It affects the Commander format, so I have to talk about the new Un-set, Unfinity. Patreon / edhdeckbuilding TCGPlayer Affiliate Link www.tcgplayer....
Counterpoint: We should just allow certain previous unset cards in commander. The commander format is about just having fun and maybe we should be open to this change. Not saying I’m right just presenting a different point of view
I think it’s confusing too and there’s so many changes and cash grabs trying to make the eternal formats as big of money makers as standard was. People moved off of standard for a reason. I may yet move off of MTG entirely.
As the owner of a silver-bordered cube, I am the target audience for an un-set - and I absolutely hate what they have done with this one. - Black-borders - This alone will exclude any of these cards from my silver-border cube. This was a needlessly stupid idea. - Hologram Confusion - Not even Wizards can get this right, having spoiled incorrect versions of both Watergun Balloon Game and Magar of the Magic Strings. If they can't keep the holograms straight, how can the average player? And if the incorrect images actually make it to print... oh, boy. - Stickers - Short of Chaos Confetti, this is one of the dumbest mechanics you could stick in a card game. I hate it. So, will I get anything from this set? Certainly not a box like previous un-sets. And it would take quite the single for me to purchase. I think I'll just pass. There are certainly an excess of other products to choose from these days.
Remember when Wizards thought Hullbreacher should be legal in Commander? I wonder what it'd do if the rules commitee declared Un-set cards to all be wholesale banned? I don't want that goofy Un-crap. I'm not buying a box of cards I largely can't use, let alone heavily inflated singles due to abysmal production runs. Say what you want about Double Masters 2022, I _built_ my cube, and I like the draft feel of that set (Imperial Seal and Shadowborn Apostle notwithstanding). This is like 2X2, but _so much_ worse.
First to clarify: Rules committee never made a ruling on silver borders. That's a rule from Wizards that those cards are not legal in other formats, and commander was just made using regular eternal format legality. So they're not circumnavigating around the rules committee, and those cards are also legal in other eternal formats. As for my opinions, I do find it's going to be confusing to start. But I don't mind the idea. It gives Wizards a space to play with more interesting and unique ideas, without them feeling out of place in a proper set.
Been saying this for months on end, I wish there was an EDH format (not current Commander) where all cards legal were printed into standard. Those get play tested, they aren’t historically direct to commander printings, and still end up being mechanically unique and interesting. All this direct to commander product, rarity upshifts, commander plants in standard sets, etc are all ruining what once was an exciting alternative to eternal format magic.
6:07 - You make an excellent point. It's almost as if the design of this unset required some _seriousness_ attached, in order to ensure the product sells.
I get wotc wanting to sell this to commander players, but why overcomplicate things? Just print the legal cards black bordered and the rest silver bordered
@@MajraMangetsu It's less a must and more a preference. Unstable was silver bordered and still had six black border cards in it - the five basics and Steamflogger Boss.
There literally is no point in making them commander legal except for profit. It's not like you couldn't play some silver bordered cards in commander already, given that your playgroup is fine with it. A buddy of mine runs Earl of Squirrel in his Chatterfang deck for example. The only real difference is that people won't feel like having to ask their pod if they're fine with it anymore, which is quite the downgrade if you ask me.
There is, the rules committee, wizards said silver border wasn't tournament legal, EDH doesn't have tournaments (technically) yet the legality of cards in the format is the same as eternal formats... including the non-legal cards, which according to WotC it wasn't the intention.
@@Nobody-zl3kk I don't think you understand what he meant and you don't understand the difference between this unset and other unsets. By transitioning to the acorn hologram with black borders, they are specifically making these cards look like non-unset cards. The move to have them expressly format legal without having a discussion with your playgroup and having the regular hologram on the cards is only to push the product and sell more.
@@SHADOWCLOUDGAMING Did you not read what i said? they are not format legal because the rules committee skipped the part where WotC said they were non-legal _for tournaments_ in their tournament-less casual format, also the discussion with play group is anon-argument in this situation, you could rule out anything with rule 0 but that wont stop hard-heads from sticking to the words of the RC like fucking gospel. Also, a company trying to sell product, omg how could this be? are these the end times? since when did capitalism become capitalist?
@@Nobody-zl3kk Yeah, I read your comment and your wrong. They literally came out as part of the hype for Unfinity and said the cards are "Eternal Format Legal". You're just wrong.
@@Nobody-zl3kk And your dismissive tone and reductive argument does nothing to actually address my point. They are changing the game to sell products. They are taking a product that has been a fun set for limited or sealed events and they are changing the legality of the cards and the way they are printed to make them legal in formats. You have no idea what you're talking about.
I don’t understand why they couldn’t have the cards that would be legal in commander a black border and the others a silver border. Its actually happened before. In Unstable, there was an actual black border card, Steamflogger Boss. It had been printed in Future Sight and they put its mechanics in Unstable. It would be easier to distinguish, and the cards would all still work together. Its not like the whole Unfinity experience would be ruined if a few cards were black border.
So not exactly, the reason Steamflogger Boss worked is because it took the place of the land slot. It was not printed with the other silver bordered cards. It is impossible to print silver and black bordered on the same sheet, as the machines arent precise enough to cut them perfectly. Now, to me this means they just ditch the black bordered cards. But instead they ditched silver bordered. So stupid.
@@MrContinuityError Yeah, it is stupid. But then again, its Wizards. They'll do anything that fills their pockets, even if at the expense of their customers
I have loved previous unsets. If it wasn't for the legal commander cards in this set, I would be excited for this. Shock lands will sell it anyways. I do not see the need for the extra confusion. I hate this set because of the stickers and holostamp confusion.
I looked forward to playing an Unset, never done it before since i'm qiuet new to the game. But i don't know, it feels weird how they are designing cards for commander while designing this set too, like isn't it supposed to be wacky cards that breaks the rules and is more of a party game experience?
An Un-set draft is worth doing. I highly recommend drafting this at your LGS with as many people as you can get; it's a hoot and a holler, and a genuinely amazing Magic experience. The home of Un-sets is Draft. That is the only place they are good. In literally every other format, they are terrible and outright fail at being good Magic cards, and MaRo's bull-headed stubbornness at trying to force Unfinity into Commander and Legacy is going to eat metric tons of crap, and be seen for years if not decades as a terrible move with obvious consequences that a growing has-been insisted on.
@championchap ... Good? Un-sets are fun. They are not a critical Magic experience, as Draft has been declining for years. Them going away for a while, with an occasional release, is alright.
I don't like that they took away the silver border. If you wanted certain cards to be Commander legal then just leave them with the regular black border. I won't open any of these boxes or packs. But I guess I'll have to order singles later.
I'd play Saw in half. I could also build a fun deck with Magar. However i can see where the rules committee has a problem with WOTC circumventing their rules. But I also see that this is just WOTC being WOTC, tapping into the commander market with each set they release. If that market generates the most money, financially that just seems like the sound thing to do.
7:30 you can't flip them faceup at all, if they were to be turned faceup, you instead reveal it, and its turned facedown again, as how it was before. Turning them faceup does nothing. So break open is still equally bad.
@@edhdeckbuilding 701.34f If a manifested permanent that’s represented by an instant or sorcery card would turn face up, its controller reveals it and leaves it face down. Abilities that trigger whenever a permanent is turned face up won’t trigger.
Magar of the Magic Springs can be made to be a Cedh deck. You have 3/3 that often will not be blocked, efficient removal, additionally wheels, and extra tutors. You can run Salt in Half with Duelcaster mage for the win.
I'm not mad because this is something I enjoy, but I understand why people are mad. A set that is usually self contained is no longer self contained because of "greed" , but I see it as "hey commander players, you like doing stupid shit so here is a set that's known for stupid shit, here you go"
The problem is them forcing everyone to agree to play with those silly rules what if I don’t want to play with killer cosply what I’ll need to check now everyone doesn’t run those complicated un cards?
My playgroup already plays with un-cards. Excluding cards that require real life dexterity or "gotcha", they are a lot of fun. Frankie Peanuts just makes for awesome politics. Season's Beatings could be a real card, similar to Alpha Brawl. My favorite is quizzing people with Squirrel Farm!
I think it's fine. Products like Game Nights and other random supplemental products like Jumpstart have released new cards in the past and many of the cards have been fun additions to the game. Commander is a casual format and most enfranchised players will already know about the acorn symbol. I feel like this is one of those things that people will make a big deal about because it's different now, but in 1, 2, 5 years from now we will laugh that there was worry over this confusing players. Magic is a super complex game and the average player that player Commander can handle keeping track of acorns and non-acorn cards. I personally will still refer to them as silver boarder just as I still called it converted mana cost rather than mana value.
I don't mind they are playable. I mean they look like any other legal card. Maybe the problem I see is, why didn't they just print the unplayable ones in silver borders still and we have half the set black bordered and the other half silver bordered. It would be easier to understand and be consistent with what it was before and still allowing some cards to be legal
I've always been a fan of Unsets. Having the black border, but with an acorn dot it fine with me. If the acorns are banned in Commander, what about the other game formats?
I'll be honest here, there actually does feel like a mechanical reason that WotC is making some cards legal from the latest un-set despite what it might look like apart from just money. Yes on the surface there is that point as well BUT at the same point there are always some cards in each un-set that feel like they could be printed in Magic sets that are legal for eternal formats. If you take a step back and look at some things from a design space prospective this idea does feel like it's justified as some mechanics are added to the actual game. There are some notable examples like Krark's Other Thumb which works with Dice but was printed in an un-set so probably coupon be repeated in a legal set due to that so having to create another card that has the same effect but might not have the flavor of a future set where it could have been a card is something to note here. The example people are using with Saw in Half as a card that should be silver bordered could actually fit thematically in to another set that would fit it's flavor and function but couldn't be used because of it being a from an un-set and thus not useable because of being silver bordered despite being a legal card from an actual set then. It's sorta WotC trying to future proof some cards while making money to some degree while not having a card like Steamflogger Boss be printed in a normal set then reprinted in an un-set.
I do not mind traditional black-bordered cards in an unset. It is another chance to print flavourfull, but non high-fantasy cards and it gives another reason to buy an un-set looking beyond drafting. On the other hand just leave traditional silver boardered as is and have to frame designs in one set.
I played against a deck that had a handful of silver bordered cards at Commandfest Indy. It was a good time. That said, he checked with everyone first and it didn't have too much craziness. Removing the silver border is pretty annoying. We're used to playing with full art, alt art, proxies, etc... They really don't need to be black bordered. That acorn holo-stamp is not a very clear indicator of anything.
The problem is the vast majority of players treat silver boarder cards as "not real magic cards." One of the points of giving them a black boarder is to try and get over this stigma the player base has.
I have two questions. 1) okay, for rare, you like at the hologram, but for the rest, how do we do ? Are we suppose to look each card up on gatherer or scryfall to know if it's legal or not ? 2) I see Magar as "legal" based on its hologram thingy. I see Magar's alternate art as "non-legal" based on its hologram thingy. So... what do we do ?
The fact that they’re not silver bordered turned me off. Been buying every unsets but this one is a definite pass. They really need to stop with the commander fetish, its destroying every other format…
To me, they should be printed in the silver bordered cards first, for the draft format. And if they want to print any of these for commander they should just create functional reprints, or maybe just print them later in a commander precon. UN sets should be designed around fun, and never made to be balanced into the other formats.
I had no clue this was even coming out Wizards of the coasts are definitely annoying at this point I will not be using these cards, but thank you for the info!
The Committee did try to legalise silver border for a few months after the last set and they went back cause it wasn't really practical. This is just Wizards looking at that experiment and saying "fuck it, we wanna make money".
Stickers are the main problem. Personally, I'm hoping that the LGS' I go to will ban all "legal" sticker cards (since I'm not yet seeing any indication that the RC will do so); they have no place outside of un-sets.
I've never really cared about the Un-sets to begin with outside of a scant few cards that I own for the S&G's. No one in our playgroup really cares too much about these goofy little creations either, but hey, to each their own. 🤷♂️
It actually doesn't except for savage beating. All the other ones specifically mention being cast during the main phase to give you an extra combat step. Magars ability means you have to cast the copy immediately during combat or not at all. If you cast them during combat they do nothing.
@@PubStompMTG world at war will only give you one more step. If you cast it after your first postcombat main phase it doesn't work. If you have brass bounty and aggrevated assault sure but that's a combo that could be done easier with any infinite mana generator.
Wizards jumped the shark a long time ago. I simply don't buy new product other than singles these days I can't believe an un-set is coming out and it's not silver border.
I just wonder if noting the name has to be public knowledge. Personally as soon as maybe 3 or 4 cards are facedown this way, I will forget which one is which and I can see it as an unfair advantage if the opponent doesn't have to clarify which facedown card is a Sign in Blood or which is the In Garruk's Wake and I don't know which one to block.
In general, the order in which face-down permanents entered the battlefield (and thus which ones are which) is public information. In practice, with this specific card, the "face down" part of the effect is there because it's the only way an instant or sorcery can be on the battlefield within the rules; the actual way people play the card will presumably be to put the spell on the board face-up, possibly with a die set to 3 on top.
"Un-sets were released every couple years" - Unglued 1998, Unhinged 2004, Unstable 2017. Unsanctioned not a real set but 2020, Unfinity 2022. They are getting closer together now, and with black borders, we will likely see more Un-sets at a higher frequency, my prediction. "I hate it when WOTC exercises intellectual control over their own IP (paraphrase)" - last time I checked WOTC owns and controls the IP of MTG, not the Commander RC. The only reason WOTC hasn't taken over control of the format is because the RC curates the format for free. Otherwise WOTC would have to hire a full time team, but why do that when you can get free labor. At any moment WOTC could just tell the Commander RC "we'll take it from here" and from then on be in complete control of the format. Technically the RC runs a format called "EDH" am I incorrect, and WOTC prints cards and has rules for a format called "Commander". Now while these two things are seen as a single beast, it wouldn't take much to bifurcate them in twain. If WOTC did decide to do that they could then ban all Reserved List cards and thus quell all the talk about abolishing the List. Two birds with one stone, but that would accrue an expense the company, and the current situation, don't require. A thought about silver, and gold, bordered cards. These cards are "not legal for TOURNAMENT play", yet somehow within the vast majority of players this equates to them "not being real MTG cards". Which is total BS by the way. That rule restriction only applies when playing in WOTC sanctioned events, in all other circumstances they are technically Magic game pieces. This is one of the big reasons for the switch to black borders for Un-products, the stigma of silver borders. I personally don't like it, but I understand why, as a company, they chose to do it. I'm willing to bet money that most casual play groups that aren't accepting of silver borders will give Unfinity cards a pass and allow them, another prediction. In a year of so out, someone should conduct a poll on this.
To be fair, these cards are Eternal playable (not just Commander) so they're automatically also Commander legal. The rules committee has as little to do with 'allowing' these as they have with black bordered cards in other products that are Eternal legal, which is to say nothing except the banlist. This isn't silver bordered cards being legal, it's Unfinity having a mix of silver and black bordered cards in the same set. 'Saw in Half' could just as easily have been an Innistrad card, for example.
I think the stamp was likely one of the better choices to still differentiate the uncard ls when... Every other card has a unique border or NO border. We already use the triangle stamp for universes beyond, might as well do Un-cards.
Some cards from the earlier unsets like Krark's Other thumb should be reprinted as legal for commander. Some of the other weird stuff like the half power/toughness stuff Icould see not being legal.
I get that people have confusion about certain cards, but whether its playable or not or how to describe them, but how many people describe white bordered cards versus black bordered cards. I bet there was some confusion at first, but given time will be a non-issue. Just call them unsets or the set they're named for. Like if I was trying to recall something from eldritch moon, I'd start with the set name, and work from there.
Lots of Un cards are perfectly fine in Magic. It's a game after all with wacky interactions as it's core mechanic. I do prefer silver boarders for ease of use, but otherwise they're just playing cards and I wouldn't feel any worse playing someone using them than I would playing someone playing a deck full of $500+ cards. Remember, even black-border cards are not "legal" once they are banned. Just talk about what you want to play with your play group first.
To be honest, I don't like that they make commander specific cards at all. It's the same thing for me as when they started designed cards specifically for draft. Killed the format because the whole point was cobbling some music together out of the noise.
It's not that WotC is overriding the Rules Committee in deciding these specific cards are going to be legal in Commander. It's that WotC is deciding that these cards will be legal in eternal formats they control, and the RC just happens to by default allow eternal cards. All these cards will work within the rules of the game, like any other non-acorn/silver border cards. The RC is free to ban any cards they don't want, independent of WotC, though at this point banning all Unfinity cards would be strictly for flavor reasons, not mechanical, and that would open a big can of worms as to what "real Magic flavor" is. If RC banned space carnival themed cards, would they be tempted to ban Wild West themed cards? That would put tremendous pressure for them to ban the Walking Dead Secret Lair cards, not only because they are mechanically unique, but added argument that they don't fit theme. WotC isn't forcing anything into Commander this way that they don't already introduce through nearly any other product they print.
It's when Mark said that the stupid stickers thing will be legal in eternal formats that I got pissed off. WotC needs to f off with all these extra whaling trips.
They could just as easily make both silver-bordered and black-bordered cards in the same same but they chose to make this confusing and unintuitive swap that will forever delineate a difference between this and other un-sets.
Break Open doesn't work the way you think it does. If it flips over a non-permanent, it reveals the card to everyone, then flips it back face down. It won't do anything
The test card, Spellmorph Raise the Dead is also ruled the same way. However it is a test card, so they can get wacky. On top of that, non-Manifested facedown spells already exist in Yedora, as it can turn dead manifested spells into face-down forests, and it works the same way, as far as I know. If this one isn't ruled the same way, I'd be surprised
I would like to build a few of these as commander decks but I still hate the idea of these being black bordered. I'll still probably say it's silver border even if it technically isn't. Because of rule zero making these black border is just stupid. Keep them silver
I'm looking forward to seeing "legal" un-cards. There are tons of old un-set cards that are totally playable in the commander format. I've always thought it was weird that they were so taboo in the first place. Obviously, the cards that require you to dance, wear certain clothes, or other un-set wackiness is frowned upon.
Honestly, for some cards I get it, some unset cards are just black bordered card printed silver border for the sake of draft, "Amateur Auteur" comes to mind, so making some unset cards legal is fine, but this push for adding unset mechanics like art matters, artist matters or stickers matters (the new one) is just ridiculus and pure cashgrab
@@kwakerjak the sticker one is pretty close and since they have name, art element, text and statline on the stickers, one might asume that all these will be relevant in Unfinity
@@synchi64 Yeah, but not all of the stickers will be particularly relevant in eternal formats. Specifically, I assume that the art stickers will have no impact on eternal formats, save perhaps cards that care about the total number of stickers on a card.
@@kwakerjak maybe, but we'll have to see the full set to be sure, but I wouldn't bet on Wotc not trying to make it legal in eternal format at some point
I really hope the commander rules committee is brave enough to ban each of these cards. This cards hurt our format, it's unlikely but I would love to see a huge ban
The fact that some sticker cards are legal really makes me scratch my head. What an annoying mechanic to keep track of parts for. There is even an app for it I heard?
Silver borders just wouldn't work in 2022 1st: we have way more product. People are not gonna spend money on a box of cards they can draft once and never play again. making them playable in commander makes them 100X more valuable. 2nd: the appeal of old un-sets was in the special cards, the full-art lands, now that stuff is everywhere. It has lost its main selling point. 3rd: the game has become a lot more open to silly cards. squirrels used to be a silver-bordered only thing, it was a ridiculous over the top idea. Now it's a perfectly legal archetype. Cards like Dermotaxi get printed regularly. We're gonna have official warhammer 40k cards. The simple reality is that people would not spend money on a set they can't play.
It's definitely a decision that was poorly thought through. They could have just printed the acorns with silver borders. The fact that they've gotten the acorn vs not acorn wrong twice in the limited spoilers so far already is awful as whats to stop there being issues at print? With their print quality issues overall being more prevalent over the past few years they've been gorging the playerbase with more product to push revenue higher and miik the whales. More and more decisions are anti player and it seems their idea of an average magic player is sliding further away from the reality
I hate when wizards does this as well. Unsets are funny goofy sets at do odd effects. Wizards hates that commander players only need one of anything so they trying to whale us into buying into a set we can only half use. Like the baulders gate commander set being almost all bad
It not being Silver Boarderd is fine. I played with Silver Boarderd Legends as Commanders before and true they get weird, but it is just fun to play in a casual environment like a LGS. I feel like people are throwing a fit over nothing, but this is the internet and modern day. Kinda all people ever do.
I really don’t mind that this set isn’t silver border, ESPECIALLY with regards to commander. Commander is all about Rule 0 and it’s really not that hard to just discuss with your play group as to whether these cards can be played or not, and having them not have a literal silver border makes them more likely to be played and gives more variety
They need to go through all of the old uncards and black border the appropriate. They pretty much reprinted hydradoodle and the cheese sounds alone into standard sets.
The second half of your video here is exactly why I think the Peral clutching in the first half is overblown by most people complaining about this. "They're overwriting the rules committee for profit! But also here's this cool mechanically interesting not overpowered commander that if it was printed in silver boarder would instantly be dismissed by the community and not be worth talking about." That's the point of making parts of the set eternal legal. Also the problem with 'just rule zero it' and 'if your play group is fine with it' is that only works if you only ever play with the same people, and it mostly on ever gets used for commanders and some creatures. I don't want to build a deck that has to be rule zeroed in and if anyone says no then it's just a pile of cardboard I can't do anything with.
Somebody told me that they are gonna make all but like a very small amount silver bordered/un set cards legal for commander. I forget the number and i can't seem to find where he got the announcement news. Honestly very few of these cards will be played because a lot of too gimmicky cards never played. Now if I can play Phoebe head of Sneak as a commander thats all i want.
OK. If anyone has saw the 8spicerack video about unset - there was an interview with mark rosewater about the last UNset - people were complainimg that they could not play the cards for commander because they were silver border. And that set was made for commander players, SO there are lot of people who having reservations to play silver border cards even in a casual setting. I think is nice to have a set that you can draft and you have some use of the cards. Are you really want to have a pile of cards you will never use anymore? No
Not sure why people care so much about the color of the border, this is my favorite un-set by default because you can actually use the cards The land art is also amazing
The biggest criticism I've seen that I agree with is that the Acorn cards should still have silver borders.
This
I love silver boarder I agree they should keep it silver bordered.
Counterpoint:
We should just allow certain previous unset cards in commander. The commander format is about just having fun and maybe we should be open to this change. Not saying I’m right just presenting a different point of view
I think it’s confusing too and there’s so many changes and cash grabs trying to make the eternal formats as big of money makers as standard was. People moved off of standard for a reason. I may yet move off of MTG entirely.
As the owner of a silver-bordered cube, I am the target audience for an un-set - and I absolutely hate what they have done with this one.
- Black-borders - This alone will exclude any of these cards from my silver-border cube. This was a needlessly stupid idea.
- Hologram Confusion - Not even Wizards can get this right, having spoiled incorrect versions of both Watergun Balloon Game and Magar of the Magic Strings. If they can't keep the holograms straight, how can the average player? And if the incorrect images actually make it to print... oh, boy.
- Stickers - Short of Chaos Confetti, this is one of the dumbest mechanics you could stick in a card game. I hate it.
So, will I get anything from this set? Certainly not a box like previous un-sets. And it would take quite the single for me to purchase. I think I'll just pass. There are certainly an excess of other products to choose from these days.
Everything you said 100%!
All I am saying is that it is hilarious I can bring a sticker book to an official tournament, and no one can stop me from using it in official play.
Remember when Wizards thought Hullbreacher should be legal in Commander? I wonder what it'd do if the rules commitee declared Un-set cards to all be wholesale banned?
I don't want that goofy Un-crap. I'm not buying a box of cards I largely can't use, let alone heavily inflated singles due to abysmal production runs. Say what you want about Double Masters 2022, I _built_ my cube, and I like the draft feel of that set (Imperial Seal and Shadowborn Apostle notwithstanding). This is like 2X2, but _so much_ worse.
First to clarify: Rules committee never made a ruling on silver borders. That's a rule from Wizards that those cards are not legal in other formats, and commander was just made using regular eternal format legality. So they're not circumnavigating around the rules committee, and those cards are also legal in other eternal formats.
As for my opinions, I do find it's going to be confusing to start. But I don't mind the idea. It gives Wizards a space to play with more interesting and unique ideas, without them feeling out of place in a proper set.
Been saying this for months on end, I wish there was an EDH format (not current Commander) where all cards legal were printed into standard. Those get play tested, they aren’t historically direct to commander printings, and still end up being mechanically unique and interesting. All this direct to commander product, rarity upshifts, commander plants in standard sets, etc are all ruining what once was an exciting alternative to eternal format magic.
@Anonymous Cheese Omnath Locus of Creation is a prime example. Clear commander plant ended up ruining a standard environment
6:07 - You make an excellent point. It's almost as if the design of this unset required some _seriousness_ attached, in order to ensure the product sells.
I get wotc wanting to sell this to commander players, but why overcomplicate things?
Just print the legal cards black bordered and the rest silver bordered
Apparently you must print everything in the same border color or the printing process become horrendous and costly.
@@MajraMangetsu they can afford it
@@efnfen I agree but the higher ups at wizard would NERVER let that happen and you know it XD
@@MajraMangetsu It's less a must and more a preference. Unstable was silver bordered and still had six black border cards in it - the five basics and Steamflogger Boss.
@@coreyroberson4550 Oh. Well, in that case, their excuse is absolute bullshit then.
There literally is no point in making them commander legal except for profit. It's not like you couldn't play some silver bordered cards in commander already, given that your playgroup is fine with it. A buddy of mine runs Earl of Squirrel in his Chatterfang deck for example. The only real difference is that people won't feel like having to ask their pod if they're fine with it anymore, which is quite the downgrade if you ask me.
There is, the rules committee, wizards said silver border wasn't tournament legal, EDH doesn't have tournaments (technically) yet the legality of cards in the format is the same as eternal formats... including the non-legal cards, which according to WotC it wasn't the intention.
@@Nobody-zl3kk I don't think you understand what he meant and you don't understand the difference between this unset and other unsets. By transitioning to the acorn hologram with black borders, they are specifically making these cards look like non-unset cards. The move to have them expressly format legal without having a discussion with your playgroup and having the regular hologram on the cards is only to push the product and sell more.
@@SHADOWCLOUDGAMING Did you not read what i said? they are not format legal because the rules committee skipped the part where WotC said they were non-legal _for tournaments_ in their tournament-less casual format, also the discussion with play group is anon-argument in this situation, you could rule out anything with rule 0 but that wont stop hard-heads from sticking to the words of the RC like fucking gospel.
Also, a company trying to sell product, omg how could this be? are these the end times? since when did capitalism become capitalist?
@@Nobody-zl3kk Yeah, I read your comment and your wrong. They literally came out as part of the hype for Unfinity and said the cards are "Eternal Format Legal". You're just wrong.
@@Nobody-zl3kk And your dismissive tone and reductive argument does nothing to actually address my point. They are changing the game to sell products. They are taking a product that has been a fun set for limited or sealed events and they are changing the legality of the cards and the way they are printed to make them legal in formats. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Saw in half already has tons of combos and potential. It will see play.
Yup going right into my wilhelt deck. Hit cleaver scab with it and go crazy with copies of cleaver scab.
yea im excited for it in my evelyn deck specifically cormella
Myr Galvanizer + Palladium Myr comes immediately to mind
I don’t understand why they couldn’t have the cards that would be legal in commander a black border and the others a silver border. Its actually happened before.
In Unstable, there was an actual black border card, Steamflogger Boss. It had been printed in Future Sight and they put its mechanics in Unstable. It would be easier to distinguish, and the cards would all still work together. Its not like the whole Unfinity experience would be ruined if a few cards were black border.
So not exactly, the reason Steamflogger Boss worked is because it took the place of the land slot. It was not printed with the other silver bordered cards. It is impossible to print silver and black bordered on the same sheet, as the machines arent precise enough to cut them perfectly. Now, to me this means they just ditch the black bordered cards. But instead they ditched silver bordered. So stupid.
@@MrContinuityError Yeah, it is stupid. But then again, its Wizards. They'll do anything that fills their pockets, even if at the expense of their customers
I have loved previous unsets. If it wasn't for the legal commander cards in this set, I would be excited for this. Shock lands will sell it anyways. I do not see the need for the extra confusion. I hate this set because of the stickers and holostamp confusion.
I looked forward to playing an Unset, never done it before since i'm qiuet new to the game. But i don't know, it feels weird how they are designing cards for commander while designing this set too, like isn't it supposed to be wacky cards that breaks the rules and is more of a party game experience?
An Un-set draft is worth doing. I highly recommend drafting this at your LGS with as many people as you can get; it's a hoot and a holler, and a genuinely amazing Magic experience.
The home of Un-sets is Draft. That is the only place they are good. In literally every other format, they are terrible and outright fail at being good Magic cards, and MaRo's bull-headed stubbornness at trying to force Unfinity into Commander and Legacy is going to eat metric tons of crap, and be seen for years if not decades as a terrible move with obvious consequences that a growing has-been insisted on.
@championchap ... Good?
Un-sets are fun. They are not a critical Magic experience, as Draft has been declining for years. Them going away for a while, with an occasional release, is alright.
I don't like that they took away the silver border. If you wanted certain cards to be Commander legal then just leave them with the regular black border. I won't open any of these boxes or packs. But I guess I'll have to order singles later.
Like commander players wouldn't be chill enough to let you use a silver-bordered shockland as a proxy anyway...
I don't like that it limits the creativity and wackiness of the set and makes for a confusing meta game experience.
I'd play Saw in half. I could also build a fun deck with Magar. However i can see where the rules committee has a problem with WOTC circumventing their rules. But I also see that this is just WOTC being WOTC, tapping into the commander market with each set they release. If that market generates the most money, financially that just seems like the sound thing to do.
The rules committee will never have a problem, they’re directly under the thumb of wizards and never make decisions that aren’t with wizards in mind.
@@Closer2Zero TBH i don't have a clue how that is organized. I always just asumed the rules committee was a seperate entity set up by MTG enthusiasts.
The fact that they tried to put a usable minotaur in this set but not D&D...................................
7:30 you can't flip them faceup at all, if they were to be turned faceup, you instead reveal it, and its turned facedown again, as how it was before. Turning them faceup does nothing. So break open is still equally bad.
where are you getting this information from?
@@edhdeckbuilding
701.34f If a manifested permanent that’s represented by an instant or sorcery card would turn face up, its controller reveals it and leaves it face down. Abilities that trigger whenever a permanent is turned face up won’t trigger.
@@ScorpioneOrzion Manifest is it's own keyword
@@Mecal00 well its basicly the same for any facedown permanent.
yeah i'm not sure about this. manifest is specifically it's own thing. they might have to do a special ruling on this card.
Magar of the Magic Springs can be made to be a Cedh deck. You have 3/3 that often will not be blocked, efficient removal, additionally wheels, and extra tutors. You can run Salt in Half with Duelcaster mage for the win.
I'm not mad because this is something I enjoy, but I understand why people are mad.
A set that is usually self contained is no longer self contained because of "greed" , but I see it as "hey commander players, you like doing stupid shit so here is a set that's known for stupid shit, here you go"
The problem is them forcing everyone to agree to play with those silly rules what if I don’t want to play with killer cosply what I’ll need to check now everyone doesn’t run those complicated un cards?
My playgroup already plays with un-cards. Excluding cards that require real life dexterity or "gotcha", they are a lot of fun. Frankie Peanuts just makes for awesome politics. Season's Beatings could be a real card, similar to Alpha Brawl. My favorite is quizzing people with Squirrel Farm!
I think the commander friendly Un cards are great, but absolutely LOATHE the stickers
the one thing you need to look out for in this set is the reprinting of Shocklands!!! I am super excited cause the artwork is amazing!!!
That will be the selling point for sure.
@@deeterful it's the only reason (besides full art basics) why its gonna sell.
I think it's fine. Products like Game Nights and other random supplemental products like Jumpstart have released new cards in the past and many of the cards have been fun additions to the game. Commander is a casual format and most enfranchised players will already know about the acorn symbol. I feel like this is one of those things that people will make a big deal about because it's different now, but in 1, 2, 5 years from now we will laugh that there was worry over this confusing players. Magic is a super complex game and the average player that player Commander can handle keeping track of acorns and non-acorn cards. I personally will still refer to them as silver boarder just as I still called it converted mana cost rather than mana value.
I don't mind they are playable. I mean they look like any other legal card. Maybe the problem I see is, why didn't they just print the unplayable ones in silver borders still and we have half the set black bordered and the other half silver bordered. It would be easier to understand and be consistent with what it was before and still allowing some cards to be legal
Perfectly fine with Magar and Saw in Half. It's the stickers bullshit I don't want on my tables. I'm not interested in people vandalizing cards.
I've always been a fan of Unsets. Having the black border, but with an acorn dot it fine with me. If the acorns are banned in Commander, what about the other game formats?
Would saw in half on serra avatar basically mean you get two tokens that are serra avatar (power/roughness based off Serra's ability not saw in half)
I'm really looking forward to seeing the glitter mechanic in legacy and commander from their next set
I'll be honest here, there actually does feel like a mechanical reason that WotC is making some cards legal from the latest un-set despite what it might look like apart from just money. Yes on the surface there is that point as well BUT at the same point there are always some cards in each un-set that feel like they could be printed in Magic sets that are legal for eternal formats.
If you take a step back and look at some things from a design space prospective this idea does feel like it's justified as some mechanics are added to the actual game. There are some notable examples like Krark's Other Thumb which works with Dice but was printed in an un-set so probably coupon be repeated in a legal set due to that so having to create another card that has the same effect but might not have the flavor of a future set where it could have been a card is something to note here. The example people are using with Saw in Half as a card that should be silver bordered could actually fit thematically in to another set that would fit it's flavor and function but couldn't be used because of it being a from an un-set and thus not useable because of being silver bordered despite being a legal card from an actual set then.
It's sorta WotC trying to future proof some cards while making money to some degree while not having a card like Steamflogger Boss be printed in a normal set then reprinted in an un-set.
I do not mind traditional black-bordered cards in an unset. It is another chance to print flavourfull, but non high-fantasy cards and it gives another reason to buy an un-set looking beyond drafting. On the other hand just leave traditional silver boardered as is and have to frame designs in one set.
Mitch at commander quarters went over a legal way to sticker your opponents cards
I mostly play on spelltable, and I’m doubtful the hologram stamp will show up clearly.
You at on spell table, click the card? It shows it at the side CLEARLY
@@MrWigz666 when it works, sure. That feature works maybe 60% of the time for me. I can also type the card names.
After Baldur's Gate I think I'm done cracking packs and boxes. I'll be sticking to the secondary market and picking up singles.
I played against a deck that had a handful of silver bordered cards at Commandfest Indy. It was a good time. That said, he checked with everyone first and it didn't have too much craziness.
Removing the silver border is pretty annoying. We're used to playing with full art, alt art, proxies, etc... They really don't need to be black bordered. That acorn holo-stamp is not a very clear indicator of anything.
The problem is the vast majority of players treat silver boarder cards as "not real magic cards." One of the points of giving them a black boarder is to try and get over this stigma the player base has.
I have two questions.
1) okay, for rare, you like at the hologram, but for the rest, how do we do ? Are we suppose to look each card up on gatherer or scryfall to know if it's legal or not ?
2) I see Magar as "legal" based on its hologram thingy. I see Magar's alternate art as "non-legal" based on its hologram thingy. So... what do we do ?
I really don't have any issue with this and I really can not understand the opposition to having more cards to play.
I love this set, looks awesome
The fact that they’re not silver bordered turned me off. Been buying every unsets but this one is a definite pass. They really need to stop with the commander fetish, its destroying every other format…
Totally!
To me, they should be printed in the silver bordered cards first, for the draft format. And if they want to print any of these for commander they should just create functional reprints, or maybe just print them later in a commander precon. UN sets should be designed around fun, and never made to be balanced into the other formats.
I had no clue this was even coming out
Wizards of the coasts are definitely annoying at this point
I will not be using these cards, but thank you for the info!
The Committee did try to legalise silver border for a few months after the last set and they went back cause it wasn't really practical. This is just Wizards looking at that experiment and saying "fuck it, we wanna make money".
Hello, can you explain the rules of the card "Tug of War" in Unfinity please? I am very confused how this card starts an what the rules are for it.
Surprised you didn't mention stickers which so far appears to be the most controversial aspect of the set
Stickers are the main problem. Personally, I'm hoping that the LGS' I go to will ban all "legal" sticker cards (since I'm not yet seeing any indication that the RC will do so); they have no place outside of un-sets.
I've never really cared about the Un-sets to begin with outside of a scant few cards that I own for the S&G's.
No one in our playgroup really cares too much about these goofy little creations either, but hey, to each their own. 🤷♂️
The rules apply universally... unless breaking them could make WotC more money. Then all bets are off.
If you have a face down instant and flip it somehow will it just go off or do you need to pay the mana cost?
All border and stamp and other weirdness aside, I’m really excited for some flavor includes for a Rakdos circus deck!
Magar goes infinite with extra combat spells. They dont turn face up. You just make a copy of that card.
It actually doesn't except for savage beating. All the other ones specifically mention being cast during the main phase to give you an extra combat step. Magars ability means you have to cast the copy immediately during combat or not at all. If you cast them during combat they do nothing.
@@meathookmassacre2438 world at war, and Brass's bounty/aggravated assault
@@PubStompMTG world at war will only give you one more step. If you cast it after your first postcombat main phase it doesn't work. If you have brass bounty and aggrevated assault sure but that's a combo that could be done easier with any infinite mana generator.
Performer tribal, let's go!!!!
Wizards jumped the shark a long time ago. I simply don't buy new product other than singles these days I can't believe an un-set is coming out and it's not silver border.
The rule committee should intantly ban the entiere Set.
I really don't like it.
I just wonder if noting the name has to be public knowledge. Personally as soon as maybe 3 or 4 cards are facedown this way, I will forget which one is which and I can see it as an unfair advantage if the opponent doesn't have to clarify which facedown card is a Sign in Blood or which is the In Garruk's Wake and I don't know which one to block.
In general, the order in which face-down permanents entered the battlefield (and thus which ones are which) is public information.
In practice, with this specific card, the "face down" part of the effect is there because it's the only way an instant or sorcery can be on the battlefield within the rules; the actual way people play the card will presumably be to put the spell on the board face-up, possibly with a die set to 3 on top.
you will know which card your opponent grabs out of their graveyard.
I never liked un-sets personally, but it was its own thing due to the silver border. Taking away the silver border makes them real MTG cards now.
"Un-sets were released every couple years" - Unglued 1998, Unhinged 2004, Unstable 2017. Unsanctioned not a real set but 2020, Unfinity 2022. They are getting closer together now, and with black borders, we will likely see more Un-sets at a higher frequency, my prediction.
"I hate it when WOTC exercises intellectual control over their own IP (paraphrase)" - last time I checked WOTC owns and controls the IP of MTG, not the Commander RC. The only reason WOTC hasn't taken over control of the format is because the RC curates the format for free. Otherwise WOTC would have to hire a full time team, but why do that when you can get free labor. At any moment WOTC could just tell the Commander RC "we'll take it from here" and from then on be in complete control of the format. Technically the RC runs a format called "EDH" am I incorrect, and WOTC prints cards and has rules for a format called "Commander". Now while these two things are seen as a single beast, it wouldn't take much to bifurcate them in twain. If WOTC did decide to do that they could then ban all Reserved List cards and thus quell all the talk about abolishing the List. Two birds with one stone, but that would accrue an expense the company, and the current situation, don't require.
A thought about silver, and gold, bordered cards. These cards are "not legal for TOURNAMENT play", yet somehow within the vast majority of players this equates to them "not being real MTG cards". Which is total BS by the way. That rule restriction only applies when playing in WOTC sanctioned events, in all other circumstances they are technically Magic game pieces. This is one of the big reasons for the switch to black borders for Un-products, the stigma of silver borders.
I personally don't like it, but I understand why, as a company, they chose to do it. I'm willing to bet money that most casual play groups that aren't accepting of silver borders will give Unfinity cards a pass and allow them, another prediction. In a year of so out, someone should conduct a poll on this.
FUCKING THANK YOU! Someone fucking gets it.
Just wotc wanting to control whats commander legal or not and circumventing the rules committee.
To be fair, these cards are Eternal playable (not just Commander) so they're automatically also Commander legal. The rules committee has as little to do with 'allowing' these as they have with black bordered cards in other products that are Eternal legal, which is to say nothing except the banlist.
This isn't silver bordered cards being legal, it's Unfinity having a mix of silver and black bordered cards in the same set. 'Saw in Half' could just as easily have been an Innistrad card, for example.
I think the stamp was likely one of the better choices to still differentiate the uncard ls when... Every other card has a unique border or NO border. We already use the triangle stamp for universes beyond, might as well do Un-cards.
Some cards from the earlier unsets like Krark's Other thumb should be reprinted as legal for commander. Some of the other weird stuff like the half power/toughness stuff Icould see not being legal.
I get that people have confusion about certain cards, but whether its playable or not or how to describe them, but how many people describe white bordered cards versus black bordered cards. I bet there was some confusion at first, but given time will be a non-issue. Just call them unsets or the set they're named for. Like if I was trying to recall something from eldritch moon, I'd start with the set name, and work from there.
Is it possible for you to make decktech about Padeem? Or artifacts in general?
I just want the full art space land
So, extra combat spell.. haste and Menace.. should be easy to do with red and black.
Lots of Un cards are perfectly fine in Magic. It's a game after all with wacky interactions as it's core mechanic. I do prefer silver boarders for ease of use, but otherwise they're just playing cards and I wouldn't feel any worse playing someone using them than I would playing someone playing a deck full of $500+ cards. Remember, even black-border cards are not "legal" once they are banned. Just talk about what you want to play with your play group first.
WotC is a small multi dollar company. Inflation made silver borders too expensive for their production team
To be honest, I don't like that they make commander specific cards at all. It's the same thing for me as when they started designed cards specifically for draft. Killed the format because the whole point was cobbling some music together out of the noise.
It's not that WotC is overriding the Rules Committee in deciding these specific cards are going to be legal in Commander. It's that WotC is deciding that these cards will be legal in eternal formats they control, and the RC just happens to by default allow eternal cards. All these cards will work within the rules of the game, like any other non-acorn/silver border cards. The RC is free to ban any cards they don't want, independent of WotC, though at this point banning all Unfinity cards would be strictly for flavor reasons, not mechanical, and that would open a big can of worms as to what "real Magic flavor" is. If RC banned space carnival themed cards, would they be tempted to ban Wild West themed cards? That would put tremendous pressure for them to ban the Walking Dead Secret Lair cards, not only because they are mechanically unique, but added argument that they don't fit theme.
WotC isn't forcing anything into Commander this way that they don't already introduce through nearly any other product they print.
It's when Mark said that the stupid stickers thing will be legal in eternal formats that I got pissed off. WotC needs to f off with all these extra whaling trips.
This card has like 20 one card combos and is probably the best ever in 1v1
If I get ANY UNcards I'll be taking a silver paint marker to their borders.
They could just as easily make both silver-bordered and black-bordered cards in the same same but they chose to make this confusing and unintuitive swap that will forever delineate a difference between this and other un-sets.
Put magic strings on saw in half haha.
Break Open doesn't work the way you think it does. If it flips over a non-permanent, it reveals the card to everyone, then flips it back face down. It won't do anything
this is a manifest specific ruling. so it doesn't necessarily apply here. either way i think that's a silly ruling.
The test card, Spellmorph Raise the Dead is also ruled the same way. However it is a test card, so they can get wacky.
On top of that, non-Manifested facedown spells already exist in Yedora, as it can turn dead manifested spells into face-down forests, and it works the same way, as far as I know.
If this one isn't ruled the same way, I'd be surprised
wotc fucking up left and right
I would like to build a few of these as commander decks but I still hate the idea of these being black bordered. I'll still probably say it's silver border even if it technically isn't. Because of rule zero making these black border is just stupid. Keep them silver
I feel like magic is going through a identity crisis
I'm looking forward to seeing "legal" un-cards. There are tons of old un-set cards that are totally playable in the commander format. I've always thought it was weird that they were so taboo in the first place. Obviously, the cards that require you to dance, wear certain clothes, or other un-set wackiness is frowned upon.
Honestly, for some cards I get it, some unset cards are just black bordered card printed silver border for the sake of draft, "Amateur Auteur" comes to mind, so making some unset cards legal is fine, but this push for adding unset mechanics like art matters, artist matters or stickers matters (the new one) is just ridiculus and pure cashgrab
I’m pretty sure art matters and artist matters can never be eternal legal because they might change with reprints.
@@kwakerjak the sticker one is pretty close and since they have name, art element, text and statline on the stickers, one might asume that all these will be relevant in Unfinity
@@synchi64 Yeah, but not all of the stickers will be particularly relevant in eternal formats. Specifically, I assume that the art stickers will have no impact on eternal formats, save perhaps cards that care about the total number of stickers on a card.
@@kwakerjak maybe, but we'll have to see the full set to be sure, but I wouldn't bet on Wotc not trying to make it legal in eternal format at some point
"Silver-bodered cards are commander legal"
-a wise someone
You just can't play them in cedh tournaments
"Why make UN cards non-silvered bordered?" WOTC: "I like money."
I really hope the commander rules committee is brave enough to ban each of these cards. This cards hurt our format, it's unlikely but I would love to see a huge ban
The fact that some sticker cards are legal really makes me scratch my head. What an annoying mechanic to keep track of parts for. There is even an app for it I heard?
Silver borders just wouldn't work in 2022
1st: we have way more product. People are not gonna spend money on a box of cards they can draft once and never play again. making them playable in commander makes them 100X more valuable.
2nd: the appeal of old un-sets was in the special cards, the full-art lands, now that stuff is everywhere. It has lost its main selling point.
3rd: the game has become a lot more open to silly cards. squirrels used to be a silver-bordered only thing, it was a ridiculous over the top idea. Now it's a perfectly legal archetype. Cards like Dermotaxi get printed regularly. We're gonna have official warhammer 40k cards.
The simple reality is that people would not spend money on a set they can't play.
WotC got tired of all their Un-sets just sitting on shelves
It's definitely a decision that was poorly thought through. They could have just printed the acorns with silver borders.
The fact that they've gotten the acorn vs not acorn wrong twice in the limited spoilers so far already is awful as whats to stop there being issues at print? With their print quality issues overall being more prevalent over the past few years they've been gorging the playerbase with more product to push revenue higher and miik the whales.
More and more decisions are anti player and it seems their idea of an average magic player is sliding further away from the reality
I hate when wizards does this as well. Unsets are funny goofy sets at do odd effects. Wizards hates that commander players only need one of anything so they trying to whale us into buying into a set we can only half use. Like the baulders gate commander set being almost all bad
It not being Silver Boarderd is fine. I played with Silver Boarderd Legends as Commanders before and true they get weird, but it is just fun to play in a casual environment like a LGS. I feel like people are throwing a fit over nothing, but this is the internet and modern day. Kinda all people ever do.
I can't wait to see someone in legacy/vintage attempt to place a sticker on their opponent's $1000 cards
You can only sticker non-land permanents you own.
I really don’t mind that this set isn’t silver border, ESPECIALLY with regards to commander. Commander is all about Rule 0 and it’s really not that hard to just discuss with your play group as to whether these cards can be played or not, and having them not have a literal silver border makes them more likely to be played and gives more variety
They need to go through all of the old uncards and black border the appropriate. They pretty much reprinted hydradoodle and the cheese sounds alone into standard sets.
I miss silver borders.
Lol, Break Open 🤣
Wizards needs to be stopped 😤
Just don't buy the product.
That's it. Don't buy it, convince others not to buy it, and Wizards will stop doing it.
(I don't hold out much hope)
@@delathenleso5793 agreed, the last wizards product I bought was modern horizons 2. Although double masters 2022 was tempting, pricing aside.
The second half of your video here is exactly why I think the Peral clutching in the first half is overblown by most people complaining about this. "They're overwriting the rules committee for profit! But also here's this cool mechanically interesting not overpowered commander that if it was printed in silver boarder would instantly be dismissed by the community and not be worth talking about." That's the point of making parts of the set eternal legal.
Also the problem with 'just rule zero it' and 'if your play group is fine with it' is that only works if you only ever play with the same people, and it mostly on ever gets used for commanders and some creatures. I don't want to build a deck that has to be rule zeroed in and if anyone says no then it's just a pile of cardboard I can't do anything with.
Somebody told me that they are gonna make all but like a very small amount silver bordered/un set cards legal for commander. I forget the number and i can't seem to find where he got the announcement news. Honestly very few of these cards will be played because a lot of too gimmicky cards never played. Now if I can play Phoebe head of Sneak as a commander thats all i want.
OK. If anyone has saw the 8spicerack video about unset - there was an interview with mark rosewater about the last UNset - people were complainimg that they could not play the cards for commander because they were silver border. And that set was made for commander players, SO there are lot of people who having reservations to play silver border cards even in a casual setting. I think is nice to have a set that you can draft and you have some use of the cards. Are you really want to have a pile of cards you will never use anymore? No
Not sure why people care so much about the color of the border, this is my favorite un-set by default because you can actually use the cards
The land art is also amazing