Repertoire: The BEST (and WORST) Nielsen Symphony No. 5
Vložit
- čas přidán 1. 01. 2022
- Unquestionably one of the shattering masterpieces of 20th century symphonic composition, Nielsen's Fifth is so original in both form and content that it gives many interpreters real problems. Of the many recordings both currently and historically available, seven interpretations really stand out as truly excellent. Here they are.
- Hudba
One of the greatest symphonic masterpieces of all time, period. Very expressive and passionate, highly original, and formally ingenIous. My favourite kind of music.
Totally agreed, this work is endlessly fascinating to me.
Mind blowing.
I’m glad Oramo is increasingly getting the recognition he deserves. In London we are fortunate to see a lot of him, and he rarely disappoints. His performance of Arnold’s 5th at the BBC Proms this summer was the most moving I have ever heard.
Thanks, Dave, for the recommendations. Bernstein's has always been my favorite. So I'm looking forward to Oramo's. I placed my order with BIS this morning, and in the afternoon I got a call from the CEO of this label, Robert von Bahr, asking me if I knew the reason for the sudden surge in orders for Oramo's Nielsen cycle, since it was released years ago. He received orders from all over the world! My answer was, "it's thanks to David Hurtwitz!" He was very pleased and said he knows you.
Happy New Year from the Netherlands!
Thanks for the mention!
I attended the open rehearsal of the Gilbert recording, on a lovely October morning in 2014. I think I heard them play the “Maskarade” Overture three or four times. The 5th and 6th Symphonies went out marvelously.
I really love open rehearsals. The hall is empty, you can sit anywhere, it’s wonderful.
Yes, David, I have the Oramo set and love the performances. Like you, I'm also very fond of the Bernstein. It was my introduction to this magnificent symphony.
Happy New Year David! Great video, completely agree with you!
Many thanks for a splendid introduction to a towering masterpiece. My first exposure to the work was via a live concert by the Budapest Symphony under the direction of György Lehel, while I was an undergraduate at the University of Maine. I wager that few if any in the audience were familiar with the piece. And what an impression it made! The audience was spellbound; goosebumps wee omnipresent as the malevolent snare drum player gradually retreated backstage. That, plus the gradual overcoming of the demonic fugue in the second movement didn't fail to get its message across to an war-weary audience, some of whom would be drafted to serve, and possibly die in Vietnam. I would add only two minor points to your analysis. One unique feature of Nielsen's mature symphonies (2-6 in my book) is that they occupy a fascinating middle ground betwen abstract and program music. Though the "program" of the Fifth is overall pretty clear, it (and its neighbors in the Nielsen canon) can be heard as abstract symphonic music, and appreciated principally for its stylistic/formal innovations. My other point is that, as you pointed out, it's the second movement rather than the first in which the "triumph of good over evil" is apparently secured, since that first hearing at the live concert, I have always wondered if the coda with whhich the symphony concludes is not a bit more ambiguous. I am referring to the intrusion of that nagging clarinet figure from the first movement which seems to give notice that the battle has been won but the conflict will continue in one form or another. It's as if that nagging motif is warning the listener not to fall beack onto the somnolence depicted at the very beginning of the symphony. As the anniversary of the January 6 insurrection approaches maybe we all need to hear this symphony anew as containing a warning for all times and places. As such Nielsen 5 belongs with Vaughan Williams 6 and Shostakovich 7, though it's a greater work than either.
Hi Dave,
Happy New Year! I want to say thank you for the effort you make to provide such perspicacious and quite often thoroughly entertaining YT videos, and I have also benefitted from signing up as an insider on your website. I would like to add that my opinion of big boxed sets has changed. I never paid attention to them before finding your channel about 10 months ago, and I have made several purchases based on your recommendations. I just moved and finished filing my CDs in their jewel cases on my shelves. A painful moment comes from an unlabeled cardboard box packed with CDs and the realization that a great shift must occur from Cavalli to Vejvanovský. This is not so for the preorganized discs in Ormandy’s wonderful big box and Muti’s, Markevitch’s etc.
Jay
Thanks, Dave. I went and checked out your talk on the best (and the worst) Nielsen cycles and bought five of the ones you recommended (and one not recommended for comparison). I'm totally blank when it comes to Nielsen and look forward receiving the mail in the next weeks.
A most enjoyable video about my favorite Nielsen Symphony. I was introduced to this by one of my high school teachers (mid 1970s) when we were discussing Sibelius. He asked if I had heard the work, and then brought in his LP of the Bernstein performance and I was smitten immediately. David, you deftly capture the glories of this work in your explication-it is original, inspirational, and utterly magnificent in its emotional journey and I enjoy noting others who share my high esteem of this work-and for the same reasons. I purchased my own copy of that LP, and later borrowed the Horenstein recording from a local library. The only thing that it brought out that I hadn't noticed in Bernstein's recording was the final woodwind and violin figure leading into the concluding note. Horenstein emphasizes this filigree more than in any other recording which I've heard. But otherwise I was not much impressed by that performance-except the snare drum's barrage in the first movement, which is quite exemplary. Kuchar then became my next recording, a fine one, and others have followed.
Nielsen's tempo instructions in the second movement's concluding measures ask for stretching out the allegro with an allargando, though how much of an allargando is up to the conductor's interpretation. At performance mark 99, the opening material returns at "Allegro (Tempo I)," and that is maintained until mark 113, when the strings join the tympani in pounding the quarter notes, with a "poco allargando," and that lasts for 13 measures. The tympani gives us just one quarter note in the 14th measure, where Nielsen then asks for the music to continue "poco a poco allargando" to the final measure which has a fermata. The broadening of tempo and increasing majesty to these final bars, especially when the dynamics reach FFF, I think was very well-served by Bernstein. Salonen goes for an even broader conclusion which I also feel works well, and the filigree into the final measure is clearer than in Bernstein. Most other recordings I've heard follow these indications to a lesser level, meaning they don't broaden the tempo as much as one finds in Bernstein and Salonen. Since I "imprinted" on Bernstein and then enjoyed Salonen for so many years, I tend to find the swifter conclusions a little less triumphant, and a touch less satisfying. But there are other wonders in the recordings you've mentioned, David, that are captivating. Oramo and Gilbert are both knock outs.
I consider Nielsen's 5th in its two long movements as uniquely the 'Symphony of the Brain': The first movement is right brain oriented (feeling) and the second movement is left brain orientated (logic). I think the listener should be forewarned that one has to actively listen to the complicated second movement to grasp it, particularly after the ease of absorbing the simpler first movement.
After familiarization, I have found the second movement to be the much more fascinating one with its overflowing cornucopia of musical ideas, to the point that the first movement almost seems like a long introduction to the second's mini-symphony in a single movement. Nielsen's 5th is definitely one of the great 20th century symphonies, expanding upon the original musical form inherited from the Viennese and standing in the company of other symphonies from the same century composed by Sibelius, Vaughan Williams and Shostakovich.
I just found an original 1963 Columbia Masterworks pressing of the Bernstein recording in the 49¢ bin of my local record store. Evidently a radio station copy with "Demonstration not for sale" stamped on the back and the dates it was played pencilled in the margin. Great condition, sounds fantastic.
Thank you very much for your insightful discussion: it's an invaluble discussion, and looking forward greatly to conducting it for the first time in December in London.
Good luck!
The Ole Schmidt recording is one of my favourites.
My brother is a percussionist in a local symphony and during a rehearsal of Nielsen's 5th, while doing the improv snare part, he threw in Ravel's "Bolero" rhythym and was promptly told by the conductor to not do that at the performance, lol.
Great video. I agree with your comments on the Kuchar cycle and the fifth. Anyone who wants to dip their toe into Nielsen its a no-brainer. The Kuchar boxset is absolute steal for the money. Well recommended by yourself and many others.
Kuchar has a GREAT track record of making wonderful music throughout his recordings 👍
I assume you mean the Kuchar Nielsen box, but these performances are also in a larger Kuchar box, which is full of wonderful stuff.
Thank you David .
Great talk, thank you David. I really need to acquire the Oramo BIS set - I hope it will eventually be released as a complete box. Just a bit expensive at the moment on individual discs. I see that Oramo also recorded it (also on BIS) with Scottish Orchestra and the Stockholm Orchestra. I don't recall you mentioning that set. I wonder if they are good?
Definitively will listen Oramo! I still regularly listen to the earlier Blomsted EMI recordings on LP, recorded SQ Quadraphonically. In the time, 1979 I believe, that was an expensive box set.
Such an insightful analysis and overview of Nielsen's Fifth. As happy as I am with Gilbert in this symphony, I agree that Oramo's recording (and cycle) is even better recorded. I also treasure Bernstein and have wondered what a later in life remake of his would have told us.
wow what a great explanation
Glad you liked it! Thanks.
My introduction to this wonderful symphony was Kubelik on EMI. Still one of my favorites.
That's nice, but it's neither well recorded nor especially idiomatic. It's rather dull.
Love this music. Your recommendation, Royal Stockholm/Oramo, is a thrilling performance. My edcucation continues.
I've not heard Horenstein's recording for years and no longer have it. I recall the thin strings, rough sounding brass and close percussion but, as you say, there was no choice in those days and it was a top seller. I was amazed that the final take had a snare drum solo where the player comes in early, stops and then starts again. It sort of adds to the chaos. Other than that it is one hell of a solo!! The Kuchar cycle is a good cheap way of getting into Nielsen. A bargain. There's video called Espansiva a Portrait of Carl Nielsen. It includes an analysis of the 5th by Bob Simpson. It's been uploaded. Worth searching out.
@@paxpaxart4740 The orchestra itself didn't have thin strings but the recording certainly did. Maybe it's because they were so recessed and dominated by the percussion - something of a Unicorn trait. The Horenstein Mahler 3 has the same issue.
I'd love to see a Nielsen 1 talk. I know from your reviews, and I agree, that you think it's very underrated. The slow movement reminds me quite a bit of the big theme in the middle of the first movement here.
I have always taken the programme for this symphony to be the First World War. The snare drum is recruiting young men to go and fight. The climax in the first movement represents a battle like the Somme and the clarinet player is gazing over the field of battle playing one of the saddest pieces of music I have ever heard.
Just finished listening to the Oramo recording on BIS. All I can say is Oh Wow! I thought I had heard the symphony before this. I was wrong.
So glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent analysis as usual, David. Please excuse if I missed you’ve mentioned him in your Sibelius videos, but what do you think of Oramo’s Sibelius?
www.classicstoday.com/review/review-6508/?search=1
I bought the Naxos 1994 Nielsen cycle recording with Adrian Leaper conducting the National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland over 25 years ago. I think he really does it justice!
There are several better.
Thank you dear David! HOWEVER, I did expect a mention of Naxos 1992 recording with Adrian Leaper and National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland. Wonderful snare drum playing unusually using also the border of the snare drum. I remember when I was a kid to look at an old edition score of Nielsen 5th with these words: "here the percussionist must liberate all the fantasy of his imagination". In this respect, this recording should be mentioned!
No it should not. Two or three rim shots do not redeem a less than stellar performance more generally.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you again. Though I admired more colors in that snare drum solo than only three rim shots, I cannot but agree. I was raised with Bernstein marvelous recording, and I tried to follow all the subsequent recordings ever since. Now, I have access to the historical performances and, like you have said, they are not immaculate, of course. But the very first, the Georg Hoeberg live concert from 1933 brought me some insights. I thought it was a wonderful document, from the very beginning, the pacing (to me somewhat slow but nervous), all the strings portamenti style of the age, until the last allargando, very satisfying and moving experience to me. But in this recording, there is a particular kind of bizarre sound of the suspended cymbal, I wonder what you would think about this cymbal sound. I remembered your tam-tam/gong class!
Once again, thank you Dave for a most illuminating video of your criticisms. Always I find new things to learn, thank you. I’ve been thinking of transcribing Nielsen’s 5th for concert band. At the moment, I’m transcribing Tchaikovsky’s Francesca da Rimini. Have you done this piece?
Sure, I've played it.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I might just do one in that case!
My favorite peculiarity of the Bernstein Nielsen 5th is the tiny grace note just after the climax of the first movement. No one else does it, and I have wondered whether it's actually some sort of snag in the recording, but it definitely is not, and it is incredibly effective at emphasizing the bottom of the ending. Utterly visionary.
I absolutely agree with the Oramo! The fugue and coda in the 2nd movement are unparalleled
Dave. So glad you prevented us with this penetrating analysis of the Neilsen fifth. I love the Neilsen oeuvre but you nailed for me what he had in mind when composing the fifth. You are my teacher. What do you think of the strange sixth which I also love
I like them all.
I’ll admit to not exploring Nielsen 5 much beyond Bernstein, probably because I spend most of my Nielsen listening on No. 4. Happily, the Sakari Oramo 4 & 5 is available on Qobuz in high-res, so it’s time to keep on listening (immediately!) I could use a good snare drum cadenza to shake the winter cob webs off this morning.
David, I enjoyed your analysis and thoughtful overview. I have Kondrashin's 1984 LP with Amsterdam. It seems to hit the same marks you highlight I wonder what you think of it?
I think it's quite mediocre, with dull sonics.
@@DavesClassicalGuide thanks...I also have the San Fran Blomstedt that you liked.cheers.
Do you like the Chung version of the 5th on BIS? I believe it comes as a singleton disc (separated from Jarvi’s Nielsen recordings) with a nice recording on the violin concerto. It’s a good well recorded performance though hard to say if it’s any better than the seven you mentioned. I like that it’s coupled with the violin concerto rather than another symphony.
I already said that it's very good.
What do you write after a magnificent fourth symphony?
Nielsen wrote the fifth.
Hello David! Just heard the 1st string quartet of Nielsen! Muscular! Energetic! Right between the romantic folk melodies of dvorak and more modern repetitive patterns! Very nice to listen to! And there's a naxos version! Do you have a preferred Nielsen string quartet? Cheers!!!
You didn’t ask me, but I love Nielsen’s string quartets! Such underappreciated and inventive works. The recordings by the Danish String Quartet on Dacapo are stunning in all regards!
@@kylejohnson8877 thanks Kyle! I am going to listen this evening! I heard the f minor quartet from naxos and before it started I played the beginning of the one you mentioned. The starting notes were so powerful. I changed to checked the naxos out. But tonight I will jump to your advice! Many thanks!!!
@@kylejohnson8877 I am listening to the Danish string quartet! They are amazing with this string quartets! Thank you so much for the tip!!!!!
There is actually a version of the 5th by Chung (Myung-Whun) and the Gothenburg Symphony on BIS which might be worth considering. Very vivid, to my ears at least.
Already discussed, by me in the video and others in these comments.
I'm a bit late to the discusion but still. Good analysis as always with stress on the musical aspect rather than historical, that's precious! As for me, there is some kind of tangle about what's happeneing in the coda. It doesn't sound as victory of the good forces for me, especially as you hear those quite ugly (frankly speaking) octave leaps playing by trumpets. But on the other hand, the symphony ends in Eb, the Eroica key, so it IS a victory. And the tonal progression suggests movement from dark to light I guess (A >> Eb). So what was Nielsen's vision after all?
"So what was Nielsen's vision after all?" How's this? After years of everyone publicly focusing on the war (first movement), now the personal life must press forward on its journey with all the headaches, conflicts and triumphs (second movement).
I don't think I would class the Kletzki recording on Decca as a "historical" recording, but it was one of the earlier ones. The Orchestre de la Suisse Romande sounds better than usual, but now there are really quite a few better played recordings than that. But I like Kletzki's approach - he was always good at dramatic, in-your-face music.
It's OK, but as you say, it has been surpassed technically and I actually find the interpretation (possibly because of the orchestra) a bit tame now. I agree though that the concept is right.
Great recommendations and I need to check out Gilbert and Vansk. Talking of Berglund, I know of two versions of the Fifth he did - the RCA one, which I think is generally poor, and one with Bournemouth on EMI which IMHO was much better (it was my introduction to the work and I only have it on vinyl unfortunately).
There is no "Vansk." I hope you mean Oramo. Vanska's Nielsen (on Hyperion) is just OK.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Vänskä's Nielsen is actually on BIS (I have it, along with a good few others). I don't believe Hyperion actually has a Nielsen cycle to its name.
@@paulpellay3755 Right you are! Thanks.
The Bournemouth one is in the Berglund box on Warner.
Using my incredible psychic powers, before I heard one word of your talk, I knew who the worst would be. In this case, I think you spot on, especially about that second movement. Not one of my favorite Horensteins.
I bought the Bernstein LP in 1965, and it overwhelmed me. I had never heard music that moved in that way,, and it turned me into a Nielsen headbanger. It's still got the volts. I immediately got all the recordings of Nielsen I could find -- at that time, Bernstein, Ormandy, and -- alas -- Horenstein. Ormandy has a lovely, warm Helios Overture, and Bernstein's No. 3 raptured me out.
Thanks so much for your BEST recommendation. Listened on Spotify and immediately bought them on the internet.
Are there two endings to the symphony?
No.
mr hurwitz--have you heard nielsen's helios with genady rozdestvensky. majestic, moving, beautiful.
other recordings i have heard are - well- awful. now about that slatkin sea symphony with gripping vocal performances....
We have different ears and different ways to approach the music. I don't consider Rozhdestvensky and Thomson cycles dull at all. There is much energy, punch and clarity in Thomson's performances, and Rozhdestvensky provides a more lyrical conducting that doesn't necessarily sound underpowered. I don't like my Nielsen sound extremely virtuosic and fast all the time. For me, the faster doesn't mean the better (not always). Just my two cents.
Except I never said "the fast the better." You are making that up. Thomson is very quick, but also slipshod and lacking in tension. Like what you like, but don't invent straw men or mischaracterize what I said.
Awful sound the Unicorn recording by Horenstein but I love the rim shots the snare drummer plays. Best mayhem of all the performances on record.
Yes I like the side drums attempt to usurp the world created in the adagio. I think in many performances the side drum allows too much space for the adagio. Interpreting the Composer's remark in early editions, I think the side drum should be played in the ad lib passage so that the audience would rather hear the drum, not the adagio. The drum cadenza in the Horenstein performance come close. Apparently there's one by Alfred Dukes on the drum which I haven't heard.
👏👏👏
What are those things, potatoes?
@@DavesClassicalGuide applause brother!!!😄you're the best!
@@bingbongtoysKY Well then, thanks!
@@DavesClassicalGuide absolutely brother! thank you! you're Owner's manuals are some of my absolute favorite books- what a blast it was to see you have your channel!!! I can't stop watching them- 👏👏👏😄
@@bingbongtoysKY Wow! Three potatoes! I'm honored.
I've always wanted to hear the Oramo recordings but unfortunately BIS seems to not care about their catalog and let's anything good they have go out of print, so I'll have to stick with Bernstein, Schonwandt and Blomstedt in San Francisco.
All Bis CDs are available, maybe in your country the distributor doesn’t have them in stock. I can help but I’m in Italy, let me know…
They are available on BIS online store.
I just listened to the Oramo here on CZcams (on the basis of this video review), after really only listening to Blomstedt/SFS since it first came out in the 1980s, and GOOD GOD is it amazing. Both the performance and the recording are significantly better in my opinion. It’s gone straight onto my short list of recordings to trot out when some metal head says “what makes classical music so great?” which I can answer with “just sit down and listen to THIS”, knowing with confidence that it will blow their mind and make the point clearly in every possible way.
@@albertofiabane4746 Perhaps country is the issue. I haven't seen half of the BIS recordings that I've looked for over the years available in the USA via any of the normal CD marketplaces. They are always unavailable. Maybe they just aren't interested in the US market?
@@fred6904 Unfortunately purchasing from overseas is often not very straightforward. Would be nice to find a distributor in the USA as most bank cards automatically decline overseas purchases due to fraud.
I have been listening to the Blomstedt SFO recording and its pretty good. There is a nice video on CZcams of Blomstedt conducting the Beethoven 4 followed by this symphony with the Bayerische radio symphony orchestra. Also, in a lighter vein, your singing of the themes is terrible, Dave ! :) Out of tune : ) : )
I have a cold, not that it would be in tune anyway.