To answer some of the comments saying things like "Autotune or Melodyne is destroying music" I have this as a response. It's a video from Jordan Valeriotes where he did a blind test with 1000 people, over 800 preferred the tuned vocal without knowing that was the only difference. czcams.com/video/Cw66y4AjUdY/video.html Thanks to @MattyVibes and @Shred_Rocket for sharing that video with us. Cheers everyone!
On another note... this is what the public is subconsciously expecting without knowing it becauseof this push. However they also cant explain why they always go back to, or love to listen to the greats from the great recording era before autotune. Thats because the beauty of imperfections is perfect.
I’m with you there. I think the overuse of tuning is a bad thing. And it’s become part of the modern sound for better or for worse. There’s something great about the old school recordings where it’s untouched in terms of tuning. But they don’t sound modern to me. It’s a sound. When done lightly with a singer it sounds better to me. When done heavily with a bad singer it sounds rubbish no matter how good the tuning.
Great tutorial. Learned a couple things to speed up my workflow thank you. I’ve also found that if I chop up the vocal performance and leave alone the entry and exit points of the individual words, I can get away with some pretty serious tuning without affecting the realness of the delivery. Takes a bit of time, but been doing it long enough that I can do it pretty quick.
Melodyne is amazing. I use Studio 5.4, and it's worth the upgrade just for the multi tracking feature. The ability to overlay multiple vocal tracks for a thick sound, and be able to line them all up to sound like one vocal is insane. Great tutorial. All great features. I like to use it as a plug in like you do also. It seems to be more intuitive. As far as tweaking note volumes, I find using the "make quiet notes louder/ make loud notes quieter" feature to be faster, and then tweak whatever notes/blobs need tweaking. Also, the ability to copy a track, delete all the sibilants on one, then delete all the notes on the other is a great way to tame them by mixing the two together. Looking forward to more Melodyne vids! 🤘🤘
Thanks for the kind words and those amazing workflow tips. Gotta get version 5 now. Those features sound epic. That “make quiet notes louder” feature you mention, where is that? I don’t recall seeing it in V4 but it sounds hella useful.
@@warpacademy I wish I could show you a screen shot..I think the past few versions have what's called the "Note Leveling Macro"..if you look at the top of the Melodyne "page" or "screen" at the top center, just above the timeline..all the macros, and effects are in that strip..the note leveling macro is the furthest to the right of center..the first one to the right is the "correct pitch macro", then to the right is the "quantize time macro", then the "note leveling macro". (They don't say what they are until you hover over them).You should have that feature in 4. 👍
Thanks for sharing your knowledge for free. I was kinda scared to use melodyne due to it being kinda hard to work with, but now I see it's not that terrible, actually it seems rather intuitive.
My pleasure. I was also avoiding using it for a long time because it seemed intimidating and complex but once someone showed me how to use it I really got into it. All the best!
WOW! I stumbled across this by accident, and that killer voice over tone and compression jaw dropped me so hard my eyeballs popped straight out of my head! I'm staying for the whole video...I think I'll check out your free vocal production course too....and subscribe to the channel as well! (btw...I've been using Melodyne since the very beginning, along with AutoTune, WavesTune, ReVoice Pro and IZotope Nectar....but I'm always looking for new and faster ways of working 😃)
At least the Cher track tastefully used the AT effect and only on certains spots. It was a great creative engineering idea. The problem today is that they put it on the entire track, so it doesn't come off as cool ear candy.
It would be great if Melodyne would use/ implement colour coding to help differentiate between multiple tracks (studio version). Folks have been asking for this for some time now. Anyways, great showcase as usual and great vocal editing software 👍🏻🚀✨
Great video! However, as a Reason user I feel a bit spoiled that pretty much all of the features in Melodyne is already within Reason's built in pitch edit tool - no need for any extra software or plugins there. Maybe could be something to consider if you're not yet stuck with one DAW and you know you will work with a lot of vocals.
What do you think about using it in mastering instead of compression? 🤔 Great content...happy that I found your channel. Greetings from Germany Michael
Hey Michael. Nice to see you round the channel. This is not intended for a master at all, it’s intended for individual instruments or polyphonic performances. Not a full master. If you want to see what I do instead of or in addition to compression on a master, watch this: Before Mastering I Do THIS…✅ czcams.com/video/xzujAhDVg6w/video.html
Thanks 😊 I am very sensitive to artifact sounds...any suggestion for keeping the vocal as natural as possible... I thought I could hear some. Registered for your free vocal class. Thanks again.
Hey hey. Welcome on board. I hope you enjoy the class. The whole concept of the video was about how to create more gentle edits that are as transparent as possible. Follow the guidance in this video, watching again if you need to. If you're hearing too many artifacts in the processing, then simply back off a bit in how you use the tools. The process is the same so there's nothing additional I would share. Cheers!
@@angelinagargano3940let me add, im pretty ocd about the lovely MD artifacts (phasing etc on breaths S’s etc) and something that helps me is to make an additional cut before or after the artifact and a lot of times for whatever reason it will clean up, or even move a cut if theres already one there. If that doesn’t help and theyre still bad ill go through with the original raw vocal track above the tuned one and cut and pull the breaths from the original down to the tuned and cross fade etc They swear it doesn’t do anything to all that type stuff but a lot of times ill hear it as soon as it transferred and I haven’t touched a thing ha
Bro, I’ve got your Clipper Video & now this one.. I was wondering if you offer any other Ableton classes? I’m an artist my music is up, but I’m engineering and doing everything on my own… I see that you’re with Warp Academy.. I was wondering if you offer “You personally-any other training courses?
Hey hey. Glad you've been diggin the videos. Yes, I'm one of the founders of Warp Academy and we have a ton of courses there. Some of them by me, others by our whole team of instructors. I also mix and master music, so you could work with me on that directly. Or I offer a one-on-one coaching program called Accelerate here: warpacademy.com/vespers-accelerate-coaching/ If you want to inquire about mixing and mastering, HMU here: vespers.ca/services/audio-engineering/ Cheers!
What do you think about audio degradation by running it through melodyne? I definitely hear a bit of high freq loss after running it through melodyne, even on words that aren’t adjusted.
Thanks for the comment. I’ve personally never noticed anything much in terms of HF loss, but perhaps that’s because o do this as a first stage before I EQ the vocal and maybe I’m just adding it back in mixing. Also I would say that degradation and HF loss are 2 different things. HF loss can be added back with a high shelf boost. Degradation may be distortion or loss of resolution or something else. What are you noticing and how much?
@@warpacademy basically what i did was i pitch shifted one note and tried to null the rest. As soon as one note was shifted nothing nulled. Amplitude adjustment on one note did not cause issues. Everything still nulled
I did a blind a/b test and could identify the non processed audio as slightly clearer. So i know there IS a difference, but I’m not sure how big of a deal that difference is. If it’s a slight time shift and slightly less high frequency then it can be eqd. If it is causing comb filtering or something then that’s more of an issue.
The more concerning thing though is that the audio that was not touched didn’t null and yet doing only amplitude adjustments did not cause this issue. Are you able to replicate this?
Hey hey. It’s the nature of this type of processing that it will add some slight artifacts. All pitch correction will. It’s a matter of minimizing them and that’s what I discuss in the video. For example I talk about not using the pitch modulation tool and instead using the pitch drift tool when possible. Not pitching breaths. And splitting notes more finely that need pitch mod alteration.
In my opinion, there’s no noticeable difference beyond working in 48 kHz and most mastering engineers I know work at that rate. There are many who would disagree with me tho, but the real test is can they identify what recording is what, consistently, in a blinded test. And I think that has been answered by research.
It depends on what you value in a DAW. I started on Reason, used Cubase heavily for many years, I've worked in Logic etc. Short answer, I do my research before settling on what tools I use and I love Live for perhaps some reasons you don't personally value. Cubase has many interesting features, especially for vocal tuning and vocal time alignment. If I was seriously considering using another DAW, it would be Cubase or FL but for very different reasons. But each of them also feels very clunky and slow to me compared to Live. You do you mate! I'm happy with my choice.
Yeah, it's a little fussy for sure. Like anything, once you get used to it, it feels more natural. But at the beginning it feels cumbersome. I think it's still the best vocal tuning platform in terms of sound though.
I do cover all of that in my video. Did you not see the process of splitting off the breaths, plosives and sibilants with the slice tool? All you do is use the amplitude tool on them to reduce volume. Super easy with that approach. It’s just manual gain.
That’s the beauty of subjectivity. We all get a preference and an opinion. I’ve never met (heard) a vocalist that I didn’t want to tune, just a little bit. But I’m no purist. Many people are. I like a certain sound that’s more “on grid” but not stepped on too much. I try to thread the needle on natural sound but a modern one that fits my style of music and that of my clients. There’s so much music out there that we can all find what we want to listen to.
People buy a song with a sung melody. Hard or soft tuned, it's all wrong. And the Cher FX is more honest. What the music industry wants/likes/sells is also a reason why young people are psychologically destroyed if they are not perfect. A terrible path we all walk. Not being perfect is the most human thing you can achieve.
I dig that that's where your head's at with this. Looking at the bigger picture. I would tend to agree with you. But if we're going there, it's not Melodyne or vocal tuning that's psychologically destroying young people, it's social media and the multitude of screens they are addicted to. That is the ultimate negative comparison, when people compare themselves to the projection of perfection of someone's public profile life.
People made music for thousands of years without auto-tune. Learn your parts practice your singing and do it that way instead. It will always sound better.
But what about all the people who can't sing? ;) Joking, but for us as engineers we need this stuff in our tool kit. It's part of the suite of essential services that an engineer must use to dial in music for their clients. And, on a personal note, I'm a classically trained pianist and jazz saxophonist. I've played since I was 5. And regardless of that experience, I still tune my performances from the sax. I still make slight timing adjustments. It's not about being a purist virtuoso. It's about getting the job done and not fussing about being a total perfectionist for me. Plus you can do sweet things like making harmonies and reinforcing octave parts. All without recording a ton of additional takes, if you want. It's liberating.
Why do you even open video then about melodyne, if you are going to comment something opposite of what video talks about, such a moron, it literally makes difference, best singers alive go out of note slightly and need tuning for it to sound perfect, your comment is such nonsense...
Have you watched Jordan Valeriotes video from yesterday where he did a blind test with 1000 people, over 800 preferred the tuned vocal without knowing that was the only difference. If that’s your argument, people would still be bopping Gregorian Chant from the 9th century on the radio. Pro tip, they aren’t. 😂
It literally won’t always sound better. The best you can hope for is that a singer sounds on par with the tuned vocal. In all but the most practiced and talented singers on the planet, that won’t happen. And even if it does, the ROI on time invested to get that good vs an hour in melodyne from a good engineer won’t ever be appreciated on record.
To answer some of the comments saying things like "Autotune or Melodyne is destroying music" I have this as a response. It's a video from Jordan Valeriotes where he did a blind test with 1000 people, over 800 preferred the tuned vocal without knowing that was the only difference.
czcams.com/video/Cw66y4AjUdY/video.html
Thanks to @MattyVibes and @Shred_Rocket for sharing that video with us. Cheers everyone!
On another note... this is what the public is subconsciously expecting without knowing it becauseof this push. However they also cant explain why they always go back to, or love to listen to the greats from the great recording era before autotune. Thats because the beauty of imperfections is perfect.
I’m with you there. I think the overuse of tuning is a bad thing. And it’s become part of the modern sound for better or for worse. There’s something great about the old school recordings where it’s untouched in terms of tuning. But they don’t sound modern to me. It’s a sound. When done lightly with a singer it sounds better to me. When done heavily with a bad singer it sounds rubbish no matter how good the tuning.
Great to use the gain to compress before the mix melodyne
Indeed it is! The more I get into engineering the less I rely on compressors and limiters and the more I do manually.
Great tutorial. Learned a couple things to speed up my workflow thank you. I’ve also found that if I chop up the vocal performance and leave alone the entry and exit points of the individual words, I can get away with some pretty serious tuning without affecting the realness of the delivery. Takes a bit of time, but been doing it long enough that I can do it pretty quick.
Great tip!
This is one of the best melodyne tutorials I have seen ❤❤❤
Glad you think so!
Melodyne is amazing. I use Studio 5.4, and it's worth the upgrade just for the multi tracking feature. The ability to overlay multiple vocal tracks for a thick sound, and be able to line them all up to sound like one vocal is insane. Great tutorial. All great features. I like to use it as a plug in like you do also. It seems to be more intuitive. As far as tweaking note volumes, I find using the "make quiet notes louder/ make loud notes quieter" feature to be faster, and then tweak whatever notes/blobs need tweaking. Also, the ability to copy a track, delete all the sibilants on one, then delete all the notes on the other is a great way to tame them by mixing the two together. Looking forward to more Melodyne vids! 🤘🤘
Thanks for the kind words and those amazing workflow tips. Gotta get version 5 now. Those features sound epic.
That “make quiet notes louder” feature you mention, where is that? I don’t recall seeing it in V4 but it sounds hella useful.
@@warpacademy I wish I could show you a screen shot..I think the past few versions have what's called the "Note Leveling Macro"..if you look at the top of the Melodyne "page" or "screen" at the top center, just above the timeline..all the macros, and effects are in that strip..the note leveling macro is the furthest to the right of center..the first one to the right is the "correct pitch macro", then to the right is the "quantize time macro", then the "note leveling macro". (They don't say what they are until you hover over them).You should have that feature in 4. 👍
Hey hey. I saw you got in touch with our support and sent in a screenshot. Thanks so much. I'm stoked to check out that feature.
@@warpacademy 🤘
Thanks for sharing your knowledge for free. I was kinda scared to use melodyne due to it being kinda hard to work with, but now I see it's not that terrible, actually it seems rather intuitive.
My pleasure. I was also avoiding using it for a long time because it seemed intimidating and complex but once someone showed me how to use it I really got into it. All the best!
@@warpacademy Appreciate the reply. Take care
Happy to help. Stay tuned for more videos and subscribe to the channel to stay in touch :)
WOW! I stumbled across this by accident, and that killer voice over tone and compression jaw dropped me so hard my eyeballs popped straight out of my head! I'm staying for the whole video...I think I'll check out your free vocal production course too....and subscribe to the channel as well! (btw...I've been using Melodyne since the very beginning, along with AutoTune, WavesTune, ReVoice Pro and IZotope Nectar....but I'm always looking for new and faster ways of working 😃)
Thanks very much for the support, welcome aboard! I appreciate the kind words and I hope you get a ton out of the channel and community. Cheers!
Yea, it was 1998... Cher... Believe... Everyone's been doing the same thing since. Thanks for saying what so many of us want to say. :)
Ah, nice one. Thanks for clearing up the exact year and song. Much appreciated. Thanks for watching and commenting!
At least the Cher track tastefully used the AT effect and only on certains spots. It was a great creative engineering idea. The problem today is that they put it on the entire track, so it doesn't come off as cool ear candy.
great and simplified tutorial 🔥🔥🔥
Thanks!
Awesome and very informative!
Glad you liked it!
It would be great if Melodyne would use/ implement colour coding to help differentiate between multiple tracks (studio version). Folks have been asking for this for some time now. Anyways, great showcase as usual and great vocal editing software 👍🏻🚀✨
Ah yes. That would be useful for sure. Cheers!
Great video!
However, as a Reason user I feel a bit spoiled that pretty much all of the features in Melodyne is already within Reason's built in pitch edit tool - no need for any extra software or plugins there. Maybe could be something to consider if you're not yet stuck with one DAW and you know you will work with a lot of vocals.
Good point Peter! Cubase also has a ton of great tools built in for vocal tuning and vocal timing alignment.
Metropolis ! I’ve had sessions there!
Nice one. It's a legend.
What do you think about using it in mastering instead of compression? 🤔
Great content...happy that I found your channel. Greetings from Germany
Michael
Hey Michael. Nice to see you round the channel. This is not intended for a master at all, it’s intended for individual instruments or polyphonic performances. Not a full master.
If you want to see what I do instead of or in addition to compression on a master, watch this:
Before Mastering I Do THIS…✅
czcams.com/video/xzujAhDVg6w/video.html
Am I only the only one who uses Melodyne to make vocals tempo consistent to fit within a remix?
It can do that too! I just prefer Lives warping.
Thanks 😊 I am very sensitive to artifact sounds...any suggestion for keeping the vocal as natural as possible... I thought I could hear some. Registered for your free vocal class. Thanks again.
Hey hey. Welcome on board. I hope you enjoy the class. The whole concept of the video was about how to create more gentle edits that are as transparent as possible. Follow the guidance in this video, watching again if you need to. If you're hearing too many artifacts in the processing, then simply back off a bit in how you use the tools. The process is the same so there's nothing additional I would share. Cheers!
@warpacademy Great! Will do. Have a wonderful day.😀
@@angelinagargano3940let me add, im pretty ocd about the lovely MD artifacts (phasing etc on breaths S’s etc) and something that helps me is to make an additional cut before or after the artifact and a lot of times for whatever reason it will clean up, or even move a cut if theres already one there. If that doesn’t help and theyre still bad ill go through with the original raw vocal track above the tuned one and cut and pull the breaths from the original down to the tuned and cross fade etc
They swear it doesn’t do anything to all that type stuff but a lot of times ill hear it as soon as it transferred and I haven’t touched a thing ha
@chucknkd ...thx for sharing... I will try it out...have a great week 🤜
Awesome ideas! Love that. Thanks for chiming in here and offering some of your experience.
Bro, I’ve got your Clipper Video & now this one.. I was wondering if you offer any other Ableton classes? I’m an artist my music is up, but I’m engineering and doing everything on my own… I see that you’re with Warp Academy.. I was wondering if you offer “You personally-any other training courses?
Hey hey. Glad you've been diggin the videos. Yes, I'm one of the founders of Warp Academy and we have a ton of courses there. Some of them by me, others by our whole team of instructors. I also mix and master music, so you could work with me on that directly. Or I offer a one-on-one coaching program called Accelerate here: warpacademy.com/vespers-accelerate-coaching/
If you want to inquire about mixing and mastering, HMU here: vespers.ca/services/audio-engineering/
Cheers!
@@warpacademy that is awesome. Yes, I am definitely interested.
Cheers! HMU whenever. I'd be stoked to work with you.
What do you think about audio degradation by running it through melodyne? I definitely hear a bit of high freq loss after running it through melodyne, even on words that aren’t adjusted.
Thanks for the comment. I’ve personally never noticed anything much in terms of HF loss, but perhaps that’s because o do this as a first stage before I EQ the vocal and maybe I’m just adding it back in mixing.
Also I would say that degradation and HF loss are 2 different things. HF loss can be added back with a high shelf boost. Degradation may be distortion or loss of resolution or something else.
What are you noticing and how much?
@@warpacademy basically what i did was i pitch shifted one note and tried to null the rest. As soon as one note was shifted nothing nulled. Amplitude adjustment on one note did not cause issues. Everything still nulled
I did a blind a/b test and could identify the non processed audio as slightly clearer. So i know there IS a difference, but I’m not sure how big of a deal that difference is. If it’s a slight time shift and slightly less high frequency then it can be eqd. If it is causing comb filtering or something then that’s more of an issue.
The more concerning thing though is that the audio that was not touched didn’t null and yet doing only amplitude adjustments did not cause this issue. Are you able to replicate this?
Whoa. That’s interesting. Thanks for letting me know. What version of Melodyne are you using? And did you discuss this with their support?
melodyne adds atifacts to vocals,why?how to avoid
Hey hey. It’s the nature of this type of processing that it will add some slight artifacts. All pitch correction will. It’s a matter of minimizing them and that’s what I discuss in the video. For example I talk about not using the pitch modulation tool and instead using the pitch drift tool when possible. Not pitching breaths. And splitting notes more finely that need pitch mod alteration.
@@warpacademy hey✌️does recording in higher sample and bit rate help? like increasing the resolution?
In my opinion, there’s no noticeable difference beyond working in 48 kHz and most mastering engineers I know work at that rate. There are many who would disagree with me tho, but the real test is can they identify what recording is what, consistently, in a blinded test. And I think that has been answered by research.
Get a Daw with ARA
While that would be nice to have as a feature there no way I’m switching away from Ableton Live. Too many good reasons to stay here.
@@warpacademy are you familiar with other DAWs e.g. Cubase Nuendo. If you are, you will easily find a lot more features then in Live.
It depends on what you value in a DAW. I started on Reason, used Cubase heavily for many years, I've worked in Logic etc. Short answer, I do my research before settling on what tools I use and I love Live for perhaps some reasons you don't personally value.
Cubase has many interesting features, especially for vocal tuning and vocal time alignment. If I was seriously considering using another DAW, it would be Cubase or FL but for very different reasons. But each of them also feels very clunky and slow to me compared to Live.
You do you mate! I'm happy with my choice.
Melodyne is hard to use like just moving things around is hard
Yeah, it's a little fussy for sure. Like anything, once you get used to it, it feels more natural. But at the beginning it feels cumbersome. I think it's still the best vocal tuning platform in terms of sound though.
It’s my go to for breath, sibilance, and plosive control
Exactly. So much control.
@@ItsMetabtw I keep getting stuck is there like a GUI beginner tutorial
I do cover all of that in my video. Did you not see the process of splitting off the breaths, plosives and sibilants with the slice tool? All you do is use the amplitude tool on them to reduce volume. Super easy with that approach. It’s just manual gain.
I disagree with you saying that you can't get away from even the odd bit of vocal tuning. This is simply not true.
That’s the beauty of subjectivity. We all get a preference and an opinion. I’ve never met (heard) a vocalist that I didn’t want to tune, just a little bit. But I’m no purist. Many people are.
I like a certain sound that’s more “on grid” but not stepped on too much. I try to thread the needle on natural sound but a modern one that fits my style of music and that of my clients.
There’s so much music out there that we can all find what we want to listen to.
People buy a song with a sung melody. Hard or soft tuned, it's all wrong. And the Cher FX is more honest. What the music industry wants/likes/sells is also a reason why young people are psychologically destroyed if they are not perfect. A terrible path we all walk. Not being perfect is the most human thing you can achieve.
I dig that that's where your head's at with this. Looking at the bigger picture. I would tend to agree with you. But if we're going there, it's not Melodyne or vocal tuning that's psychologically destroying young people, it's social media and the multitude of screens they are addicted to. That is the ultimate negative comparison, when people compare themselves to the projection of perfection of someone's public profile life.
@@warpacademy 👍
People made music for thousands of years without auto-tune. Learn your parts practice your singing and do it that way instead. It will always sound better.
But what about all the people who can't sing? ;) Joking, but for us as engineers we need this stuff in our tool kit. It's part of the suite of essential services that an engineer must use to dial in music for their clients.
And, on a personal note, I'm a classically trained pianist and jazz saxophonist. I've played since I was 5. And regardless of that experience, I still tune my performances from the sax. I still make slight timing adjustments. It's not about being a purist virtuoso. It's about getting the job done and not fussing about being a total perfectionist for me. Plus you can do sweet things like making harmonies and reinforcing octave parts. All without recording a ton of additional takes, if you want. It's liberating.
Why do you even open video then about melodyne, if you are going to comment something opposite of what video talks about, such a moron, it literally makes difference, best singers alive go out of note slightly and need tuning for it to sound perfect, your comment is such nonsense...
Have you watched Jordan Valeriotes video from yesterday where he did a blind test with 1000 people, over 800 preferred the tuned vocal without knowing that was the only difference. If that’s your argument, people would still be bopping Gregorian Chant from the 9th century on the radio. Pro tip, they aren’t. 😂
It literally won’t always sound better. The best you can hope for is that a singer sounds on par with the tuned vocal. In all but the most practiced and talented singers on the planet, that won’t happen. And even if it does, the ROI on time invested to get that good vs an hour in melodyne from a good engineer won’t ever be appreciated on record.
I didn’t know about that test. But it makes complete sense. Can you link the video if there is one?
You didn’t play the final version! lol thanks for the tips brother! 🎵💪🏽🫡 - WHITTIER, CA
My bad. Here's the final version in the release: open.spotify.com/album/0vXS6NK2Nr1sLHvLSSVGeA