Charter sailing - when things go bad
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2014
- Surprise storm on May 29th, 2014 off the coast of Santorini with 70 knot winds. We knew there were winds that day but it was not forecasted to be this high. There were two other sailboats around us, all headed for protection of a nearby island. It made it especially difficult as our roller furling kept jamming several days prior.
- Sport
This is an important document for aspiring sailors. It’s hard to find videos of events unfolding because people usually don’t have the calm to document it. Highly educational. Thanks for posting!
I could not agree with you more.
glad to m ake it 325th like
.. Quickly goes wrong.. Respect the seas
Agreed. The foresail furling jamming is more common than uncommon. This is a good lesson. Under stress and even higher stress causes the ballbearings to compress within the channel that it rolls in. Other option is hank on jibs, however other dangers lurk. Must go to foredeck to douse sail, getting wet & danger of falling over board. Scary it is to go sailing and yet thrilling. Lots of cold thought and calculation before, during & after the cruising journey. Forecast always surprise. Thanks to camera person. I too have had forcast light variable winds and then within an hour forcast changed to 20 knots with higher gusts. wtf. This my friends is the adventure of riding the wild Neptune's Domaine.
No life lines, no life jackets, cowboys without any experience. The Med is not a lake. Seeing this you deserve a penalty for incompetence!!!!
Lots to learn from here:
1) When things get sketchy, all non-essential crew should be ordered below by the captain. An MOB in this situation would have been fatal, and a crowded cockpit is impossible to manage. In this situation two crew were needed on deck - a helmsman, and someone to sort out the headsail.
2) Never use a winch to force a roller-furler. You need to ease the sheets and head into the wind to take pressure off the sail and gear. Use your engine if necessary, but get the bow into the wind before attempting to furl - that's basic seamanship 101.
3) Try letting the sail out a bit if it jams. Sometimes this will fix the problem, and you'll be able to roll it again.
4) If all else fails, CAST OFF BOTH SHEETS. This will take all pressure off the sail, and it will flap parallel to the wind. The boat will right itself, and you can either motor in circles to furl the sail, or let it flog until it shreds. Either way, the boat will be back under control.
I don't have a problem with the late PAN PAN call - You were occupied trying to get the boat under control, and the situation, while scary, wasn't dire. The lesson here is never put to sea in high winds if you can avoid it. You were reefed down to the bare minimum from the start, leaving you few options if the wind kicked up even more, which it did. You said you'd had problems with the headsail furling system from the start. Never put to sea period if critical boat systems are suspect. The prudent course of action here would have been to stay in port, assuming adequate shelter. Failing that, keep the dodgy genoa furrled and motorsail under reefed main only. Good seamanship starts by knowing the limits of your boat, yourself, and your crew, and respecting those limits. The sea does not suffer fools gladly, and shit can get real at any time.
Why didn't anyone try to fix the sail? I'm curious (I know nothing)
Or cut it off completely.
Thats one of the few good answers here! The video shows poorest preparation, beginning from crew-cloths to missing safety equipment! I doubt the 70kts a bit though. And it looks like they headed directly into the storm... little meterological knowledge is a main cause gor many problems....
All great bits of advice.. Well Put Mr. Woods
Well said Mr Woods..some wise words.
An old sailors' maxim: "If you even think it might be time to change the sails, it is time to change the sails". If you're wrong, you can always change them back. If your instincts or fears are correct, you've set yourself up for safety and success and peace of mind.
Good nail-biting video!
It takes courage to share mistakes. That was one of the best sailing videos I have seen. Thank you!
Yes! Lack of experience, but there is something they did do right, and that was not losing the calm! They grabbed life jackets and kept it cool!
@@evaguarneri8081 It could have gone terible wrong.
a lot of mistakes and good luck too
@@charonstyxferryman like that
Excellent video. Sailing is never as idyllic as you think, There are always elements of danger.
Once again a fine boat design saves the day against a little weather, inexperience, and poor (no) planning. Thanks for the vid...it may save a future sailor.
How do you know what design it is? And how exactly did it save them? The "fine boat design" keeled like crazy without a single working sail.
@@Maloy7800Boat managed weather conditions just fine. Heeling over is natural, key value is capability to get upright, which it did.
Such charterboat isn't designed in RuZZia.. 😉
@@OmmerSyssel Heeling is natural when the sails are up. Boats are not supposed to heel with no sails. It is quite obvious wind got under the hull and almost succeesed to flip it. Hardly a "fine" design.
Maloy7800 really ,in 70 knots of wind. Not supposed to heal over whitout sails? In that kind of weather you are healing over just by the surface of your mast. We call it rig sailing. Never been out in 70 knots of wind, but tried to sail for norway to shetland in 45-50 knots, it was not a level ride i can tell you.
Thanks for sharing. It takes courage to share bad experiences but that is how we all learn and grow.
Agree, not partially but entirely!
I don't think is about courage in sharing your bad experience because learning is a positive action not a negative one. It is because the situation is at its hardest and people are not at all focused in details and other things they are just trying to save them self at this point with all sails ripped apart like a rag doll
@@notachannel4u just the headsail. the main is safely furled, I think.
Cudos for sharing! Lots of armchair critics here. I'm solo sailor with over 10yrs ocean sailing experience and I must say they did quite a few things right (accidentally or calculated - it doesn't really matter in my books). The main one was not sending anyone to the bow given lack of jack lines and tethers. Pan pan call seems right too (not too early). Main sail was reefed and then successfully furled in. This seemed like a squall to me so no reason to stay in port - just put on life jackets and reef earlier. Also send most of the crew downstairs and only call out to cockpit when help needed - helps skipper to focus on the boat and maintain clear mind without looking after extra bodies in the cockpit. Plus they are safer there. Without tethers cockpit is not the safest place if knockdown is a possibility.
As a Captain you ALWAYS have to think ahead!
When the genoa jammed it was already too late. The difference between 20 and 30 knots is not just 10 knots, its exponential concerning Everything, not to mention 30 to 40 or even worse 40-50knots (here they had winds over 50knots)
I would Not have sent anyone ahead on this boat to try to fix the genoa, they had no safety lines and the crew did not seem experienced enough, in this case its way to risky to send someone upfront to fix things.
In this situation start the engine so you get better steering control and send unnecessary crew down in the cockpit , turn downwind and get the wind behind you, steer and wait it all out!
... there only so much en engin can do.. the real mistake i see here was over depowering. they should have tighten the jib more you can clearly see him single handed bot winch.. someone shoukd hsve been pulling.. this is what cause the jib furl line to unloop from the fulr . the reason it got jammed and it riped us clearly not keeping the jib tight enough when reefing.. the reefing should have been done long before the video started filming... alway keep tge jib as tight as you can when furling is the main lesson to be learn here it will avoid goind thru this shit storm . glad everone is okay and good thing main sail was already reefed when that happenned .. they were riding sideways shiiit
Yep. They look a bit surprised at the whole thing. Also looks like the sail did unfurl before ripping, so im guessing from my comfortable chair they were deer in headlights at that point, as they seem to have gone from sailing to full clench. Good things didnt get worse because it looks like they were out of fight.
I agree with this and all the replies. I'll add that when I'm actively sailing (as opposed to a leisurely sail in light winds) EVERYONE in the cockpit MUST have a PFD on at all times. Even during a leisurely sail I have mine on just in case I need to leave the cockpit for any reason. You never know when things can change. Inflatable PFDs are unobtrusive.
@@mikenb3461 personally i like the foam jackets for longer trips. 1) inflatables are unreliable and also require regular maintenance and 2) the foam pfd doubles as a seat cushion or pillow so its doing a good job even with me just doing whatevs.
@@emptiesterthe foam ones warm surprisingly well too.
Glad to see them getting to a safer area. I would never allow crew or passengers to be on deck without life jackets in that sort of weather. Everyone on deck should be tethered to the boat in rough seas. Chances of recovering a Man overboard are slim to none in conditions like that.
I agree, slim to none.
Reef early.
Nobody on deck without a lifejacket.
Clip on.
@@thosoz3431 absolutely
I grew up on the NC coast, on the waters.. no way I would’ve been on deck without a PFD… not in that.
I added a comment earlier on the need for PFDs at all times but I agree that everyone needed to have a lanyard and be tied off securely here too. Great call.
Some of the crew looked scared from the first few frames of the video. Very sad to watch but sadly not uncommon.
Some impressive displays of bad seamanship here. If I was the skipper of this boat I would consider taking some more tuition and sailing with a more experienced skipper before taking a boat to sea again. For example, why were there untethered crew on the cockpit doing nothing but hanging on while the boat is beam on to the sea? Why did no one attempt to sort the jam with the furler? Why was the boat not put onto a downwind course to stop the genoa flogging itself to death? Why was the pan pan made when the boat was out of danger and not earlier when the situation looked ominous? Why weren't lifejackets put on earlier when conditions can be seen to be deteriorating? (One of the crew even suggests it as he's clearly anxious but no action is taken). Sorry if this all sounds a bit patronising but I wouldn't like to think that a novice sailor would watch this and think that the skipper did a good job.
Even the dinghi wasn't properly fixed... And the man on the rudder didn't even get a life jacket. Luckily nobody was hurt.
No harnesses
From a pile of beginners' mistakes, far the biggest is, no harnesses!
Henry Griffiths my first thought was "I hope someone else knows how to be at the helm because that guy would be toast if he got thrown without a life jacket and tether." my second thought was they should be scudding (carefully) with swells like that. And my final thought was didn't anyone check the weather before leaving shore?
Agreed Henry, And the dingy was flapping about, I would have sent most crew down so they were safe and attempted to unjam the furler
On that same moment I was sailing out of Santorini , just a couple of miles behind you, on a bavaria 50. That was the craziest and completely unexpextec wind Ive ever experience since then.
The old salts who taught me to sail 30 years ago always said: the time to reef is when you think about it. Reef early and continue making lunch or whatever. It is much easier to fix issues on the foredeck in 20kts of wind rather than 30kts.
Reefing only gets you so far in winds like that
Totally agree, you always have to be half an hour ahead in planning sail changes. If you think you need a reef....DO IT THEN
No parachute or sea anchor deployed....?
Absolutely, should have left only diapers showing with their furling system.
Next would be to deploy a sea anchor.
Lost rudder command.
@@jonnenne How about hove-too? I expect a boat like that would hove-too under main only. I have tried it (not under those conditions) when solo sailing a Camper Nicholson 55, which I think would have performed similarly. It was a real simple maneouver, main tight amidships and turn into the wind. She just pointed into the weather and stayed there.
@Crown I would stay home.
Despite the things that you might have done wrong, the main thing you did right. You all stayed relativly cool and didnt start blaming each other or stuff. Congrats for that. You can read here in the coments how people loose their cool just from watching a youtube video.
Thank you for sharing Robert. I hope you can ignore all the vitriol know that you have done a service by sharing your story. Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment. We are all learning.
absolutely right... experience doesn't come while sleeping....
Good judgement comes from mentor and training, not from experience.
I dunno about you but I get all my experience putting all my mate's lives at risk. 🙄
Sorta true, but dont get your "experience" when other people lives are in danger. Do it properly and learn BEFORE attempting stuff.
This is basically the equivalent to an inexperienced teenager getting a liter bike, and riding with no shoes and a pillion. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
There are two ways to learn. Learn from your own mistakes or learn from the mistakes of others. Both give experience but one is less costly.
Hi Robert Diggle, Thank you for sharing the video. Forget all the negative comments below. As a sailor with 40+ years experience ___ I think you guys/gals did a great job under the circumstances with a novice crew, jammed roller furling and 60-70 MPH winds. While your crew may have been novices they all remained fairly calm and shifted their weight to the high side.. Most of the negative comments are from people who have never sailed a vessel on their own or from sailors who never leave the dock when the wind is over 15 MPH.
Robert, I too have over 40 years offshore experience and probably more than 50,000 ocean miles and would like to support what Jane said. Without knowing your crews experience but assuming that you are at best casual sailors, you did exceptionally under extreme conditions that weren't in the brochure when you signed up. Some of the comments being made are absurd and just indicate the inexperience of those commenting. You did ok mate.
I agree.
The forces on the Genoa sheets are enormous. You stayed reasonably calm and tried to work the problem.
You all did well under very scary circumstances.
Thanks for sharing.
@@OHFORPEATSAKES I broached a 43' racing boat under spinnaker once with 30+. Boom in the water. The sail ended up in the water and astern, risking a dismasting. So I decided to release the halyard. Everyone got out of the way and all the lines were cleared up. When I opened the stopper the spinnaker halyard went out of the cockpit up the mast in I think less than a second, so much was the tension. So fast that dust (or salt) came out of the mast. Oh, and it was at night -
The best diagnostician is the pathomorphologist. He has the cadaver and knows what should have been done in the treatment process. My sailing instructor 40 years ago used to say - don't comment- draw conclusions. I've been sailing for longer than I can remember, but I do remember making mistakes that could have been tragic. I know that now, it was fun back then. Now I know what I would do in that situation (looking at the film), but I don't know what I would do if I were exactly there. Let's drink to a happy rescue! Let's meet again at sea!
it's better to be in a pub wanting to go sailing than to be at sea wanting to go to the pub
Sometimes, that pub is far away from where I am.
Guys, this made my pulse go up. We were in the bad storm on Corsica in August 2022. Your video made me remember how brutal it was. At some point the wind is too strong to fight against it with the engine. Heeling over that much feels shit scary although the boat won’t flip. But the danger of falling off is very real. I sent everyone inside who wasn’t required on deck and had them prepare a grab bag. Glad you made it!
You did the right thing, better scared now than sorry later!
When increasing healing with engine on, the rudder will increasingly become a horizontal plate that will push the stern down or up. On a boat I was on recently, the stern was pushed down up to the point water was flowing into the cockpit.
These are the things you dont learn in a two week sailing course. Very brave you filmed that for other sailors👍
Phew, well done and lessens learned. I was hit with similar conditions in the golf of Biscay with a stuck furler and 50+ knots wind for three days. Suffered two knockdowns in the first night and didn't dare to wish seeing my wife again. I know exactly how you felt and your video had my blood pumping again. These thing can happen to anyone, even when well prepared. Luckily most boats are much stronger than its crew so you'll hold out till the end and use the experience gained for the next trips. And.. don't forget to tell the tell in the pub! Happy sailing!
Thing is NOBODY will believe them in the pub ....
Like saying you came down a black ski run when you're only a beginner.
NOBODY will believe you.
Never liked furling sails on yachts because they always jam unless you take them to pieces every week to clean them and who on earth does that ...
Letting go of the sheet would have been an idea and running with the wind is the only thing you can do unless you are sure you can get to a safe haven.
The guy at the helm looked as calm as ever even though he was doing sweet fanny adams apart from keeping the rudder straight ... Looked as if he was totally under control ... but the boat wasn't manoeuvreable for quite a while there.
Good to see them all back safe.
This is a character boat, not an owner so zip experience and just trying to show off almost went tragic
Really, it's hard to find a better movie to show that it's not always colorful at sea. A great lesson for all beginner sea sailors. Also for me. Thank you.
I agree with Peterandsberg comment. We all have to learn form our experienced sailing and or captains but we never know when the wild beast seas stress us until we personally are out there and learn from your own experience after reading or learning from others. Great video. You guys did well with less experience crews. Thanks for posting for us all to see and learn from. Jim Rodgers
Of course, there are some mistakes, especially not being attached with lifebelts. But that is how things are going sometimes during a revreational sail with not especially trained crew. But it is really great that you posted this video, so others can learn from it, and they do for sure as the video is really impressive! Well done on that!
Markus Burock exactly. This looked like a classic situation really. There would have been some soul searching after this so it's awesome they put it up on yt.
Thanks for sharing Robert, really useful for all potential charter skippers in Greece to see how quickly things can unfold. It was also useful to read the comments, also very easy to critique from the armchair.
I can't understand why the sails weren't reefed and the dinghy lashed down long before this weather hit. So much wrong here. Incredibly lucky nobody got hurt.
Sailboat in storm seemed fine. I have sailboat and in storms i just go below, except in huge waves a sailboat can't sink or stay tipped. Running into shore is the risk and why sometimes gotta stay up and steer. Dumb is thinking 4 people weighing 600 pounds will help tilt a 20000 pound boat.... Storm suck, but boats are made for worse... My mistake is leaving sails up or anchor unsecured on bow and then storm hits and too damn late, these people were fine in million dollar boat in medium wind and quite small waves...
For the headsail there was not enough furling line spooled on the furler to bring the headsail in. Very fortunate no one went over the side, retrieval would have been very difficult.
@@charonstyxferrymanwhen a sailboat is over that far, even if you are all sat over the rails you are still relatively close to being above the axis of rotation in the plane and all the weight wouldn’t do much at all, it’s useful to stop it from heeling too much in the first place when the boat is relatively flat but once it gets to that point like it does in the video it does very little, strapping down the tender probably would’ve done more in these winds
No reason call « pan pan » . Éléphants 😂
Medium wind? 50kts is medium?
Let me guess its not a both unless its category 4 hurricane or bigger?
Even class A ocean vessels are only rated to 48kts
Thank you for publishing this video, it is extremely valuable to learn from. Especially how the storm builds. All is good and fun, then a bit exiting, then suddenly the moment of decision have passed and you feel at mercy of nature. There seems to be both lack of experience and social mechanics at play here, common in so many different accidents. I'm glad all went well and that you have the wisdom to put up this video for others to see. Too many stories and videos are about heroes, but you rarely get to see it raw like this. I hope you or your crew didn't get scared off sailing! All the best.
- Also a lot of people here arrogantly pointing out mistakes. The thing about sailing is that you can read about it in books, but reality creeps up on you really fast if you don't have experience. How powerful and relentless the wind can become is something no book can truly teach you. At what windspeed does that exact jammed foresail become unmanagable? How calm and brave is your crew really? How calm and _decisive_ will you as the captain be? This captain learned a lesson about limits now, and he's all the better for it. Good luck next time!
I feel that by filming and sharing this, learning moments are not just lost on the few.
I appreciate your honesty showing this video which may have ended up in a total disaster, I would indeed appreciate a professional and seasoned skipper analyzing it and bringing up the mistakes made the skipper and also what was properly done to save the onboard lifes. It is easy to identify mistakes however I was not there and I am not a professional sailor, I would indeed love one commenting on a constructive way
Very happy that everyone was ok. Your video had taught me to respect the sport for sailing.
Hi Robert, thanks for sharing this film. all of us, "sunday skipper" can learn "how things can go worse".
I'm sorry that so many people here insult you.
We all don't know all the details about your situation & what happens at the beginning of the day.
as I can see it was not easy for you guys, and you had a lot of bad luck... notwithstanding....
you had also a lot of good luck.
your responsibility for the life always goes first
also in this situation you can't manage MOB!
send crew down
HI,
thanks for having the courage to share this moment in time. You "hear" about this kind of stuff and what not to do, or rather what to do and it's hard to relate. I'm happy everyone was ok.
We are new to sailing so this puts things into perspective.
People who share their stories and their mistakes are the best. We should thank them like this, not crucify them like some folks like to. I've sailed a fair bit. I've skippered offshore, overnight races, and I still screw up regularly. When people tell their stories and expose their mistakes we should thank them for letting us learn the 'easy' way.
One of the best rough sailing videos. I’m glad that you guys made it safely.
The heart of a sailboat often outlasts the sailors. Great job by the captain having a blast at the helm. I'd pay em double to run it back next week.
What?
Thanks for sharing, I love to get knowledge from somebody mistakes. It will imprint in my head. Thanks again
I was leaning to the left the whole time watching this video!!! Wow, great sailing and holding out.
I turned the screen and leand to the right.
Perfect example of money>brains. Heeling with starboard rollers like that, life jackets still in the cabin, nothing lashed or reefed, guy didn't even know how to operate the radio. On top of that, the captain didn't even have a harness, meaning if he got washed over, everybody would be in trouble.
No joke, this guys lucky no one went overboard or worse. All passengers and crew are the responsibility of the captain, never forget it.
Exactly my first thoughts also! Absolute No Go seamanship of the Skipper and his Crew. At 2.30min still no life vests and celebrating a boat Party....just stupid.
I think you guys did a fantastic job of not panicking and staying aware of what was going on and powering through things. Furler jams can be from many reasons and not very predictable. If I was on a charter boat and didn't know exactly why the jam was happening, I would have done the same thing. If you go up to try to fix it, you risk getting hit in the head/face with the sheet, you might end up letting more sail out, or otherwise make the situation worse.
I consider those videos as extremely important. Thank you for sharing this one. You did good !!
Thank you for sharing this! Very calmly handled.
thank you for sharing this amazing footage. Glad no one got hurt.
It's always a good idea to turn on the VHF radio, the storm warning was probably repeated every 30 minutes on 16. These people really had no idea what to do. Thanks for posting it though.
Yes, like others, thank you for sharing; I am glad all hands faired OK, as there could easily have been fatalities. There is no way this green crew could have carried out an MOB, particularly in the worsening sea state. For teaching my crews and aspiring captains, your video is of immense value, and typifies what many in the cruising and charter world know: these companies have no business letting charters set out with such inexperience among virtually all aboard, given the roles they should have been far more familiar with.
Thanks for this video. Everybody can learn something from this video. Sea is bigger than all of us :( :(
Immagine that that sea was once almost boiling as well.
Roller furling… a gift and a curse. Glad y’all made it to post!
YES! thank you for posting, it is good to see the both sides of sailing in good weather and in bad so we can all learn from it.
Only Turks and Greeks know the extent of the "surprises" of the Aegean Sea!
I learned sailing in the Aegean Sea and it was very easy for me to cross the ocean 4 times because the sailor/captain who grew up in the Aegean knows very well what it means to always be foresighted and "sober". Remember, the sea always demands seriousness.
Turks sure 😂 Maybe 3 BMW
In Greece it is very common for people with no sailing experience to go sailing in strong winds, there are always problems with charter boats crashing into boats of experienced sailors, trying to get out of the moorings in strong winds, and just as the bow sticks out or the stern the boat gets out of control and they end up colliding with other boats. This happens every day. Anyone can rent a boat and if they rent it for 3 or 4 days, they go sailing every day, they do not take into account the weather and they want to make the most of the money spent on the rental, and take many photos for instagram. It doesn't just happen in Greece, in Greece it is very exaggerated, but it happens everywhere, in Spain we also see it a lot. Then all those boats that are not even suitable for scrapping, are the ones that are sold to people with few resources to buy new boats, with poorly done repairs. That is why today it is better not to buy this type of boat, and look at old boats that have never been used for charter. Happy photos for instagram to all those who rent boats without having a clue about navigation.
Lots of mistakes, they didn’t know what they were doing, very inexperienced. So sad…
it is obvious from the video that this crew had no idea what they were up against.
Could they have cut the lines and just let the stuck sail flap? So it won’t catch the wind. Then turn on motor and motor with the waves?
No need to cut anything, just let the sheet out and let the sail flog. Note the degree of heel on the boat. The hull itself will have windage but by having the jib sheeted-in they were adding to the heel with no apparent attempt to point into the wind and so ease the pressure on the boat
@@Stone.trucking At those wind speeds the sail flaping still results in significant drag and you loose control of steerage. Even the engine may not be powerful enough to steer the boat into wind. Options are to head downwind if in open water or with some risk let the genoa out and drop the halyard but this is damgerous and would need someone on the foredeck to pull the sail down. With the force on it this may not be possible. It happened to me recently in the solent and I let go the sheets and had enough engine power to circle the boat which wraped the genoa around the forsestay.
Thank you very much for sharing this! Good for me as a beginner as a warning and respect for the sea and storm...
Whow, you really captured the scary moment and it felt like being there on board with you 😩 so glad you made it safe😥
Hi Robert, many thanks for sharing. Glad, that nothing seriously happened with the boat and crew. I used this to discuss with my crew to see what we can learn. A very useful exercise! Always easy to look backwards or to sit on the warm couch instaead being in that situation. ;-)
Thanks Robert for uploading the video. Excellent to learn from. You've gone from about 150 views to 150,000 views in a couple of months!
Thanks for sharing. Must have been an intense experience for your crew.
Also, I hope that after this experience, the captain learned an important lesson and has since taken training and practiced and will take sailing a bit more seriously.
He doesnt know how to sail, but he sure wears that glowes like a pro
😆
Wind was not the problem. Unexperienced crew was all to blame.
The arm chair admiral spoke!
@@GD-ns8wf He's exactly right. I'm guessing that you know little about sailing, and he does.
Not the crew, but the Skipper. Poor decision making (starting by lifejackets to intructions to the crew), no weather check (70Kt cannot arrive from nowhere with our modern technologies), no reading of crew state. People are not good, luckly sailboats are.
@@GiuseppeMazzei91 first, I've watched the vid and it is NOT 70 knts. 70knts is 12 B, this is 7, maybe 8 now I won't claim I'm 100% certain I would do better but I've certainly sailed with skippers that did In simillar conditons. And on North Sea, not Med.
Forgive my naive question as I am just starting to learn about sailing but was the boat heeling over because the genoa was stuck open and not brought in all the way?
Thanks for sharing this, it was really good to watch. I’m glad you’re all safe.
I won’t write what I think you should or shouldn’t have done.
I enjoyed watching the video
Warren
s/y Legend
Thanks for sharing your learning experience. Living through these is how we learn.
"Experts" like these are why I only single hand.
STFU, where did you read “Expert”.?
It reminds me of a 10 force sailing between the sillies islands and ireland : 2-3 days of very frightening conditions.
Thanks for sharing that !
Why would you go out sailing in those conditions? Or did that force 10 come out of the blue?
Force 8 expected + madness of young people (we were all 20 yrs old) + skill overestimation (one of us participated the Olympic games / sailing)
There are a lot of comments that conditions were a bit too rough well before to sail without shoes, lifejackets, and with nothing prepared to hook up to should someone need to go to the bow. No need to repeat that.
But even with that - the "jammed" jib was something that you should have reacted much earlier. First, fire your engine, head to the wind, and get rid of it. If nothing else - wrap it with a line around the forestay. Or cut the sheets, if everything else fails (although you might need them).
I know, easy to say, but there is more in lack of preparation than conditions to blame. And of course, I cannot be sure, and you might have the wind reading, but to me, it looks a solid 40, maybe 50 knots, but far from 70 ... You would not survive side wind and wave at 70, and at moments you were half wind.
The furler got an override in the drum. Good luck getting that out. From then he was pretty screwed but handled it okay. Furlers are the worst most unsafe inventions to come to sailing.
There was a few minutes of opportunity to furl up that sail, it just needed someone to go forward and grab the furler and roll it up manually. But you needed a harness in those conditions. And probably a storm jib.
Was waiting for someone to point that out, from the amount of water being lifted off the wave tops, I’d say 50 tops for sustained winds, at 70-80 like the title claims you get a white-out, so much water being lifted visibility is mostly gone. I’m a lifelong Alaskan commercial fisherman (who sails in off season) in case you wondered how I know this.
Exactly what I was thinking... I have done a lot of solo sailing.. Always be prepared.. I might add, probably bad job checking the weather, and who in the world does not have two saety lines from cockpit to bow, and a decent harness, to be attached to a short line with two safety hooks.
You can't survive 70? Even hove to with barely any sail? Is the only option to just run downwind bare poles in that case?
Thanks for sharing. Learned a lot. Glad everyone’s safe.
Thanks for sharing what looks like a good lesson learned for all involved. Well done for taking that on.
Hi Robert, thanks for sharing this film. all of us, "sunday skipper" can learn "how things can go worse".
I'm sorry that so many people here insult you.
We all don't know all the details about your situation & what happens at the beginning of the day.
as I can see it was not easy for you guys, and you had a lot of bad luck... notwithstanding....
you had also a lot of good luck.
your responsibility for the life always goes first
also
1. in this situation you can't manage MOB! also send crew down
---- --- ---
2. engine on
3. take lifebelt
4. open jib sheet
5. go downwind if possible
5a. or go upwind ...
6. call your best sailor
7. put lifebelt on
8. fix jib,
8a if the jib sheet is jammed,
9. go upwind
-take a rope and tie this above winch and relieve jib sheet
call procedure to go upwind...
.don't forget start to cook tee for the crew
It's great to know you all healthy
greetz
A bunch of us from Seattle, all sailors, chartered a few Baltic 40's back in 1983. We got into the Aegean and blew out the reefed jib, not repairable, and the main had to be re-sewed in the next port of call. Winds at least 55 knots for 20 hours.
"The sail rips off, that's ok", tells everything
Best sailors, ever!
Lol
Well it sure as hell reduces the liability of having sail up in 70 kts !
@@Clickumentary this is in no way 70knts. There may have been 70 knts gusts in the area, but not seen here. For ef's sake 70knts is 12 B. This is 7, maybe 8
@@mancubwwa I can only take them at their word. They should be bare poles at 40 or God forbid 50 knots. That's absurd weather extremes, especially for a charter boat.
Hmmm, many years ago, as a young sailor, I made some (but not all) of the same mistakes. Its terrible to watch, and a reminder of the great responsibility you have as captain on a boat.
Shoult NOT take people out unless the captain has experience. They are lucky no one got hurt.
I had sail jammed in strong winds a couple of times. It demands a quick reaction to go on foredeck and give it a try to unjam it before the situation gets worse. With a vest on and tided up onto lifelines. As I see in the video, there was a chance to do that right at the moment when the sail got jammed. But nobody was up to the task. Thankfully the boat took care of you.
Man, if boats could talk the stories they could tell..
As someone who never sailed I was shocked to see how they were patiently weiting for a miracle instead of doing something to that sail.
Loads of gobshite comments, and loads of sensible constructive advice thankfully. I watched this shouting "get the fuckin head to wind, get all those people out of the gangway". I've done exactly this, in a wind acceleration zone too off Las Galletas.. I wasn't watching what the wind was doing, it got tasty so I told my novice wife to furl the headsail. Going well and then it jammed. I tried it with her motoring into the wind but she didn't really understand what that meant because I'd assumed it was bloody obvious and not shown her / got her to do it... The sail ended up with a 5' long burst in it, but no harm done other than that, a rope burn, a huge dented ego but importantly a lot of learned lessons. Good on you for posting it.
I was yelling that too...head into the wind, turn on the engine...
Nice to share your experience. Good to see what not to do.
Life vests a bit late and no harness !
They knew since several days that the Genoa reefing was not functioning properly and didn't fixe it. And they decided to sail like that with a lot of wind.
Charter capitain not serious at all !
At 3:36 a girl almost stand up outside the cockpit instead of siting. She could have gone overboard (without harness). This is the captain responsibility to tell and teach his clients what to do and not to do.
Near Santorini, my parents and myself also faced strong wind (a bit less), all of us decided to put harness for the first time.
For the first time my mother was sea sick. The helm was so difficult to held that i finished with a arm tendonitis. It was on a Odyssey 31 from Jeanneau. Finally, we also managed to get protected behind an island (IOS island).
People on an other sailboat going up wind were wearing diving masks ! 🙂
Greeting from France
I'm always amazed how many boaters drown while only a simple Life vest would have saved their lives.
Darwinism plays for keeps on the waterways.
You put my words about life vests and harness into print.
The sea has to be very calm, before we take off our life vests.
Another thing. You don't move barefoot on a boat in weather like this. You will slip and slide.
Sailing shoes tied to the feet is the only way.
We have been in bad weather in the Baltic, where our main sail was torn, so I speak from experience.
Wouldnt it have helped (saved sail, and taking out pressure) if they just cut the right rope or both ropes to the genoa?
Or would cutting the rope made it worse, since the genoa could have completly unfurled then?
i ve never sailed,
just wondering, whats best action besides vests and harness, to solve the problem with high winds and inability to put sails in completly...
@@KoldingDenmarkreefing too late?
If you are fighting the rudder, something else is wrong. Fix it!
This is the mediterranean sea. Full of surprises above and ship wrecs below. Glad you were all safe.
Wow. Lots of armchair admirals. Most have never been at sea in those conditions. I've had a stuck furler once, it's not easy to deal with. Thanks for sharing.
Live and learn.
OHFORPEATSAKES Fuck off
And fuck you too.
jokes on you, been there done that. Clam boat, full load, now go out in a 80 knot storm. No i'm not an admiral, just a deck hand, Cappy.
This is incredible, we ran into exactly the same situation just south of Paros a couple of weeks after you did, and made the same mistakes. Tried to furl the Jib heading upwind, furler blocked and the jib ended up ripping, not quite as badly as yours did, we were able to have it sewn back into one piece a day later, and luckily we didn't broach either. Lesson learned, always go downwind before furling the jib, even in lighter winds. However, I must say that not wearing vests and life-belts in these conditions before things start heading south is inexcusable.
Hope you release the jib lines, before tried to furl, as they didn't...
It can be very hard to furl the headsail in strong wind. In my experience its even harder downwind though. I can't furl mine when its under pressure. I think they reefed early, but its unfortunate that they couldn't roll it up further when the wind increased. I can't agree more about the lifejackets. To me its like a seatbelt in the car, please just put it on. I don't care how good a swimmer you are. Safety of the crew first, then the boat. You can buy a new sail.
If you release the lines, there is no pressure...
But in winds like this there is a ton of drag on the sail and strain on the furler. I've tried, and flogging the sail has not worked for me. I've had better success sheeting it loosely and grinding the furling line. I wonder if they could have worked at furling it a little more but its hard to say from the video if you weren't there. It could also be that without the mainsail the forestay is sagging and the furler doesn't want to rotate. More backstay tension might fix that, but who knows. We weren't there.
and they didnt at any time go upwind :-D
Thanks for sharing good chemistry between the crew
Lesson number 1 on the ASA bareboat: a good reefer is an early reefer. But thanks for sharing. It reminds us to never let our guard down 👍
I think that since 2014, wind prediction software evolved and improved... "touch wood"- over the past years i have not been in a situation yet where a 70 kts was not predicted.
Having said that, we were caught with a stuck genoa furling system in (only) 25 kts in Greece last year, and it was NOT a pleasant feeling... 😞
As a tip: as a skipper, I insist for all crew to have quality self-inflatable PFD's (personal floatation devices) with lifelines. As a standard rule, PFD's are put on whenever crew does not feel comfortable, OR for any winds > 20 kts OR whenever we sail during night times.
Nice video thanks for sharing. We can all learn from mistakes. Here are main ones here: 1) Inexperienced sailors should charter with a skipper on board. It will cost a little more but you will all benefit from the instruction and have a much more enjoyable experience. 2) Get a forecast before you go out. 3) All crew should have lifejackets on, always. 4) Reef your sails as soon as the wind increases. Biggest problem here is you didn't reef your jib. Once it rips you have no control over the sail, not to mention the cost of a new sail. 5) As soon as the weather gets bad, if you can, then get to port. Especially if inexperienced. 6) If you can't get to port, then go with the weather. You are sailing hard to weather in this video with too much sail thus causing the boat to massively heel. You never turned downwind, and were almost knocked down. The crew do not weigh anything like enough to level the boat, especially in high winds. Going downwind with the wind off your aft quarter, with a fully reefed sail is the best option. 7) if the vessel still is overpowered then reef all the sails and just motor downwind, steering 30 degrees off the swell.
Well said. These charter companies have a lot to answer for.
Why they never turned down wind is beyond me. Crazy.
With a modern boat like that I would have taken all sails down and as you suggested used the engine. But yeah i would have just used the engine to make sure we were able to avoid any hazards. But yeah lack of experience really showed… while they were nasty conditions they were well within the capability of the boat had it been controlled correctly.
Here goes Cliff Young the Monday morning quarterback!! My responce to couch skippers 1) small boat ,5 people, need privacy!! 2)they did get a forecast it is clearly explained 3) absolute BS, only in your wet dreams, first thing they did when wind picked up !!Proper modern jackets are more the issue here 4) Furler jammed, clearly explained .5) they where trying.. 6) Open to opinion here, they could not furl the jib7) With their jib! at 30 dgr they would have scooped huge water, flooded, killing the engine, nice try !! even if worth case after dismasting.
You had it until “motor downwind”???
It’s a sailboat, sail it. Downwind on bare poles (if searoom) is the answer here.
They were so trying to get on the lee of island they nearly lost the boat…totally negligent.
thanks for sharing, good to be able to learn from a near miss than what so nearly happened. would have had my life jackets on much sooner and tried to fix the furler asap. but well done for keeping a cool head and getting into the lea of the land.
As has been mentioned a thousand times on here, this really is a great video to show you what it is like when a squall comes up quickly, and sometimes they do come up really quickly. My mistake is to always give someone else the helm whilst I calmly fix the part, in this case the furler, because I can't stand it when something is not working properly and ropes are flailing about!
Thank goodness for keels. We'll done for posting, we should post all our videos, good and bad, so they can be discussed and learned from.
Oh I just love being entertained by all the arm chair sailors.
Wow. Thank you for sharing what not to do. Not one person has a PFD on UNTIL the storm starts going bad!
Had these rough windspeed crossing from Norway to Scotland. It was a lovely trip but me and my collegue were better prepared!
Nice vid.
Thanx
Hey Robert, thanks for posting that. Regardless of the criticisms it serves as an important lesson for everyone. So how much did they charge for the Genoa?
lucky you got on cam
same thing happened to me last summer while i was single handed from VA to NYC just before the tip of cape may
about 50 /60 knots of wind out of no where.
i had my Geno out for the day and when wind picked up i did not expected to be that bad ..
in few seconds wind and waves where beyond control and mast touched the water i released the Genoa and boat got back rushed inside to start bildge pump as water got in the cabin
came it and the lines got caught on the propeller .. it was really a disaster
called CG and they came towed me to safety
untangled the lines from the propeller and replaced Genoa with a Jib "Geno broke" and stayed there for the night .
the listen is never over trust the weather and rife as early asap before it is out of control :)
Mohamed Shaheen thanks for sharing your story. I didnt realize it's that easy to catch own rope into a propeller!
I fouled the prop w/ a sheet in a gale years ago when I was starting out and with only one inexperienced crewmember onboard. I learned a lot that day.
Bad seamanship but thank you very much for sharing! It takes some courage to do but we can all learn from this video! Thumps up!
Excellent video. All sailers take note. Trim sails often as conditions change. That crew was fantastic and the captain handled it very well
Pan Pan
Yea, we'll be right out as soon as it stops blowing 70 knots. 😅
I love all the arm chair quarterbacks, yes we would all do things differently, but THANKS for taking and sharing the video.
Took the words out of my mouth. I appreciate any time somebody shares a story like this - next best thing to first-hand experience, which is how we learn. This guy got into a bad situation, probably wished he'd done a thing or two differently but in the end everyone was safe and the boat was still afloat. Worst risks were somebody going overboard or the boat falling onto a lee shore. Lots of comments coming from people who have never gotten in over their heads because they've never left their armchairs.
Thistlework amen!
I’m with you on that. These guys are on holiday on a rented yacht and had the good grace to post this. I have been on an internationally recognised commercial course with a professional skipper and, mostly well qualified crew, in rough conditions where I emerged from the saloon to find everyone incapacitated by seasickness. Except for an 18 year old backpacker who had never been on a boat before that day. He had taken over the helm and was doing a great job unlike the RY@ qualified instructor who was lying in the cockpit very sick.
Magic Aurora you replied to my comment, not on the main thread...
Thanks for posting, learnt a few things
Felicidades!!!! Pasaron la prueba con 10 .saludos desde Montevideo Uruguay 🇺🇾
OMG…😮 haven’t you mind the weather forecast? The crew looks pretty unprepared in this situation…🙈 But anyway cool to share this incident with others. There are many sailors who would never show…👍
Weather forecasts unfortunately do not predicts these squalls - I learned that civil aviation forecasts do , but are not available to the marine world - is this correct ?
I've sailed that exact piece of water give or take 50 times, both upwind and downwind. That weather event was definitely out of the ordinary. That's the type of Squall you'd see in Croatia, the Cyclades are generally more predictable. Yes, this could have been handled better, but some of the comments here show some sad human nature really! I admire the way the skipper stayed calm, and if there is one thing to learn as a skipper when shit gets real it's STAY CALM. Your mood dictates the crew's mood, losing your cool will freak everyone else out and things can go downhill real fast from there. In saying so, a little motor and turning downwind would have completely changed the complexion of this scenario. No flapping, probably saving the sail and a short sail back into the caldera @ 8-12 knots boatspeed. He'll do better next time I'm sure!
Well done ! Take shelter behind the island!
But always be prepared 😮
I was a sailing instructeur and ouer group of students was hit by a real hurricane during the summer of 1997 in Holland
The wind was that strong that large sailing boats where blown flat to the water ( without sails ) .
Its was a mirracle that everyone came in safe ( on a close by lake several people drowned)
Stay safe and keep sailing
Every one needs dry land and a beer! Glad to see y'all got though it safely.
Good documentary of how things can go bad. Never underestimate squalls. I experienced it in 1999 in Greece, fortunately already docked to the pier when it hit. But even then you might not be safe. In this case we where lucky because a crew member dropped the anchor to early and we did not reach the pier by 2m , so we tightened to the pear with the winch in full reverse and the anchor got dug in very good. This and additional ropes to the middle clamp on each side kept the boat from turning to the side when the wind hit from port side. Other yachts got pushed on each others because there anchors where not tight.
Finally we did not have any damage due to this circumstances compared to surrounding boats.
Stay safe and be aware of squalls appearing suddenly. Always watch the weather, Take down sails early, hide behind islands, enjoy sailing.
Experience is to be made to improve
Had suffered from these gale winds while anchored in Epidavros in September. Unfortunately the wind was blowing towards the pier and I've realized too lately that the anchor is weak. And then the wind increased so much that even lampshades on the embarkment had fallen to the ground. It was impossible to reanchor in that conditions so I needed to hold the catamaran using its engines. It went rather good but caused rope entanglement on one of the shafts. Then the diver clears the shaft and we was ready to go. But suddenly one more underwater ropes fixed the catamaran again, and the boat begins to turn port side to fishermen boats with steel bows. Luckily we use fenders to prevent collision and damage of the boat. Some fishermen boat helps with tugging us apart and we was happy to leave Epidavros. So Greece is beautiful but challenging
80 mph wind would test anyone, you were caught out in severe weather on a yacht more suitable to coastal hopping in fine weather or sitting in a marina, despite its size. I am pleased all crew were safe and you brought the yacht to safety. Best regards Bill.
One of the Best sail experience video I have ever watch cause its %100pure reality.
Having lived here in Spain for a few years,i can honestly say that you can expect wind gusts most afternoons in summer and they can be very strong....
Thanks for post it. Every sailor has made mistakes, share it for learn each other. Meltemi is not joke
This happens, when you don't have a clue about sailing and weather forecast. But thanks for sharing the video, it's a good tutorial for would be sailors.
This is an excellent documentation of what can go wrong - thanks for sharing - I have been caught few times with squalls like this , but not 70 knots - can you share what went wrong during furling of the head sail ?
WOW< What a story, what courage, heart, bravery.
Just incredible, Thank You
Don't you mean "what sheer folly and pure luck"?