Price has very little to do with entry level. It's all about style and the correct image of the ride. The 16K price of a Sporster S to a collage grad making 80K on his first job is peanuts. If you can't afford a new bike they got plenty of used sporty's they can sell ya!!!
@@markcardwell3691 that's my whole point. Even though there aren't many recent college grads making $80k, specially with liberal arts degrees and $50k in loans. Entry level for most brands are 600ccish type bikes that make decent power and are easy to handle. All for under $10k. Indian can get you on a Scout Bobber Sixty for under $11k.
Thats what the soft tail models are there entry bikes I wouldn't waste my money on a Indian. Plus a 600cc sport bike isn't a good investment either but its your money. I'm just saying I have a 21 street Bob it's 17k after everything and it's a 114 ci
Every time I think about buying a HD RG I weigh all the pros and cons at the price they are charging and then the added costs for all the extras. I go NOPE! I tell my riding buddies who own them you really need to be fan boys to put up with that. They smile and say: I know but wouldn't have it any other way. I guess that what keeps HD in business. For how long- I don't know. I ride a Kawasaki and laugh all the way to the bank.
You're too right. My wife (who ride as a passenger with me on just about every ride) asks me how come Harley makes cruiser style bikes and then puts a downward rear sloping passenger seat on the bike? Also, how come Harley puts such a stupid seat on touring bikes - aren't they suppose tp be good for long distances? There's no way she could sit on that seat for more than 5 minutes. How come you spend that much on a new Harley and you then have to spend another $500 on a decent seat because a passenger can't ride on a seat that follows the shape of the rear fender. I just say it's got to do with 'show' and ripping off the customer. Man, Harley is limiting production (CVOs and 120 anniv models) and thereby forcing up prices. They have increased prices to the point of selling fewer bikes but still making the profit - it's about the bottom line and stuff customer loyalty. Time will tell if that strategy is going to work.
jochen zeitz is gonna run them into the ground. there not catering to the younger generations what so ever. still only to the old generation and stigma of Harley, with the old generation soon to die off the young generation isn't going to be into them because of performance and price. I have a 2021 street bob I do love it and me and my buddies ride our Harleys like there sport bikes, we push the bikes limits. id like to see lower prices and more performance, keep the classic styles around as well.
Buy a decent used early 2000s Harley of your choice. Paint it the color or colors you want, option it with the tons of available aftermarket parts and performance parts. You can do this for WAY LESS than a new P.O.S. 2023 Harley and you'll have something to be proud of that you built....not bought. rocket
That old look is Harley's thing. The underlying bike has changed immensely over the years. As far as I'm concerned, they perfected the Road King which is the only one that fits the riding I do. My issue with HD is they killed that model. FWIW, mine came with the RDRS. The only part of it I'd miss is the TPMS. I find that kinda useful. The Breakout is a new bike. I actually preferred the previous version, but the new one gets a bigger gas tank and Cruise Control IIRC. I like color and contrast, but the new one is even a little too conspicuous for me. The massive price rises is where they lose me. Ain't like they were cheap to begin with. Now, they'll cost more than my cars. I definitely don't want to see HD take any of their lineup and add sportbike wheels and whatnot. HDs have a stable ride that I like. Adding tiny wheel will never make an HD into an GSXR.
I’ve owned HD’s since 1978. This past fall I purchased the Polaris Challenger. Only because HD hasn’t produced a liquid cooled cruiser. I can say I think HD’s motorcycles are better quality. To much plastic on the Polaris. Consumer loyalty is a funny thing. Ride On.
In my sixties and looking for what could possibly could be my last bike, I’ve owned a bit over 50 including 3 Harley’s. Had an ‘89 Electra Glide Classic in Brandywine and Crimson, very close in color-way to the new anniversary red and thought it nicely done on the Street Glide so put it on my wishlist as I loved my Electra Glide. Researched pricing, $31K if recalled correctly, before any dealer plus pluses which I imagine, as a limited production, will be out of control. No HD dealer will get a call or visit from me in attempts to negotiate a fair price, instantly rejecting the idea at the web page level. A $25K bike all day long maybe. As a car wholesale friend of mine once said “there’s an ass for every seat” so every one will sell at retail or above, just not to me and I’m truly envious of all who get one but that juice is not worth the squeeze to me unfortunately. Thinking I’m putting my money on a ‘23 R1250RT; as Aretha Franklin so beautifully sang “who’s zoomin who”. Cheers and I can tell you HD’s not listening brother.
@@philipperron1810 Street Glide in 120th anniversary paint 30,899.00, freight 850.00, HD factory surcharge 1000.00 so $32,749.00 retail before the dealer limited availability charge, set-up, and documentation fee’s and whatever additional plus pluses they can come up with. No ones buying one of these for under 25K and BMW got my money anyway. Ride well and safe.
Tech? How about at very least making LED lighting, all around, standard! First thing I had to do was junk the headlight, brake lights, and turn signals for LED, extra $400 just to make it acceptably visible on the road.
Beginners do not ride brand new motorcycles unless they are stupid. Beginners ride used motorcycles that they can afford. When they drop the bike the first time if they get back up on it and ride it they will be a writer if they get back up and sell it then they will drive a car. It is a defining moment. I passed a nice running little 250 Honda Rebel that the old man was selling for $800. Beautiful new looking low mileage. Got snapped up in 3 days. That is the kind of bike a beginner get.
Everything HD does is for one reason and one reason only, MAXIMUM PROFITS they make it cheaper and cheaper and take away things like 2 fobs heal toe shifter closing vents on the RGs back to cable clutches because they don't want to do it right and then try and convince us thats what we want LMAO no not even close, Indian has been innovating things like remote locks adjustable windshields ect..all harley wants to do is charge a maximum price for minimum effort and they just can't figure out why people are interested and looking elsewhere WOW
your idea of releasing a RoadGlide King of the Bagger edition with 17" wheels, increased suspension travel and adaptive ride height is an amazing idea, and doable with what is already out there. I love that.
Very well said. They are definitely going in the wrong direction no question about it. They claim they want to be a premium brand. It's a motorcycle there is no premium nothing motorcycle. But I think they mean by premium they mean a premium price. They need to come out with a more touring oriented motorcycles with the engine that is in the pan America. I think they're just so greedy they can't even see straight. Hate to say it but I think Harley is on the way out
You know also I have been riding HD for 26 years, long before the brake system and fancy gizmos and I am still here if you learn to ride properly then you have nothing to worry about. That being said the new stuff is really nice and I do like the anniversary Road Glide for 23 that red is bad ass with the black out look..
No doubt they look great. I do love the new Fast Johnny Road Glide ST - but for $35k!!!! Yeah, no. An ST is typically clocked at going 0-60 in 4.6 seconds. I get that same performance from my 1989 Goldwing GL1500. Granted the Fast Johnny ST is lightyears better looking.
Harley-Davidson did the same thing as Lionel trains did with this year's catalog. New paint new prices old product nothing to write home about. Nothing to get excited about nothing to drool over. Big disappointment
Very good video, I agree completely. The prices are out of control for what you get. Having owned 2 HD's, I can't say I'd buy another in a few yrs because of the direction prices are going and what you get. $40-$50K... , I'll keep my current HD and just buy a fun car to whip around. I appreaciate the video
Thanks for watching and commenting. I'll likely own mine for a long time. It was used when I bought it. I don't see myself buying another one or a new one for a long time.
I believe they purposely left out the ultra cvo last year and so none far this year. They push the RG because I believe they are much cheaper to build yet bring the same price.
Right? There are folks out there who wont spend n=more than $10k out the door. HD needs to figure out the entry segment. Porsche does this. They say an entry Porsche is a used Porsche. HD is not Porsche but they do have a German CEO so.......
Just in case moving outside the realm of show being to scary, how about allowing us to choose blacked out or chromed out, at least? Assembled here in the US, so picking from your annual color pallet and choosing chrome or black may help with that high end pricing.
Sorry, would had loved for the anniversary editions to have color palettes not seen before and a 117, but willing to opt for any customer focused win here.
Good video and comments. Sadly HD is doomed to fail as the prices are getting out of control. Baby boomers are dying off and the upcoming generations can’t afford it. (Another blow is the anniversary paint schedule that looks like the 1978 Goldwing) Cheers, Eddie
Harley-Davidson had sportbikes when they had the fuel line and they treated them like a redheaded stepchild until they finally killed it. Typical Harley corporate stupidity incarnate.
Great video. I've been looking at Harley for a long time now. Every year they succeed in pricing me out of buying a new bike. They offer nothing compared to Indian. Everything is extra. Surcharges for what? As for technology, keep your navigation and give me Carplay or Android Auto. I can take care of my own entertainment. You are 100% right about including traction control and other safety features. Their CEO isn't even American so what do you expect. Harley Davidson lost me.
Javier, I have to disagree with you there a little bit. I tried to buy a Indian Challenger Limited about a year before Covid and they were just as bad as Harley. They wouldn't come off of MSRP and had their ad on. I believe a $27,000.00 plus was over $30,000.00. I was told that Polaris set the pricing in stone(so to speak) NOT ME I AM NOT THAT STUPID! I will say this I rode another limited in 2021 at the Panama City Beach Spring Rally and it did ride better the Road Glide Special and definitely had more power. But I am not paying anyone MSRP PLUS! For me personally think the the Harley's look a little better. If you are being honest, you have to admit all the Indians resemble a Harley of some model. I am not Paying 4 to 4-1/2" times for what it cost to build these things. Read my comment above how I know this. Just like all Cars and Trucks these bikes are built on a Production Line. Parts are massed produce. Engines and transmissions are assemble on a production line as with other parts that goes on these bike. As long as People pay these prices they will continue to go up. I will just keep riding my 2015 Street Glide Special which I paid less than MSRP for out the door.
harley is a dumbed down company lets face it. They will continue to mistreat their customer base they are focused more on their clothing line. Harley Brass recognize that folks who buy are harley most of them anyway know that they will not get the performance and technology with HD they do want the image thats it.
HD quality is not up to standards... the M8 engine has too many issues still. They use inferior engine parts. My last HD had bad lifters, which destroyed the cam. 500 miles later it sumped and destroyed the engine. It only had 8500 miles on the clock and was 3 years old. I would much rather see them improve what they have instead of going show with no go. My two cents.
I advise everyone not to go to the Harley 120th anniversary. They have a band playing that is vehement Lee un American. The band hates this country and its leader wants to renounce citizenship. As a veteran I am insulted at their choice of entertainment as well as a $200 per ticket charge to listen to that garbage. People thought Elton John was bad disband Takes the Cake. I asked that all Harley Riders who are veterans to boycott this event.
I am not talking about buying a motorcycle. I'm talking about boycotting event that is an insult to veterans. How in their right mind they could hire a band like that I have no idea but Harley has no brains at all if anything they do anymore at all.
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 Frank I am with you on this! Harley is going or has gone Woke! And the saying is if you go Woke you go Broke. I believe this world is going crazy, but it is Expected. The Liberal Demo-rats are doing everything they can to destroy this country. Look for a new article called "Beware the Useful Idiots" by Garret Geer. When you read this, you will see that everything that is written is happening today. Bottom line, they are wanting to destroy everything you and other Veterans fought for. Socialism is their goal. The only thing that will send Harley a message is, if People would just let them sat on the show room floors.
It would have been so simple to upgrade lights, suspension, brakes. Only fools will buy these new bikes to get the same thing that older bikes offer. Oh wait, we got some pretty colors. (sigh)
Agreed, it isn't that tough to make some incremental improvements. Look at how Porsche has evolved the 911. Harley wants to be the luxury/high-end brand of touring bikes, they need to take a page from the 911 book of development.
Harley makes great looking bikes and they do sound good but technology is not much part of the package. Harleys are not fast and nimble. For Harley money, one can ride a BMW, Ducati or KTM, all of which have better performance.
Correct. I have always had a BMW bike in the stable. Still do. I want the US to win and would love HD to figure out how to be an exceptional motorcycle company across the board and not just a small niche bagger bro brand. They can do better but I think they're struggling with being held hostage to their slowly fading core buyers.
Harley is in a tough spot. They can't innovate/change too much without ticking off the aging cult. And unless they can make a bike to compete with the marketplace in terms of performance and price, they can't attract a new generation of riders. I mean, if you're married to that Harley-like appearance, you can get into a BMW R18 for $20K.
What’s also interesting is that they are pricing out their loyal base also. It’s perplexing to me why Harley can’t figure out a sporty entry level bike that gets the 20-something’s fired up for an American bike.
Buy a new Harley, and there's always a laundry list of improvements that need to be made which are developed by backyard garage companies with no engineering degrees yet they offer better components than Harley Davidson.
WTF#%$ !!!🗨️👎😲💢 I agree , Harley-Davidson has been long ago focused on aesthetics and robbing its loyal customer base on accessories , technology and unfair pricing thus inducing sticker shock ! ! ! Harley-Davidson is financially non-approachable to new riders in my opinion.
Adventure bikes are four posers of a different kind the way Harleys are for their kind of posers. People don't need expensive 600-pound Adventure bikes to go in the dirt and people who buy them certainly don't because if they drop them it's going to cost a ton of money to get them fixed
@@ianlaker6980 you are the one talking out your ass. People were going around the world on Airhead BMWs and old-fashioned Triumph and BSA motorcycles long before the adventures crap ever started. Today's adventure bikes are for opposer of a different kind just like the Harley One play badass biker the other one plays world Adventure. And neither one is true in reality. I have been riding for over fifty years and I don't have a PlayStation
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 All us plebs that haven't been around the world on a C90 You've answered your own question from you're ivory tower of smugness. Fancy belittling every other biker with your adventure bike prejudice.
@@ianlaker6980 I just call them like I see them. No point of my statement was inaccurate. I've watched both kinds of motorcycles morph into the overweight overcomplicated monstrosity that they are today. Rider magazine did a road test of an adventure bike and it fell on the writer. He had to wait for the photographer to catch up to him to help him get the bike off of him.
@@ianlaker6980 one more thing when I took my big trip after the Air Force my lady friend in London picked up a nice little Royal Enfield 350 single a real one. I toured all over Europe Roadie to the boot of Italy. Then I wrote it all across the Middle East took a ship to Rhodesia and then I rode my little bike all through sub-Saharan Africa. That was a bike I had an adventure on.
TPMS is designed to tell you about a sudden loss of pressure while you’re rolling. It doesn’t work until you start. You should always check it yourself before you ride. It’s supposed to help you identify a potentially unsafe event if you get a puncture doing 70 on the highway or while your off road on a trail. You don’t want to find out once it’s unrecoverable or dangerous. I also have a Road Glide Ultra. The rear valve stem is practically unreachable with the pipes and bags. The front valve stem is also hard to reach. Checking the front pressure takes a contortionist with tiny hands.
@@riddlerrides I don't need a machine to tell me about a sudden loss of air on a tire. Been there done that more than once. Don't need a machine to tell me my tires going flat.
@@riddlerrides I guess that's what you get when you have a new state-of-the-art Harley. My Sportster my Airhead Beamers my collection of British bikes now everything I have it's not hard to get to nothing. Frankly I don't understand why people just don't buy a motor from S&S either a vintage motor like a flat or knuckle or a pan or a modern motor like an evolution at build a bike around that motor you can pick and choose sheet metal you want pretty nice belt primary and final drive on it what kind of Wheels you want what kind of shit you want without having to pay for a bunch of bulshit government pollution regulations as well as for crappy original equipment that you're going to spend a fortune to replace anyway. I have four hundred thousand miles on my 99 Sportster 883 on original engine untouched except for the little bearing that goes out in the clutch every 50 to 60 thousand miles but the clutch and primary are all original as well. Ironically I bought the bike so when I would need to have engine service done I would have a plethora of choices. It runs good drives good and is now on its 37th back tire. I am so glad the Chinese are coming out with an evolution Sportster they are going to rub their success with it in Harley's face. It is going to be cheaper than Harley-Davidson fake 350 Chinese motorcycle which is going to be more than either a Stormbreaker or a Royal Enfield interceptor I'm twice as much as a Royal Enfield 350 meteor. I want whatever they're smoking it must be some good shit man.
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 I respect your mechanical talent. I have more work to do but I love putting effort into doing as much as I can on my own. My real point is that for the cost of what their charging, the features I mentioned would be reasonable. I totally agree that a Royal Einfield is a compelling machine for what they’re charging. I keep looking at the prospect of picking one up.
The nightster s has special 70s styling. The wheel and tire combo alone is 1000+ dollar upgrade, and you only pay a little over a thousand dollars for the upgrads. The new tank,paint and wheels. You can hate all you want,but put a Harley next to bmw,honda ,and the other bikes , Harley just smokes them. Everybody was bitching Harley should do this and that. They did it and your still fuckin complaining. Take it or leave it,or stick to your plastic bikes.
I've always believed the harleys were the most overpriced hunks of metal, nothing special. I'd take an Indian challenger dark horse or Japanese bike anyday like an M109r. My big question is why does harley davidson charge so much for bikes that are inferior to others, is it the name? History? I truly don't understand it. I feel for the guys that buy these bikes and think they have a better bike than everyone else. Harleys are also known for unreliability, I wouldn't spend thousands fir that just to ride around with a name. My brother recently bought a harley and after 1800 miles started smoking, very dissapointing.
In all honestly, I hope they can figure out how to succeed and attract more American buyers to the segment. We need more riders in the motorcycle community and I like seeing great American companies do well.
HD just refuses to make bikes people would buy at prices that are competitive with the competition. The Road glide race bike will never be made, its a great idea. They should have put lights on the XR750 but never sold it for the street. Ducati sells lots of Scramblers. HD should have had one on the market a decade ago. They would have sold millions when Evel Knievel filling stadiums and selling toys. What is the worst part of this is that HD has the ability to do any of these things. They simply refuse. Its one of the worst run companies on the planet. Bronx anyone?
Lmao.....Breakout is a modern Chopper design. It really made to go straight not like a sportbike. More of a drag bike. With the new 117, the breakout is a perfect chopper from the factory with massive torque and yes with 21 inch front wheel. Again, it is design as a modern chopper. Have you seen a real chopper with 17 inch wheel? Although, I ride my breakout like a sportbike, because it is capable of it if you know how to ride professionally and used to race before. I just think criticizing something you have no knowlege or actual experience on something will make sense on most owners out there. To some maybe, but most motorcycle owners know the truth. Harley has a lot of models for customers, it's not a one size fits all. You pick what fits you and what belongs to your travel lifestyle. My Street Glide ST has 117 with performance cams from the factory just like the CVO. That's 126 ft. Lb. of torque my friend. Coming from sportbikes, trust me 126 ft. Lb. of torque is massive. Harley ain't about Horsepower, it's all about the torque. Now with ABS, Cruise control, adjustable shocks, Navigation system, traction control ETC, ECM, RDRS, bluetooth, brembo brakes and all the full tilt booggie.....that sounds like a great bike to me. On top of that , a better paint job like you are not a big fan of and wayyyyy better after market parts and accessories availability. Like I said before, only two brands worth owning here in America. Harley and Jeep Wranglers, due to its customers loyalty , owners group decade after decade, the spirit of american freedom that exists only with these brands....so regardless on how negative you feel about it, either you're an AMERICAN or AMERICAN'T. The culture is already sealed.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I respect your perspective and appreciate your participation. After 24 years and counting in the military I think I have good idea of what AmeriCan is. I also understand the weakness of unquestioned conformity. I mention in the video that I like the way the Breakout looks - just not a fan of 21” street wheels. Even drag bikes have approximately 18” wheels. Your assertion that Harley has a lot of choices is interesting since I think we both agree that more choices are great. The problem is that Harley has been systematically reducing choices, models and options while raising prices. I’d love to see them come out with more options to include more performance focused bikes. They’re getting closer now that the King of the Baggers is starting to influence new models starting with your ST - I love the STs.
To be honest all the technology can be a great thing! It can be excessive as well as distracting and expensive to fix when it goes wrong. I agree that Harley is killing itself and may fade into history. The bikes have become bulky oversized mammoths, and unaffordable. I went back in time and bought a 93 Springer with its Evo motor and 5 speed trans! No gadgets or technology, just good clean simple stuff!
Harley Davidson: the perfect bike for middle-aged men that don’t know shit about bikes and need the approval of other middle-aged men to feel any self worth. Leather pirates.
They also walked away from the entry level riders by not offering any models under $10k, not one!
Price has very little to do with entry level. It's all about style and the correct image of the ride. The 16K price of a Sporster S to a collage grad making 80K on his first job is peanuts. If you can't afford a new bike they got plenty of used sporty's they can sell ya!!!
@@markcardwell3691 that's my whole point. Even though there aren't many recent college grads making $80k, specially with liberal arts degrees and $50k in loans. Entry level for most brands are 600ccish type bikes that make decent power and are easy to handle. All for under $10k. Indian can get you on a Scout Bobber Sixty for under $11k.
@@markcardwell3691 right over your head.
Thats what the soft tail models are there entry bikes I wouldn't waste my money on a Indian. Plus a 600cc sport bike isn't a good investment either but its your money. I'm just saying I have a 21 street Bob it's 17k after everything and it's a 114 ci
Yep Indian and metrics won the entry level.. both my nephews bought scouts… there nice
I have had so many new Harleys, every 2 years average 45,000 miles. They finally got to expensive for me now.
Every time I think about buying a HD RG I weigh all the pros and cons at the price they are charging and then the added costs for all the extras. I go NOPE! I tell my riding buddies who own them you really need to be fan boys to put up with that. They smile and say: I know but wouldn't have it any other way. I guess that what keeps HD in business. For how long- I don't know. I ride a Kawasaki and laugh all the way to the bank.
You're too right. My wife (who ride as a passenger with me on just about every ride) asks me how come Harley makes cruiser style bikes and then puts a downward rear sloping passenger seat on the bike? Also, how come Harley puts such a stupid seat on touring bikes - aren't they suppose tp be good for long distances? There's no way she could sit on that seat for more than 5 minutes. How come you spend that much on a new Harley and you then have to spend another $500 on a decent seat because a passenger can't ride on a seat that follows the shape of the rear fender. I just say it's got to do with 'show' and ripping off the customer. Man, Harley is limiting production (CVOs and 120 anniv models) and thereby forcing up prices. They have increased prices to the point of selling fewer bikes but still making the profit - it's about the bottom line and stuff customer loyalty. Time will tell if that strategy is going to work.
I have had a couple of Harley baggers over the years….prices these days are ridiculous. I am looking at Honda Goldwing now.
jochen zeitz is gonna run them into the ground. there not catering to the younger generations what so ever. still only to the old generation and stigma of Harley, with the old generation soon to die off the young generation isn't going to be into them because of performance and price. I have a 2021 street bob I do love it and me and my buddies ride our Harleys like there sport bikes, we push the bikes limits. id like to see lower prices and more performance, keep the classic styles around as well.
Buy a decent used early 2000s Harley of your choice. Paint it the color or colors you want, option it with the tons of available aftermarket parts and performance parts. You can do this for WAY LESS than a new P.O.S. 2023 Harley and you'll have something to be proud of that you built....not bought.
rocket
21" wheels follow every crack and rut in the road.
That old look is Harley's thing. The underlying bike has changed immensely over the years. As far as I'm concerned, they perfected the Road King which is the only one that fits the riding I do. My issue with HD is they killed that model. FWIW, mine came with the RDRS. The only part of it I'd miss is the TPMS. I find that kinda useful.
The Breakout is a new bike. I actually preferred the previous version, but the new one gets a bigger gas tank and Cruise Control IIRC. I like color and contrast, but the new one is even a little too conspicuous for me.
The massive price rises is where they lose me. Ain't like they were cheap to begin with. Now, they'll cost more than my cars.
I definitely don't want to see HD take any of their lineup and add sportbike wheels and whatnot. HDs have a stable ride that I like. Adding tiny wheel will never make an HD into an GSXR.
Great take. Thanks for commenting
I just came across your channel and subscribed.
I’ve owned HD’s since 1978. This past fall I purchased the Polaris Challenger. Only because HD hasn’t produced a liquid cooled cruiser. I can say I think HD’s motorcycles are better quality. To much plastic on the Polaris. Consumer loyalty is a funny thing. Ride On.
LOL! Sure you bought a Challenger.
@@semperfipar1299 2021 Challenger Limited, deep water Metallic. Want pictures? Jealous much?
Love my Challenger, have a Chieftain and Vic Hammer too.
In my sixties and looking for what could possibly could be my last bike, I’ve owned a bit over 50 including 3 Harley’s. Had an ‘89 Electra Glide Classic in Brandywine and Crimson, very close in color-way to the new anniversary red and thought it nicely done on the Street Glide so put it on my wishlist as I loved my Electra Glide. Researched pricing, $31K if recalled correctly, before any dealer plus pluses which I imagine, as a limited production, will be out of control. No HD dealer will get a call or visit from me in attempts to negotiate a fair price, instantly rejecting the idea at the web page level.
A $25K bike all day long maybe. As a car wholesale friend of mine once said “there’s an ass for every seat” so every one will sell at retail or above, just not to me and I’m truly envious of all who get one but that juice is not worth the squeeze to me unfortunately. Thinking I’m putting my money on a ‘23 R1250RT; as Aretha Franklin so beautifully sang “who’s zoomin who”. Cheers and I can tell you HD’s not listening brother.
The 1250RT is worth every penny. Thanks for watching and commenting
You can buy a 2023 RG for just under 25k.
@@philipperron1810 Street Glide in 120th anniversary paint 30,899.00, freight 850.00, HD factory surcharge 1000.00 so $32,749.00 retail before the dealer limited availability charge, set-up, and documentation fee’s and whatever additional plus pluses they can come up with. No ones buying one of these for under 25K and BMW got my money anyway. Ride well and safe.
Tech? How about at very least making LED lighting, all around, standard! First thing I had to do was junk the headlight, brake lights, and turn signals for LED, extra $400 just to make it acceptably visible on the road.
You think 30K will attract new riders? That might be the bike that you want but new riders don't even consider bikes that expensive.
Not much going on with the new models because slick willie is probably getting ready to sell to india or china.
Beginners do not ride brand new motorcycles unless they are stupid. Beginners ride used motorcycles that they can afford. When they drop the bike the first time if they get back up on it and ride it they will be a writer if they get back up and sell it then they will drive a car. It is a defining moment. I passed a nice running little 250 Honda Rebel that the old man was selling for $800. Beautiful new looking low mileage. Got snapped up in 3 days. That is the kind of bike a beginner get.
A smart beginner takes a motorcycle foundation riding course so they do not drop their bike.
Nailed it. .
This is why I left HD and have not looked back since my 22 RGL. It was nice but lack luster. The Indian is a far better bike period.
Everything HD does is for one reason and one reason only, MAXIMUM PROFITS they make it cheaper and cheaper and take away things like 2 fobs heal toe shifter closing vents on the RGs back to cable clutches because they don't want to do it right and then try and convince us thats what we want LMAO no not even close, Indian has been innovating things like remote locks adjustable windshields ect..all harley wants to do is charge a maximum price for minimum effort and they just can't figure out why people are interested and looking elsewhere WOW
your idea of releasing a RoadGlide King of the Bagger edition with 17" wheels, increased suspension travel and adaptive ride height is an amazing idea, and doable with what is already out there. I love that.
I would definitely be interested in an R model. Maybe with the 135 motor that was just released or at least a 131 from the factory.
Very well said. They are definitely going in the wrong direction no question about it. They claim they want to be a premium brand. It's a motorcycle there is no premium nothing motorcycle. But I think they mean by premium they mean a premium price. They need to come out with a more touring oriented motorcycles with the engine that is in the pan America. I think they're just so greedy they can't even see straight. Hate to say it but I think Harley is on the way out
Spot on !!
You know also I have been riding HD for 26 years, long before the brake system and fancy gizmos and I am still here if you learn to ride properly then you have nothing to worry about. That being said the new stuff is really nice and I do like the anniversary Road Glide for 23 that red is bad ass with the black out look..
No doubt they look great. I do love the new Fast Johnny Road Glide ST - but for $35k!!!! Yeah, no. An ST is typically clocked at going 0-60 in 4.6 seconds. I get that same performance from my 1989 Goldwing GL1500. Granted the Fast Johnny ST is lightyears better looking.
Harley-Davidson did the same thing as Lionel trains did with this year's catalog. New paint new prices old product nothing to write home about. Nothing to get excited about nothing to drool over. Big disappointment
Very good video, I agree completely. The prices are out of control for what you get. Having owned 2 HD's, I can't say I'd buy another in a few yrs because of the direction prices are going and what you get. $40-$50K... , I'll keep my current HD and just buy a fun car to whip around. I appreaciate the video
Thanks for watching and commenting. I'll likely own mine for a long time. It was used when I bought it. I don't see myself buying another one or a new one for a long time.
I believe they purposely left out the ultra cvo last year and so none far this year. They push the RG because I believe they are much cheaper to build yet bring the same price.
Dear HD: I will NEV ERR pay more than $20,000 for ANY motorcycle.
Right? There are folks out there who wont spend n=more than $10k out the door. HD needs to figure out the entry segment. Porsche does this. They say an entry Porsche is a used Porsche. HD is not Porsche but they do have a German CEO so.......
Just in case moving outside the realm of show being to scary, how about allowing us to choose blacked out or chromed out, at least? Assembled here in the US, so picking from your annual color pallet and choosing chrome or black may help with that high end pricing.
Sorry, would had loved for the anniversary editions to have color palettes not seen before and a 117, but willing to opt for any customer focused win here.
They eliminated the hydraulic clutch, key fob, heel shifter, and closable vent
They did not eliminate the key fob...or the open/closed vent.
@philipperron1810 they stopped giving 2 keyfobs and the windshield vent can no longer be closed.
@Joe Reece I just picked up a 2023 within the past month...it has a key fob...AND a faring vent that opens & closes...
@philipperron1810 road glide maybe not the street glide or ultra limited. Did you get a heel shifter or 2 keyfobs?
@Joe Reece no heel shifter...I take those off anyway...just 1 key fob/1 keys
Good video and comments. Sadly HD is doomed to fail as the prices are getting out of control. Baby boomers are dying off and the upcoming generations can’t afford it. (Another blow is the anniversary paint schedule that looks like the 1978 Goldwing) Cheers, Eddie
agreed fully
Thanks for commenting Eddie.
Its not even American parts lol thats not all American
Inflation is a bitch. Harley can bypass the effects of Inflation
Harley-Davidson had sportbikes when they had the fuel line and they treated them like a redheaded stepchild until they finally killed it. Typical Harley corporate stupidity incarnate.
Great video. I've been looking at Harley for a long time now. Every year they succeed in pricing me out of buying a new bike. They offer nothing compared to Indian. Everything is extra. Surcharges for what? As for technology, keep your navigation and give me Carplay or Android Auto. I can take care of my own entertainment. You are 100% right about including traction control and other safety features. Their CEO isn't even American so what do you expect. Harley Davidson lost me.
Javier, I have to disagree with you there a little bit. I tried to buy a Indian Challenger Limited about a year before Covid and they were just as bad as Harley. They wouldn't come off of MSRP and had their ad on. I believe a $27,000.00 plus was over $30,000.00. I was told that Polaris set the pricing in stone(so to speak)
NOT ME I AM NOT THAT STUPID! I will say this I rode another limited in 2021 at the Panama City Beach Spring Rally and it did ride better the Road Glide Special and definitely had more power. But I am not paying anyone MSRP PLUS!
For me personally think the the Harley's look a little better. If you are being honest, you have to admit all the Indians resemble a Harley of some model. I am not Paying 4 to 4-1/2" times for what it cost to build these things. Read my comment above how I know this. Just like all Cars and Trucks these bikes are built on a Production Line. Parts are massed produce. Engines and transmissions are assemble on a production line as with other parts that goes on these bike. As long as People pay these prices they will continue to go up. I will just keep riding my 2015 Street Glide Special which I paid less than MSRP for out the door.
The CEO is not the person who should be in that seat. He is the reason why innovation is non-existent
@@dougcox2537 I totally agree but you do get more for the price and that was where I going with that.
Man I rode cross country on 23in wheel and was comfy!SMH
harley is a dumbed down company lets face it. They will continue to mistreat their customer base they are focused more on their clothing line. Harley Brass recognize that folks who buy are harley most of them anyway know that they will not get the performance and technology with HD they do want the image thats it.
HD quality is not up to standards... the M8 engine has too many issues still. They use inferior engine parts. My last HD had bad lifters, which destroyed the cam. 500 miles later it sumped and destroyed the engine. It only had 8500 miles on the clock and was 3 years old. I would much rather see them improve what they have instead of going show with no go. My two cents.
I advise everyone not to go to the Harley 120th anniversary. They have a band playing that is vehement Lee un American. The band hates this country and its leader wants to renounce citizenship. As a veteran I am insulted at their choice of entertainment as well as a $200 per ticket charge to listen to that garbage. People thought Elton John was bad disband Takes the Cake. I asked that all Harley Riders who are veterans to boycott this event.
Unfortunately Harley doesn’t care and will have plenty of dimwits pay to show off.
Just buy an Indian or a 2017 Victory.
I am not talking about buying a motorcycle. I'm talking about boycotting event that is an insult to veterans. How in their right mind they could hire a band like that I have no idea but Harley has no brains at all if anything they do anymore at all.
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 Frank I am with you on this! Harley is going or has gone Woke! And the saying is if you go Woke you go Broke. I believe this world is going crazy, but it is Expected. The Liberal Demo-rats are doing everything they can to destroy this country. Look for a new article called "Beware the Useful Idiots" by
Garret Geer. When you read this, you will see that everything that is written is happening today. Bottom line, they are wanting to destroy everything you and other Veterans fought for. Socialism is their goal.
The only thing that will send Harley a message is, if People would just let them sat on the show room floors.
@@dougcox2537 "you go Woke you go Broke" .... or, "Go fasch, no cash"....
Everything has gone up in pricing.
Definitely. Harder to find great value out there.
It would have been so simple to upgrade lights, suspension, brakes. Only fools will buy these new bikes to get the same thing that older bikes offer. Oh wait, we got some pretty colors. (sigh)
Agreed, it isn't that tough to make some incremental improvements. Look at how Porsche has evolved the 911. Harley wants to be the luxury/high-end brand of touring bikes, they need to take a page from the 911 book of development.
Harley makes great looking bikes and they do sound good but technology is not much part of the package. Harleys are not fast and nimble. For Harley money, one can ride a BMW, Ducati or KTM, all of which have better performance.
Correct. I have always had a BMW bike in the stable. Still do. I want the US to win and would love HD to figure out how to be an exceptional motorcycle company across the board and not just a small niche bagger bro brand. They can do better but I think they're struggling with being held hostage to their slowly fading core buyers.
@@riddlerrides The move to electric vehicles is going to severely challenge traditional Harley riders.
Harley is in a tough spot. They can't innovate/change too much without ticking off the aging cult. And unless they can make a bike to compete with the marketplace in terms of performance and price, they can't attract a new generation of riders. I mean, if you're married to that Harley-like appearance, you can get into a BMW R18 for $20K.
What’s also interesting is that they are pricing out their loyal base also. It’s perplexing to me why Harley can’t figure out a sporty entry level bike that gets the 20-something’s fired up for an American bike.
Buy a new Harley, and there's always a laundry list of improvements that need to be made which are developed by backyard garage companies with no engineering degrees yet they offer better components than Harley Davidson.
Yep. Love the products from Thrashin.
Making a brand "premium" has NOTHING to do with value. All it is is jacking up the price making people want it more. That's it.
Sportster replacement to challange the Scout? Yeah not much difference in performance but lots more money. Hows that going to get younger riders??
WTF#%$ !!!🗨️👎😲💢
I agree , Harley-Davidson has been long ago focused on aesthetics and robbing its loyal customer base on accessories , technology and unfair pricing thus inducing sticker shock ! ! ! Harley-Davidson is financially non-approachable to new riders in my opinion.
Adventure bikes are four posers of a different kind the way Harleys are for their kind of posers. People don't need expensive 600-pound Adventure bikes to go in the dirt and people who buy them certainly don't because if they drop them it's going to cost a ton of money to get them fixed
Arse out talking.
Suppose sports bike riders only venture out when it's sunny.
Obviously ride on a playstation 🤦
@@ianlaker6980 you are the one talking out your ass. People were going around the world on Airhead BMWs and old-fashioned Triumph and BSA motorcycles long before the adventures crap ever started. Today's adventure bikes are for opposer of a different kind just like the Harley One play badass biker the other one plays world Adventure. And neither one is true in reality. I have been riding for over fifty years and I don't have a PlayStation
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 All us plebs that haven't been around the world on a C90
You've answered your own question from you're ivory tower of smugness.
Fancy belittling every other biker with your adventure bike prejudice.
@@ianlaker6980 I just call them like I see them. No point of my statement was inaccurate. I've watched both kinds of motorcycles morph into the overweight overcomplicated monstrosity that they are today. Rider magazine did a road test of an adventure bike and it fell on the writer. He had to wait for the photographer to catch up to him to help him get the bike off of him.
@@ianlaker6980 one more thing when I took my big trip after the Air Force my lady friend in London picked up a nice little Royal Enfield 350 single a real one. I toured all over Europe Roadie to the boot of Italy. Then I wrote it all across the Middle East took a ship to Rhodesia and then I rode my little bike all through sub-Saharan Africa. That was a bike I had an adventure on.
How about checking your oil level yourself and how about checking your air pressure yourself without having a machine do it for you?
TPMS is designed to tell you about a sudden loss of pressure while you’re rolling. It doesn’t work until you start. You should always check it yourself before you ride. It’s supposed to help you identify a potentially unsafe event if you get a puncture doing 70 on the highway or while your off road on a trail. You don’t want to find out once it’s unrecoverable or dangerous.
I also have a Road Glide Ultra. The rear valve stem is practically unreachable with the pipes and bags. The front valve stem is also hard to reach. Checking the front pressure takes a contortionist with tiny hands.
@@riddlerrides I don't need a machine to tell me about a sudden loss of air on a tire. Been there done that more than once. Don't need a machine to tell me my tires going flat.
@@riddlerrides I guess that's what you get when you have a new state-of-the-art Harley. My Sportster my Airhead Beamers my collection of British bikes now everything I have it's not hard to get to nothing. Frankly I don't understand why people just don't buy a motor from S&S either a vintage motor like a flat or knuckle or a pan or a modern motor like an evolution at build a bike around that motor you can pick and choose sheet metal you want pretty nice belt primary and final drive on it what kind of Wheels you want what kind of shit you want without having to pay for a bunch of bulshit government pollution regulations as well as for crappy original equipment that you're going to spend a fortune to replace anyway. I have four hundred thousand miles on my 99 Sportster 883 on original engine untouched except for the little bearing that goes out in the clutch every 50 to 60 thousand miles but the clutch and primary are all original as well. Ironically I bought the bike so when I would need to have engine service done I would have a plethora of choices. It runs good drives good and is now on its 37th back tire. I am so glad the Chinese are coming out with an evolution Sportster they are going to rub their success with it in Harley's face. It is going to be cheaper than Harley-Davidson fake 350 Chinese motorcycle which is going to be more than either a Stormbreaker or a Royal Enfield interceptor I'm twice as much as a Royal Enfield 350 meteor. I want whatever they're smoking it must be some good shit man.
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 I respect your mechanical talent. I have more work to do but I love putting effort into doing as much as I can on my own. My real point is that for the cost of what their charging, the features I mentioned would be reasonable. I totally agree that a Royal Einfield is a compelling machine for what they’re charging. I keep looking at the prospect of picking one up.
One other thing, I’ll admit I dig tech. I work within an ecosystem of leading edge tech, so I’m sure that alters my perspective.
The nightster s has special 70s styling. The wheel and tire combo alone is 1000+ dollar upgrade, and you only pay a little over a thousand dollars for the upgrads. The new tank,paint and wheels. You can hate all you want,but put a Harley next to bmw,honda ,and the other bikes , Harley just smokes them. Everybody was bitching Harley should do this and that. They did it and your still fuckin complaining. Take it or leave it,or stick to your plastic bikes.
I've always believed the harleys were the most overpriced hunks of metal, nothing special. I'd take an Indian challenger dark horse or Japanese bike anyday like an M109r.
My big question is why does harley davidson charge so much for bikes that are inferior to others, is it the name? History? I truly don't understand it. I feel for the guys that buy these bikes and think they have a better bike than everyone else. Harleys are also known for unreliability, I wouldn't spend thousands fir that just to ride around with a name.
My brother recently bought a harley and after 1800 miles started smoking, very dissapointing.
Ok thanks joe biden
Lol 😆 🤣 😂I hear you this might be the year they will file another bankruptcy.
In all honestly, I hope they can figure out how to succeed and attract more American buyers to the segment. We need more riders in the motorcycle community and I like seeing great American companies do well.
HD just refuses to make bikes people would buy at prices that are competitive with the competition. The Road glide race bike will never be made, its a great idea. They should have put lights on the XR750 but never sold it for the street. Ducati sells lots of Scramblers. HD should have had one on the market a decade ago. They would have sold millions when Evel Knievel filling stadiums and selling toys. What is the worst part of this is that HD has the ability to do any of these things. They simply refuse. Its one of the worst run companies on the planet. Bronx anyone?
Lmao.....Breakout is a modern Chopper design. It really made to go straight not like a sportbike. More of a drag bike. With the new 117, the breakout is a perfect chopper from the factory with massive torque and yes with 21 inch front wheel. Again, it is design as a modern chopper. Have you seen a real chopper with 17 inch wheel? Although, I ride my breakout like a sportbike, because it is capable of it if you know how to ride professionally and used to race before. I just think criticizing something you have no knowlege or actual experience on something will make sense on most owners out there. To some maybe, but most motorcycle owners know the truth. Harley has a lot of models for customers, it's not a one size fits all. You pick what fits you and what belongs to your travel lifestyle. My Street Glide ST has 117 with performance cams from the factory just like the CVO. That's 126 ft. Lb. of torque my friend. Coming from sportbikes, trust me 126 ft. Lb. of torque is massive. Harley ain't about Horsepower, it's all about the torque. Now with ABS, Cruise control, adjustable shocks, Navigation system, traction control ETC, ECM, RDRS, bluetooth, brembo brakes and all the full tilt booggie.....that sounds like a great bike to me. On top of that , a better paint job like you are not a big fan of and wayyyyy better after market parts and accessories availability. Like I said before, only two brands worth owning here in America. Harley and Jeep Wranglers, due to its customers loyalty , owners group decade after decade, the spirit of american freedom that exists only with these brands....so regardless on how negative you feel about it, either you're an AMERICAN or AMERICAN'T. The culture is already sealed.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I respect your perspective and appreciate your participation.
After 24 years and counting in the military I think I have good idea of what AmeriCan is. I also understand the weakness of unquestioned conformity.
I mention in the video that I like the way the Breakout looks - just not a fan of 21” street wheels. Even drag bikes have approximately 18” wheels.
Your assertion that Harley has a lot of choices is interesting since I think we both agree that more choices are great. The problem is that Harley has been systematically reducing choices, models and options while raising prices. I’d love to see them come out with more options to include more performance focused bikes. They’re getting closer now that the King of the Baggers is starting to influence new models starting with your ST - I love the STs.
To be honest all the technology can be a great thing! It can be excessive as well as distracting and expensive to fix when it goes wrong. I agree that Harley is killing itself and may fade into history. The bikes have become bulky oversized mammoths, and unaffordable. I went back in time and bought a 93 Springer with its Evo motor and 5 speed trans! No gadgets or technology, just good clean simple stuff!
If you went back in time why did you come back?
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 👈🏻Funny Guy
Harley Davidson: the perfect bike for middle-aged men that don’t know shit about bikes and need the approval of other middle-aged men to feel any self worth. Leather pirates.