Hmmm... A few thoughts. There is nothing like the present : sure be patient, but sometimes you will enjoy that rare and expensive record now, maybe not in ten years when you find it cheap. Why deprive you of the present joy? If the record goes down in value for a time, you got the best of it, your pleasure, when it could be triggered by that music. Flippers : They are a necessary commodity. Often, you will miss things out, because no one can keep up with all the sites and info. So the flippers offer you a chance to bypass that slip. If the flippers didn't buy it, it would get sold out to people who would keep it for themselves. The fact that it willl be inflated in price will also keep at bay people who are not too passionate about said record. It is annoying, but it can be a blessing in disguise. Is it too expensive? Well, when that last copy that you found too expensive is gone, you'll often find yourself thinking you were cheap, and that you'd now gladly pay even more. So yes, data analysis is crucial : how actually rare is the record, how likely am I to find a cheap copy, how likely is that label or distributor to repress it, how likely is it that this music power will loose its effect and the fan numbers will shrink, how many copies are available on discogs on my side of the world, how many in good condition, etc... Most records have only one pressing, and most records of the past 25 years a very limited one. 300 copies is the norm for most releases, that is a statistical fact. Most music that isn't well appreciated or celebrated already, that's the numbers we're talking about. So of course, it takes some times for the real good ones to emerge and get a reputation. But when they do, it's often too late. And with these numbers it often happens fast. So don't be cheap and be fast : 30 bucks for a 300 copies only pressing, that is a bargain, when you consider all the production costs! Now I'm no flipper myself, and am far from well off. But as Michael said it, be smart. I would lastly add that following your own personnal taste is the best way, since if you don't care about all those supposedly must haves and classic that everyone tells you you need to get, you will spend that time, energy and money on paths less travelled, get a taste and knowledge for it, and identify the good stuff there, the future classics, which is even more rewarding than getting the new desirable edition of an already proven classic.
I don't agree at all with the flipper as a necessary commodity. They're the reason lots of music lovers don't get the record at fair price in the first place. That's a distortion of the market at best, speculation most of the time and an abomination some times (Craft). I thank them very much for the chance to get that record, but no thanks - there's so many good records out there, it's not possible for me to get them all and worst, to listen them all. Now I have around 30 records never listened, and it's become permanent, something that I would like to avoid. Regarding the path less travelled, now and then I learn a lesson in my life: there's usually a reason because it's the path less travelled :) .
@@JardinagemOrg You are welcome to disagree, but I stand by my point, having purchased thousands and thousands of records in my life. Yes, there's usually a reason, and in my experience, most of the time, they are not good ones. Just look at the amount of VC videos going "how to start a record collection", all talking about the same stuff. About the flippers, you say it is a distortion of the marker? I don't know what that means : the marker is an abstract concept in this instance. the audience of a record is always shifting, expanding. When I discover a record 2 years after the release, 10 years, 20 years, 40 years, why would I expect to find it at a reasonable price? I'm happy if I can even find it. I recently missed on a 450 ltd 12". sold out after a couple of weeks, if not less. I'm happy there will hopefully be some copies on discogs from flippers. If they didn't exist, others would have gotten the record before me, and it would still have been sold out. It's my fault I didn't get it straight away. Now, I hope to get it for less than 30 euros. Remember this, most records have only one pressing and will never be reissued during your lifetime. But if indeed you constantly find cheap stuff that monopolizes your record budget, that's perfectlty fine. I tend to already own the majority of the records I'm interested in, from the past, and am not too interested in reissues. Archival recordings, htat's another story, though. But if I fall deeply in love with a record and its music, that attitude, well, that doesn't really work anymore. Ah, sorry for the long reply, this conversation deserves an actual specific focus. Don't you ever buy expensive older records?
@@StuntrockConfusion You're welcome too. I understand what you say regarding pressing of 300 or so… I know better the small press book market, but I guess that's the same. Since nobody cares, one day one will worth a lot, and for me that's the market (healty market if you will) working. The market it's always something kind of abstract… let's say in the limit the Craft stunt went all to the flipper bots… or 500 went to the flipper bots. That's completely different. If you lost a cherished record, too bad. One day one will show up and there's hundreds of reasons for that, without the need for flippers. And the market works. I'm not against small editions, on the contrary. But in this time and age? Man, if it's going to sell, print it. Look at the Miles Davis - that's a semi-artisan process and even so, they'll print 25.000 for start. That's what I call a healty market. Flippers want to buy some, be my guest for all I care. Years ago in some article said that in live concerts the flipper market was out of control… and then you don't have tickets for the likes of Madonna for less than 100-200€, why should you? For the flippers buy cheap? And then it was discovered that one of that big shot tickets seller was in bed with the flippers. That's a distortion and an abomination. But as I saw in a chinese movie once: Where's people, there's mafia. I don't buy old records - a few exceptions Dead Can Danse from MOFI and one tone poets… Cassandra Wilson I think. They we're expensive in my opinion, but that's not the flipper market working, only the regular market. In music all I care it's the music and the sound, then the overall quality of the edition. I like my records near mint, but not to the extent of Michael. I don't have his drive, I don't care about most what he says in this video, but I do admire what he does, and his collection. I never buy a records thinking about numbers or value, only if I like it. And sometimes, in the end, I don't like it that much (but never sold a single one so far). Sorry for the long answer too. I feel I don't have english for this :) I hope it's understandable.
@@JardinagemOrg I would say that I buy 70% of older records, if not more.Most of those are rare and unusal, unfortunately for me. Often, you buy what you can, because those records are not available, at all. So real VG+ is often what you end up with. I really think we're not really talking about the same thing, though. I press records for a living, and I see and understand the reasoning for most small independant pressings. For the most part, the label never is the biggest beneficiary of a hype and increase in price. But everyone can understand that. Again, if you can understand my point about 300 copies single pressings, remember that this model has been the vast majority of all vinyl record pressings.So I'm not talking about the exception. Audiophile boutique pressings of classics are not even 0.03% of all realeases that come out yearly. There are lots of reasons for that, but in the end, those numbers stand, and considering how spread out the distribution systems are nowadays, unless you get a release upon ten days after release date, flippers will often be your only resort, one that wouldn't even exist if all copies were sold to music lovers. And as I'm not giving up on records I love and have missed out, flippers can indeed be helpfull, but I'm sure there are exceptions to that, and you're porbably talking more about that.
I collect LPs 1.sound quality 2. Owning my favorite album 3. The social interaction 4. For the FUN of it 5. ( just a little) Nostalgia ( I'd be lying if I said there wasn't even just a little)
Surely it must be added that having an understanding partner and family helps especially when those records keep coming. It's a lucky person who doesn't get the questionable stare of do you need this as yet another parcel arrives.
This dude once again speaks perfect sense. I had been pursuing a copy of The Minutemen's 'Double Nickels on the Dime' for years. I refused to pay 100+ bucks for a copy (I think the highest I saw was 500 UK pounds. Then one day on discogs I finally found one going for 70 bucks - still a little pricey but it was a figure I felt comfortable with and now it is a prized possession. And yes, I think I have now seen copies that are even cheaper but I am ok with the price I finally paid but it always pays to wait.
The funny thing is that sometimes records you wouldn't think twice about end up being worth multiples of what you paid for. Case in point: my Beatles Mono box... (and everyone else who has one...) Paid retail, and didn't think twice about it. Today? $1500. Crazy!!!
@@SonicFlare I friended you on Instagram and sent you a link from an Acoustic Sounds (Vinyl_Lives) account congratulating you on your new CZcams channel.
Great subject and controversial topic nonetheless. Personaly I think there is a certain beauty in limiting oneself to only get the records that really matters to YOU. The ones that you enjoy listening to, not the one that are a public success but you not necessarily like, not the limited pieces or special boxes, not the edition that you expect to go up in price with the years. One thing that has to be said about vinyl records collecting is that it is very much like a drug addiction and it is easy to get caught in it if we are not taking a step back. Of course the impacts of this addition are lesser, but it still has an opportunity cost in the sense that it eats up a lot of money that is sometimes not proportional to the pleasure you get from the records and most of all it consumes a lot of time that can prevent you from spending time with family and friends. This passion can be shared socially at some occassions (or with the VC) but it entails quite a lot of lonely time digging online to get the long wanted titles, to maintain the collection (clean, organize,buy,sell) and most of the time to listen alone to one's records. So to me the most important is to focus on the records that bring joy and that can be shared socially on many occassions. Records that have not spinned for more than a year should be gettin rid of and a good way to limit the growing collection of unlistened records would be to fix oneself a max number of records (let's say 2000) and every new purchase would be at the cost of letting go one of the other record from the collection. We are only humans and the dependency on time and money is a constraint that our mind tries to deny when the collector fever hits. However there is beauty in the mind control and the choice in a world of limited possibilities. Just my two cents. Love your channel by the way, really inspiring and makes your audience discover about great titles. Keep up the good work mate!
Michael this is why I live your channel and this is the reason why Chad from Acoustic sounds picked you to represent in a way the buyers of his products. Is because you think outside the box and your topics are well thought out and informative. Not just another guy with a CZcams channel showing vinyl. Keep up the excellent work and again for me one of the best channel in our hobby.
Thank you Michael. Some very good rules/guidelines to establish. Yet, we find ourselves breaking some of them in the frenzy. LOL. One point on flippers, when you see a bunch of the same rare titles listed, say on ebay. This can be a good opportunity to negotiate the price down. Example conversation I had last night with one: There are 50 guys on here selling it for the same price as you, and none of them are moving fast. Can you do better on price? No? O.K. I will go to the next guy who is offering free shipping and see what he will do. Last night he was selling that album for $49.99 plus shipping. I got an email from him this morning, price now $35.00 and free shipping! Some are willing to sit on the item and wait. Others just want to turn it and recoup their cost (and hopefully a little profit) quickly. The $35.00 was $5 over retail. It works, but patience is also a virtue in this process as well.
Always great videos. I think this is an important topic to discuss and that most of your subscribers enjoy both the listening and collecting aspect of the hobby. My biggest mistake when I got back into vinyl was trying to accumulate a collection of my favorite musicians at a rate that was impossible given my available funds. As of recent, when I slimmed down my collection, I realized I bought a lot of vinyl that I would only listen to one or two times. PATIENCE is truly a blessing. As I have become more patient, I have found I appreciate the hobby and vinyl I purchase much more because I am not buying on impulse anymore. I have become more selective on what vinyl I want to own and what albums I am fine with just listening to in the streaming format.
excellent advice as always. you could also buy multiple copies and flip the extras to let other people help pay for your collection... at least while the current vinyl frenzy is happening.
In my opinion number 1 with collecting is only buy what you enjoy listening to. I would never buy something just because it may be worth something in the future. Unless that is if it’s already worth a fortune & it’s being sold cheaply. Great channel by the way!
It’s having a collection of pieces you play against having a collection that are just artifacts on a shelf. Or you can have 2000 pieces of junk or 500 pieces of well pressed vinyl that you can both enjoy and watch accrue over time. Enjoying the best of both worlds shouldn’t be a bad thing, even if the “investment” side will always be secondary to me. Besides, even looking at your shelves I don’t see many sealed records or doubles (if there’s any). Getting into that territory is slightly more egregious, at least to me. Anyway, great video as always, appreciate your insights.
I’m not collecting Vinyl for the value my collection holds. But I cannot say I’m oblivious to the value my collection has, especially when I purchased a brand new Vinyl for $500 last year, (I got a copy of RSD 2014 pressing of the album Government Plates by Death Grips). I do treat my more expensive records a bit differently in terms of care just because of how valuable they are. I make sure to take care all my records, but I cannot lie that the ones I know are more valuable I am a bit more protective over. I spent a ton of money on a product, so I should, obviously, take care of it. With me now getting into the audiophile landscape, you just have to be aware of the value the products you purchase have. They are expensive for a reason, and should be taken care of as such. I just personally have a problem with the people who buy records just for the worth it may have. Sure, I prefer a limited edition over a standard edition, that’s fine. It’s more so me having a problem with people buying a product for the amount rather than the art or music of it. I purchased that Death Grips album for $500 because they are one of my favorite bands ever, and that’s my second favorite project from them. It’s very much worth it in those cases.
Cool video Michael,great advice. For me patience is the key. Just ordered MOFI Dire Straits ,Dire Straits. Found it in audiophile shop in England . Doesn’t seem to available any where else. Acoustic sounds or eBay both don’t have it. Waiting on Love over Gold to finish my Mofi Dire Straits collection 👍
Great topic for a video, Michael! There are many aspects to our hobby. The music, the artists, the genres, the record shops, the pressings, the labels, the friends we meet, the gear, the joy of tweaking, the never ending collecting, and the values of our collection. Each one of these is such a great distraction. Keep ‘em coming!
Am a fan of violin soloists (Mutter, Kennedy, Oistrakh) so when Hilary Hahn announced the release of Paris I immediately pre-ordered the deluxe box with signed photo. Got it before it sold out. Its a prize in my collection.
My collection of 5 decades is about the music. Not the value it's primary function is the quality of the music and the sound.The collection functions as a time machine.Good advice as always.
Good informative videos Sir. One topic I miss is a talk about costs for import. As a EU citizen I am reluctant to order from US or now UK since I am worried about all the extra import costs and delivery time. Wud be great to get your view on this.
I buy records for few reasons 1) i buy it because i love the music e.g beatles records. Its has its values in matter of time 2) every records has its sendimental value and story to tell each time u pull it out the shelves. 3) some records i believe to buy it like an investment😅. 4) Money u earn..u got to spent it...so i agreed to spent it or some people said i waste it..on records..instead of spendin it on women or alcohol🤣. 5) vinyl records is form of the best quality of music 6) My awesome wife dont mind it at all 😅. 7) Thank u Michael for ur great video contents and informatic material.appreciate it always😍
I love to watch your videos ! Your voice and pace is very serene and relaxing, Knowledge is another part that you are giving and delivering to us and I personally love it !!
Log on to youtube and type in Don Grusin - The hang This is real musicians playing real music, feel the passion and gasp at the ability of these guys, but also note how modest they are. Real music of the highest order is not about Audiophiles.
Be patient can be good but it all depends. Santana Abraxas One-Step has only risen in value and Coltrane Lush Life could be the same because whoever starts collecting from the second release on will want to complete the collection. And that first one will only rise in value as that demand grows.
Love your insight. I always told myself that I would not be a 'collector' and that my intention was to listen to my vinyl. I love listening to vinyl. Now, full disclosure...I am 53 years old. Vinyl is nothing new to me. I am loving this recent resurgence and it has brought new life to my admiration for vinyl. I have found myself starting to not open my vinyl as quickly as I would like. I find a nice copy of something I love, bring it home, display on my shelf, and then listen to it on Tidal or Qobuz. ENOUGH!! HAHAHA Time to open up that vinyl and enjoy them. Quick question for you Michael, I'd love to see a video of your collection shown behind you and some insight on how you categorize your collection. Keep up the great job and congratulations on the success. Great community you have here.
Fair point, but... do you buy, knowing they will become or might become valuable? I ask because the pattern isn’t black and white : as Michael was saying, his drive is the collecting rather than the speculating, but he does find entertainment and joy in seeing the numbers go up. I’m just saying that I find it highly likely that when those thoughts and feelings are becoming a small part of your hobby, they might even enter your buying thought process earlier than you think. Oh well, either way, it probably doesn’t matter anyways 😅
@@tonynewman1694 of course, and I’m not expecting anything else. Just thought it would be interesting to acknowledge the process isn’t as black and white.
Great advice. I very much appreciated your cautionary tone re: value not being the end all, be all. Striking the right balance between being in it for the music vs. being a collector of vinyl, and interested in value, is a difficult issue for a lot of us. For me the balance is probably 70-30 or maybe even 80-20, and I aspire to keep it that way. I am concerned that my interest in value and collectability will crowd out my genuine taste in music, especially since a lot of great music will never translate into high value, or even audiophile quality vinyl, and we cannot depend on Chad et al to press everything under the sun! That said, there is certainly a win-win area, starting with only collecting music you actually like, and this video includes some other great tips as well on how to be "value conscious", lets say, in pursuing your love of music on vinyl. On a sidenote: I find the Boomkat website to be rather intimidating - nearly as much as the Record Store Day website!
Vinyl is about the 5 senses. Well sound, sight, smell, and touch. I dont taste my records. I dont look at the monetary value so much on Discogs, but every once and a while I take a picture of it. I compare it a month or two later.
Great Video! You covered a lot of the “Hard Lessons” I’ve learned over the years. However your point of maximizing value (ie; shelling out $400 for a Craft Coltrane vs. $400 on more accessible pressings which will eventually go up) is well taken. Too many times I’ve let FOMO allow me to sink too much $$ into a pressing right after it goes out of print and 5 years later it’s still worth the same :(. The $$ would have been better spent on some AAA AP sets or more affordable originals. Also in terms of RSD, I’d emphasize; don’t bother with “RSD firsts” which will be widely available, but are just offered initially on RSD Keep up the great work! Really love your takes on collecting.
The money and appreciation aspect of an collection is certainly an interesting topic. For me as I think for the most the music comes first, but I like to check on random records from time to time how they developed. Also it’s nice to know that all the money you spend has still in most cases even an appreciating value. I however stay away from tracking my whole collection, and measuring it’s development. I do that enough in other parts of my life and want to strictly separate my hobby from that.
Some sage advice from you Michael. The only thing I would add, is firstly, buy the kind of music you enjoy. At times, this may mean buying a less good version - for example, the current Blue Note Classic series is an excellent starting point with which to appreciate some great artists. In the fullness of time, however, you may consider a Music Matters copy or such like (subject to availability) to enhance your collection. At least this way, you have the pleasure of owning a decent recording and as you say, be patient for the upgrade.
Never understood the hate on people caring about the value of their records, it's not that I plan on selling them but it's something to take pride in. Of course it's the music always but keeping up with your collection by keeping track of what you have and the value of it is always a bonus perk, and alot of the times I look at it as 'damn I dodged the bullet by getting that when it first released rather than now'. And another great thing is trading for other records and equipment for your listening setup!
Lots of good advice. And of course value can be realized as financial gain and also love of music. For me a collection of the former of music I don’t really care for, is essentially worthless.
I buy my favorite albums in the highest quality from packaging to mastering at a good to decent deal. Some albums are out of my price range. I buy some albums knowing the value will increase with time but don't have plans to sell my collection.
Great suggestions and points Michael. I think it is wise to be patient however in 2021, that is proving to be difficult with how pricing and the market is surging. I'm regularly finding the low asking price on titles being well above the highest sold historical price on Discogs. I'm also seeing records I purchased less than a year ago being worth double the price or more. So as you've said, buy or die! And pre-order as much as possible. I do think the market will come back down to normal however with so many new vinyl buyers out there, I don't see it getting reasonable too soon. I think flippers serve a purpose and have no problem with them. With the exception of those who are asking exorbitant prices. And love the point about your collection being an investment! These are collectibles but definitely should be listened to. I will also say try to buy as close to the original pressing as possible if you can. For me, the historical artifact intrigues me the most.
there's a 'completist' aspect to collecting vinyl that can become a slippery slope. TAS super discs come to mind, I've known more collectors that were driven by the pursuit to own them all rather than for the music. Regardless, you cant go wrong buying new vinyl at list prices, if you find yourself needing to dispose of them you'll recover most if not all your investment.
Michael, thanks for the great recommendations. Wondering if new arrivals I have ordered that are shrink wrapped should be opened or removed upon arrival if plans are to listen in the future (possibly months). If the vinyl is kept in a climate control environment with low humidity, upright (like soldiers at attention), not tightly stacked, is it best to leave albums in tight shrink wrap? I noticed some audiophile labels use a loose outer sleeve with holes so the vinyl can breathe, and I feel these are fine to leave as is until I have time to play. Could the shrink wrap do damage? Would you recommend removing the shrink wrap when it arrives ? Once I have time to listen, I wash the record, and use a new inner and outer sleeve Thanks!
Another thing. To make a collection you prefer reissues. I am building a collection of the originals in the sixties and not necessairely first pressings. Sometimes you can vind real treasures in shops and fleemarkets. Last week i bought the first album of the doors(1967) in vg+ condition and first U.K. pressing for 2 euro in a second hand shop. Under the influence of your video’s I am buying also ‘modern’ reissues. You Made me enthousiast about it. Michael you have influance with your video’s. In One of your video’s last week you recommanded Caravanserai from Santana Speakers Corner pressing. I was considering the last months buy it or not from Dodax. I saw your video and I looked for it on Dodax, by the way very good shop, and saw only one copy in stock. I bought it. A week ago they had 12 copies in stock. And a month ago also 12. Was it coincidence. I think not. Another thing. You call your selve 45 RPM. But can you make a video about the real 45 RPM: singles. Many people of the vinyl community prefer the singles. My family is looping forward for the next video. Thanks.
This information provided by Michael and his channel is invaluable. We are often in a hurry and collecting records is like collecting valuable comic books or anything of value, it takes time. I prefer buying original records, but I will buy things like the Tone Poet and Blue note Classics to compare and contrast against the originals. I collect, Blues,Electronic, jazz, rock, metal, hip hop, country, raggae and what ever else that sounds good to me. Services like tidal allow you to listen first to make a decision. Record store day takes time an preparation, actually at least a month in advance. Buy what you love and not buy things just because you are thinking they will be valuable. I will play every record that I own because if it becomes that valuable that I can’t play it, I don’t want it. Experimenting with new genres of music gives you the experience and exposure to become a great collector.
There is nothing wrong with using a hobby to fund the same hobby. I routinely buy an LP I suspect might increase in value knowing I’ll purchase more LP’s I’ll listen to. This is great advice - and it in no way suggests you use your LP’s as your IRA.
Love your channel I live in the uk, but where have you found in Europe that sell analogue vinyl you recommend importing from states is so expensive and the choice in the uk I find poor
Hi Michael, how about the financial resources recommendation, cos I certainly can use one:-) Ordered the outer and inner sleves you recommended, will take a while before they will be shipped as there preorder only for inner one, so if lucky they may come by end of June or something. Thx for the video!
Thank you for the video - much appreciated. Here's an interesting moral question for you - if you can afford to do so do you buy two copies of a record - one to keep because you like the music and one to leave unopened and sell on at a later date for a profit - does that make you a bad person because you've deprived another music lover of getting a copy at the retail price or are you simply an astute buyer making a bit of money from the hobby?
I see absolutely nothing wrong with buying two and having one as a back up / sell later to offset the cost of collecting. FWIW; I would GLADLY pay 2x for any of the MFSL one steps I missed out on.
I buy music to enjoy listening to it, not for an investment. I am a CD first buyer (CDs are not dead). I also love vinyl. Unlike many from my generation, I kept all my LPs even when I did not have a turntable in my system. I can enjoy those albums I first purchased in the ‘70s today because I took care of them and stored them correctly. I also buy new and used vinyl now because I want to listen to it on the turntable (sometimes vinyl sounds better than the CD or a Qobuz stream. Most of the time I can’t tell the difference). I have chosen to collect the Blue Note Classic series (great value for great titles in my opinion). The most I have spent on a record was a Music Matters release for around $130. My most cherished record is the original UK pressing of Deep Purple Machine Head. I purchased it for myself for my birthday last year (near mint for the vinyl and cover with all the goodies). I spent $80 on that one. I just ordered the UHQR Kind of Blue because I love that album. I have a nice pressing of Kind of Blue that sounds great now, but I just wanted the UHQR. In all my years of music collecting, I never once considered what I could get for my collection. It is worth far more to me than anyone else. When I die, my daughter is looking forward to enjoying it. That makes me happy! As I write I am enjoying Art Blakey Moanin’ (Blue Note Classic). It sounds AWESOME!
Great recommendations as always, Michael! Really enjoyed this video! Are the Speakers Corners reissues out of Germany from the early 2000s, quality reissues? Do they sound really good compared to other versions?
Interesting video... many thanks for your insight. Although my collection is mainly for me to listen to (!), I also enjoy seeing it increase in value. At some stage my kids will inherit it! I’ve been thinking for a while to start a separate collection for investment purposes only - focussing on audiophile / limited releases. My main reticence (apart from the need for a lot of storage space) is my lack of knowledge about some of the genres that seem to do well (Hip Hop and Electronic Advantgarde). Any thoughts?
Definitely good to remember that it takes time. Especially when some of these mofi releases seem to triple in value in 3-6 months. I’ve been on discogs for 10 years now, my collection has just passed 60k median value, 100k high value. I’m not sure at what point I say this is crazy and I should instead pay off my house 🤣
You say the value goes up every week? Right, but only on paper, you just make money on paper. It only becomes real money when you sell your records and who wants to do that? I payed only 25% of what my collection is worth on discogs, but i would have to sell it. And that would be a nightmare to me.
Interesting video, I enjoy your opinions but I'm afraid I'm at the 'music' end of record buying, my brain (and pocket) won't let me pay £60-£100 on a single album when the same amount could get me four or five new releases by new bands or albums I've got from recommendations from yourself, Mazzy and Micheal on Noted & Archived and I could never own more than one version of the same album. It is all about the music for me, not a collection or value so I was surprised a Crows EP I purchased from a local store in 2016 at £12.00 that is now selling on Discogs for £100ish and a lot of my original Smiths and Cocteau Twins albums are worth money but were purchased at store prices in the 1980's.
Hello Michael, I purchased a lot of the Tone Poets mainly cause of the music I love Jazz but I have noticed that the value for them isn't equal to the Music Matters counterparts, yes some have gone up in price a little but nothing like the MM can you tell me why????
Sehr gute Anmerkungen. Ich habe einige Platten die im Wert gestiegen sind. Sammle erst seit einem Jahr. Viel Jazz und einiges an Klassik. ERC ist ja immer eine sichere Nummer. Wohl nicht das neue Release. Ist ja immer noch verfügbar. Aber was ist in 10 Jahren Michael? Wird die jüngere Generation unsere Musik auch sammeln. Denke nicht. Jan
I’m not too upset about that, simply because my experience with clear / colored / picture discs releases is that they don’t sound as good. Quiex and UHQR being the exceptions of course. The 4 LP CSNY is still available at Rhino though!
Hi Michael I want to get your opinion on the Ron carter record from ( in and out records ) So, I’m in the USA and I’m trying to get the copy but is about $100.00. From others. Anyway, you think it will be on print later on ? Thanks again
Having a ton of money at your disposal to spend on vinyl...would sort of seem to be a requirement. So building some disposable wealth if you don't already have it...yeah, do that. I really couldn't give a hoot about the value of my records. I buy records because I enjoy listening to them and not because of their potential monetary value. The value they bring to me is in the listening. I once encountered someone on a Scotch whisky forum who would routinely post pictures of all of the rare and very expensive bottles he was buying. We all later learned that he bought whisky only as an investment. He didn't drink Scotch at all. What a shame.
Hm..for me its only about the music …why should I take a look how much it is on discogs. As long I am not selling it doesn’t matter. When u gonna sell your collection ? 5 years before u go ? And then ..in most cases u go to Rock’n’Roll Heaven, someone gets the Collection ..and this someone sell it for a penny . So better listen to your records , enjoy the music ..and don’t check prices u never gonna realise.
Hi Michael... do you sell/buy on Discogs..? And will you share the name of you`re Discogs account..I would love to check out you`re complet collection..from here it looks very impresive.. and thanks alot for the videos..
I couldn’t care less about the value. Im not a flipper, Im a collector. I have no plans on selling any records.....not now, not ever. They will probably just end up in some dumpster in a couple of years, when I pass away...
Dear Michael. Just a few thoughts about Your last video. First of all congratulate for the numbers of Your followers. It seems the World need guidance what You show. However going after a lot videos which You presented I still have some strange feelings. All of the records You presented are repressed ones no mater the price think about ERC copies. You might have purchased all the highest priced records in the last 1 or 2 years. But are they really the best money could buy? In the point of view to build a valuable collection You are right. But what is the main goal? is it financial or just for the love of MUSIC? All that glitters is not gold. Especially if You look the equipments/ record players, MC cartridge, step up transformers..../ But once You step on a road it is very hard and sometimes painful to jump from it. And as You mentioned the social media can help but in many cases destroy Your choice and You spend thousand of Euros, Dollars... Regarding whether to keen on collecting a missing issue and not to jump from a financial point I have to argue. As many collectors and business makers buy some highly regarded records which by the way really good pressings and by time if You wanna find a real good copy You have to pay more, so better to pay just a double price by month than 3 or 4 times more by years I think. Anyway if someone wanna do this great hobby nowadays what You need is: Money Money and Money as Raimondo Montecuccoli said. Nowadays World, business is the first and everything is only after, sorry to say. So for the music lovers who are not rich the possibilies are less and less. I would like to see a video from You: My top 10 recommendations on how to built a fine music collection for vinyl lovers / But with high and not high budget/ Regards
Thanks For Your comment Michael. Maybe we should consult about this topic in a different point of view. As Ferdinand Porsche said: I couldn't find the sports car of my dreams, so I built it myself. Regards: Gyula
Michael it’s not all about records and vinyl. I think you’ve lost your direction. It’s about the MUSIC I’ve heard you say many times how the album has to be gorgeous and you criticize companies for bad products and trying to make a quick buck This is true but bottom line isn’t the album or the presentation but the sound. Yes the sound! Yes the music!! I have stupid lp’s from the 80’s that wiggle in my hands when I transfer them from their sleeves to my TT . But then something glorious happens! A beautiful sound!! I urge you and others who are vested in vinyl to be clear about this . 180 g is not always better. 45 rpm may not always be preferable. Always we want music. Vinyl is a MEDIUM but nothing else.
Hmmm... A few thoughts.
There is nothing like the present : sure be patient, but sometimes you will enjoy that rare and expensive record now, maybe not in ten years when you find it cheap. Why deprive you of the present joy? If the record goes down in value for a time, you got the best of it, your pleasure, when it could be triggered by that music.
Flippers : They are a necessary commodity. Often, you will miss things out, because no one can keep up with all the sites and info. So the flippers offer you a chance to bypass that slip. If the flippers didn't buy it, it would get sold out to people who would keep it for themselves. The fact that it willl be inflated in price will also keep at bay people who are not too passionate about said record. It is annoying, but it can be a blessing in disguise.
Is it too expensive? Well, when that last copy that you found too expensive is gone, you'll often find yourself thinking you were cheap, and that you'd now gladly pay even more.
So yes, data analysis is crucial : how actually rare is the record, how likely am I to find a cheap copy, how likely is that label or distributor to repress it, how likely is it that this music power will loose its effect and the fan numbers will shrink, how many copies are available on discogs on my side of the world, how many in good condition, etc...
Most records have only one pressing, and most records of the past 25 years a very limited one. 300 copies is the norm for most releases, that is a statistical fact. Most music that isn't well appreciated or celebrated already, that's the numbers we're talking about. So of course, it takes some times for the real good ones to emerge and get a reputation. But when they do, it's often too late. And with these numbers it often happens fast. So don't be cheap and be fast : 30 bucks for a 300 copies only pressing, that is a bargain, when you consider all the production costs!
Now I'm no flipper myself, and am far from well off. But as Michael said it, be smart. I would lastly add that following your own personnal taste is the best way, since if you don't care about all those supposedly must haves and classic that everyone tells you you need to get, you will spend that time, energy and money on paths less travelled, get a taste and knowledge for it, and identify the good stuff there, the future classics, which is even more rewarding than getting the new desirable edition of an already proven classic.
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts and insights Christian, fantastic comment
I don't agree at all with the flipper as a necessary commodity. They're the reason lots of music lovers don't get the record at fair price in the first place. That's a distortion of the market at best, speculation most of the time and an abomination some times (Craft). I thank them very much for the chance to get that record, but no thanks - there's so many good records out there, it's not possible for me to get them all and worst, to listen them all. Now I have around 30 records never listened, and it's become permanent, something that I would like to avoid.
Regarding the path less travelled, now and then I learn a lesson in my life: there's usually a reason because it's the path less travelled :) .
@@JardinagemOrg You are welcome to disagree, but I stand by my point, having purchased thousands and thousands of records in my life.
Yes, there's usually a reason, and in my experience, most of the time, they are not good ones. Just look at the amount of VC videos going "how to start a record collection", all talking about the same stuff. About the flippers, you say it is a distortion of the marker? I don't know what that means : the marker is an abstract concept in this instance. the audience of a record is always shifting, expanding. When I discover a record 2 years after the release, 10 years, 20 years, 40 years, why would I expect to find it at a reasonable price? I'm happy if I can even find it. I recently missed on a 450 ltd 12". sold out after a couple of weeks, if not less. I'm happy there will hopefully be some copies on discogs from flippers. If they didn't exist, others would have gotten the record before me, and it would still have been sold out. It's my fault I didn't get it straight away. Now, I hope to get it for less than 30 euros.
Remember this, most records have only one pressing and will never be reissued during your lifetime. But if indeed you constantly find cheap stuff that monopolizes your record budget, that's perfectlty fine. I tend to already own the majority of the records I'm interested in, from the past, and am not too interested in reissues. Archival recordings, htat's another story, though.
But if I fall deeply in love with a record and its music, that attitude, well, that doesn't really work anymore. Ah, sorry for the long reply, this conversation deserves an actual specific focus. Don't you ever buy expensive older records?
@@StuntrockConfusion You're welcome too. I understand what you say regarding pressing of 300 or so… I know better the small press book market, but I guess that's the same. Since nobody cares, one day one will worth a lot, and for me that's the market (healty market if you will) working. The market it's always something kind of abstract… let's say in the limit the Craft stunt went all to the flipper bots… or 500 went to the flipper bots. That's completely different.
If you lost a cherished record, too bad. One day one will show up and there's hundreds of reasons for that, without the need for flippers. And the market works. I'm not against small editions, on the contrary. But in this time and age? Man, if it's going to sell, print it. Look at the Miles Davis - that's a semi-artisan process and even so, they'll print 25.000 for start. That's what I call a healty market. Flippers want to buy some, be my guest for all I care.
Years ago in some article said that in live concerts the flipper market was out of control… and then you don't have tickets for the likes of Madonna for less than 100-200€, why should you? For the flippers buy cheap? And then it was discovered that one of that big shot tickets seller was in bed with the flippers. That's a distortion and an abomination. But as I saw in a chinese movie once: Where's people, there's mafia.
I don't buy old records - a few exceptions Dead Can Danse from MOFI and one tone poets… Cassandra Wilson I think. They we're expensive in my opinion, but that's not the flipper market working, only the regular market. In music all I care it's the music and the sound, then the overall quality of the edition. I like my records near mint, but not to the extent of Michael. I don't have his drive, I don't care about most what he says in this video, but I do admire what he does, and his collection. I never buy a records thinking about numbers or value, only if I like it. And sometimes, in the end, I don't like it that much (but never sold a single one so far).
Sorry for the long answer too. I feel I don't have english for this :) I hope it's understandable.
@@JardinagemOrg I would say that I buy 70% of older records, if not more.Most of those are rare and unusal, unfortunately for me. Often, you buy what you can, because those records are not available, at all. So real VG+ is often what you end up with. I really think we're not really talking about the same thing, though. I press records for a living, and I see and understand the reasoning for most small independant pressings. For the most part, the label never is the biggest beneficiary of a hype and increase in price. But everyone can understand that. Again, if you can understand my point about 300 copies single pressings, remember that this model has been the vast majority of all vinyl record pressings.So I'm not talking about the exception. Audiophile boutique pressings of classics are not even 0.03% of all realeases that come out yearly. There are lots of reasons for that, but in the end, those numbers stand, and considering how spread out the distribution systems are nowadays, unless you get a release upon ten days after release date, flippers will often be your only resort, one that wouldn't even exist if all copies were sold to music lovers. And as I'm not giving up on records I love and have missed out, flippers can indeed be helpfull, but I'm sure there are exceptions to that, and you're porbably talking more about that.
I collect LPs
1.sound quality
2. Owning my favorite album
3. The social interaction
4. For the FUN of it
5. ( just a little) Nostalgia ( I'd be lying if I said there wasn't even just a little)
How about discovering new music, new artists?
Surely it must be added that having an understanding partner and family helps especially when those records keep coming. It's a lucky person who doesn't get the questionable stare of do you need this as yet another parcel arrives.
“Victims of this beautiful hobby “. Haha. Well said my friend.
This dude once again speaks perfect sense. I had been pursuing a copy of The Minutemen's 'Double Nickels on the Dime' for years. I refused to pay 100+ bucks for a copy (I think the highest I saw was 500 UK pounds. Then one day on discogs I finally found one going for 70 bucks - still a little pricey but it was a figure I felt comfortable with and now it is a prized possession. And yes, I think I have now seen copies that are even cheaper but I am ok with the price I finally paid but it always pays to wait.
The funny thing is that sometimes records you wouldn't think twice about end up being worth multiples of what you paid for. Case in point: my Beatles Mono box... (and everyone else who has one...) Paid retail, and didn't think twice about it. Today? $1500. Crazy!!!
I bought Tom Petty's Wildflowers back in the 90's for $17...well, I was shocked when I saw how much it was worth on Discogs!
@@KorbenDenver yes!!! Exactly. It’s crazy!
I got an announcement congratulating you on your new channel. I looked it up thinking I would be your first follower but can't find anything???
@@jasonhoffer9017 hmmmmm which link are you using?
@@SonicFlare I friended you on Instagram and sent you a link from an Acoustic Sounds (Vinyl_Lives) account congratulating you on your new CZcams channel.
Great subject and controversial topic nonetheless. Personaly I think there is a certain beauty in limiting oneself to only get the records that really matters to YOU. The ones that you enjoy listening to, not the one that are a public success but you not necessarily like, not the limited pieces or special boxes, not the edition that you expect to go up in price with the years. One thing that has to be said about vinyl records collecting is that it is very much like a drug addiction and it is easy to get caught in it if we are not taking a step back. Of course the impacts of this addition are lesser, but it still has an opportunity cost in the sense that it eats up a lot of money that is sometimes not proportional to the pleasure you get from the records and most of all it consumes a lot of time that can prevent you from spending time with family and friends. This passion can be shared socially at some occassions (or with the VC) but it entails quite a lot of lonely time digging online to get the long wanted titles, to maintain the collection (clean, organize,buy,sell) and most of the time to listen alone to one's records. So to me the most important is to focus on the records that bring joy and that can be shared socially on many occassions. Records that have not spinned for more than a year should be gettin rid of and a good way to limit the growing collection of unlistened records would be to fix oneself a max number of records (let's say 2000) and every new purchase would be at the cost of letting go one of the other record from the collection. We are only humans and the dependency on time and money is a constraint that our mind tries to deny when the collector fever hits. However there is beauty in the mind control and the choice in a world of limited possibilities. Just my two cents. Love your channel by the way, really inspiring and makes your audience discover about great titles. Keep up the good work mate!
Could you do a video on 10 horror stories that you experienced in collecting! Would be interesting 🤨
I collect for the love of music. That some records are worth a pretty penny is just a bonus. Or a nightmare if those are the ones you wanna get 😅
Michael this is why I live your channel and this is the reason why Chad from Acoustic sounds picked you to represent in a way the buyers of his products. Is because you think outside the box and your topics are well thought out and informative. Not just another guy with a CZcams channel showing vinyl. Keep up the excellent work and again for me one of the best channel in our hobby.
thanks a lot Joe
Thank you Michael. Some very good rules/guidelines to establish. Yet, we find ourselves breaking some of them in the frenzy. LOL. One point on flippers, when you see a bunch of the same rare titles listed, say on ebay. This can be a good opportunity to negotiate the price down. Example conversation I had last night with one: There are 50 guys on here selling it for the same price as you, and none of them are moving fast. Can you do better on price? No? O.K. I will go to the next guy who is offering free shipping and see what he will do. Last night he was selling that album for $49.99 plus shipping. I got an email from him this morning, price now $35.00 and free shipping! Some are willing to sit on the item and wait. Others just want to turn it and recoup their cost (and hopefully a little profit) quickly. The $35.00 was $5 over retail. It works, but patience is also a virtue in this process as well.
Always great videos. I think this is an important topic to discuss and that most of your subscribers enjoy both the listening and collecting aspect of the hobby. My biggest mistake when I got back into vinyl was trying to accumulate a collection of my favorite musicians at a rate that was impossible given my available funds. As of recent, when I slimmed down my collection, I realized I bought a lot of vinyl that I would only listen to one or two times. PATIENCE is truly a blessing. As I have become more patient, I have found I appreciate the hobby and vinyl I purchase much more because I am not buying on impulse anymore. I have become more selective on what vinyl I want to own and what albums I am fine with just listening to in the streaming format.
I really never think of the value of my record collect because I couldn't imagine selling any of them. LoL
same...I do not care the value. I am not even on discogs with my collection.
Same until I saw this video, then I immediately got renters insurance so I can replace them if something happens!
Recommendation Nr.1: Have a lot of money to spent on records ^^
excellent advice as always. you could also buy multiple copies and flip the extras to let other people help pay for your collection... at least while the current vinyl frenzy is happening.
Solid advice to wait it out. Especially salient regarding RSD purchases.
Listening to your voice should legally be considered a form of therapy
In my opinion number 1 with collecting is only buy what you enjoy listening to. I would never buy something just because it may be worth something in the future. Unless that is if it’s already worth a fortune & it’s being sold cheaply.
Great channel by the way!
It’s having a collection of pieces you play against having a collection that are just artifacts on a shelf. Or you can have 2000 pieces of junk or 500 pieces of well pressed vinyl that you can both enjoy and watch accrue over time. Enjoying the best of both worlds shouldn’t be a bad thing, even if the “investment” side will always be secondary to me. Besides, even looking at your shelves I don’t see many sealed records or doubles (if there’s any). Getting into that territory is slightly more egregious, at least to me. Anyway, great video as always, appreciate your insights.
I’m not collecting Vinyl for the value my collection holds. But I cannot say I’m oblivious to the value my collection has, especially when I purchased a brand new Vinyl for $500 last year, (I got a copy of RSD 2014 pressing of the album Government Plates by Death Grips). I do treat my more expensive records a bit differently in terms of care just because of how valuable they are. I make sure to take care all my records, but I cannot lie that the ones I know are more valuable I am a bit more protective over. I spent a ton of money on a product, so I should, obviously, take care of it.
With me now getting into the audiophile landscape, you just have to be aware of the value the products you purchase have. They are expensive for a reason, and should be taken care of as such.
I just personally have a problem with the people who buy records just for the worth it may have. Sure, I prefer a limited edition over a standard edition, that’s fine. It’s more so me having a problem with people buying a product for the amount rather than the art or music of it. I purchased that Death Grips album for $500 because they are one of my favorite bands ever, and that’s my second favorite project from them. It’s very much worth it in those cases.
Cool video Michael,great advice.
For me patience is the key.
Just ordered MOFI Dire Straits ,Dire Straits.
Found it in audiophile shop in England .
Doesn’t seem to available any where else.
Acoustic sounds or eBay both don’t have it.
Waiting on Love over Gold to finish my Mofi Dire Straits collection 👍
Great topic for a video, Michael! There are many aspects to our hobby. The music, the artists, the genres, the record shops, the pressings, the labels, the friends we meet, the gear, the joy of tweaking, the never ending collecting, and the values of our collection. Each one of these is such a great distraction. Keep ‘em coming!
Perhaps we ought to form a vinyl 12 Step Group, suffering from Audiophilia Nervosa, with serious cash withdrawals.
Am a fan of violin soloists (Mutter, Kennedy, Oistrakh) so when Hilary Hahn announced the release of Paris I immediately pre-ordered the deluxe box with signed photo. Got it before it sold out. Its a prize in my collection.
My collection of 5 decades is about the music. Not the value it's primary function is the quality of the music and the sound.The collection functions as a time machine.Good advice as always.
Good informative videos Sir. One topic I miss is a talk about costs for import. As a EU citizen I am reluctant to order from US or now UK since I am worried about all the extra import costs and delivery time. Wud be great to get your view on this.
Maybe tomorrow there will be a Video to adress this Problem!!!
I buy records for few reasons
1) i buy it because i love the music e.g beatles records. Its has its values in matter of time
2) every records has its sendimental value and story to tell each time u pull it out the shelves.
3) some records i believe to buy it like an investment😅.
4) Money u earn..u got to spent it...so i agreed to spent it or some people said i waste it..on records..instead of spendin it on women or alcohol🤣.
5) vinyl records is form of the best quality of music
6) My awesome wife dont mind it at all 😅.
7) Thank u Michael for ur great video contents and informatic material.appreciate it always😍
I love to watch your videos ! Your voice and pace is very serene and relaxing, Knowledge is another part that you are giving and delivering to us and I personally love it !!
Log on to youtube and type in Don Grusin - The hang
This is real musicians playing real music, feel the passion and gasp at the ability of these guys, but also note how modest they are.
Real music of the highest order is not about Audiophiles.
Excellent discussion. Your recommendations are applicable in the purchase and enjoyment of any type of collection.
Be patient can be good but it all depends. Santana Abraxas One-Step has only risen in value and Coltrane Lush Life could be the same because whoever starts collecting from the second release on will want to complete the collection. And that first one will only rise in value as that demand grows.
The shelves in the thumbnail alone are simply perfection. This is perfectionism how I like it. Awesome 😍
Love your insight. I always told myself that I would not be a 'collector' and that my intention was to listen to my vinyl. I love listening to vinyl. Now, full disclosure...I am 53 years old. Vinyl is nothing new to me. I am loving this recent resurgence and it has brought new life to my admiration for vinyl. I have found myself starting to not open my vinyl as quickly as I would like. I find a nice copy of something I love, bring it home, display on my shelf, and then listen to it on Tidal or Qobuz. ENOUGH!! HAHAHA Time to open up that vinyl and enjoy them. Quick question for you Michael, I'd love to see a video of your collection shown behind you and some insight on how you categorize your collection. Keep up the great job and congratulations on the success. Great community you have here.
Roomtour will come Jeff
Great information Michael!!!
I don't buy because they are valuable but they become valuable over time.
Fair point, but... do you buy, knowing they will become or might become valuable? I ask because the pattern isn’t black and white : as Michael was saying, his drive is the collecting rather than the speculating, but he does find entertainment and joy in seeing the numbers go up. I’m just saying that I find it highly likely that when those thoughts and feelings are becoming a small part of your hobby, they might even enter your buying thought process earlier than you think. Oh well, either way, it probably doesn’t matter anyways 😅
There are certain lps I will buy because they may incress in price but not the main factor I buy records I want to listen too. I hope this helps.
@@tonynewman1694 of course, and I’m not expecting anything else. Just thought it would be interesting to acknowledge the process isn’t as black and white.
Great advice. I very much appreciated your cautionary tone re: value not being the end all, be all. Striking the right balance between being in it for the music vs. being a collector of vinyl, and interested in value, is a difficult issue for a lot of us. For me the balance is probably 70-30 or maybe even 80-20, and I aspire to keep it that way. I am concerned that my interest in value and collectability will crowd out my genuine taste in music, especially since a lot of great music will never translate into high value, or even audiophile quality vinyl, and we cannot depend on Chad et al to press everything under the sun! That said, there is certainly a win-win area, starting with only collecting music you actually like, and this video includes some other great tips as well on how to be "value conscious", lets say, in pursuing your love of music on vinyl.
On a sidenote: I find the Boomkat website to be rather intimidating - nearly as much as the Record Store Day website!
Wonderful stuff Michael... The eloquent Germanic tones of reason...
Vinyl is about the 5 senses. Well sound, sight, smell, and touch. I dont taste my records.
I dont look at the monetary value so much on Discogs, but every once and a while I take a picture of it. I compare it a month or two later.
Great Video! You covered a lot of the “Hard Lessons” I’ve learned over the years. However your point of maximizing value (ie; shelling out $400 for a Craft Coltrane vs. $400 on more accessible pressings which will eventually go up) is well taken. Too many times I’ve let FOMO allow me to sink too much $$ into a pressing right after it goes out of print and 5 years later it’s still worth the same :(. The $$ would have been better spent on some AAA AP sets or more affordable originals.
Also in terms of RSD, I’d emphasize; don’t bother with “RSD firsts” which will be widely available, but are just offered initially on RSD
Keep up the great work! Really love your takes on collecting.
The money and appreciation aspect of an collection is certainly an interesting topic.
For me as I think for the most the music comes first, but I like to check on random records from time to time how they developed. Also it’s nice to know that all the money you spend has still in most cases even an appreciating value.
I however stay away from tracking my whole collection, and measuring it’s development. I do that enough in other parts of my life and want to strictly separate my hobby from that.
Some sage advice from you Michael. The only thing I would add, is firstly, buy the kind of music you enjoy. At times, this may mean buying a less good version - for example, the current Blue Note Classic series is an excellent starting point with which to appreciate some great artists. In the fullness of time, however, you may consider a Music Matters copy or such like (subject to availability) to enhance your collection. At least this way, you have the pleasure of owning a decent recording and as you say, be patient for the upgrade.
Never understood the hate on people caring about the value of their records, it's not that I plan on selling them but it's something to take pride in. Of course it's the music always but keeping up with your collection by keeping track of what you have and the value of it is always a bonus perk, and alot of the times I look at it as 'damn I dodged the bullet by getting that when it first released rather than now'. And another great thing is trading for other records and equipment for your listening setup!
Lots of good advice. And of course value can be realized as financial gain and also love of music. For me a collection of the former of music I don’t really care for, is essentially worthless.
I buy my favorite albums in the highest quality from packaging to mastering at a good to decent deal. Some albums are out of my price range.
I buy some albums knowing the value will increase with time but don't have plans to sell my collection.
Thoughtful & measured comments / opinions as always. Thank you 🙏
Great suggestions and points Michael. I think it is wise to be patient however in 2021, that is proving to be difficult with how pricing and the market is surging. I'm regularly finding the low asking price on titles being well above the highest sold historical price on Discogs. I'm also seeing records I purchased less than a year ago being worth double the price or more. So as you've said, buy or die! And pre-order as much as possible. I do think the market will come back down to normal however with so many new vinyl buyers out there, I don't see it getting reasonable too soon. I think flippers serve a purpose and have no problem with them. With the exception of those who are asking exorbitant prices. And love the point about your collection being an investment! These are collectibles but definitely should be listened to. I will also say try to buy as close to the original pressing as possible if you can. For me, the historical artifact intrigues me the most.
there's a 'completist' aspect to collecting vinyl that can become a slippery slope. TAS super discs come to mind, I've known more collectors that were driven by the pursuit to own them all rather than for the music. Regardless, you cant go wrong buying new vinyl at list prices, if you find yourself needing to dispose of them you'll recover most if not all your investment.
Michael, thanks for the great recommendations. Wondering if new arrivals I have ordered that are shrink wrapped should be opened or removed upon arrival if plans are to listen in the future (possibly months). If the vinyl is kept in a climate control environment with low humidity, upright (like soldiers at attention), not tightly stacked, is it best to leave albums in tight shrink wrap? I noticed some audiophile labels use a loose outer sleeve with holes so the vinyl can breathe, and I feel these are fine to leave as is until I have time to play. Could the shrink wrap do damage? Would you recommend removing the shrink wrap when it arrives ? Once I have time to listen, I wash the record, and use a new inner and outer sleeve Thanks!
Great approach
Another thing. To make a collection you prefer reissues. I am building a collection of the originals in the sixties and not necessairely first pressings. Sometimes you can vind real treasures in shops and fleemarkets.
Last week i bought the first album of the doors(1967) in vg+ condition and first U.K. pressing for 2 euro in a second hand shop.
Under the influence of your video’s I am buying also ‘modern’ reissues. You Made me enthousiast about it.
Michael you have influance with your video’s. In One of your video’s last week you recommanded Caravanserai from Santana Speakers Corner pressing. I was considering the last months buy it or not from Dodax. I saw your video and I looked for it on Dodax, by the way very good shop, and saw only one copy in stock. I bought it.
A week ago they had 12 copies in stock. And a month ago also 12. Was it coincidence. I think not.
Another thing.
You call your selve 45 RPM. But can you make a video about the real 45 RPM: singles.
Many people of the vinyl community prefer the singles.
My family is looping forward for the next video.
Thanks.
This information provided by Michael and his channel is invaluable. We are often in a hurry and collecting records is like collecting valuable comic books or anything of value, it takes time. I prefer buying original records, but I will buy things like the Tone Poet and Blue note Classics to compare and contrast against the originals. I collect, Blues,Electronic, jazz, rock, metal, hip hop, country, raggae and what ever else that sounds good to me. Services like tidal allow you to listen first to make a decision.
Record store day takes time an preparation, actually at least a month in advance. Buy what you love and not buy things just because you are thinking they will be valuable. I will play every record that I own because if it becomes that valuable that I can’t play it, I don’t want it. Experimenting with new genres of music gives you the experience and exposure to become a great collector.
There is nothing wrong with using a hobby to fund the same hobby. I routinely buy an LP I suspect might increase in value knowing I’ll purchase more LP’s I’ll listen to. This is great advice - and it in no way suggests you use your LP’s as your IRA.
Love your channel I live in the uk, but where have you found in Europe that sell analogue vinyl you recommend importing from states is so expensive and the choice in the uk I find poor
Thanks for the tip on the independent electronic sites. They help due to being isolated on a tiny island 🍻
Hi Michael, how about the financial resources recommendation, cos I certainly can use one:-)
Ordered the outer and inner sleves you recommended, will take a while before they will be shipped as there preorder only for inner one, so if lucky they may come by end of June or something. Thx for the video!
Good info I like your list
Thank you for the video - much appreciated. Here's an interesting moral question for you - if you can afford to do so do you buy two copies of a record - one to keep because you like the music and one to leave unopened and sell on at a later date for a profit - does that make you a bad person because you've deprived another music lover of getting a copy at the retail price or are you simply an astute buyer making a bit of money from the hobby?
no i do Not do That, but i See Nottingham Bad in doing so
I see absolutely nothing wrong with buying two and having one as a back up / sell later to offset the cost of collecting. FWIW; I would GLADLY pay 2x for any of the MFSL one steps I missed out on.
Thank you for this video.
Record prices never go down. Never.
honestly, a record must be played a couple of times after a good cleaning to sound the best.
I buy music to enjoy listening to it, not for an investment. I am a CD first buyer (CDs are not dead). I also love vinyl. Unlike many from my generation, I kept all my LPs even when I did not have a turntable in my system. I can enjoy those albums I first purchased in the ‘70s today because I took care of them and stored them correctly.
I also buy new and used vinyl now because I want to listen to it on the turntable (sometimes vinyl sounds better than the CD or a Qobuz stream. Most of the time I can’t tell the difference). I have chosen to collect the Blue Note Classic series (great value for great titles in my opinion).
The most I have spent on a record was a Music Matters release for around $130. My most cherished record is the original UK pressing of Deep Purple Machine Head. I purchased it for myself for my birthday last year (near mint for the vinyl and cover with all the goodies). I spent $80 on that one. I just ordered the UHQR Kind of Blue because I love that album. I have a nice pressing of Kind of Blue that sounds great now, but I just wanted the UHQR.
In all my years of music collecting, I never once considered what I could get for my collection. It is worth far more to me than anyone else. When I die, my daughter is looking forward to enjoying it. That makes me happy! As I write I am enjoying Art Blakey Moanin’ (Blue Note Classic). It sounds AWESOME!
Thanks a lot for sharing Jerald
Great great video man thank you for sharing this with us
Great recommendations as always, Michael! Really enjoyed this video! Are the Speakers Corners reissues out of Germany from the early 2000s, quality reissues? Do they sound really good compared to other versions?
Buy what you love and care for it.
Interesting video... many thanks for your insight. Although my collection is mainly for me to listen to (!), I also enjoy seeing it increase in value. At some stage my kids will inherit it! I’ve been thinking for a while to start a separate collection for investment purposes only - focussing on audiophile / limited releases. My main reticence (apart from the need for a lot of storage space) is my lack of knowledge about some of the genres that seem to do well (Hip Hop and Electronic Advantgarde). Any thoughts?
Try and learn you will get a good instinct after a couple of month
Thanks again for your insights.
Definitely good to remember that it takes time. Especially when some of these mofi releases seem to triple in value in 3-6 months. I’ve been on discogs for 10 years now, my collection has just passed 60k median value, 100k high value.
I’m not sure at what point I say this is crazy and I should instead pay off my house 🤣
Can you share why you sold your avant-garde electronic collection and how you did it?
...what do you do for living, man? where did you get the money for your huge collection? used records there too?
You say the value goes up every week? Right, but only on paper, you just make money on paper. It only becomes real money when you sell your records and who wants to do that? I payed only 25% of what my collection is worth on discogs, but i would have to sell it. And that would be a nightmare to me.
Interesting video, I enjoy your opinions but I'm afraid I'm at the 'music' end of record buying, my brain (and pocket) won't let me pay £60-£100 on a single album when the same amount could get me four or five new releases by new bands or albums I've got from recommendations from yourself, Mazzy and Micheal on Noted & Archived and I could never own more than one version of the same album. It is all about the music for me, not a collection or value so I was surprised a Crows EP I purchased from a local store in 2016 at £12.00 that is now selling on Discogs for £100ish and a lot of my original Smiths and Cocteau Twins albums are worth money but were purchased at store prices in the 1980's.
what a beautiful collection!
Hello Michael, I purchased a lot of the Tone Poets mainly cause of the music I love Jazz but I have noticed that the value for them isn't equal to the Music Matters counterparts, yes some have gone up in price a little but nothing like the MM can you tell me why????
Simple: Tone Poets get re-pressed.
Sehr gute Anmerkungen. Ich habe einige Platten die im Wert gestiegen sind. Sammle erst seit einem Jahr. Viel Jazz und einiges an Klassik. ERC ist ja immer eine sichere Nummer. Wohl nicht das neue Release. Ist ja immer noch verfügbar. Aber was ist in 10 Jahren Michael? Wird die jüngere Generation unsere Musik auch sammeln. Denke nicht. Jan
Thanks for the tips! Totally inline here.
There is already no clear vinyl on Joni Mitchell’s page!
I’m not too upset about that, simply because my experience with clear / colored / picture discs releases is that they don’t sound as good. Quiex and UHQR being the exceptions of course. The 4 LP CSNY is still available at Rhino though!
Hallo Michael, hier ist wieder Köln. Wie schon als Hopeless Cases angekündigt, sind wir jetzt auch Teil der Vinyl Community. Na, mal schauen?
Gleich mal abonniert... viel Erfolg euch
@@Michael45RPM lieben Dank!
When the music's over, turn out the lights, and sell it on eBay.
👌👌
Great video. Very important information.
But you forget one thing. Das Geld.
Hi Michael I want to get your opinion on the Ron carter record from
( in and out records )
So, I’m in the USA and I’m trying to get the copy but is about $100.00. From others.
Anyway, you think it will be on print later on ? Thanks again
I would wait on this one
I like your comments you very good man
what‘s your nickname on discogs? would like to see your collection :)
Can you give me back the canadian seller of protection sleeves… and what is the reference for gatefold vynil …inremember i didn t find it
Vinyl Storage Solutions
For myself...music 16%/attractiveness of musicians 33&1/3%/album cover 45%....label design 78%
Hi Michael @45rpmaudiophile ! May I ask where you get your beautiful record shelves?:)
I talk about them in my upcoming Room Tour
@@Michael45RPM Thanks for the reply Michael. Looking forward to that:)
Having a ton of money at your disposal to spend on vinyl...would sort of seem to be a requirement. So building some disposable wealth if you don't already have it...yeah, do that. I really couldn't give a hoot about the value of my records. I buy records because I enjoy listening to them and not because of their potential monetary value. The value they bring to me is in the listening. I once encountered someone on a Scotch whisky forum who would routinely post pictures of all of the rare and very expensive bottles he was buying. We all later learned that he bought whisky only as an investment. He didn't drink Scotch at all. What a shame.
Hm..for me its only about the music …why should I take a look how much it is on discogs. As long I am not selling it doesn’t matter. When u gonna sell your collection ? 5 years before u go ? And then ..in most cases u go to Rock’n’Roll Heaven, someone gets the Collection ..and this someone sell it for a penny . So better listen to your records , enjoy the music ..and don’t check prices u never gonna realise.
Hi Michael... do you sell/buy on Discogs..? And will you share the name of you`re Discogs account..I would love to check out you`re complet collection..from here it looks very impresive.. and thanks alot for the videos..
Not anymore Jesper
#puregenius
Nice video Michael:)
Teach us wise one!!! #vcgodfather
I couldn’t care less about the value. Im not a flipper, Im a collector. I have no plans on selling any records.....not now, not ever. They will probably just end up in some dumpster in a couple of years, when I pass away...
Dad's money
Those shelves must be made of steel, I'm guessing custom made? Very nice and simple..
I talk about them in my upcoming Room Tour
You selling anything? Any Mofi? :)
Nope :-)
Dear Michael. Just a few thoughts about Your last video. First of all congratulate for the numbers of Your followers. It seems the World need guidance what You show. However going after a lot videos which You presented I still have some strange feelings. All of the records You presented are repressed ones no mater the price think about ERC copies. You might have purchased all the highest priced records in the last 1 or 2 years. But are they really the best money could buy? In the point of view to build a valuable collection You are right. But what is the main goal? is it financial or just for the love of MUSIC? All that glitters is not gold. Especially if You look the equipments/ record players, MC cartridge, step up transformers..../ But once You step on a road it is very hard and sometimes painful to jump from it. And as You mentioned the social media can help but in many cases destroy Your choice and You spend thousand of Euros, Dollars...
Regarding whether to keen on collecting a missing issue and not to jump from a financial point I have to argue. As many collectors and business makers buy some highly regarded records which by the way really good pressings and by time if You wanna find a real good copy You have to pay more, so better to pay just a double price by month than 3 or 4 times more by years I think.
Anyway if someone wanna do this great hobby nowadays what You need is: Money Money and Money as Raimondo Montecuccoli said. Nowadays World, business is the first and everything is only after, sorry to say. So for the music lovers who are not rich the possibilies are less and less.
I would like to see a video from You: My top 10 recommendations on how to built a fine music collection for vinyl lovers / But with high and not high budget/
Regards
Thanks For Your comment Michael. Maybe we should consult about this topic in a different point of view. As Ferdinand Porsche said: I couldn't find the sports car of my dreams, so I built it myself. Regards: Gyula
Michael it’s not all about records and vinyl. I think you’ve lost your direction. It’s about the MUSIC
I’ve heard you say many times how the album has to be gorgeous and you criticize companies for bad products and trying to make a quick buck
This is true but bottom line isn’t the album or the presentation but the sound. Yes the sound! Yes the music!!
I have stupid lp’s from the 80’s that wiggle in my hands when I transfer them from their sleeves to my TT . But then something glorious happens! A beautiful sound!!
I urge you and others who are vested in vinyl to be clear about this . 180 g is not always better. 45 rpm may not always be preferable.
Always we want music. Vinyl is a MEDIUM but nothing else.
Your shelves must be made of plate steel, 1/4" thick and zero flex!🙄
how to build
OMG thanks for the correction Nick .......