RV Tankless Water Heater! Confusing Results!
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
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We have a 2021 Brookstone and we just put in a tankless water heater. It’s a Furion. And we love it! We live in it full time and we never run out of hot water! I don’t mind waiting a minute or two for it to get hot. It’s worth it since we shower a lot and I wash dishes every day.
I put a Girard in my last trailer we full timed in and it was amazing and was very efficient with propane. Showering 2 adults 2 kids and doing dishes with out waiting for water to heat up was amazing
The more I learn about the tankless water heaters, the more I think I'll stick with our 6 gallon DSI water heater. My wife can take a shower, then I can jump in, and never had a problem with running out of hot water.
The biggest drawback I have found is that it wastes a lot of water, especially when showering. As long as you’re in a campground with full hookups, it’s great. If you need to conserve water, it doesn’t work nearly as well.
I have the same Girard water heater in our trailer. The one comment you made is you'd use more propane with a tankless, and while electric only might be an option, it's a slow one, plus when on propane the propane consumption of a tanked heater is constant when first heating the water, then steadily kicks back on to maintain the temperature.
Changing Lanes measured over 30 minutes to first heat the tanked heater. During that time the burner would have been running constantly. A 6 gallon water heater often has a 12000BTU element inside, the Girard tankless heaters have a 42000BTU element, which is 3.5x more consumption of propane.
But if it takes 30+ minutes to heat a six gallon tank, you have used as much propane as a 8.5 minute shower on the tankless just to start the shower. Once you are showering the tanked heater still needs to keep burning, and also has a limited span before you run out. If you happen to leave the tank on through the day, it will cycle to maintain the temperature.
A 1.5gpm draw will consume a six gallon tank of water in 4 minutes, assuming it was on full hot. Hooked up to a tankless water heater, you would be running for 4 minutes to heat the same volume of water. There are differences in hot cold mix with tanks that muddy this, but it's hard to see how a tanked heater would save energy.
With the tankless you are only burning propane when you have the hot water on. In practice, I camped for 6 weeks before consuming a single 30lb propane bottle with a family of six, and that also included propane cooking on the same tank.
And all of that is glossing over the major quality of life improvements that waiting 30-40 seconds instead of 30-40 minutes represents. The wasted water isn't ideal, but one unit is sixty times better than the other at that warm-up time.
Sorry, I'm not buying the long run vs. short run argument. If the tankless water heater is creating 115 degree water at its outlet, and a tanked water heater is also making 115 degree water, the water will cool the same regardless of how it got hot in the first place. But if your tankless water heater can only heat say, 90 gallons per hour (1.5 gallons per minute), you could be outrunning the ability of the water heater to make hot water. A tanked water heater can pump out the 6-10 gallons of hot water as fast as the faucet or shower demands, until the tank runs out of heated water.
Ours works great and the recovery time is seconds, our showers are at 104 and very warm
Maybe you should ask coachman to send you a tankless for the brookstone to evaluate the difference between the tankless they are using now vs the standard one they used at the time the brookstone was built.
I think the recovery time is good as you have found except for the long runs. The biggest issue I have had is the cold inlet temperature. In the Intermountain West, that water can be very cold. The water heater can't get up to temp at all. Thanks for the great video!
I have a ROAMER 1. In ECO mode there is barley enough time for the misses to take a shower (I am retired Navy so I don't take Hollowood showers so Its good enough for me) the return to temp is fairly quick I feel, normal mode is definitely enough for the misses to take a shower, but I have to wait before I can hop in, but on boost, it will burn the skin off if you are not careful, but we can hop in the shower right after the other. Ill say ECO mode is great for all day use (dishes in stuff). Been winter camping (just got the trailer) only "boondocking" so far with the evenings at or just below freezing temps. We are still learning the trailer. We have been on three 5+ day boondocking trips so far and still on the original tanks of propane. The trailer is definitely efficient in keeping the trailer at a comfortable temp, we are just having an issue learning the water. Its only a 19' box, so I agree, its good due to the short distance the water has to travel (Also, all the water is plumbed to just to the left side -so the travel distance is shorter)
I am completely surprised that an all gas (propane) heater is being "forced" on us as RV owners. Isn't there a large movement to eliminate the use of fossil fuels and more toward all electric rvs?? You nailed it.....the on demand water heater DOES NOT perform better overall than a DSI heater. Price/cost is really the only thing driving their popularity by rv MANUFACTURERS. From a camping perspective, why would you want an all gas heater when you can use the electricity From the camp sight to heat water.
Most of the electricity in the US is generated by fossil fuels. I have full timed in many RV’s with both electric and tankless. The tankless is 100 times better. Also only uses propane when your using hot water. Unlike the tank water heaters that have to stay hot and use propane and electricity all the time.
I like to have 2 options. Gas and electric. I actually heat on electric some when solar is plentyful so no charge on electric and no propane. Big draw but I can piggy back on electric and propane. Now sure you want a decent size battery bank but its becoming cheaper and cheaper to get a lot of amp hours
JD, love all your videos but a BIG variable in this test is the base temp of the water coming in. Your in TX and I would assume the base is much higher than Chad's base temp.
Agree.. more testing after the freeze is over.
More likely the weather. Water coming out of the ground should be 65* ish. It actually could hurt he is in TX. We run our water lines unprotected due to our weather. If it was cold when he did this test the water could have been colder due to the lines being unprotected.
After watching the video from changing lanes I kinda believe the difference may be a mixture of the higher elevation he was at as well as the lower temperatures. It’s possible that you being closer to sea level with warmer temperatures may be aiding in the superior results you are getting.
The tankless in our Imagine 2500RL worked great. I was able to take a shower and turn the water off and on to conserve and the water never got cold.
Have one on a 2022 17 MKE . Camp at high elevation around 7-10 K so far works great. Pretty short run to the shower .
Biggest thing I would say is it’s geographically dependent your groundwater coming in is like 67° in Texas and that could be very different in the northern states. This will greatly affect recovery rate on a tankless heater.
I lived in a 30’ Fifth Wheel for over 10 years through the 1990s. I wish there had been the Tankless back then. I had so make sure I didn’t take too long of a shower.
In actual day to day use our Suburban tankless performs very similarly to the results Chad demonstrated. Not only does it take forever to get hot water, if we interrupt the flow for even a second its enough to make turn off and have to restart the process. If you are say taking a shower and you adjust the temp too cold it can be well over a minute of ice cold water before it starts getting warm again. Sometimes it will error out on the relight sand then you wont get hot water until you stop all water flow, wait minute or two and turn it back on.
Our RV is 46' but the shower is almost directly above the heater so its not a length of plumbing thing and the kitchen sink is maybe 10 to 12' away from the heater.
Ours is also very sensitive to pressure. If the water pressure is low it will throw an E1 error frequently because it does not detect enough flow to light. The park we are in right now has 30PSI at the bib and its not enough for the heater to work consistently. We have resorted to filling the tank and running off the pump to have good water pressure.
We are not at all impressed with the Suburban in ours living in it full time. We are strongly considering either putting a tank in or swapping to a Truma with recirc. Im doing my research on that now.
We don't see boondocking for more than an overnight or two as an option right now because we waste so much water waiting for hot water. To put the water waste in perspective we have a 100g tank and with two people can drain the tank from stuffed full to under 10 gal in just a couple of days taking short showers and doing dishes once a day because we wait so long for hot water and as far as dishes go we do the majority in our dishwasher which uses 1.9gal per cycle and we do one cycle a day. Not only do we waste a lot of fresh we would fill the grey tank in very short order.
It’s common sense that the further the water has to travel from the heater to the outlet, the longer temperature recovery time will be between spigot off and back on. Ambient temperature will play a heavy role in the recovery time as well. I like the idea of the tankless system but to gain uniformity in performance in different RV types and climate conditions, I would like to see a recirculating system installed in tandem with it.
Ours is a Suburban Tankless and there is a crazy delay. We definitely have to leave the water on for the whole shower, can’t shut it off like we used to when boondocking, wastes tons of water. I would go back to a 6 gallon tank heater in a heartbeat. Also, read the manual. It’s not endless hot water. It’s only 20 minutes of hot water, then you’d have to reset the system.
Could’ve had the water go through a funnel when you were measuring the shower
Ambient water temp makes a huge difference. If it is below 50, we dont dare turn off the shower in our Imperial Outdoors X22. The bathroom sink wastes a ton of water heating up.
I have a forest river xlr 36tsx16 5th wheel with the furrion tankless water heater. I had it in 25 degree weather and never really noticed that big of a delay in washing dishes. But never really thought about it. Next time I take it out i will test it.
Tankless do not like short cycling. The more advanced ones go through a vent cycle to purge exhaust fumes and cool the upper chamber. Those are the ones that have a condensate trap on them, AKA High Efficient. Every time the water flow is turned off, the gas shuts off and the blower continues to cycle for a few seconds, which in turn also cools the water in the coils. Lower end ones do not have a purge cycle so the water remains hot in the coils. It sounds like the one you just tested is the lower efficient one that provides continuous hot water even while short cycled. Your friend may have the higher efficient one. On those if you use it for short cycles, like washing dishes or a high efficient front loader washer, they recommend adding a recirculating pump to the hot side. It continues to flow water between the heater and far end faucet so the water stays warm. It can be connected to a switch so it only functions as needed, otherwise it will use up the fuel when not needed. Check to see if the heater has a recirculation pump control built into it.
JD... I bet ambient temperature of the water plays a huge part as well. If your out in the summer where its warm the city water supply temp may be 75 degrees. If you're out in early spring or late fall that same city water supply temp may be in the upper 30s. The temp that city water coming into the unit would be a huge variable. I'd love to see a test with the supplied water at 35 degrees and the supplied water at 75 degrees and lets see what happens. Now with a tank water heater be 6, 10, or 12 gallon that water in that tank no matter the city water supply temp is always going to come out of that unit at the same temp when its fully heated of course causing less wasted water...no matter the size of rig after owning RVs for 24 yrs now I'll take the tank unit with elec/gas supply any day over the tankless. All you see online and marketed today is solar solar solar and inverter setups in rigs today with lifepo4 batteries for off grid use. Everything is going 12V electric supply because of solar. Heck even most manufactures are leaning towards getting rid of ovens in their lower end units...this is just the beginning of that I'm sure its coming slowly for all and they all go convection, but yet those same manufactures are only supplying a water heater that runs solely off propane. The HYPOCRISY is killing me 🤷♂
My understanding is that if given the option a 60,000 btu unit is the better option.
I know Rockwood and Flagstaff have the shower miser. I agree with you when it depends on the size of the RV. I ts the same with an outdoor wood burning furnace. The longer the pipes the heated water has to travel, the longer it takes to get the warmest air out of the vents.
I have a small 6 gal tank heater and we never run out of hot water. The tankless has only one advantage and that is endless hot water for long showers. It wastes more water due to recovery and uses tons of propane where I use none while we have hookups. I had a Girad tankless in my first RV and it was very sensitive to flow i.e low flow = low heat. Maybe they have gotten better but this was a big problem for us. In an RV park electricity is free or at least not metered if you stay less than a month. I'll take the tank model,
Airstream uses these water heaters, and they are only good if your have endless water and propane …. Horrible if you’re dry camping … water miser solves that problem and I’m seriously considering that
You have to take into account that Chad has an RV with two zip codes, 43 feet.
The tankless that was in our Raptor 352 recovery time was very long and wasted water. We primarily boondock and this is not for us thanks I see yours is a bit better in recovery time
I saw Chad's video as well. I think there are modes of operations that Chad did not consider. Our Aquua Go has two modes; Eco and Confort. In Eco mode, the water is only heated when there is demand. In Comfort mode, the hot water is recirculated so that there is always hot water at the faucet. So we usually keep the unit either off or in Eco mode. When we know that we need hot water for dishes, shower, etc., we turn the unit to Confort. In about 30 seconds, we have hot water and the unit keeps the water warm. When we are done, we turn the unit back to Eco or to off. This is particularly useful when boondocking as it limits the amount of wasted cold water.
Thanks for this, this is the type of info i need as i search for a replacement for my Suburban tankless.
There is no recovery with the Truma units. I’ve had mine two years and you could go ten minutes and put the hot fixture on it’s hot right now, zero hot cold flashes. Other folks swear by them as well as Endless RV who has had one in they’re class A, they also think it’s the best.
Tankkess heater don't have recovery time I think you mean lead time lines are probably not insulated to keep it hot but all gas tankless heaters have a delay for about 10 seconds before kicking on turning it off and on it will cause a temperature drop which is called a cold sandwich there meant to stay on for a whole shower time or continue use no need to turn off which makes longer showers which means more gas and water usage or no need to wait for multiple people showering
F.Y.I…Skin temp for most people is 90 degrees. Water temp of 80 degrees feels like “freezing, ice cold” water in a shower or a pool.
Has anyone added an accumulator on the tankless water system? If so, did it make a difference other than acting as a pressure buffer for the water pump?
I saw a suggestion to set your heater temp to the temp you want to take a shower. That way you can turn your hot water to full in the shower and no need to waste time adjusting the mix between cold and hot water to get the temperature you want.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
We just purchased a new Durango 5th Wheel and have the tankless water heater. The unfortunate thing is the door to the water heater has 3 long, narrow vents at the bottom of the door, as well as a round vent towards the top of the door. Mud daubers have taken over! The round hole can be covered with a wire mesh cover but how do you cover the 3 long vents? They are 11" wide!! FURRION says never to cover the vents with anything. How do you keep the bugs out!? 🤔
I have a tankless in my home. Looks like you maybe wasted a gallon of water before getting hot. Because I have about 40 feet to my kitchen I waste about 2 gallons before getting hot. In my opinion this setup wouldn't be that great in a boondocking situation where water would be a premium.
I watched the first video that you did and still don't understand the point in this experiment. Are you looking to see if there is a delay in the burner reactivating between uses that would result in momentary cold spike? I feel like a traditional water heater would yield the same results as well. Tankless or not, you still have water cooling in the lines between uses and the hot water is still being supplied directly from the water heaters so either way, you would have to wait for the temperature to come back up to what you're calling for. Sorry if this comes across as being rude, I don't mean that at all. Just confused lol.
Chads 5er had the 12 gal suburban tank heater. He has a secret test rv for the channel that has the tankless. The length of pex should be about the same.
How much water was wasted during the recovery experiment? The water miser solves that problem
In addition to the length of the pipes, the water pressure and the flow rate probably have an effect
Why would I waste my propane when I've paid for the the electricity at the camp ground. I wanted 2023 Toy hauler with a 16' garage but it only comes with tankless, so I stayed with my 2021 with 12' garage.
The problem is have i keep getting an error code once the temperature gets to 85 degrees and I everything turn on well i have propane and the water heater turn on
Chad has a toy hauler grand design reflection toy hauler.
On demand for unlimited hot water use, sink, shower, kitchen all using hot water at same time.
I have a 20 second delay, using my Hart water in my bathroom in my house. I don’t see the difference.
To me, being able to heat with electric outweighs all the benefits of tankless.
Not a fan of tankless.