Britain's Gift To The Soviets | When Rolls Royce Gave The Jet Engine To Russia, And They Copied It
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- čas přidán 21. 06. 2024
- In 1951, a Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15 was shot down over Korea's west coast and plummeted into the Yellow Sea.
The jet was pulled from the shallow water by US and South Korean forces and transported by a British frigate for study.
At a US Air Force base in Dayton, Ohio, the plane is poured over. One of the first discoveries of this incredible aircraft comes when the engine is inspected. Expecting to find a hybrid of Russian and
German jet technology, the teams studying the captured prize receive a shock. The plane
is powered by what appears to be a Rolls-Royce Neen II, designed in England.
The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15 (Russian: Микоян-Гуревич МиГ-15; USAF/DoD designation: Type 14; NATO reporting name: Fagot) is a jet fighter aircraft developed by Mikoyan-Gurevich for the Soviet Union. The MiG-15 was one of the first successful jet fighters to incorporate swept wings to achieve high transonic speeds. In aerial combat during the Korean War, it outclassed straight-winged jet day fighters, which were largely relegated to ground-attack roles. In response to the MiG-15's appearance and in order to counter it, the United States Air Force rushed the North American F-86 Sabre to Korea.
When refined into the more advanced MiG-17, the basic design would again surprise the West when it proved effective against supersonic fighters such as the Republic F-105 Thunderchief and McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II in the Vietnam War of the 1960s.
The MiG-15 is believed to be one of the most produced jet aircraft, with more than 13,000 manufactured. The MiG-15 remains in service with the Korean People's Army Air Force as an advanced trainer.
The first turbojet fighter developed by Mikoyan-Gurevich OKB was the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-9, which appeared in the years immediately after World War II. It used a pair of reverse-engineered German BMW 003 engines. The MiG-9 was a troublesome design that suffered from weak, unreliable engines and control problems. Categorized as a first-generation jet fighter, it was designed with the straight-style wings common to piston-engined fighters.
In 1946 Soviet engine technology was far behind the West's. The Germans had been unable to develop airworthy turbojets with thrust over 1,130 kilograms-force (11,100 N; 2,500 lbf) capable of running for more than a few hours at the time of the surrender in May 1945, which limited the performance of immediate Soviet postwar jet aircraft designs. The Soviet aviation minister Mikhail Khrunichev and aircraft designer A. S. Yakovlev suggested to Premier Joseph Stalin that the USSR buy the reliable, fully developed Rolls-Royce Nene (having been alerted to the fact that the U.K. Labour government wanted to improve post-war UK-Russia foreign relations) for the purpose of copying them in a minimum of time. Stalin is said to have replied, "What fool will sell us his secrets?"
MiG-15 General characteristics:
Crew: 1
Length: 10.102 m (33 ft 2 in)
Wingspan: 10.085 m (33 ft 1 in)
Height: 3.7 m (12 ft 2 in)
Wing area: 20.6 m2 (222 sq ft)
Airfoil: root: TsAGI S-10; tip: TsAGI SR-3
Empty weight: 3,681 kg (8,115 lb)
Gross weight: 5,044 kg (11,120 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 6,106 kg (13,461 lb) with 2x600 L (160 US gal; 130 imp gal) drop-tanks
Fuel capacity: 1,420 L (380 US gal; 310 imp gal) internal
Powerplant: 1 × Klimov VK-1 centrifugal-flow turbojet, 26.5 kN (5,950 lbf) thrust
Performance
Maximum speed: 1,076 km/h (669 mph, 581 kn) at sea level
1,107 km/h (688 mph; 598 kn) / M0.9 at 3,000 m (9,800 ft)
Maximum speed: Mach 0.87 at sea level
Cruise speed: 850 km/h (530 mph, 460 kn) Mach 0.69
Ferry range: 2,520 km (1,570 mi, 1,360 nmi) at 12,000 m (39,000 ft) with 2x600 L (160 US gal; 130 imp gal) drop-tanks
Service ceiling: 15,500 m (50,900 ft)
Rate of climb: 51.2 m/s (10,080 ft/min)
Wing loading: 296.4 kg/m2 (60.7 lb/sq ft)
Thrust/weight: 0.54
Armament
Guns:
2 × 23 mm Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23 autocannon in the lower left fuselage (80 rounds per gun, 160 rounds total)
1 × 37 mm Nudelman N-37 autocannon in the lower right fuselage (40 rounds total)
Hardpoints: 2 , with provisions to carry combinations of:
Bombs: 100 kg (220 lb) bombs
Other: drop tanks or unguided rockets
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30:00 Britain had several national atomic spies in their own ranks, who spied earlier than Fuchs, why downplaying this part and blaming a foreign person? Feels blindsided and arrogant to me, just to please the public.
Apopogies Accepted & Your Comments Noted
It wasn't Rolls Royce - it was the Labour Government.
Yes, I am sure they threw themselves to the floor and cried out "You'll never get me to try and make money with the second largest country on earth!"
Chinese jet engines are based on a licenced copy of wait for it. Rolls Royce engines too. Another Labour party policy for good relations?
@@MM22966 they were strapped for cash because none of the "aid" was free, unlike Ukraine (maybe we forgot to give 10% to the big guy?).
Yes, it was the government because they had to approve it and they needed the money but also Rolls Royce wanted to remain viable so they didn't go the way of the Miles Aircraft Company ( designers of the X-15) or if Canadian Avro (who solved supersonic wing design). There were others.
The USA is exploitative and it's imagined technical superiority was built on stolen ideas and solutions. This guilt leads them to accuse others of what they do themselves.
@@JLSMaytham Marshalll Aid didn't need to be repaid. How's the weather in Moscow?
@@jameswoollard84 But Lend Lease had to. In 47 it looked like they had to repay/return all
The most naive part of the government’s behaviour was actually thinking the Soviet Union and its allies would pay the licensing fees, they never did. Stalin had already been proved a deceitful person, if not an outright tyrant.
id say the most naive was thinking soviet union was anything else then an existential threat. same as russia is today.
That Mig 15 is still on display in Dayton, Ohio. I've seen it several times; fantastic museum. Takes at least 2 days to visit. ME-262, V1, V2, Bockscar, Valkyrie, etc. Overwhelming history in one place.
The picture of the B-29 and B-36 side by side had my jaw hitting the floor.
The difference in scale and ambition realised in such a short time is truly amazing.
That was an excellent video. My Grandad was WW2 pilot though he got his wings just as the war in Europe was ending so he was never commissioned.
He talked fondly about learning to fly in Canada and crossing the Atlantic on the Queen Mary to go to flight school. He was manager of a Jute mill which was a reserved occupation however when the call went out for pilots and having previously flown gliders he volunteered.
He was a great man and I knew him until passed age 94. He gave me my love of planes taking me to air shows and talking all about his experiences.
For that I'm truly grateful.
Luv and Peace.
But yet, the Soviet aerospace industry still did not fully take advantage of what the Nene engine offered in the long term, probably because it was a centrifugal flow engine, not the axial flow engine commonly used today. Soviet jet engines up until the 1980's were in many ways technologically inferior to their Western counterparts until when the Soviets were finally able to develop on their own full-authority digital engine control (FADEC) to develop engines like high-bypass turbofans for the Antonov An-72 transport and the Antonov An-124 large transport, and the engines for the MiG-29 and Su-27 jet fighter.
One of the problems the Soviet Jet engine designers had the hindered development was the turbine blades tended to break apart or shatter at high speed while the Rolls Royce engine had solved the problem because of the metal used had different alloys which gave it the ability to withstand heat and pressure , Some members of the Soviet delegation that were taken on a tour of the Rolls Royce plant wore shoes that had soft rubber soles and walked around the areas where the turbine blades were being machined to pick up the metal particles as they were embedded into the soft rubber soles of their shoes to take back to Russia for their scientists to figure out the composition of the metal, they did that in case the British did not go thru with the sale of the jet engine
It is ironic that an earlier foreign air force used a Rolls-Royce engine as well. The first German Ju87 (Stuka) flew in the mid 1930s with a Rolls-Royce Kestrel V engine.
8:29... Referencing the P-39 Aircobra when you claim it "aggravates the Soviets to be given older technology but they make do with what they're given." Never have I heard a more preposterous statement based on ZERO facts.
Firstly, the P-39 was a an almost radical cutting-edge brand-spanking new fighter designed with an engine behind the pilot, a car-door like cockpit entry, and cannon shooting through the propeller hub, just recently put into service, not some "old" castoff. The Soviets actually LOVED their P-39s. You correctly stated it was unpopular in the West because it did not fit the combat characteristics encountered most often there, i.e. high altitude interceptions. However the P-39 EXCELLED and was easily the equal or superior to any other fighter in the kind of low level combat and ground harassment that almost exclusively predominated in the war in the East. Don't even get me started on how they adored their American M4 Sherman tanks they received even over their own vaunted T-34s.
I'll give you slight leeway that perhaps you might have jumped to such an ignorant conclusion because the Spitfires first given to the Soviets were not the latest models. Didn't matter because the Soviets rejected the type as a whole as unsuitable for those very same conditions the P-39 and later aircraft of their own design excelled at. Too fragile, too narrow an undercarriage for their rough runways, wouldn't run well on Soviet low-octane fuel, and their pilots weren't familiar with wing-mounted armament. Using your example to broadly suggest the West of basically dumping "old" hardware on the Soviets is just plain WRONG. At a precise moment in history when ANYTHING was better than nothing, they actually received the best from the West - that was available to give at the time. I don't think there is a more beloved "Soviet" "fighting" vehicle than the American Studebaker 2.5 ton 6x6 truck, which many a soldier never knew wasn't home grown.
Absolutely right
THE RUSSIANS ALSO PUT THE MERLIN ENGIN IN THE AIRCOBRA
The Soviets also received the P-47, a aircraft with even more advanced technologies than the P-39.
It might have been a "radical cutting-edge brand-spanking new fighter design," but the US Airforce didn't fancy it at all.
Thank you! I was about to make a similar comment but decided it unnecessary after reading yours. You are 100% correct.
How was it not treason by Labour?
That charge gets sticky when it is the ruling government making the decision as policy. If it could be made true, what would happen to any government replaced by its rival after an election?
Socialist solidarity
So full of shit why wasn't OSS CIA founder Allen and John Foster Dulles's great love of Nazis and willingness to befriend 3rd Reich Industrialists and their interests before and after WWll Treason?? Not to mention all the other UK and American fat cat Nazi Sympathizers. All you conservatives are closeted NAZIS. That's the real problem.
This is a very interesting video, I did want to know more about this, so this is a perfect video!
Glad you liked it!
An act of madness, stupidity or high treason?
Well, if the Labour party was involved then it's quite possibly a combination of all three.
@@dogbadger😄😄😄
@@dogbadger All three.
All of the above
Just for the record, the U.S. had the same engine, including Frank Whittle, the inventor, since 1941.
Both were sent, in great secrecy to the U.S. back then.
Whittle's turbojet powered the first U.S. jet aircraft (Bell XP-59), but also Kelly Johnson/Lockheed F-80 Shooting Star, which proved inferior to the MiG, despited having the same British derived turbojet. Lack of swept wings for the F-80 is a good explanation of the basic inferiority of the U.S. aircraft.
The U.S., in Korea, rushed an axial turbojet powered aircraft, the F-86 Sabre. Britain also shared their work on axial turbojets (Metrovick)...
Here is a G.E. documentary, made in the 50s, about the events:
czcams.com/video/cOzE5GYhaoU/video.html
The Nene was a technological dead end and the world required these engines not as cutting edge technology but as stable machines for powering their new jet aircraft designs. The one thing you never want to try is sorting out the quirks of a new engine and the quirks of a new aircraft design on the same machine. So Stalin offered
gold to a broke Britain and the deal went through. As an added bonus, the Soviets later reverse engineered and somewhat improved the Nene as a stopgap while
getting their own jet engine designs sorted out. As to the origins of the Korean War, many members of the new North Korean army were tough verterans of the WW2 Red Army.
A very good explanation
We are a country who made the modern world .
Time 9:00, footage of a MK-1/ANT-22 flying boat is such useful fill-in, not at all stodgy filler.
The Chinese army was not volunteer. That is some significant misinformation.
thanks random internet stranger, i will take this statement lacking any citation at face value to heart!
And?
The USSR gave america the prototype to the f35 because they couldn't figure out VTOL for themselves
I think you need to be more coherent when you express yourself. you probably want to make a list of things that the Soviets copied (B-29, Concorde, Shuttle, etc.)
In July 1940 during a conversation with the British ambassador to Moscow Stafford Cripps the Soviet leader said that before the outbreak of the Second World War no Soviet-British rapprochement was possible as his country focused on the demolition of the 'old' balance of powers built after the First World War without the Soviet Union, while Great Britain fought for its retention. Cripps cabled London and reported Stalin's comments: 'The Soviet Union wanted to change the old equilibrium, while England and France wished preserve it. Also Germany wanted to make a change in the equilibrium and this common desire to do away with the old equilibrium became the basis for the rapprochement with the Germans.'
Again - “ England, England England “ obviously written by ‘ the English’ . I wish everyone would appreciate that it wasn’t ’England’ under threat - wasn’t the English fighting and perishing, it was the British empire and allies . BTW the uk isn’t England - would be nice to remember .
I'm still not clear if the then Labour government cabinet had to approve this sale of the engine to the Soviets ?
Cannot remember who / which company it was .., but as i understand it .., one of the ship building companys on the Clyde or Tyne sold ships to Japan in the early 20th centuary .., which included the engineering drawings ... They never came back ...
It was not Rolls Royce it was Harold Wilson's Labour Government
land lease and the benefit of location made the usa the ultimate wiinner of ww 1 and ww 2
Brits gave as the russians as the americans the same gift, both don't have at this time a developed jet engine yet...
Very bad idea given that they were never your friends, even if temporary allies during ww2
Thanks tea sippers.
You also can thank us for the jet engine, septic, and a whole host of other inventions that came your way.
BTW - technically the Korean War isn’t over - no peace treaty was signed, only a ceasefire. So even though there isn’t any fighting currently - there is no real peace.
Lavochkin were a better choice, the LA-15 was a better design than the mig-15
with other words: to reverse-ingeneer the most sophisticated jet engine and deploy it better than your enemies, you need to know what you're doing
The U.S. Marine Corp stated that if Inchon had been defended by a Crack Japanese Division. The Inchon landing may have been defeated.
Britain milked its Anglo Saxon settled Commonwealth Daughter countries thru war and peace.When the UK signed up with the EEC ,Westminister coldly moved away from Commonwealth Preference and accepted Brussels dictates,which set drastic reductions in foodstuffs et al previously imported from the loyal family over the seas.I would claim the damage done to these immature trading partners far exceeded the release to enemies of a turbo jet engine design that had limited potential in the long run. In fact ,a whole generation in these previously dependent economies found themselves with a falling standard of living and even current social disintegration ,and a low GDP and economic ratings that might be slated back to a grossly ungrateful decision to leave Australia ,Canada S.Africa and tiny economy NZ adrift in the trading world.Strangely,post Brekit,the UK is making earnest overtures to old Commonwealth acquaintances to enter into new trading alliances.But is Blood actually Thicker than Water?
No. Germany and the USSR were never in an alliance. A non-aggression pact with a time limit, for good measure, is not an alliance.
Another indication is that, when Great Britain declared war on Germany, Great Britain and the USSR did not declare war on each other.
Yes, there was trade and some cooperation between the two countries, but that happened between neutral nations as well, and to greater extents in many cases.
Correction: There was a big alliance, post-war, between the GDR and the USSR. So, Germany (half of it) was very much allied to the USSR. It perhaps went further than an alliance. The GDR could very well be argued to be a puppet state.
The Poles don't quite see it that way. The massacre in the forest has never been forgiven. Russia carried out ethnic cleansing to destroy the intellectuals to allow an occupation of their part of Poland. The Germans did similar. Russia committed war crimes and got away with it.
You're an another apologist for Russia? the Katyn forest massacre they tried to blame on the Germans. But the Germans exposed it.
Stalin committed war crimes and the British left found it hard to believe. Like their Chinese allies today.
HOW Come AT The END THERE IS [NO] BRITISH PLANES ?
We don't want to threaten anyone, Labour party policy, Unilateralism
If we declare peace so will everyone else. peace in our time, I have the signature of their leader. Next week war starts. 😂 Labour party shocked.
AT The END [IF you BOTHERED To LOOK ]They GO THROUGH The HISTORY Of AVIATION From The Wright Brothers & Pioneers /visionaries Of ALL AIRCRAFT Muppet. @@alganhar1
Bureaucrats
Labour prime minister Clem Atlee in 1946 gave 6 jet engines to Stalin with plans and permission to build free of any cost.
Considering the death toll that Soviet Union payed fighting the Germans, it was well worthwile to "offer" them a Rolls Royce motor.
Russians always copied from west but have more advanced ones..😂😂😂
Name 1 thing Russia hasnt copied lol
Vostok. Soyuz. There, I named two.
The turret tossing tank.
Borsch?
@@peterfable you forgot sputnik, but my comment is about Russia copying without shame, they copy more then they have done themself, and usually they fuck it up aswell
WHAT ABOUT [ALL] The THINGS the u.s.a. HAS COPIED LOL
likewise, you can give the best running shoes to any of your "enemies" -- if they cannot run, it's no use
A classic US foreign policy own goal. Rolls Royce was allowed to sell those engines because the British Government were so strapped for cash by US actions. We simply needed the money to pay for all the lend-lease.
Sorry for saving your Country.
@@briangray5921 Don't be arrogant. Britain paid us back every dime for lend-lease about ten years ago. And our ally paid us back in blood when we committed a war crime and invaded Iraq the second time.
Ah Yes. He was a traitor because of America. Spoken like a true Marxist.
@ryanreedgibson … exactly so. The post war Lockheed Shooting Star similarly benefitted from the British Goblin engine. The present day F35 (vtol version) also uses the Rolls Royce Liftsystem and F135 engine. Another ungrateful act was to prevent the US invading Canada in 1812. 😊
@@briangray5921 Yeah, like you saved South America, Chile, Nicaragua, Honduras, The Philipines, Vietnam, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Syria, Serbia etc.? Or "saved" Germany by destroying the civilian infrastructure of a NATO Ally?
Kissinger summed you up well "to be the friend of the USA is fatal".
An occupying, exploitative colonial power is not welcome so establishes 800+ bases in fewer than 200 countries that are members of the UN!
Yankee go home.
Besides, if you look at any historical data the Soviet Union defeated Nazi Germany, D-Day was a side show numerically and the USA adopted the nazi regime and ideology after hanging the ringleaders for public consumption.
You have nothing to be proud of
Your description of the aircraft that Russia received is nonsense
You mean the turbojet?
@@Dronescapes no under lend lease.
It was a clever move from the british to give the russians those outdated radial engines and made the russians think they got the latest technology. it took them years to develop the axial engines and even to reach german 1945 standart s(;-).
A couple of considerations:
The MiG-15 initially faces the F-80 Shooting Star (ironically also powered by a variant of the same engine), but it proved to be inferior.
The MiG was, like it or not, a feared aircraft at the time.
Nazi Germany never produced an operationally decent axial turbojet. The Jumo, despite years of development, was still disastrous, pathetically short lived, fragile, hard to operate, and prone to deadly flame-outs.
The Soviets, just like the Americans and the British, ignored the German turbojet after the war (all variants from all manufacturers).
The only serious attempt at making use of those flawed and over engineered German engines was at the hands of the French.
After the war they assembled 120 Nazi engineers and put them to work. It took them years, they had to radically modify them, and the sought assistance from an American partner in order to make a proper engine.
You seem to ignore the fact that Britain had been working on axial turbojets for a very long time (Griffith’s seminal paper on axial compressors dates back to 1926), but unlike Nazi Germany, they were not stupid enough to deploy an immature technology that would have been useless at the time.
Whittle’s centrifugal turbojet, had he not been delays by over 6 years and practically broke, would have been the perfect solution, and could have been ready well before the beginning of WW2.
He was acutely aware that the axial turbojet would eventually take over (in decades), but his aim was to give his country a strategic advantage, a turbojet that was easy to develop, and immensely more reliable than the axial turbojets of the time (the attempts at making a decent one).
By 1945 Whittle’s engine, despite endless years of being ignored, and initially developed with meager private funding, matched the speed of the Me262.
Imagine what it could have done if deployed when Von Ohain used a mixed axial/centrifugal engine in his Heinkel demonstrator (He 178).
Ignoring Whittle was an obvious fatal mistake on behalf of the Brits (Griffith was the sole culprit for striking down his project in 1929).
On the other side the Germans, despite BMW, Junkers and Heinkel working on a turbojet for years, and years (the German might), could not produce an operationally viable turbojet by the end of 1944, and out of desperation they deployed a great airframe (Me 262),:with a pathetic engine.
It is easy to understand why it was mostly ignored after WW2 by all key players. The Brits had already an important knowledge at their disposal,many happily shared it with the U.S., just like they did with Whittle’s engine as early as 1941, which powered the first U.S. jet aircraft to fly on U.S. soil in 1942, the Bell XP-59.
Short range was also another issue during WW2, relegating the turbojet to little more than a gimmick, and a waste of resources, but obviously Germany had to show strength at a time were the war was lost.
my information says sir Staford Crips gave the jet to ussr there for is a trator = to the other trators lokated in the fiftys ttfn&ty
When the Russians toured the factory, they wore sticky shoes to pick up the metal shavings from the engines production and the plans were handed over as payment for a pool game gamble, the Russians won the game.
Definitely Hypocrisy if supply Ukraine with Weapons were infuriating Russia
During the period of 2nd World War, Politicians of Britain was not so much crude or cruel as of today. Ethics, morality or conscience of Political Leaders or of common citizens was not so much degraded like drainwater. Rather cordial and heartfelt relationship among people of one country with another.
Only during and after WW ll, we see only US Govt. along with their Military Industrial Complex exterminating and decimating anything and everything including all types of civil infrastructures ; butchering hundreds of, thousands of innocent civilians in a planned strategical manner. Some psychopath and maniac people enjoy this horrible incidents with love, joy and unstinted support ! For them, the whole World today is being turned into moribund stinking hell ; not livable for gentlemen and people with conscience and humanity !
I love the language of Propaganda: what is the difference between a "virtual stalemate" and a "real stalemate"? Why the bombing missions broke WWII records, but were to weak to win the war, although the whole land was destroyes?