Jocko Willink and Dean Lister Talk about Benefits of BJJ, Grappling grips, GI vs Nogi
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2018
- Dean Richard Lister is a mixed martial artist who fought in the UFC, he is also a former King of the Cage Middleweight Champion. He is wiedly known in Jiu Jitsu community. He has also won in ADCC (World Submission Wrestling Championship) in 2011. He holds a 4th degree black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. He is an old friend of Jocko Willink (who is also an ex - SEAL), with whom he trains and in this episode of Jocko Podcast 137 talks about Benefits of BJJ, Grips in grappling, Self Defense in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, MMA, New Techniques (Leg Locks), choosing the right gym for you, and about his training now and in the past. They point out differences of training in Gi and NoGi and what should you train.
From Jocko Podcast 137 - Full Podcast: • Jocko Podcast 137 w/ D... - Sport
“No one tries to fight me.” - 6 ft 1, 220 lb dude who people call ‘The Machine’.
Hugh Walker who would’ve thought right?
Shocking, right?
I would have a dash
Lol!! Dude has muscles in his eyes. He could know Aikido and no one would try to fight him.
I get what you're saying but I've noticed the bigger guys always find more trouble from insecure people with a beer down them
I wonder just how uncomfortable jocko would be if he knew how many of us grown men fall asleep to his voice almost every night 😂😂😂
Good question
He’d say “good”
Naw all you would hear is "Good, wake up, it's your turn for firewatch"
I felt like this was slam poetry at first. Really spot on about BJJ love it,
Most of it is edited text from Miyamoto Musashi's book lol
the first 19m49s of the video is brilliant
Jocko needs to be in UFC 4.
Hell yeah
I can hear the boss music already
Jocko for President
Hidden character... like a ninja from Mortal Kombat!
I think jocko should be a color commentator for the ufc
Lister is the only man who can get away with making fun of Jocko for calling fatigues camies!
Yeah you should see them two roll, the stuff they say to each other is too funny man but at the same time they're training crazy hard :P
Civilians call them fatigues, soldiers call them camies lol
Searched for this comment before I made it myself.😁
@@micaylapresley That's because they aren't fatigues they are camouflaged utilities aka cammies.
Cammies is short for camouflage utilities. That is what Marines and Sailors call BDU’s.
Literally just saw Dean Lister yesterday in San Diego at TapOutCancer 2019. Understandable why no one picks a fight with him; his neck was thicker than the torso of kids he was coaching. Dude is huge. Also side note: awesome to see him giving back to the community
Nobody picks a fight with me either and I'm a wimp. What kind of an adult gets into fights anyhow? Maybe if you live in the hood. But I don't know any hood-dwellers.
@@JK-vc7ie people get into fights all the time regardless of SES. We are still primates regardless of how poor you are.
darklord220 Then why don’t I know anyone who’s ever been in a fight as an adult over the age of very early 20s? All of my family. All of my friends. All of my coWorkers. Zero fights. If you don’t think violence is higher in the ghetto you are totally clueless.
The first 45 seconds of this video was absolutely brilliant.
At age 53, Just started BJJ, Should have done this 30 years ago
After 7months of inactivity,finally I can train again.I can safely say it's not about the belt but the journey,knowledge and wisdom that I can collect until come a time where I have to pass it on to my future kids,we share one ocean and we call it "tatami",train and be happy.Happy New Year guys!! 👊
Thank you Jocko! I used this video to inspire my two sons to catch the vision on how Jiu Jitsu / Wrestling teach leadership skills for life.
U can make assumptions about how u would fare in a fight. But u don’t know til u do it. My first of bjj I realized that anybody in the world has had more than one day of experience then me on the mat could take me apart. It’s humbling. And it’s a feeling I couldn’t live with. It’s what’s motivated me to stay on the path.
This is why training a martial art that has real world application...especially bjj, kick boxing, boxing, wrestling...is the best form of self defense anyone can use. It’s not the skills you learn as much as it is the knowledge you gain about yourself...and what “fighting” really is...that provides the greatest self defense. Once you know what you are capable, what you aren’t and what other people are....fighting that drunk asshole starts to look like the stupidest thing in the world, especially when you can just ignore them, run away or avoid places where you will run into them all together.
Dean got that Batman voice going ..
Immediately got the BloodSport reference
Great 👍🏼 discussion.
This is gold
I was fat and happy the past couple years not very active and playing a lot of chess, I wrestled ten years of my life but got very lazy and didn't know how to push myself. I have grown to love how much wrestling, chess and jiu jitsu have in common, and they all have taught me things about myself and about the other disciplines.
Just finished my second class at age 52. I tell people a little humility is healthy and my ego is very "healthy".
I'm sure people who know you think that you have many good reasons for being humble.
It’s awesome, isn’t it?!
I’m a 52 year old 2 stripe white belt and love it.
Very humbling though....very humbling.
How are you guys managing injury prevention? Thanks in advance
@@thomasreiter2367 a 60yr old purple belt at my academy trains 5 days a week and puts on cbd on his weaker spots before class
I don't care how much better both Jocko and Dean are than me, there's definitely MORE techniques in the gi than in no gi.
This is true. That being said, with good sound technique, one can always adapt to overcome the differences. 🙏🏽
That’s true. It doesn’t mean it’s more technical though. Both require equal knowledge of technique in their respective disciplines
Echo Charles biceps scare me more than Dean Lister
Jiu-Jitsu taught me to fear ears more than biceps
Then you are a fool
Wow just found this guys channel. Is great stuff.
Great video.
Love the reference to "the way".
Loved the blood sport reference 😉
When you move from the military to give training. "Cammies to Jammies"
I used to train at Victory way back in the day when it was actually called Elite Training Center or something like that...it used to be a tennis club or something and became Elite training fitness...Dean was an instructor then along with a boxing coach Shannon whom I remember....I only did NoGi classes there but I was told by Kevin Husseini, who Dean knows very well, that Gi BJJ must be learned first...I went and trained at Fabios Santos for a few months in Gi BJJ but had to stop because it interfered with my Rugby at UCSD...I have only recently returned to Gi BJJ in 2016 in NorCal upon which I suffered a massive neck injury that took me out for 2 years...after healing, I resumed Gi BJJ in Arizona and just started doing no gi BJJ as a way to lose weight for an upcoming tournament for Gi BJJ....ok so my point is this, take both at the same time, one isn't better than the other, both can only make you a more well rounded athelete
I’m a Rexkwondo black belt
Crazy how I found a bjj gym and they told me to come in for a free class. It was No Gi night and the warms ups alone had me in sweat. Mind you I thought I was pretty good shape lol. Then we learned an arm bar and the rear naked choke from mounted position (first class mind you) then after foundational instruction for beginners was over I started to watch the master teach his mastery class as I got all the info on the price and services and the arm bar he taught was super detailed. He went through the reversals and everything. Instead of laying down this arm bar was leaning forward. I’ve been going everyday 5 days per week since
Update?
@Vinnie Angelo still practicing
@@takeprofit310 getting ready to go to class now. I’ve got competition on 4/1
@@mwithers13 still 5 days a week?
@@takeprofit310 yup I just did ground n pound after rolling
Excellent stuff, love it (being a few years into BJJ). I'd say all sports tell you a lot about people. Golf, basketball, football, tennis...all tells (idk running).
The closer you get to direct combat compares more directly with our primitive nature than any other sport, for the sole reason of how natural and primal it is. Just my opinion though, maybe you're more perceptive than I with other sports.
so useful thanks so much
I'm confused about Jiu-Jitsu always telling the truth. I've been a blue belt for over 20 years, and I'm okay with that. I give purple belts a run for their money almost all the time. My professor says my best skill, is how well I recognize when to tap. When I was younger and first started Jiu-Jitsu you would just about have to rip my shoulder out of socket before you'd make me tap. I didn't discover early in the game, that's not going to make me feel good when I'm 60 years old. My professor would be happy to promote me to purple belt. That sounds nice to me, but getting higher belts makes me feel the level of expectation required of me will increase. I just love training, and I think mat time is more valuable than a belt. I can finish most guys half my age, unless they're a black belt or brown belt or a 3 stripe purple belt who is half my age. Because of my age and my diminished athleticism overtime, I barely feel like I'll be worthy to receive a brown belt if I can ever make it past purple. I just love Jujitsu and I want to do it for the rest of my life, in 14 more years I will have been doing Jiu-Jitsu 40 years. I must be the world's slowest learner, but I'm having fun, and I'm doing better than anybody I know at my age. I'm grateful to God for my Jiu-Jitsu Journey!
thats nice to hear keep going bro belts dont really matter it's what you get from it that does.
Great listen. Just an FYI though. John Danaher is most likely the greatest Jiu Jitsu instructor on Earth and has never competed.
He’s got crippled legs, otherwise he would’ve
JOCKO FOR PRESIDENT
You can learn about someone by how they fight......reminds me of Ryu from Super Street Fighter 4. "The fight is a form of communication. It leads to understanding. It holds a meaning deeper than mere words". I imagine it is basically a lot of nonverbal communication so I can kind of see that.
Love both these guys, I agree with 99.9% of what’s being said here, except the Golf comment. You could tell a lot about a person by the way he plays the game of golf. Why do you think it is such a great place to do business? The way they play and approach Golf is the same way they’re gonna play and approach business.
Same thing happened in Minneapolis guy hit someone he fell hit a curb and died. However a friend of my brother put a choke hold on a guy and killed him. He cried as the judge gave him 8 years. So just be careful everyone. Also to Add it was his friend that he was as doing the drunk uncle technique on.
first of all the drunk uncle technique isn’t choking someone, secondly he probably choked him for too long
This is the way
Jiu Jitsu is the art of war
@@Emilianoo8 what a pointless comment
@@Emilianoo8 ?
Love it!
Mr. Berimbolo jiu jitsu is the art of peace
That's literally what martial art means
Good.
John Danaher is the exception of instructor that has not competed
I wonder if he would have become the instructor he has if he hadn't had all those injuries and could have had a normal competition career? It's like he threw all that competitive edge into become incredible at teaching.
Knowledge and Skill are not the same thing. I want a Teacher with Knowledge. That being said, why not both. John Danaher did live rolling with some of the best of the time, and all time, in his younger days.
@@murkartik He wanted to be a professor (of psychology I believe don't quote me on that) originally. Jiu jitsu was more of a side thing. Until his instructor asked him to teach while he was away. He wanted to teach. Jiu jitsu was just the perfect storm for that.
Subtitle, please
Proximity. Thats it. I'm starting a school out in the middle of BFE...
more humiliating... than DYING ? 😆
Yeah you gotta live with that humiliation 😂
For jiu-jitsu it's a purple belt level Gracie Baja can have permission say Ralph Gracie let BJ Penn instruct his class while he was gone.So many great topics you guys are covering Awesome!
Yes its true you can say all that about boxing too though
White belt here I love this videos
i think i saw dean lister on the history channel.. they dug him out of a glacier researching what humans looked like during the last ice age.
Was it dean lister that got Crocop into Juijitsu,,Even tho he came from Kickboxing background,Around the time when Crocop decided to go after Fedor and challenge him
At 3:36 I thought he said his teacher was one of the world's best rappers.
Real life application for guard-pulling;
Being a Correctional Officer. An irate inmate is coming after you. You know that help is coming, but you have to survive until they get there.
Are you actually a correction officer?? Because unless you have personal evidence that works, I’d have to disagree. In any situation where striking is a concern, guard is a very risky situation to be in (if that inmate so happens to break your guard, he’s going to ground and pound you. Yes help will arrive, but maybe not in time to save you from unnecessary head trauma)
@@czr4752 Yeah, I am a corrections officer. There is no version of that scenario that isn't risky. But, if you are in a confined space alone with an inmate who is coming after you, help is on the way, and you don't have space to get away, playing guard could be a good way to preserve your health until help arrives.
That isn't even hard jiujitsu. That is the "White belt hug." It is a good way to buy time, and we have seen it work again and again and again. Oleg Taktarov spent a solid 30 minutes with Tank Abbot on top of him and walked away from the fight looking more or less the same as when he went in, and he did that by playing guard.
How long do you think you could handle someone like Tank Abbot on top of you throwing punches? Not somewhere I would want to be, but if I found myself there, I would want a sold guard game.
@@occamtherazor3201 I see what you mean, yeah if you can hold them in guard, that will definitely work to your benefit. I am curious, do you think pulling guard on an irate inmate is less risky than using a very basic judo or wrestling takedown and mounting them?
@@czr4752 As always, situation dictates. From my (admittedly limited" experience, pulling guard is simpler and takes less training and athleticism than most any takedown. Even a simple blast double-leg takedown takes a degree of explosive power that many donut-eaters would find challenging....
But yeah, all other things being equal, I would much rather be in mount or side-control restraining aforementioned irate inmate until help arrives.
@@occamtherazor3201 Ahh, that makes perfect sense then. I did wrestling in highschool and currently do jiu jitsu. I used to be able to do double legs, now I even have to regain the strength and explosiveness to do them again. It’ll take some time but I’ll get back to it. I see why you feel pulling guard is the most effective way to deal with that situation given some context
Any footage of Joko rolling or sparing
R D look it up
czcams.com/video/ExCXJpV-jVI/video.html
Two men who have a enough natural testosterone to provide Vitor Belfort with enough TRT for the next 10 years!
I'm just looking at echos arms
I was at a seminar with Gene LeBell and they asked him what is the difference between what you do and Brazilian Jui-Jitsu and he said nothing it's just that I have less rules.
Maybe what Gene teaches has fewer rules, but Judo has so many more rules than BJJ. You can't even break a grip with two hands in Judo, can't grab the legs.
@@FelipeSantos-xq4tc
Gene LeBell started training in Catch wrestling (that has leglocks, neck cranks along with other exotic submissions) when he was only 7 years old then at 14 years old he started Judo. He also did Kosen Judo which is very similar to Brazilian Jui-Jitsu. He trained a lot of ground grappling and when the Machado first met Gene LeBell they said he already knew BJJ. LeBell then trained for 12 years with the Machados.
It's crazy to think Gene LeBell only knew Judo.
Why does he say that hand clasping is so bad?
GREEEEEEEEEED
Head scratch by Echo lolz
Why can you just repost this? *says guy who doesn't understand youtube*
I've heard John Danaher has never competed.
true. Apparently has/had a lot of phisycal problems. But it's pretty clear that his students' massive success speak for his ability.
He has a hip problem even before he found bjj
He's like professor X
@@Hshjshshjsj72727 and knee
Instead of Jui-Jitsu I say grappling.
JIU JITSU is a specific type of grappling based in chokes and arm bars.
fcs77 he probably knows this as I say the same thing. When you say jiu jitsu to people who don’t know what it is. It’s sounds like some karate kid, power ranger stuff, instead of submission wrestling
In no gi most people where belts to keep up there pants or just grab the waist of his pants. Flip his shirt over his head if he's stupid enough not to take it off.
This is more like a presidential speech.
Yes, Marines call their uniforms "Cammies." We also call the top and bottom parts of the uniform the "Blouse" and "Trousers" respectively.
Yeah, Marines are huge dorks.
The reality is in real Street situations there are no rules eye pokes bites even a pen in your pocket or keys becomes a friend jujitsu for sport and competition are trained differently self defense if completely different
I can’t remember a single street fight I’ve been in where I said to myself “ok I wonder how we are gonna signal the round is over...maybe that friend of his who’s telling him to kick my ass will referee for us” lol. But I can definitely say that all those years of wrestling, being in championship matches, winning, losing, training hard and getting hurt...made staying calm in street fights way easier. It made circling and getting the other guy to follow my movements easier. It made staying focused on keeping my hands up, chin tucked and waiting for him to swing a lot easier. It definitely made ducking his haymaker and shooting a double leg, lifting him in the air with his waist on my shoulder and the slamming his ass on the ground super duper easier than it would have been had all I known how to do was stand there and trade punches. Mixing some boxing training in with everything else in the off season definitely didn’t hurt either. Made seeing a punch coming before it was thrown a bit easier...most of the time.
Dean Lister been chokin' back those burgers... eat a salad...represent the art.
Bro, I doubt you'd say that to his face. Plus, I saw him, trained with him in July, he is not fat.
Haha, I just had shoulder surgery. Now I am 20 lbs lighter.
pulling down with all your weight making the pressure unbearable.
Hey guys Jocko wakes up his alarm clock!!!!
And what is new...
Boxed in the service but doesn't do much good in the real world, seriously considering this art.
You can get tapped out.. I can get tapped our . What's your point
John Danaher never competed.
Interesting podcast specially what he refers to as “the Way”...before early followers of Jesus Christ began call it “Christianity”, it was often referred to as simply “the Way”.
Even Jesus said it:
John 14:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Cammies = Camouflage utilities...
what sport isn't about "problem solving"?
Would love to know who disliked this video and if there was any logic behind their dislike.
Do u know da wae?
You're gonna need da whey
*spits*
2 Vanilla Gorillaz
Over 52 years experience in Boxing/ mma See. Boxingfitnesscenter. One word. On CZcams
Why do you always look angry in your podcasts the black and white is really throwing me off
You look like a mutant bro😆
Just keep your legs away from Mr Lister
Camies and Civies. Those are the only two classifications of clothing.
Forgot about PT gear.
Joko just stated that John Danaher is a fraud,a phony coach......lol
And for the striking the Boxing & American Kickboxing has no similarities to the Muay Boran and can be used to defeat all of the attacks when trained correctly the Muay Boran is devastating say in the clinch game standard Kickboxing and Muay Thai grab the neck pulling the head while knees are delivered ect.In Muay Boran turning the 1st hand into a fist knuckles facing behind the ball in the back of the head 2nd hand placing over the first hand supporting the two knuckles digging into the back of the head causing pain just from the hold nobody does that.
Ernesto Garcia
There are no Muay Boran gyms anywhere though :/
Is that lethwai, the bare knuckle muy Thai?
the lethwai ? I'm sorry I've only heard of the discipline that I have trained and Muay Boran was the style where is wasn't bare knuckle back in the day totally ,it was these white cloth strips rags around the feet ,hands; head ,and like this diaper made from cloth strips.Muay Boran is elbows & knees, palms of the hands as striking points not the knuckles and " whip kicks" the training itself is very painful bruising and nobody uses these ideas.This I could speak on because I trained it I can't speak on lethwai.
Gavin Masterson
Lethwei is actually closer to muay thai than muay boran, techniquewise.
Muay boran is basically the original muay thai and has more throws and other techniques than muay thai.
The fighting style of Tony Jaa in Ong Bak is Muay Boran, look it up!
Thank you guys, I will check out muay boran
I could say that same things about tennis (strategy, tactics, balance of power vs. precision, endurance, speed, etc.) and frankly most other sports. Sport, in general, provides many life lessons and actual tangible benefits for life in general. I don't see BJJ as any better or worse than tennis in this context. Plus, in tennis i don't have another dude's butthole in my face. So there's that.
But you can't make as many excuses.
All the benefits are the same in wrestling, expect in wrestling its better
Pao Ge Vang and that in jiu jitsu they can spell. Just playing mate, doing something is better than nothing
@@cameronzuni8858 lol did some bjj and its really not the same
I‘ve got experience in both wrestling and BJJ, you are right to a certain degree, but BJJ is so much more technical and tactical, in wrestling the more athletic guy usually wins, but in BJJ technique matters so much more. They are both great though, and I think the mental toughness you get from wrestling is something youre not getting from BJJ, atleast not to this degree.
I practice Jiu jitsu but everything he talks about can be applied to any of the five major combat sports: Boxing, Wrestling, Jiu jitsu, muay thai (kickboxing in general), and Judo, MMA (a medley of all of the above). I say this just to be fair to the other disciplines.
I think the biggest diff he says is the ability to train full bore with rolling whereas you can’t really spar full throttle with the others. Just my 2 cents
Let me just put this out there...
Royce Gracie only won the first couple UFCs because they let him in the cage with wearing his weapon on..period! Now, we seen what happened when he went against a wrestler "Matt Huges " without his weapon on. He got held down and his head pounded in relentlessly until the ref pulled him off. With that fact noted, just imagine if it was outside on the street. He'd have brain damage or eye gouged out or worse crushed bones. Either way the wrestler would of put him in the ICU..
In real life survival situations, wrestling is top of the Martial arts food chain.. there's a reason why ancient romans used it on the battlefield against a hundred thousand warriors. If you go to the ground your dead only controlled environments with rules is jujitsu the Martial arts to go to..
If you came across a few buddy's of mine "Carry Kolat, Nate Carr, Kevin Bracken " and tried to fight them on the street, you would not walk away. Rather you'd be rushed to the hospital straight to the ICU..
Why does this have to be an argument? No it's not him using his weapon, when ur wearing a gi the only way it's a weapon is it causes friction and u can choke with it as a jacket. Royce didn't use it for chokes. As for the Matt Hughes thing, clearly u don't understand the many circumstances of the match and in the wrestling department being better on the streets, refer to Jocko talking about what to train for the streets and Royce Gracie vs pure wrestlers when he was in his prime. Matt Hughes was a world champion and arguably the 2nd best welterweight of all time in his prime, using a combo of stand up, bjj and wrestling, saying that he could beat up a much smaller less widely trained man well past his prime is not the same as saying wrestling beats bjj, dan severn vs gracie is more likely a good representation of that. If u want to talk about amazing wrestling specialists vs amazing bjj specialists: Demian Maia vs Ben Askren? I just don't get why we need this argument: GSP, tyron woodley and Jon Jones all use combos of both. I think we should think more of how both complement one another rather than which is better. And that is perfectly. Both are incredible.
@@societybelike exactly. A GI is a weapon. Like anything else used besides your own body in a fight is. With no GI👈 and no rules. The wrestler would win everytime..
@@craigmeyers9137 but askren vs maia?
@@societybelike with rules and regulations... again , out in the real world with no rules. Wrestling is #1 fall on the sidewalk and try to pull guard against a real wrestler and you most likely will not get up..
@@craigmeyers9137 u realize not everyone in bjj just pulls guard, as mentioned by jokko in another vid, bjj uses techniques from both wrestling and judo as well. Standing subs and takedowns are used in conjunction with the sub game. And no, no matter how good a wrestler is, they won't beat demian maia in a street fight, as said by joe rogan and kamaru usman, it's way easier to defend a shot than to successfully shoot. Why do we have to have this discussion rather than point out the merits of both and how they complement one another?
Im a former Marine, it's camies... also Im cute as hell keep your l ladies locked up.
camoflauge + utilities equal camies
Lister exercised some rudeness calling the way real soldiers call bdu “cute”. He obviously enjoys the respect of Jocko but should reciprocate
He was a seal
Myles he was not a seal...he IS a SEAL. Learn the difference friend. You never stop being a SEAL. Just like you never stop being a Marine. I didn’t get your point though respectfully 🤔
They are bros dude.
guys poke at each other’s insecurities. it’s bonding. with these guys it also seems like kinda a dominance thing lol.
What about Fabio Santos, Jocko, you didn't learn from him? the other thing is that you can tell you don't have experience fighting in the street. I grew up in the street, getting stabbed in fights, fighting for my life, that is why Jiu Jitsu guys lose in the street , it is because you can't pull guard in the street when you have several people attacking you, by the way, I've trained with you and Dean, but Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is not practical for the street!! I have seen a lot of Jiu Jitsu guys take terrible beatings in street fights. I think it is very disturbing that you are pushing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu as an end all means for self defense, this is why I prefer training with martial artists from Okinawa where they had to fight against the Japanese swordsmen with no weapons, they understand this concept. Be honest, how many street fights have you been in throughout your life, or even as a Navy Seal, how many hand to hand combat situations where you had to face a knife or gun against your martial arts expertise have you had?
Martin McNamara do you have video of you beating a man armed with a knife?
So.... jujitsu is bad because you can loose against multiple attackers with knives?
Martin McNamara save some pussy for the rest of us tough guy!
Stop with the corny black and white background....we get it..you're a tough guy and like to say exceedingly overdramatic motivational nonsense so people will pay you money......alright dude.
100% would pay to listen to you say that to him in person
Some people have the cred to do such things. Not many people, mind you, but Jocko is one of them.
@@CJFranciss 🤣🤣🤣