A Deep Dive Past and Present Into the Many Records Released by Deutsche Grammophon
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- čas přidán 17. 08. 2023
- Tracking Angle writers Mark Ward and Michael Johnson sit down to discuss their collecting history with the storied German label, and the advent of the new "Original Source" series cut by Emil Berliner Studios. Filmed in late July, look for the follow up to this conversation in Michael's review of the second batch of Original Source titles, that will post shortly on the Tracking Angle website.
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About Speakers Corner: since these are German master tapes, you can rest assured that they’re using the actual master tapes. Check the deadwax, you’ll often find “EBS” = Emil Berliner Studios, and “RM” = Rainer Maillard. Earlier (unsigned) cuts were done by the late Willem Makkee, who was an actual DG mastering engineer. Even the deadwax inscriptions carry forth the DG trandition, with the same style of stamping. In doubt, you can always e-mail SC and they’ll tell you who did the mastering.
Fantastic conversation! Please more.
Wow, wow, wow (three wow’s, like MH). Great to see and hear you both doing this. Fun to watch, knowledgeable and enthusiastic. I hope you’ll more of these. There is not enough classical VC content on YT. Again, Wow!
(aka Mark Ward) We had as much fun finally doing a video together as you had watching. Michael and I are now both in the same city, so hopefully more to follow.
VC's best classical music video. A fun and extremely informative conversation between two brilliant classical music enthusiasts! You need to continue this conversation… please!
I’ve only purchased one Original Source Series title thus far (La Sacre Du Printemps) and it was one of the most incredible, mind-blowing sounding records I’ve ever spun. The fact that these are so modestly priced is crazy to me… MoFi and Analogue Productions should take note with their $125+ nonsense. But the one OSS title that I now own has made me want to collect every single one. Truly amazing work from everyone involved.
(aka Mark Ward) So glad you mentioned the price. I think it is reasonable in relation to Speaker's Corner etc., and especially reasonable for the 2LP sets which are NOT doubled in price. Glad you enjoyed the Stravinsky -it's terrific!
Please consider that DGG pays 0 to license its own titles! The reissue labels have to pay sometimes substantial amounts.
Awesome video, love this conversational content. Please do more! Videos are where content is at on the web!
Great job you two. Been waiting an age to see you together onscreen…. And it was worth the wait. More please!
Great video -- very informative. Love to see you guys do a series of some kind -- thanks!
Your presentation is really entertaining and informative. I can't help but think of Niles and Fraiser! These dg recordings are simply sublime. Thanks!
I enjoyed this video
Nice duo ! great to hear you have the energetic chemistry and knowledge of classical music !
Excellent conversation! Thank you
Oh c'mon guys. Now I want to buy more. And DG seems to have an endless list of releases. My collection of DG (incl. Archiv etc) occupies half of my vinyl collection already. Wonderful to learn again from both of you together as I received a wealth of knowledge and tips from your own channels that has helped me tremendously in finding my way in the world of classical records. Thanks for this. I enjoyed it and hope for more.
So glad to see you doing a video again Michael
I really appreciated this video and the dialogue between the both of you. Classical can be daunting for newbies. Most of us are just throwing darts without any guidance. Much appreciated. I just bought an OG of Beethovens 5th in EX condition for $20. Very excited to listen to it. Listened to the new 7th from Kleiber last night and loved it!!
I really enjoyed this discussion. I have bought a few of these releases and am really enjoying them. ♥️ Thank you!
(aka Mark Ward) So glad our video led you to some new discoveries.
Thank you Mike and Mark, the video was a virtual firehose of useful info about the DG catalog. I was particularly interested in the Archiv early music releases and your discussion has given me some good pointers. For many years I have enjoyed the Gardener Bach Mass In B Minor on CD and am curious about the other titles on this imprint. Cheers!
(aka Mark Ward) As we mentioned, the Archiv releases often sound better than their regular yellow label catalogue mates. This is especially true as you get into the early digital era of Pinnock, Gardiner et al.
Eugene Ormandy recorded “Mathis der Maler” twice with the Philadelphia Orchestra for Columbia Masterworks - once in 1954 during the mono era (ML 4816), and later in 1964 (MS 6562) in stereo. The later stereo version was on HP’s Super Disc List.
Really interesting talk about this label, thanks for the guideline in Deutsche Grammophon.
Picked up the 2023 DG TOS "set". Have three delivered this week, three more Saturday. Great, informative video exchange. Glad to see orchestra 🎶 being talked about regularly and am proud of D.G. for their efforts. Bet they are "jazzed" at the positive response this summer.
One question: heard a rumor that DG TOS is also releasing a A Love Supreme next month! 😉
Seriously more vids like this exchange please.👍
Something to remember about the era of the 1970's, the phono cartridges of the time could not handle the dynamic range and force behind the sounds. I remember the odd Angel release that was so powerful that the stylus struggled to stay in the groove and ends up bouncing up in the air at the loud full range of the orchestra. The records were accepted back by the record store and Angel had re-issued a version 2 of the release. The sound was compressed sounding, by comparison, but the stylus behaved itself and did not bounce anymore.
Many people were still listening to ceramic cartridges that, despite the 6 grams of weight, could not handle loud dynamic passages without distorting. I had a higher end Empire cartridge for CD-4 RCA Quadraphonic recordings. It was quite good and I still have it as a backup. However, today's cartridges can handle the dynamic sound that was intended to be in the grooves.
Deutsche Grammophon cut through the chase and released compressed, squishy sound from the get-go. It was really sad but no one had any issues with the playing of the record. It was safe. The final product must have greatly disappointed Herbert von Karajan, who was a fanatic on the reproduction of classical music, technically aspiring to utilizing the latest recording techniques.
Karajan's last recordings were digital and sounded terrible
This was fun! 😊
This was great gents, really enjoyed it.
I just received the Mahler Symphony 5 and found is very exciting! I'm picking up all others as well and the only one I've had an issue with is Verdi Requiem - audible defects in the last 3rd of side 3. Has anyone else experienced this?
Wonderful hearing you two geek out on these wonderful DG classics. I’d love to see the Original Source treatment given to the Concertos for Saxophones LP (Deutsche Grammophon - 2530 209). The Dubois piece is amazing with transcendent saxophone playing.
Thanks Michael and Mark for a hugely helpful and informative dive into DG. It’s great to hear that you are likely to do further collaborations in the future. I was knocked out by the OS Brahms 1 PC but Mark’s overview suggests the third wave of releases is going to be the one that will ruin my bank balance. As far as the discussion of latter non grooved Ace of diamonds/STS releases being highly variable in sound quality I have noticed the same. I have a lot of these and have found that the chances of getting a dud can be significantly reduced by getting Ted Burkett and Harry Fisher mastered records (G and W) and only buying single rather than the double letter pressings at 3 O Clock on the dead wax to avoid luke warm meh pressings!
Brilliant folks .. thx. I need to revisit my shelves and storage. I have been tainted by tulips. Just wish the originals were cut like the revered classical Lps we all know.
Deutsche Grammophon’s reputation amongst audiophiles suffers from a lot of hand-me-down information, much of it just hearsay, it seems, and of doubtful provenance. However, anytime I took the time to listen without prejudice, I found DG’s sound to not be lacking compared to other labels. Their stuff sounds different, but not necessarily worse. Sure, they were sometimes inconsistent, as DG was a huge operation back in the day with many engineers spread all over, and they were late to get into stereo recording (a one-off in 1956, then full-on starting in late 1957). But they have an immense catalogue of unbelievable treasures, and I’m happy audiophiles finally get to experience it properly.
(aka Mark Ward) We are so lucky this OSS series is happening. Fingers crossed for many more....
I agree! Different sonic perspective but I’ve always appreciated many of them though more from the “cheap seats” not 5th row center..
Pentatone issued some DG (and Phillips) quadraphonic records on SACD. All of them have great sound, and many are outstanding performances.
(aka Mark Ward) I was wondering when someone was going to mention the Pentatone releases. They are indeed highly desirable. Some titles ended up being redone by EBS for the DG single-layer SACD releases. I would love to see DG cater to the digital consumer with dual layer CD/SACDs based on higher res remasters.
Great fun to watch.
Where in Europe can you buy these? I have been looking on Discogs but cant find many of them. If you have a link to a good shop would be great thanks
Question: do you file your large classical records by artist, composer, conductor or by label?
Really informative, thank you. I've recently ordered the Verdi and am looking forward to reading your review Michael. When do you think it will be up?
Really enjoyed this video. These kind of videos are my guide into classical music. Most of which you showed were stereo records I think. Here in Europe I come across quite often the Tulip label mono DG records as well. Do you guys recommend these as well or should I stick to the Tulip label stereos?
(aka Mark Ward) If a record was only released in Mono, I would absolutely explore those earlier large-tulip monos - but with stereo recordings stick with the stereo version. There is some amazing mono material in the DG catalogue, but many have also been very well remastered for CD. I think there was a specific Mono CD box that I bet you could still find. On mono there are many fantastic Ferenc Fricsay, Furtwangler records for starters. Also the Karel Ancerl Shostakovich 10th symphony is a knockout.
@@musiconrecord6724 thanks a lot Mark. I’ll be checking them out from now, the LPs usually are only 1 or 2 euro overhere.
Great chat, gents. I'm hoping the DG Original Source series releases my all-time favorite album, the Boston Symphony Chamber Players doing Debussy sonatas for cello, flute, viola and harp, plus Syrinx (1970). I have an Eloquence CD version with Afternoon of the Faun added, which really makes a great program.
All those BSO Chamber records are wonderful.
Hi guys great video, i hope to see more like this from both of you. Question, for someone new to classical, i have on the way to me 2 from the first release of TOS series - Mahler and Kleiber. With Strawinsky on my Wants list. From the next lot of releases in TOS series which ones would you recommend to some one like me? Or just get all of them? Thank you.
(aka Mark Ward). Definitely the Abbado Debussy/Ravel. The Brahms is incredible, but the distortion issues in the couple of places Michael mentioned are real. I will be buying a copy myself nevertheless. The Verdi is for Karajan completists.
@@musiconrecord6724 thank you Mark, I appreciate your response and suggestions. Again great video, looking forward to more like them.
Have to check out the Respighi/Ozawa. The Dorati-version on Mercury is one of my favourites. The four last songs by Strauss are fantastic too, I only know the versions of Jessye Norman on Decca and the famous Schwarzkopf-recording, both left me speechless. There's a wonderfull liverecording on youtube of that songs with Norman and Sawallisch...outstanding!
Jessye Norman's four last songs were recorded by Philips!
Great video. I’d love your perspectives on some of the peculiarities of DG’s production. Tulips came in many flavors over a fairly long span of time. Are early pressings better? How about English, American, and Italian pressings? Also would love to be able to decode things better. What does it mean if there is a “-“ before the catalog number on the label? And what of the various prefixes and suffixes associated with those numbers, i.e. “SLPM?” What’s with the red labels?
Now to zoom out, I love the perspectives you both bring. You each have a deep understanding of the music that’s been recorded and a significant care and understanding of the nuances of the recording and pressing process. Not many understand and appreciate both.
(aka Mark Ward) Avoid anything not manufactured in Germany or West Germany. Clearly stated on record label. You are going down one more generation with anything not made by DG themselves. With earlier, pre-1968/9 recordings, always go for the large tulips if possible. Catalogue numbers are irrelevant beyond indicating a reissue or repress. Discogs is usually pretty good on having all the details (except in the case of the Karajan Prokofiev 5 I showed).
I have a Brahms Ozawa conducted that I really enjoy. Will look for that Ravel at my local that has a bin full of Deutsche Grammophon records.
Great video
Thank you, gentlemen, for the extensive excellent discussion of TOS and vintage "Tulip" DG's. Your descriptions of the sonics of these new reissues coincide with my reaction to the DG reissue of the 1963 Karajan Beethoven symphony set of a few years ago produced by Sinfini. Improved clarity over the original (that I purchased in 1967) and surfaces. That new set was cut at a distinctly higher level, too. I was wondering what you both think about that reissue. As for the TOS reissues, I am most interested in the 1960's DGGs and the MTT/Boston Symphony recordings of the early 1970's. I agree with you both about the Karajan Prokofiev 5 and Shosty 10, which are nonpareil. Speakers Corner QC has been a mixed bag in my experience ranging from excellent to pretty noisy. I have ordered a copy of the TOS Ravel/BSO based on your recommendation to sample one of the reissues. And, because you were grasping for examples, Ormandy/PO recorded excellent Hindemith for Columbia in roughly this time period of the 1960s and 70s. The sonics can be iffy, but the performances are first rate. Thanks again.
(aka Mark Ward) I am curious as to what that Sinfini version is - never heard of this and couldn't find it on discogs..... I will tell you that the upcoming titles from Boston promise to be even better....
@@musiconrecord6724 Sorry, Mark, I may have been unclear. The set to which I am referring is the limited-edition reissue of the Karajan/Berlin Phil 1963 Beethoven symphony set SKL 101/8 104301/8. Clearly, the recordings were remastered and cut to a higher level than the mid-60’s originals. The packaging, tulip disk labels, and notes are dead ringers for the original 60's set. The surfaces are near perfect. Effectively, TOS in all but name. Speaking of DG Beethoven symphony reissues, the Bernstein Centenary set reissue of his Vienna Philharmonic traversal from 1990 (9LP 479 8721) is, as I am sure you know, worth serious consideration. Each of the two sets is different from each other in several ways, but both have their lovely moments. Thanks again. Bob
I wonder if D.G. are gonna do an audiofile version of the 9 symphony of Bethoven by Karajan or Bernthein?
That would be just the thing Im currently searching for😮
Im a beginning classical collector and Im searching for a record of the ninth that sound brilliant from begginning to end while also containing a first-rate performance.
Does such a thing even exist at all?
By now I have collected tons of recordings of the ninth but even the "best" of them feature nasty distortions (especially in the 4th movement)😢
(aka Mark Ward) Have you tried the Speaker's Corner version of Solti in Chicago? Love the Karajan 1963 9th, and an original large tulip should sound very good indeed. The Bernstein on DG - remastered by EBS - is great, but only available in a box set@@nnnb896
Hi, sorry for the late respond; buy I was a bit busy. I have the box set of Karajan from 79 and I guess what you have heard is the saturation of the horns + the female voice near the and of that 4th movement. I hope they can correct it in a future edition if they do reedit it.
Two arguments of this enjoyable discussion are really important to me and I hope you can further develop: first the importance of chamber music repertoire (which is also, I think, the most suitable to be realized and appreciated on vinyl) and it should be added the Lieder and Choral repertoire (which are the roots of German romantic music); second the avant-garde (not only Darmstadt please!) recordings.
It would be nice also if the old recordings made with tube systems come back to life through an AAA tube chain ...
Here’s my favorite ’70 DG recordings (not yet planned to be released): Beethoven: First Piano Concerto (Michelangeli/Giulini), Beethoven: Late Piano Sonatas (Pollini) Schubert: Streichquintett in C+ (Melos/Rostropovich) Schubert: Symphonie nr.8 (Kleiber) Schubert and Wolff: Lieder (Sviatoslav Richter/Fischer Dieskau) Verdi: Aida (Karajan/Mirella Freni ...) Berg: Lulu Suite, op.6, op.4 (Abbado/London Symphony/Margaret Price); Debussy-Michelangeli; Janacek-Kubelik-Firkusny
(aka Mark Ward) I have many of these! Don't know that Richter/Dieskau at all. DG is about to reissue the Avant-Garde series in a CD box - I will be reviewing.
Dear Mark the two recordings by Richter/Dieskau on DG are examples of amazing musicianship. There are footage of their friendship into the documentary Richter- The Enigma by Monsangean (I’m sure you know that). I also recommend the Richter/Schreier rendition of the Winterreise. forgive me for these digressions!
I didn't know about any of this - so I will be investigating.... Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention.@@danielemastrangelo8016
Dear Michael and Mark, a huge thanks for this great video and the focus on the newly released DG Original Source. This is golden information for those of us planning to buy some of these great releases. Btw, I noticed the system in the background and the speakers (Harbeth right?). Is it Michael’s or Mark’s? Regards from Brussels,Ignacio
Hi Ignacio, this room/system is mine, however those particular Harbeths (SHL5+ 40th anniversary) were on loan to me from a friend. My regular speakers are the Harbeth 30.2 XD.
The Fugue in the Hindemith Bb Symphony....ahhhh! (Hi Michael!)
Wow 😮
I have a many many LP classical Record, from my Husband Collection
What to do? Pls let me know
Enjoyed the video. Maybe you could do a follow up but a bit shorter next time.? 😅 These Original Source reissues seem to be mostly from the 1970’s transistor era. But my jaw dropped when I heard they were recorded originally in quadraphonic, this got me excited and I will have to try and get some to compare. As a collector it would be nice if DG could issue more of the Original 1950’s and 60’s records from the SLPM and LPM series as these are the Tulips from the valve era ‘alle hersteller’ GY5 Labels.
(aka Mark Ward) We are all hoping that if this series is financially successful it will lead to many more reissues across the catalogue. I will tell you that the brilliant Maillard/Meyer team are feeling the same way.
Have you heard the Esoteric?
An added, interesting (to me) note for DG and the three titles I received this morning. Two of the three DG TOS sealed LPs, Kleiber Beethoven 7th and my 2-LP G. Verdi Messa Da Requiem have dirty, DG polypropylene outer sleeves but on the INSIDE of both! Not just smearing but literally fogged residue. The actual DG cardboard jkts are fine though I wiped them clean as well. Both were brand new. Don't believe I've seen that before on any label, including DG. Vinyl is fine.
(aka Mark Ward) I am really surprised at this. All copies I have seen have been immaculate. Did you buy direct from DG or from another source?
It would be great if you could a list in the comments the details of the LP's you discussed......................... Please?
(aka Mark Ward) Good point. We'll see what we can do.....
@@musiconrecord6724 Thank you
Where is Bernstein????
Funny thing, I have plenty of Reference Recording CDs and LPs, and none are unbalanced in the bass... All of them are, BTW, the most naturally similar to a good concert hall experience. 😊
The disrespect for CD by some members of the vinyl community is ridiculous. If only these people knew how stupid they sound when they detract from the medium. To say it with the words of Mazzy: “It’s the music, stupid!”
Karajan; Sibelius Sym #4 DG tulips - unreal
(aka Mark Ward) oh yes, that's a personal fave!
Deutsche mono era '51 - "60 is superb
I love Karajan's Mahler 5.
Me too.
That's a really interesting video. Unfortunately, for me there are better performances elsewhere of most of the works produced so far in this new DG series. The Gilels/Brahms are top performances but I'm sure I heard somewhere that No 2 distorts in the second movement.
DG BSO Steinberg Planets, please! One of Joseph Silverstein's finest moments! john
(aka Mark Ward) We are keeping our fingers crossed it's amongst the releases in the New Year, John.
It would be best to ensure the interview audio doesn't clip/overload next time Michael.....especially whilst critiquing audio quality...
Nice Harbeths!
Karajan's early 1960s Brahmas symphony #4 spoiled me for all others, including Szell's version on Columbia.
I wore my copy out years ago and haven't been able to find another since, neither on vinyl or CD.
Okay...now I feel like such a novice. I've got a lifetime background in music (voice and French Horn), raised in a musical family (father sang opera, taught piano, majored in voice and keyboard, choir conductor, and music teacher). I've also been into stereo equipment since the early 70's. Although, I wouldn't consider myself an audiophile. I have a modest system now, with a Rogue Audio Sphinx V3, Tannoy Revolution XT-8F speakers, and a Fluance TT with an Ortofon Blue cartridge. Well, I've seen some of this news with the Original Source re-issues, notice the Mahler No.5 and then went and played mine, for just the second time. It had been set aside and I'd typically play my downloaded CD version. Well, since the upgrade in speakers and cartridge, I thought my original (absolutely mint) recording was simply astonishing! Such a clear/clean pressing, great soundstage, and great dynamic range. Then I'm watching this video and the original I'm raving about gets pooh-poohed? I can't imagine the new re-release can be that significantly better. But, now I'm really curious because how could what I thought was fantastic can be done so much better?! Wow!
(aka Mark Ward) The OSS re-do of the Mahler really is that much better. Worth every penny.
@@musiconrecord6724Mark, I will be playing my first TOS recording tomorrow and will get back to you. Ideally I'll be validating your opinion. But, I didn't get the Mahler. I got the Kleiber version of Beethoven's 7th (currently my favorite - they change.) Btw, which of the two gentlemen in the video are you?
I can't imagine you being unsatisfied with the Kleiber. It sounds terrific and the performance is very special. I'm the British geezer BTW.....@@zizendorf
@@musiconrecord6724 Well, Mark had my first listen today. If you enjoy validation, I'm sending it your way. I'm glad I made this purchase. Hard for me to be objective as I so love the 7th. It's exquisite! There is absolutely no comparison to the Deutsche Grammophon DC version of the same recording - none. I'm not the best with the audiophile 'review terms' but will do my best. First the dynamics; they were outstanding. The detail in hearing all of the instrumentation was excellent, maybe the best I've heard. Given the absolute satisfaction, I will nit-pick one detail. I felt the violins were mic'd up a smidge too much? Along with that the timpani was striking (this in a great way). I love how Beethoven uses timpani! However, and this may be a problem with my cartridge that I'd not noticed previously - with the violins and timpani coming from the left of the soundstage, there seemed to be a little lack of "center" or balance - just slight. I was hoping for a little more depth from the cellos and especially the double-basses. Finally, in the fourth movement I got some more of that. All in all, a great experience. Can't wait for October for the true comparison (although no such thing truly exists). There's just nothing like a concert hall with an orchestra at full throat. Thanks for your input!
I would really liked to see Holst the Planets with Steinberg conducting in Original Source.
(aka Mark Ward) Me too. Fingers crossed it is coming amongst the Steinberg collection they will be releasing.
In another panel discussion on this site, it was mentioned that they are coming out with a Steinberg/Boston box in January.
Have not heard any of the new Orig Source vinyl releases.
However, I have heard (or own) many of the same DG recordings on recent high-rez digital remasters, I assume Emil Berliner are also responsible for digital remasters. To cut to the chase, it's the same wimpy sonics as in the first gen CD/lp releases . Something weird about 1970-1990s DG prod/engr team. Yes, this was well into digital era, too. This same prod/engr team are responsible for that wimpy DG sound. I don't think the new vinyl remasters will be good -- you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip,.
The dynamics on the Mahler and Stravinsky are reference quality. The sonics are anything but wimpy. The previous remasters weren’t from the 4 track masters.
@@michaeltrochalakis6526 Note: All these Orig. Source have been prev. released on LP/CD. Years ago, DG also re-e-mastered some CDs (again!) in ORIGINAL-BIT IMAGE (late 1990s), but I've heard these were simply EQ'd and sound WORSE. See:
stevehoffman forum
Ditto with Universal Music Group (parent of DG) re-release of DG and other UMG classical labels catalog albums under the "Eloquence" sub-label: Eloquence
Note the AMSI moniker. It's DG messing with the orig sound again. I have a few Eloquence CDs and they are awful.
It seems like CM labels are trying to stay afloat by any means necessary. After the very-good first gen. of CDs, and the profits they brought in, an industry was built and are now struggling to keep that machine running. Welcome to reality!
So it is very possible that the new vinyl Orig Source re-masters are simply EQ'd versions of orig wimpy DG recordings. That is, they can add Bass and Treble for you ;)
BTW: I am deliberately searching for the orig. 1980s-early 1990s CD releases (like DG "Galleria" CD series) , where the transfers were more honest.
About Mahler 5 by Karajan. It’s one of David Hurwitz recommended recordings. czcams.com/video/vRFFYRM4DS4/video.html
😊❤
👍
thought it would actually be michael talking
I'd rather listen to Mark's Moonswatch than a DG record...
I thought that ding dong Michael Fremer would narrate the video. Maybe he blew a fuse in his upgrade electrical box!
It's not new, that was an old video :D
Ding ding ding dong
I've purchased a couple of Original Source Series, and I must same Im very disappointed. In short, the sound is better, but the music is worse. Very HIFi sounding. I have found a similar result with the Classic records and Analogue productions RCA living stereo remasters where artistic musical expression is eviscerated at the expense of HIFI sound Ie better separation, more detail, more slam, wider soundstage etc. I think the love of music has been lost in the translation of modern remasters somehow.
Gentlemen it's pronounced Mikelaaangeli not Mikelangeeeli. !! Please !
It's just pathetically wrong to claim that orchestral playing took a big step up in the 1970s. Ever hear the records preceding 1970 with Cleveland, Boston, Chicago, Philly, LSO, even the NBC Symphony?
Yes I’ve heard many of them. I’ve also heard decades of woodwind playing from the 20s-today. The standards of pedagogy and playing on these instruments has risen leaps and bounds over the years, mostly due to how good the conservatory system has become and how competitive the environment was/is. That doesn’t mean there weren’t great players back then, but it does mean the talent pool has gotten larger. A lot of that advancement also had to do with the audition system that not only leveled the playing field, but also inspired intense competition for orchestral seats.
Woodwind playing in the US has been great for decades. For example, nearly all of principal oboes since the 1930s and 1940s have been students of Tabuteau or the people he trained. Ditto for Daniel Benade's influence on clarinet playing.
@@poturbg8698 I am well aware, being a descendant of Tabuteau myself (two of my teachers studied with John De Lancie and another with Harold Gomberg, both Tabuteau students) but for a while it was ONLY Tabuteau's students that could compete. Now the number of teachers in North America that can prepare top level auditioners and performers is tenfold. Everyone who lived through the older days as a player agrees, the standards have risen. This is not a controversial opinion among orchestral players or in music academia.
@@poetryonplastic While the technical standard overall has risen, the musical standard has basically leveled. There aren't nearly as many players nowadays that play with the deeper musicianship of some of the players of the middle twentieth century, for instance Marc Lifschey, Harold Wright, Alfred Genovese, Robert Marcellus, etc. One of the effects of the methods of auditioning nowadays has been to remove personality and individuality from orchestral players as everyone strives for complete technical perfection.
I find it quite irritating that so many English speaking people don't even bother to pronounce names correctly. In Europe we have dots and rings over A's and O's and they are there for a reason. I think it's a lack of respect to not even know how to pronounce Furtwängler.
(aka Mark Ward) I think we got it right..... I even took German in high school, but maybe in the heat of the moment we tripped over our umlauts!!!!
@@musiconrecord6724 My comment wasn't aimed at you but your friend there. But then I don't take anything he says seriously.
Sometimes, people who are not native speakers of a language will get exact pronunciations of certain things wrong. There’s a lot of languages out there and lots of words. All someone can do is try (especially when doing unscripted, off the cuff commentary). I will happily accept people pointing out corrections, I’ve been welcoming of corrections and suggestions my entire life, that’s part of being in music and academia. However if this reality is really that deeply offensive to you, I would highly recommend you avoid viewing any and all of my content, because I cannot provide you a safe space and/or trigger warnings to cater to your particular needs.
Sorry, but not an appropriate response, methinks.@@thomasroth4533
I agree, Michael.@@poetryonplastic