Thoughts on the Novation Peak
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- čas přidán 26. 03. 2018
- Here in vlog-style are my thoughts on the Novation Peak hybrid synthesizer and how I think it might fit into my own sound generation needs. This video is in two parts - the first 15 minutes are my thoughts on this synth in comparison to the Behringer Model D, and the second 15 minutes are a direct comparison of basic sounds.
- Hudba
really enjoyed listening to your thoughts. you've got a great conversational tone!
I appreciate your perspective - thanks for a thoughtful commentary.
Interesting, I got the same impression as you of both Minilogue and Monologue in the store and was put off by them both immediately. I thought it was just me, but maybe it's in the way it behaves and requires more attention to get it to sound less "buzzy" and "brittle". Not familiar with Peak, but I use Novation Supernova and Nova desktop from the 1990's still as they have a unique sound to them. And I can say that their customer support is just fantastic. I bought both second hand and the Nova had some weird jamming and glitching issues at first. I emailed their customer support expecting a "sorry we can't do anything", but they diagnosed it as a faulty ROM chip. Then they sent me a new one that day for free and after a installing that new chip the synth started to work perfectly! That was them supporting a 14 year old product (at that time).. didn't expect that and was highly impressed.
Wow, it's good to hear that about Novation's customer support. Yes on hard sounding analogue synths, I think Arturia have got a bit of a similar reputation with their Brute series, it was interesting to hear how they have listened to feedback and made attempts to make their latest Minibrute 2 sound more mellow...
Pasi Keränen Love the Monologue myself....got 2.
I think that is the appeal of the logues. They are noisy and great for lo-fi sounds.
zerix01 I get weird wild tones out of mine. One of my favorote is the "telephone dial tones" patch i made
The thing with Minilogue is that it is not designed to be a copy of warm vintage poly synth, it has it' own voice and character. But it can sound warm and vintage, you should check Adam Borseti's channel czcams.com/video/8Tkmvfmunpc/video.html
Thanks very much for making this video. I've been considering getting a Peak, so getting to hear it with this level of detail is incredibly helpful.
This is unbelievably helpful, I was going to buy a model D but after a payment problem (buying synths in Hong Kong is not easy) my only other option was a prologue, a matrix brute or a peak. You've given me the confidence to go for the peak! Great videos, thanks.
Two suggestions for even more "Model D" style sound on the peak: 1. The original Minimoog is built in such a way that the filter is overdriven. There is a pre-filter overdrive function in the peak that should help to get closer to the desired sound. 2. Analyse the waveforms of the Model D in order to create custom wavetables for the peak.
Thanks a lot for this amazing work, comparing the synths!
your videos are so clear and informative!
The Model D sounds a bit brighter/sharper - but the Peak has an interesting character as well. Loved both sounds, thanks for sharing this!
Good A/B, thanks. More impressed w Peak every time I hear it.
Thank you for creating this video.appreciate your insight and thoughts.
Purchased a Peak, I've been using novation since 2003. Great build quality and sound. Only having the peak a week now I can't give you a good or bad review but I have not had a bad word to say about it. I'm learning all the menus and features of what makes this synth so great.
Love how you couldn't resist the urge, and still went on to polychain the model D :D
You answered me a lot of question with this video. Thanks.
Smarts, skills and patience. Thank you!
Very good video. Interesting and informative.
I started playing synths when the original Moog Model D was introduced. That first model was very sensitive to temperature change and was not suited for live performance in venues where the room temperature varied. I sold it to a guy that had a recording studio, it was a constant temp and worked better there. Fast forward to the Behringer Model D, its pure analog and it's going to drift out of tune. Its the nature of the beast. I'm interested in the Novation Peak because it has a new kind of OSC, is more stable, and sounds excellent. Sounding cleaner for certain sounds is better, and playing live with a synth that is not in tune doesn't work for me. I like a little cleaner sound, and can mess around with my vintage analog synths in my music room when I feel like it. I will have to get the $$$$ together to get the Peak, but that synth is more in line with what I need. Great comparison, thank you.
I'm a huge fan of overly precise with the option to lessen that precision (like DCOs or NCOs with a "slop" control). It's always easier to add that variation back in when it's wanted than it is to get rid of when it's unwanted.
Excellent comparison work explained well.
Thanks
Bought the Summit today. Thank you for your fantastic in-depth analysis reviews. They are spot on! 😎👍🎵🎶🎹❤️
How is the summit so far?
Good review. Novation and Nord have both been making pretty fantastic synths for a while now. They easily cover healthy approximations of analogue synth sounds and serve as springboard onto new unexplored sonic territory via digital or w.h.y.
Not only that but Novation and Nord make instruments with personalities and useful quirks. Meaning each musician's personality and quirk subset come out beautifully. It's all about digging in past the (usually) horrid factory presets and (usually) superficial demos you might run into on CZcams, etc.
Don't take anyone's word or judgment on gear, most especially marketing and sales reps. Dig in, build up your own Brain Rolodex of design traits & consequences. Etc.
The more synths you get to know over your lifetime, the better you will be working with new formats and technologies.
YMMV
There is a very annoying bug in the Peak that people almost never talk about: when you turn the key tracking all the way up, the maximum possible filter cutoff value decreases significantly, so the synth loses a lot of top end buzz. You can try it yourself by fully opening the filter, playing a sawtooth wave and doing a sweep with the filter tracking knob. You will notice the top end returning once the filter tracking is all the way down. One possible workaround for this is to set up a constant filter mod in the mod matrix. +27 seems to resolve it based on my experience.
Great video Tim, thanks!
To me, I prefer how the Peak's waves are initially as they should be and you can tweak from that true square to reach Model-D hybrids, for example. The only limit with a machine of this caliber is the user. A Model-D is plug-and-play warm synth sounds but extremely limited and the tuning issue is a huge pain for recording. The Peak has the pure sound along with the option for Model-D sounds with a tiny bit of tweaking and limitless potential beyond that. Digital couldn't quite achieve this in the past, but the Peak is exceptional and a sign that the resurgence of analog synths has finally forced modern manufacturers of digital synths to get creative. Competition is a wonderful thing.
Beautifully said.
This is great. Learned a lot about my Peak with this video. Thank you!
Hello. Nice comparison!
I own some nice poly synths:
a juno 60,prophet 6, supernova 2 and few great plugins(diva, legend, obsession).
I know that peak is a more caoable synth in terms of editing and programming but...what is your opinion of its sound and tone compared to the synths i mentioned?
Great informative video. Now you can control Omnisphere with it makes it very special now.
Yes indeed. I'm very keen to try out the implementation that Spectrasonics have developed for the Peak.
Thanks for this video Tim. I've been chasing the Model D sound too and after a mate who tried the poly chain reported "disaster" steered away from that. I moved to a Poly D, knowing the paraphony wasn't going to work for me but just to have a "model D" with keys. I liked it. This week I had a feeling the Novation Peak was the one for me and your video has firmed up that decision.
@THOM AlphaXIII and Tim, I was thinking exactly the same thing. But as ever, you pays your money and makes your choice. The Peak is certainly a great piece of kit that will surely reward careful exploration. Enjoy your purchase, Tim!
Did you end up finding a solution to chaining all of these together to do super-polyphony?
Have you had a chance to try a Hydrasynth? If you have, I’d like to know which you prefer.
Thanks.
Your tips on how to 'Moogify' the digital oscillators are highly appreciated :) I don't own a Peak, but I do have an Alesis Micron VA-synth that has a host of analogue filter emulations among them a Moog ladder one. I discovered that exponential envelope curves are also key to the Moog sound!
Ya the d never quite fully evaporates in those sequence demos
I think you need to add more pre-filter drive for the square waves to work like on the Model D.
Really excited about the Peak, unfortunately I just can't see when I will be able to get one.
I would of waited because I can see behringer making a Moog poly given very little extra work would be needed to make this possible & quite literally a true poly Moog is very much a dream machine for most ....patience is a virtue I’m told but I can’t wait either two ordered !
Convinced, I've order one. Thanks for honest review.
Great review and comparison
I generally find mixing in a little white noise, even if it's not really audible, does nice things. Especially if you have resonance on the filter, it'll give you more of that soft washy character. If you still have the Peak, you should give that a try. I often do that on my Minilogue to make it subtly softer. I always thought of the Minilogue as a warm synth, but now that you mention it I guess it is warm in a big way rather than in a soft way.
oh the model D sounds really golden!
Thanks for making these videos. I'm new to synths so I have a question. Could you patch in a eurorack device or something and multiple oscillators to make the model d Polyphonic?
Yes you can definitely play multiple monophonic sound sources together as if they are one polyphonic instrument. You would need to utilise a device that can take a midi signal and split out the individual notes, one example is a eurorack module called Yarns by Mutable Instruments. I have a video that talks about it here: czcams.com/video/qCjw_51ZKHc/video.html
I think Yarns is running about $369 USD (new). Are there less expensive modules that do something similar? Though I gotta say, Yarns looks VERY impressive.
Hi Bob, Have you taken a look at Doepfer? i have not bought one myself but they have quite a range of midi interfaces (A-190-??) and even the higher-end units seem to be very well priced (well at least here in EU).
Thanks, Tim. The A-190-4 looks good.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I'm using my D mostly for bass sounds so maybe that's why I haven't had an issue with the tuning going out of whack. The Peak is absolutely on my list but I'm trying to keep myself from buying more gear - I picked up a whole lot over the last six months
I'm having to slow down too. It's great to have a lot of new gear to play with, but it also can be a bit overwhelming (not to mention expensive).
Thanks ...got a lot from this !Love my peak also!.....
What’s a wiser investment for desktop synth sound design, Hydra or Peak?
Model D sounds like an organic instrument, amazing sound
Have you tried the Pro1 Behringer too? Both are wow
does the model d listen to velocity? can you use note velocity to open the filter for example? thanks
Charles Cowper No the D's midi implementation is basic, it detects the note on and note off events but does not detect the velocity at which the note was played. There are some midi control sequences it understands to perform some configuration settings but they are not performance related.
I just got the peak as an update of my blofield (sy1th that I really loved!!) and I'm really happy. I ended up also replacing my miniloque for a sequential Take 5 for my analogue sounds.
I am curious to know if your OSC Levels are all at 50% for these patches or were they just positioned like that for this demonstration?
This was wonderful. Thank you.
+TimShoebridge you can use the filter cut off control voltage to do a coordinated filter sweep across as many Model D units as you need or want to... use a powered mutliple to replicate the filter cv signal and then input your filter sweep cv into that. Simple.
Chaining together several Model D's would probably not give your what you wanted or expected, the Peak is a very good polysynth, for poly, and the Model D is a very good mono synth, for mono duties. Did you try a bit of distortion to get closer to the model D? Also it sounds a bit like there is some stereo at play on the peak, what happens if you just pan the peak to right? Great demo and really good review. I have both of these machines as well, I think they compliment each other very well. They have sort of that mellow+analog feel to them, I found the chorus to be extremely good on the peak as well.
I find switching on Osc Sync (in the Osc page) fattens up a Saw wave patch hugely, when using more than one oscillator. Bizarrely, this synth does seem to sound weaker when using more than one (un-synced) oscillator - but sync them up and it's a monster!
Well done. Thank you.
On comparisons like this, would an oscilloscope be also helpful? Thumbs up.
yeah, I love my Summit, the big one double Peak.... Its so an amazing Synth
Thank you .Is the model D alone when it comes to re calibration or is this an issue with other instruments ? Modular ?
Hi. Recalibration is only really a consideration for polyphonic synths and multi-oscillator mono synths where the tuning between oscillators is more critical. Modular synth modules are mostly single oscillator, but yes you can definitely run into tuning issues playing multiple modules at the same time. The Behringer Model D oscillators are a very faithful recreation of the original Moog oscillators and they were inherently unstable in terms of tuning. As many people commenting here will attest to, this instability is what adds to their appeal and helped to make the original Model D the icon that it became.
@@TimShoebridge Thank you for your helpful clarification .I just viewed a presentation of the Buchla history ,Synthplex .They are expensive ! Perhaps worth saving for ?
Damn. I was planning to get the Model D first and the peak later. But this video showed me, that I should first save up for the peak and maybe get the model D later if I still feel the need for a gritty analogue mono synth. Thanks for this video! You earned a subscribe ;)
But really weird they did not include diverge in the destination parameters for the modulation matrix. Never understood why they do not put nearly all parameters in there. At least I could not think of any technical reason for this.
Funny...I am starting with a Korg Minilogue (and I like the snarly sounds it can make, because I am perhaps a bit more noise oriented than you are) too and some other inexpensive synths that are perhaps easier to work with than the Minilogue. But the problem I am running into is that none of my synths have multiple LFOs, and it is holding me back from creating some sounds that I want to make. So I am looking for something with LFOs. I think that the Peak might be the answer. First I am going to try layering two synths, using one oscillator and LFO on each and see how it works, but in the end I think the simplicity of the Peak will probably be the answer. For your problem, I think you are 100% spot on!!! What a pain it would be to try to replicate a sound on four separate Model Ds...and the tuning!!! :O
Hello, me again, I already commented another of your videos. Now I would like to ask a question: is that detuning issue on the Model D actually that serious? I mean, does it really interrupt your work every couple of hours? By the way, I didn't hear any detuning there, but that's because my ears aren't that finetuned as yours are. So, would you consider that as a dealbreaker, because I'm about to get a Model D along with the Behringer Neutron probably within this year (by the way, is there a detuning issue on the Neutron as well, since it also has analog oscillators?). Regarding the Peak I actually don't enjoy it's sound as much in that direct comparison with the Model D, that you did, and the price is a little bit too high for my taste. Sometimes I think, that all synth or gear addictives (including me) are looking again for new gear, unfortunately, no matter how great the current purchases are..
Hi. The detuning issue of my Model D has definitely got worse over the last couple of months, and I have read similar comments online from other Model D users who were lucky to get their Model D's early like me. If I am composing and I need to re-tune every two hours then it is a problem, because I really need to undo my current settings such as modulations / envelopes and any deliberate detune in order to re-tune each oscillator properly. And of course, if I want to switch octave ranges then I now need to re-tune immediately. I do not believe my Model D has a fault, I just think it needs to be recalibrated and this something I just need to factor into the maintenance of owning one.
Thanks for answering, very helpful for future decisions!
Brilliant video
good to know it stacks up with the warmth of the model d
Hello tim ! Do you have anormal noise output with the peak as somebody says or it is fixed with firmware today ?
Hi Paul, I never noticed any noise issues with my Peak
@@TimShoebridge ok thank you !
Superb! - currently considering the *Peak* and this video has been very informative and also quite an eye-opener / ear-opener.
Thank you
Very interesting and incredibly helpful! Sadly, it totally convinced me not to buy a Peak. To my ears the two still sound miles apart, but not in a good way for the Peak, which is a pity.
to me both patches sounds crapy. and why do they has to sound the same.. they are 2 total different machines. the peak has so much more to offer than this lame patch.. i think hes pretty bored over there
Interesting. Thanks for sharing...
It really sounds like the Behringer Model D is prone to detuning itself. You mentioned that in the start of your video, and it's readily apparent, throughout the course of the video.
I own a Moog Voyager XL, and I'm wondering (as far as you know), are they also prone to such detune, over time?
P.S. Thanks for making this video! :D I've just ordered a Peak, for much the same purpose as you. A polysynth to pair with my mono synth. :P
Hi. I am no expert on electronics, maybe others can comment, but definitely all analogue oscillator circuits will progressively detune over time and need recalibration. I am surprised how quickly the Behinger has deteriorated tbh, I guess this must at least be part due to the choice of component materials and not just the design...
Interesting, I had the same problems to replicate the square wave of the Model D with the Peak.
I end up to dial in some amount of shape So the Model D square wave seems not to be full symmetrical.
I think it's the same as with the original Minimoog.
Maybe it helps to get the square wave to clip a little bit?
I bet you could make the Peak sound even closer by turning on the glide a tiny tiny bit....and also backing off the attack a tiny tiny bit.
Have you tried the Monostation?
Thanks for sharing
An interesting review, and some excellent sound examples. I'm not sure that you can compare these two synths beyond the oscillator sections though. And the PEAK oscillators are really only part of the story there. The model D is, well, a model D clone, and PEAK is an 8 voice hybrid polysynth with built in FX and a broad pallet of sound design potential. I tried both these at superbooth last year - the model D sounded very vanilla to me at that time, and I fell in love with PEAK, so finally bought one a few weeks later. Why, well I needed a polysynth and this was the one that inspired me the most. Found the Dave Smith, Korg options and the Deep Mind really very uninspiring, but I know others that love the DS & Korg stuff - although not actually 'met' anyone who rates the Deep Mind yet - I think they got the aesthetics completey wrong on that, an instrument should be enticing and invite you to play it after all. But as with all sound related tools & instruments, it's a very personal thing. But great that you and others take the time to produce this content - we all benefit and appreciate.
Thanks for your comments and experiences. And yes I fully agree with you about the DeepMind interface, I found it totally alien, was flummoxed by it for months and nearly sold it. But it was the sound that really won me over and I persisted with it until I got used to it enough. I hope to do a couple of videos on it at some point in the coming months.
I love my Peak, great vid. The drift in the model D is a little alarming to me, think I'll hold out for the neutron with the hopes the vco being different would be better. I hope people understand they need to hear this first hand, video simply does not do it justice. My evolver was my first analog synth and I was skeptical about that whole 'analog sound'. I thought people were crazy and wanted to believe it so bad that the price made them hear it. I was proven wrong, it is different, it is better. I also believe Novation hit the mark with the cycle rate because an analog is not limited it just goes, which is why a lot of digital synths sounds like thin crap. It's like a film with 7-9 framerate, there is a stutter that makes your eyes disbelieve it, so it looks 'fake'. After a certain cycle rate, I believe our ears are good with it, smooth warm sound waves. My peak is permanent, I consider it one of my best purchases.
Do you still use and own the Peak ? Wondering since you have added so many synths since posting this video.
messing around with the shape amount on each of the osc will also give you some "detuned" butteriness
You are sort of radical about analog vs digital but great using it changed your mind, at least you gave it a proper chance.
The Minilogue does have a bright sound that can be an acquired taste, but it's not because the oscillators are digitally controlled. They are VCOs.
It feels to me the power of the Peak is not stated enough in most reviews, even with Novation themselves. It really seems to be one of a very small amount of digital synths that are so powerful and capable of blurring the lines between digital and analogue to such a degree than has been done previously - would you agree? It has what I love about Omnisphere but more powerful and in hardware form. I'm pretty set on it being my first hardware synth.
Yes I do think the Peak does blur the boundary between analogue and digital synths exceedingly well. But let's face it, there is an awful amount of digital processing in many of the so-called pure analogue synths being manufactured today, but that amount of "digitalisation" is down-played by the manufacturers since analogue is so popular while digital is frowned upon. I think it may be this mood in the market combined with the power of opinions on social media that might make reviewers and Novation themselves tread carefully before speaking out too loud-and-proud about the Peak. I personally think the synth needs to speak for itself and for musicians to showcase what it can do and show by example how good the synth really can sound.
Interestingly, I got my Peak. I've spent a lot of time tinkering with it, and then comparing it to Omnisphere. I realised that the differences between them aren't enough to justify the cost of the Peak for me, plus I was missing the flexibility that I can get with Omnisphere. Not that it doesn't sound great, and it definitely has it's own sound. It just doesn't sound that much more superior/different on the digital side and the analogue side doesn't seem to make as much of a difference to me.
Mattieval Fully understand. Omnisphere is a massive synth and so powerful. It’s fundamentally sample based so it is going to be extremely hard for any hardware synth to compete with if you are happy with a 100% software workflow. I have been waiting a very long time for something new from Spectrasonics, maybe one day it will come :)
I thought I'd prefer the hardware based workflow, but it turned out not to be the case.
I think Omnisphere is due for an update, definitely. I do plan on getting Keyscape and then the 1200 Keyscape Creative (Keyscape/Omnisphere patches) patches they have, it seems to be really powerful. Hopefully next on their agenda is an Omnisphere update.
It seems like you've gotten your wish somewhat, with the new 2.5 Omnisphere update!
I love your honesty about everything. I think if more people were honest about analog v digital they would be way more happy with the gear they have and have less GAS. Just how similar they can be solo... just imagine with added effects and put in a mix. I imagine they would be indistinguishable. I’m of the opinion that high quality digital osc synths (particularly ones with analog filters) can sound as analog as you want with so many more sound options and benefits. Whenever I do a side by side with an analog v my Summit or even my Fantom, I can get close enough to justify keeping what I have and not needing to purchase more. And I hate tuning oscillators and love presets 🤷🏻♂️. But great video. Oh, I agree about the minilogue too. I returned it and got a used DM12 for the same price and never regretted it. 3 times the voices and immeasurable more modulation options. I really don’t see how anyone could choose the minilogue over a DM12, or many other synths in that price range... if they only have the money for one. Anyway, after being honest about my gear and focusing more on synths as various sonic options, I sold most of my analog. I’m happy with the Fantom for Roland-y sounds, the Summit for a bit of everything and wavetable pads/sound, and I have a Prophet ‘08 I run through the Summit’s effects for that Sequential sound. I’ve actually never had a Moog. I don’t know, they seem overly expensive for the limited modulation options they offer. 🤷🏻♂️
Analog V? You mean Aturia Analog lab V collection? Well obviously for £800 for V collection you get all those keyboard emulations is gona have a massively more diverse sound capability then a single physical sythersizor at £1000.
First of all a big compliment for your review. It´s one of the few I really enjoyed to watch. Ah - and by the way: a sequence in 9/8 is quite refreshing.
I made similar experiences with Korg stuff as well. It sounded like - well, like plastic to me. Don´t know how to express it in a different way. And I came to the same conclusion that the Peak could be the right synth for me. Now I´m thinking of the Hydrasynth but I´m not quite sure.
what did u end up choosing?.. because im in the same situation myself
@@ChazSeamus28
I chose the Hydra module because of it´s endless possibilities and it´s huge sound. The Summit is a beast of a synth and I would have bought it instantly instead of the Hydra but it´s only available in it´s keyboard version but 5 octaves are too limited for me.
Gosh - there are so many interesting synths out there almost at the same time.
@@anonymusum oh cool.. im really trying to get that analog sound without having to tune oscillators.. how does the hydra do when it comes to analog emulation? isnt it more of a wavetable synth.. i must admit that keyboard and touch strip are making me very interested in the hydrasynth not to mention the polyphonic aftertouch.
@@ChazSeamus28
Let me say you first that I love analog synths, but in the end we should realize that there´s a analog hysteria since some years. Analog = great, digital = bad or at least less great. But the only thing that´s important to me is the sound, not the synth engine. So I still like my Waldorf Micowaves as well as my Oberheim XPander. The Hydra can sound pretty analog but pretty digital as well and it can sound huge. Or it can sound like an analog synth plus a wavetable synth combined. It´s hard to describe. I´m just scratching the surface right now and I already have the impression that this is the most versatile synth I ever had. I guess if it would be a DSI synth it would cost about 5000,-
The aftertouch is great and the ribbon is fun, but the real deal is the huge amount of oscillators and waves - it´s kinda endless. I tried the new Korg wavetable synth out and compared them both, that Korg synth felt like a joke. The only downside - at least ro me - is the fact that it´s made in China. I´m not a Trumpist or something else at all bu I made some bad experiences with China stuff. But the Hydra really feels like a very solid synth. I guess it´s more than a bargain.
I was hoping the deep mind 12 would be that "one stop shop" synth for me but unfortunately there is a weird samey sound that comes with many DM12 patches. Maybe it's the filter or the thin sounding oscilators but it just hasn't been able to do what I need. and if I were to get a Rev2 or Prolouge I would eventually hit a wall where there are some sounds I wouldn't be able to achieve or it would sound too much like that synth.
Peak, from the various videos I've watched of patch making and demos seems to be very versatile. Can do fat basses, expressive leads, pads, truly amazing FX section and those oscillators do not sound digital to me at all. Maybe I'm fooling myself subcocniosuly but I listen to the oscillators in videos and then the oscillators of the DM12 and those sound thin and VA-like.
So I may sell all my synths and get a peak or wait for another model if they are going to release one.
Hi, From my own experiences with a DM12 I do agree with you on the thin sound. Most of the preset patches heavily rely on FX for depth. I have held back from criticising that synth, it is amazing value for money and there are many people out there who love the DM series of synths, but I do not personally consider it an all-rounder synth which is what it sounds you are looking for.
The Peak is awesome.
Instead of 3 Md's I am using ONE Microbrute sampled into a 1010Music BlackBox. High and low pass filter, detuning, panning, and so build up a 3 sample synth on the BB. left, right and center sound design from the MicroBrute...THEN....the BB adds 4 note poly. The BB (blackbox) is an incredible sounding sampler with fantastic ADC and DAC and hot preamps on outputs. Output is pro level and is just sounds wonderful. Sound design on a sampler....probably only possible on the BB because of the sound quality.
Is the D particularly bad when it comes to tuning? Doesn't poly chain not allow you to control all 4 synths parameters using just one? The way you describe the minilogue I found with the prophet 08. I'm not sure i'll like the Peak's sound but it's very hard to get decent modulation options with a poly even if you're spending £2000+ It's also very nice to have good built in multi effects as effects are often a big part of the sounds I like to make. Where did you hear about the option to make it 16 voice? My honest opinion of your saw oscillator comparison is that the D sounds so much better - the novation sounds flat and and dull as opposed to buzzy and bright. I was really very surprised how different they are. With the next sound once the filter is lowered they become much closer. As much as I love the novations features and design the sound is just inferior for me so i'm not sure I can buy it.
Hi, From my experience the Model D's might get worse in terms of tuning with use. After the initial warm-up I would only re-tune my Model D once every hour when it was new, but after some months of owning it I'm doing it far more often, maybe three times an hour or more. What I need to do is re-calibrate it and that will improve the situation a little. However I recently bought a number of additional Model D units and they are all pretty poor at keeping tune. ie. my original unit does not stand out at being particularly worse.
I never owned a Moog Model D so I can not comment as to how the Behringer compares in terms of tuning, but I do have other vintage synths from the 70's and early 80's and they go out of tune A LOT! It's that constant drift and unpredictability of the circuitry that gives such an appealing sound. The Peak has rock-solid circuitry, it has some algorithms to introduce drift but as you can hear they do not match the Model D. As always, it is a compromise over sound versus practicality. If you are making music as a hobby then re-tuning is not an issue, but if you are writing music professionally or gigging live then it is another story.
Poly-chaining does not help with the tuning issue of course and it is of only limited help when controlling multiple units. I made a video on poly-chaining if you're interested, but be warned it is very long and possibly a little tedious!! czcams.com/video/XSah0pb7JAQ/video.html
I'm kind of surprised the moog D has vintage like tuning issues given it uses oscillator chips rather than discrete. Not that I claim to know much about electronics at all. I thought the generally hallmark of modern analog was that it is very stable? Do you think they've deliberately designed them to behave like vintage oscillators with the associated drawbacks too? If so it's quite genius as most manufactures play is safe and go for solid tuning with some kind of basic 'slop' algorithm. You'd have thought with the DSP technology they put into it that Novation could provide a more rich and convincing analog sound. The 'destabilising' algorithm perhaps needs improving as I've certainly got plugins i'm sure sound more convincing.
That's a good question about modern chip design. So many so-called analog synths built today actually have DCO's and not a 100% analog signal path. The BMD is an exception so comparisons are not always appropriate. I have some modern eurorack oscillators that are VCO's plus some all-analog Dreadbox semi-modular gear, they do tend to drift out of tune quite often. My feeling is that the BMD is worse but not by much. To be honest I will need to do some experimentation and be a bit more scientific about a comparison. Maybe the subject for a future video! ;)
@@TimShoebridge That would be a very interesting video. I'd love to see it. I don't know much about it other than some use discreet and some use chips. Are there different kinds of discrete? Is all discrete through hole and without chips? I'm not sure how far some of it is marketing and manufacturers claim discrete when they actually aren't. Do you mean some manufacturers claiming to use VCOs and an all analog signal path actually aren't? I've only really owned one synth that I really love the sound of which is supposed to be discrete analog (Future Retro XS). I don't particularly like the sound of the chip based DSI synths even though they say they are analog they seem to have quite a precise hi-fi sound with a certain hashness or grit. Maybe it's not the chips though it's just the design? Is the behringer D chip based because to me it certainly doesn't sound what I'd normally associate without chips.I find when a synth is digitally controlled it often impacts things negatively although I'm not denying some plugins sound superb (often better than some modern analog synths). The XS synth is similar to the Behringer in that there isn't really any apart from a midi to CV converter. I'm very interested in learning more about synthesiser technology and why they sound different.
Made In Machines all very good points and interesting stuff! I too am interested/fascinated by it all and still have a hard time nowadays finding just a really nice analogue synth.
As soon as you said "buy 3 more Md's....I was OMG, you got to be kidding. What you did not mention is the need for a high pass filter when playing poly with these huge oscillators to control the muddiness in poly. Then as you mentioned, tuning IS insane. There are so many better choices for poly's. When going poly a digital is an advantage, we WANT a thinner sound for poly. I have been using the Roland Gaia for almost 10 years now....it is fantastic....imagine 3 oscillators each with their own filter/amp/LFO and filter envelope. I added an analog 10 band graphic EQ to the Gaia for more shaping and overloading the signal a little and so getting a smoother warmer sound by simply boosting all the bands to max a +12db.
Don't know if it's just youtube but the Peak def is missing some of the sparkle and brilliance of the model d.
I'm still seriously considering the peak as it obviously has a lot to offer as a poly synth but I have been concerned about the sound of the digital ocsilators and now I think I really need to hear one in person to be sure before I drop 1200 quid on one.
P.s. great video, you've got a new subscriber.
The oscillators are honestly great, they're oversampled to fuck (24 megahertz) so aliasing isnt an issue, and you can use the drift function to give it that old slightly broken analogue feel.
to my limited ears sounds as if the D's high's and low's are more accentuated to begin with. might EQ help cover some of this difference ?
The old say goes "If you want a synth that sounds like a Moog, buy a Moog", Moog has the Subsequent 37 available right now, and it is a scaled down Mini Moog, 3 Octave KB for $1500.00. Paraphonic. Not what I want. I'd rather a Poly synth that sounds good and I can play chords on it. I like the sound of the Peak, the sound can be massaged. It doesn't have to sound like a Behringer or a Moog. It sounds like a Novation.
When I played one of these at the store I was taken away by the power of the Peak. Id say the price-point can make it a hard sell but I think it will be really sought after as time goes on. Also interesting to know about the Model D's oscillator de-tuning issues... I may have experienced this before but ill keep an ear out for it.
Marshal Arnold has a CZcams demonstration of the calibration process for the Behringer D. Behringer has one as well. The process seems a little less intimidating when you've seen it done a few times by two different people.
czcams.com/video/nrZdzyMyr6I/video.html
Thanks a lot for sharing that link, it will definitely help my confidence to see someone walk through the process.
Highly recommend the tuning. I went through each step a few times over and it took about 30 minutes but now everything sounds perfect. Well worth the time, I'm not sure they tune them much if at all from the factory.
I’d argue that you’re comparing apples to pears here and I really appreciate it! Because it’s just a matter of perspective whether it is valuable or not to compare the two (or an analogue mono to a digital poly synth in that regard).
Thanks.
Anybody else getting distortion even when playing standard 1 voice wavetable?? Is my unit broken or is this just how Peak sounds?
Wow I can't help but notice how much more high end have the Model D oscillators compared to the Peak. It's a pity, given that the Peak's oscillators could achieve the same with no effort. Would be cool if a firmware update provided extra "brighter" square and sawtooth waves in the "others" section, while keeping the original ones obviously.
For me Model D is similar to TyrellN6 in VST world, great raw sound, but needs some processing, seems like it needs pedal for saturation to reduce some harshness in high end
Thanks, interesting view. Never considered the Model D. Apart from oscillator drift it seems to me also that the envelopes are drifting (is that possible?), the release is clearly different from the Peak. I had similar thoughts on the Peak as you in the beginning from what I heard on YT, the presets are a bit underwhelming. But by now find it an interesting machine that doesn’t have such a distinct hybrid character as one might suppose. Can sound pretty fat (not a Moog tho) and warm. I think we should really credit that to its designer Chris Huggett. Thumbs up.
You know, it's really weird, but lately, I have been hearing really expensive synths and other drum machines from today, and I do like some things, but most of it just sounds very similar to eachother. I noticed that I am going further back in time to find the sounds for me. I have a Roland jd xi, and the sounds on it sound almost better than really expensive gear, and even though there isn't many that sound so great, I find myself going back to it. I just can't stand to be on a DAW or computer. I know that there is a wider, more sonically sounding capabilities on a DAW, but I would rather have less than more. I would just like a couple great sounds, and not so many of them, because then it becomes too overwhelming, everytime. I'm looking for something with really great hardware sounds and drums, but not too much...SBN
rev2 desktop 8 voices perhaps could have been a serious alternative also for the price. thx for your videos btw
Yes absolutely. The demos I have heard of the Rev2 sound amazing. It definitely sounds more than capable.
Yes buying four model d is the way to go😳
You need to get 4 slim Phattys , they can be daisy chained and you only have to dial in one and it changed the other three. It’s the easiest route to moog polyphony other than purchasing the moog one.
Polychaining you can do the filter sweep , it’s pretty cool
I was looking at the Novation summit. But I just can’t handle all the sounds/presets it has like you say nothing pulls me towards this synth. Yet I hear the OB6 and the prophet 6 just sings. 1850 for the summit. I have a virus TI just got tbe matriarch as you sold that to me with your videos. And I have the dSI pro 2 and pro 3 on order and subsiquent 37. But I just can’t see my self going for the peak or summet
how are you rating virus TI compared to the other synths you have?
@@piotr803 they are all very different I love the virus and all the other synths. I also do like what the summet has I wish I had more space
Some of the rhetoric on this thread is quite beyond me...sure I can hear a slight variation in the timbre of the sounds but they're not "miles apart" by any stretch. Quite informative and fun to dial in own my own Peak.
Even with the CZcams audio, this video shows that the Peak doesn't have the life or sizzle of the D. No great surprise really. I think trying to get D sounds out of the Peak is futile really, you have to play to a synth's strengths. The Peak strikes me as a modern DW8000. Good digi waves through nice analogue filters and stereo effects. It's an interesting comparison though, so thanks for doing it. As you have explained, this is a test of "does this Peak stand up to the D?". I think it will certainly complement it, but if you really want the analogue heft and life of the D in a poly I would recommend the Vermona Perfourmer Mk2 or the forthcoming Behringer OB-Xa clone.
Poly-chaining D's does seem to be unproven at the moment, and anyone managing it still needs an external mixer. Lack of a MIDI indicator is another usability obstacle. The Perfourmer handles all that side very neatly. If Vermona made a 2 osc per voice version I would definitely get one.
I agree with your comments about the Minilogue. Some people can make it sound good but it certainly has an oddness to it. The new Prologue sounds like it could be better but I'm not trusting Korg with that amount of my money!
rockmanrock Yes I definitely agree on the futility of trying to recreate exactly the sounds and I am conscious that it might come across in the video that I'm trying too hard to do that. Even taking the oscillators out of the equation for a moment, the amps and filters have different responses and different drives, the envelopes create different slopes, they are two different synths entirely. You hit the nail on the head, "complimentary" is indeed a very good way to describe the Peak vs Model D. I have not looked at the Vermona, will definitely check it out. Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it.
Came for the Peak, stayed for the model D
To my ears the Peak sounds much better...
Love Tim's videos but I'm really confused why you dedicated a whole video comparing an analog monosynth to a waiverable polysynth
He explains that pretty thoroughly for the first 10 minutes of the video. He was planning on polychaining 4 analog monosynths, but that wasn't practical, so he wanted to see if he could get a similar sound from a wavetable polysynth. That's a pretty good reason to compare, I think.
If you freeze it at 0:14 you can kinda see a Moog logo
If I had the room I would have a Peak and Sequential Circuits Prophet rev 2.
Totally agree! Well, for me it would be if I had the money, as well as the room! ;)
6.45 for peak talk