Where did the FEMININITY go? | Hollywood’s “strong female characters” (pt. 1)
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- #ringsofpower #disney #shehulk
Let's talk about modern Hollywood's "strong female characters".
Part 2: • Hollywood’s “strong fe...
intro: 00:00 - 00:42
What is a strong woman, according to Disney? 00:42 - 05:18
removed vulnerability: 05:18 - 07:10
unrelatable & no character growth 07:10 - 10:24 - Zábava
As a woman myself I can’t stand all of these new girl boss characters who are flawless, never have any lessons to learn and most annoyingly, arrogant to their male predecessors. I always end up rolling my eyes when they outdo them after no growth or training whatsoever. Studios are so afraid of offending feminist critics they can’t even allow them to be human. It’s so stupid and predictable af at this point
I really believe Riply from the Aliens movie is the best exsample of a strong female character.
She is tough but caring becoming a mother figure to the little girl Newt they find, and working with the marines to destroy the Aliens.
I think kids should feature more in the lives of these characters wether its a daughter or little sister or cousin doesn't matter as long as they can show some motherly affection to someone.
My fear is that big corporations, whose products are these characters, have absolutely no problem with loneliness and people failing to connect with each other. In fact, the more they are on their own, the more they will need said corporations, either for a job, or for information, or entertainment, or a product that would help them manage their loneliness or connect with someone else.
Plus, disconnected people cannot form coalitions and unite against you consistently
The flash forward to Wendy's future completely flies in the face of what Peter Pan is supposed to be about. He's named Pan after the prefix pan-, meaning everything. Children have the potential to grow up to be or do anything, but in order to grow up, you have to pick _one_ thing, and sacrifice that potential. That's why Peter and the lost boys never grow up. To show Wendy having a future where she grows up, _and_ succeeds at anything and everything she wants, directly tears down any metaphorical meaning that was baked into the story.
I've pretty much stopped watching US produced movies and TV shows altogether and only watching Indian/Korean media and Japanese anime right now. And let me tell you, It feels good to see actual human characters on the screen instead of robots with programmed emotions and motives, regardless what gender or race they have. I urge you guys to find any shows or movies you find interesting on internet that's not produced in US and give them a try. You'd feel like you've been wasting time getting mad for all the cringe BS made by Hollywood.
Same here!! Totally agree, Korean, and well most any foreign film.
I'm the same, I really don't watch any American shows or movies from the last few years, I've been watching Indian and Korean stuff like you said. It's so nice without the identity politics.
Hollywood writers always want to stop putting Female characters in a damsel in distress "Box", while putting them in a "Strong Female Character" box, I've seen actresses like Jenna Ortega and Elle Fanning complain about the strong Female trope.
Emily Blunt as well! I think she said, when she is send a script and there's a "strong female" she already knows she's gonna be bored.
@@dronesclubhighjinksHollywood is trying too hard to correct things in their movies so much, they've ended up over correcting.
@@Mih_Mai “Overcorrecting” is a very polite way to phrase it. They want to show men who’s boss, and they are so blatant that it’s ridiculous. The women characters have no arc at all. Just perfect at everything. How is anybody supposed to relate to that or like it?
As for how the women characters talk to men with such contempt - I’m struggling to think of older movies (going back to the dawn of the film industry in the 1910s) in which there were alpha male heroes who treated any of the female characters with so much disrespect. Nobody would have liked a hero who behaves like that. A man being deliberately disrespectful of, and contemptuous towards female characters would’ve been an indicator that he is the bad guy.
There are certainly many movies where a critic could say “according to our standards in 2023, this male hero is being very condescending to the women by saying “don’t worry your pretty little head about that“ or “no, you’re not driving the truck. That’s man’s work.””
In my opinion, those men were trying to be protective of women. They weren’t trying to upset them and tell them they’re incompetent losers, which is the message these “modern, strong” female characters are telling all men, whether they are fictitious, or whether they are in the audience.
These Hollywood people are standing on the shoulders of giants. Instead of being grateful for everything that man has built, which allows them to have this never-achieved-before-in-history standard of living, freedom, human rights, and these careers, want to snatch everything away from men while trashing what came before them.
@@dronesclubhighjinks well said bro💯💯
As a female star wars fan, Rey always rubbed me wrong as a "strong " protag. I preferred Padme and Leia much more, who are feminine, yet can still hold their own.
Especially with Padme, I loved how they enhanced her femininity and allowed her to express her character through fashion. Even in her combat outfits, they're fashionable and practical for the world she lives in. I also loved the romance between her and Anakin, and it felt romantic watching her feel safe in his arms, protected by a strong Jedi. Shes able to let down her guard and allow herself to feel vulnerable, soft, and feminine around him.
Rey? I roll my eyes thinking about her. As someone who LOVES costume design, I HATED her outfits in the sequels. They were so boring and weren't fashionable. They were already copying the OT, so I'm not sure why they didn't take notes from Leia's battle outfits, which are feminine and practical. Instead, Rey looks like she's wearing restaurant cleaning rags. I wonder if they moved away from more feminine and fashionable clothing to make her seem more "powerful," and like a "girlboss."
Beyond fashion and design choices, it felt weird to see her characterized in a way where she couldn't make mistakes. She seemed to be PERFECT at everything. I mean, shit, even the greatest Jedi to ever live, Anakin, took years to train, and even by the third film, he still had a long way to go. Rey? Automatically amazing at everything. She can use the force easily, fix things easily, complete Jedi training courses easily with barely any experience...Ugh.
Rey just feels like a male character disguised as a woman. Bleh, not a fan of her, and never will be. Padme and Leia are much better.
Rey could not even represtent as a disguised man. A well-written male character also needs development, a journey to overcome his weaknesses and mistakes, has to deal with them. Just take Maverick from Top Gun. Yes, he is technically an excellent fighter pilot in the beginning. But he has a huge weakness, which almost ruins his career. This character has such a fantastic and interesting development in his two movies (and Tom Cruise portrays him so perfectly, he is such a joy to watch). And he is still nice - and even there is is development in his character. This is what I personally want to see.
Or take Aragorn from the Peter Jackson trilogy. He also develops throughout and changes.
I really depise "modern, strong female characters" and refuse to watch them.
@@SandraOrtmann1976 your mention of Aragorn reminds me of how much I loved the female characters in LOTR movies as well. My absolute favorite being Galadriel: She is very feminine, but you can tell she's all powerful. She doesn't need to act manly to have a powerful vibe , especially in the mirror scene in the first movie, which gives me chills every time!!
"Let's presume we know what a woman is." Good joke 😁
Well said! Definitely a huge disconnect between the characters and us as an audience when there’s such a push towards stoicism. Look at Sarah Connor in T2. Awesome strong character but also very emotionally complex and imperfect, making her arc by the ending among the best of any leading lady in cinema
And also, that's not stoicism, that's the contrary to stoicism. Stoicism doesn't put emotions aside, it embrace emotions to assimilate and dominate them, not detachment, but understanding, it is us the true master of our emotions, not be dominated by them.
Sharon Stone in Total Recall is awesome. She fights Arnie and presents a threat to him physically - purely through guile and cunning. She obviously couldn't over power him. In today's movies they'd just have her match him blow for blow.
You're right with your analysis. These strong female characters don't appeal to women. I've been a feminist since the 1980ies, yet I don't see anything that promotes womanhood with these new movies or Series. I liked the female ghostbusters move, it was fun and an obvious parody. I liked "Brave" and "Moana". I enjoyed "Salt" with Angelina Jolie or "Tomb Raider". The supernatural fighting powers of those women are of course fantasy, but the story is fun. But none of those characters could ever serve as role model.
I am not aware of any current TV show that portraits women how we are, and showcases our unique strengths. Feminism was and still is necessary to fight for equal rights and freedom. There are still countries where women are not the true owner of their own bodies. The government interferes. Men interfere. But female freedom doesn't mean throwing femininity over board. It means a woman can choose to be a girly housewife or a manager. It means to embrace the differences between men and women. We're not two halfs that make a unit when joined. We're two wholes that become more when joined.
Very well explained, and I agree with you!
Seems like hijacking or coopting by a vocal minority of people who are either scorned, or lack values or just use the idea for their own personal material gains and nothing else
Great video! I really enjoy your analyses. I used to go to at least 2 movies a week, and love the SciFi/ fantasy genres , but I have no love for recent movies or TV shows with their depictions of modern “strong female characters” and the deconstruction of the tradition male heroes and icons. I look forward to your next video, I have some thoughts on the matter but I think I’ll wait until then to express them. Best wishes!
Another awesome and well spoken video. 😊 Why can't we have more role models like you.
Very good video and very well explained! I just have one little nitpick. 😉
It's just that every time I have personally met pirates, I have totally succeeded in taking charge of the situation and it didn't bother me at all that I was outnumbered 30 to one or that I haven't had any training at all because, of course, when I picked up the cutlass that was lying on the deck of the ship, I knew exactly what to do with it.
Just like the Little Mermaid, and Rey Skypatine, who had never even been on a ship in their entire lives, they could immediately steer it under intense weather conditions at peak stress.
Yep, that pretty much sums up what type of fictitious woman I am. 🤪
You are completely correct that these women are not even remotely relatable, and they seem to be various degrees of unlikable, with the Little Mermaid being near likable and the sociopath Guyladriel being the scariest and evillest of all including rop Sauron. I've heard people accuse the female writers, directors, showrunners of making self-insert characters or wish fulfillment/revenge fantasy characters:
Velma, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Kit in Willow, the princess in Witcher BO, Guyladriel (also Miriel and Bronwyn at a minimum), Rey, what the Helena from Indy 5, the teenage daughter in Ant-Man 3, various women in Wakanda Forever, etc.
The only story I can think of that had an obnoxious main character that I disliked for at least the first 2/3 of the movie was Pixar's Cars where the little red race car protagonist is so arrogant. He ended up coming into sharp contact with reality, and he learned from it, and by the end, I thought he was great! He made up for not only the physical (which he was court-ordered to), but also the emotional damage (voluntarily) he had caused to the -people- cars in Radiator Springs, and gave it the publicity it needed for the -people- cars from all over to visit and appreciate what a special place it was. Awwww 🥰
Thank you for the video and I'm really looking forward to part two! I hope you're doing well! 😍🙏🌸🌻
From a male perspective I can say that these current strong female characters are not good characters. The male audience pays subconsiosly attention how these female characters treat men. Does the female character humilate and disrespect the male co-lead? Does she dismiss any advice? Why is he still around her if she activly dislike s him? Why does this strong female character have such a problem with men? A male viewer doesn't root for a man hating female character.
Men only pay subconscious attention to how the female characters treat men? It's usually so glaringly in-our-face because the writers are very good at subtlety. 😂
Women can't stand these female characters either. And we hate seeing male characters treated like garbage for no reason other than their gender. Can Hollywood explain why having strong, female characters work together with strong male characters is no longer acceptable? These writers must be incredibly insecure.
Honestly, if high school girls were to write a story like this for an assignment, I would think they were being ridiculously immature. I would also wonder why they have such very negative attitudes towards male characters.
And I think I can prove that women don't like these shows or movies, because if women did like them, the viewership would be much higher, and there would be actual fans of the show or movie.
I looked up if there were actual fans of She-Hulk TV show, so I found a bunch of feminists on Reddit, who liked it on principle because it was a strong woman who was putting the men in their place. Out of 200 comments, not one person explained a scene she particularly liked or dialogue that was clever or anything specific. It's just the overall principle of "strong female put dumb men in their place" that they like.
Also, they assumed that everybody who did not like the show was a man who can't handle strong female characters. It didn't seem to occur to them that no actual women were watching the show either. Nor did it occur to them that the story was not constructed very well, the writers had no clue how to write courtroom scenes, that Jen came across as incompetent and unprofessional as a lawyer, and badly confused and insecure in her personal life. It made one wonder why on earth her career was so important if she is so bad at it. And why is she always insulting men, but desperately wants a man to have a long-term stable committed relationship with. 🤔
Hey this is a great video. I truly appreciate it!
perfect! and also so sad... some of the best franchises had female leads. kill bill...ok this is always over the top, but you can see in the flashback how hard she must train to get to where she is. next one: sarah connor, The Terminator, she was weak at the beginning, then killed a fucking Terminator dressed like Schwarzenegger...and evolved in the second movie. And of course Alan Ripley....Alien. What a Masterpiece. Everybody believes that this woman could kill a xenomorph. she was smart, courageous and still a good person. no plotarmour, no bullshit agenda, no girlboss. it was was perfect. sometimes desperate, sometimes full of courage. and thats what it made it so good. No superpower, no privilege. Just a person who have to fight a monster, and wants to survive. new tactics, new strategies, she is my favourite.
IMHO, Disney is no longer concerned with complex storytelling and character development, except as it pertains to pushing their agenda. They are ultra-feminist and woke.
Good video!!!
Excellent points!
Yet again you do a really interesting comment of the modern female character. The modern writers seem to being imposing their problems on the characters they write. A woman can still love a man and still and be a strong and interesting character. The one thing that not touched on is the lack of acting talent of a lot of these women.
My favorite strong female character would be Ada Wong from the Resident Evil games ❤
Resident evil has always had really awesome female characters. Ever since I was a young girl, I looked up to Jill Valentine!
@@thedancinghamsterqueen I don't mind Chris Redfield's sister she seems like a country girl 🗿💯
@@thedancinghamsterqueen person who I looked up to on Resident Evil would be HUNK the Grim Reaper
Being a guy, I'll say straight up that I miss the strong female characters that acted like women, like Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind, and Katheryn Hepburn's character in The African Queen. You also have Carrie Fisher playing Princess Leia and Pam Grier in the Foxy Brown movies. Ripley from Alien never acted like a girl but there was never any "MEN SUCK!" in her movies. And she kicked ass. The Mexican girl cop(I forget her name) that was part of the 4 man team in Predator 2 was a great example of a kick ass girl without pushing it. It was the one that the Predator spared her in the subway because she was pregnant.
In the espionage movies in the 90s and early 2000's, there were several movies where a woman was a high level person in charge of some spy agency, and what was nice about them was that the person in charge just happened to be a woman, that was it.
Today there's just way too much Helen Reddy in today's movies.
You're the woman of culture have a very God blessed day 👋
Another example can be Silvie in Loki Season 2
When I watched Ripley in Alien I saw a strong woman who didn’t act like she had to demean men to be strong. She just was. She was another charachter who happened to be female. Something totally lost on modern films.
Those in Hollywood who are apparently so resentful of criticism from CZcams creators like yourself should stop giving you so much material to work with!
I feel your hate & cringe for rings of pawer galadriel
That's something relatable 😂😂😂
❤❤ Best regards to you Lady
I'd disagree with the frost troll criticism as Galadriel, woman or not, is canonically one of the strongest beings in middle earth. But 100% they missed the mark with her character journey. From the start it seemed that she was too blinded by vengeance to accept help or work with others, which set up her arc to be able to eventually think clearly and work with others to a common goal. But making that moment of reflection come after she was proved right in her quest was just strange. I feel like someone started with the right idea for her story in ROP then it got so muddled along the way that they forgot what her arc was supposed to be. That or there were far too many cooks in the kitchen during the process.
Unfortunately I think the actress is getting a lot of hate for her performance, when in my eyes she was doing her best with what was given.
Too strong protagonist brings to mind the concept of ybermench. According to Nietzsche it is natural to have the will to power, if one is best in every way. We all know who really loved the ybermench-ideas in 1930's. The work of Tolkien is the opposite to that. Power should belong to those who least desire it, like Hobbits. Lesser heroes like Sam save the day, but Thorin and Boromir are both destroyed by pride.
Trinity from the matrix is a good female character
From how I interpret it, Hollywood's defining their characters as WHAT they are and not WHO they. Rey is defined as a strong woman, not Rey is making a definition of the saying strong woman. The best way I can put it is that their characters these don't define what they are, but are being defined by what they are. I'm not defined by being a man, but I do define what a man can be. Rey, Jen, Galadriel etc seemed to be written defined as strong women, not defining what a strong woman can be. Text isn't, I think, the best way to get across what I'm trying to say, but I think I've got the basis across.
I just realized I haven't seen any of these series/films. I stopped watching them since Rise of the Palpatine.
Thesis for you. Whether there is a noticeable link between strong female characters and their attire. Compare past vs present
GREAT VIDEO 💜💙💛🩵💚 THE STRONG FEMALES CHARACTERS MARY SUE NO!
I prefer the feminine characters over the super strong ones I mean, if other people prefer the strong ones that’s perfectly fine, but I prefer the feminine ones.
👍🏻
I think men really enjoy the Hero's Journey trope of a nobody training really hard and eventually becoming a somebody. It's why in every anime like DBZ or Naruto characters are constantly talking about training. It seems like for women they just like to have the Mary Sue trope of starting out perfect and being better than the men. Men fantasize about becoming better, while these new movies posit that women fantasize about simply being better than men.
hear hear
I think Arcane has a good example of modernizing female characters by making them complex and interesting (thoughts taken from "How ARCANE Writes Women" by schnee). There's no quick fix that can be solved by adding a single strong female character, but there are numerous of small adjustments one can do instead.
I think the easiest fix is just to include several female characters with different personalities. Like how the hell do movies-creators think that a single female character with an empty shell of personality will work? In Arcane I think it's about 50/50 male and female, which includes women being leaders, being more traditional feminine, being motherly, being physical strong, being more inventive and so on. By just showing different ways of expressing femininity, it's easier to bypass certain stereotypes.
In Arcane, they show that an awesome female character doesn't have to disregard a male character. Rather, they focus on strong relationships, where for example Mel and Jayce make each other stronger. In Mad Max: Fury Road, they do the same. Max and Furiosa take turn being in the spotlight and helping each other out. No one is existing on the cost of the other, but they enhance each other.
Arcane improves and moves beyond the old stereotypes (see more details on the video by schnee). A lot of the characters were originally pretty stereotypical from the game, but they managed to fix those in the Netflix series. For example Jynx could have easily fallen into the manic pixie girl trope, Vi could have been the strong female character trope, and Caitlin the damsel in distress trope. But by doing the hard work to make them complex and interesting, all of these characters have moved beyond their stereotypes. This is no easy fix, it requires well written characters.
I think It's okay for a female character to act like a douche-bag, but then it should be acknowledged as a flaw. It could be a powerful tool to show a weakness for the character and a potential for growth. Adora from She-Ra and the Princesses of Power has the "main character mentality", where she thinks she has to be the one to fix everything by herself. But this affects her friendship with Glimmer, who is placed in the background and is disregarded, which has dire consequences for the story to come. Adora has to overcome this flaw in order to win. I also just think a movie has a stronger message by showing the power of teamwork, too many people in real life are too fixated on doing everything themselves and hating to cooperate.
I like how you mention agency, and how important that is. There's a big difference between having agency and being independent, and some modern movies seem to have forgotten that. To give a character agency, they should want something that drives them through the story. A perfect and fully developed character doesn't usually have an interesting drive, which is why those character rather fall into the mentor role to guide the main character. The drive should be connected to their flaw (from John Trubys The Anatomy of Story). Like who cares about a character's drive, if their choices and actions are never questioned and it has no consequences? This is when we get movies where the villain is way more interesting than the main character.
Bahubali is an excellent movie with women empowerment, granted the protagonist is a man.
Why are we still talking about Rey? That movie came out four years ago.
My point is, why cherry pick a few thinly written female characters and pretend that they represent all that Hollywood has to offer when there so many better written characters out there, even in the SFF genre, like the women of The Expanse or even Star Wars Andor? The Expanse in particular has FIVE different female characters who are the best in their class; they are strong, yes, but they make mistakes, they have blind spots, they need help to achieve their goals. They are feminine when the story calls for it.
Why not give some attention to writers and shows that do things the right way instead of just throwing more chum to the anti-Disney bandwagon?
Your peach wall colour, white-little coloured shirt and white skin is too white overall. I believe you need to wear stronger colours to offset the brightness. The new microphone / sound is awesome.