How to Be a Great D&D Guest Player
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
- If you’re invited to be a guest player in a D&D game, how can you make sure everybody has the best possible experience? Here are some tips!
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CW: Brief foul language
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
00:45 - Tie Your Goals Into the Adventure
04:30 - Share Your Edgy Backstory
08:23 - Know Your Sheet As Best You Can
09:33 - A Word From Our Sponsor
10:23 - Don’t Allow Your Solo Goals to Derail the Session
12:31 - Find Reasons to Care About the Main Campaign
14:43 - Respect the Other Players’ Time
18:44 - Lift Up Your Fellow Players in Battle and RP
20:39 - Outro
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Have you ever been a guest in a D&D game?
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Haven’t watched the video yet but ROBBIE BEST GUEST PLAYER
I agree but I would also argue he's more akin to a supporting cast member at this point. It feels more significant than a guest role to me.
@@silversugar2140 very true
Eh. Campaign 3 felt like it was slowed a lot by him and him suddenly coming back happened at an annoying part. Or at least the episodes summarizing his stuff was.
I thought Mary McGlynn and Will Friedle were also pretty awesome guests. And Deborah Ann Woll was a ton of fun
@@zero3045 you and I were clearly watching 2 different campaigns because to me c3 slowed down a lot more AFTER he left and the situation surrounding his return was definitely NOT his fault
Honestly though, it's hard for me to call Robbie a "guest" at the table. He started with Exandria Unlimited, which was indeed a short campaign but he was still there throughout the campaign.
When they moved to campaign 3, he was there from the start and stuck for a long time. He did eventually leave but he has such a core impact and place that he was pretty much a full on member of both the actual group and the in-game party as well.
If you ask me, him leaving was more like Orion leaving. The reason why they bith left was different for sure, but the importance and length of time that both of their characters spent with the campaign was equally impactful.
I remember Garthok appeared as a way to guide Vox Machina to the Clasp. Then Vox Machina fiddled around and wanted to do something else. So Garthok pretty much spent the entire session sitting there with not much to do and then at one point near the end he mentions the Clasp IA waiting when they're ready and he leaves. Never to be mentioned again. I felt bad for the guy because he was obviously supposed to engage this part of the story but instead, Vox Machina end up going to the Clasp in a later episode without Garthok.
I think the lesson with Garthok isn't necessarily about how to be a good guest, but good hosts. Him and another guest player that VM shove to the side in favor of nitty gritty, in the weeds NPC merchant stuff (not that I hate anything with Gilmore, but...priorities being more with Gilmore {and Matt supports that saying Gil would be dead if they went to the Clasp instead of to him so...} instead of with the guest player hook isn't great hosting) don't have the best time at the table because the cast are more focused on their game than being good hosts. We can say the same thing with Kerrick, but he and most fans allow it because the bathhouse scene was super fun. But when you ask a guest to join for a short time, the guest should lift the party, but the party should definitely lift the guest. And Garthok tried from his end, but VM didn't from their's. And they don't learn their lesson until another guest comes in the future and politely, but unsubtly, calls them out on their poor hosting behavior.
@@DisneyLover258which guest calls them out?
@LostWhits I think it was when they went to the nine hells and they wasted so much time, that their guest had to enter AFTE THE BRAKE.
At least that's what I remember
Yep accurate. But i Don't know if he is the one that calls them out
Tova played by ND Stevenson on episode 92 of campaign one
Enters 2 hours and 35 minutes in. The episode was 3 hours and fourty minutes total...
@@lefterismplanas4977 I was trying not to spoil his appearance. And it's pointed (and repeated as the campaign wrap-up on talks machina showed before it was taken down for an unrelated reason) enough that I would say it's a call out. And Garthok definitely doesn't call them out but keeps getting forgotten by most people so...
Yeah I felt bad for him. Especially since I had heard he was a dm so was interested in how he played
One of the best/worst (still can't decide) experiences I've had at a DnD table was when our DM invited a guest player to play an antagonist to our party... without telling the regular players the concept for the session. Like, we didn't want to be dicks to the player and attack his character even though he was from our party's main enemy faction, and he did a lot of things that crossed our party's moral line. The party was basically held hostage for 75% of the session. The whole thing felt very railroady - the DM's girlfriend even sent me a DM halfway through, saying she didn't know how to tell him it wasn't fun. It didn't help that the guest player was a very antagonistic person in general. It was pretty cathartic when the ball finally dropped and we realised we had permission to turn it into PvP, but I'm not sure it was worth it considering how genuinely stressful the build up to the reveal was. I think it was a good idea in theory, but evidence for why setting expectations is important in practice.
In concept it doesn’t sound like the worst idea in the world, like inviting someone over to play a villain and ham it up a bit, but like it has to be clear that they’re gonna be playing a villain and not just be forced to hang around the regular pc’s just because.
Jep. Surprise guest villains are the worst thing in DnD ever. Since I mostly play online with people I do not know in person, I had lots of chances to see things go south, but for me it was that one time my DM "introduced a new player" who's character lived in the village where we had to free a prisoner and made him a "surprise" villain. We were highly suspicious of his caracter from the start, searched his house while he was away, and had a backup plan to ditch him if we feel the need but when the prisoner we freed was badly injured (by Lycantropes no less) we agreed to bring them to the guest player's house and secret basement. Que a concentration-free wall of flames behind us that melted our Arteficer's steel defender, queue the guest player throwing a fireball at our level 3 party and downing our healer (and my Warlock's Familiar) in one hit. It did not help that my character had been bitten and infected in the fight just before or that the guest character escaped using several castings of Misty Step and an escape tunnel - returning only to set fire to his house from too far away for us to even roll initiative while we tried to long rest there (it was the only structure in miles that was not inhabited by hostile Lycantropes).
That is easily the worst DnD experiance I ever had - even worse than the time I was DM and half my group left mid story arc without telling me before hand.
@@thecosmic8248 Maybe it does not sound the part - but it is. Inviting someone to play a villain is fine but inviting a surprise villain is literally the worst idea a DM can have. It forces the party to metagame in order to be welcoming and progressing the plot with the new player and than pulls the rug from under them punishing them for playing along.
@@jacksharks6433 I think your experience is more that the DM and player kinda botched it.
On the reverse side, I have done this and it worked really well. The key part in my experience is that the villain player has to be good at his job, and the players need to win.
@@thecosmic8248 I actually got invited to play the BBEG for the last two sessions of my cousin's campaign, because he knew I was an old-school style gamer and I'd do a better job of playing a ruthless genius lich that's been around for thousands of years than he could. Was a very fun session, almost got both a TPK and a TPC (Total Party Conversion, almost convinced them the bad guy was right) but I held back just enough to give them a well-earned win.
Mark Hulmes in C2 playing Calianna was a good guest player and played really well with Caleb not trusting his character. The other players were trying to be nice and being more trusting than they probably should have in character but he just went with it and instead tried to give Caleb reason to trust her.
I still contend the Battlemaster shouldn't be the default Fighter, but Superiority Dice *should* be a core class feature not just a feature of one subclass. Superiority dice should be the Fighter's equivalent of a mechanic like Bardic Inspiration: A mechanic that the base class has access to and basic uses for, and which subclasses get more specialized and more powerful uses for, like the Battlemaster's Maneuvers or letting them power up an Eldritch Knight's spells. Heck, they could just replace the dice that certain subclasses use with Superiority Dice, like the Psi Warrior's Psychic Die or the Arcane Archer's Arcane Shot uses; very little would change.
Acquisitions Incorporated: The "C" Team had some great guest stars. Pat Rothfuss as Driebus, the screwup adopted son of one of the PCs who came back with a level in a new class (and usually a new get rich quick scheme) every time he showed up was a blast, the regular crossovers with the cast of Dice! Camera! Action! worked way better thwn they had any right to, to the point where two members of that cast are basically permanent AI members now, Molly Lewis as Cher Beestinger, child of one of the main PCs and apprentice to the love interest of one of the other PCs who spent her entire first guest appearance "helping" them get together. Ella Umber as Davine who got a fun little arc where she shapeshifted into one of the main party members and got to sabotage them. Seriously, that show has got some D&D lessons if you're still doing this when you finish Critical Role Demystified in 2346...
Good points on both topics. I think they always want to keep the Fighter simple as it's the entry level class (though that's actually barbarian, you can play a barbarian standing on your head and barely paying attention to the game, and I say that with them being my favourite class). But you're right, superiority dice are the thing that *only* fighters get, and they really display that this guys isn't just someone who fights, but the pinnacle of Fighters. And it's a flexible enough mechanic you could apply it to all kinds of things.
C Team was one of my faves, though I fell off it after a while as it became weirdly convoluted and I just lost track of things, but I love that crew, and it really did have some great (and one or two not so great) guests. But they pulled off some pretty amazing episodes and I really love how wild Jerry let some of his players go with their arcs. I kind of want to get back into it, but it feels like I'm so far behind now lol.
My barbarian is pseudo-multiclassing into fighter using feats that give her battle master abilities (martial adept and fighting initiate choosing the superior technique fighting style.) Of course with feats it’s very limited compared to what a full battle master can do but it’s nifty.
One thing I would add/note is that there's a difference between being a guest at a table and being a guest in a campaign.
In our latest campaign, my group had an issue with a new (to us) player who alternated between letting us make the decisions so as to not "mess up the group's dynamics" despite us almost begging him for input, and popping off on Tiberius-like side quests out of nowhere (or outright contradicting what the party just decided). When we would ask him wtf, he would say "I thought you wanted me to engage!" Like, yeah, **in the thirty minute discussion we just had**.
Had he been a guest, him letting us lead would have been fine, but he was a full member of the party. [The side-quests were an entirely different matter...]
I guess my point is, if you're there at character creation (one-shot or otherwise), match the energy and investment of the table.
20:04 "and drop Uncle Iroh like wisdom" gave me a chuckle.
You mentioned Chris but not his crowning achievement in CR. Spurt.
Edit: Though sure, that's in C2.
"Speaking of having a dead family member..."
*Burger King ad*
Uh...
Metro for me.
how else would he make the burgers? 8)
I got doordash lol
@@TakeWalker calm down, hannibal
This is a good channel. I like Mike.
I’ve really enjoyed your takes on guest characters during your demystifieds. Gurn Bladstone and that older Goliath character that you’ve talked about both seemed so cool for the critical role party.
Okay now that I’ve actually seen the video… I love all your points. I do think you emphasized lifting up the main players a little too much, though. I think in many cases this is applicable, especially in shows like critical role, but in many at home games a guest player is someone new to the game who wants to try it out, or someone who might be in town visiting and invited to play as a way to spend time with friends. I don’t know if it’s fair to push those players into a “supporting” role. D&D is ALWAYS about teamwork and supporting each other as equals, of course. No one is a main character. But I think guest players deserve a little spotlight during their guest session. I think a guest player should be able to feel pride in getting the final blow! I think especially for new players just trying the game out, it’s important that they don’t feel like they’re being pushed aside in favor of the “main” characters. Of course, I think this is more on the dm and regular players over the guest player themselves to make happen.
Though, if you’re watching SuperGeekMike, you’re probably already a D&D player… and so being new isn’t likely…
@@BlackOpMercyGaming Yeah that’s probably true, but also given the title of the video is just “how to be a great d&d guest player” new players might stumble upon it if they’re researching tips on the subject because they’re getting ready to be a guest player
Also like I said at the end of my comment this is probably more on the main players and dm to make happen anyway
Think of it like being invited to a book club (or any other group that is centered around an activity that necessitates a lot of talking, turn taking, etc):
If someone asked "what should I do when I'm invited to my friend's book club," most people would say to read the room, follow their friend's lead, match the vibe. It's probably not a good idea to spend the entire time talking unless they invited you there to give a lecture.
Now, if it's a standalone book, everyone is on the same page (pun intended), but if they're on the fifth book of a series, there are a lot of conversations you've missed that people will likely want to follow up on. So, even more "backseat "
The Slayers Take episodes were one-off monster hunts. If a guest got the final blow, that wouldn't take away from anything. But imagine a guest finishing off one of the chroma conclave or the Briarwoods...that wouldn't feel too good.
@@Elaan021 I agree! But I also think in your book club example, it wouldn’t be very fun for the guest to have to take a back seat and let everyone else talk the entire time. They should get the chance to speak! Not the entire time, of course, but at least a little bit. A chance to participate and actually experience why the others like being a part of the “book club” so much. As a dm I wouldn’t give the killing blow to a major villain of a specific character to anyone else’s character - if I were the dm in the briarwood situation the killing blow would always go to Percy. It would feel bad if ANY other PC got to take that moment away from him. But I probably also wouldn’t invite a guest player over for that session. If I have a guest player, I want to make sure they have a little time in the sun, because otherwise what fun is it taking a backseat and just watching everyone else have fun?
I don’t think I noticed it until today, but my tangentially related comment is that I love when someone starts their video by asking the audience a question. It works for me and it’s a point of focus I come back to often in a way that’s like 8 milliseconds quicker than I would with the title ig 😭
OH MY DUT, DUT is back 😆
Since I an eternal DM, when I do play especially with an adventure I ran, I let the other players make major decisions. And I generally do a heal bot or straight tank build.
As to theme songs, even now with me running Golden Vault as a mission impossible group. I don’t run the theme songs more than 30 seconds.
Liking accommodating for the fact, you have Robbie in the cover
Many great guest characters in all 3 campaigns!
Great video but I don’t fully agree about the battle master point. It should maybe not be as complicated but fighter needs more choices other than do you want to hit the enemy more than once. In general I think martials need more depth
Mike: "I won't be showing any guest players that come after Episode 56."
Also Mike: Has Robbie Daymond in the video thumbnail.
It's weird seeing "baby" Tal.
Excellent examples of how (and how NOT) to behave as a guest player.
As to Garthok, from what I recall, he showed how to balance being a potentially adversarial guest PC with not hindering game play or plot flow.
Man, this is a good channel.
Keep up the great work, Mike!
Sorry to have an aside on a minor point made in the video, but the problem of battlemaster maneuvers being a lot for newer players so it shouldnt be built into the class is something I disagree with because I dont like that fighter is the "beginner" class, I think barbarian does a better job as a simple martial class, rage is easy to understand, and very satistfying to mitigate almost all earlygame damage by half, while swinging for a lot of damage, whereas the class meant to be a smart tactical fighter is meant to be the easy beginner option?
To route back to the point of the video, it was really good, a lot of good points I fully agree that as a guest your primary focus should be on highlighting those around you and basically being a support for the dm
I very much agree that battle master should not be a default fighter. A few too many moving parts to introduce a new player with.
My bf runs Curse of Strahd and im not typically in it, but i have popped in and out a half dozen times in the last 2 years. There is an NPC Arabella in the book that the adventure is ambiguous on if they become friend or foe, so i jumped in as her. Its fun because she technically has access to info the party may want, but has no reason to onow they might want it, so the DM uses my character to sometimes drop lore, or i might just show up to help in a fight
Spoilers Campaign 2 episode Hush
Shakäste did something really amazing. He used his character as a vehicle for world building. Besides being just a well realised character, his places in the world made it so much bette
Sad fact that some of the most memorable moments for me are the negative ones. Chris Hardwick being one of them, which I believe I commented on before when you covered that episode.
Another bad one is ...
*SPOILERS*
Joe Manganiello during the finale. I won't go into detail, but he fell firmly into the 'taking the spotlight' category with what he did after the epic battle, people who've seen it know what I'm talking about.
Nice vid but i disagree with your battlemaster manuever point.
My guest player met the party at a roadside inn on their way to the quest. Shenanigans ensued at the Inn for a full 3 hour session.
I pretty exclusively play my TTRPGs online due to my friend group being spread out around the States, but ooooh, those little critter dice sure are tempting! So cute! X3
Kash and Zara are such a wonderful couple
Given you've basically caught up to the animated show, do you intend to do any compare and contrasting with it and the original liveshow, or perhaps go through it as a "Lessons From Other Media"?
Ive not watched much CR since C1, i watched a few recent ones with robbie, he has the look of a player thats trying to have fun but feels beat up. Ive had some new feelings for the channel because of it.
Spurt the Kobold is the best guest character :-)
Honestly, he had the best impact of them all…
Nice
ELEVEN DAYS!
Third book wen
"Or every bank holiday" 😭
Great video, Mike. I’m only sad that you are doing this video now thus preventing you from commenting on Spurt. 11 Days!!!
Spoilers for Just Roll With It: Riptide episodes 68/68 pt 2
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Jonah Scott’s guest character Ichabod is another example of a great guest he comes in and has built his character to not overshadow the main trio but instead empower them to do better. He’s also the fatherly presence the three main characters need since they either don’t have a father figure or have a shitty father figure. He was also so beloved he came back for their sea shanty they created
Why’s Robbie even in the thumbnail if you’re not discussing anyone but guests from the first third of the first campaign only? As someone who’s only seen c2 & c3 it feels like clickbait.
I disagree strongly with the tragic backstory trope. The soldiers we sent to Afghanistan to risk their lives were not all tragic backstories. The Ukrainians fighting and dying to stem the Muscowite hordes are not all tragic backstories. The members of The French Foreign Legion are not all tragic backstories.
I think the difference there is that those are soldiers fighting for their nation. Not randomly abandoning their family to go on an adventure. Not to say a well adjusted person can't want to go on adventures, but it would be a lot harder decision to make to leave their family when they don't need to. Soldiers fight for the sake of their nation and therefore the protection of their loved ones. Going on an adventure for fun has nothing to do with protecting your family.
I think, in brief, my counterpoints would be; the soldiers sent to Afghanistan were just that, professional soldiers that are following the orders of a superior and not quite "adventurers" even though you can totally run an adventuring party as soldiers (though at least one of them will likely have a tragic "my parent/sibling died in this conflict and thats why I joined" background because...you know...thats kind of a thing? Moreso in the next point); the Ukrainian conflict is ALL tragic backstory, they aren't just fighting because some officer somewhere sent them to a far flung point of the world, it's literally an invasion of their home with people they know dead or dying a around, many of them may only have a shelled out building left as a home...the professional soldiers are there first by duty and second by choice, the rest of them are likely some greater mix of tragedy and choice followed by duty in my opinion; the French Foreign Legion I know far less about, but they are closer to mercenary adventurers I think? Probably the least likely to have a tragic backstory and more likely to just have that desire to see the world and right wrongs that we see young adventurers have, while the older veteran Legionnaires are probably more hardbitten and wise to the realities of right and wrong when you're still part of a military and political structure being handed orders.
@@Buunatic protecting your family from marauding Orcs, bandits and monsters? That is quite a lot of what adventurers do. Meanwhile, very few people went to Afghanistan and none in The Foreign Legion to protect their families. The ones without a tragic backstory go to make a difference in the world, test themselves and/or for money or career; few things are monocausal, and an acquiantance of mine that did not come back, went to Helmand for all except the money.
Battlemaster should be default Fighter because Fighter shpuldn't be presented as newbie-friendly class - BARBARIAN should.
Alternate take: No class should be designed as 'newbie friendly,' they should all be approachable at the early levels. The only way you're still a newbie if you've played long enough to get a few levels under a character is if you're not trying to learn.
Robbie is dreamy. 😍 Sorry for the random objectification, but... anything helps the algorithm. 🫣 Right?