance and everyone wanted to copy my technique. What that German coach was doing is what I still think is important in cycling. So important to have that base of cardio.
I remember watching the sprint canoe racers training on Mirror Lake in Lake Placid (technically it is in North Elba) while there for a USCF Cat 3 training/development camp (WAY back when they even gave a s**t about lower than Elite level riders) in 1986. They were impressive in their speed and power. ;) We stayed in one of the dorms used for/by the competitors in the 1980 Winter games.
@@LS1conehead I did get to Lake Placid twice, once as a friendly race between Canadian Junior National Development team (I was on) and the US National team back in the late 80's, probably the same year (86), as in 87 I raced at the worlds. Still have the silver medal I won in C-1 1000 meter. Second time I was coaching for Canadian juniors at an international regatta in the late 90's.
Thanks for sharing that. Quite an arc to that story with everyone questioning his methods before the final races. It could almost be a book or a movie script.
There's no doubt that a few Stephan's have been sacked before the coup de grace could be delivered. Sacking coaches has become its own sport these days.
Hope everyone is doing well out there. As part of sharing this story I though it would be awesome to have Stephan on, to interview him about this 1997 experience. I tried everything I could, including tracking him down and messaging over Facebook, but unfortunately to no avail. If this video somehow finds its way too him, I'd love to do a follow up discussion on this topic! Cheers, Cam
@@scotchsoda3165 certainly a factor. I remember certain people were overlooked for this reason as it adds weight to the boat! However, not sure the impact in comparison to say hill climbing and weight as a cyclists. Cam
Hi Cam, I might be stating the obvious here, but have you tried to find an email address of Stephan? I’m guessing his Facebook profile was private (as we Germans are very fond of our privacy) and unless you can tell from recent activity that the account is still in use, there’s also a good chance he abandoned it. If you can manage to find an email of him or maybe one from a rowing club he currently is or used to recently work for, the chances of reaching him would be much higher. I find that in Germany unless you see someone or a club or whatever post very regularly, trying to contact them via socials is often more miss than hit. Loved this anecdote btw and hope Stephan will get back in touch with you! x
I'm not sure, if this has become the standard since then or if it already was, but here in Germany this is the "normal" way to train (in rowing). In fact, our regattas early in the year are at a 6k distance, as opposed to the normal 2k, because everybody is training with long sessions and long efforts, so the 6k is better at determining who will be better
My junior rowing coaches followed the same training as your German coach. All base early then high intensity later. They didn't care about early races they wanted us at our fastest late in the season for nationals and stotesbury cup. And you know what they got results.
Because rowing has such a large technical component the approach of Stephan is actually pretty standard. There is little benefit in doing much threshold or lactate tolerance prior to the Christmas holidays. The 10 weeks prior would have been January rowing camp so some specific preparation to start develop race specific energy systems, as well as cognitive motor patterns and neural pathways would have commenced. I won’t go into why winning the 3rd eight is easy when you have good depth in your senior squad, which BGS clearly did at the time with three competitive senior crews. Because cycling does not have the same technical component I would be cautious in drawing too many inferences from your experience with Stephan. Miles do make champions but not junk miles. There needs to be purpose in the training modality and every session should be associated with a clear physiological stimulus and the appropriate amount of recovery to ensure the desired physiological adaptation. All I can say is that spending some time training at race pace is absolutely critical and rolling along with no purpose is just practicing going slowly….
@@petor95 it depends at what level you are training. If you are an amateur rider training once per day then this is fine as you need to recover. The key is to ensure a level of specific preparation as you come into race season. I would also say that if one of your hard sessions can be in a competitive environment that would be ideal. Amateurs spend way too much time training and not enough time competing as you obviously learn skills that go beyond the physiological adaptation goals you may have
Nice to hear that a German coach helped your rowing team taking an approach that was different to all the others. That takes clever thinking, courage and confidence! I also live in another than my home continent and bringing some “unconventional” approach to the people here. And yes, that’s not always a winner, straight from day one.
Arthur Lydiard of New Zealand pioneered this approach in the 1960s with Peter Snell running 10 hours a week training for 800m and 1500m. It was then picked up by German rowing coached in the 1970s. Keeping lactate low during development to ensure a strong base so the body can focus on building lots of blood vessels throughout the muscle tissue. Then more strength training. Then interval training. Then race specific peaking. Very important for young athletes, high school and college. Everyone needs at least one coach like Stefan, early in their career.
Loved this story! I learned to coach this way several years ago at my student rowing club in Amsterdam and it has been the basis of our training programs throughout the years. By the time races start to matter, my crews were racing for medals :)...
Had a similar experience in UK but our school vs. others, instead of intra-club. A lot was learnt from Czech and E German approaches so maybe that’swhere Stephan learnt it from.
My uncle won silver in the Empire games, (now Commonwealth). and the Kings Cup. Loved this vlog. Cyclist years ago, rode there training rides in a 66 inch gear at a steady pace. Their quality rides were the race itself
Great video. Like a couple of others on here, I have similar experiences when rowing at what is one of the UK’s most recognised rowing schools, during the late 80s/90s. 7-8 training sessions a week, competitions every weekend etc. It was absolutely the most enjoyable experience I’ve had from a sporting perspective. So professional despite only being 16/17/18 years of age. Our coaching staff comprised one Olympic Gold medalist and a number of GB coaches, so we learnt a huge amount. But it was interesting watching the growth of GB rowing under another (East) German, Jurgen Grobler, who brought so many of the techniques you mentioned to the British set up, and look where it went over the next 20 years culminating in 2012.
Hiit Training is way more fun than long and strong. However, one google search revealed that Stephan Muhlenberg was head coach at the cathedral school townsville and retired in 2021.
Enjoyable story. I kept waiting for the punchline ... and Stefan went back to Germany and became head of rowing and his team won a boat load ( literally) of Olympic gold medals and World Titles .......
in the late '60s as a school boy athletics and harrier runner, we has Long Slow Distance as a new training method . LSD was much as you describe: build a base fitness without overtraining or injury, then add speed work later.
It works. Chris Carmichael was correct in his assertion: if you are already fit or have been an elite athlete HIT is the best choice for a workout program with minimal time to train. I understand that rowing is a bit different but in my own experience HIT will get me back to a high level pretty quickly.
Great video. Eric Murray also promotes the 80/20 approach. Build that engine with patience. You must have patience being a Crows supporter. Was Charlie Walsh involved in the Crows premierships?
Stephan, I have a feeling that he may have just left coaching at The Cathedral School in Townsville, the school has been a powerhouse for years under his coaching. Hope this helps you track him down.
Fun but probably little-known fact for mainstream public. The best way to improve VO2max is doing a lot of high volume, low intensity aerobic base sessions. You don't achieve it by floggin yourself with heroic "VO2max" workouts. It's common misconception. What you achieve by those is anaerobic capacity (built upon existing aerobic base) and neuromuscular adaptations. It's only the icing on the cake of 5-6 minutes power. Improving an actual VO2max takes a lot of time and patience.
Very interesting comments on the importance of form. It can be learned by spinning in easy gears. The faster the spin, the faster the heart rate and delivery system, ergo, a stronger aerobic base. It has everything to do with transferring strength from the fast twitch anaerobic muscle fibers to the slow twitch aerobic muscle fibers, the ones that go the distance. Stay on top of the gear at 90 rpm. When the going gets tough, no fast twitch jamming. Do purposeful, precise movements each muscle group following through in sequence, "on form," maximizing slow twitch aerobic fibers. Losing form is always the kiss of death. Never lose form. Notice the pros who stay on form are always the winners? In fast twitch excursions such as a sprint, they'll always outlast those who've already gone so far into anaerobic, they've lost their form.
This story is a bit like the tortoise and the hare. Stefan the coach was right all along,build a good foundation ,strong walls before adding the roof (HIIT) !! Going too fast too often is a mistake early in prep . 80/20 0r 70/30 is about right. P.S ; I did rowing back in the 80's and had to gain a lot of muscle weight being the lightest on the squad. I used the Concept 2 in the gym. Switched to mtb in 1990 and road in 1996. These days I have a Water rower at home for cross training ,really good for core and all round condition.
wow.u guys were using a cambered Buffalo bar in the 90's.. thats amazing Australia was the place to be to study sport science in the 90's.. just amazing stuff.
I LOVE the 'physicality' of rowing, and how it can actually improve one's upper body and core strength (and yes quads/etc. in the legs as well) and endurance, for cycling. But it is a beautiful sport in it's own right as well, and one of the few I even bother to watch in the Summer Games besides track and field ('athletics' to many of you), and of course the road/TT and especially TRACK cycling. If I were wealthy, I would buy a single shell and go out on Lake Carnegie here in Princeton/Montgomery every chance I could get (or all of the Princeton, Rider, etc. crews would allow me to use 'their' facility). ;)
Are you familiar with the training strategy of Nils van der Poel? He published his training schedule after winning Olympic Gold on the kings distance, 10 km. He focusses on low intensity base training for the better part of his sessions, by biking for hours at relatively low power. It sounds very similar to this coach Stefans ideas!
Woohoo...I too was a champion rower in high school ... left school in yr 11 only to return so that I could continue rowing..lol..not yo do school work..loved it
also sounds like Stefan was using a slightly General Physical Preparedness approach, which would make sense as a German. Really build that basic engine, *then* focus on specifics towards the event.
Really looks like all of the research is pointing towards this. As I age, I'm interested in serving the god of longevity over the god of performance so I like this approach.
Sounds like Arthur Lydiards. technique for Peter Snell who won Olympic 1500 & 800m golds in the 60s. His revolution was running long distances to train for short races to build strength
The way Stephan trained sounds a lot like here in Britain. But it’s worth adding that in the late 90s/early 00s there was still too much of a tradition of pseudo scientific technique work and a complete lack of consistent and specific physiological training. Loads of rowers still live in dream land, meanwhile other endurance athletes focus on Threshold sessions etc. Any half decent runner knows to avoid ‘junk’ miles but a lot of old school rowers think punishing themselves with long painful steady state sessions is important.
It's so funny to watch all these highly educated and informed trainers today and have them explain what exactly was wrong with my training even 10 years ago. I wish all this knowledge was more broadly available back then, instead of the bullshit gym talk that got me into 100 % every session mentality.
Yep, my intro to rowing in 2014 was going hard on 80% of sessions, most days felt like a race effort. Falls mainly on the coaches I had but also on a toxic culture of "go hard or go home"
To be honest, a lot of this info was available decades ago, but it was buried in a library. Hikers figure this out all the time: when you are used to going longer, you usually end up in front by the end. It's almost a bit old-school "never quit" attitude, but it sounds like all the coach did was force the team to put in the hours to outlast anyone, while keeping their regimen at a survivable intensity. Don't sweat it though, I knew all this stuff and still didn't believe it till I hit my 30s and needed to adapt or ruin myself.
@@dustynbutler4375 Yeah... I think most pros do pyramidal except for a few that do very well with vo2max and anaerobic efforts. It also depends if you measure it week-to-week, month-to-month or year-to-year. Some pros always do sweetspot in the base while some only do LT1 and some do vo2max already in january.
God...having that many 8+s from a single school. Mine only ever managed one men's Novice 8+, a JV 4x, and a Varsity 4x. Sometimes with a Varsity 2x (usually the lightweights) if no one was out sick. I remember doing the numbers from my high school rowing time, and I literally had more days through the year on the water than days where I didn't row. And that's *not* counting winter conditioning in the gym. All of the coaches I had through that time (summer and fall were county programs, not individual schools, so coaches varied more) focused on technique first and foremost. With the logic that it's much easier for a technical boat to get strong, than for a boat relying on brute strength to get technical.
Yes true, but many recreational and amateur road cyclists that watch these videos don't know much about it, so it's the subtle message that hopefully gets through.
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 100% correct.... I went through my own learning curve on too much intensity many years ago by just racing too much and training too hard all the time. You can do it for a while (some longer than others) but it hurts you in the end...no exceptions.
How was it that the kids from the 3rd and second boat didn’t make it up into the first boat? When I was rowing the coach was always switching us between boats mid practice until a week or two before the big race.
Reminds me of my volleyball coaching (beginners, 11-12 year olds). I always focused on correct form rather than using tricks to win. We always did way better than expected in the playoffs! Not at this level, of course...
Isn't this rationale kind of aimed at peaking for an A Race. As you know in Australia we dont really have an off-season per se, it's the middle of winter and I'm racing crits in 8 degree weather! I try to "polarize" my training by racing once a week, which I more or less class as a HIIT sesdion, I'll then do two more HIIT sessions and everything else is zone 2
Great story. Thanks for sharing. From back in that era it wasn’t called 80/20 but early big base development and periodization focused a lot more. Particularly around the HR monitor and then power meter. For rowing was anyone using a HR monitor then?
@@matthewthompson6402 same here. I got my first HRM for my birthday my sophomore year at the UW in 1994, and trained with it through the end of my national team career through 2004. But maybe they weren’t common in prep school rowing at that time.
Use of heart rate monitors by amateur cyclists and runners was widespread 10 years before the events he describes. I expect rowers of that era also knew about them.
what I find funny is how the high school coaches were berating someone that used to train a national team in probably the most competitive nation for rowing
How can adapt this training method fo the bike if you can only ride between 6-10 hours max per week due to family and work commitments? Would this amount of time split across 3 or 4 rides allow you to build up enough base fitness from the 'low and slow' method? Currently I try to go as fast as I can on every ride which allows me to cover as much distance as possible given I only have limited time available but seem to have hit a bit of a plateau and can't seem to break the 35 km/h avg. figure.
My problem with base load training is that when I go on long slow paced runs my heart rate is already up.in zone 3 when I have finished tying my shoe laces. And I'm not exaggerating either. My heart rate just never stays low enough for proper base load training. I would probably just have to walk to have e reasonably low heart rate, but my heart rate just tends to be high. So what can I do about that? I've been doing extrem multi sport endurance race of 24h and more the last 5 years, so I do have plenty of endurance, but I wonder if I could get better by training at low intensity somehow?
This reminds me of my old sports teacher. He was actually a rower and would’ve gone (and judging by their season have probably won) to los angeles but then the boycott happened. He told us about cycling your training. There are short cycles of effort and supercompensation, basically building glycogen storages and long cycles in especially aerobic fitness. In east germany they would often cycle an athletes training specifically so they would be in their best shape when the olympics rolled around. Of course they often cycled certain substances along the way but that is another matter.
@@neilmckenna236 it’s a great frame, my only concern with it is the carbon layup is quite thin. So anyone over 90kgs I’d have some question marks. But if you’re under that happy days.
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 yes, seen the carbon expert say that the carbon was thin but uniform. Im 68kg on a good day and 71kg on a bad. Really appreciate you getting back to me! 👍🙏
Technique before physical strength should be coached a lot more in other sports. There's no point being an athlete in competitive team sports if you don't know what you're doing. :P
Hey, that's just the perfect motivation for their high intensity speed work, once they are ready for it, of course. ;) How fast can those bumpy backed reptiles move through the water again??
Ah yes! Our proud rowing 8er. It's funny if you think about what sports we germans are good at or what - seemingly - can make the difference. One example would be ski cross-country. Not really good at it, but give us a gun on the back and call it Biathlon and we become world class. Or cycling. except some - doped - outliers, we are rather mediocre on a bicycle. But put one of us on a round racing track, going round and round and round and call it keirin or track, which the german word for is "verfolgung" as in persecution, and we will be a world class contender. The rowing 8er is special though, since it mirrors the german mindset almost perfectly and our deeply enbeded longing for strong leadership and the old glory days. There you have eight teutonic, hulking man, rowing with their backs towards where they are going undable to see ahead and ONE little man in the back, screaming at them and telling them where to go - we become unbeatable. and before some people reply to this with foam in the corners of their mouth in virtuous indignation , I shall add a *nudge nudge*
Wonder why they could not add a strain gauge into a rowing oar? Presume too many variables to manage… Great video you got through this middle age cyclist. 😀
@@CarlForde yeah, but the power you out in the chain is different from the power you can put in the water. There’s no missing on the erg, but if you have a poor catch and are sucking a ton of bubbles through the water, your effective power will be way lower. Ergs are only a marginally useful way to figure out who can move a boat.
@@stiffjalopy4189 They do have a few different systems to measure slip and wash, as well as power (watts) on the water now, via the Peach system, NK EmPower oarlock, or SmartOar.
Everyone is different Alex, but the analytics and comments are suggesting people enjoyed the story that lead into the strategy. But thanks for the comment
Cyclists are a strange bunch, they think that going flat out 5 times a week will improve their performance. Most other sports worked out there is a better way decades ago.
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 IF Thomas was referring to cross country RUNNING and not skiing, we were doing alternating days of long slow distance and then quarter mile intervals on a cinder track (at about a 60 second pace) way back in high school, in the early '70s (and our coach was not particularly technically savvy, nor scientific at all). This was in prep for a 2.5 mile race.
Awesome video cam, brought back awesome memories.
I can confirm this is all factually correct. 3 seat 3rd VIII ‘97
*inserts 3rd seat jokes*
On a serious note, congrats.
@@Lerotron hahaha i did catch a few crabs from time to time
Do you know the last name of Stephan?
I started rowing at the age of 20 in '97, and all the training was as per your 3rd eight's training. Jurgen Grobler, from East Germany, became the British rowing coach in '91 and his influence changed how rowers in the UK trained as a result.
Interesting to hear Colin, thanks for sharing on the thread
"Long and Strong" for building base fitness has been known in cycling forever. We've always called it LSD - Long Steady Distance.
Old rower here.
What Stephan achieved was
1.
superior capillary sprouting within muscle tissue.
This means rate of O2 delivery and CO2 removal from muscle was superior.
Further, heart muscle hypertrophy is dependent on venous return rate.
With more capillaries within the working muscle of rowing, venous return would be higher than by other training methods.
Higher venous return= higher cardiac output.
So Stephan achieved a higher lactate thresholds via his training.
Doing HIIT most of the time does not sprout muscle capillaries as efficiently.
2.
Further, with denser capillary networks within muscle, recovery rate is higher.
3.
higher volumes of HIIT damages tissue more, so recovery demands are higher, ergo slower. Through a season with heavy HIIT training, the body is spending more time in distress, with weakened immune system and other fatigue factors.
Essentially, volume of blood delivered to working muscle is underrated by hot heads.
So basically to improve endurance it all comes down to lactate threshold and endurance ride. Scientific literature supports this for masters athletes since vo2 is genetic limiter. In laymans term, train super easy or super hard plus technique work and periodization and resistance training. But then youtuber coach try to complicate these proven methods time and time again. Marketing sells coaching plan.
He also focused on technique. My coach always talked about unconscious competence, because when you have upped your rate to +40spm for the last few hundred you just want everything to happen automatically
@@cyclingsfatsuma9808
- Every serious competitor focuses on technique, otherwise it is junk training.
- Was it better technique that made Stephan's crews uncompetitive at the beginning of the season?
@@helicart no but better technique likely made them successful at the end, allowing them to maximise the benefits of physical training. And cam only focussed on the latter
Having been a professional rowing coach for 20+ years I must say his approach is pretty normal in rowing. These days most coaches do put in some higher intensity work in the early part of the season but most will be foundation. Technique is one reason for that, it is much easier to work on skill at a lower stroke rate. Similar to learning how to work before you start to run. If you have not rowed before it is difficult to appreciate how technical the sport is but being fit and strong means nothing if you cannot row well. Or in other words, a crew going 10 centimetres further per stroke due to superior skill will easily beat most crews which will be physically superior.
Same in Sprint Kayak.
Glad to hear that changes are happening. But I started to row at undergrad in 2014 and winter season was 2 heavy lifts, 4 hard intervals sessions on ergs, and 1-2 easier ergs per week + cross training. Recipe for disaster.
Moved on to club rowing after graduation and things were much more balanced / periodized.
I still get the feeling that many rowing programs are very old school, row until you drop. At least compared to some other sports.
@@matthiaswuest7271 Each coach has their own approach and we all think we know best, which is a problem. I try to look at science and best practices and as a result I like to think that I know best :)
Yeah I sometimes here some of the older coaches talking about how power is everything in rowing. Well we saw how that turned out for Washington against Brookes.
@@matthiaswuest7271 in my experience it depends how big the program/ club is
If a system is huge they usually work slowly focusing on big milage “developing athletes” being the goal
If a system is small they crush their athletes in the hopes of “squeezing diamonds” to find the freaks that survive the brutal programs and go on to win
This is my favorite kind of story. So wonderful to hear about people who are committed to truth rather than other peoples opinions. Where did Stefan go from there?
Stefan was recently coach at The Cathedral School in townsville, NQ, its crazy to hear this story about him!
As a teen I raced sprint race canoes. I was the smallest in my age group and my coach always said work on technique, work on cardio, the day will come when I had the muscles. When I had the muscle I also had the technique, I blew past everyone who previously beat me. I became known for my great endurance and everyone wanted to copy my technique. What that German coach was doing is what I still think is important in cycling. So important to have that base of cardio.
I remember watching the sprint canoe racers training on Mirror Lake in Lake Placid (technically it is in North Elba) while there for a USCF Cat 3 training/development camp (WAY back when they even gave a s**t about lower than Elite level riders) in 1986.
They were impressive in their speed and power. ;)
We stayed in one of the dorms used for/by the competitors in the 1980 Winter games.
@@LS1conehead I did get to Lake Placid twice, once as a friendly race between Canadian Junior National Development team (I was on) and the US National team back in the late 80's, probably the same year (86), as in 87 I raced at the worlds. Still have the silver medal I won in C-1 1000 meter. Second time I was coaching for Canadian juniors at an international regatta in the late 90's.
Thanks for sharing that. Quite an arc to that story with everyone questioning his methods before the final races. It could almost be a book or a movie script.
Yes, I get goosebumps sometimes sharing the story! Stick to your guns. Cheers, Cam
Absolutely, made me think of "Hoosiers" with Gene Hackman.
There's no doubt that a few Stephan's have been sacked before the coup de grace could be delivered. Sacking coaches has become its own sport these days.
Hope everyone is doing well out there. As part of sharing this story I though it would be awesome to have Stephan on, to interview him about this 1997 experience. I tried everything I could, including tracking him down and messaging over Facebook, but unfortunately to no avail. If this video somehow finds its way too him, I'd love to do a follow up discussion on this topic! Cheers, Cam
Does body weight matter in rowing the same way it matters in cycling??
@@scotchsoda3165 certainly a factor. I remember certain people were overlooked for this reason as it adds weight to the boat! However, not sure the impact in comparison to say hill climbing and weight as a cyclists. Cam
Hi Cam, I might be stating the obvious here, but have you tried to find an email address of Stephan? I’m guessing his Facebook profile was private (as we Germans are very fond of our privacy) and unless you can tell from recent activity that the account is still in use, there’s also a good chance he abandoned it. If you can manage to find an email of him or maybe one from a rowing club he currently is or used to recently work for, the chances of reaching him would be much higher. I find that in Germany unless you see someone or a club or whatever post very regularly, trying to contact them via socials is often more miss than hit.
Loved this anecdote btw and hope Stephan will get back in touch with you! x
@@kitkat5153 Yes, I tried everything that I had access to. Many different types of Google searches too!
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 Bummer! Ah well, maybe he’ll find your message eventually. 🤞🏻
I'm not sure, if this has become the standard since then or if it already was, but here in Germany this is the "normal" way to train (in rowing). In fact, our regattas early in the year are at a 6k distance, as opposed to the normal 2k, because everybody is training with long sessions and long efforts, so the 6k is better at determining who will be better
In aus it is also how we train now
Same in Spain, long distance regattas in winter and 2K in spring/summer.
Same here in the UK, has been for ages.
My junior rowing coaches followed the same training as your German coach. All base early then high intensity later. They didn't care about early races they wanted us at our fastest late in the season for nationals and stotesbury cup.
And you know what they got results.
Because rowing has such a large technical component the approach of Stephan is actually pretty standard. There is little benefit in doing much threshold or lactate tolerance prior to the Christmas holidays. The 10 weeks prior would have been January rowing camp so some specific preparation to start develop race specific energy systems, as well as cognitive motor patterns and neural pathways would have commenced. I won’t go into why winning the 3rd eight is easy when you have good depth in your senior squad, which BGS clearly did at the time with three competitive senior crews.
Because cycling does not have the same technical component I would be cautious in drawing too many inferences from your experience with Stephan. Miles do make champions but not junk miles. There needs to be purpose in the training modality and every session should be associated with a clear physiological stimulus and the appropriate amount of recovery to ensure the desired physiological adaptation.
All I can say is that spending some time training at race pace is absolutely critical and rolling along with no purpose is just practicing going slowly….
Yes but would you advise saving race pace/intervals for twice a week. And 'easy' endurance base building runs for the rest of the week?
@@petor95 it depends at what level you are training. If you are an amateur rider training once per day then this is fine as you need to recover. The key is to ensure a level of specific preparation as you come into race season. I would also say that if one of your hard sessions can be in a competitive environment that would be ideal. Amateurs spend way too much time training and not enough time competing as you obviously learn skills that go beyond the physiological adaptation goals you may have
@@petor95 Most amateurs should do 2 or 3 ‘peak’ sessions a week maximum.
Nice to hear that a German coach helped your rowing team taking an approach that was different to all the others. That takes clever thinking, courage and confidence!
I also live in another than my home continent and bringing some “unconventional” approach to the people here. And yes, that’s not always a winner, straight from day one.
Arthur Lydiard of New Zealand pioneered this approach in the 1960s with Peter Snell running 10 hours a week training for 800m and 1500m. It was then picked up by German rowing coached in the 1970s. Keeping lactate low during development to ensure a strong base so the body can focus on building lots of blood vessels throughout the muscle tissue. Then more strength training. Then interval training. Then race specific peaking.
Very important for young athletes, high school and college. Everyone needs at least one coach like Stefan, early in their career.
Exactly, this is classic Arthur Lydiard.
Really cool video. I appreciate the old video recordings and storytelling :)
Loved this story! I learned to coach this way several years ago at my student rowing club in Amsterdam and it has been the basis of our training programs throughout the years. By the time races start to matter, my crews were racing for medals :)...
Love how you have a blinky light on your fly road bike! Thx for the story underscoring how the base training followed by peaking strategy can work.
Cheers Ron
Tech | Endurance | Speed - as a swimmer myself, this method works every time
Had a similar experience in UK but our school vs. others, instead of intra-club. A lot was learnt from Czech and E German approaches so maybe that’swhere Stephan learnt it from.
My uncle won silver in the Empire games, (now Commonwealth). and the Kings Cup. Loved this vlog.
Cyclist years ago, rode there training rides in a 66 inch gear at a steady pace. Their quality rides were the race itself
63-67 inches, winter, early months. Only exception was if temperature went over 50°s.
Great video. Like a couple of others on here, I have similar experiences when rowing at what is one of the UK’s most recognised rowing schools, during the late 80s/90s. 7-8 training sessions a week, competitions every weekend etc. It was absolutely the most enjoyable experience I’ve had from a sporting perspective. So professional despite only being 16/17/18 years of age. Our coaching staff comprised one Olympic Gold medalist and a number of GB coaches, so we learnt a huge amount. But it was interesting watching the growth of GB rowing under another (East) German, Jurgen Grobler, who brought so many of the techniques you mentioned to the British set up, and look where it went over the next 20 years culminating in 2012.
Hiit Training is way more fun than long and strong.
However, one google search revealed that Stephan Muhlenberg was head coach at the cathedral school townsville and retired in 2021.
Enjoyable story. I kept waiting for the punchline ... and Stefan went back to Germany and became head of rowing and his team won a boat load ( literally) of Olympic gold medals and World Titles .......
in the late '60s as a school boy athletics and harrier runner, we has Long Slow Distance as a new training method . LSD was much as you describe: build a base fitness without overtraining or injury, then add speed work later.
It works. Chris Carmichael was correct in his assertion: if you are already fit or have been an elite athlete HIT is the best choice for a workout program with minimal time to train. I understand that rowing is a bit different but in my own experience HIT will get me back to a high level pretty quickly.
Great video. Eric Murray also promotes the 80/20 approach. Build that engine with patience. You must have patience being a Crows supporter. Was Charlie Walsh involved in the Crows premierships?
Stephan, I have a feeling that he may have just left coaching at The Cathedral School in Townsville, the school has been a powerhouse for years under his coaching. Hope this helps you track him down.
Fun but probably little-known fact for mainstream public. The best way to improve VO2max is doing a lot of high volume, low intensity aerobic base sessions. You don't achieve it by floggin yourself with heroic "VO2max" workouts. It's common misconception. What you achieve by those is anaerobic capacity (built upon existing aerobic base) and neuromuscular adaptations. It's only the icing on the cake of 5-6 minutes power. Improving an actual VO2max takes a lot of time and patience.
Very interesting comments on the importance of form. It can be learned by spinning in easy gears. The faster the spin, the faster the heart rate and delivery system, ergo, a stronger aerobic base. It has everything to do with transferring strength from the fast twitch anaerobic muscle fibers to the slow twitch aerobic muscle fibers, the ones that go the distance. Stay on top of the gear at 90 rpm. When the going gets tough, no fast twitch jamming. Do purposeful, precise movements each muscle group following through in sequence, "on form," maximizing slow twitch aerobic fibers. Losing form is always the kiss of death. Never lose form. Notice the pros who stay on form are always the winners? In fast twitch excursions such as a sprint, they'll always outlast those who've already gone so far into anaerobic, they've lost their form.
This story is a bit like the tortoise and the hare. Stefan the coach was right all along,build a good foundation ,strong walls before adding the roof (HIIT) !! Going too fast too often is a mistake early in prep . 80/20 0r 70/30 is about right. P.S ; I did rowing back in the 80's and had to gain a lot of muscle weight being the lightest on the squad. I used the Concept 2 in the gym. Switched to mtb in 1990 and road in 1996. These days I have a Water rower at home for cross training ,really good for core and all round condition.
wow.u guys were using a cambered Buffalo bar in the 90's.. thats amazing Australia was the place to be to study sport science in the 90's.. just amazing stuff.
Love the adaption from Rowing to Cycling RCA. Great stuff, keep up the good videos
I LOVE the 'physicality' of rowing, and how it can actually improve one's upper body and core strength (and yes quads/etc. in the legs as well) and endurance, for cycling.
But it is a beautiful sport in it's own right as well, and one of the few I even bother to watch in the Summer Games besides track and field ('athletics' to many of you), and of course the road/TT and especially TRACK cycling.
If I were wealthy, I would buy a single shell and go out on Lake Carnegie here in Princeton/Montgomery every chance I could get (or all of the Princeton, Rider, etc. crews would allow me to use 'their' facility). ;)
Great story, Cam!
Are you familiar with the training strategy of Nils van der Poel? He published his training schedule after winning Olympic Gold on the kings distance, 10 km. He focusses on low intensity base training for the better part of his sessions, by biking for hours at relatively low power. It sounds very similar to this coach Stefans ideas!
another great video coach Cam! and you came out as a very good history teller! very engaging way to coach actually! ty for all the knowledge shared
I bet Stephan was from East Germany. Their rowing teams were monsters, and their coaching school was state of the art by late 70s.
Periodisation. Check out Arthur Lydiard's methods
Technique is so important, its about efficiency and minimum effort
The strategy sounds solid to me, and totally in line with the research of findings of folks like Stephen Seiler and Rob Sleamaker.
Woohoo...I too was a champion rower in high school ... left school in yr 11 only to return so that I could continue rowing..lol..not yo do school work..loved it
Nice one Susan, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for posting, sir. Follow the 80-20 rule every year.
Great video as always. I can see a Hollywood blockbuster in there somewhere. Christoph Waltz as Coach Steffan?? Rupert Grint as a young Cam ;-)
also sounds like Stefan was using a slightly General Physical Preparedness approach, which would make sense as a German.
Really build that basic engine, *then* focus on specifics towards the event.
Thank you for sharing!!
Really looks like all of the research is pointing towards this. As I age, I'm interested in serving the god of longevity over the god of performance so I like this approach.
That Training is used by Jack Danel's for the Running training books he made in 2000, 2003 and his last book in 2010.
Sounds like Arthur Lydiards. technique for Peter Snell who won Olympic 1500 & 800m golds in the 60s. His revolution was running long distances to train for short races to build strength
The way Stephan trained sounds a lot like here in Britain. But it’s worth adding that in the late 90s/early 00s there was still too much of a tradition of pseudo scientific technique work and a complete lack of consistent and specific physiological training. Loads of rowers still live in dream land, meanwhile other endurance athletes focus on Threshold sessions etc. Any half decent runner knows to avoid ‘junk’ miles but a lot of old school rowers think punishing themselves with long painful steady state sessions is important.
It's so funny to watch all these highly educated and informed trainers today and have them explain what exactly was wrong with my training even 10 years ago. I wish all this knowledge was more broadly available back then, instead of the bullshit gym talk that got me into 100 % every session mentality.
Yep, my intro to rowing in 2014 was going hard on 80% of sessions, most days felt like a race effort. Falls mainly on the coaches I had but also on a toxic culture of "go hard or go home"
To be honest, a lot of this info was available decades ago, but it was buried in a library.
Hikers figure this out all the time: when you are used to going longer, you usually end up in front by the end.
It's almost a bit old-school "never quit" attitude, but it sounds like all the coach did was force the team to put in the hours to outlast anyone, while keeping their regimen at a survivable intensity.
Don't sweat it though, I knew all this stuff and still didn't believe it till I hit my 30s and needed to adapt or ruin myself.
@@matthiaswuest7271 I even listened to a song with the title "Go hard or go home" by Roy Jones Jr. While lifting heavy for the 4th day a week :D
Cam Cam Cam - really really good
Cheers Clifford
Great stuff! That is why the Norwegians rule Ironman now, with their heavy focus on polarised training principles. Cheers
Interesting to hear that and cheers Chrissi
Seiler and Rønnestad sure did a lot of studies up there, so might well be.
The Norwegians do not do polarised training. They are far more pyramidal.
@@dustynbutler4375 yes, going into the prep for a race, but before that they focus on polarized training.
@@dustynbutler4375 Yeah... I think most pros do pyramidal except for a few that do very well with vo2max and anaerobic efforts.
It also depends if you measure it week-to-week, month-to-month or year-to-year.
Some pros always do sweetspot in the base while some only do LT1 and some do vo2max already in january.
God...having that many 8+s from a single school. Mine only ever managed one men's Novice 8+, a JV 4x, and a Varsity 4x. Sometimes with a Varsity 2x (usually the lightweights) if no one was out sick.
I remember doing the numbers from my high school rowing time, and I literally had more days through the year on the water than days where I didn't row. And that's *not* counting winter conditioning in the gym. All of the coaches I had through that time (summer and fall were county programs, not individual schools, so coaches varied more) focused on technique first and foremost. With the logic that it's much easier for a technical boat to get strong, than for a boat relying on brute strength to get technical.
This polarised mostly Z2 and some intensity approach is not new at all…it’s just new to everyone who bought the hype around HIT only
Yes true, but many recreational and amateur road cyclists that watch these videos don't know much about it, so it's the subtle message that hopefully gets through.
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 100% correct.... I went through my own learning curve on too much intensity many years ago by just racing too much and training too hard all the time. You can do it for a while (some longer than others) but it hurts you in the end...no exceptions.
@@occyman Same here. Major burn out - illnesses, mood swings, etc. before that. Taken four years to start thinking about cycling for fun again.
Zone 2 of 5 zone model?
How was it that the kids from the 3rd and second boat didn’t make it up into the first boat? When I was rowing the coach was always switching us between boats mid practice until a week or two before the big race.
Where i row, once the boats are made there is no switching untill next season. No question about it
1997 I had no aspirations of being an endurance athlete whatsoever. I did, however, get married that year, and it will be 25 years next Tuesday (5th).
Congrats on the 25 years Mark! Cam
Reminds me of my volleyball coaching (beginners, 11-12 year olds). I always focused on correct form rather than using tricks to win. We always did way better than expected in the playoffs! Not at this level, of course...
Hmmmm. In Western Australia we followed the same approach as the German coach on 1995/1997. Just shows that WA is much further ahead 🙃
The reason why the rowers of the City Mainz in Germany are one of the best in the World
Great story. Thanks for sharing. I wonder what the German coach is doing now?
Great story
Watch the movie: "Remember the Goal". It is a great coaching movie related to this principle.
Isn't this rationale kind of aimed at peaking for an A Race. As you know in Australia we dont really have an off-season per se, it's the middle of winter and I'm racing crits in 8 degree weather! I try to "polarize" my training by racing once a week, which I more or less class as a HIIT sesdion, I'll then do two more HIIT sessions and everything else is zone 2
Great story. Thanks for sharing. From back in that era it wasn’t called 80/20 but early big base development and periodization focused a lot more. Particularly around the HR monitor and then power meter. For rowing was anyone using a HR monitor then?
No Robert, we didn't use them back then, although I know they're used now.
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 I was an elite oarsman in the late 90's / early 2000's and we trained using HR monitors.
@@matthewthompson6402 same here. I got my first HRM for my birthday my sophomore year at the UW in 1994, and trained with it through the end of my national team career through 2004. But maybe they weren’t common in prep school rowing at that time.
Use of heart rate monitors by amateur cyclists and runners was widespread 10 years before the events he describes. I expect rowers of that era also knew about them.
In 95/96 we had an Australian coach come over (to the UK) and had us training with HR monitors at school. Zones like AT1 UT1 etc.
what I find funny is how the high school coaches were berating someone that used to train a national team in probably the most competitive nation for rowing
Ah, another rower turned cyclist. Glad to see a fellow.
How can adapt this training method fo the bike if you can only ride between 6-10 hours max per week due to family and work commitments? Would this amount of time split across 3 or 4 rides allow you to build up enough base fitness from the 'low and slow' method?
Currently I try to go as fast as I can on every ride which allows me to cover as much distance as possible given I only have limited time available but seem to have hit a bit of a plateau and can't seem to break the 35 km/h avg. figure.
Look up Dr Stephen Seiler - I don't think he exactly invented polarization, but he certainly has 'written the book' on it.
Fully aware of Stephen! Don’t worry about that. Cheers
My problem with base load training is that when I go on long slow paced runs my heart rate is already up.in zone 3 when I have finished tying my shoe laces. And I'm not exaggerating either. My heart rate just never stays low enough for proper base load training. I would probably just have to walk to have e reasonably low heart rate, but my heart rate just tends to be high. So what can I do about that?
I've been doing extrem multi sport endurance race of 24h and more the last 5 years, so I do have plenty of endurance, but I wonder if I could get better by training at low intensity somehow?
Would appreciate it if you could film the boat races in higher-quality mate.
man, it's footage from 1997 or something like that. It's the best (without analog) quality you can hope for
@@leragib7513 yep thanks 🤙
Love rowing
I had to know there was some hidden reason I liked you so much! Turns out your a former rower like me 😉
This reminds me of my old sports teacher. He was actually a rower and would’ve gone (and judging by their season have probably won) to los angeles but then the boycott happened.
He told us about cycling your training. There are short cycles of effort and supercompensation, basically building glycogen storages and long cycles in especially aerobic fitness. In east germany they would often cycle an athletes training specifically so they would be in their best shape when the olympics rolled around.
Of course they often cycled certain substances along the way but that is another matter.
Have you read “how to skate a 10k” ? It might really interest you!
What about that Seka!!?? Desperate to hear your thoughts!!!!!
Coming in a month
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 im very tempted to get one but can't find any reviews etc anywhere 😕 🤔 👍
@@neilmckenna236 it’s a great frame, my only concern with it is the carbon layup is quite thin. So anyone over 90kgs I’d have some question marks. But if you’re under that happy days.
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 yes, seen the carbon expert say that the carbon was thin but uniform. Im 68kg on a good day and 71kg on a bad. Really appreciate you getting back to me! 👍🙏
Man, I thought you’ve had it (the bike) for ages. Anyway, good to see some fair review on Made in China products.
I'm just coming to terms with you being a Crows supporter...but I guess it's not Collingwood or Carlton at least!
Technique before physical strength should be coached a lot more in other sports. There's no point being an athlete in competitive team sports if you don't know what you're doing. :P
Go Crows!!
I'd come home from training mum would say dont drink all the milk
The Germans always beat ya. Greetings from a Dutchie ;)
Go the mighty mighty Crows!
hi just wondering when is your seka review coming
Soon, only just got the third rear wheel.
One question... Brighton Grammar -> Adelaide Crows...? Why!?
Moved to Melbourne in 1991 from Adelaide
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 makes sense :)
what was the coach name from Germany ???
"OK mates, we're going rowing. Weather report?"
"Check."
"River currents report?"
"Check."
"Crocodile report?"
"Um...no worries...?"
Hey, that's just the perfect motivation for their high intensity speed work, once they are ready for it, of course. ;)
How fast can those bumpy backed reptiles move through the water again??
I totally didn't read the title. I noticed the seka and assumed this story somehow leads to the bike's review...Im not very smart
Chopper John is why Stephan went back to Germany
Nice
Ah yes! Our proud rowing 8er. It's funny if you think about what sports we germans are good at or what - seemingly - can make the difference. One example would be ski cross-country. Not really good at it, but give us a gun on the back and call it Biathlon and we become world class.
Or cycling. except some - doped - outliers, we are rather mediocre on a bicycle. But put one of us on a round racing track, going round and round and round and call it keirin or track, which the german word for is "verfolgung" as in persecution, and we will be a world class contender.
The rowing 8er is special though, since it mirrors the german mindset almost perfectly and our deeply enbeded longing for strong leadership and the old glory days.
There you have eight teutonic, hulking man, rowing with their backs towards where they are going undable to see ahead and ONE little man in the back, screaming at them and telling them where to go - we become unbeatable.
and before some people reply to this with foam in the corners of their mouth in virtuous indignation , I shall add a *nudge nudge*
Wonder why they could not add a strain gauge into a rowing oar? Presume too many variables to manage… Great video you got through this middle age cyclist. 😀
rowing machines, aka erg machines, have strain gauges. Each person can be independently tested.
@@CarlForde yeah, but the power you out in the chain is different from the power you can put in the water. There’s no missing on the erg, but if you have a poor catch and are sucking a ton of bubbles through the water, your effective power will be way lower. Ergs are only a marginally useful way to figure out who can move a boat.
@@stiffjalopy4189 good points. The erg doesn't measure quality of technique.
@@stiffjalopy4189 They do have a few different systems to measure slip and wash, as well as power (watts) on the water now, via the Peach system, NK EmPower oarlock, or SmartOar.
7:08 to get past all the filler. You're welcome.
Everyone is different Alex, but the analytics and comments are suggesting people enjoyed the story that lead into the strategy. But thanks for the comment
Mike Mentzer
What wusses, we used to race over 2400m in eights and 1600m in fours in seventies at high school
It might be the river isn't long or wide enough rather than intestinal fortitude
Cyclists are a strange bunch, they think that going flat out 5 times a week will improve their performance.
Most other sports worked out there is a better way decades ago.
Carn the Crows! ;-)
Ol'mate: "Bloody hell mate, you have ripped off the script from a Hollywood movie master piece. tell the truth !".
That was the truth.
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 it’s ok , I CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH !
Its like the old tortoise and the hare story, nothing new under the sun.
1882
I thought the Seka was a shit bike, but you stil lhave it up?
Classic 90’s overtraining
100%
oh, so he simply followed the training of any decent cross-country coach...
Yes wasn’t like that back in 1997 though. Mostly flogging HIIT work
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 IF Thomas was referring to cross country RUNNING and not skiing, we were doing alternating days of long slow distance and then quarter mile intervals on a cinder track (at about a 60 second pace) way back in high school, in the early '70s (and our coach was not particularly technically savvy, nor scientific at all).
This was in prep for a 2.5 mile race.
moral of the story: hire a German