So, part of the reason you may not have felt a lot of personality from these factions is that each represents one of the answers to the Fermi Paradox (in simpler terms, the question of "if the universe is so vast, why haven't we found alien life yet?"). The humans represent the "early start" answer -- that is, humanity just happens to be among the first (or the first) sentient species to evolve. This also leads to another paradox solution which you'll notice was mentioned early in the campaign: the idea that life is unique to planet Earth. The Beta play into this, representing intelligent life just behind us in terms of cosmic development; moreover, they also reflect the "Zoo Hypothesis", the idea of sentient life observing less developed races from a distance, actively avoiding detection. The Goo represent a different combination of answers: the idea that any lifeform reaching out across the cosmos would need to abandon biology, and also that most or all civilizations destroy themselves (such as by developing self-replicating nanomachines gone rogue) before they can spread across the stars. The Shroud, meanwhile, epitomize one paradox solution above all else, the so-called "Dark Forest" solution: that the inherently resource-competitive nature of life means that an advanced enough alien civilization may well decide to take a position of preemptive strikes against all other sentient races, wiping out any civilization judged a prospective rival. It's basically a nerd theory battle royale, except playable. Grey Goo was made with RTS stalwarts in mind, sure, but it also is meant to appeal to the type of scifi geeks who will debate on whether or not the Prime Directive is a terrible idea. Sure, the game is a bit clunky and same-y, but it scratches a very particular sort of scifi storytelling itch, more Issac Azimov than Michael Bay, more Jean Luc Picard than James T Kirk.
Interesting. I like the idea that the game touches on the Fermi Paradox. Have you played Prey? It's a game from Arkane studios, they made Dishonored, and it touches on similar themes with its typhon enemy.
Nah, all factions just look realy lame from the visual standpoint: a collection of kitchen appliances on legs, a collection of hovering kitchen appliances and some grey bugs maded from ferrofluid.
One thing that pleasantly surprises me about Grey Goo is that the humans are the super high-tech race while the Beta are like the typical Sci-fi Terrans with mech.
I actually got interested in Grey Goo due to the Beta's con-lang (Constructed Language) - or rather that it HAD a fleshed out con-lang that wasn't just gibberish that units and characters would sprinkle into dialog/call outs. The guy they had make the language has some blog posts that went into detail about it. Stuff like Saruk (the Beta Main Character) speaking in a more slang way most of the time ("Let me go/release me!" -> "Let me walk my own road!"), that time is treated like a river/flowing water ("We are running out of time" -> "Time is stagnating"), and that the "modern" Beta language is creole of a few other previous Beta languages thus there are different grammatical structures and sounds that only appear for a subset of the language.
Fun Fact: Grey Goo is the term used to describe a massive consuming nanobot devouring swarm. Edit: the makers of grey goo are some of the people behind Command and Conquer before EA axed their studio.
It was made during the age of MOBA dominance and the industry had declared RTS to be completely phased out and replaced by MOBAs. I remember the developer saying that they want to take some of the mechanics of MOBAs and apply them to RTS to make them more accessible. I think that design decision is what left to it's mundane experience. Still better than DoW 3. The Goo was a unique and terrifying faction, the Shroud, not so much.
@@zerkil6304 Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. You probably know these games better as League of Legends and DOTA 2, but it's nearly always used to mean "games that follow the formula laid out by the Warcraft 3 mod 'Defense of the Ancients'". These games usually have two teams of 5 characters, with each character controlled by a different player. The goal is usually to "push" along one of three or more "lanes" that connect the team's bases, at opposite sides of the map, until one team is able to destroy the other teams' central building.
@@TurKlack Shame about them sucking the energy from you. I really liked the crazily mobile nature of the Goo. They really seemed like an alien faction, one that can move all of its base about and hide its buildings and freaking use them as attack units.
I loved this game when it came out and was disappointed it wasnt more popular - loved the South African accents for the Beta, such a unique species. This and Universe at war are my picks for hidden gems for sure
You mean unit blandness? I must admit that I loved the designs of almost all, if not all units. I like that the Humans aren't the usual industrial Terrans, the Beta have more or less taken that mantle, and the Goo and uhm "silent ones" Had some very nice appearances. (Frankly the 2 most alien species were my favorites.) I think the game could have benefited from more special abilities and sub faction abilities, (like C&C Kanes Wrath). But that was probably not in the budget.
I really liked the Goo's uniqueness as a faction, actually. You could attack with specialised units, sure, but you could just as well make a few Mother Goo units slither over an entire mountain and start tearing down a base from the most unexpected angle.
It's probably a good thing you waited so long to play this one. The game felt extremely lacking in content on launch for the price point, which probably helped to kill the game's community before it built any steam. By the time they released the Shroud most of the players were already gone and didn't come back. It's kind of a shame this game turned out the way it did, I feel like it had the most unrealized potential of other doomed RTS games. I also like its subtle connections to Universe at War, with hints that the Humans are using reverse engineered Novus technology.
I've heard that idea about it being similar to UaW, but I thought it was just that their aesthetics are similar and they have power lines. Is there anything more on that?
finally got around to completing the campaign. I applaud how different the base building is between factions but indeed the units and slow match starts are made of snore.
You know how you know you have to many games in your Steam library? When you look up the game thats in the review to add it to your hundreds of wishlisted games only to find it in your library already!
I did enjoy Grey Goo when it came out. Petroglyph did a good job with it, but it didn't catch on to be popular. It's cool you mentioned Universe at War, which by now you can only get through "other means" or eBay for a DVD, and it's plagued by the dead GFWL. You should definitely try it and review it. It's quirky and fresh off the success of Empire at War.
Second this. Universe at War's single player and faction differentiation was amazing. Something worth mentioning was the tutorial/opening with you using the Human units, it really brought home the intended situation at a visceral level. Your not just watching units be destroyed, those are the one's you are leading getting thrashed. Makes the theme work far better than anything else could.
I think it was a terrible, terrible choice to remove the game from any store. First time I've seen it I went straight to Steam, but couldn't find it. Whatashame
I did like Grey Goo when it came out, though I focused on the single player campaign. I would not have minded a sequel, and I did like the Grey Goo faction graphics and play style. As you are a fan of Command and Conquer, did you ever check out the Act of War series, and the spiritual successor Act of Aggression? I enjoyed both of those immensely, and still occasionally play AoA skirmishes.
@@Zade_95 Oof, you're trampling my youth! ;) If it's storyline you were disappointed with, I might suggest trying the original Act of War. The storyline was over the top and had battles in the middle of DC and such. None of the others were quite so iconic. The sequel, High Treason, was one of the few games that I've played that had Naval and Ground Units to scale, though the AI couldn't skirmish with Naval Units :( As for Act of Aggression, they did do a significant update in the Reboot Edition. If none of that makes you enjoy it, I guess I'll just go cry in a corner ;)
Loved act of war, hated act of aggression. Absolutely awful mission design. Never even finished the first campaign. Was going to give it another shot when the devs did their massive rebalance, but then the overhaul did nothing to address singleplayer. Havent hated a sequel that much since RUSE got canned for Steel Division.
The Goo is actually my favorite faction of all time in an RTS. I loved playing them and they made this one of my favorite RTS of all time. That and I remember liking the Campaign alot when I played it.
Yeah I was kind of disappointed in the game too. Felt like like a kick in the nuts of the RTS genre already on life support at the time. Any plans on covering Warlords Battlecry 3?
Grey Goo had a lot of really serious issues (very bland unit design mainly) and was just a little overhyped, but looking back I've nothing but positive thoughts about it. Shroud was a promise of really cool things to come as they actually differed so much from existing races. The setting itself was also really damn original without pulling out too many gimmicks. It's a shame that Petroglyph can only ever come close to greatness, and then stumble.
Yeah... They seem to be too focused on their "old glory". I never understood why they wouldn't make Universe at War 2. Or Grey Goo 2. Honestly I think they should stick with the "at War" Type of gameplay and further flesh it out. Only "boomers" as they are called nowadays I think, would ever want the good old C&C days back. So petro is better off completely ignoring them.
@@TurKlack I think it's just the issue of funding. Grey Goo obviously required a large budget for all the cutscenes but the sales were poor. So they had to step down significantly and make 8-bit series. Or work as contractors. Also probably SEGA and Grey Box own the intellectual property for Universe at War and Grey Goo but don't want to neither use or sell it to Petroglyph.
The main issue I had with Grey Goo was that the campaign was incredibly short. The main campaign has four Beta missions, five human missions, and five Goo missions. To compare, the first Command & Conquer has fifteen missions on the GDI side and thirteen for Nod, with two or three alternate choices for practically each mission along the way. Its main campaigns contain 49 unique missions; three and a half times as many as Grey Goo. I'm not a multiplayer gamer; I don't want a campaign that's just there as a glorified tutorial to set up the game for multiplayer battles. Especially if they manage to put such a deep lore and story into it, I want satisfaction. The story of Grey Goo is absolutely amazing, but is never taken to any kind of real conclusion.
In a post cgi world where cgi is everywhere and we took it for granted, grey goo was the first time in 10 years where i was actually impressed by the level of detail and realism of the cutscenes, especially on the Beta.
Fun fact, the term Grey Goo is a specific sci-fi concept. It relates to the idea of a self replicating nanotech bot swarm that eventually consumes everything on earth by consuming every bit of available energy into it's self replicating process. It's a kind of nightmare scenario that several authors have explored. Horizon Zero Dawn also bases its story around this concept.
I feel like part of the units being not-interesting is not so much in their function as much as their lack of charisma. There's no 'Squared away, Sir!' Or 'Jacked up and good to go!' The setting is more grim so the pep might be appropriately lacking, but I can't remember any quotes from Grey Goo, while having tried it again only a year ago. Edit: Yet again, I spoke too soon and it pops up in the video
I pre-ordered this game and was excited for it. I was, unsurprisingly, disappointed. I still have a soft spot in my heart for it, though. Some of the ideas in it were interesting, like humans being the hyper advanced race instead of the aliens, or the Goo faction's way of producing things.
The Shroud being the 'Silent Ones' also played into their units having no quotes as well was a sorta 'haha clever and lazy solution' to them gameplay wise. I do remember the game just being extremely slow .They actually said that the game being capped at 30 fps and not being able to speed the game up as a feature to make it more accessible to casual players. Which is funny considering years later they make a bunch of CnC-Lite RTS's with 8-Bit Armies quadrilogy which had a game speed slider and more fluid gameplay changes.
glad this was made as this really was the definition of an "on the fence" game when deciding whether or not to get it or not. the concept and cutscenes are unique and fresh and overall really enticing but seeing those reviews...yeah it spurred doubts. glad to see an honest down to earth review to solidify what the game is like and not trusting a rando. great work
Grey Goo's two big things are it's QWER hotkey system meaning I don't need to ever move my left hand from WASD area of my keyboard and the Goo faction being so different and fun to play.
Any plans for reviewing some more mid-2000's RTS games ? Some interesing ones could be Armies of Exigo, D&D: Dragonshard, Earth 2160, Rise of Legends, ParaWorld and War Front: Turning Point ?
Hey Zade, do you think we might see a Universe at War Earth Assault review in the future? I like the game and it has great asymmetrical factions. Thanks for reviewing grey goo, I now understand why it bored me on the Skirmish mode. Have a great day.
I'd like to see a retrospective on the Dune RTS as well as a personal opinion on whether it would be a worthwhile remaster or to get a long awaited sequel. I can't speak to it myself as I didn't PC game at the time but it's a game I always wanted to try.
I love Petroglyph's roots in OG CnC and their work on the Remasters, but I have to admit this doesn't do a lot for me visually. I definitely need to replay CnC 3 though. Also great video bud!
I bought it and played it, but ran out of stuff to do in no time and stopped playing after like 8 hours - all rts games should have an interesting 'generals challenge' mode. The amount of game time I have gotten out of generals zero hour dwarfs every other rts many times over because its so fun to replay.
@@123dmytro123 Yeah single player for me, I don't multiplayer myself other then co op with my partner. That's sort of my point though, since there isn't a long term single player mode the only people with thousands of hours in these games for multiplayer people. I like AI controlled 'mega bases' to take down similar to certain campaign missions (preferably with an option to bring a friend) and very few games put any in. The closest thing that I know of in existence is supreme commander forged alliances multiplayer 'FA Forever' campaign mode co op which allows you to play the very big missions with a few people and the map gets bigger as you complete objectives, sometimes taking an hour or longer to complete. Me and my partner cant stand going toe to toe with other players as it wrecks our nerves, we just want a big computer to smash. If they build it, we will come - and I think there are a lot of us that would do so, that's my real point.
Imo when I played Grey Goo it reminded me of the Game Earth 2160 by Reality Pump studios that came out in 2006. It seemed that all the unique mechanics Grey goo used were ripped from Earth 2160, while Petroglyph refined some of the rough edges that game had. The Eurasian Dynasty had basebuilding entirely around their headquarters adding pipe like connectors to put them all together much like the humans. ED walls were truly large and you could build a gate into it, or a turret on top that could slide around the wall reminiscent of Beta walls. The United Civilized States would build hub buildings, and then add modules onto them, much like the Beta do. Human teleporters are even reminiscent of the UCS Teleporter design. The Aliens of 2160 likewise skip base building a purely organic race that consume resources to clone themselves and evolve themselves into larger combat units, the Goo obviously used the Mother Goo to simplify the process but the similarities are nonetheless uncanny. While many mechanics seemed to be inspired by Earth 2160 Grey Goo failed to live up to the Incredible depth that Earth had nor the stellar UI Earth Used which is my favorite RTS game UI ever. The Earth series is worth a pick up and I would enjoy a review, unfortunately the developers are gone so there isn't likely to be a revival, but the games are insanely cheap and you'd get more than your money's worth for trying them out.
I really wanted to like Grey Goo. I played it when it first came out, and I remember initially feeling like the game didn't play smoothly, and it was definitely true that things started really slowly, and the units were *really* boring. Me wanting to like it so bad fully turned into a kind of resentment when I saw the first tournament that Petroglyph had people put on, and it came down to creating *one* unit and then trying to out-micro the opponent who had done the same to determine the winner. Because the game started *so* slow, reinforcing during an early rush was effectively impossible, and what was supposed to play out like an RTS ended up being a duel _every _*_single_*_ time._
ngl, this has been the only substancial piece of content on Grey Goo I've encountered, aside from a brief mentioning in Giant Grant Games's "why the next big RTS will fail" video
I agree that Grey Goo has some serious flaws. Petroglyph set out to make an rts without active abilities, and I think that really held back their unit design. That and the relative tankiness of the buildings, which I've heard was a response to the power of the goo's rush. However, I think a major part of the game's appeal is the titular faction; the Goo really take their game play themes and run with them. They have buildings that don't need to unpack and can climb cliffs to hide. All of their "buildings" are mobile, meaning they can simply disappear if they see the enemy approach. Their mother goos, gain health and resources in lockstep, meaning that building units actually makes your refineries weaker, and attacking them reduces their resource stores. This was probably a pain to balance, and I've heard the game has struggled to fit the crazily mobile nature of the Goo, but goddamn if it isn't a breath of fresh air. For a game supposedly made to recover the glory days, the goo is a faction that really takes risks; the only thing I can think of that comes close are the aliens in Earth 2160, who also had all mobile structures. Aside from that, I guess there's the Zhon from TA Kingdoms... and that's pretty much it. Three factions in the entire history of rts games come close to the craziness of the goo, and I hope someone comes upon similar ideas, cause they are a wonderful idea. As for the campaign, I liked that it all took place on one planet. Seems like a good way to ground proceedings and make things feel different. You can't simply charge up your ship and go to the next star system over.
It's sorta poetic and exactly the lore of the game. A game left Dorment after neglect, then the community gives it new life, possibly allowing a Resurgence and evolution?
I think the issue was how heavy the game was at the time. Slow loading, heavy on requirements, limited multiplayer to max 4 people and limited servers leading to issues playing within the same region.
I did like the game on release. It was a solid rts that functioned and introduced interesting asymmetrical economic systems. The two main things I dislike was the campaign was a bit short, not enough unit variety (the customisation options helps but also locks off the other units) and the goo was a bit micromanagement heavy.
I just found you have not done a video on Universe at War, the other game from petroglyph, I think it's a cool game, underappreciated. I would like to hear your thoughts on it.
im now rarely play skirmish mode when i want to play rts games only story mode unlike in the past maybe in the later time i like to play more skirmish mode
Dear @zade could you please provide the exact name of the game you gave the example with about the small scale battles. I couldnt come across Einhavest as you pronounced it and the game looks interesting for me to try. Thanks in advance
Bit late to the party, but completely agree to the points here. The Campaign was interesting enough to complete (though a bit tedious, as you mentioned restarting with a new faction made the first 3 missions or so felt extremely boring), but online multiplayer felt really boring. The factions also felt unbalanced towards each other, and while the game had some interesting things (The Goo themselves felt quite unique) at the end of the day, you are throwing random units at random units. Besides the units feeling bland in general, I also felt most factions had unit A, and then a more expensive but better unit B. The game did not have a strong rock-paper-scissor vibe, so most of the time it was just ''spend your money on the most expensive units you can, and you'll probably be fine''. Did also not help most units looked like each other, and that even the building selection was generic, like in C&C 4. I honestly dont understand why RTS insist of removing artwork to build units, replacing it with some generic UI that has the hologram outline of the unit. The game could not interest me enough on release to buy the DLC when it became available, and now that its cheap, I dont want to go back to it, which says quite something. Im suprised someone who liked C&C 3 was so enthousiastic about Grey Goo, cause while I wanted to love it, C&C 3 just felt superiour in every way. Great soundtrack by Frank again though.
you should do a video on universe at war, it's literally grey goo but better in every single way, with some of the best asymmetric gameplay of any rts i've ever played, it's far better than starcraft, even.
I remember playing that game being pleasently surprised by it. Critics said that the game was bland, but I enjoyed it for what it was. And the music still is pretty good for me. Too bad that Petroglyph only made games with cartoon graphics after this.
All they need to do is hire the dude who played Kane again and make a game with him being a villain in a Liberium universe and being named Bane and start in a story where some Aliens just invaded a near future Earth covered in Liberium governed by teo waring Factions
I love this game but you are 100% right about the skirmish matches, they start very boring! I wish you had around double or triple the resources when you start so that you can get to the action faster, and then you can start gathering resources while you fight with your units!
I thought conceptually and art direction wise this game was really interesting and i still boot it up once a year or so just to replay a faction because i liked the aesthetics of them, as well as the soundtrack. It's just sad how inconsistent/bad the AI is in skirmish battles. I rarely get an even remotely challenging game unless i just wait for the AI to do it's thing and attack me.
I have played every year since it came out. I never understood why it got so many bad STEAM reviews. Only thing I could come up with was it is difficult at times. Marked Ashamed made a valid point about MOBA game popularity and the industry bias vs RTS games in general.
GREY GOO LUL ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 2 GOO 4 U
RICKY
@@Zade_95 GREG GOO LEL
So, part of the reason you may not have felt a lot of personality from these factions is that each represents one of the answers to the Fermi Paradox (in simpler terms, the question of "if the universe is so vast, why haven't we found alien life yet?"). The humans represent the "early start" answer -- that is, humanity just happens to be among the first (or the first) sentient species to evolve. This also leads to another paradox solution which you'll notice was mentioned early in the campaign: the idea that life is unique to planet Earth. The Beta play into this, representing intelligent life just behind us in terms of cosmic development; moreover, they also reflect the "Zoo Hypothesis", the idea of sentient life observing less developed races from a distance, actively avoiding detection. The Goo represent a different combination of answers: the idea that any lifeform reaching out across the cosmos would need to abandon biology, and also that most or all civilizations destroy themselves (such as by developing self-replicating nanomachines gone rogue) before they can spread across the stars. The Shroud, meanwhile, epitomize one paradox solution above all else, the so-called "Dark Forest" solution: that the inherently resource-competitive nature of life means that an advanced enough alien civilization may well decide to take a position of preemptive strikes against all other sentient races, wiping out any civilization judged a prospective rival.
It's basically a nerd theory battle royale, except playable. Grey Goo was made with RTS stalwarts in mind, sure, but it also is meant to appeal to the type of scifi geeks who will debate on whether or not the Prime Directive is a terrible idea. Sure, the game is a bit clunky and same-y, but it scratches a very particular sort of scifi storytelling itch, more Issac Azimov than Michael Bay, more Jean Luc Picard than James T Kirk.
Interesting. I like the idea that the game touches on the Fermi Paradox. Have you played Prey? It's a game from Arkane studios, they made Dishonored, and it touches on similar themes with its typhon enemy.
Nah, all factions just look realy lame from the visual standpoint: a collection of kitchen appliances on legs, a collection of hovering kitchen appliances and some grey bugs maded from ferrofluid.
@@Scorch0017please share with us your portfolio of award winning game development
One thing that pleasantly surprises me about Grey Goo is that the humans are the super high-tech race while the Beta are like the typical Sci-fi Terrans with mech.
Grey Goo is a game I really wish succeeded so that it could have been expanded upon a lot more.
It was avatar but not bad
@@herakles6185 avatar?
@@mahlawn2808 evil humans attacking more primitive habitants
@@herakles6185 Oh! The movie! Yeah, all the budget went into the graphics and special effects for that one.
The setting they built for Grey Goo is so goddamn cool and interesting I'm sad that we'll probably never see it be expanded upon
I actually got interested in Grey Goo due to the Beta's con-lang (Constructed Language) - or rather that it HAD a fleshed out con-lang that wasn't just gibberish that units and characters would sprinkle into dialog/call outs. The guy they had make the language has some blog posts that went into detail about it. Stuff like Saruk (the Beta Main Character) speaking in a more slang way most of the time ("Let me go/release me!" -> "Let me walk my own road!"), that time is treated like a river/flowing water ("We are running out of time" -> "Time is stagnating"), and that the "modern" Beta language is creole of a few other previous Beta languages thus there are different grammatical structures and sounds that only appear for a subset of the language.
Fun Fact: Grey Goo is the term used to describe a massive consuming nanobot devouring swarm.
Edit: the makers of grey goo are some of the people behind Command and Conquer before EA axed their studio.
Amazing
Can I have theirs information? I want to look into their next products
@@MinhProjectManager Petroglyph Studios.
"So that others may live"
Singleton is the unsung hero of humanity.
His motto is actually the same one used by the US Air force special forces Para-rescue unit.
He’s by far the best character of the campaign, and really the only memorable one tbh
Did you play the end?
now a Goo commander
chad
It was made during the age of MOBA dominance and the industry had declared RTS to be completely phased out and replaced by MOBAs. I remember the developer saying that they want to take some of the mechanics of MOBAs and apply them to RTS to make them more accessible. I think that design decision is what left to it's mundane experience. Still better than DoW 3. The Goo was a unique and terrifying faction, the Shroud, not so much.
what does MOBA mean?
@@zerkil6304 Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. You probably know these games better as League of Legends and DOTA 2, but it's nearly always used to mean "games that follow the formula laid out by the Warcraft 3 mod 'Defense of the Ancients'". These games usually have two teams of 5 characters, with each character controlled by a different player. The goal is usually to "push" along one of three or more "lanes" that connect the team's bases, at opposite sides of the map, until one team is able to destroy the other teams' central building.
I like both of them, Goo, because Nanobots, and the Shroud, due to their nice almost relaxing noises they make.
@@TurKlack Shame about them sucking the energy from you. I really liked the crazily mobile nature of the Goo. They really seemed like an alien faction, one that can move all of its base about and hide its buildings and freaking use them as attack units.
Always wanted this! I’ve never been exited for a review of a game I’ve played already before.
love to hear it
Hold on, there will be another "should you play Grey Good in 2031".
I loved this game when it came out and was disappointed it wasnt more popular - loved the South African accents for the Beta, such a unique species. This and Universe at war are my picks for hidden gems for sure
Yeah, me too! Main guy sounds like Donovan Hock from ME2 - same voice actor?
It was released at such a very terrible time for mainstream RTS games and MOBA (both mobile and PC) stole the spotlight.
Blandness of Grey goo's units hit so hard so early, same issue with the tech tree limiting how much you can actually field.
yeah it does... F
You mean unit blandness? I must admit that I loved the designs of almost all, if not all units. I like that the Humans aren't the usual industrial Terrans, the Beta have more or less taken that mantle, and the Goo and uhm "silent ones" Had some very nice appearances. (Frankly the 2 most alien species were my favorites.)
I think the game could have benefited from more special abilities and sub faction abilities, (like C&C Kanes Wrath). But that was probably not in the budget.
I really liked the Goo's uniqueness as a faction, actually. You could attack with specialised units, sure, but you could just as well make a few Mother Goo units slither over an entire mountain and start tearing down a base from the most unexpected angle.
It's probably a good thing you waited so long to play this one. The game felt extremely lacking in content on launch for the price point, which probably helped to kill the game's community before it built any steam. By the time they released the Shroud most of the players were already gone and didn't come back. It's kind of a shame this game turned out the way it did, I feel like it had the most unrealized potential of other doomed RTS games. I also like its subtle connections to Universe at War, with hints that the Humans are using reverse engineered Novus technology.
I've heard that idea about it being similar to UaW, but I thought it was just that their aesthetics are similar and they have power lines. Is there anything more on that?
I find the slower pace helps people who are new to the genre. The hotkey display and default setup really help with that too.
This game was sooooo close to being a hit. So damn close.
true
Grey Goo has some really beautiful cinematics. Well worth looking up, imo
Absolutely - hugely impressive
finally got around to completing the campaign. I applaud how different the base building is between factions but indeed the units and slow match starts are made of snore.
You know how you know you have to many games in your Steam library? When you look up the game thats in the review to add it to your hundreds of wishlisted games only to find it in your library already!
I did enjoy Grey Goo when it came out. Petroglyph did a good job with it, but it didn't catch on to be popular.
It's cool you mentioned Universe at War, which by now you can only get through "other means" or eBay for a DVD, and it's plagued by the dead GFWL. You should definitely try it and review it. It's quirky and fresh off the success of Empire at War.
Definitely will sometime soon!
Second this. Universe at War's single player and faction differentiation was amazing. Something worth mentioning was the tutorial/opening with you using the Human units, it really brought home the intended situation at a visceral level. Your not just watching units be destroyed, those are the one's you are leading getting thrashed. Makes the theme work far better than anything else could.
I think it was a terrible, terrible choice to remove the game from any store. First time I've seen it I went straight to Steam, but couldn't find it. Whatashame
Definitely. This game is a hidden gem. Shame no-one noticed it back then.
I did like Grey Goo when it came out, though I focused on the single player campaign. I would not have minded a sequel, and I did like the Grey Goo faction graphics and play style.
As you are a fan of Command and Conquer, did you ever check out the Act of War series, and the spiritual successor Act of Aggression? I enjoyed both of those immensely, and still occasionally play AoA skirmishes.
Played Act of Aggression. Not going to lie, kind of hated it lol. But that was a while ago - perhaps I'll retry it someday!
@@Zade_95 Oof, you're trampling my youth! ;) If it's storyline you were disappointed with, I might suggest trying the original Act of War. The storyline was over the top and had battles in the middle of DC and such. None of the others were quite so iconic. The sequel, High Treason, was one of the few games that I've played that had Naval and Ground Units to scale, though the AI couldn't skirmish with Naval Units :( As for Act of Aggression, they did do a significant update in the Reboot Edition.
If none of that makes you enjoy it, I guess I'll just go cry in a corner ;)
Loved act of war, hated act of aggression. Absolutely awful mission design. Never even finished the first campaign. Was going to give it another shot when the devs did their massive rebalance, but then the overhaul did nothing to address singleplayer. Havent hated a sequel that much since RUSE got canned for Steel Division.
The Goo is actually my favorite faction of all time in an RTS. I loved playing them and they made this one of my favorite RTS of all time.
That and I remember liking the Campaign alot when I played it.
Yeah I was kind of disappointed in the game too. Felt like like a kick in the nuts of the RTS genre already on life support at the time.
Any plans on covering Warlords Battlecry 3?
That game needs to be covered! In my opinion the best RTS.
Grey Goo had a lot of really serious issues (very bland unit design mainly) and was just a little overhyped, but looking back I've nothing but positive thoughts about it. Shroud was a promise of really cool things to come as they actually differed so much from existing races. The setting itself was also really damn original without pulling out too many gimmicks. It's a shame that Petroglyph can only ever come close to greatness, and then stumble.
Yeah... They seem to be too focused on their "old glory". I never understood why they wouldn't make Universe at War 2. Or Grey Goo 2. Honestly I think they should stick with the "at War" Type of gameplay and further flesh it out.
Only "boomers" as they are called nowadays I think, would ever want the good old C&C days back. So petro is better off completely ignoring them.
@@TurKlack I think it's just the issue of funding. Grey Goo obviously required a large budget for all the cutscenes but the sales were poor. So they had to step down significantly and make 8-bit series. Or work as contractors.
Also probably SEGA and Grey Box own the intellectual property for Universe at War and Grey Goo but don't want to neither use or sell it to Petroglyph.
The main issue I had with Grey Goo was that the campaign was incredibly short. The main campaign has four Beta missions, five human missions, and five Goo missions. To compare, the first Command & Conquer has fifteen missions on the GDI side and thirteen for Nod, with two or three alternate choices for practically each mission along the way. Its main campaigns contain 49 unique missions; three and a half times as many as Grey Goo.
I'm not a multiplayer gamer; I don't want a campaign that's just there as a glorified tutorial to set up the game for multiplayer battles. Especially if they manage to put such a deep lore and story into it, I want satisfaction. The story of Grey Goo is absolutely amazing, but is never taken to any kind of real conclusion.
In a post cgi world where cgi is everywhere and we took it for granted, grey goo was the first time in 10 years where i was actually impressed by the level of detail and realism of the cutscenes, especially on the Beta.
I love that your example for "father's rts" was Tiberian Sun, the best rts ever made.
I remember playing this one at Gamescon 2013. So cool.
Fun fact, the term Grey Goo is a specific sci-fi concept. It relates to the idea of a self replicating nanotech bot swarm that eventually consumes everything on earth by consuming every bit of available energy into it's self replicating process. It's a kind of nightmare scenario that several authors have explored. Horizon Zero Dawn also bases its story around this concept.
I believe the name giver regretted to ever say that name. I mean it is a weird name...
I feel like part of the units being not-interesting is not so much in their function as much as their lack of charisma. There's no 'Squared away, Sir!' Or 'Jacked up and good to go!' The setting is more grim so the pep might be appropriately lacking, but I can't remember any quotes from Grey Goo, while having tried it again only a year ago.
Edit: Yet again, I spoke too soon and it pops up in the video
Yup, definitely agree!
I pre-ordered this game and was excited for it. I was, unsurprisingly, disappointed. I still have a soft spot in my heart for it, though. Some of the ideas in it were interesting, like humans being the hyper advanced race instead of the aliens, or the Goo faction's way of producing things.
Yeahhhhh - good ideas, but not a perfect landing that's for sure
The Shroud being the 'Silent Ones' also played into their units having no quotes as well was a sorta 'haha clever and lazy solution' to them gameplay wise.
I do remember the game just being extremely slow .They actually said that the game being capped at 30 fps and not being able to speed the game up as a feature to make it more accessible to casual players.
Which is funny considering years later they make a bunch of CnC-Lite RTS's with 8-Bit Armies quadrilogy which had a game speed slider and more fluid gameplay changes.
They need to have a talk with anyone who came up with Grey Goo as title. Seriously....
Lmao. Yes, I think so too
I mean, isn't Grey Goo a term about nanites when they become rogue?
yeah, basically. consuming everything, end of the world, etc :P
glad this was made as this really was the definition of an "on the fence" game when deciding whether or not to get it or not. the concept and cutscenes are unique and fresh and overall really enticing but seeing those reviews...yeah it spurred doubts. glad to see an honest down to earth review to solidify what the game is like and not trusting a rando. great work
As someone who loves RTS , this game isnt worth the time. The story is boring but you can watch it on youtube without the average gameplay
Grey Goo's two big things are it's QWER hotkey system meaning I don't need to ever move my left hand from WASD area of my keyboard and the Goo faction being so different and fun to play.
just got this in a Fanatical Mystery Bundle, excited to play it now
i hope ya do earth2150 games some day~
Definitely will!
@@Zade_95 nice.
GREY GOO LUL
!
Any plans for reviewing some more mid-2000's RTS games ?
Some interesing ones could be
Armies of Exigo, D&D: Dragonshard, Earth 2160, Rise of Legends, ParaWorld and War Front: Turning Point ?
Have covered Rise of Legends, and ParaWorld is on the list. Will look up the others!
@@Zade_95 Right, I missed that one.
I'd also throw in Spellforce 1,2 and Kohan 1,2 as suggestions.
Armies of exigo was so good!
Hey Zade, do you think we might see a Universe at War Earth Assault review in the future? I like the game and it has great asymmetrical factions. Thanks for reviewing grey goo, I now understand why it bored me on the Skirmish mode. Have a great day.
Yup! Not sure when, but it's on my radar for sure. You too!
I'd like to see a retrospective on the Dune RTS as well as a personal opinion on whether it would be a worthwhile remaster or to get a long awaited sequel. I can't speak to it myself as I didn't PC game at the time but it's a game I always wanted to try.
Will happen for sure, just not sure when right now :)
I love Petroglyph's roots in OG CnC and their work on the Remasters, but I have to admit this doesn't do a lot for me visually. I definitely need to replay CnC 3 though.
Also great video bud!
Thanks ghosty, gotta get you on for a vidya sometime :)
@@Zade_95 Hell yeah, sounds like fun my guy!
Grey goo lul
!!!
I bought it and played it, but ran out of stuff to do in no time and stopped playing after like 8 hours - all rts games should have an interesting 'generals challenge' mode. The amount of game time I have gotten out of generals zero hour dwarfs every other rts many times over because its so fun to replay.
You mean single player specifically ? Because a lot of people who have thousands of hours into certain rts usually play multi player.
@@123dmytro123 Yeah single player for me, I don't multiplayer myself other then co op with my partner.
That's sort of my point though, since there isn't a long term single player mode the only people with thousands of hours in these games for multiplayer people.
I like AI controlled 'mega bases' to take down similar to certain campaign missions (preferably with an option to bring a friend) and very few games put any in.
The closest thing that I know of in existence is supreme commander forged alliances multiplayer 'FA Forever' campaign mode co op which allows you to play the very big missions with a few people and the map gets bigger as you complete objectives, sometimes taking an hour or longer to complete.
Me and my partner cant stand going toe to toe with other players as it wrecks our nerves, we just want a big computer to smash.
If they build it, we will come - and I think there are a lot of us that would do so, that's my real point.
I think one of the biggest obstacle against grey goo's success is the release of the Legacy if the Void campaign for Starcraft II in the same year.
Imo when I played Grey Goo it reminded me of the Game Earth 2160 by Reality Pump studios that came out in 2006. It seemed that all the unique mechanics Grey goo used were ripped from Earth 2160, while Petroglyph refined some of the rough edges that game had. The Eurasian Dynasty had basebuilding entirely around their headquarters adding pipe like connectors to put them all together much like the humans. ED walls were truly large and you could build a gate into it, or a turret on top that could slide around the wall reminiscent of Beta walls. The United Civilized States would build hub buildings, and then add modules onto them, much like the Beta do. Human teleporters are even reminiscent of the UCS Teleporter design. The Aliens of 2160 likewise skip base building a purely organic race that consume resources to clone themselves and evolve themselves into larger combat units, the Goo obviously used the Mother Goo to simplify the process but the similarities are nonetheless uncanny. While many mechanics seemed to be inspired by Earth 2160 Grey Goo failed to live up to the Incredible depth that Earth had nor the stellar UI Earth Used which is my favorite RTS game UI ever.
The Earth series is worth a pick up and I would enjoy a review, unfortunately the developers are gone so there isn't likely to be a revival, but the games are insanely cheap and you'd get more than your money's worth for trying them out.
I smell a Earth 2160 inspiration
I really wanted to like Grey Goo. I played it when it first came out, and I remember initially feeling like the game didn't play smoothly, and it was definitely true that things started really slowly, and the units were *really* boring.
Me wanting to like it so bad fully turned into a kind of resentment when I saw the first tournament that Petroglyph had people put on, and it came down to creating *one* unit and then trying to out-micro the opponent who had done the same to determine the winner.
Because the game started *so* slow, reinforcing during an early rush was effectively impossible, and what was supposed to play out like an RTS ended up being a duel _every _*_single_*_ time._
“Greg Goo lol” - was literally my reaction when this game was steam gifted to me from my mate.
😂
ngl, this has been the only substancial piece of content on Grey Goo I've encountered, aside from a brief mentioning in Giant Grant Games's "why the next big RTS will fail" video
That's a title I never would've considered looking up if not for your vid. Looks like it only needs a "build time/3 patch" to be viable.
I played through the campaign a year or so back, enjoyed it a fair bit. However nothing about it made me want to keep playing after the campaign.
About the same for me too!
I agree that Grey Goo has some serious flaws. Petroglyph set out to make an rts without active abilities, and I think that really held back their unit design. That and the relative tankiness of the buildings, which I've heard was a response to the power of the goo's rush. However, I think a major part of the game's appeal is the titular faction; the Goo really take their game play themes and run with them. They have buildings that don't need to unpack and can climb cliffs to hide. All of their "buildings" are mobile, meaning they can simply disappear if they see the enemy approach. Their mother goos, gain health and resources in lockstep, meaning that building units actually makes your refineries weaker, and attacking them reduces their resource stores. This was probably a pain to balance, and I've heard the game has struggled to fit the crazily mobile nature of the Goo, but goddamn if it isn't a breath of fresh air. For a game supposedly made to recover the glory days, the goo is a faction that really takes risks; the only thing I can think of that comes close are the aliens in Earth 2160, who also had all mobile structures. Aside from that, I guess there's the Zhon from TA Kingdoms... and that's pretty much it. Three factions in the entire history of rts games come close to the craziness of the goo, and I hope someone comes upon similar ideas, cause they are a wonderful idea.
As for the campaign, I liked that it all took place on one planet. Seems like a good way to ground proceedings and make things feel different. You can't simply charge up your ship and go to the next star system over.
It's sorta poetic and exactly the lore of the game. A game left Dorment after neglect, then the community gives it new life, possibly allowing a Resurgence and evolution?
I think the issue was how heavy the game was at the time. Slow loading, heavy on requirements, limited multiplayer to max 4 people and limited servers leading to issues playing within the same region.
I loved Grey Goo, but it just had no staying power i think. However i did really love the fact that the humans were the super advanced guys.
My man Ricky :blokefish: ❤
Looks worth picking up when on sale
yeah i reckon so
1:58 Good ol Model F XT
I do, but it played really weirdly.. The goo gameplay should have been the most fun but I recall it being the hardest to learn..
Very rip,
Deposits are actually infinite, its just that most of it get depelted after a little while.
bad end
GREAT beginning
better cutscenes than 2023 olllllllllllllllll
I did like the game on release. It was a solid rts that functioned and introduced interesting asymmetrical economic systems. The two main things I dislike was the campaign was a bit short, not enough unit variety (the customisation options helps but also locks off the other units) and the goo was a bit micromanagement heavy.
Universe at War and Star Wars RTS by petroglyph was their peak.
Any plans on looking at Earth 2140, Ground Control, Mayday or Act of War(or even Agression)?
Thanks for the review, I personally found grey goo decent but lacking in content. I feel they could have done more with the setting and factions.
Big agree
I like Ricky's passion! 😀
me too, what a king
I just found you have not done a video on Universe at War, the other game from petroglyph, I think it's a cool game, underappreciated. I would like to hear your thoughts on it.
i remember. i reinstalled it since 2017
im now rarely play skirmish mode when i want to play rts games only story mode unlike in the past maybe in the later time i like to play more skirmish mode
Sounds like Lego Mars Mission with extra steps
loving your videos
thank you ♥️
Grey Goo is worth playing, but I felt the base building was a bit too complex to be enjoyable and the units were very homogenous in appearance.
You mentioned iron harvest, subscribed
♥️♥️
Grey goo is only a weird name for those who don't read science fiction or AI related science papers.
Lmao yes I couldn't agree more
Dear @zade could you please provide the exact name of the game you gave the example with about the small scale battles. I couldnt come across Einhavest as you pronounced it and the game looks interesting for me to try. Thanks in advance
Iron Harvest? Hope that's the one!
I still do love this game
the gameplay feel really smooth, looks good too, but I don't like the unit design so I didn't play much
Bit late to the party, but completely agree to the points here. The Campaign was interesting enough to complete (though a bit tedious, as you mentioned restarting with a new faction made the first 3 missions or so felt extremely boring), but online multiplayer felt really boring. The factions also felt unbalanced towards each other, and while the game had some interesting things (The Goo themselves felt quite unique) at the end of the day, you are throwing random units at random units. Besides the units feeling bland in general, I also felt most factions had unit A, and then a more expensive but better unit B. The game did not have a strong rock-paper-scissor vibe, so most of the time it was just ''spend your money on the most expensive units you can, and you'll probably be fine''. Did also not help most units looked like each other, and that even the building selection was generic, like in C&C 4. I honestly dont understand why RTS insist of removing artwork to build units, replacing it with some generic UI that has the hologram outline of the unit. The game could not interest me enough on release to buy the DLC when it became available, and now that its cheap, I dont want to go back to it, which says quite something. Im suprised someone who liked C&C 3 was so enthousiastic about Grey Goo, cause while I wanted to love it, C&C 3 just felt superiour in every way. Great soundtrack by Frank again though.
you should do a video on universe at war, it's literally grey goo but better in every single way, with some of the best asymmetric gameplay of any rts i've ever played, it's far better than starcraft, even.
I remember playing that game being pleasently surprised by it. Critics said that the game was bland, but I enjoyed it for what it was. And the music still is pretty good for me. Too bad that Petroglyph only made games with cartoon graphics after this.
Well they played it safe I guess
All they need to do is hire the dude who played Kane again and make a game with him being a villain in a Liberium universe and being named Bane and start in a story where some Aliens just invaded a near future Earth covered in Liberium governed by teo waring Factions
I love this game but you are 100% right about the skirmish matches, they start very boring! I wish you had around double or triple the resources when you start so that you can get to the action faster, and then you can start gathering resources while you fight with your units!
But am so tierd of paper rock scissors gameplay RTS
Yeah I wouldn't mind a change up either!
Ha. I know Ricky from X4 Foundation. Funny how the world is connected sometimes.
absolute LAD
Have you thought of trying AI Wars 2? It is a hybrid rts which boasts of having best enemy AI ever.
Hmm, I haven't! Will try :)
It's definitely one of the most wildly asymmetrical games out there in the genre.
never heard of it, looks really cool tho
I think the main issue with the games is it tried to be a starcraft game that is console accessible.
Exactly. Consoles ruining another game
I thought conceptually and art direction wise this game was really interesting and i still boot it up once a year or so just to replay a faction because i liked the aesthetics of them, as well as the soundtrack.
It's just sad how inconsistent/bad the AI is in skirmish battles. I rarely get an even remotely challenging game unless i just wait for the AI to do it's thing and attack me.
I loved Universe at war;)
I never played it, but it's on the list!
Grey Goo was the greatest RTS game ever made. I am looking forward to Crossfire: Legion. Same type of game.
Greatest ever made lmao . Starcraft doesent even know its name
@@AbuHajarAlBugatti Starcraft and Warcraft are too cartoony.
@@AbuHajarAlBugatti GreyGoo had 4 factions: Goo, Human, Beta, and Shroud.
For me StarCraft 1 had the best art style and general vibe.
Doesn't hold a candle to Dawn of War
I have played every year since it came out. I never understood why it got so many bad STEAM reviews. Only thing I could come up with was it is difficult at times. Marked Ashamed made a valid point about MOBA game popularity and the industry bias vs RTS games in general.
I remember playing this game - it was ok
can you do spell force next :)
On the list :)
I actually liked Grey Goo I just never had anyone to play with
I liked Grey Goo, but it just stopped working on my computer for some reason.
Really enjoyed this one!
Thanks mate!