The Character Assassination of Son Gohan | Dragon Ball Z
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- čas přidán 21. 12. 2023
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Son Gohan, where did it go so wrong?
#dragonball #dragonballsuper #dragonballz - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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I think Gohan was indirectly protecting his humanity more than his Saiyanity.
Think about it. Gohan knows nothing of space and yet he is already afraid of what is coming from space to attack earth. In the scenario of Raditz arrival, that is.
He doesn’t know of his Saiyan blood, because Goku doesn’t speak well about his Saiyan blood as he himself lack the knowledge of being a Saiyan.
When Raditz came to Earth, that is when Goku went on his pure Saiyan instinct and Gohan the polar opposite: his human instinct.
And guess who else feared for the appearance of Raditz at first hand? Krillin, Bulma and Master Roshi. Who are humans like his mother Chichi. Who raised Gohan.
Feared of an alien that was related to Goku and acted in a way that Goku had never did that the brother sees failure of him doing.
And his Saiyan name Kakarot never stuck to Goku and Goku holding on to memories of his grandfather Son Gohan’s passed his grandfather’s name to Gohan, which stuck to Gohan the way that his name stuck to Goku.
Gohan is human in the mind, but half Saiyan in his blood.
I'm lowkey insulted you think as dbz fans you think we like body pillows
I do think Gohan disliking fighting like Goku does, is very valid take. But i do agree with your point, that Gohan never shrinked from a fight before. Yeah he doesn't have the same drive and enjoyment out of it, and him being afraid of becoming soem bloodthirsty monster is valid. But he always had motivation to fight to protect others.
I believe its in the time between end of Cell games and beginning of the Buu saga. Those years off camera being raised by Chichi without Goku in the picture, clearly made him soft. Not to mention essentially 6-7 years of peace. But yeah gohan became a bitch and goku was written as a brain dead american. While the Prince was never allowed to succeed not even for a min.
Gohan is not the only character Toriyama and Toyotaro have assassinated/done dirty. The others include:
Yamcha, Chiaotsu, Goten, Trunks, Lunch, Chichi, Piccolo, Tienshinhan, Videl, Lapis, Lazuli and most of all, *Krillin.*
Gohan as a pacifist would've been a perfectly fine concept imo if his motivation to get stronger was for the sole purpose of not having to fight ever again and being the absolute strongest being in existence that any threat is trivial. As outlandish as that idea sounds, it's a much better idea than whatever random power-ups he got in Super.
True that heck what if a villain threatened his family or friends he needs to know that he can't always rely on others to do it for him
bro could've just been the dragon ball equivalent to X of the mega man franchise and i would've loved it
That motivation part sounds like Accelerator's from the Toaru series
Like sasuke was intended in the final climax of naruto shippuden
whatever random power ups he got in Super and Z*
I thought Goku's shock at some realization in the Cell Games was that his son wasn't a fighter like him. But it might just have been him thinking wtf Toriyama did to his son in a week
" Hold up, this is not Gohan, this is... this is Gonehan! "
@@rifarira9160Goku be like, "Bro was cooking just a week ago. Whatchu talkin bout Piccolo?!"
That was what his shock was. Piccolo briefly convinced him to question if what he was doing was wrong to Gohan.
@@GeteMachine Wrong. Gohan never liked fighting. Stop simpin, fanboy.
@@dangerousdays2052
Learn how to read.
My problem with him is not learning lessons he should've already learned. He obviously doesn't like fighting but he has already learned that he has to to protect his family.
well, we are talking about a guy who completely reset his mc and make him a joke so he can develop him all over again. so dont expect him to remember side character like gonehan that much
Well by that logic so should Vegeta but he didn't and Goku has the flaw of being too naive and compassionate to his opponents some characteristics are apart of who you are
@rifarira9160 In terms of characters Goku is the one getting devolved. Gohan literally just got that random power plot armor boost in dbs superhero
Hes the one character who should have been molded after either Superman or Peter Parker. Either Gohan is "as strong as he needs to be" but still a nerd at heart, or "great power comes great responsibility" which is what he should have learned to accept after he lost to Buu.
That's exactly what I was saying with that dumb super Frieza arc when he was too weak to help... He learned that lesson in the buu saga already...
Gohan telling his OWN mother to "Shut the hell up." is literally insane.
She need to do that so ion blame him
@@yugiwitastickI mean as a stereotypical Asian parent, if my son told me he’d go to an alien planet for a year, potentially getting himself killed, I’d be going “hell no!” to that as well. I think Chi Chi gets way more hate than she deserves.
@@yugiwitastick She's absolutely right to be angry and yel at him bruv.
@@thatnerdyouseeeverywhere7536 As a Balkanian, I would be too afraid of "The leather belt of doom" to talk back.
@ravenouself4181 Jamaicans 🇯🇲 had it bad too with them leather belts especially my mom she didn't play as skinny as she was love her though
Gohan is a good example of how to waste a good character
And he's also a prime example for any aspiring authors. Know how to balance doing what you want and doing what your fans want
😂 what ? Goku has more fans than Gohan and it's not close
Again with this stupid rumor. Toriyama didn’t make Goku the mc again bc of his fans, he made Goku the mc instead of gohan bc gohan didn’t fit the fucking role as the mc. TORIYAMA STATES IT HIMSELF, “I can’t write a compelling story with gohan as the mc so I switched back to Goku”
U stupid gohan fans have to stop coping and making up lies just bc gohan didn’t become the mc. When toriyama himself doesn’t think he fits the role of the main protagonist.
@@garryjohnson9328 I think what they meant is the fact that eveeyone wanted to see Gohan step up
@@michaelnash3218So why would people complain if Gohan finally stood up?
@michaelnash3218 and again you are wrong because I have always disliked Gohan and I'm not even close to the only one
I do agree that Gohan stepping up to the mantle of main character was kinda sloppily handled. The whole pacifist thing is a little forced and he isn’t even part of the story for the majority of the cell/android saga. You can even see this reflected in the movies.
This is the same gohan who tired rebelling against Goku to save piccolo
Gohan defied Goku and Krillin's wishes so he could go back and save goku against Vegeta.
He defied his mother and told her he was going into space for months to bring back Piccolo, as he felt responsible.
He defied Krillin again to save Dende.
He stood defiant against Vegeta on Namek, and refused to back down against the likes of the Ginyu Force and Frieza.
He defied his mother again to fight the androids and Cell.
The whole pacifist thing isn't "a little forced" - It's so out of character and happens out of no where that it'd give the audience whiplash.
From the Cell Games onwards Gohan has been mishandled every step of the way.
@EndoScorpion it's as out of character as gohan when he fought buu, calling super buu a not so nice word starting with r only to end up getting out smarted by the same buu.
Gohan isn't a pacifist tho, at least not the way everyone thinks he is. He wanted to take down Cell but he couldn't activate his full power. It's been stated at least 3 times in the manga.
@@veryangryboi4128 yeah, I know that was part of the issue. That he knew he wasn’t strong enough to beat Cell, but frustrated that he can’t access the power that Goku says he has…
I thought there was a bit of pacifist stuff thrown in there, but we could also be mixing it up with English dub dialogue translation changes and what not. I don’t remember exactly
Its True, Gohan was Never a Fighting maniac Like his father but he wasn't a Push Over either, he was willing to Fight When the ocassion called for it And was even Shown constantly training to not Get Behind, he was One of those "Superhero" type of characters Who doesn't nessesarily relish in Fighting but was Ready to do It When the situation called for it.
And that is why the Cell Saga should have been the final pin on the paper that Gohan now realizes, he can't reason with all enemies. But his strong enough and has the potential to end a fight in an instant if he really wants to.
So what should have happened is Gohan and Piccolo keeps training once or twice a week so Gohan never has a " Oh shit moment "
That is the reason fans of Gohan like myself will argue to the death, his pacifism is justified against Cell. But after the fight is when Gohan should come to terms with having to fight and end it quick before anyone else are in danger.
Unpopular opinion but I would have watched a buu saga that lingered on Gohan's school life and saiyaman persona with him actually being a light-hearted protagonist who kicks it up when angry.
And a big villain could be introduced especially considering vegeta said he would quit fighting in the cell games just have a weaker villain be introduced that still challenges gohan and the z fighters.
No. That's actually my sentiment. Gohan being stronger and continuing to train while keeping his goofy persona
That was literally the trunks arc in super and almost everyone hated it…
Unfortunately the manga is being sell on worldwide and not just for you. So..........
I think Toriama's biggest mistake was not renaming the show when he wanted to make a reboot/spin-off.
In every DB series the conflict and power creep always scale from one arc to the next, so if the show would be "Super Sayaman's goofy highschool adventures", it should have dropped the Z and went with something else as the title.
Dragon ball GT has a completely different tone than Z, and even though things eventually get serious, you can see from the getgo that it is a completely different show, even down to the protagonists.
If Toriama had done the same for the Buu saga, maybe fans would've accepted this as a new spinoff instead of expecting a natural progression in power scale after Cell.
Popular DB character: *_Gets Akira’d_*
Yamcha: First time~?
Nice pfp. :3
To this day, I still say Adult Gohan should have become a teacher like Master Roshi. Sure, he doesn't like fighting, but imagine how hard it would be to threaten the Earth with hundreds or thousands of trained humans to defend their planet. That way, Gohan could have been a leading researcher in ki while letting other people take up the fight.
He don't like to fight so no
@@robotboy765 Gohan had no issue training, until the plot needed him to have an issue.
God I hate what Tori did with my former survivor boy @@robotboy765
The other Z fighters became useless how are humans gonna fight outside threats?
Adult gohan much later in the future did write a book all about martial arts and ki control for humans to use, in Dragonball online’s lore
But then again even with all that i still don’t rlly see humans being strong and smart enough like saiyans to defend the earth from powerful threats, they’re just not built well enough like saiyans and other powerful races
I'll say this again: Yes, I know Gohan doesn't like fighting. You know what else he doesn't like? His friends, loved ones, and even complete innocent strangers getting hurt or killed, especially when it's to protect him. That's what prompted him to attack Raditz. To attack Nappa a couple times. To save Dende from Dodoria. To stand up to Recoome. To fight Frieza. Etc. etc. And to eventually unlock Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2. A Gohan going off of the Cell Games wouldn't just want to drop fighting altogether. Because he should know that he's the last line of defense for Earth if a villain shows up, and if he's not able to do that, everyone he knows and loves will be killed. "Wanting to be a scholar" is not an excuse for how Gohan's character has been since the Buu Saga.
For the life of me I do not understand how Toriyama couldn’t write a balance of Gohan. It’s really not that hard. Having him be the slice of life character AND a powerful warrior who may not enjoy fights to the death but will fuck shit up to protect his family, friends and planet seems like such an easy set up. It’s RIGHT THERE. It’s like Toriyama missed a wide open lay-up smh.
I agree and am glad to see someone else feel the same way.
I guess the super saiyan transformed fired any common sense he had
@@HouseHawk62plus buu really didn't need to be as strong as he did, toriyama could have made the buu arc stating everyone has gotten weaker including vegeta as he stopped training and then introduce a villain weaker than cell whos like moro that can sap power away from people.
And there you go, toriyama always complained how he was forced to escalate the potential stakes in the story being forced to make stronger enimes not realzing this would have been the best moment to introduce a weaker villain but a villain that can still stand a chance against the z fighters.
Future Gohan really is the only Gohan I feel like they got right. Future Gohan doesnt like to fight either, but knows when he has to and tries to do what he thinks Goku would do, but also with the human-like sense of justice that differs his motives to fight from Goku.
I've always had something against Gohan, it was like a watching friend throw away every chance he had to be something great. It was as if the entire community was okay with just giving excuses and excuses for why Gohan isn't such an unfortunate letdown of a character, and that Gohan was truly him.
I realize now that it's not that Gohan was just written poorly, he was sabotaged. I always felt like the Buu Saga was a bit weird when it came to Gohan, and now I get it. Gohan was set-up to get jobbed over and over again once the Great Saiyaman Arc was a bust.
I think I feel a bit warmer towards Gohan now, knowing that there was some hope for the kid. It's too bad all that hope was just for the market, and not for the character.
They could have used that for his character arc though. Because what happened with Cell wasn't his control. He got stronger only because he got angry and his dad influencing him. Where as in the Buu arc Goku was dead. He got to live how he wanted to under his mother but still at heart wanted to fight mildly to practice with Goten and stop robbers in the city if he was near them. Then he gets cocky trying to show off to Kibito and Babidi that he was SS2 and the youngest Super Sayian before Goten. Then he gets his ass kicked by Debura and Vegeta is disappointed in him, having surpassed him significantly as a SS2. Gohan could have been flawed from that, because he never really got to control his potential or learned out to use it outside of just circumstance.
That could have been his character learning how to be like how his dad naturally is. What Gohan should have learned was how to fight as a human and a Saiyan. Goku should have just been the Saiyan and not a hero for justice, but Gohan literally *is* this. And its why he wanted to be the Great Saiyaman, and Videl a volunteer cop was shipped to him. They didnt ruin Gohan in terms of power. Thats easy to asspull. The ruined him as a character to grow off of who he is that differs from Goten and Goku (Goten and Gotenks also being characters wasted by status quo.)
I mean he's pretty well off though? The guy has a good job and is helping the world by being a researcher.
Things that are pretty admirable.
It's much like Mob from Mob Psycho 100; Has crazy potential, but they never try to live off their powers. In fact they prefer the more "mundane" life.
@@boxtupos7718 If he wasn't done so dirty in the Buu Saga and Resurrection F, that honestly would've a nice little place for Gohan.
Unfortunately, he was done dirty. He comes off as a man who never learns his lesson, and one who always pays for it in blood.
You would think someone so concerned with peace would give a little consideration to his strength, that which allows him to protect the peace he holds so dear. Instead, he falls by the wayside again and again, and needs someone else to remind him how to not be so shit.
He should've learned his lesson after Buu kicked his ass the first time, but then he falls in Resurrection F, and then makes the same mistake in Super Hero.
Joy. Another comment blaming great saiyaman for gohan's wasted growth
@@lapplandkun9273 Not blaming anybody, Great Saiyaman was great.
It's a tragedy of the manga/anime industry that it's so destructive toward its artists. Some of the greatest manga and anime can wind up sabotaged by their own creators when they experience burnout or mental health strain. And it's disturbing how often this happens.
One of the sad parts of Gohan's downfall is that being downgraded to a side character in the middle of the Buu arc didn't have to be as bad as it turned out to be. They could have still used Gohan to stall Buu with Vegeta during the Kid Buu fight since dead people who keep their bodies can still fight on the World of the Kai's. In fact, they could have made use of Piccolo, Gohan and Gotenks during or out of the fight weather they were dead or not. Goku and Shen can teleport people here and there whenever and or wherever the story needed them to be, those who could stall Buu like Gotenks and Gohan (If we go with the argument that Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu, the manga has some weird statements about that which I'm gonna avoid going into) could stay while people like Piccolo and Supreme Kai could go to Earth to gather support for the Spirit Bomb. What I'm trying to say is that there were options available to make good use with the supporting cast without relegating them to essentially being cheerleaders. Maybe Piccolo would have been stuck since he's the weakest of the group (counting Goten and Trunks as Gotenks) Gohan did give energy to the spirit bomb, but I feel keeping him to help with Buu could really have been more help stalling Buu while giving Gohan some action after being embarrassed during the Ultimate Gohan fiasco. As a bonus we could avoid having Goku leaving his sons and Piccolo to die on earth while Vegeta returns without grabbing anyone. That was ultimately needless drama (for reasons I explained earlier) which in the anime (assuming the Manga covered it, and this drama wasn't filler) featured Goku agenizing over the mistake while Vegeta yelled at him only for the very next episode to treat it as if that scene never happened, it had some serious tonal whiplash.
gohan, goten and trunks being absent in the afterlife always felt off to me, enma is capable of sending dead people if a major threat was present, hell he doesnt even need them to have their bodies so why did they relegate them to spirit bomb battery once ressurected I dont know
They were absent for the simple fact that if they were present, kid buu would get the shit beaten out of him
Exactly, but it really starts to get annoying how often the reason why certain things happen is because “the plot demands it.” Toriyama makes a number of decisions in this story that, if the world were consistent, should not happen.
It's weird how they didn't have much input when it came to the Buu saga's finale. So much of the arc is focused around the boys' fusion training and Gohan's training with the kais and none of it really amounts to anything plot wise. Like you said, they didn't have to defeat Buu or anything, but at least being present during that final fight would make all the time spent with them feel worth it.
@@WikiThis the kids helping goku push the genkidama would have been so cool, kind of a reverse father son kamehameha except they would actually be there
I’ll say this again, Akira Toriyama never liked DBZ. He ALWAYS resorted to a more chilled out OG Dragon ball storyline because he loves writing comedy.
I think they sloppily handled Gohan's role in a different aspect. Gohan should have been promoted to take the mantle but not solely because of his plot-power scaling. They should have developed him as a characterization differently. Its what Future Gohan got right, and what ROF and Super Gohan just don't do.
Future Gohan seems like the only version of the character that feels right. That they got right. Not because of power, but from personality. The traits we like from him. Not being a clone of his dad but inspired by him. Which I think is a wasted aspect of him. Because Toriyama wanted to reemphasize that to him Goku isnt meant to be a righteous hero, because he's supposed to be just a simple guy who likes to fight as a Saiyan. But Gohan is not a Saiyan. He is part human and as a human side, he more so than Goku should be the character that wants to fight for justice, to defend others, because he is raised by an earth mother and his character already shown it with why he became the great Saiyaman. If anything Gohan should have been the character to be that righteous hero character because of his human side, but Saiyan power. Its just such an odd missed opportunity and miss-use of character. Because unlike Goku, Gohan in canon actually has these traits Toriyama didnt want for Goku. Gohan should have been the one more like Superman with the morals of an Earththing but the power of an alien.
To add to that his still half sayian and like them they like to fight. Idk if people forgot but Gohan has half the traits of a human and sayian alike.
How does toriyama ruin the father and the son??😂😂
Never let bro cook again. 😂😂😂
@@CuteRedPanda64you'll still watch super season 2
@@10jonapiKeep it, I really don't care for the story of DB or its underdeveloped power system.
Just needs to ruin the Holy Spirit next 😂
@@CuteRedPanda64he won’t be cooking anymore sadly
This is why future Gohan will forever be THE GOAT!!!!
Not really. Future gohan has his own problems. People only like him because he's badass ignoring the fact that version of gohan was tired of fighting and suffering with major PTSD, survivor's guilt, and stress from trying to keep the rest of humanity alive. That gohan constantly focused on fighting that even in Xenoverse 2, he compared himself to his present timeline and wanted what present gohan had. You people should stop self projecting into a war survivor. He has the same problems present gohan has. He's of extremes. It's not his fault, but that's a problem with his character. Just fighting and nothing else, and he couldn't even train to be as strong as goku because he was a crippling war veteran. He didn't balance his life. He just veered towards the opposite direction and got nothing out of it.
@@lapplandkun9273If Gohan didn’t protect the earth in the future timeline or at least salvaged what was left they would all be dead. That version of Gohan sacrificed his own happiness for the lives of the humans on earth. That version of Gohan understood every action has a consequence he knows the stakes are high unlike Buu saga Gohan who thought he could play with Buu. This Gohan fought because he wanted too and needed too. Main Timeline Gohan doesn’t embody neither of those traits.
@@lapplandkun9273this just seems funny to me. People like Future Gohan because of that.
Yes, I absolutely love Future Gohan! I would even say, that's the DVD I watched the most out of all the movies and specials!!! I liked his chivalry, his sense of duty, becoming a master for Trunks, the way he continued to thrive even though he got his arm chopped and had no real partner to train with, yet managed to surpass the power of an android. His death was very dramatic. A sacrifice worthy of a hero. Absolutely amazing character!!
It is genuinely insane how good your pacing, editing and overall presentation is in these videos. As far as anitubers go, you're the best and it's not even close
That by itself is great, but it's the fact that your arguments are interesting, well-reasoned and justified. You make good points and back them up with solid arguments. I don't always agree with your points, but it's still interesting to listen to you talk.
For example, I do legitimately think Super Hero Gohan is good, but it has very little to do with the writing, but characterization. Gohan has always been fairly mild, and there was very little to him other than "duty" as you put it or Toriyama's forced attempts at pacifism. Super Hero reframing the character into this nerdy, even slightly ditzy scientist/father imbued him with a sense of comedy that matched even Goku, and it better sold the contrast between his current self and transformed self. Now I won't make the argument that Beast Gohan is particularly amazing as a concept, but it does play up that contrast and viciousness with his nerdy and soft aesthetic
But yeah other than that, that was a great video. Really nice to go down memory lane
Hey, thanks for the comment I really do appreciate it! I wouldn't call myself the best but I sure as hell try my best.
As for SuperHero Gohan, he does have his charm sure (his design is way better than his RoF design that's for sure) but I don't want to give spoilers for part 2 of the video, so we'll have to continue this discussion next time. 🤔
@@CAGExplains looking forward to it 😁
@CAGExplains he's right your easily the best crazy consistency bro keep it up
Loving Dragon Ball means accepting it really does kind of stop being good at some point.
I wonder if there's a timeline where Dragon Ball became a generational manga where the torch gets passed on and on through generations, where Gohan didn't get done so dirty like this.
So like jojo
Toriyama projected himself into Goku from the beginning and Gohan represented his real life son who was born around the same time Gohan was created. At some point he decided he didn't want him to be the protagonist of the story. I've a feeling something in real life caused that tbh. But we don't know much about his real life to draw from. Something tells me it wasn't good though.
Maybe Toriyama wanted his son to be something big and achieve, burdening his son too much but his son just… was happy and satisfied as is. I don’t actually know, just speculating
Maybe Toriyama wanted his son to be something big and achieve, burdening his son too much but his son just… was happy and satisfied as is. I don’t actually know, just speculating
Maybe Toriyama wanted his son to be something big and achieve, burdening his son too much but his son just… was happy and satisfied as is. I don’t actually know, just speculating
Maybe Toriyama wanted his son to be something big and achieve, burdening his son too much but his son just… was happy and satisfied as is. I don’t actually know, just speculating
@@basimali619 It's all tasteless speculation on my part too really, maybe you're right. All I know is his reasoning that Gohan 'wasn't working' has never made much sense, as he's topped polls in the west for years, and he had to purposefully downgrade Gohan in the story to kill his momentum. Which always felt like sabotage. Nothing that happened to Gohan felt natural. Bringing back Goku with a Halo never felt natural. But it's all in the past now.
Honestly Toriyama *might* have gotten away with the whole slice of life stuff during the buu arc if he just had some build up towards it same way og db had build-up to becoming a fighting manga
I always wanted more Gohan-in-school shenanigans.
Videl was such a great and fun character, too! I loved their dynamic the most.
I'm sad that those parts of the story were cut short to favor Goku all over again.
If you want to read a gag manga go read OG dragon Ball or read one of his other mangas he made. The series is known for its action not its funny gag shit. This is a fact. Toriyama should have just handed the series off to somebody else or started a different manga entirely his handling of the Dragon Ball series is awful. How some people back him up on the whole gag thing is weird considering half the fans only started watching Dragon Ball for Dragon Ball Z. Kinda hypocritical in a way but whatever.
@@Coolguy17761 this is so true man
@@Coolguy17761 I mean in all fairness, even most of the Z arcs in Toriyama's manga have a bunch of comedy gag moments /elements, despite being less "gag manga." Is your argument that any of the shenanigans surrounding Gohan's high school life is or would have been too gag like to fit the image/characteristics of what DragonBall was at the time?
This video made me think about some things I didn't noted before. You certainly did a huge search job to do this video, trying to understand how Toriyama was thinking and how he wrote Gohan the way he did. Nice job!
Literally, gohan who fights to protect and enjoy a little battle would have been COMPLETELY fine. Because it sets up to where gohan can enjoy his life, have some fun and a little bit of gags and actually live normally but when put into a dire situation he knows when to stop playing around and fight for justice. It wouldn't set him up to be weak as he knows hes the few last lines of defense, he knows he can't slack off, he knows when to be serious, and yet still is able to have fun in school, become the great saiyaman and enjoy his life. Basically what im saying is, if only gohan kept up with his training as well as pulling the trigger sooner, it would give us the perfect set up for gohan to be protector and fight aswell as focusing on the time where he's not so that toriyama has room to enjoy the gags. But when its not gags, its serious.
He don't like to fight so accept so no.
Gohan wasn't a pacifist he was just traumatized from his childhood and didn't see fighting as the main focue of his life. The fact he gets mischaractarized as a pacifist is cancer
So he would rather all of his friends and family die then fight cell?
@@JRLSpiderman Clearly not, considering he *did* go up to fight Cell.
@@JRLSpiderman ?? A he literally went up and fought cell not once but twice? B if you could read you'd see I said he isn't a pacifist. I said he is traumatized from his childhood, so he gets into ruts where he doesn't like to fight because he tends to get someone he loves about killed when he does or doesn't (piccolo and the Z fighters then Krillin then Goku and Future Trunks then his mom videl and everyone but his dad and Dende, he pulls up and gets himself killed against Buu).
@@Turkolini talking about super
@@Turkolini doesn’t matter. Responsibility is far more important than his crappy opinion. Future Gohan would happily fight to help his friends
Always thought the pacifist thing was weird especially since he did that whole monologue about being stronger and not letting his friends down in the hyperbolic time chamber
If anything I would have thought Gohan would grown into his Future Gohan’s counterpart. He would becoming the protector of Earth after Goku made his noble sacrifice against cell. I think Goku should have remain dead. After the lesson he learned from Cell, Goku’s Death and Trunks Death he would train to become the strongest so he can protect his friends and family from the evils of the world. I always thought while Gohan had his own hobbies with the power he had compared to everyone else he should put it to good use, instead of wasting all the time studying. Gohan should have trained consistently. Not saying give up your dream, but if your weak and your loved ones are under attack and your weak you won’t have a future for yourself or them. To me Gohan should love fighting but for the same reasons Goku loves fighting. Gohan should be a kind-heart person, but when things get serious he should be cold-hearted.
@@ebenezeronile Strangely, I don't think Goku should have remained dead. Goku as a character always liked the tournaments and gentlemanly battles and not the absolute death-matches like those he had to fight in order to stop Vegeta & Frieza. We gotta bear in mind how excited he was to fight Piccolo Jr, in his arc during the tournament and how unhappy and seriously he took the Saiyan battle in the following arc.
Arguably, there's more evidence of Goku being a pacifist than Gohan, with Goku even telling Krillin he only fights so that he could enjoy quiet and peaceful days with Chi-Chi and Gohan.
I think that in mind, Goku should have been revived but should have been retired coming out only to back the team up. Sure he might train, but he should have been given the Piccolo treatment, with Gohan stepping into the fore and being turned into the lead. Gohan definitely should have aged up into being like Mirai Gohan rather than the outright clown he was in the Buu saga.
Been waiting for this one! Great work as always man!
Edit: Bro this is probably the best video I've seen from you. Not only is it informative, but it's HILARIOUS. 😂 Toriyama did Gohan SO dirty in the Buu Saga it's crazy!
We need a PART 2 Immediately!
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Hello there!
@@xana7617Gohan in the Cell saga wasn’t out of character. We see all throughout the series up until that point that he doesn’t like fighting, he doesn’t want to if he doesn’t have to. His fight with Cell was an opportunity to make his voice known, hopefully convincing Cell to give up or flee, not to mention his lack of self-confidence at the time. Videos from this guy are always subpar when it comes to these things.
@@xana7617 I did watch the video and I have read the manga, quite a few times. It doesn’t come out of nowhere though.
All the times he’s been scared, failed at doing something, or ran away in a fight isn’t enough of a reason to assume he might not like fighting? And it’s only a problem after he just says it out loud after fighting Cell for a little bit? Characters don’t have to say everything, context clues exist.
@@xana7617You're looking at too surface level. Gohan never had to deal with an antagonist like cell,Plus Cell and goku are basically working together to get the best out of gohan(but mentally it's at his worst)to prove the other side wrong or take the other down. He never had to deal with a being that actually gave humanity 10 days to prepare to get stronger... Gohan was kind forced into this situation,Goku is living through Gohan at that point while cell is an enabler so he is trying to enable gohan.
The Kid basically sees himself just much of a threat after he learns more about himself than a guy that will give someone a chance to improve and have an agreement with ...We forget didn't even kill Trunks when Trunks told him to finish him.Gohan is scared of himself at that point because he knows his mind will be warped once someone takes him over the edge and only to overpowered cell to reach to the next level and once he ascended to that level he only tortured cell...stole cell traits and robbed cell of his beliefs and didn't kill him right away once goku told him to kill cell...Gohan got caught in the theme of selfishness.
@@xana7617 What? None of that is true. He doesn’t love to fight in the Buu saga, he just does it because he likes helping people, not because he likes fighting criminals. He knows he can use his superhuman power for good and decides to do so. And again, with the stuff about the Namek arc, there’s countless context clues going all the way back to the saiyan saga that Gohan is not a fighter.
I liked pacifist Gohan. I think it would have been great to see him as the main character one day, picking up the mantle as Earth’s strongest warrior once Goku and Vegeta are gone. He’s noble in that he fights to solely protect others even against his own interest. And that internal conflict could develop his character further.
If he was gonna be a passive, at least make him strong, so you know what sometime I need to fight for our love
It’ll never happen bc toriyama doesn’t even agree it’s u LOL. Keep coping
Nice video brother, I love how Toriyama light heartedly wrote the Buu saga, man was like "F everyone, Imma do this my way". Just goes to show that we shouldn't take Dragon Ball all to seriously.
And then he had to come back later because of the Embarrassment failure of DBE.
@@SpeedPunch Evolution was an abomination to everything Dragon Ball.
With all the goofy stuff in dragon ball, I’m surprised people still take it so serious. A planet is named cereal and a group of space pirates are all named after dairy products lol
@@Andretti2Tone Right? It's so funny to me how people try to act like Dragon Ball is this super serious show when yes there are serious scene and moments, but at its core Dragon Ball is a gag and that's perfectly fine.
@@21Savage-DB7ZS you still have to take some jokes serious inorder for them to be funny. like as gag manga DB is Buu Saga wasn't really funny either.
Really wish we got more Gotenks being taken "seriously" instead of being written off as a complete unimportant gag.
Dragon Ball needs a bit of humor and fun, it is at it's worst when it takes itself too seriously. The last 2 arcs of the DBS make me feel it the most.
Gohan definitely would've fit better as a 'superhero' archetype, like a Superman figure. Superman doesn’t relish fights either, and likes to live along humanity, but he has great power and have no problem using it to fight his enemies and save people.
He can’t keep getting away with this 😭
This is probably your best video yet! I love the way you used specific panels and scenes from the manga/anime along with the quotes from the interview with Toriyama. It comes together to form a strong argument that feels academic in research but delivered in a way that makes for great casual viewing! Also, I have a massive Gohan bias so that also helps.
Also, do you have a link to that interview with toriyama? I'd love to read the full thing, it looks really interesting.
I always really enjoyed Gohan's adventures as the Great Saiyaman. It showed his passion for justice, while also his love of peace. It was much more consistent with the Gohan we knew all along, finally free from having to sacrifice his life and with a chance to have some fun being the hero. Shame it only lasted a couple of chapters and a handful of filler episodes.
Honestly, I wish Gohan stayed as the new protagonist of Z because he earned it and for it to be unceremoniously taken away from him is just sad. He could have retconned the "I'm a pacifist" part like he retconned Gohan mirroring Goku and people wouldn't care because they'd get the Gohan they wanted.
In the cell games I think you are overlooking a couple things regarding Gohan’s character. In all of Gohan’s previous fights he was fighting in a group setting, he wasn’t given the responsibility to save everyone like he was during the Cell Games. Gohan always had a crutch of relying on his father, now that he doesn’t, this is completely new territory. Also, Gohan’s pacifist nature while maybe not outwardly foreshadowing, I wouldn’t go as far to say it’s out of character for him. In all of his previous fights, it was kill or be killed, he never lived to fight the main antagonists unless he absolutely had to. At the end of the day Gohan isn’t the same type of warrior that Goku is.
Exactly! When Cohan begs Cell to stop the Cell jr's attack, he knows he will be stopped by Cell if he intervenes. And since he can't beat Cell and most of the Z fighters won't last long. In that fight Cohan feels his being put on the spot by Goku, by Cell, by everyone.
it's the first time the fate of the planet hinges on him and him alone. Having to fight his fears and consciously tap into that anger within.
yeah, this just feels like the same old arguments that goku passed torch to gohan so gohan must step in his shoes. I honestly think people see gohan as a prop more than character. They self insert gohan ignoring what he wants
While I'm sympathetic to the character aspect of Gohan not enjoying fighting like his dad or even most of the other combatant protags, I don't think the pacifist example in the Cell Arc is comparable to any of the other examples that proceeded it. Despite any reluctance he may have had in earlier conflicts, Gohan was (usually) ultimately willing to join in and fight where he felt necessary. In the Cell fight, he was entirely reluctant once he actually started and then wasn't after he actually got angry and transformed. Personally, I would say Toriyama did that to illustrate a strong and dramatic contrast in Gohan's demeanor before and after transforming. To be clear, Gohan seemed to indicate that what he was really concerned about when fighting Cell was losing himself to his rage and killing Cell because of it, but the problem is that he's never indicated he's had that problem before (at least not the killing, or specifically killing in rage parts).
In the recome fight both vegeta and krillin were completely unable to help and couldn’t fight yet gohan went flying in to fight recome without even caring abt this whole pacifist bs
@@aka-fusion8909 again. Cohan is not a pacifist. I don't know where people are pulling that from, he fights only when necessary or when he is angry. People are making this too complex.
26:38 Small Correction, but Gohan *did* use SSJ2 again against Dabura
He kinda had to. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been able to keep up with the guy since Dabura was a Super Perfect Cell-level threat.
It makes no sense for a Gohan that got *weaker* since the Cell Games to go on *even ground* against a Super Perfect Cell-level threat as base Super Saiyan. If Gohan got *stronger* during the 7-year timeskip, this wouldn’t be an issue. But since he didn't, then he'd need SSJ2 to go even with Dabura.
Plus, Lightning doesn't stay in the character forever, just in Power bursts for the most part. Laughing Stock Media made a great video about this topic, i highly recommend it
Edit: That Smile Bomb AMV of Gohan, though. Can we have a full version of that? That song fits Gohan really well, which is surprisingly
Not weaker, but rusty to the point of going SSJ2 isn't as strong as it used to be. So in a sense, his fight against Dabura was him in a weaker state of SSJ2, hence why he struggled.
It’s kinda weird. Guides like Daizenshuu 2 and El Manga Legendario, manga exclusive guides, pretty much directly say he was a SSJ but Daizenshuu 7 the manga and anime guide explicitly says he was a SSJ2. Daizenshuu 2 also said he couldn’t power up from rage which means that he could use SSJ2 in the tournament without it. I don’t believe Videl getting beat up would make him more angry than the murdered people he saw or the threat of everyone dying.
Visually, it makes more sense that he was a SSJ (except for his SSJ2 like hair) but logically, it makes more sense to be a SSJ2. If SSJ was equal with Dabura, SSJ2 would’ve be twice as strong and tanked him (according to D7 saying you need to have 2x the ki of an attack to tank it). Gohan’s goal should have been not to take damage so Buu wouldn’t get resurrected and finish Dabura so Buu wouldn’t get resurrected.
I don’t think Gohan was still tired since it’s been some time since he was healed. Either D7 is either making a retcon or actually just making the truth less ambiguous. Z Movie 10 Gohan doesn’t have sparks either but is stated to be a SSJ2. SSJ2s don’t always have sparks either but normally when they’re powered up fully. Goku even stayed as a SSJ while flashing SSJ2 like power that even Vegeta caught on to.
So it’s very weird how ambiguous this all really is and how it could make sense either way but most logically he should’ve been a SSJ2.
@@Enerjjak I like to view it as SSJ2, but not at the peak of the power Gohan can wield, because of his rustiness in terms of martial arts practice/keeping himself in form.
@@Xfactor3521 Makes enough sense to me.
@@Enerjjak There's no real evidence for it in the manga. I suppose the guidebooks can make statements as to what happened at that point in time, but they're not telling the story and are not substitutes for the medium telling the story.
Tbh; I just saw it as Gohan being “a kid” and Toriyama injecting some random realism into the character since IRL nobody who’s sane would like to kill someone, and Gohan knew clearly that the confrontation against Cell would lead to death.
So again, IMO Toriyama just wanted a “human” in the story and gave Gohan the same values as any basic student.
Thank you, what you are explaining here of the first time that Toriyama does this too Gohan, it's what i notice after re-reading the manga a few times and seeing the analysis videos done by MistereFusion, if you have the chance and you have not watch those videos, watch them they are amazing.
But Toriyama has moment where he doesn't know how to write the characters to do what he wants them to do without going out of character... Which there are way he just couldn't come up with them because he writes by the set of this pants. He does the turn the characters into puppets and put them audio boxes that makes the characters move to his will instead of their will. Like Goku not going to Gero telling him "I know you are planning something in 3 years, don't do it, we will be watching you". Losing him through technobabble and then you have a reason for everything going to the bad in the Cell Arc...
Very well crafted video and I appreciate how you keep it to the facts!
My dude...are you using Urabai Baba to read my mind???? Easily your best video so far and the one I agree with the most (Beast Gohan aside, again, lol), and I already entirely agree with most of your videos. Standing ovation, my guy. Standing ovation.
You even forgot to elaborate that the moment Buu absorbs Gohan, who is supposed to be the strongest single individual character in the series at that point, he doesn't even go five seconds without getting his ass beat.
I agree with you Gohan is one of the saddest stories of a character being dumped on by his writer. I think Gohan's pacifist moment stems from 2 things 1. His heightened emotions during a big event and his desperation to make all the conflict stop and 2. Android 16 remember 16 and Gohan start to become friends before the Cell games so I think 16's pacifism and nature loving attitude rubbed off on Gohan which could have worked out but ONLY if Gohan had become more like future Gohan in the Buu arc. After Android 16's and Goku's sacrifices Gohan should of been full of guilt neither of them needed to die if Gohan had been strong enough this should of spurred Gohan into becoming a more serious but still somewhat goofy, nature loving, justice serving hero and yes he should have been the protagonist moving forward that would have given Dragonball SO MUCH potential moving into Super but instead now Super is just mostly a retconning, nostalgia dependent, mess of a continuation but if Gohan had become the main character it could of done a lot more. I also agree that his and Videl's relationship isn't really given the time that's needed yeah we get some scenes of her and Saiyaman plus the scenes of Gohan training her to fly and him giving her a Senzu bean after her beating from Spopovich but it would of been nice to get a few more tender moments between them just so the romance doesn't feel forced and so Gohan has another reason to take this fight seriously and not mess up like he did when he was a teen. Gohan is also just a better hero than Goku maybe not a better protagonist but Gohan is a better hero as you said Goku cares more for the thrill of combat rather than justice but with Gohan that is flipped making Gohan the better hero and I really think the show would have been better off with Goku (and Vegeta) staying dead while Gohan takes up the mantle of protagonist.
I still have hope in a Gohan real return. I would watch Gohan paying taxes or studying like a lo-fi video for 10 hours. Please give me back my boy.
Tf you mean? He is the strongest character on earth easily and according to statements made is even stronger than goku and vegeta rn
This is a Hot Take and Goku Dragon Balls Spirit Bomb against Kid Buu is the peak ending to the Arc but lets be real, Gohan as Great Saiyaman, Videl and the Saiyan Kids versus Babidi Forces with Super G.Saiyaman vs Buu would’ve been amazing
This is gonna be a hot take as well but I lowkey enjoyed the great saiyaman, the more lighthearted and comedic tone was great and it seemed more toriyama like than anything else.
@jesser5138 because it was but fans hated it so he switched it to generic "Gohan Potential/Goku Vegeta saves day"
It explains why Toriyama has no idea what to do with Gohan now as I'm sure he really wanted Gohan to be a hero but fans clowned it so hard (hell most do still) he just went to back to Cell Saga all over again and now we got the worst Gohan ever in Super Hero and fans ate it the fuck up. It's depressing tbh as Gohan was my favorite character.
i think Toriyama wanted to use Gohan to make Dragon Ball a slice of life comedy but studio and fan backlash lead to what we got because Toriyama was butt hurt people did not like what he was doing he took Gohan and destroyed him just to shove it in the faces of the studio and fans because a lot of us wanted to see the torch get passed on to Gohan so Toriyama made sure it never could by making Gohan a joke character
You typed this high right
@chromephone ever since i was 12 their has not been a day i was not high
The montage of ultimate gohan with the yu yu hakisho theme song was just beautiful my 2 top favorite anime fusing just beautiful 😫😩😫😩😫😩
Bro this might be the greatest video essay on Gohan, not repeating the same tired arguments at all, I’ve seen one dude say something similar but not as enjoyable to watch as u. Subscribed.
I tried to like this video like 3 times while watching all to see I already did.
Really nice work - you are not only well versed on Dragonball’s history, but as well as reading between the lines of the series of the little nuances in the writing.
The back and forth in super with his character is weird too. Like he resolves to train after freeza kills piccolo. Then apparently that never happened because, come the ToP he needs to actually do it this time. I thought that must be because of anime and manga differences and it was filler but then he trains in both versions for the ToP and he's still suddenly weak again in super hero. It's like Gohan's only writing techniques is "He stopped training so he can get a sudden power up"
Yea, that same character arc keeps being recycled for Gohan. It's like a particularly bad kind of flanderization of Gohan's character.
Bulma keeps making these junk wishes and Gohan still has bad eyesight. Bro, a wish or surgery could fix it.
It was saiyan saga Gohan that made me like DBZ. I dont even like shounen anime, but I kept watching, even through super, waiting for that character to return. How silly of me.
Just wanted to say that the editing was freaking fantastic during that video.
A 40 minute CAGE video is just the christmas gift I wanted.
Thank you, Mr.Explains. You're the narrative hero we needed.
Toriyama’s writing skills have simply fell off. It’s unfortunate but it’s the truth. He’s trying to drag on a story that has been around for almost 40 years now, it’s only natural.
He’s great with the action aspect (well was) and at one point story telling but now it seems…lazy
Honestly I don't think Toriyama was ever "done with" Gohan, because Tori never was "with" Gohan in the first place. Gohan's role from the very beginning was to act as a plot device to stall until Goku showed up to beat the villain. Gohan's hidden power was used to knock the villain around a bit to buy time until Goku could arrive, and then his role was over. It wasn't until the Cell Games that Gohan did much of anything, and that might have been the most "with" Toriyama ever was with Gohan. Then the Buu Saga has Gohan slipping back into the exact same role he did before the Cell Games, being used to stall the villain until Goku could beat them, which is exactly what happens.
Depens on what you mean, Gohan was a prominent main cast member but one that was clearly never planned to take over the main character role, his character arc ended after he revived Piccolo, so Toriyama took the natural progression of this kind of character and he slowly faded into the background for the majority of the Cell.
That is until Toriyama randomly decided to make the men character after 90% of the arc was over mind you, then quickly regretted this rash decision because of course doing the first thing that comes to mind has consequences.
Your videos are always fun and bring an Insight I never really see discussed
I wonder if the fan backlash against Gohan taking over as the protagonist after the Cell saga led to Toriyama pretty much going "fuck it, Goku wins via ass pull every time now"
Nah, whatever the opinion of western fans was in Japan the polls all pointed to Gohan's popularity even surpassing Goku
Trying to make the manga into a slice of life was not going to work out in the long run of course, because like the video showed people were still waiting for a big fight in the end, but the problem itself never was Gohan
@ale-xsantos1078 and even in Dragonball, the manga wasn't THAT popular until it began to do less comedy and more fighting. So slice of life not being as popular goes way back. For all its problems Super probably did that best.
@@ale-xsantos1078 To be fair though, the Buu Saga (and even GT) were over way before the west got to see it. It woulda been too late for the western fans to have a say.
@specialnewb9821 @@marksunboxingzone
Indeed
Goku hasn't won that many fights in Super, though.
This channel is great, every video has so much effort and passion in it and the editing is entertaining and well done. I think a good channel for this one to maybe collaborate with or reference would be MistareFusion, as he expresses many similar points about the mistakes of Dragon Ball's writing
that cell crotch shot killed me.
Interesting video. If I was asked about the assassination of Gohan I would have said Buu Saga. Being able to move super fast and missing the earring, losing in a stupid way . . . IT always felt like that was the moment or week when Toriyama decided Gohan wasn't going to be a new MC.
This is a phenomenal video analysis and breakdown. Very much appreciated 🙏🏿
It really is a shame that one of the most iconic moments of the series is just a complete backpedaling of Gohan's character arc, suddenly making him go from someone that fights for his friends to being someone that needs to be spurred on by the death of someone he didn't even know up to that point. You can just feel how unsatisfied Gohan's current characterization is as he struggles to change directions and figure out where to even go from now.
As someone whose dabbled in writing fiction, myself, I 100% know that feeling of when you can just tell that things aren't really clicking and you don't know how to really fix things.
GT Gohan and Super (Manga) Gohan are the closest thing to those two versions being perfectly balanced characters.
I love how you specified "manga" of super instead of the anime
@@chromephoneanime Gohan is well written as well in T.O.P Gohan quit putting his head in a book all time and actually started training again, dbs super hero is a different continuity, so I can't speak on that
@@Sydney-wi1ym no no no dbs is the same continuity dbs super hero gohan was just VERRY BUSY
I like the effort you put in the visuals, keep up the work! I loved this vid!
Great video so far, wish for you to persevere
Edit: I can not wait for part 2, I thought it was over and was bummed but then the hype up for part 2 got me excited
While gohan didn't like fighting like goke, he didn't hate it either, so him suddenly hating to fight was just a plot pull for cell fight and to kill goku, the kid attacked freza in namake when freza was the more terrifying villain in his time, this pacifist crap that the fan base came with didnt sit well with me.
I really, really love your analysis videos.
Great video, great editing, love the ultimate gohan smile bomb montage (best anime intro song in my opinion).
You got a new sub!
Loved the video. Great observations and arguments. Instant subscribe
Clicked faster than Instant Transmission
Bro's got Time Skip! 🔥💀
im no Toriyama, but he seriously could have put a twist on Gohan's character. Instead of completely dismissing Gohan's potential, he could have built Gohan's character even more with showing that although Gohan doesn't have the leading role aspects, he could have used other means to help Gohan grow into a leading character. Instead of having him not desire fighting, Toriyama could have shifted his character development to needing to be strong to defend those he loves. Like Future Gohan's character, because of his loved ones gone, he had to become strong to defend the Earth.. just me
Dude, incredible video. Your style is awesome!
I think there are many reasons why Gohan as a kid in saiyan and freezer saga was willing to fight; among them because he is a more impressionable kid, because there was no other way, it was to save the earth (saiyan saga) or social pressure (ginyu force fight).
Against Cell at least Gohan in SSJ 1 was stronger, therefore he felt in a position of superiority and it was feasible to attempt a dialogue, there was nothing at stake (until Cells Jrs. There was a hesitation, that A.16 pushed/influenced to make the decision). So, out of character it wasn't that out.
Then looking outside the manga to see what Toriyama was cooking, I liked it just so much. It was a good video bro. Happy new year
I do belive that Toriyama should have kept up the course and continued to write Buu saga more as a slice of life with the world martial art tournament serving as the send off to the series with Goku and Gohan fighting in the finals with Goku now officially handing out the tource to Gohan. Would have been a much much much better for Dragon ball franchise in long term.
that would have been pretty awesome
Gohan always had someone there to aid him in battles that he had no choice but to face and it was always out of preotecting his frends, but when your 11 years old and suddenly put on the spot of a big responsibility such as killing an entire villian that you expected your dad to take care of, of course he was going to get cold feet. Piccolo said that Gohan mostly drew out his truw fighting insticts when he was pushed to the brink
What a fun video!
The editing, the jokes, the AMV...
I wanted to check who sings this version of Smile Bomb, but couldn't find it.
I liked the points and opinion, the research was well done, but most of all, you can see he had fun while doing it, with the visual gags and stuff. Loved it.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! 🔥
The Smile Bomb is from the official English dub of YYH
I havent watched the video yet but HELL YEAH!!!! I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS
That's the energy I need in here bro! 🔥
Wow that was a super well done breakdown. I don't have any real critiques or disagreements. I don't agree 100% but I can't disagree either. You make really good points drawn from Toriyama's own statements and actions. We definitely know that Toriyama is more a writer by the seat of his pants than a planner. I think I'll subscribe for part 2 even though I really enjoyed Super Hero (but likely won't disagree with your criticisms).
@5:36
This guy’s spittin. A lot of the Cell and Buu arc writes characters specifically to get a result in the story, vs what would more naturally/logically happen as established by the story. I like DB, but the writing isn’t as tight for me to claim this and that as “PEAK ANIME”.
This is the BEST video I've seen on the subject.
Bro your video is top notch, Masterfully done 😎💪🏾 keep it up
Gohan started as a very literal depiction of a child that is forced into life and death wars at only 4 YEARS OLD. Being more talented than any other character and having a ruthless yet incredibly competent sensei in piccolo, he adapts really well by the namek saga. Piccolo’s sacrifice and his final words to gohan changed gohan so much and it solidified piccolo’s teachings into gohan’s heart and mind. He became not only a survivor but also he had formulated his own ideas of right and wrong. When he saw frieza and his army attacking the namekian village it offended his morality and his anger overtook him and gave him a reason to retaliate. This video has pointed out to me that the gohan we saw on namek and the gohan we saw during the cell games are completely different people. When piccolo was presumed to be dead after he fought cell, goku had to hold gohan back from intervening in the fight. Yes, he’s been shown to be a timid character but he had no excuse to be portrayed as a pacifist given that cell should’ve offended his sense of morality even more than frieza. It doesn’t make sense that he wouldn’t have been angry at cell when they started fighting. Cell almost killed piccolo and he had drained the lives of countless humans. 16 being killed by cell offended gohan because he saw himself in 16 but he never was shown to have any other interaction with 16. 16’s speech was very moving but he doesn’t know 16 personally. It’s one of the greatest anime scenes of all time but in some ways it feels kind of cheap. It kinda makes sense in toriyama logic though, because goku only went super saiyan after seeing his best friend die. He knew how evil frieza was but goku always needs to see it for himself.
By the cell games, gohan is depicted as the type of person that stands against what dragon ball stands for. The tenkaichi arcs of old are all about the love and beauty of fighting and competition. Gohan becomes the type of person who wouldn’t appreciate dragon ball, which is a real thing. There are people that don’t like violence but for gohan violence has been a means to an end. Cell was the perfect time for him to use violence but he felt like he was above violence. Goku had become more merciful as Z went on because he wasn’t killing anymore like he did in dragon ball (pre-Z). Maybe goku instilled some of the newfound sense of mercy he got as he matured, into gohan during the training in the time chamber but it’s still not enough of an excuse for him to not want to fight cell. Gohan has always been the first to stand up for what he thinks is right and cell has always stood against that. His change in personality after his SS2 transformation is even more weird. He went from being a pacifist to a sadist that wants to torture cell. He snapped after his worldview was shattered by cell. I get the idea but it does conflict with the gohan that he was at the start of the series. It could be seen as some kind of character development but it would’ve made more sense to build on the character he once was instead of changing who he is. He should’ve ended up like his mentor piccolo, a practical fighter that wouldn’t revel in making cell suffer and would instead quickly take cell out the same way piccolo quickly took out raditz and warned goku not to spare raditz. Future gohan’s personality is a much more accurate depiction of the way gohan should’ve progressed. That’s why future trunks had the most practical approach to fighting. Destroy the androids before they can become a threat. Future Trunks is the way he is because he was just like his master future gohan. The same way future gohan became just like his master piccolo. Gohan should’ve ended being similar to future gohan but instead he fell victim to his own saiyan impulses in a similar way to how we saw goku and vegeta did many times before. It’s the most tragic part of gohan’s character and I do like that part of him because it makes him more relatable. We all make mistakes and sometimes we get overconfident. In a way though, it ruins gohan’s character for me because he was supposed to be above that. Not just claim to cell that he’s above it and completely change when his ideology is challenged. The idea behind it is great but it’s definitely inconsistent.
I’m glad toriyama wrote gohan the way he did but goku and vegeta were already shown to have those kinds of flaws. Trunks was also flawed in other ways but I think gohan should’ve been more like him given how serious trunks was. I also would’ve liked trunks to have intervened when gohan was making the poor choice of not immediately killing cell because it was in line with trunk’s character. That would’ve been a much better way for trunks to have been killed off because he was already killed off by cell anyway. I think trunks dying would’ve also been a much more effective way to make gohan turn super saiyan 2 instead of, or after 16 dying because trunks and gohan already had moments together, unlike 16. Gohan understood trunks’s perspective on the threat of the androids and trunks could’ve been the one to make gohan take things more seriously. It also would’ve made trunks a better, more relevant, and more complete character. It’s not gohan’s fault for being like this, it’s the story’s fault for needing a character to be written the way he was in the cell saga. Toriyama did the best he could’ve with gohan at the time but hey, hindsight’s 20/20.
I always wished Ultimate Gohan had the SSJ green eyes. That would have been sick
That's a random statement but a cool one
Wouldn't fit. Black eyes look fine
@@lapplandkun9273 I guess that’s your opinion. The anime showed what this would look like twice. First time was when Goku transformed for the Androids and the second time was when Gohan transformed for Kibito. Both looked really cool to me personally
Acually i came to the realization that red would have been a perfect color for his eyes like his beast form becuse red represents gohan cause the color red represents anger,love,youth and enegy
Very well made video, nice job!
Subscribed. Great work buddy.
Getting screwed over by toriyama has to run in the family
I have always thought that Gohan being a pacist who hates fighting in the Cell Saga was a stupid idea with no buildup.
The false promise of Gohan growing up and surpassing Goku was bypassed by greed for money by Toriyama and the studios and publishing companies
This video revived an appreciation for DB and DBZ I never thought I'd have again.
The real issue is that Gohan has absolutely no development ever since cell.
People like to bring up the fact that Gohan isn’t a fighter but forget that threats in db verse are still constantly happening in which it involves at some point gohan getting involved.
The proper character development for him going forward is actually him learning how to balance personal and fighting life so he can achieve both and still maintain himself to be a top warrior, he literally has been going off the slack routine 3 times now in which it could have cost him dearly.
But here’s another problem, if gohan does this, due to his potential being allowed to help him rival goku and vegeta or surpass them, he’s pretty much the main character for power in which it will eliminate even more stakes.
The only real solution for gohan, if we are being honest, is to write him out, I feel with his potential being a massive thing for his character and his powerscaling for the future, it would bring a multitude of problems
I don't agree that learning to balance fighting and his personal life is necessarily the proper character development for Gohan. I don't think Gohan himself even had to take on any kind of fighting role after Cell, and the story didn't necessarily have to be written that way.
Don't give Toriyama ideas, buddy.
I just wish everyone had better, more deserved hype and not just only Goku. As much as I like powerful characters, outshining everyone else based on the popularity around them alone kills my appreciation for them.🗿
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Any any rate, I believe Toriyama could have done better with Gohan's development as the years progress, but only if he didn't get the burn out prior to the Cell Games as far as I can tell. Did the boy dirty & letting Goku handle the spotlight yet again, instead having the two of them being hand in hand...😔
Come to think of it, throughout the entire manga Goku and Gohan never fight side by side or as a team... EVER!
@@CAGExplains Exactly! It was their own battles & not as a team at all. That one scene where they could've fused with the potara to create Gokhan, was pretty much their solid chance of redemption to further increase that Father-Son bond.
@@CAGExplainsthat’s insane when you think about it. You have a whole ass father and son, some of the most powerful beings in the universe and they rarely ever team up. Jesus Toriyama smh.
Well made video! Ss2 teen Gohan was always my favorite
I enjoyed this video I liked the deep dive into dragon balls history as well to set up the problem with toriyama’s writing
He’s still my goat, and I’ll never let him go!
41 minute video from CAGE, we're eating good today
Yessir! Editing this video almost killed me so you guys better enjoy it 🔥😂
I love the editing in these videos.
Gohan not intervening to protect Videl makes no sense. What are you, afraid of getting disqualified? Since when does Gohan give a shit about that?