What I love most about Beethoven is that he always did the unexpected, confounding listeners not only with his resetting of the rules but with the sheeer genious with which he accomplished it. Sometime, I swear I could hear him laughing at listeners' reactions. Your channel is required watching for anyone interested in expanding their understanding of music.
@themusicprofessor great analysis I love playing the sonata pathetique myself, iam humbly speaking, mostly a self taught pianist from the age of 15yrs old, iam 53 yrs old now, thanks to this video I now realise that I need to put more pedal when iam playing especially in the allegro di molto con brio, It adds more drama and helps to increase the sound and makes the tone a lot more richer, I use the pedal in the 2nd movement of the pathetique a little in the 3rd movement many thanks and greetings from wales uk 😀
Many thanks. Beethoven's music, which has been a lifelong companion and healer to me thus far in my 62 years, will be even more special now. Subscribed and hoping to find some music theory lessons somewhere amongst your videos. Thanks again/Diolch eto
My favorite sonata. I cannot tell you how much accomplishment I felt when I finally believed I nailed it. That my old former college professor agrees meant more than anything in the world.
Fascinating analysis! Beethovens Pathetique is definitely one of my favourite sonatas of all time. There is such incredible drama and complexity involved in the piece, Beethoven never fails to impress me. Excellent explanation Professor, and playing as well!
Excellent job at illuminating Beethoven's compositional skills that make the bold gestures and modern sound (at that time) of the Pathetique Sonata convincing and palatable, even to an audience mostly accustomed to the style galant.
Even before Beethoven, it was common to "recompose" the recap. You can see recomposed recaps written out explicitly in CPE Bach’s sonatas, as well as in Mozart's, although Mozart likely relied more on spontaneous decoration and improvisation over the written material. At least that's what I understood from Robert Levin
I'll be brief. I really enjoyed your analysis. I've been playing this (sort of poorly) since my teens, now in my early(ish) 40s. Lastly, the Ben Shapiro meme broke me. Well done sir.
Thank you for giving us your insights Professor! Very interesting and informative video. I also want to give a shoutout to your editor. Really excellent job! I feel as though much of the first and third movements of this sonata are indeed an echoing of the C Minor Partita. As far as whether or not, in the first movement, we should go back to the beginning, something curious is that Andras Schiff mentioned that he had heard Rudolf Serkin do so as opposed to just repeating the Allegro like most people, and that Serkin’s interpretation had convinced him. As you mentioned, unfortunately there is no manuscript (so it becomes a never-ending debate much like the A natural vs A sharp in the Hammerklavier). I had always just repeated the Allegro myself, but after listening to Schiff’s lecture, I now agree with him. He thought of the Grave not as an ‘introduction’ but rather the first theme, which re-appears throughout the movement (as opposed to the very peculiar introduction of Opus 111, which never returns). The second movement is quite Schubertian if you ask me. Wonderful sonata, and indeed very innovative (at least in terms of pianism). Thank you once again Sir and I look forward to more such lectures!
Thank you. Absolutely right Michael. Yes, I think Beethoven makes such architectural use of the Grave material throughout the movement (it always recurs at the end of the main sections of the movement, and it becomes the primary motif of the development section too) that it must be repeated. Unlike Op 111 as you say. Another interesting case is the intro of Chopin's B flat minor sonata which also makes sense of repeated, because it makes the music modulate back to the home key. I agree the second movement (derived from the middle section of Mozart's K457) definitely looks forward to Schubert.
@@themusicprofessor Professor, I don't know if this is within your plans, but would you consider doing a course on music theory. I practiced the piano for 6 years and I can still read sheet music with relative ease, but I've always wanted to understand the formal and harmonic underpinnings of the works that I love. What is happening in the music "under the hood" when the magical moments happen? I've perused RImsky-Korasakov's book, but it's a little dry. Your engaging manner would make learning theory so much more enjoyable. If this is too ambitious of a project for youtube, I'd be happy to pay for such a course ((assuming that it was reasonably priced (granted that reasonable means different things to different people)).
This channel has become quite busy over the last month! It takes us a while to create the videos and unfortunately I don't currently have much spare time for lessons at the moment. I think your suggestion of more detailed theoretical discussion is what we want to do over the course of time so thank you so much for your suggestions. We will try to respond with interesting material going forward. You're right that Rimsky Korsakov's Orchestration treatise is quite dry and old fashioned, but it's also really fascinating. He was an amazing technician!
Thank you. Superb breakdown; this made me grasp and appreciate this music much more fully and to understand its truly extraordinary and groundbreaking nature. Wow.
A piano teacher in Vienna forbade her students from learning the Pathetique, considering it dangerous modern music. I'm glad you mentioned how the forte chords are absent in the third Grave section. I believe Beethoven is introducing a new aesthetic here, involving an apperceptive engagement on the part of the listener. The chords are still present, but only, as it were, in the imagination.
Thank you for sharing your analysis! To your point at 14:37, the closest example I can think of is Bach's Prelude in E-flat major from WTC Book 1, where in the third fugato section the theme of the first section returns as the subject and the second theme in the second chorale section is sort of like a countersubject. Of course, there is no indication of tempo change in the Bach piece (although Glenn Gould plays the first section at a slower tempo - so his interpretation would actually bear more resemblance). Just a random thought.
Lotsa piano students but i enjoy your hints at Sibelius,Hadyn.I think we'd all benefit from from some symphonic analyses. Webern variations have difficult papers i dont get.
Yet another excellent and informative video, and I am happy to see that it is starting to get more views 6 months after its upload. You offer a more light-hearted but still viable alternative to the lectures of András Schiff, who have done some really excellent lectures on the Beethoven sonatas. His lecture on the Moonlight sonata is a particular must-see (or must-hear, as it is in audio only here on YT). Schiff is very perceptive and he has a sense of humor that I quite like, but at times he is too snobbish/elitistic for my taste. See his lecture on Beethoven Op 111 and you will see what I mean (you have probably watched it already). Here his choice of words and his tone of voice betray a certain disdain for jazz or at least for boogie-woogie (which however according to some experts is more properly classified as a variant of the blues).
Hey music professor, I love your videos on beethoven almost as much as I like beethoven himself. I've always wondered about the 17th sonata, the tempest 3rd movement and whether there's parallels to Fur Élise ? They're both in 3/8 and the opening theme is so similar to section A of fur Élise. Hoping to hear your thoughts!
I love this sonata and I have always thought that the interpretations that just go to the Allegro without repeating the Grave are a bit unbalanced. The Grave material returns so often, in both the development and the coda, that I feel that it very much should be repeated with the exposition. And I've always thought of this sonata as a whole as describing, musically describing the narrative of somebody being injured and not wanting to move cause it hurts(First Movement Grave sections), but it being too dangerous out there to stay put(First movement Allegro sections), finding a safe place to rest up and heal(Second movement), being nervous about what's out there(Ab minor episode), but ultimately feeling relaxed(End of second movement) and then trying to defeat the threat(Third Movement C minor main theme), and getting closer and closer(major key episodes first in Eb, then Ab, and then a very convincing C major), but ultimately losing the battle(C minor outburst in the coda). Perhaps my favorite moment from the sonata is that part of the third movement where, we've been in C major, Beethoven could very convincingly end the rondo in C major, but instead, he pulls a move that I like to call the "False Picardy Third" and he does this in the Fifth Symphony first movement as well, but basically, he has this prolonged passage in major that's convincing us "Oh, we're going to end in major" but then, just as you think it's going to end in major, Beethoven puts in a diminished seventh chord and is like "Psych! It's still in minor" and then the actual minor key ending follows.
Yes. The rondo is really masterly because it's a lighter character - and in fact the parody-contrapuntal episode (which is really fascinating) is a sort of joke, but then - as you say - it turns dark at the end, because ultimately this is a Pathetique sonata! Yes - the first movement must repeat to the Grave I think, just as it continues into the Grave at the beginning of the development section.
I couldn't hear ur voice ( esp when u whisper, )compared to the piano and movie clip parts. Kindly fix this, I adore ur commentary and share ur enthusiasm/love for Ludwigs work
18th century listener and me waking up after pardy hardy: "At least i know where i am now ... -" i love this sonata so much because its like still classical but somewhat 18th century is definitely over lol. And in the development theres already a chord my beloved Webern would have composed! Guess where!
@@themusicprofessor thats so cool too but by far not the spiciest sound! The trill in T174, 182, 184! The whole „chord“ with that extreme stretched voicing (as you showed) including the highlighted F almost sounds Webernesque for my taste, althogh it can be explained through doubledominant, organ point in the middle and f just being an ornament, not part of the Harmony, i believe this is no accident that Beethoven reaches the Most modern spheres right before the recap.
this lecture is a definite re-appreciation of this movement, my 1st attempt at any Beethoven sonata! 22:43 could you or someone explain why the D and F-natural don't resolve to an E-flat (completing the voice-leading)?
@@themusicprofessorthe 8th measure at 6:56 where the G7 resolves to an unambiguous C minor in the next "phrase", with the inclusion of the E-flat. now I thought about it, the answer is your characterisation of the Allegro Mannheim rocket as being harmonically unstable
I'm greatly enjoying the music; but I'm afraid the text is MUCH harder to follow, and I think this video would have greatly benefited from a dedicated voice microphone
Great video. I notice that you play the last note of the first measure (A-flat 32nd note) and the last note of the second measure (E-flat 32nd note) forte. So does everyone I've listened to, except Barenboim. The Urtext, however, does not show it being forte, but rather p, as the opening chord of those measures are marked Fp with no intervening dynamic marking. Why do you think most people play it F?
Yes, I think it's because it's a rapid anacrucis to the accented chord immediately after it. This is one of those moments where there is a legitimate variation of interpretation. Although the score suggests that it is still in the p dynamic, it seems reasonable to imagine that it really belongs, dynamically, to the next bar.
@@themusicprofessor I defer to your wisdom, but it seems to me that a dynamic marking is not subject to interpretation. The score does not suggest that those notes are p. According to the rules, it specifies that they are p. In any event, any performer who plays them f is in good company.
Yes - but I don't really think interpretation is about 'rules': it's about making a wise judgment from the information available. If it was about adherence to rules, all performances would be the same. But in fact all performances are different, and all 'great' performances are valid, however different they may be.
Thankyou again!Ihadbeen blindedabout ppus13.Op.22Bband26Abhave been killed so i will go look again!You have excited me about this music .It was one of myfirst delights but its popularity and appearance on youthful recitals caused me to stop listening but after really lookingharmonically and musicologically I CanNowSEEAGAIN.Never heard the Moscheles story. 3rdyear of college guy introduced me to Moscheles he is fine composer but not revolutionary.J.s.Bach work was not wellknown in Mozarts day. Id I ike to know when his keyboard works more generally became known
Beethoven in en önemli eseri bu olmalı. Sanatında bir milat oluşturup yeni Beethoven tarzını başlatıyor. Ama maalesef acılı kaderini de derinleştiriyor. 2. bölüm en güzel melodisidir ve bestecinin eşsizliğinin sembolüdür. 3. bölüm bu dünyadan hızla kaçıp gitmenin aceleciliği içindedir. O da çok güzel bir melodi olsa da bir an önce bitmelidir. Bu sonatı ilk senfonisi olarak ta planlayabilirdi ama piyanoya o kadar yakışan bir eser ki , bunu pek hayal edemiyoruz (Turkish) . . . . . . This must be Beethoven's most important work. He sets a milestone in his art and initiates the new Beethoven style. But unfortunately, it also deepens his painful fate. The 2nd part is the most beautiful melody and is a symbol of the uniqueness of the composer. Chapter 3 is in the rush of escaping this world quickly. Although it is a very beautiful melody, it should be finished as soon as possible. He could have planned this sonata as his first symphony, but it is a piece that suits the piano so well that we can hardly imagine it.
I have never liked the body of piano sonatas by Beethoven (especially i detest this pathetique sonata (which is not pathetique by the way)) except when he completely changed his style in high opuses. Before i explain why i don't like it, i need to say i first took reverence and patience to see why i didn't like it for decades because it is so adulated and hailed by a majority of people. I think i have now done all the necessary maturation, leniency, tolerance to say i hate Beethoven's sonata without that being a cappilary, emotional reaction but one deeply set. So here we go : Beethoven is a lunatic hammer like, brutal and tempestuous composer who is particular fond of expressing violence through the mechanical aspect of piano playing. You can easily find passages of coming violence like a matron who has taken out the whip or a murder his axe and is running toward his victim about to unleash strikes. This goes so far in Beethoven that sometimes (in fact most of the time) there is no melody only frenzied banging and menacing mechanicals at the piano supported by a harmonic progression noneless. The listener is put against intimidating sound and force like someone watching a blacksmith or a chainsaw operator from too close. Somehow people think that witnessing that violence and pounding on the keyboard interspersed with dirty hyper fast arpeggios and messy scales supported by a harmonic progression is enough to make good music. I do not like it and never have. And i am not alone. Some major composers one or two generation older than Beethoven also did not like it, like Chopin (search his quote on Beethoven, as he was sly careful talker avoiding to express his true sentiment if it would set him apart from the masses). But where it gets difficult for me is that Beethoven did compose some wonderful passages in his later sonatas (opuses > 100). To me those are his only worthwile piano sonatas and 80% of the rest needed not be remembered. Certainly i disagree with the embrace of Beehthoven sonata typically demanded by tradition. Last i think that his peculiar violent hammer style of music writting interspered with fluff could be a stemming from his health condition, he was probably poisoned by lead and suffered psychological symptoms.
I couldn't listen to this. The topic is very interesting. The voice-piano volume difference is too great for my old ears. Pity. I really enjoyed "Mozart's Stunning Tribute To Bach" and others of yours that I have come across.
Great analysis. But why not ease up on all those funny non-musical movie clips, which become distracting and tedious after a while? The content is too good to need such distractions.
I disagree. Not only are they usually pretty funnily presented, but teach me stuff I never knew sometimes. So I hope the professor doesnt change a thing on your account.
@@themusicprofessor I was just joking. But I actually didn't find any minor 7th chords going through his sonatas. Do you have any examples of where he used them?
e.g. Op. 31 no. 3 which begins on the first inversion of ii7: a very interesting (and daring) chord to begin a sonata at that time - possibly THE most daring!
why while we are speaking about Beethoven (with bad echoed sound) we need to see these grotesque GenZee-style animated inserts? are they supposed to entertain us or support the revolutionary musical spirit?
@@themusicprofessor Don't take it personal. I really love your material, just got to know your channel tonight, and already watched three videos. Both the Fur Elise and the Moonlight Sonata videos, were a total hit. Even the occasional image of your dog popping up. But I agree with @dancrooitorus364 the edits in this video were sometimes really out of place and didn't support the lecture , but rather distracted from it, with few exceptions. The part with Dudley more fitted perfectly in and supported the text. It is a subtle art to do these kind of edits. The video would had been so much better, had it been way less (I also think that they need to be shorter, the edits) But if you really want to keep on doing them. I think that you need to hire someone, which is either a Gen-Z or a Millennial to do them. Watch Matt Walsh editor, how he does it. He is a bit older then the generation that started this, but he still does quite smoothly. Keep up the good work. The material is really great and your points are very insightful.
What I love most about Beethoven is that he always did the unexpected, confounding listeners not only with his resetting of the rules but with the sheeer genious with which he accomplished it. Sometime, I swear I could hear him laughing at listeners' reactions. Your channel is required watching for anyone interested in expanding their understanding of music.
What an exciting analysis! And going to E minor was very clever and cool. What a dude in his era
I first discovered this sonata at age 13, and it's been my favorite ever since.
P.S., You have wonderful explanatory power.
Thank you!
@themusicprofessor great analysis I love playing the sonata pathetique myself, iam humbly speaking, mostly a self taught pianist from the age of 15yrs old, iam 53 yrs old now, thanks to this video I now realise that I need to put more pedal when iam playing especially in the allegro di molto con brio, It adds more drama and helps to increase the sound and makes the tone a lot more richer, I use the pedal in the 2nd movement of the pathetique a little in the 3rd movement many thanks and greetings from wales uk 😀
Many thanks. Beethoven's music, which has been a lifelong companion and healer to me thus far in my 62 years, will be even more special now. Subscribed and hoping to find some music theory lessons somewhere amongst your videos. Thanks again/Diolch eto
My favorite sonata. I cannot tell you how much accomplishment I felt when I finally believed I nailed it. That my old former college professor agrees meant more than anything in the world.
I’ve always found Beethoven hard to get into, but this video did such a great job explaining the ideas behind the piece. Thank you!
Fascinating analysis! Beethovens Pathetique is definitely one of my favourite sonatas of all time. There is such incredible drama and complexity involved in the piece, Beethoven never fails to impress me. Excellent explanation Professor, and playing as well!
Thank you! Yes, Beethoven never fails to impress. Check out the new video on the Eroica: czcams.com/video/uztVKbVwmx4/video.html
@@themusicprofessor great video!
Excellent job at illuminating Beethoven's compositional skills that make the bold gestures and modern sound (at that time) of the Pathetique Sonata convincing and palatable, even to an audience mostly accustomed to the style galant.
Even before Beethoven, it was common to "recompose" the recap.
You can see recomposed recaps written out explicitly in CPE Bach’s sonatas, as well as in Mozart's, although Mozart likely relied more on spontaneous decoration and improvisation over the written material. At least that's what I understood from Robert Levin
Yes, certainly.
I'll be brief. I really enjoyed your analysis. I've been playing this (sort of poorly) since my teens, now in my early(ish) 40s. Lastly, the Ben Shapiro meme broke me. Well done sir.
Thank you for giving us your insights Professor! Very interesting and informative video.
I also want to give a shoutout to your editor. Really excellent job!
I feel as though much of the first and third movements of this sonata are indeed an echoing of the C Minor Partita.
As far as whether or not, in the first movement, we should go back to the beginning, something curious is that Andras Schiff mentioned that he had heard Rudolf Serkin do so as opposed to just repeating the Allegro like most people, and that Serkin’s interpretation had convinced him. As you mentioned, unfortunately there is no manuscript (so it becomes a never-ending debate much like the A natural vs A sharp in the Hammerklavier). I had always just repeated the Allegro myself, but after listening to Schiff’s lecture, I now agree with him. He thought of the Grave not as an ‘introduction’ but rather the first theme, which re-appears throughout the movement (as opposed to the very peculiar introduction of Opus 111, which never returns).
The second movement is quite Schubertian if you ask me.
Wonderful sonata, and indeed very innovative (at least in terms of pianism).
Thank you once again Sir and I look forward to more such lectures!
Thank you. Absolutely right Michael. Yes, I think Beethoven makes such architectural use of the Grave material throughout the movement (it always recurs at the end of the main sections of the movement, and it becomes the primary motif of the development section too) that it must be repeated. Unlike Op 111 as you say. Another interesting case is the intro of Chopin's B flat minor sonata which also makes sense of repeated, because it makes the music modulate back to the home key. I agree the second movement (derived from the middle section of Mozart's K457) definitely looks forward to Schubert.
This has always been my favourite sonata. Now I understand why. Thank you Professor!
Thanks so much for sharing!
Great explanation! Thanks for your enthusiasm and sharing of your knowledge! You are a great teacher!
What a privilege it is to have access to such an eloquent, informative, and entertaining analysis of a masterwork.
Thank you for your support and encouragement
@@themusicprofessor Professor, I don't know if this is within your plans, but would you consider doing a course on music theory. I practiced the piano for 6 years and I can still read sheet music with relative ease, but I've always wanted to understand the formal and harmonic underpinnings of the works that I love. What is happening in the music "under the hood" when the magical moments happen? I've perused RImsky-Korasakov's book, but it's a little dry. Your engaging manner would make learning theory so much more enjoyable. If this is too ambitious of a project for youtube, I'd be happy to pay for such a course ((assuming that it was reasonably priced (granted that reasonable means different things to different people)).
This channel has become quite busy over the last month! It takes us a while to create the videos and unfortunately I don't currently have much spare time for lessons at the moment. I think your suggestion of more detailed theoretical discussion is what we want to do over the course of time so thank you so much for your suggestions. We will try to respond with interesting material going forward. You're right that Rimsky Korsakov's Orchestration treatise is quite dry and old fashioned, but it's also really fascinating. He was an amazing technician!
16:00 Especially thanks for that reference!
As they say, it's a definite like and subscribe. Can't stop watching your videos!
Thank you so much!
Thank you. Superb breakdown; this made me grasp and appreciate this music much more fully and to understand its truly extraordinary and groundbreaking nature. Wow.
Excellent. I always said that it sounds like sobbing!
A piano teacher in Vienna forbade her students from learning the Pathetique, considering it dangerous modern music. I'm glad you mentioned how the forte chords are absent in the third Grave section. I believe Beethoven is introducing a new aesthetic here, involving an apperceptive engagement on the part of the listener. The chords are still present, but only, as it were, in the imagination.
Thanks, that was a great deal of fun. Definitely learned a lot - Beethoven looking over Mozart's shoulder at French Grave overture introduction...
The volume levels on this post are inconsistent. The lecture is very soft and the piano is very FORTE!
This is so interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I'm new to piano and music domain, it was hard for me me to understand all of your insights but I really appreciated them !
Thank you!
Thank you for sharing your analysis! To your point at 14:37, the closest example I can think of is Bach's Prelude in E-flat major from WTC Book 1, where in the third fugato section the theme of the first section returns as the subject and the second theme in the second chorale section is sort of like a countersubject. Of course, there is no indication of tempo change in the Bach piece (although Glenn Gould plays the first section at a slower tempo - so his interpretation would actually bear more resemblance). Just a random thought.
Lotsa piano students but i enjoy your hints at Sibelius,Hadyn.I think we'd all benefit from from some symphonic analyses. Webern variations have difficult papers i dont get.
Yet another excellent and informative video, and I am happy to see that it is starting to get more views 6 months after its upload. You offer a more light-hearted but still viable alternative to the lectures of András Schiff, who have done some really excellent lectures on the Beethoven sonatas. His lecture on the Moonlight sonata is a particular must-see (or must-hear, as it is in audio only here on YT).
Schiff is very perceptive and he has a sense of humor that I quite like, but at times he is too snobbish/elitistic for my taste. See his lecture on Beethoven Op 111 and you will see what I mean (you have probably watched it already). Here his choice of words and his tone of voice betray a certain disdain for jazz or at least for boogie-woogie (which however according to some experts is more properly classified as a variant of the blues).
Wonderful stuff! More please. 😀
Thank you.
Chopin's C minor (revolutionary) étude main theme in turn obviously derived from the Pathétique Grave melody....
...Oh yes!
You enter into some kind of riotous rapture when you explore this wonderful piece to us. I sometimes feel the same way when I'm teaching - BRAVO!
Brilliant. I'd love to see more long format, deep-dive videos (i.e. on Ravel!)
That's a fairly likely scenario
Hey music professor, I love your videos on beethoven almost as much as I like beethoven himself. I've always wondered about the 17th sonata, the tempest 3rd movement and whether there's parallels to Fur Élise ? They're both in 3/8 and the opening theme is so similar to section A of fur Élise. Hoping to hear your thoughts!
Thank you. Yes - I discuss this exact issue in this video: czcams.com/video/jblFQ1whX5s/video.htmlsi=ratq5yD5SPPGpxBN
Amazing! Thank you so much!
I love this sonata and I have always thought that the interpretations that just go to the Allegro without repeating the Grave are a bit unbalanced. The Grave material returns so often, in both the development and the coda, that I feel that it very much should be repeated with the exposition. And I've always thought of this sonata as a whole as describing, musically describing the narrative of somebody being injured and not wanting to move cause it hurts(First Movement Grave sections), but it being too dangerous out there to stay put(First movement Allegro sections), finding a safe place to rest up and heal(Second movement), being nervous about what's out there(Ab minor episode), but ultimately feeling relaxed(End of second movement) and then trying to defeat the threat(Third Movement C minor main theme), and getting closer and closer(major key episodes first in Eb, then Ab, and then a very convincing C major), but ultimately losing the battle(C minor outburst in the coda).
Perhaps my favorite moment from the sonata is that part of the third movement where, we've been in C major, Beethoven could very convincingly end the rondo in C major, but instead, he pulls a move that I like to call the "False Picardy Third" and he does this in the Fifth Symphony first movement as well, but basically, he has this prolonged passage in major that's convincing us "Oh, we're going to end in major" but then, just as you think it's going to end in major, Beethoven puts in a diminished seventh chord and is like "Psych! It's still in minor" and then the actual minor key ending follows.
Yes. The rondo is really masterly because it's a lighter character - and in fact the parody-contrapuntal episode (which is really fascinating) is a sort of joke, but then - as you say - it turns dark at the end, because ultimately this is a Pathetique sonata! Yes - the first movement must repeat to the Grave I think, just as it continues into the Grave at the beginning of the development section.
Thoroughly enjoyable 🎵
Feel I’m learning so much
Listening to this…..🖤
Great journey ❤ thank You 😊
I couldn't hear ur voice ( esp when u whisper, )compared to the piano and movie clip parts. Kindly fix this, I adore ur commentary and share ur enthusiasm/love for Ludwigs work
Thank you. We have fixed it (this video was made a while ago). Check out more recent videos: www.youtube.com/@themusicprofessor/videos
18th century listener and me waking up after pardy hardy: "At least i know where i am now ... -" i love this sonata so much because its like still classical but somewhat 18th century is definitely over lol. And in the development theres already a chord my beloved Webern would have composed! Guess where!
The extraordinary rumbling thing at 167 (C#M over a G pedal)?
@@themusicprofessor thats so cool too but by far not the spiciest sound! The trill in T174, 182, 184! The whole „chord“ with that extreme stretched voicing (as you showed) including the highlighted F almost sounds Webernesque for my taste, althogh it can be explained through doubledominant, organ point in the middle and f just being an ornament, not part of the Harmony, i believe this is no accident that Beethoven reaches the Most modern spheres right before the recap.
Yes - I nearly wrote that bit down but thought it was cheating to suggest 2 possibilities.
this lecture is a definite re-appreciation of this movement, my 1st attempt at any Beethoven sonata!
22:43 could you or someone explain why the D and F-natural don't resolve to an E-flat (completing the voice-leading)?
could you clarify the question?
@@themusicprofessorthe 8th measure at 6:56 where the G7 resolves to an unambiguous C minor in the next "phrase", with the inclusion of the E-flat.
now I thought about it, the answer is your characterisation of the Allegro Mannheim rocket as being harmonically unstable
Greetings from Japan. Thanks for the video. Do you have plans to do one for the Tempest?
Hopefully. yes!
I'm greatly enjoying the music; but I'm afraid the text is MUCH harder to follow, and I think this video would have greatly benefited from a dedicated voice microphone
Great video. I notice that you play the last note of the first measure (A-flat 32nd note) and the last note of the second measure (E-flat 32nd note) forte. So does everyone I've listened to, except Barenboim. The Urtext, however, does not show it being forte, but rather p, as the opening chord of those measures are marked Fp with no intervening dynamic marking. Why do you think most people play it F?
Yes, I think it's because it's a rapid anacrucis to the accented chord immediately after it. This is one of those moments where there is a legitimate variation of interpretation. Although the score suggests that it is still in the p dynamic, it seems reasonable to imagine that it really belongs, dynamically, to the next bar.
@@themusicprofessor I defer to your wisdom, but it seems to me that a dynamic marking is not subject to interpretation. The score does not suggest that those notes are p. According to the rules, it specifies that they are p. In any event, any performer who plays them f is in good company.
Yes - but I don't really think interpretation is about 'rules': it's about making a wise judgment from the information available. If it was about adherence to rules, all performances would be the same. But in fact all performances are different, and all 'great' performances are valid, however different they may be.
16:03 who is this? Is this from a comedy show?
Yes. It's a famous Beethoven-parody by the marvellously talented British comedian-actor-pianist Dudley Moore
@@themusicprofessor ah thanks!
Thankyou again!Ihadbeen blindedabout ppus13.Op.22Bband26Abhave been killed so i will go look again!You have excited me about this music .It was one of myfirst delights but its popularity and appearance on youthful recitals caused me to stop listening but after really lookingharmonically and musicologically I CanNowSEEAGAIN.Never heard the Moscheles story. 3rdyear of college guy introduced me to Moscheles he is fine composer but not revolutionary.J.s.Bach work was not wellknown in Mozarts day. Id I ike to know when his keyboard works more generally became known
Why so many pianists play the last 32“ tone in bar 1 and bar 2 ff , when its not written in the sheet?
Beethoven in en önemli eseri bu olmalı. Sanatında bir milat oluşturup yeni Beethoven tarzını başlatıyor. Ama maalesef acılı kaderini de derinleştiriyor. 2. bölüm en güzel melodisidir ve bestecinin eşsizliğinin sembolüdür. 3. bölüm bu dünyadan hızla kaçıp gitmenin aceleciliği içindedir. O da çok güzel bir melodi olsa da bir an önce bitmelidir. Bu sonatı ilk senfonisi olarak ta planlayabilirdi ama piyanoya o kadar yakışan bir eser ki , bunu pek hayal edemiyoruz (Turkish) . . . . . . This must be Beethoven's most important work. He sets a milestone in his art and initiates the new Beethoven style. But unfortunately, it also deepens his painful fate. The 2nd part is the most beautiful melody and is a symbol of the uniqueness of the composer. Chapter 3 is in the rush of escaping this world quickly. Although it is a very beautiful melody, it should be finished as soon as possible. He could have planned this sonata as his first symphony, but it is a piece that suits the piano so well that we can hardly imagine it.
It is wonderful, but I think there are other pieces of Beethoven that are even better (the last 3 sonatas for example, or the late string quartets).
@@themusicprofessor Onlar çok zor. Dinlemesi bile. Sizce N.32 son sonat bitmiş mi ?
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Are there any formal published analysis’ of the 32 sonatas?
There are several: there's a famous one by Donald Tovey (a bit old fashioned now) and a rather interesting (more recent) book by Charles Rosen.
Great video but so quiet... when the ads came on my eardrums were nearly destroyed!
My apologies. Unfortunately we can't do much about the volume of adverts that get played.
Pay CZcams
...and all this analysis is only for the 1st movement!
I've only just started. It would be possible to talk about almost any piece of Beethoven for at least 24 hours!
15:59 that's pretty much how I see the Beethoven's music 😂
7:40 bruh I thought you were gonna say Mozart sonata is less good, my world was about to crumble 😂
I have never liked the body of piano sonatas by Beethoven (especially i detest this pathetique sonata (which is not pathetique by the way)) except when he completely changed his style in high opuses. Before i explain why i don't like it, i need to say i first took reverence and patience to see why i didn't like it for decades because it is so adulated and hailed by a majority of people. I think i have now done all the necessary maturation, leniency, tolerance to say i hate Beethoven's sonata without that being a cappilary, emotional reaction but one deeply set. So here we go :
Beethoven is a lunatic hammer like, brutal and tempestuous composer who is particular fond of expressing violence through the mechanical aspect of piano playing. You can easily find passages of coming violence like a matron who has taken out the whip or a murder his axe and is running toward his victim about to unleash strikes. This goes so far in Beethoven that sometimes (in fact most of the time) there is no melody only frenzied banging and menacing mechanicals at the piano supported by a harmonic progression noneless. The listener is put against intimidating sound and force like someone watching a blacksmith or a chainsaw operator from too close. Somehow people think that witnessing that violence and pounding on the keyboard interspersed with dirty hyper fast arpeggios and messy scales supported by a harmonic progression is enough to make good music. I do not like it and never have.
And i am not alone. Some major composers one or two generation older than Beethoven also did not like it, like Chopin (search his quote on Beethoven, as he was sly careful talker avoiding to express his true sentiment if it would set him apart from the masses). But where it gets difficult for me is that Beethoven did compose some wonderful passages in his later sonatas (opuses > 100). To me those are his only worthwile piano sonatas and 80% of the rest needed not be remembered. Certainly i disagree with the embrace of Beehthoven sonata typically demanded by tradition.
Last i think that his peculiar violent hammer style of music writting interspered with fluff could be a stemming from his health condition, he was probably poisoned by lead and suffered psychological symptoms.
A sonata really need to go through so many keys? Why ?
Sonata form is a musical argument that depends on contrasting tonalities.
I couldn't listen to this. The topic is very interesting. The voice-piano volume difference is too great for my old ears. Pity. I really enjoyed "Mozart's Stunning Tribute To Bach" and others of yours that I have come across.
Great analysis. But why not ease up on all those funny non-musical movie clips, which become distracting and tedious after a while? The content is too good to need such distractions.
Thank you for being the definition of a fun sponge 😀
@@mista_krabs7208 I have no idea what a fun sponge is, but I’ll take it as a compliment
It’s called being playful. Try it sometime.
The video is for GCSE music i.e. mid teens (with a low attention tolerance?)
I disagree. Not only are they usually pretty funnily presented, but teach me stuff I never knew sometimes. So I hope the professor doesnt change a thing on your account.
Your voice is too soft, and the piano is too loud. Please balance the volume better next time.
Audio just needs compression
Thank you very much, that was great .
The tempo is too fast ! Do you know the word "grave" ? Allegro is not a presto...
If beethoven was so revolutionary, how come he never used a minor seven chord?
He did use minor 7th chords. Besides, who says revolutionary composers are defined by their use of a specific chord?
@@themusicprofessor I was just joking. But I actually didn't find any minor 7th chords going through his sonatas. Do you have any examples of where he used them?
e.g. Op. 31 no. 3 which begins on the first inversion of ii7: a very interesting (and daring) chord to begin a sonata at that time - possibly THE most daring!
why while we are speaking about Beethoven (with bad echoed sound) we need to see these grotesque GenZee-style animated inserts? are they supposed to entertain us or support the revolutionary musical spirit?
Yes
@@themusicprofessor No
@@dancroitoru364 a well argued point
Ben Shapiro was kinda disturbing.
@@themusicprofessor Don't take it personal. I really love your material, just got to know your channel tonight, and already watched three videos. Both the Fur Elise and the Moonlight Sonata videos, were a total hit. Even the occasional image of your dog popping up. But I agree with @dancrooitorus364 the edits in this video were sometimes really out of place and didn't support the lecture , but rather distracted from it, with few exceptions. The part with Dudley more fitted perfectly in and supported the text.
It is a subtle art to do these kind of edits. The video would had been so much better, had it been way less (I also think that they need to be shorter, the edits) But if you really want to keep on doing them. I think that you need to hire someone, which is either a Gen-Z or a Millennial to do them. Watch Matt Walsh editor, how he does it. He is a bit older then the generation that started this, but he still does quite smoothly.
Keep up the good work. The material is really great and your points are very insightful.
Sorry, but it is exceedingly weird math to get from 1797 to 2023/2024 and reach 300. That intro needs to be rethought, frankly...
No , Beethoven startet this sonate on this way.
I love this, but please drop the silly memes.
Great analysis but the cartoon and movie clips were out of place and off-putting
Eh i liked them
This is not how it should be played at all, sorry it’s not convincing