How To Get The Benny Greb Floor Tom Sound
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2024
- I've always loved Benny Greb's drum sounds and wanted to put together some clues to try and replicate the fat, low, floor tom sound he often goes for.
If you like the video, or have any other ideas/thoughts, let me know in the comments!
Some gear:
DW Jazz Series mahogany drums
Aquarian Modern Vintage heads
Meinl Byzance cymbals
Ludwig Black Beauty snare
Coles 4038 OHs
AKG 414 rooms
Shure SM7 (floor tom close mic)
Thanks for watching!
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Little follow up: I was a little unsure about using this tuning live, but I just played a show with the floor tuned exactly as it was here and got nothing but compliments from the sound guy - so it works!
I am having trouble getting that sonic boom resonation from my floor tom, it just goes on too long.BOOM ,Riiiiing.
@@markdemell3717 Is the long tone pure, or does it turn into a growl?
@@ColeParamore Pure ,no growl .
@@markdemell3717 If that's the case slap some gaff on the bottom head or add a few cotton balls inside the drum, resting on the bottom head. Good luck!
@@ColeParamore I did that and then some ,I found the source of the problem ,the edge was not level ,I put a light to it and there was a fair gap ,about 1 mm ,I sanded it down and now it sounds heavy and deep,I did put back in the cotton of course but ,no need for the tape ,I also tuned it lower ,deeper ,tight on the bottom and fairly loose on top. Thanks for taking the time to help me ,take care .
As a fellow floor tom sound obsessed person I want to thank you for this video.
Thank you for sharing this! I’ve always enjoyed discovering new ways change the sounds of my toms and floor toms.
Love his floor tom sound. Gonna try this!
Benny Greb is legendary! I still remember seeing his clinic like 10 years ago at Donn Bennett. I think he was playing a Sonor Force 3007 or something and the sound was insanity. I'm sure his touch played a big part, but I always wondered if he tuned/processed the sound before the clinic. But I'm so glad to see a video on his floor tom, it's the holy grail of floor tom sounds!
Sounds like a party to me. No seriously, thats awesome... Thanks for sharing!
Sounds great! Good tutorial as well!
I put CS black dots on and made some damper rings from old clear heads (coated might work too - they’ll separate layers when you cut them up) and they get a really nice thud.
Very cool! Good tips, Great playing!
Sounds like magic dude!
Nailed it! Thank you for taking the time to post this technique.
Thanks for watching!
Cole! I don't know why I haven't seen this before. This is an absolutely exceptional description and demonstration, my friend. Seriously great.
Glad it helped Ron!
That sounds amazing and now I have the answer to my question!!!! Thank you for the lesson and video. 😊
Glad it helped!
Well done sir! And I can definitely here the Benny inspo in your playing 👏
Thanks Colin!
Awesome video thanks for all the tips ! Tried a lot of stuff for my 16" but I'm definitely going to try this !
Good luck!
Great job man!
Really great video. Drums sound great and your playing is killlllla!
Thanks Jake, much appreciated!
The tuning works 👍 I didn’t have any cotton balls and didn’t feel like taping my bottom hand so I just used one sock and it actually worked pretty well
Ha, that's awesome!
Cole Paramore your awesomely smart and creative and thanks for all your great content. I love all the snare drums your dad made for you. 😊❤ happy drumming cole.
Thanks Van, much appreciated!
sounds goddamn good
Thx for the video.. I made the change & she's sounding quite niceeee!!
Glad it helped!
This sounds awesome
Thanks!
I remember watching something where Benny mentioned putting a paper towel inside his floor tom to rest on the bottom head. Maybe he developed the cotton ball trick after the paper towel one? Cause the cotton ball trick sounds like a better idea to me. Since you'll get some resonance on the bottom head and then the cotton will fall back down and dampen it and shorten the sustain a bit. Which, to me, just sounds like a more evolved version of the paper towel thing that I had heard several years ago.
I use black dots as resonant heads. Little unconventional but I like that it keeps the floor tom more under control.
Ah yeah I'll bet that works quite well!
Nice playing.
Thanks so much Chris!
Kit sounds amazing man! I love the snare, omg perfect! What heads top and bottom are you using on your kit and wires on the snare?
Can you please do a video on your take on Benny’s 10 tom tuning.
I would if I had a 10" tom, ha!
Nice playing
Much appreciated!
cool!
My Tom sounds like I'm hitting a piece of paper
I think I got close to this tone with a uv1 coated top and a reso7 coated reso. I think the coated top and bottom is a big part of Benny’s sound.
Agreed!
What shape of bearing edge? What heads top and bottom?😊
what is the music that's playing in the background?
This was super interesting to watch. I think a lot of people get too scared to play around with the resonant side head. Really cool trick! Keep it, have great week 🤘🏻
Glad it was helpful!
sounds really good - you succeeded! FYI - benny uses a remo coated ambassador on the bottom, and a remo coated emperor on the top of his toms.
Thanks Ed! My understanding is that he'll switch between Emperors and Ambassadors for the top, and that the coated Amb bottom head isn't a hard rule.
@@ColeParamore here's where he talks about it... czcams.com/video/LlPTqYmov0M/video.html
@@edkriegedrumming Yeah I've seen that one. He speaks more in depth in one of his DVDs, either Language of Drumming or Art and Science of Groove and mentions his variations.
Cole, I'm close here on my sound but I'm chasing a growl. I like the sound I'm getting but I'm using an Evans E ring to control. I did some unconventional gating in the drum as cotton balls weren't handy but it seems to have worked. I also used a little Gaff tape on the bottom which helped. If I could get rid of the E ring I would be happy. Also, I'm considering the 8" crasher hi-hats but wanted your thoughts on those. Your channel is a hidden gem. Thanks
Thanks for the kind words Chris! Yeah at those low tunings the chances of having that growl are greater. Could be top or bottom head and just the tiniest bit of tension that's needed even on a single lug. Another commenter suggested trying a bit of gaff in the center of the reso head, so maybe give that a try. Crasher hats short review: very cool sound, fun to play, super expensive. If money isn't an object definitely go for it, they're super cool. Otherwise you can always have the adventure of making your own custom stack. Cheers!
@@ColeParamore Thanks Cole. I'll try that, that line is a fine line with regards to adjustment. I have purchased enough splashes now that I should have just bought the Crashers! Bahahahaha! Benny's brain works better than most, I should have trusted the source. First world problems right?
@@ColeParamore I find tape in the middle of skins just kills the tone and sustain. On the outside is ideal for overtones. Do what the Drum Doctor does and loop the gaff tape back around on itself forming a circle. 2 or 3 on the top and bottom heads. GOAT.
Great stuff! What were your eq and compression settings? if you don't mind me asking:)
Thanks! On which mic?
Yes haha. Prob the close mic in the floor and the OH maybe?
Coated Ambassador over coated Emperor 👌
Emperor as reso head??
@@ekkoflok yep, questioned him about it at a drum clinic. I tried it and it works really well.
@@FPSLibrarian thanks for the tip ! Gonna try that for sure :)
I saw a guy once who had Pinstripes on batter and reso. I thought it was weird but in the mix he had great tom tone. Never tried it
myself mind you. But I guess the principle is similar in some ways...a dampened reso side.
What depth is the floor Tom ? Also is it the jazz series with maple,cherry, or mahagony?
14x16 (14" depth) Jazz Series Mahogany. Thanks for watching!
Which Meinl cymbal sizes & specs are you using for the crashes & hihats ? Great video, sound & tips! 🔥
That is a 16" Extra Dry thin crash over a 16" Traditional medium thin crash. Thanks for watching!
@@ColeParamore Thank you! Are they the Benny Greb byzance vintage sand series?
Also what hihats & ride cymbal are you using?
@@kevinfigs Oh sorry I didn't fully read your question. What I listed are the hi hats. Ride is the 22" Sand crash-ride. Crash is the 18" Sand Thin crash.
@@ColeParamore Ahh okay thank you! They sound great 👌🏼
I find it funny when I hear people talking about "his" or "her" cotton ball trick, like it's a new thing or something....I first learned it around 1993 or so from a drummer who had been using it for decades before that! LOL
mgdrummer78 for sure, though who can ever really know where these originate? Usually easiest for me to just credit wherever I heard it from without always stipulating that they probably got it from somewhere else, that usually goes without saying. Thanks for watching!
Wow!! What mics you use?
Hi John, you can check 'em out in the description. Thanks!
Is he using a single ply or double ply head?
Me or Benny?
Something a little phasey happening with the mics...the overheads I think.
Dampening the reso head is the key. It brings out the low fundamental. The guys over at 'Sounds Like A Drum' recently did a video on it. Also you don't have to go so low and flappy. The reso dampening is about 80% of the tone.
Thanks for the comment! You may be clueing into just how small/dead the room is - that may come across as phasing. You certainly don't have to go low on the bottom head but I think it'll not only give you that 20%, but will give you the appropriate feel as well. Remember that most of the perceived pitch will actually be coming from that bottom head.
@@ColeParamore "You may be clueing into just how small/dead the room is - that may come across as phasing."
No. Actually, when I got home and listened on my studio monitors, the problem went away. So I pulled out my phone and listened again. And there it was. I think it might have something to do with collapsing the signal to mono on my phone speaker. *shrug*
"You certainly don't have to go low on the bottom head but I think it'll not only give you that 20%, but will give you the appropriate feel as well."
Don't get me wrong. I'm not averse to low tuning if I can get the tone I'm chasing. But unless I misunderstood, you aren't just talking about the reso head but tuning BOTH heads just above wrinkle, which is pretty flappy. To my ears, it puts the floor tom in kick drum territory tone-wise. But YMMV.
Also, check out the video I referenced above. He makes a pretty strong case for using the gaffer tape in the center of the head.
czcams.com/video/9AgT73otwxw/video.html
@@MeTuLHeD Ah, if you're referencing on a phone that's likely the issue, ha. Sum them on your monitors and I think you won't find whatever issue you're hearing. Obviously an asymmetrical drum set can never be perfectly phase coherent but I can assure you they're as aligned as you would find on any record.
As far as the floor tom being close to a kick, you're spot on there. That is closer to what I think a lot of people think of as the Benny floor tom sound. Love the Sounds Like a Drum videos, and I think combined with the low tuning their trick would absolutely get you in the same territory. I just know that Benny's actual method is the cottonballs, but it doesn't matter much at the end of the day. While their video sounds great, I don't think it's closer to the sound I'm describing. Part of it is that they aren't close micing of course, but that's also part of my explanation.
Appreciate the thoughts and comments!
It’s close but not exact!! Try loosening the 3 & 9 o’clock rods where they just sit flush on the rim.
Isn't it quieter now?
does seem like it
Off topic but what hi hat are you using here?
14" Meinl Byzance Sand Hats
@@ColeParamore thanks! Have you compared those with the 14 dark hats by any chance? Any insights?
@@davegarciaofficial I have. They're similar but the Darks I always felt were mislabeled. They tend to be fairly heavy and not terribly dark. The Sand Hats are a little more palatable to my ears - less clangy if that makes any sense.
@@ColeParamore that actually is a great description. “Clangy”. I’ve been trying to land on a pair of Meinl hats that are crisp with articulation but can growl a little when open. The darks hats were closest I’ve found. Do you think the sands meet this description or would you recommend something else?
I still use the cotton ball trick its way better to get superior tone control. It dampens the perfect amount.
Using a coated head on the bottom furthers this too
Good call!
Anyone have any tuning tips for someone who literally can't put a resonant head of their floor and rack toms?
Explanation: I can't afford a brand new, or even used, kit right now, but I was recently gifted an old used kit. The only real problem I have with it is that the person who had it before me, for whatever reason, thought it'd be a good idea to straight up cut the bottom of the toms off so that their couldn't even be the possibility of using a resonant head on them... -_- Clearly, they didn't know a whole lot about drums lol. So I'm trying to work with what I've got and make my toms sound as good as possible without any bottom heads. I love Benny's sound so much. His snare, toms, and cymbals all sound absolutely perfect for my style of playing. I used to actually own his sand ride before I went off the deep end and sold it and all my other expensive meinl byzance cymbals and all my other drums and parts, just everything. But anyway... it was hands down the best ride, and best cymbal in general, that I've ever had the pleasure of playing and owning. Hopefully one day I can get a new one and start building up a new kit with some actual quality.
But yeah, please let me know if you think you have any tips for getting something closer to Benny's floor/rack tom sound on toms without resonant heads! It may just be impossible though. If so, any tuning tips at all would be much appreciated! :)
Hey Taylor - remember that the mic and mixing is a huge part of the sound. In your case without bottom heads I'd try micing from the inside and working on your mix first. An Emperor or coated Ambassador will probably get you the closest to his sound under the mic, but if you want it to have that super low effect in the room you might try an EMAD tom head. Also bear in mind the actual room itself will make a massive difference in how you perceive the sound. Hope that helps!
@@ColeParamore Hey, man! I appreciate the advice! I guess I probably should've mentioned that I'm not mic-ing my drums right now though. It's not really the kind of kit I'd being playing for anyone else to see or hear quality-wise. I don't even own drum mics anymore. I assumeost drummers don't. Honestly, a lot of drummers are probably lucky to even have a kit to play on with how expensive all the (cow)bells and whistles can get, lol.. But yeah, that's why I was asking mainly how I can tune my drums to get a better sound, but I'll look into those heads you mentioned for sure!
Thanks again! :)
He's using a Sonor Sq2 bro common now😂
What’s your point?
yeah, like hitting a pot roast
😂
Proudly the 666th like
😂
Very nice mic'd...but why does it sound like Crap with out mics..good job
Depending on the room, there can be an inherent compromise between what you hear from any given position in the room and what the mic hears. Very much context dependent though.
Pigs are awesome. They take trash, and make bacon! 😅😊
Cotton Balls, Newspaper strips, all were around from the 60's. These kids think they invented gold.
Is Benny the "kid" you're referring to?
This video is 7 mins long. The presenter talks for the first 4mins 20secs; does not mention heads, doesn't mention eq settings etc, we don't see a drum key being turned once! The sound is good for sure but the sound was good on BG's original video too!
Hi Eric. I apologize that the video wasn't formatted to your liking. I know 7 minutes can be a long time to watch something. The intention was to explain the way to get the sound in the first 4 minutes, then present the result. EQ and heads aren't mentioned because they're not as important in my mind as the elements I mentioned. I'd be happy to answer any follow up questions you felt went unaddressed. Thanks for watching!
@@ColeParamore hello, what heads did you use? Thanks
@@TheKiddOnDrums Aquarian Modern Vintage. Thanks for watching!
Sounds little too dead for my taste. Maybe just two cotton balls would be good for me and my sound.
The cotton ball thing is terrible. 🤢
How so?
Your using top quality shells. I have a hybrid shelled drum kit, basswood, poplar, maple ,so to take some of the sustain out of my floor tom, I use a Rem0's muffle ring , but can still tune it low to getting that really deep tone.
So it does sound amazing but at the same time. Your almost taking all the life out of a drum.
So i don’t understand why you would want that your Drum has no voice
Thanks for your comment Steven. It’s interesting that you say it sounds amazing, then question why you would do it. Could you elaborate?
@@ColeParamore 😂 it’s funny when you put it like that. I’m not sure. I guess that’s my constant struggle. Some part of me loves that lowest fundamental note sometimes I love that wide-open gretsch sound. It’s like half of me says oh that sounds amazing and the other half says, but it doesn’t sing at all. I think I need a support group.