Why Dimensional Shifter Needs to Go Next
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- čas přidán 17. 04. 2024
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The problem with Shifter is that if it's legal, Josh can't resolve Runick Fountain and have his infinite recursion.
Shifter has "Jerome made it" inmunity
What is jerome?
@@janieraltreche1989Jerome mchale
A konami tcg employee
He's the guy in the ashened reveal video
Jerome should be fired. All that he does is completely destroy combo decks and promote unskilled game and card design. Look what he did to pendulums. All the esclusive tcg strategies sucks ass such as ashned , war rock and the pirate thing. They allowed certain cards to remain for long time in the game only for the benefit of control decks such as floodgate like mystic mine. He also doesn't have that much experience in modern yugioh.
Shifter and to a lesser extent Droll are pretty darn toxic because it can shutdown some deck's whole gameplan. Also for those who say "but the graveyard shouldn't be a resource". It has been since the chaos monsters where first introduced.
the gy has been a resource since monster reborn and call of the haunted
SKILL ISSUE
Could you say necrovalley and Dweller needs banned?
The way I usually hear Droll talked about; is it Droll or the format that's toxic?
@@AlleyCatUwUhow many decks add or draw cards?
MAN. the fact yugioh was in such a bad spot when the forbidden droplet dark ruler and shfiter nibiru were printed were mid cards now they are something we think about baning.
Well, same goes for maxx C. Back when it was printed against 90% of the deck it was at most a +0/+1 and they would just set 1-2 traps and pass without risk of instantly losing from that position next turn.
Then the game went nuts on special summons and the card became broken like no tomorrow.
What are you talking about? They all saw play pretty much immediately on release
Shifter, Droll, Maxx C, and Eschatos all have lingering effects that floodgate you even after they're gone. I don't think "opponent can't X til end of turn" is healthy for the game.
Droll is healthy for the game. Thinking otherwise just makes you combo biased.
No, that’s not combo bias. Similarly to maxx c punishing everything, droll also hits stray targets. Marincess is a combo deck, but it still gets killed. It’s not the biggest target, but in a perfect world there wouldn’t be a need
Ban threatening roar
@@xSkwintzah yes, me using small world in my fusion package Earthbound prisoner deck then getting drolled, completely locking my turn because ever play I have adds a card to hand
No, it doesn’t make you combo biased, it makes you “I want to play more than one card per turn” biased
@@samwinter9860tenpai player spotted
From my perspective, the design issue with Shifter is that there's nothing that's stopping the Turn Player from dropping it when you can if their Deck can play around it. It essentially invalidates the game played in the most essential turns of the game by acting as a T0 or T1 floodgate you can open with. However, if Shifter was designed in a way where you can use it while there are 5 or more cards in your opponent's Graveyard, I feel it'd be better balanced because it'd punish more the Decks that revolve around the GY. If there was a Multchummy monster with that effect, I can see Shifter being banned
Under this reasoning would you say that droll also has a design issue ?
@@kekri._.
Oh absolutely Droll is an issue. With how the game has progressed, there's only two states where Droll lands on; either worthless or highly toxic card. And in the formats where it's good, its existence makes even the act of trying to bait an Ash negate something that's a terrible move because then the turn player simply couldn't play the game just for trying to outplay another strong interaction.
@@zerochill4096 i actually feel if shifter had the same condition as droll, it wouldn't be as bad. Droll can only be dropped during the main phase and requires you to already add a card to your hand. There's actually plenty of decks and cards that can play through the droll just fine because you can still summon from deck and still foolish and mill.
if shifter had to be dropped in the main phase and could only be done in response to a card hitting the GY or something, you could play around it. It'd also get affected by talents, which is huge. There's many times where i've actually baited out a droll in a hand that could push through droll while also having talents to then punish the droll super hard. This just doesn't happen with shifter unless thrust had a good search target to actually work against shifter.
@@hasan7275
I can also see that. Again, Droll's usefulness is extremely volatile since it much stronger against Decks that like to add from Deck to hand often where Shifter hits more Decks harder due to how many more Decks need the GY. But both cards against the Decks they hate on practically win games by themselves but are meh against Decks that don't care for them
@@zerochill4096 well, i feel droll is more in the nib category in that regard. nib is pretty similar to droll, you can either have counter play or you just lose. shifter has 0 counterplay. your deck has to be a shifter deck to beat it. and cards like talents and crossout don’t hit it well either because it can be used before main phase and the only decks that would be able to use crossout on it would be on shifter meaning they don’t care about shifter. at least droll can be put into any deck and thus crossout actually does something.
I think the bigger problem is the graveyard
The game has made heavy use of the graveyard throughout its entire history. The graveyard has essentially been a "second hand" since duelist alliance came out 10 years ago. It's not a problem and has never been. If you want to play a game that's not like this, play pokemon instead
@@yuseifido5706 heavy use of the graveyard? 2002-2009?????? It was important but if shifter was printed in lob it would have been format dependent but not a staple. The fact that people are complaining about a card that cuts off resources for a turn is proof that the graveyard has gotten out of hand and too many decks rely on it, same could be said about special summoning and Maxx c, although maxx c is a poorly designed card but the fact that more decks don't take advantage of non special summoning methods is a design failure on Konami part.
The graveyard is an inherently powerful zone in the game. Too many decks use it to the extent that trying to punish the majority of the meta for existing is fundamentally game-changing.
@@rafflesiaandfriends Yes heavy use of the graveyard, even in 2002-2009.
Then tell konami to stop printing so many decks that need the graveyard to function because until that happens, shifter will be a huge problem
They banned Baronne, why can’t we have Gamma at 3? That’s my preferred Shifter answer
What's the best generic rank 10 to go into after accel?
@@eliasakkerman4597 Swordsoul Chenying or Dispater
we don’t need the maxx c-ash dynamic with gamma and shifter. “drawing the out for the out” or depending on drawing it is just bad game design. Ban shifter keep gamma limited.
@@eliasakkerman4597I’m assuming you mean Level 10s because for Rank 10s it’s Valdrath.
It’s just that Baronne is basically the only good generic Level 10. If you’re playing Waters/Dragons, go ahead and play Agregine or Dis Pater. But your deck was able to make those two, you probably already were. Chengying is probably the only other generic 10 that isn’t just awful, but good luck with your half an interruption.
@@redx4361 sure, but I don’t think they will ban Shifter. So having an out is better than just getting ruined by it
Something interesting about YuGiOh card discussions
Is cards like MaxC, Shifter, Droll, etc
They only get stronger over time
And because of that there is no “balanced” version of these cards
For example the Mini C. Sure today it may seem okay, but what about in a handful of years when every other card summons from the hand?
As power increases, it seems like summons from hand would generally _decrease_ in favor of summons from deck and the like, since most of the cards in a game are not in either player's hand in the vast majority of gamestates. But there's always the possibility that there will be a ton of add to hand/summon from hand sequences in the future, so we will see.
@@delta3244 Power increasing isn’t the only thing Konami has done, they also increase consistency
Summoning from deck is pointless if the cards in your hand can’t be used in the first place
I agree that Konami will 100% print more cards that summon from deck, but I still think they will print more and more cards that can summon from hand
This is especially true when “what happens if you draw the cards you want to summon from deck?” Making it so they summon themselves from hand no longer turns them into bricks
I think this is true for some of Konamis modern designs where plenty of cards are somehow Starters, extenders, and more
For example with "Mini C" it is balanced because it has another effect to limit the benefit ( if you have more then X, shuffle back ). That can seems to be designed to give you a set amount of benefit and that's pretty good.
@@PapajusLtu That limit means nothing
In what universe is that limit ever going off
You only draw a card when your opponent normal or special summons from hand. Meaning anytime you draw it’s also when your opponents board is getting bigger. Both your hand and their board get bigger at an equal rate meaning that the limit trigger will never happen. This is especially true is they ever summon something from the GY or deck or if they set any spells/traps
THANK YOU for bringing up Droll in this conversation.
Droll and shifter are at the same level of toxic, but y'all are too biased to agree to that
They both are toxic af, but at least a certain deck can't abuse Droll like how all deck that focus on banishing stuff (or stun deck) can abuse Shifter whenever they want to
Honestly, what is a combo deck nowadays? Is swordsoul a combo deck? Because I don't see how Nibiru keeps "combo" decks in check, when almost every deck does at least 5 summons to set up a decent board to compete nowadays. Same with Maxx c, letting you draw +3 or more cards just for someone setting up 2 Synchros is too insane even against not combo decks
I like the idea of keeping combo decks in check, but I think the definition of combo deck is not correct and it applies to most decks nowadays (except set 5 pass kind of decks)
My thoughts exactly. Nibiru and Shifter might have been the only ways to counter some critical TOSS decks, but their continued presence in the game is utterly toxic for how much they box out rogue strategies. I fundamentally disagree that they're meant to curb combo decks, especially when the best combo decks don't even care about Nibiru, they either made a negate to invalidate it OR they could play through its activation anyhow. A similar argument applies to Shifter - it doesn't stop combo decks, it just stops combo decks that can't play through Shifter. Crazy to see how so many players don't see how unfair these cards are.
nibiru is punishing players for overextending their plays and goes for excessive boards
@@guregureponnsalamangreat players literally have to do 5 or so summons to reach a very basic ass board, are you really going to say that that is "overextending"?
swordsoul is a midrange deck
and it plays really well against nib as it can just stop it if they drew two tenyi monsters
now they have a bit of a harder time cause they cant use longyoan to barron befor 5th summon which is well
nib before i would have said that its a problem card as literally every meta combo deck plays around it cause they summon barron or a similar negate befor the 5th summon being (manadium and shs for barron and spright tearliment snake-eyes for in engine ways)
but after the ban for barron combo decks dosent have an exact idea to go for and decks like spright tear ans snake-eyes are exiptinally powerful that you cant take them as something to ban nib cause
and from the upcoming archtybes they dont look to have a powerful play against nib
for example new lightsworn gimmick puppet and tachyon none of them really have a way against nib
there is white woods it dose have some potential ideas but you generally can time nib against them to stop them so unless there support give them something against nib they wont be a stupid deck like the ones before
@@guregureponn Alot of rogue decks needs to do more than 5 special summons to make a decent board. Nothing to do about overexstending. Only thing I would call overexstending is if you already got enough dmg to win and you keep summon more irellevant monsters just to flex and you then get hit by the rock for being a moron to him.
Joshua just casually listing his ban list for Konami to post
Cards like shifter should not exist. A single card should not shut down an entire design space in the game. There are many decks that play through the GY as their main game plan. Most notably, zombie decks have been doing that since literally the first season of YGO. The existence of cards like Shifter means GY oriented decks have to be in tier 0 broken status, like Tear/Ishizu, otherwise they simply cannot function as soon as people start decking for them.
The problem with shifter is that it lasts for 2 turns. it was meant to balance it so you cant use it on your opp and be free to use your gy on your turn, but that just made it better.
That's actually exactly what a card should do.
@@yamdarbHow? You should not just able to drop a floodgate turn 0 without needing any sort prep for it and it can't really be interacted with in a meaningful way. At least with other cards like that you gotta wait a whole turn to use it, have to combo get it on your field, or by the time you use it your opponent has to make choices to get around it. Most decks that use it aren't even bothered by shifter.
@@yamdarb Try out go-fish
You should not be able to put 20 cards in your GY as a resource, have a near full hand of possible hand trap disrupts, and a generic ED board either in this game, but it’s in the game. Shifter is toxic but so is how unbalanced turn 1 is in Yugioh. Nobody loses from a single Ash or imperm
Macrocosmos is bad, but having that effect in a extra deck monster is a mistake, like whan happened with Arise Heart, and even worse with Shifter because with Macrosmos you have to set it and can be destroyed, but a quick effect, turn zero, lingering effect is just not balanced.
There are much more monster negater/removal than S/T removal
Ariseheart is not a problem, we already have Dark Law Turbo. The problem is Kashtira Archetype being overtuned to match Tearlaments.
@@LS-qs9ju Dark Law is even worse since is one sided.
Ariseheart was perfectly balanced. It's in the same design space as Dark Law, D Fissure, and Macro where it's really only strong going first but unlike the backrow Macros it can be dealt with easily by cards everyone can play because they're almost always good in the modern game. Ariseheart being an Imperm, Book, Kaiju, Chalice, TTT, etc magnet that really only exists as a threat if the Kash player went first is balanced. Shifter applying your wincon floodgate before your opponent has even moved past their first standby phase is infinitely more broken. Ban Shifter. Maybe unban Ariseheart if the metagame would benefit (like right now).
Cry more GY Abuser
There is a 33% chance to draw a 3-of in your opening 5 card hand from a 40 card deck. Most discussions around shifter assume the player has it turn 0 when 66% of the time they will not, given they aren't cheating. Shifter turns into a brick as soon as you play anything that gets sent to the graveyard. It's frustrating and feels bad to play against but I don't believe it's inherently broken or ban worthy.
If you go into a twelve round YCS and you don't plan for Shifter or floodgates, that's your fault that you didn't fully prepare. Play the spell/trap removal, plan for the hand traps, and actually prepare yourself for any possible scenario. Better to plan for it and not see it then not prep for it and go X-3 because all your losses were to something that you didn't prepare for.
What "plan" is there for shifter? Bagooska pass? Lol
Hurts Runick? Josh: “This card needs to go! >:[“
Get called by and never get caught with your pants down.
Max C responds ? No Ash. Have fun
You have to accept the losses, a deck shouldn't have an answer to everything. Opponent summons noir, yeah you should have brought a kaiju, you didnt it isnt meta? Then take the loss. Rikka gets nibirud, take the loss. Kashtira gets kurikarad, take the loss. They arent meta, and they will get a few wins because people wont be prepared for them, and thats how it should be.
If people in Branded would explore the deck a bit more then they would notice that Branded could play into Shifter well on their own with Lubellion the lines are a bit weaker but still a Mirrorjade and some setup is possible.
Best card in Weather Painters hands down 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯
Remember when everyone said shifter is shit
Funny enough it was because no decks could abuse it at the rhe time. Basically all competent decks at the time needed the GY but as soon as a good deck came around that could take advantage or even just didnt need the GY as much as others, it became busted
Because decks that didn’t rely on GYs came out. GY combo decks got scared by Shifter more then even Maxx C since Maxx C at least still let you played
The real problem is Konami keeps printing GY reliant decks instead of banish reliant decks. As long as there is a majority of decks relying on GY and only a handful of banish reliant decks, Shifter will always be their threat. Banning Shifter is a bandaid solution because other effects that turn off the GY are just as much a threat as Shifter is. Arise-Heart, Necrovally, D fissure, Macro, Dweller, etc.
Droll is a necessary evil like Shifter. Everyone says if a deck dies to Droll, “they deserve it because those decks aren’t healthy for the game.”
Gamma is the only card that can respond to shifter on your opponents draw phase going first. People who run shifter are running a deck that can abuse it like Floow. The monarch adds it back ontop of their deck which allows them to spam it. Plus being 2 turns is broken, I’d be okay if shifter only banished cards for 1 turn.
shifter with only 1 turn would be HORRENDOUS for the game. Now decks that die to shifter could comfortably main deck it with no drawbacks outside of dead turn 2 draw. you'd see this card everywhere and it would get hammered by the list in like 2 weeks.
I think shifter is 100% fair. It's one of those cards that if you lost to it game 1 nothing could have been done about it, but the decks that run shifter are usually always decks that can get blown out after side decking.
Droll hurts decks like Dark World to much but we aren't at a point were it can be banned because Decks like Dark World would have so much gas that no deck can fight against them without cards like Dark Ruler No More because they'll make seemingly unstoppable boards anyways because you would be taking the only card that makes it so they can't vomit out a board through 5 hand traps. Konami would take a look at the decks that You need Droll for other than these decks like Centurion and Branded that doesn't really do the things that decks like Dark World does and rebalance them with erratas that make a decent amount of the cards once per turn.
The Dark World argument is bad. If Dark World is a problem if we don't have cards like Shifter and Droll then Dark World is already a problem, just a disincentivized one.
@@geek593 Well I see your point but in the event they ban Droll it would create even bigger tier 0 problem even if they banned Silva so they couldn't hand loop. I already made a comment agreeing that Shifter has to go and why it make sense that Nibiru needs to go because its to powerful when it resolves and it only helps decks like Dark Magician because almost every deck has evolved to a point where if you Dark Ruler No More or Lava Golem your opponent you get to make your board and then your opponent will probably be mowed down by your own interruptions anyways. Its not that I don't want players able to use older decks in tournaments. But the same argument for Baronne and Apallousa would probably apply to Nibiru to. If a deck is so weak that it needs cards like Nibiru to compete maybe people shouldn't be taking those decks to tournaments in the first place. Take look at deck Ed like Spright. If played well enough with the Nimble package one Dark Ruler No More is enough because if you clear your opponents board of monsters you've already got so many interruptions that they can't do anything at all next turn without a board breaker and this isn't the only example. Branded, Unchained, and Yubel(Especially after Phantom of Yubel is out) are perfect examples of this to.
Erratas are dogshit anyways, just ban the card and print new ones.
@@krele14 Well I see your point but its not justifiable to kill a archetype there people out there that don't want decks to die thats why Konami didn't kill Tearlament and Ksshtira and they are slowly bring old non-format warping cards like the Dragon Rulers back. Konami has kept on hitting Tearlament to curb their power and not to kill it. Which proof lies in Reinoheart continuing to be at 3 every format and them not doing anything to Tearlaments Kashtira. My recommendation would be that they make Grapha and Reign Beauxs' effects once per turn so they can't keep on looking resources.
@@jacobwoodard818 truly a Yu-Gi-Oh player's reading comprehension. Just ban and retrain, erratas are a terrible bandaid solution.
Hey Josh. I was just wondering about your opinion on boss monsters with Omni-negate abilities:
Should they be allowed if locked to an archetype? (Like raidraptors)
Or are omni-negates unhealthy for a meta-game regardless?
If you can stop his interruption to your combo deck its considered toxic cause he hates combo period.
you can prep for shifter tho, build in combos that dont lose to having no gy
like its not as bad as nib, if they toss shifter out at least you keep your resources
Shiftor , harpie’s feather storm, king calamity
The new maxx c is part of an archtype, as it mentions "other multchummy cards" in its text. So maybe they will print a mulchummy D shifter and ban the old one.
This is why we need called by at 3.
Hey Runick man, thoughts on Runick Mikanko, or more approriately named Runickanko? Half stun with Messenger of Peace and full stun if you don't draw a Mikanko board early
Brother wants to empower snake eyes, runik and branded :/
Lol do you think these decks you mentioned above is the only deck that relies on graveyard? Do you just conveniently forgot the existence of rogue deck and un-tiered/meme deck that relies on gy as well?
Shifter needs to go 3
It is at 3
It should be banned
Yep shouldve at 3.
@@vaxel0068I mean in MD
You want a balanced a healthy way to do a deck that punish a certain strategy ? look no further, konami already did it.
Exosister is an heathy anti GY deck. Yes, it also uses shifter but even without it, it's still an anti-GY deck that doesn't prevent your opponent from playing the game. We need more deck like that. Why not a deck that doesn't prevent from adding card from deck to hand but instead punish it ?
Now if only they didn't make exosister super mid...
I have shifter errata
“…the first four cards that would be send to the GY of each player per turn are banished instead”.
Case solved and shifter WILL do what it was supposed to do. Be a form of deterrence and boost for certain decks.
Next case
Would a Minn C version of D. Shifter that changes it to banish face-down for its user, while face-up for the opponent, make it slightly more balanced?
No, for fucks sake can't you even construct your own thoughts? It's abused by decks which don't give a shit if their cards are banished whatsoever.
@@krele14 That's why I was asking, cause if ever that Konami doesn't want to remove the effect that Shifter has, maybe a weaker version can be made.
Edit: Forgot about Kashtira Arise Heart that can take into itself even banished facedown cards, so I removed the part of my comment that asked an archetype that can still utilize/interact with the banished facedown cards.
I just don’t like how shifter stops cards that say send to gy use. That’s crazyyy
when it comes to shifter even if its banned now or some time in the future it will be unbanned for a certain format. after the Ishizu tearlaments format i became sure that konami does prefer to let some problem combos exist for some time on purpose, if the ishizu cards were what broke tearlaments, eventually shifter will become what breaks future meta decks that purely rely on banishing, just like tear purely relies on being sent to grave as effect. and konami will on purpose leave shifter untouched should it be still be playable by then. to give you an idea: shiarnui when played under shifter can generate some crazy advantage, and its a buried deck already, so you can imagine what effects will an archetype that purely relies on banishing would do under shifter, think of it as the "tear but with banish " instead. in conclusion: for now shifter is toxic for shutting down decks, but in future it will be even more toxic for enabling decks, and floo was just the appetizer for this scenario
always thought that eventually we're gonna get a deck thats "tear but banish" and its gonna be running necroface as its kelbek and shifter as its orange light
What I love about Spright is how resilient and consistent it is. It has 1 card combos but at the very worst when you get hand trapped it generally only turns into a 2 card combo because you make Gigantic early to stop Nibiru or you go aggressive and make Spright Sprind and then make Gigantic. Your best Spright hand allows you to easily push through 2 hand traps against a seasoned player. But if you don't know how to stop Spright they will waste 2 Imperms on Nimble Beaver and Jet and be beaten by Sprind or Gigantic. Thats just people nowadays. They'll just use their hand traps without thinking because they are afraid to lose.
Shifter is one of the defining cards of YGO converting to a 1-turn-per-player game when every deck that can somewhat play it play it, because it solidly locks your opponent out of their turn with little to no counter-play. If you drop this card in say 2019 you would not feel nearly as bad because there is a much better chance that you can just weather the storm and not die immediately the following turn. This is also true to all other turn skip cards, with the key difference being that most of them are trap cards and thus cannot be used on Turn 1 barring Lab or something extremely gimmicky.
Konami can do one of two things: either ban Shifter and some of the most popular turn skip trap cards, or bring back Gamma and Red Reboot to 3 so we can fight cheese cards with cheese cards.
definitely if shifter does ever get banned they gotta kill every single other turnskip option
Too many times I have broken my opponent board but lose because I give them a turn and they just beat me because of the GY effects
Then don't give them a turn.
Then otk em or build board with multiple interruption after, or floodgates em
What do you mean people don't take Shifter into account? How can everyone be that stupid?
Shifter cant be responded to on your opponent's turn 1. Either give us back gamma to 3 or ban shifter
Fr. I run 1 shiftor and 3 crossout and the 1 called in my snake eyes build, and it pisses me off then they shiftor on their turn 1
I'd rather they ban shifter regardless. I love Omega, but drawing driver feels as good as a non-anesthetesized vasectomy.
@@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock. dtawing shifter turn 2?
As I was about to agree and say thank you, I finally realized that this card was probably made for Kozmos 😅😂 Also imperial iron wall
As the great Tony Stark once said if you are nothing without shifter than you shouldn’t have shifter.
I'll play devil's advocate for a minute here. Should decks have answers or ways to play around every single card? In this case shifter, but in general should some cards reward you for playing a strategy that works well with them?
If a card is designed to be a floodgate that doesn't really affect your strategy that isn't good. A floodgate usually requires work to combo to, needs at least a turn to use, or it can be interacted. Using this logic a handtrap that basically activate as skill drain, anti spell, or mystic mine would be fair by this logic. Handtraps shouldn't be designed as a lingering effect as the power of decks increase the higher chance these lingering effects will only punish the deck that isn't the strongest.
@galaxyvulture6649 solid. Yep shifter is a floodgate type card so that would make more sense than regular cards
Konami be like : time to watch my daily joshua schmidt banning advice to implement them in our next ban list
😂😂😂
shifter would only be fine if the banish zone was a 2nd hand :)
My only problem with droll and shifter is, they are game ending cards. By that I mean if I droll my opponent like 89% of the time the deck is shut down and forced to set pass. Same with shifter. If I shifter my opponent 89% of the time the opponent is forced to set pass and pray. While nibiru just lets you respect it and at least play maybe 4 summons or so and hope for the best BUT it is not as bad as the other two. Imho both should be banned.
If shifter specialed itself then was continues it be fairer. Obviously need to control no card or some restriction
I don't share the idea that Shifter is ok because some decks don't get to use the grave because we have cards more fair than that that we can play. We have all kinds of board breakers that your opponent can't respond to so you don't have to care what they have and we have cards like D.D. Crow, Soul Release, Ghost Belle, Dimensional Fissure, Soul Drain, Necro Valley, Abyss Dweller, etc. and because of the numerous ways we have to deal with the grave we don't need Shifter. I would say that other than some of the other cards I've already mentioned decks have come so far that all you need to really keep them in check is Droll and Ash Blossom because if we don't let our opponent resolve Branded Fusion and we don't let decks like Dark World go plus 1 million decks like Spright and older decks that got new support like Fire Kings and Lightsworn are roughly on the same level as everything else when played well. In fact Spright if played well enough can beat Fire King Snake-Eye pretty easily and I like running it because even with the Nimble package the decks capable of running so many non-engine cards that I have room for 3 Cosmic Cyclone in addition to 2-3 copies of Spright Smashers in the main deck. This makes Spright my go to deck for the current meta because not only can I skillfully do enough to beat every deck in the game. But I also have a effective answer to Runick, stun strategies, and decks like Floowandereeze. Spright isn't that far behind in consistency because if you run the Nimble package you already have 2 1 card starters in Nimble Beaver and Spright Starter. Also with a lot of the extra deck not being needed Pot of Prosperity is free real-estate. Over Twenty of decks cards is non-engine and thats inside a 40 card deck.
Try to play Kashtira, Floo, Weather Painter without banishing any card.
And you will know our pain
"If you control no cards, and you opponent controls at least 1 card" as a condition to Shifter would maken it ok perhaps?
i would've even preferred if shifter was a card that affected only monsters hitting the GY like fissure. i got hit with DDG while playing snake eye, and my turn wasn't over bc temple allows me to still send some cards to the GY by making them into spells, and i can still discard spells to summon diabellstar and still use cards like droplet, still be able to activate cards like original by sending a spell so i can summon an oak to summon a banished card. I have had hands against shifter in snake eye that literally can't even be used against shifter. The only good prep against shifter is hope you draw snake eye ash so you have a play at all and to play the kash engine. that's it.
and yes, i get that i'm complaining about my tier 0 deck auto-losing to shifter, but statistically, it still beats shifter decks because they tend to be weak and you're only likely to see shifter 1 out of 3 games anyway. it's the fact that in any scenario where they see the second shifter, you simply lose the match, or that some hands simply cannot withstand it, so a mistake in an earlier game that had no shifter in it might mean you lose the match. there's just no counter play.
Just say you hate Combo decks.
Nibiru singlehandedly take decks like salads and heroes out of the meta i feel like without it a lot of decks would be meta
Shifter would be atleast concept wise somewhat balanced if it for example said: if your opponent has 5+ cards in his GY and you have no cards in your GY: YOu can discard this card; until the end of the next turn if any card would be sent to the gy banish it instead.
or worked like droll, totally fine to have a card that *limits* what a GY abusing strategy can do, but the fact it outright turn skips 90% of decks including almost every rogue deck makes it extremely bullshit
It’s not reasonable to prepare for nib and shifter but we should prepare for a tier 0 format every 6 months? That is insane to me to act like a 40 to 60 card deck should have every answer to all the other 20000 plus cards
when i play online half of my opponents play shifter i cant anymore i like to vomit you have one card that can out it
Ban shifter
Make shifter, but with an activation condition, like "can activate from hand if your opponent sends a card from deck to grave"
Giving it an activation condition at least gives the opponent ways to play around it, Doesn't have to specify be "deck to grave" trigger.
I think shifter its like people play it cuz even tho it can effect your deck it hurts you opponent more. Spright shifter you cant do sprind plays but depending what youre against its nasty.
Shifter can't be popular because if it is shifter becomes irrelevant, Shifter gives us reason to play decks that don't need the grave that much and if you want to play around Shifter you're just going to play a Shifter deck, Vanquish Soul with Shifter is a great example.
Shifter affects the player who uses it too so it won't just limit the strategy of the deck as you also won't use cards like veiler / droll / ogre / maxx c (in md) / droplet, for me shifter is a well-balanced card because it affects for 2 turns and I also think droll should also be like that.
Also using argument that the card is frustrating so it needs to get ban can be applied to 90% of cards in the format.
Your argument falls down when you take in account that the only decks that run shifter are the ones that can play property over it. So it's not balanced when 1 players is not affected by it but opponent (most likely) is.
@@PapajusLtu No, there are decks where you can make your combo/end board without necessarily needing the gy or even decks that are not affected by the shifter.
Decks that can play property over it have to limit their deck build to be able to use it, so that's precisely why you won't see any deck using it, when tear was tier 0 shitfer was the one with the possibility of stopping them and bringing other decks to the meta.
If only affects your opponent, ANY deck could use it and ALL games would come down to whether you have it in your hand or not/can you negate it or not.
Evenly needs to go before shifter
Just like some deck that wants to play with the graveyard, why can't I play with my Banished Zone?
Because decks that play with Banishment have several cards that push their cards there so that they can recycle them later. Ghoti, Swordsoul, Kashtira, Ritual Beast, Psychic pile, Floowandereeze all have mechanics and ways to banish cards so that they can utilize this second grave. If you're honestly having problems achieving this without Shifter then there's a problem with you, the pilot.
Then the same could be said to graveyard decks. And even Shifter is only really good if you open it while going first and need a spesific deck to actually works. Saying that Shifter needs to be banned is like saying Millers should be banned, and I'm for it if they hit both so it's a fair trade
@@aeugh8998 except millers are built into archetypes, they're specifically designed to use the mill effect as a cost to pay for effects because you're at the surface value you're putting yourself in danger of decking out and losing the game to do so. That said, card design has turned this drawback into a benefit to play from a different direction.
Shifter on the other hand wasn't designed for any particular archetype, it was a floodgate meant to punish grave based effects which had become rampant, even if the archetypes weren't mill based (Salamangreat isn't a mill deck, but they still have a fair number of grave based effects, and there are many like them). The decks that directly benefit from Shifter still work as decks without Shifter as they were already designed to interact with Banishment. Floo cards banish themselves when they leave the field and can add themselves back when you summon more birds, Kashtira have ways of banishing cards to fuel their effects and are already sizable bodies on their own.
@@otterfire4712 which archetype? How many generic graveyard millers do we get just from the extra deck? Hell, ban all of them, ban Zombie Vampire and Beatrice also while at it. Just because you want your Graveyard Combo to work everytime doesn't mean Shifter needed to be banned. Most decks that play Shifter can't even OTK reliably unless it's Gren Maju. Not every card can play with Shifter, but every card can play with Mills nowadays so it's fair for Shifter to exist
@@aeugh8998 can't otk consistently? May I introduce you to kashtira, one of the best shifter decks in the game?
So shifter is an underrepresented xard that few (and mostly mid) decks can play and it slows fown meta; I see genuinely zero reason to ban this card in a game that has spiralled so far out of control
I don't get what Joshua means.
Is he suggesting to make a more powerful shifter that affects your opponent only so that every deck can play it and therefore people have to prepare for it and adapt like they do with Nibiru?
i mean, with nibiru you can play around it by getting protection first, but to me the problem is that there are so many stupid decks that can play around nib and still make a crazy unbreakable board. he also mentions maxx c, his problem is that you basically can't do shit to avoid playing into shifter, it's just a huge swing in advantage that is always going to get you no matter what you do and it's annoying as hell.
@@OlgaZuccatimake protection for nib? My brother in Christ they just banned most of it
It’s dimension shifter not “dimensional”
Shifter is perfectly fine. It makes tier 2 decks able to hang with the top tier decks
the problem is that shifter is literally a win con. Decks using it are totally beat able unless they draw the 3 off. It just intensifies the luck aspect of the game.
I think his initial point about how most hand traps trigger off your opponent doing something is a good point because it allows your opponent to play around. Like you might end on weaker board because you don’t want to get hit with nid or if your deck likes to add cards hand you might play it slightly different so you can get the most important card first so when you get drolled it hurt less. But shifter there is almost none that. For most decks it’s just a turn ender with minimal way to stop it.
So they ban Barone because of nibiru, why not ban other staples as well?
Tbf shifter wasnt a problem for a long time.
Hitler wasn't a problem either before he became Nazu-Germanys leader. The hell is this point coming from? XD
Ban shifter so I don't need to be afraid anymore when I play Runick🙂
I’d trade shifter for barrier statue on the ban list.
Shifter is fine as only very few deck can use it as josh said, and lot of em not even top tier most of the time. Maxx C is kinda not as all decks can use it
Same as floodgates deck like skill drain, jowgen, dyna, etc. They barely have representation. Top decks like snake eyes are the one that shouldve get hit.
Lol do you really compare Maxx C and D Shifter in term of how much deck using them? Are you high or what?
@@Test-mq8ih yep, maxx C so good coz all dwcks can use it. While barely any can use shifter, while lot of the times shifter decks not even top tier.
Maxx C definitely way more powerful coz its accessibility
Me, as a Dark World player wants to see Dimension Shifter going to hell.
Shifter is fine, HOWEVER D Fissure is not because it’s activatable immediately, no mattter the conditions, and stays on the field, rather than going away after 2 turns
it's a two turn lingering floodgate from hand with extremely few ways to stop it if the opponent shotguns it. it's about as toxic as it gets. Retaliating C is the less toxic version since it can actually be interacted with but the summoning clause of the opponent using a spell that summons is what keeps it from being a viable substitute
I'm all for giving decks counterplay and tools to contend with meta decks but it should go both ways, right? if the only thing that makes your rogue deck viable is floodgating then just skip the middleman and start summoning some pachys
The graveyard should get a limiter if we get rid of shifter,
Something like how the extra deck limit is 15 and main is 40-60.
🤷🏻♂️ maybe theres some math here,
Like players can’t send more then X cards from “their own decks to grave” per turn. Or players can only have 10X cards in grave. So turn one 10, turn 2 20, and up until the game ends kind of like a battlefield and holes being blown open and bodies falling in. Not trying to be morbid just trying to use different logic here. Thoughts, this would be banning shifter of course.
The grave is more powerful then the hand sometimes or most of the time
To me, floodgates like this that can be a turn pass or at least one card that just limit too much a lot of deck should not be legal as Scythe, easy to trigger aren't a good thing to me
But shifter is only useful on like turn1 and it is useless afterwards for most of the time. They are having 2 useless cards in the deck if they have been used in turn 1 and even 3 if they can't be used in turn 1.
Think about if maxx c can only be activated when your graveyard is empty.
Shifter is fine, nibiru is fine, droll is fine, going second doesn't need hits, they need more archtype those cards don't affect... gamma to 3
No wonder Konami TCG could milk the card up to thousand in price. No card keep those new archtype in check. Better release the Roaches guys.
I like dark law
It should definitely be banned but they must have some reason to not do it. I’m not expecting it to be banned in the future
D Shifter requires concessions to not be abused akin to Maxx C or Mystic Mine. It's a band aid solution like all of the above, but it lets Little Timmys get into the game *and* its existence is tolerable except to egos.
I see your point but the problem Nibiru gives only one token and 9 times out of 10 it forces you to not over extend or have at least have a card like Arvata or you'll probably lose. Nibiru needs to give tokens equal to the amount of monsters you lose in defense position only because it takes away the back and forth. People underestimate the value of cards like Lava Golem, Forbidden Droplets, and Dark Ruler No More that can't be responded to and underestimate their own decks in the process. I can tell you If I'm playing a deck like Spright that can easily have 4 or more interruptions and I have Dark Ruler No More I'm cooking almost every deck in the game. If people haven't noticed 9 times out of 10 if you get to do your stuff whether it be a older deck like Branded or Swordsoul or a new deck the power and consistency decks have already hit the point where if you successfully resolve Dark Ruler No More they aren't going to be able to recover through all of your interruptions after you get rid of your opponents monsters and if they do don't you think they deserve that extra chance to win that game. I think people who want cards like Nibiru that are this devastating when they resolve either have combo deck PTSD or they want cards that can make mistakes feel less impactful. Trust me once you understand your deck as long as your deck isn't older than Branded or Swordsoul or as long as your playing one of the older decks like Lightsworn which got new support you won't have to have a card as strong as Nibiru is when it resolves to compensate for their weaknesses.
The way I see it shifter is balanced by the fact that a good chunk of decks can't run shifter does it suck yes but no more than getting nibiru'd or ashed
I dont see a problem with shifter tbh. Its not good vs every deck and the decks that do play it arent tier 1 anyways so what
Shifter is a card that only ever feels good turn 1, it's frustrating but not worth a ban. I'd say gamma to 3
Shifter sucks ass in design and application and I hate that people think it’s skillful.
Oh the application is really good against no skill decks like snake eyes puting 7 to 8 disruption with hand traps AND infinite follow up.
Shifter is fine. Decks without GY reliance and can play Shifter are already severely disadvantaged in Yugioh (with very few exception, e.g. Kashtira). Droll and Nibiru are no different to Shifter. Either your deck can play around them, or it can't. Either it ends your turn, or it doesn't. It's just the case that more decks can't play around Shifter because more Yugioh decks rely on the GY. Inversely, very few decks can play Shifter. Shifter is also entirely a brick if you draw it any time after turn 1. Nibiru and Droll aren't because they can still stop your opponent, which might be favourable even if it means tributing your own field.
Josh trying to explain the same kinda issues with the same other yugioh cards like nibiru or droll... is kinda the same point josh.
There was the same point in time were this cards have more usage than others depending on the format.
You ban shifter then EVERY deck that uses GY will need further nerfing for balance, even Tear in its limited state would be far too strong without having to respect it
This anti-shift argument feels fairly on point for handtraps in general, because they're all designed to various degrees to brick your hand or impede your play.
Shifter just leans into floodgate camp, while Ash is just "you better have the response or a back-up starter card."
One for one trades require value assessment to brick the opponent's hand. That's gameplay. Knowing the opponent's value targets for Ash, getting a read of potential extenders, holding cards like Imperm for playing into the board instead of shotgunning it, etc. Shifter and Droll have zero gameplay tied to them. You have them? You use them. You probably win with them. They're some of the worst designed cards in the game and they exist outside of the design space of other hand traps.
Dimension shifter can only be negated on the first turn with psy frame gear gamma. That's the only card that can negate it on the opponent's first turn. Dimension shifter is far to broken.
shifter would be so epic if every shifter deck is spright shifter in tear format or if you go lab shifter right now. when a deck that wants to use the grave all the time every time plays shifter does it create a cool dynamic but when it just is !i dunno why wouldn't i play it" THATS where it is a problem. i think no card in the game should be why wouldn't i.