Repertoire: The BEST Schubert Symphony Cycles
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- čas přidán 29. 10. 2020
- There are an amazing number of very fine Schubert cycles, most of which no one especially cares about. The reason probably stems from the fact that the last two symphonies (the "Unfinished" and the "Great") are so much better known than the first six, and so most conductors stick with just those while ignoring the rest. Still, the fact remains that many conductors have done a terrific job with the whole set. Let me show you who they are.
- Hudba
I love Schubert early symphonies. The 4th is would be my favorite, but I very much enjoy listen to any of 1-6. Very underappreciated pieces.
I'm 100% with you- all of them! 1st and 2nd? incredible- why are they not appreciated? why? fantastic music- I think of all of them equally-
give me Schubert's early Symphonies over all of Brahm's Symphonies any day- ! I know that sounds crazy- but I stand by it
@@bingbongtoysKY Frankly, I agree. Brahms' symphonies never particulary did it for me. I'm not a Brahms guy in general.
listening to no.1 now- what was he 16??? get outta town- and they keep getting better !!! may the Gods bless him❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥
you too!!! thank you King- when Dave asked what 3 composers we could live without- Brahms was one of my choices- I've tried! I have- now I like his violin concerto- this 1st symphony (Schubert's) I'm at the second movement now- you can hear all of the acorns here-!!! all the pure joy!!! and the melancholy, especially from the flute writing- what a blast!!!
I'm an amateur listener. You are fascinating. I could listen to you for hours ❤
Thank you.
Schubert Symphonies are especially near and dear to my heart - ha ! funny to hear you say Karajan did not care for Schubert - that figures ! - anyway I may be the only person on Earth whose favorite symphony by any composer is the Schubert 6th ("the Little") - no rhyme or reason to it except that for some reason i adore every phrase and note of it, giving me me more emotional and spiritual pleasure than any other symphony - as far as Schubert conductors go, you did not mention my favorite, Barenboim ! - c'est la vie! ( Barenboim is my favorite for Schumann as well ) - although i am happy you gave such well deserved praise for Ricardo Muti's Schubert
I've come to this late but have purchased the Blomstedt set so thank you! A consistently excellent set theoughout, with vibrant renditions of the early symphonies and top notch performances of 8 and 9. After the Berglund Sibelius this is the second symphonic boxed set I've chosen with your help and guidance so thanks!
I did too -- but I am building my Blomstedt collection anyway. I attended a great number of his performances when I lived in San Francisco, and had annual subscriptions to his concerts. I thought I may have liked Blomstedt for nostalgic reasons -- I am glad that I am being validated by Dave and other commentators here!
I have the Wolfgang Sawallisch conducted cycle on Philips. I enjoy its liveliness and pacing a lot.
I have to tell you that the sound gag with Bruckner's name and the horses is bloody hysterical. Just like it was in Young Frankenstein each time Cloris Leachman appeared on the screen.
Thank you--my mother suggested it. She's a big Mel Brooks fan. Bruckner...not so much.
I am very grateful to you for recommending the Maag. I have loved my Wand set dearly for many years now, but found myself wanting to hear someone else who, well, wasn’t quite so completely reliable. Maag was my man. The playing is sometimes dire, let’s face it, and Maag himself sometimes miscalculates (e.g. first mvt of 9). But it all has such personality, imagination, conviction. He was a remarkable conductor, and thanks so much for reminding me of the fact.
David-thank you for the Böhm/Staatskapelle Dresden recommendation. Just finished listening it and it was wonderful. The performance really had a great atmosphere from the start and the playing was top notch (apparently it was a farewell concert for him as well). Beautiful Oboe solo in the slow movement too. Thanks again!
Hmm. I feel like I just won the lottery. I ordered your top choice not 30 minute ago (before watching the video) because it was on sale. :-)
I am partial to the Boehm /BPO cycle, but the Kertesz cycle is my favorite because iit is with the VPO. My all time favorite Vienna Philharmonic performance of Schubert is the live Boehm 9th on DVD.
The fifth symphony is a beautiful marvel. It should be added to the symphonic performing repertoire ASAP. Also, the Wand Symphony No.9 is my favorite.
The Fifth is part of the repertoire, everywhere, from community orchestras on up. Everyone does it, and everyone loves it.
an overflow room! ....love it! Schubert Cycles ...dreamy
The first symphony ought to be better known. An irresistible piece , especially the 2nd subject of the 1st movement.
Just listened to Gunter Wand conducting Schubert's second, and damn it's good! Always loved that piece, but this makes the best case for it I've heard. Major league stuff.
I have been singing the praises of the Muti/Vienna cycle for over 20 years. I have Harnoncourt (which I enjoy in the early symphonies), Blomstedt and Wand (both whichh are wonderful), but the Muti is just exciting as hell and I like it that way.
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I bought the Kertész box ages ago and recently found the Blomstedt. Both very enjoyable. I've always had a soft spot for Schubert, for all of his music actually. I guess I'm not alone there.
Una vez terminado con Bruckner, empecé a escuchar este ciclo de sinfonías de Schubert y casi pasó lo mismo con Blomstedt.
"Una ejecución de música muy sabrosa, tan impactante como son las sinfonías de Beethoven"
(Tengo ese ciclo, bajo la interpretación de Harnoncourt y la orquesta de cámara de Europa).
Pero también agregue la 7°, los 2 movimientos restantes de la 8° & la 10° interpretada por Marriner, para compensar. Lo cual no afectó en nada si hablamos del equilibrio del pensamiento musical. (Se sentía muy vacío sin estos)
Para resumir, fue un deleite escuchar al "verdadero primogénito de Beethoven".
Ahora voy por las sinfonías de Beethoven por Wand, y terminar de escuchar esta tetralogía sinfónica.
Muchas gracias por la recomendación.
Karajan is my fav cycle, with the best 9th. Great sound, too. Has all the muscle and guts you miss in the Abbado set. Still a fan of Böhm.
@@kenm.3512 - the idea that a musician of Karajan’s experience and stature would be “guessing at” how any specific piece of music should be performed is laughable...so, thanks for the laugh. 😊
BTW - strange that you say he was guessing in the early symphonies...and then go on to say his 4th is “remarkable” and that you love his take on 1 & 2. That’s half of K’s “guessing” in the early symphonies meeting with your enthusiastic approval. Go figure. 🤔
@@kenm.3512 - I have the Osborne book...in hardcover, no less.
I wish EMI had convinced K to record Sibelius 3.
Cannot agree. His 8th sounded muddy and not sharp, ans his 9th killed all the underlying counterpoint, in my opinion. Too much sauce in the recipe, you cannot taste the delicacies.
@@Rillotinspanish - I couldn’t disagree more. Indeed, it appears we are listening to different recordings. K’s EMI 9th is sharply edged, propulsive and quite exciting. Your assessment reads like received opinion on K, rather than a review of the actual recording.
Excellent overview of the Schubert cycle "problem". A cycle that really doesn't lend itself to one conductor or orchestra. The musical and emotional distance between the 1st and the 9th is so vast. Best quote: "Marriner gives faceless a new name..." Ha! Also, I think the both "mountain" covert arts are paintings of Caspar David Friedrich..
Maybe someone has already mentioned it in the comments, but I have to point out that Sándor Végh has also recorded symphonies 1 through 4, also with the Camerata Salzburg. You can find them on the BMC label.
So there is actually a complete cycle by Sándor Végh! Unfortunately you have to assemble two different sets, the Capriccio and the BMC. But it's definitely one of the absolute best, I don't know what was Brilliant Classics thinking when they picked Roy Goodman. Perhaps they couldn't license the early symphonies by Végh?
Also, I want to mention Hans Zender's cycle with Southwest German Radio on Hänssler. It's really quite good in my opinion, pretty consistent and magnificently recorded.
I have only two complete cycles but you didn't mention either but like them anyway. First is the Suitner/ Staatskapelle Berlin on (DENON) and the second being Sir Charles Groves/English Sinfonia (PICKWICK). Not sure if these are available but there are some lovely music on both sets.
I bought the Karajan EMI Schubert Cycle (reissued in the '00s on four separate cds); sonically, "eh", but I'm partial to the emphasis on strings (PS - the same discs today are practically impossible to find). I find both the Abbado and Marriner recordings pleasing (but I see your points). Bruggen? Not familiar with his cycle, but will definitely seek it out, either online or via Amazon. Bohm! I did not purchase his cycle (though tempted), but glad to hear it's a good one. Your "sleepers" are intriguing (but I might own Mehta's cycle somewhere; Sawallisch? Never would have guessed; I own the Muti cycle [!] - can't wait to revisit it ... but how I hate those hard-to-replace double jewel-boxes). Interesting how no two people own the same 10+ recordings of the Schubert cycle (so many from which to choose). Love the video-review.
Thanks, Dave, for this thoughtful review of Schubert symphony cycles. I agree entirely with your various assessments with one exception, and that is the Maag cycle, originally on Vox. I bought that cycle when it was on LP and found the playing of the Philharmonia Hungaria scrappy and the sonics lacking in clarity. That impression may have been due to the Vox engineering and poor LP pressings, but in any case I disposed of that set and added the Böhm cycle to my collection. I've been satisfied with that set for many years now, though I also enjoy the Muti, which you rightly recommended. One point in favor of Marriner: the Brian Newbould realization of "Symphony no. 10" is quite a revelation. Unlike the surviving sketches for "no. 7," the manuscript for the Tenth was virtually complete in four-hand piano score for the first two movements, with even some directions as to orchestration. Newbould had to "realize" a great deal more in the Third Movement (it's a 3-movement work, after the manner, say, of Mozart's *Prague*). I am not convinced by the realization of that finale, but the first two movements are another story. There are many echoes of the great String Quintet in Movement 1, and in the slow movement Schubert seems to have valuted over Early Romanticism and landed in Burckner/Mahler territory. I would not want to be without the Newbould realization of the Tenth, and for that reason (alone) I have retained the otherwise rather dull Marriner cycle. Any Schubert aficionado reading this who has not heard that realization should endeavor to do so. As I recall a single-disc recording of the Tenth was once available from Hyperion in a performance conducted by Charles Mackerras.
Hungarian independent BMC label released live recordings of the first 4 Schubert symphonies played by Camerata Academica conducted by Végh Sándor on 2 CDs. I think everybody who likes Végh and Schubert shoud have it. I just bought an other live Végh 2 CD released by BMC too. It contains 2 live Camerata Academica concerts at Budapest in the early 90's. It contains Coriolan overture, Haffner Symphony, Drumroll Symphony and the "Great" C major. Both the live Schubert and this album sounds marvellous. Orchestral playing is not always immaculate but considering these are live recordings it is not problem. I started to admire Végh's conducting. That musicality is gorgeous. And not like Széll it seems to me that he liked timpani. :-)
I love your description of Mariner here. What an amazing career. As prolific as he was, as much perfectly competently performed orchestral music as is available in recording under Mariner's baton, it's amazing to me how *little* personality (i.e., as near to none as possible) Mariner managed to reveal to his audience.
I have a friend in Brüggen's orchestra, so tend to have a slightly biased preference, even when my bias is obviously wrong.
No bias is wrong. It's a bias. If you're honest about it, then it can't be wrong.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yeah, I do get that, but that's less funny.
The only complete cycle I have is Davis on RCA which purchase I should have considered better, after your short but eloquent remark. I'll investigate Maag and your top picks. Thank you.
I used to have the individual a bottle recordings and I really enjoyed them. I think I must get the box set. I am looking forward to getting the Wand and the Blomstedt. I think an interesting addition to these 'complete' surveys that you do (at least I would be interested) would be the ones that haven't been put out as a box set that should be ( although, to be fair to you, I would understand if you didn't because you really should be paid for that kind of work and expertise.) best wishes.
Well, check out my "Ideal" videos. They are similar.
I found a video here on youtube of Wolfgang Sawallisch conducting the Vienna Philarmonic in the Schubert Great C Major - 9th. Wow! Is it ever glorious. So incredibly beautiful... and I gotta say, that work never really did much for me until I heard this. I wonder why he did not conduct the VPO more? In any case, I so wish they had released a CD of it. Just blows me away.
I heard the 4th earlier today, which prompted me to watch this vid. BTW, David, I don’t get the “Tragic” either. If one could be titled “Tragic” it would be the 8th, which moves me very much. Anyway, the only Schubert I own are the 9th with Munch and the delicious “Trout” quintet. But I love those earlier Symphonies too. There’s something endearing about them, much like Dvorak’s early ones. I need to get a cycle. I’ll get the one you recommend.
No Suitner? Oooh. And what a dismay about your Kertesz - Brahms disappointment ... one of my favourite cycles! As for the rest, again happy to coincide in most it them! Maybe I am more musically savvy than I believed, I now try to compare with your selections. Harnoncourt’s 4 in this first cycle is one of my favourite. His second cycle with the Berliner Phil ... too weird for me! Thank you for your teachings; greetings from Spain!
No Suitner. Not as good as his Dvorak or Mozart.
Two favourites for me: Sandor Vegh and (not yet completed, three discs out, one missing) Heinz Holliger.
When you said, "they knew their schhh--ubert," my mind had already completed the phrase differently...
As you say the selling point of the Marriner set are the realisations of the various other ‘ unfinished ‘ symphonies - in particular the composer’s wonderful symphonic swan song from the last weeks of his life - symphony no 10 - a must hear surely ?
I adore the Harnoncourt set with the Concertgebouw, but I also have a great fondness for his set with the Berlin Phil, recorded live in the early 2000's, but only released in 2015. As in his Amsterdam set, Harnoncourt is good in the early and late symphonies, and he gets some lovely sounds and colours from the Berliners. As a bonus, the set also contains a couple of well-sung masses and the opera Alfonso and Estrella; why the latter is included God only knows, but it's nice to have this rarity at all, so I'm not complaining.
No Walter? The performance was terrific and the recorded sound was fabulous. I think it was recorded in the ballroom of Brooklyn Height's Saint George Hotel.
I wish Szell had done a complete cycle with Cleveland .....
By the way, @David Hurwitz what do you think of Dohnanyi's Cleveland recordings of Symphonies 8 and 9?
(I found his recent Philharmonia 9th on Signum rather faceless but I haven't heard his Cleveland Schubert recordings so I would love to know if they are worth looking into.)
It is amazing to see how underrated Muti and Blomstedt are.
Thanks for the talk, David. Any thoughts on the Maazel/BRSO Schubert cycle? It's dirt cheap.
...and just plain boring.
I like Abbado's cycle a bit more than you seem to but I may have fallen prey to what I thought was gorgeous cover art on the individual discs.
My absolute favorite recording of the 5th symphony is by Blomstedt and San Francisco. I am surprised the CD still plays.
Going back over some of these older videos, Dave. Taking your recommendations here seriously as I only have Harnoncourt and Abbado in the whole lot (various other singleton performances). But although I enjoy the Harnoncourt, I feel a bit bashed about the head as he really does the central "engine" through emphasising brass and percussion. I think he does this in Beethoven too. So the Abbado may feel a bit "softer" but its a bit of a relief after that, and you can still hear the woodwind beautifully etc. But the reason I'm making the comment is that especially earlier Schubert orchestral things are really infused with Rossini, and its maybe embarrassing to some of the more serious critics that they are, but they are. Its not just a case of the young Schubert being "stuck" in Mozart or whatever, he was totally on trend. And Abbado as you have said, was an excellent Rossini conductor. So this comes through in a good way. I must try the Blomstedt.
NO! My God NO! Don't take them seriously! I agree with you about Rossini--a very shrewd and knowing observation.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Glad you look back at these old things! Yes, the early Schubert symphonies are looked down upon because no-one wants to acknowledge that Rossini was the most celebrated composer in the period 1815-30 or so, and was therefore the "model" to aspire to. Not Beethoven for better or worse.
"snoozefest". that's a good one!
I'm not a big Schubert person, but I do LOVE the Staatskapelle Drseden as they make yummy sounds. I recently started listening to the Schubert cycle with Barenboim/BPO, mostly because it's in the big Barenboim Sony box that I have slowly been making my way through. I liked what I heard in #4 and 5. Could it be there are so many good Schubert cycles because the music is just so darn good?
If you like Staatskapelle Dresden you should hear the CD with Peter Gülke conducting his version of the final symphony fragments (no 10) with SD.
Hi Dave, what is your opinion about Scriabin symphonic works? Do you have some recommendations?
That is not the subject of this video--a topic for another time.
I have four of the cycles you mentioned: Karajan, Bohm, Kertesz, and Wand. The Wand is my preferred cycle of the four, so we agree there. The Bohm is also very good (perhaps even better played than the Wand), but the sound quality is a bit harsh to my ears. The Kertesz is a little more relaxed than I really prefer. Not bad mind you, but I find myself wishing he'd pick up the pace at various points. Karajan does 8 and 9 very well, but to me he seems uninvolved in 1-6 -- as though he's just going through the motions to get the recording sessions over and done (perhaps this is just the power of suggestion from having read Osborne's comments in his biography of Karajan before ever hearing the recordings).
I would would very much like to hear your opinions on Schubert's piano works especially his sonatas. There are so many ways to play his late works...
Sir Charles Groves did a cycle with the English Symphonia but I don't know how widely available it was
Aside from his obvious skills in the opera pit, I think the Viennese 'liking' of Muti has been greatly predicated on his Schubert cycle. They certainly haven't invited Muti to do Bruckner with them, have they.
“Nobody much cares about symphonies 1 through 6” is unfortunate. Those early symphonies are filled with such great music.
When I was young symphony 8 and 9 were all I ever heard about. Thankfully in my university chamber orchestra I got to play a couple of the early symphonies. As an older person now I much prefer them over 8 and 9. In fact, I have never much understood the love for symphony 9. As a violinist my shoulders hurt just listening to it.
No one much cares about how much effort it takes to play the 9th. Hehe.
Actually, the Blomstedt is a photo of a very Caspar David Friedrich-isch landscape
Hi Mr. Hurwitz I have a probably stupid question there are some composers I always go back to that make me happy and Schubert is a main one I have the DG flip box and I listen to it constantly along with pollinis wanderer added in I know these boxes are a mishmash of diff stuff but if there is a better one you can turn me in to I’d love it thank you rock on dude you are my guru
By the way based on your advice I got the igor levit Beethoven sonata box and it is like crack you are making me go broke lol
I think you have a very good selection, but stay turned because I plan to do a lot more Schubert in the near future.
I would love to hear your calls on balls and strikes when it comes to Shubert he is dear to my heart the cello is my favorite instrument and my favorite record maybe of all time is the Shubert cello and piano Sonata with slava and britten go go for it dude!
Well that’s a lie maybe number 3 after quadrophenia and never mind the bollocks
Please review the Kertesz box next time you do a video round-up of box sets that are still in print. Thanks!
Which one?
The Vienna one with the Schubert in it. Although, now that you mention it, you could do the other one at the same time!
I have the Blomstedt/Dresden Staatskappelle. Lately I have been listening to a LOT of Schubert as a result the new release from The Cleveland Orchestra/Welser-Most. I like it. DH..have you heard it and what do you think. With my latest listening,I have really begun to question the huge differences in the playing of the Unfinished/9th and the earlier symphonies. It sounds like two different composers. I am starting to feel that the Unfinished/9th should be played closer in "spirit" to the earlier symphonies. We have seen the Unfinished/9th become to sound like Brahms instead of sounding like Schubert. The Unfinished/9th should sound like Schubert.
Haven't heard the Welser-Most.
My favourite set is a compound one: Végh 1-4 on Bcm and 5-8 on Capriccio.
And by the way I was very underwhelmed by the Abbado 8th despite the hype given to it by many - for me it's a very ordinary and though lyrical is lacking in drama
I agree Muti made a great cycle, but he took all the repeats... The Great Symphony is enough great without them... it is quite exhausting, especially in the scherzo.
I agree. I can't stand the repeats in the scherzo, but as I said, my favorite versions of the 8th and 9th are in none of the complete cycles.
I do not like heavy and elephantine Menuets, thist is why my first choices are Kertesz, Brüggen and Harnoncourt.
Blomstedt is too well educated for this music in my opinion, not peasant enough, not the kind of guy from the countryside (same remark for his Bruckner). ;-)
Don't you like 8th and 9th Schubert's symphonies under the Baton of Charles Mackerras conducting the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment?
Schubert was not from the countryside, and the minuet is an aristocratic dance. As for Mackerras, that is not the subject of this video!
@@DavesClassicalGuide The origin of the Menuet is "aristocratic", for sure, but what Haydn, Mozart, Schubert or Beethoven made of this dance most of the time in their symphonies was not aristocratic at all. The name of the dance remained, not the style of it.
Moreover, the notion of city and countryside is not the same kind of "concept" or reality today or in the early 19th century...
@@Tracotel Nice try.
For sure, Menuets of Händel or C.E.P. Bach sounds exactely the same as the Menuets of Schubert in his symphonies. I thought you had vaguely some stylistical musical notions. :-D