How Do We Know the Early Church? - Dr. William Marshner
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 12. 2014
- Former Lutheran scholar Dr. William Marshner explores the sources of information about the early church and used by early Christian historians. How did early Christians learn and pass on the faith?
(This talk was originally given in 2004 at the CHNetwork's "Deep in History" conference)
About the Deep in History Talks from the CHNetwork:
The early period of the growth of Christianity (ca. A.D. 50-700) is a rich source for learning how the earliest disciples and apostles of Jesus Christ passed on the “faith delivered once and for all to God’s holy ones” (Jud 3). From Ignatius of Antioch in the early second century to Gregory the Great in the early seventh, the story of the Church’s proclamation in winning over pagan culture to Christ is widely diverse in practice and wonderfully unified in doctrine. The faith of these early Saints inspires and challenges us to live more deeply in love with Christ and in continuity with our forbearers in Christ.
We hope these resources take you deep into the history of Christ's Church and thereby deeper into Christ. Please visit:
DeepinHistory.com
CHNetwork.org
Dr Marshner is hilarious! Truth bathed in humour.
Even as a former atheist I knew already the Catholic Church was the first Christian church. Now I am a proud Catholic convert. Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ
Yes I don’t understand how some think otherwise. It’s merely out of prejudice against the Church. Glad you’re back. Praise be to The Lord
What evidence do you have that the Catholic Church was the first Christian church?
@@cbooth151 the Church Fathers themselves and the theology they have align with the teachings of the Catholic and Orthodox churches.
@@PoderHispano That's not answering my question. The Catholic Church didn't even exist in the days of Jesus and his apostles.
@@cbooth151 yeah that's not true. Ignatius of Antioch: "wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the catholic church.". Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of John the Apostle.
I am enthralled by this wonderful presentation. To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant. I love this historical approach.
John Henry Newman!
To be neither protestant, catholic, nor jew is the only way.
Christian in the church of Christ, with A cappella singing is thee way.
you all prolly dont care at all but does anyone know a tool to log back into an instagram account..?
I was dumb lost the login password. I love any assistance you can give me!
@Chris Alejandro instablaster ;)
@Conrad Xzavier i really appreciate your reply. I found the site through google and im in the hacking process now.
I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
I'm mexican , simply God bless this man , briliant .
God bless you and your people who were touched by the lady of Guadalupe
Church History is very important and should be taught in our 21st century churches. I have an Appreciation for Church History teaching. Blessings to you, Dr. Marshner.
If actual Church history WAS taught in the 21st century, there would be NO Protestant churches/denominations by the 22nd century.
He speaks very scholarly and very clearly.
Dr. Marshner could keep speaking another couple hours and I'd happily listen. In fact I wish he would have.
Lots of really interesting talks end far too soon.
indeed. So few of his work on the web
The Latin ordo of the Holy.mass ceases to be Roman where the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church is founded and officiated was changed from the church language of Virgil into.that one of the language of Shakespeare; however Rome is still where the the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church reside; not in England where Henry VIII had started his protestant Anglican Church and spread his defiance against the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church .
The Pope surrendered part of the cornerstone of the language of the True Church of Christ, to the language of Henry VIII not by Henry VIII 's doing ; but by the influence of the popularity of the international language of business communication.
But why?
Is the Roman Catholic Church or the Pope still in Rome?
Is the birth of the True Church of. Christ bathed with the persecuted blood of the Roman Christian martyrs and he blood of the early 30 martyrs among the popes of the True Catholic Church , and the Church of the Martyrs who had given their life and blood to the survival of the Church still Rome?
Would the first 39 papal martyrs cease to be said in the Latin rite of the Ordo of the Holy mass of Roman martyrs at the altar of what? of spreading the international communication language of commerce, and forgetting the history of the sacrifice of the early Church at the time of the reign of the cruelty of paganism ?
Jesus Castanares Do you have a point?
@@aldousjove Where can I see/listen to more?
Protestant here, learning about the early Church. Most enlightening. It was a more formalised than I expected. PS. Dr Marshner should become a voice actor.
lol, you are right about his voice! Catholic here. One of the most wonderful subjects of study is the Apostolic Fathers and the Church Fathers. They are refreshing! I hope you enjoy it just as much as I do.
@@RinaldoDegliAlbizzi i will be sure to do that! Been listening to the early letters of the saints such as Ignatius, Clement, etc. My gratitude for what they sacrificed to establish our faith only increases.
Another Protestant here, I too am learning about the early church. Also learning about the Orthodox Church.
@mrniceguy3006 the Orthofox Church left Jesus' Church.
Outstanding, the mission of the Church fathers is alive and well!
4 pages of notes later I realize how much this video brought out my nerd... Thank you for this!
A full year of study in under one hour. Thank you, Dr.Marshner and the Coming Home Network.
I could sit and listen endlessly to Dr. William Mashner. More of Dr. Mashner, please!!!!!
U can find a lot in institute for catholic culture.. I found quite a few of his talks there... U need to go into their website and search for marshner
This was an awesome presentation.
Fantastic. Love the history of our faith!
It is wonderful to have persons that had little time for television, and gives us the powerful history of God's work to save all who trust in The Gospel of God.
Isaiah chapters 1-3
Reverend is mentioned only one time in the Bible, and it is ONLY
in reference to GOD!!!!
PSALM 111:9
@@walterlahaye2128
Walter,
There's nothing wrong using words not written in the Bible. The word "Bible" itself is not written in the Bible. Do you want to complain about the use of the word "Bible" as well?
Reverend only means a revered person. Typically a teacher or a member of the clergy.
@@joecastillo8798 ,
I don’t know what you’re talking about!
@@walterlahaye2128
Walter,
If you want to claim ignorance it suits you well. Your comments prove it.
It is quite evident you are totally ignorant of what the Catholic Church founded by Christ teaches or practices.
Get informed!
I'm pleased to have found this lecturer,
Absolutely outstanding!
Very educational and very deep. Thank you
We have to get this family back together.
Thank you Dr Mashner for the great talk
This is very interesting, thank you very much!
Excellent !
I'm So glad Christ's direct message to us, that He gave personally, writing His Laws on our Our Hearts, placing His Words in our mouths, are gained by coming to Him, as little! Children!! not adults, not teenagers, not many wise, not needing any theological dispute validated but by "coming {running} to Him as Children..." For such is The Kingdom of God."
Love this comment!❤
Brilliant, thank you!
brilliant man
in the Blessed Sacrament chapel in our church you can feel the Presence of Our Blessed Lord. Its like a cloud. I dont feel anything at all in protestant churches...theyre empty. Case closed.
I don't put a lot of stock in feelings, but I can say for certain that the fist time I set foot in a perpetual adoration chapel, I felt silly. I felt like I was entertaining idolatry, and I kept asking The Lord to forgive me if I was offending him. When I stepped out, there was something going on inside me that was undeniable. I had looked at the host in the monstrance, and sincerlly asked; it this really You? That was in 2001. I was recieved into the Holy Catholic Church during Easter vigil 2008. "Behold I will not leave you orphans."
ryeis1 exposition seems to be the best
I can read & feel that the enemy is really working in the world today to take with him to the LAKE OF FIRE AS MANY AS POSIBLE!!! IN REVELATION IT SAYS THAT ONLY A REMANT WILL BE SAVED: THOSE ARE THE SAINTS THAT KEEP THE LAW OF GOD AND HAVE THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR💌🙏🙏🙏💟
I've actually been to a Liturgy of Saint James at a Syriac Orthodox Church. it's a bit like Byzantine liturgy which I've also been to at a Melkite Greek Catholic church multiple times.
Oh so that was the liturgy of the hebrew catholics is saw
That intro 🔥
Brilliant
Praise God...
Cool, good preacher very clear.
Great!
Thank you for this video. I look forward to watching more from this channel.
This is a great talk. I've listened to it several times. I wish he would have talked longer. Beautiful.
Brilliant presentation!! God bless you dr W Marshener..
Thank God!
Moral of the story: a German is always to blame.
What goes on in German history that causes so much antagonism to come from there?
A lot of modernistic textual criticism ,that denied gospels truthfulness , came from the Germanic schools of philosophy . It was part of required reading for church history and intepretation of the Bible - Alders on Genesis is a good example . So it's not against German people but the school of thought that came out of there and other areas that followed quickly
And because of that it's hard to find a country as hostile as Germany regarding religion, or anything that is good and holy.
Look at the battle of Teutoburg Forest. Germans seem to enjoy being difficult. I know, that's my background.
Amazing opening. I've asked myself that question so many times.
Does anybody know the reference that Dr. Marshner uses when he says the second most depicted person in the catacombs is Peter at 212 times? I cannot find this in a search. It’s at 18:19 mark
"You know these pictures were not drawn by Southern Baptists"😂 I wasn't expecting that comment!
Wonderful
Dustin Quick Wonderful or wondering ?
interesting you mention monarchies not evolving into Republics. There's actually a movement in France to restore the monarcy. I support it if it brings people back to the Church
Splendid
I'd like to hear more about this subject, does anyone have any suggestions?
Dr. Scott Hahn (former evangelical pastor), Bishop Robert Barron and Dr. Brant Pitre all tackle the subject from various perspectives. You will find them here on CZcams. 🙂
Allot in this chanel( steve ray, brant pitre, scott hanh, etc)
Marshes definitely knows this truth..
The richness of Catholic orthodoxy. Too few current proponents or hearers.
ichthus - The total core truth and authority went to Rome, with the likes of SS. Peter and Paul, and the Keys went with them. "Halt, who goes there?" "The Keys." "Whose Keys?" "Peter's Keys" {Given to Peter AND his successors, by Jesus, and with Jesus' divine authority.]
Exactly when did actor Richard Dreyfuss convert to Catholicism and start giving lectures on the early Church? :)
In all seriousness, that was a great lecture, Dr. Marshner. God Bless.
Now that's funny.
Hah yes, though His voice is the most similar.
I'm disappointed he didn't mention depictions of the Mother of God. Weren't there any? I believe there's a tradition about the Evangelist Luke having painted a portrait of her...
As a Protestant, I wondered about the same. Maybe she wasn't so popular back then?
@@mortensimonsen1645 Maybe not, but I'm sure that by the time of the council of Ephesus (431 AD) there were popular revolts in Constantinople when its Patriarch Nestorius held publicly that Mary should not be called the Mother of God (theotokos). Further manifestations of popular joy ensued right after the council deposed him and declared his doctrine heretical, and the crowds took Cyril (Alexandria's patriarch who had led the opposition to the heresy) on their shoulders and paraded him through the streets of Ephesus, proclaiming him a hero. Such outpouring of popular enthusiasm could not have been possible absent a deep rooted and widespread conviction about the divine maternity of Mary in the people's imaginary and devotion. And such a level of popular emotion takes several generations to take root.
@@xaviervelascosuarez Interesting. I have a very positive view on Catholicism, but I guess the Mary-devotion is the biggest hurdle to actually become a Catholic. I have read a book about that theology, so I kind of understand some of the background for all the Mary-doctrines, but still, it seems a little too much. I guess I fear many (not all or even the most of the Catholics) are lead into some sort of idolatry?
@@mortensimonsen1645 Hi, I tried replying you but CZcams seems to think I write too much, so I posted my reply in my blog. We can continue the conversation there, if you want: buasco.wordpress.com/2020/07/09/mary-and-the-protestants/
@@mortensimonsen1645
Morten,
Think of the emotion you feel on Mother's Day for your dear mom. As you remember those emotions you are feeling what Catholics think and feel about Mary, the Mother of God and our Mother, as per Jesus will at the Cross.
In conclusion, no worship, just love and a thankful emotion for her prayers 🙏 for us in Heaven, before her Son.
God bless, brother
Where there pictures of Mary on the catacombs?
The Greek word "dia" is also translated "for". These articles of speech are pretty fluid. So it can be translated "through", "by", "for" and "because of" and maybe other words as well.
Jesus was delivered up "because of" (dia) our offenses and He was raised again "because of" (dia) our justification (Romans 4:25 ASV).
@@po18guy - My PhD in theology? I am a believer. Most PhDs in theology are Atheists. I don't need that. I have access to Greek dictionaries. I am able to define words and see the context in which they are used. I don't have any denomination to defend, therefore, I am free to allow the scriptures themselves lead me instead of me forcing my denominational bent on the text.
Omg, thanks forma the info, thanks!
Brilliant truth!
Kerri B Brilliant Hokus Pokus
+BLUEBIRD Did Jesus say: "Hokus Pokus, your sins are forgiven." Lets see what Jesus does say in Mark 9: 5"Which is easier, to say, '(Hokus Pokus) Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, and walk '? 6"But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins "-- then He said to the paralytic, "Get up, pick up your bed and go home." 7And he got up and went home.… R. Zell
BLUEBIRD
I am researching this video and suddenly I have question for you I didn't think of before. In considering how Tertullian handled the folks popping up saying THEIR church was true (Gnostics)...he told them to prove that their church leaders came from the Apostles (they couldn't of course). So I ask you the same...let's rely solely on historical data here...
Show us that whatever church you belong to has a leader that was ordained by someone who had apostolic succession. Can their leadership (lineage) be traced backward to the first Apostles?
+Kerri B -------- I must quote John Henry Cardinal Newman: "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant." I get a big laugh out of my protestant friends trying to squeek out the "pillars of Protestantism" out of the scriptures and out of the early church fathers. ----------- One of the questions I usually ask my "big P" protestant friends is "Where did Luther get the Apostolic Authority to reopen sacred scripture and add the word "Alone" after the word "Faith" in Romans 3:28. The usual answer is that the Holy Spirit guided him to change scripture. My followup question is that "the Holy Spirit failed to guide the Church Jesus established and prayed for, for 1500 years?" So Kerri, Bluebird will be unable to answer your question unless he changes History, changes the Words of Jesus and ignores the Early Church Fathers. I've found that many of todays militant protestants are trying to rewrite the history of the early church in an effort to discredit the Catholic Church. So my question to Bluebird is: Show me your Church in Scripture? And show me where Jesus says something that isn't "Truth." Hokus Pokus? I don't think so. Blessings,R Zell
Kerri B Who could try to stop God from saving even a no-church man of today who comes to Him with full of faith and humble / repentant heart ?
that was fun!
at 4.56 I figured out...this guy is some type, of Catholic....any guesses on why I knew this...
Why is the cross of the crucifix shown at the beginning of your program is bend they said that bent cross is the cross of witchcraft just like the cross of pope john paul 2
Its the cross of st.peter. up side down he was crucified.
Majority of pagan symbology is just the hijacking of Christian symbology with their spin on it. For instance the upside down cross was Peter's crucifixion, he felt unworthy to be cricified like Christ so he asked to be upside down. Pagans later hijacked the upside down cross as their own unholy image
42:15 had me laughing. That is brilliant.
I don't think that St Ignatius greets a bishop in Rome (interestingly). He talks of himself as a bishop from the East in that letter, but he does not address by name any bishop in Rome itself.
@Allan Brown
Allan,
As you know, Ignatius was being taken to Rome as a prisoner condemned to die. For the Roman Emperor it was a prized trophy to capture Christian Bishops who, according to his thinking, were a threat to his empire since their loyalty and worship were not on him but on one named "Chrestus", according to ancient writers like Suetonius.
James D.G. Dunn states that most scholars infer that "Suetonius misheard the name 'Christus' (referring to Christ) as 'Chrestus'" and also misunderstood the report and assumed that the followers of someone called Chrestus were causing disturbances within the Jewish community based on his instigation.
Ignatius, logically, would not have identified the Bishop of Rome or his location so as to keep him safe from capture and consequent death. Also, recall The Book of Revelation with its veiled language that could only be deciphered by his Christians readers, in case the letters were intercepted, who knew the terminology and were able to receive the needed message of hope in Christ.
Now you understand. Pass it along.
May God bless your discernment.
True church foundation and template is in book of acts.
Still for sale priests and bishops
First Edition (2)
View Offers
Synopsis
With the whole Christian world looking on, we Catholics have entered a sometimes acrimonious debate with ourselves as to what should be expected of those who are in the special ministry of the Church, i.e, the priesthood-What manner of life should our priests live and what work should they do? Also under review is the role of the bishop, said traditionally to possess the fullness of the priesthood. We are asking whether the authority structure on all levels should be more collegial or democratic and what such a change would mean in light of the traditional theology of the episcopate. Ecumenically we are pondering our relationships to other churches in which there is no episcopate in apostolic succession -from the Preface
"synopsis" may belong to another edition of this title.
It began when the Edict of Serdica was issued in 311 by the Roman emperor Galerius, officially ending the Diocletianic persecution and not with Constantine. Licinius and Constantine , signed the Edict of Milan in 313, which offered a more comprehensive acceptance of Christianity.
read Isaiah 22 19 speaks of Keys means authority Simon called Peter being Jewish understood what Messiah had done. Remember gentiles apostles were Jewish Jesus his family first believers Jewish Matthew 16 18 was set up to have succession just as in Old Testament. What held Jewish faith Jews together God was head what has held Kingdom Jesus set up together called Catholic Latin for universal. God Jesus is our Head he is with us. Our faith never has changed. Our teachings are the same on marriage Divorce contraception John 20 23 confession Jesus instituted John 6 51 55 Jesus instituted
+ella hope _____ Out of all of Jesus' disciples he choose 12 to be Apostles and of the 12 Apostles, he choose one. I need to find that sermon. -------------- Without Apostolic succession, you cease to have an Apostolic Church. Think about what every Apostolic Church has in common? Each of these churchs: Catholic, Orthodox, Assryian Church of the East, Coptic, Syraic, to name a few, all have a www.mysticalbodyofchrist.com/blog/553/ RealPresence in the Holy Eucharist and each have martyrs from Apostolic times to even this very day. --------------- In Christ, R. Zell
This doesn't get to the answer to the question. Who knows if any of it is true ?
Who knows if any of Christianity is true.
@@kadeshswanson3991 it's all true
Fear of the LORD,
is the beginning of knowledge.
God resists the proud.
🤔🤔🤔🤨🤨🤨🥕🥕🍎🍎🍋🍋
Plutao evangelos gino unique and true church founded by jesus analysis *
“Image of the beast” were the popes of Rome in 536, at its inception. It became the deadly wound that was healed in REVELATION.
“Dark Ages” also sprang up that same year, lasting 917 years, until the final piece of the Roman Empire fell, on May 29, 1453. Interesting isn’t it?
@Walter LaHaye
I heard someone named "Walter" is the image of the beast.
As always you are full of ridiculous notions created out of your secrarian imagination.
@@joecastillo8798 ,
You know that catholicism’s diabolical don’t you?
@@walterlahaye2128
You know you are ignorant. Don't you?
@@walterlahaye2128
Walter,
Do you know what the pillar and foundation of truth is for a Christian?
Is it Scripture or is it the Church?
I bet you don't know!
@@joecastillo8798 ,
Yes, great question!
It’s the church of our Lord Jesus Christ!
(I TIMOTHY 3:15)
Why are Catholic the teachings different from what Christ and the apostles taught ?
A
Protestants don’t know the early Church
But it seems like some of the best defenders of the Catholic Church are former Protestants...
Morten Simonsen former is the operative word
@@mortensimonsen1645 That's because they can defend it with the Bible in their hands (and hearts and minds)!
@@PInk77W1 Not so sure about that... Protestants have on average put to shame Catholics in terms of scriptural knowledge, love for the Lord and apostolic commitment. There are some good cradle catholics evangelizers, but it does not surprise me in the lease that, again on average, the higher number of effective commited evangelizers are brethren who came back home.
Xavier Velasco-Suarez I said Protestants.
I didn’t say converts
As home churches began to grow in number the need arose for bishops to oversee, help, and advise those churches. This went on all over the world. Every area that had more than a few churches had a bishop. Rome had a bishop, north Africa had a bishop, Antioch had a bishop, and so on.
Because Rome was the seat of power over the whole world at that time the Roman Bishop accumulated more and more power. But this developed over centuries not decades.
The Eastern Orthodox broke off from the Roman church around 400 AD.
All Catholics are Christian,; catholic means universal. The Roman Catholic Bishop gradually consolidated power over the other Bishops.
So the Roman Catholic church is rooted in lust for power and control over those in that denomination. This is the reason Roman Catholic leaders murdered hundreds of people because those people wanted to translate Latin into their own language so they could read the word of God for themselves. Roman Catholic priests and popes fought this for hundreds of years! They wanted the people to come bow down and worship them not God. It was about maintaining power over the people.
The Catholic Popes murdered tens of thousands of Huegonauts in France, in a short amount of time.
So the Catholic Church is not special. It is flawed just like all the other denominations are flawed. It is flawed because man is flawed.
As he points out, Apostolic Succession (a doctrine foreign to the scriptures) DEPENDS on the respecting of persons. Because this apostle appointed this guy, then he's infallible. Not because the guy is filled with the Holy Spirit but because some human appointed him.
The apostle Paul almost BRAGGED that he wasn't appointed by ANYONE - except God Himself. If Paul believed in apostolic succession then he would certainly not have done what he did and gone where he went.
God is no respecter of persons. God tells His people to be not respecters of persons. And when God commands it, people have GOT to violate that commandment because that's what we do.
ii
I always think if the St James Bible was again formed in the 1850 in England and Books taken out then the Reformed Churches are on weak ground. Having listen to Reformed Christians talk about why there Congregation or Elders fall out about the meaning of Scripture then form more devolved Churches because they cant agree on the interpretation of the Bible then you see the problem. Not to Mention Gnositism and Belief in Jesus as only a Prophet like in Islam. Everytime an Apparition of Jesus, Mary or a Saint appears tp a Jew, Muslim, Agnostic or Christian I think just believe. Just listening to the previously agnostic Father Donald Calloway who had audilble apparitions of Jesus when he said to this agnostic teenager who in his first mass said Worship when the he saw the body and blood of Christ for the first time. I think not just the Saints like St Francis who heard Jesus say rebuild my Church which he indeed did or even the Modern day Sister Briege who Jesus said in the Chaple Briege you can heal illness in Jesus name. Their are thousand of these testimonies so we need to believdle in our Jesus in the blessed sacrements of the Holy Church. I think of Father Periera in Medjugorje having an apparition like the Children their or in Fatima or any other apparitio sitez
This guy is a hoot and a half
The three-dunk baptism method is never described in the New Testament. If we're going by what the apostles did and sticking with that model then a single immersion is all that's necessary. Baptism symbolized the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (see Romans 6). Jesus wasn't buried three times, He was buried once and raised once. Just because some goofball from the third century says otherwise does not make it true.
Jesus, the Son of God, was prophesied by the prophets. The trinity doctrine was NOT a later theology developed by man. The prophesy that He would be called Emanuel (which is being interpreted, God with us) or that "ye shall call His name Jesus for He shall save His people from their sins" Who can save us from our sins save God alone??? The message that Jesus is God has been there since before His advent.
Jesus, the Son of God, has been there from the beginning. John points that out in His Gospel. Paul talks about it in His epistles. People didn't roll that doctrine years later. "All things were made by Him and for Him", Paul writes to the Colossians. Jesus is the Creator God! (And I don't care what the Nicene Creed says.)
Peter never baptized in the trinitarian formula as he stated, or perform the act as he described.
What
@@jlouis4407 Denial 101. Not you, Frederick.
@@SuperIliad Major cope, there were lots of arguments against christianity by pagans, not one was that Jesus or his followers never existed.
@@jlouis4407 To the best of my knowlede, you are correct.
I’m interested in this topic but could this guy be anymore smug? Not the way to present this material.
He's smug because his arguments are facile and somewhat silly without the snark.
I think he's just trying to be funny... I guess it doesn't work for some.
I was under the impression that there wasn’t truly deference to Rome until Leo I since the other four major Christian cities were so much more populated with Christians. Is that wrong?
yes. deference was to Peter , who was chosen to lead by Christ Himself, and not to a place.
+Lark Bird well yes, by deference to Rome I meant deference to the bishop of Rome, not the city.
Oh. Sorry. I thought since you spoke of other cities being so much more populated...
I could hear he speaks mockingly.
"A silk purse does not evolve into a sow's ear" Let's talk about it. The apostle Paul predicted that there would be a great falling away (see 2 Thessalonians 2:3). He told the Ephesian bishops that their church would rot from within. (see Acts 20:29-30)
That silk purse did indeed DEvolve into a sow's ear. It happens all the time. It's called "fallenness". You cannot have a church stay true to God for more than a generation or at the outside, two. There is no such thing as a second generation Christian. Falling away is what humans love to do. It's awful.
At 8:50 regarding Peter allegedly appointing Clement as his successor in Rome... How could Peter be the apostle to the gentiles of Rome when Jesus said that the 12 would be judges of the 12 tribes and in Acts 15 it was decided that Peter was to go to the circumcision (IE: Jerusalem, Judea), as Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, was sent "far away to the nations"? This same scriptural decision prevents Paul from being the author of To the Hebrews. And it forbids the Catholic claim that Peter appointed Clement. And in the canonical epistle of Paul to Rome he mentions about 28 people, but never Peter, Linus or Clement! There's something fishy in all this, no?
Also, doesn't Matthew 28:19's formula contradict the accounts in Acts of the baptisms and Paul's teachings about baptism being into Christ's death? Did the "Trinity" die? Again, very suspicious all around.
Also, the "eucharist" (a Passover meal) was intended by Jesus to be "until he comes" to destroy the earthly temple. Once he did that the Passover of the Jews "disappeared" along with the rest of the Sinai covenant:
[Heb 8:13 NET] (13) When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.
Again, more fishy stuff.
Also, no one knew the provenance of Hippolytus and guesses abound regarding this "patrson saint of horses". A very questionable source.
That's the view from here...
🤣🤣🤣🤣they were not drawn by baptists for me
This guy would be much more palatable (and thus acceptable) if he would better mask his arrogance. It weakens his position. The more arrogantly you deliver information, the more you appear to be making up for a lack of confidence in its accuracy. "Talk to me like I'm a simpleton, state your position emphatically, and it will appear as beyond dispute." He undermines his position by insisting on condescension. It's a shame, really. I think what he's talking about has substance to it, but it's quite an upstream struggle to separate it for objective observation/contemplation.
Fsb-u-lous
the Early church history facts backs Catholicism. But once you get into the 5th and 6th centuries, all "religion" looks like a violent forced-upon movement upon non believers and heretics. It would not have sold well upon Native Americans in America, if they had known in advance, the church history in Europe during the 5th -7th centuries. They would not have wanted to hear the missionaries at all. Christianity today is a LOT MILDER and less dangerous than it was in the pre 1700s. Is not this why the Pilgrims and Puritans left Europe to discover America?
The Pilgrims and Puritans left England due to persecution by the Anglican church - RCC was equally persecuted and some left to form Baltimore or headed to William Penn's region. Native American and 4-8cetnury is not a fair comparison - society and structure much different and Church was the centerpiece of rule -but 'secular' government meted out any consequences ,often not endorced by the local priests or Rome.
Dr. Marcher is as shrewd as a snack as mentioned by Jesus, but he has forgotten to be simple like a dove. He has picked fractions from history to suit his collusion and rebels from Catholic Church to achieve his hatred. Why he does not quote from Scott Hahn and Steve Ray as they have proved from committed Protestant pastors to devoted Catholics. I dare you to take on them in debate.
but the big "sell" problem of historic catholocism when reviewing church history, is the Inquisition, and the great persecution of Protestants. And then the killings of many "heretics". On other hand, without Catholocism, we would not have a finished bible, we would not have Defenders of our Faith against the many evil heresies that were in fact dangerous heresies, and we would not have bible scholars preserving bible manuscripts inside monasteries during the dark ages.
LOL so wrong it's kind of funny.
Laughable your understanding of history.
Catholicism also prevented Europe from being islamicized through the crusades, almost all the Christians in the middle east were wiped out and are now muslims due to muslim conquests, 112 million Christians were killed be muslims. the protestants also persecuted catholics in great Britain for a very long time btw
536 A.D. also gave birth to the popes of Rome “the deadly wound that was healed” in REVELATION.
The communion is not the Eucharist.
Eucharist means, Give thanks,
It doesn’t mean communion, nor does it mean, the Lord’s supper!
You probably never heard of the todah then. Lol
@@markv1974 ,
You’re self deluded and self deceived
Jermanian is to be blamed for protestiamiesd the protestian church.png
How do we know the early church? That's simply. *READ YOUR BIBLE!!*
😂🙄
@@Michael-yl9rl What does that mean?
The Church predates the Bible by centuries. Not every single thing in Christendom can be reduced to the Bible which the Catholic Church compiled btw at Nicea
So history ends when the Book of Acts ends?
@@jlouis4407 Before Jesus returned to the spirit realm, he gave one final command to his followers, saying: "Go, then, to all peoples everywhere and make them my disciples:...and teach them to obey everything I have commanded you." (Matt. 28:19, 20) Now, look at the list above and tell me what Catholic teachings Jesus commanded his apostles to teach new disciples.
Priests and bishops is the cornerstone of the move to the ecumenical drive by the vatican in NZ the roman church allow methodists baptists Coe and pentecostals to have holy communion. I questioned the priest he said no the old ways are changed. The priesthood dominating in NZ are Marists, always in mufti clothing. Deny the parables. Dont like statues. Dismiss the rosary offer open confession 1 x week . Three priests
So: in other words the Catholic and Protestant Churches got it all wrong: & only the folowers of Jesus Christ & Apostles had the True Religion & kept the 10 Commandments + Babtism by inmersion +The Bread: Wine & Washing of feet & Receiving The Holy Spirit & Preaching The Gospel To The Whole World till Jesus returns in Glory to take us to Heaven ... 🙏 ❤
Lady you are lost, have you even seen the video and listened to what he saying?
Again dogmatic presentation, they go by the church fathers,not the Jewish influence of the gospels. In acts 2v38 thats the formula from Peter!!! 1 john said many anti Christ's in his day.
Because they already lived like Gentiles in the very early Church? “But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, ‘If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews’”? Galatians 2:14
How come both Catholic and Protestants forget the only commandment that starts with "Remember"? Exodus 20 King James Version (KJV). 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. The early church kept the Sabbath. Man changed the day. Who will you follow? God or man?
The early church kept Sunday....
@@footballtraininganddevelop1522 Jesus worshiped on Saturday. He is out example.
Our.
@@dwightsornberger8916 Jesus was a Jew :/ and lived a Jewish life :/ he kept the mosaic law which obligated you to worship/rest on Saturday....the law was fulfilled and left behind in the old covenant. The new covenant recognizes the day of rest/ worship as the Lord’s day (Sunday) in honor of his resurrection and the beginning of the new creation
@@dwightsornberger8916 let me ask you this were you circumcised on 8 days of being born like Jesus was ? And do you follow all 600+ mosaic laws like Jesus did?
This is going to be good. How Do We Know the Early Church? 50 cents says he doesn't include the New Testament in his evaluation or if he does, he gives it little credence. Catholics cannot stick to the New Testament because if they did, that whole organization would vanish. Catholicism is not based on the new Testament as its authority because it excludes all the error that makes Catholicism Catholicism.
Bummer I thought I was going to get an exposition of some early Church history (including toughts on Apostolic Fathers) instead I got a rather hostile defense of Catholisism. I think we can all agree we are in the last days right? 2 Thes. 2:3 talks of a great apostacy of the Eklessia before Christs 2nd coming. We are there! I choose to forsake sin, walk in the Power of the Holy spirit in love and truth owing all to God and the Human race. I choose to come out from among you religious hypocrites and be a light. To know NOTHING but Christ crucified. I have read Polycarp, Ingnatius, Irenaus the Didache etc. Nowhere do they justify the Catholic traditions of Mary worship or offering prayers to her or any saint. Nowhere do they force a man to be celebate in order to attain priesthood. No where do they imply that Christ gave them let alone any man save for the Apostles power to forgive sin. Christ is the head of man with all authority not the Church and not man. The Catholic Church has killed so many innocents that the thought makes me agonize in tears. Weather they early Church established Catholisim or not is irrelevant. What we have today in the Catholic Church is not what they had in mind. I suggest we all fast and pray and seek wisdom from God not instututions of modern day Pharicies. I beleive everyone here is seeking God and so I love you and I pray for you. I am sorry if I seem hostile. It is just passion.
Ricardo Roman Just curious.........we know that Christ said He came to establish His Church and that He would guide that Church into "all truth" until the end of time. My question to you is, do you think that, after suffering ignominy on the cross, it doesn't matter to our Lord whether or not we follow His Church?
S Terry Sorry it took so long to respond to your question. Firstly you asked me "Do I think It matters to Christ weather or not we follow his Church?" (Im paraphrasing you here) I believe the so called Church is in the condition it is in today because men think the scriptures mean this or that.. So I do my best to study the scriptures and discern it's meaning by the Holy Spirit. Mathew 16:18 Simon responds to Jesus' question "who do you say I am" by saying "You are the Christ" to which Jesus says "Flesh and blood didn't reveal this to you but my father in Heaven" Then he renames him Petros (meaning Rock or foundation) and says upon this Rock (the foundation of faith) I will build (oikodomeo- to be a house builder, consruct or confirm. Build up, edify or embolden) my church (eklessia- a calling out, a popular meeting especially a religious congregation. Assembly) This in no way implies that the Eklessia means a building or denomination. The Church simply means the congregation of the called out ones. Jesus says in Mathew 16:18 that upon the model of the faith of Peter (the foundation being faith) he will confirm,construct, embolden, build his body of believers. When you say "Follow his Church" that does not sound scriptural. True believers are to congregate together in Spirit and Truth to break bread, pray and hear the word. We are to follow the Holy Spirit. If a house of worship (which is not the church but the meeting place of the church) is in error we are to flee. I have walked with the Jesus for close to 25 years. I have been everywhere (starting out as an alter boy in the Catholic denomination) I've been in ministry all over the United States and have visited every denomination under the sun. It is my belief that none are 100% scripturally sound. They all err in certain areas and have become an institution of commerce. They are not the Church of Christ. The Sheep are his Church. Where is the Church in Syria or the Sudan? Where ever God leads them. Homes, blown out buildings, Jungles or where ever. Believe me when I tell you (or don't) God is not in organised denominations. They are Apostate and preach a false gospel. Jesus is coming for a Bride without spot or wrinkle. Yes he did say "Lo I am with you even till the end of time" Catholics think he is not talking about Baptists or Lutherans. Methodists believe this does not refer to Catholics or Pentecostals. I believe Jesus is speaking to the man or woman has forsaken all to follow him not the Pope or the Preacher man.
Ricardo Roman OK.....there's a lot to unpack there, but let's stick to the basics. It sounds like you do believe it matters to Jesus whether we follow His Church (though you have a different idea on what that Church "is" or "means) ........Yes?
It is my view that, if we love God and want to be with Him, we should endeavor to find out exactly what He meant and do what He intended with regard to His Church. Your description indicates that you have been influenced largely by relatively newly-invented ideas of what Christ's Church is. Do you think it would be important to investigate how the Apostles taught "Church" to their followers? How the early Christians interpreted passages of the scriptures such as the ones you cited?
In other words......we all know what the bible SAYS, but we disagree sometimes on what it MEANS. Would it be wise to compare our understanding with the way the early Christians understood these things?
S Terry I agree. I've read. Polycarp, Irenaus, 1st and 2nd Clement, Ignatius, Barnabas the Didache, Fragments of Papias some of the Shepherd of Hermas, and some others. As far as 1st 2nd and 3rd Century apologists Ive read Justin and some of Augustines confessions. The only place I find where someone is pushing for obedience to man is Ignatius and the Didache. The Didache is obviously flawed and not altogether trustworthy. Specifically chapter 6. Ignatus seems to be having trouble with believers going off into error. Therefore he exhorts them to "do nothing apart from the Bishop. Again his leters are unique to his circumstances. None of the others wrote in that manner. No where in the cannon of scriptures for that matter do Jesus, Peter, Paul or any others speak on the authority of the "Church". Paul instructs on Church order in his letters to Timothy and maybe elsewhere but again nowhere does he instruct man to rule over the people. In fact He does mention "latter days where men will give heed to seducing Spirits and doctrines of Devils. 1Tim 4:1. In 1 Tim 6:5 he istructs Timothy to "Withdraw" from ridiculous teachers. Again in the latter times (which we are in) 2 Thes: 1-3 warns of the Apostate Church. So yes the early Body of Believers The Church was sound. Augustine began to corrupt the Church with his Neo Platonist and Gnostic Thought. (Im sure youd disagree) and then Martin Luther and Calvin hit the home run with their interpretations of the Bible resulting in what we have today outside of the Catholic Church. But so you know where I am at spiritually (in case you are truly concerned or curious) I have turned from all known sin in my life because Jesus said to repent. I believe fidelity to The Truth God has given us is a prerequisite for more knowledge. Secondly I have positioned myself to learn from the Scripture (and some extrabiblical literature namely the early Church) I have endeavoured to practice spiritual diciplines (giving, loving,forgiving, repentence, fasting and prayer) I do not indulge in the things that corrupt the mind and polute the soul like social media, secular music or TV. I have found that the Holy Spirit is teaching me. I am 42 years old and I have learned much these last 20 years observing the so called Church and its Priests, Elders, Bishops, Deacons or whatever titles they want to go by. I know more concretely than Ive ever known anything in my life that the Age of the Church has come to it's conclusion. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord. We will not be tainted by the leven of heritical doctrines and traditions of the denominations. I have found like minded bretheren with whom I can fellowship and God is moving. To me they/we are the Church.
Ricardo Roman You say, "to me" we are the Church. What was "the Church" to the apostles and the early Christians?
there is no evidence whatsoever that Mathew was originally written Aramaic. All references and writings were in Greek. The original Greek used two differentwords for Rock with two different meanings (why 2 different words if they meant the same) referred to by Mathew. Honest historians and theologins Roman catholic, Protestant catholic and atheist do not support an "Unbroken Chain" of Popes.
James - The common language of the Jews was Aramaic, the religious language tended to be Hebrew, and the court and legal languages tended to be Hebrew AND Greek. Matthew was an educated man, and someone who knew law, had been a tax-collector, and indeed had while a tax-collector played fast and loose with his own people and the concepts of morality and ethics - that is until a certain ex-carpenter passed by preaching, and invited him to follow Him. By the way, the general modern understanding of the Greek is often wrong or confused - as a for-instance, the word we take for meaning hand, can given the context, mean anything from the fingers to the elbow, or indeed the whole lot. We have to understand things in the language and understanding and culture of the time.
Truth Seeker This is nonsense. You are not being honest about what James is saying, and he is correct. Matthew was written in Greek simply because it was the common language of Hellenized first century Jews/Gentiles. Trying to infer Aramaic meaning by what is written clearly in the original language of the gospel of Matthew is ridiculous. Take the text for what it is, not what you'd like it be be for reasons of polemic.
Papias (lived in first and second century) wrote that Matthew was written from aramaic original version.
Whether Matthew was ever written in Aramaic is irrelevant. The point is that Jesus and the apostles spoke Aramaic daily and Jesus changed Simon's name to Kepha (Aramaic for "rock"). We see him called Cephas several times in the New Testament. Cephas is a Greek transliteration of the Aramaic, Kepha, whereas Petros is a Greek translation of Kepha.
The words that our Lord spoke in Matthew 16 were, "You are Kepha and upon this Kepha I will build my Church". When translated into Greek the proper word for rock was "Petra" so this is used where possible. However, one cannot use a feminine word for a man's name, so when the author referred to Peter's name he used the masculine form of Petra, which is Petros.
(It's a little confusing in English since we use an anglicanized version of a Latin transliteration of the Greek translation of the Aramaic word, Kepha. If you read a bible in other languages it is not so difficult.)
Additionally, all scholars agree that in the first century there was no difference in the meaning of Petra and Petros - they both simply meant "rock". Besides, the whole premise of that argument renders the entire passage silly; Over and over our Lord confers blessings on Simon
1. "Blessed are you, Simon bar Jonah...."
Why?
2. Because you received that knowledge as a direct revelation from My Father in Heaven.
3. "I will give you the keys to the kingdom of Heaven"
In that world, at that time, the conferring of keys was the sign of establishing an authoritative office upon someone (see Isaiah 22, for example)
4. "Anything you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven. And, anything you loose on Earth will be loosed in Heaven."
Binding and loosing were another sign of an assignment of special authority.
And why does our Lord pronounce all these special blessings upon Kepha according to the logic you've been taught?
5. Because you are an insignificant pebble, In fact, you are so insignificant that I bothered to change your name to show the world just how insignificant you are. And, never mind that I used the Aramaic word for rock, because I know that some smart Protestant will come along 1800 years from now and correct my mistake and show the world that what I really meant was to contrast you from the big rock just to show how insignificant I really think you are.
You have been misled. But, continue to seek the truth earnestly and you will find it. God is truth.
@@sterry1962 exactly!!.
If I was fooled by a spirit of intelligence, I might believe that I am not smart enough to receive the gracious salvation of Jesus Christ. Intelligence is not a god and neither is science. There is also no way that literature by men who are not mentioned in God's word should become the foundation for our faith. If you are as smart as your academic degrees suggest then you already know (according to the scriptures) that JESUS CHRIST IS THE PATTERN. Choose this day who you will serve. Will it be your brilliant minds, the bishops of your theological histories, OR the simplicity found in Christ Jesus? Don't be as the Gnostic churches making prayer sound so complex that people don't feel qualified enough to participate. If people have to know all that Dr. Marshner described, how will they ever pray at home, with their families, how will they develop confidence in the Lord? The translators of God's word were set of fire, hanged, and killed. It was all because they re-wrote God's word in ways that even the simplest of thinkers could understand it. Thanks to them we know that "God uses foolish things to confound the wise." But on the contrary you use your minds to disqualify people. I am sure you already have done that with me. These words are irrelevant to you because I have shown you no history and no credentials. Why don't you use your gift to empower people and to include them. Is there a such thing as a church that only has smart people? Did Christ die for theology, history, or church? or did He die for our sins? All of you, children of God know better than that. Its plain and simple. There are loving people coming forward with the true Spirit of God and we are prepared to lighten the burden. Enjoy your lectures while they last because they won't for long. Your boats are going to be rocked and you too will cry out for help. Then you will not have time to organize your prayer. You will cry out "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani". I know God loves you all (he loves us all) We are the same but was must rid the kingdom of this intellectual spirit and move on to perfection.
+Jamal D. Sanders
Jesus founded a church. ONE Church. He gave Peter the keys of the kingdom and the authority to bind and loose. He gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins. The bible says to hold to the traditions we have been taught whether orally or by letter. The Church Jesus established was not some loose, vague, invisible thing. It had a designated head (Peter) and a clear structure from the beginning. It had sacred tradition and established practices. It believed in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. It had a pope (Peter), bishops, deacons, and presbyters (priests). The bible was compiled by the Catholic Church, it is a Catholic book. You should fear a spirit of stupidity, not a spirit of intelligence. God gave us brains and we are supposed to use them. Jesus established one Church, it is Catholic. That is why you need the Church Fathers and history, so you can understand this. The Bible is just a selection of writings that the Catholic Church decided were inspired. Only the Catholic Church had the authority to compile it because Jesus gave it the authority.
You confirm for me with what method Satan used to destroy us. 1. he replaced the apostles with church offices. 2. he appointed himself as the only one with access to those offices 3. he took credit for the entire word of God. What this means is that no scripture I could teach you about would be credible enough for you, seeing as to how your traditions hold an exclusive version of God's word all together. Its not only a similar strategy that colts use to control people but its about as Gnostic as it gets. In the face of that, I'd be thrilled to be stupid. I am quite familiar with the teaching of Jesus and the history of the church, beginning with tabernacles, they weren't temples or churches as some people understand them. But it was David who set the foundations of the church. He had the heart of God to make a request. His request was that "He build God a dwelling place." Yet the tabernacle was just a "pattern". Similarly, your ideals about church are not the end of the story. It is a pattern (not completely wrong). But in the end we have to get back to God (remember the fall?). Isn't that the entirety of reconciliation? How long do you think God would suffer a priest to stand between Himself and his creation? Once the High Priest Jesus came back, the old covenant was fulfilled. Then that order of the church became obsolete (Thats scripture). Good job but lets move on to grace. Have you read the book of Hebrews or is the entire book missing from the Catholic Bible? If you had to pick a priestly order Aaron or Melchizedek, which order would you say most closely relates to the order of the church you've explained? Hebrews 8:4 states "If he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priest that offer gifts according to the law" -I would be honored to rightly divide this word. I do not hold loose doctrines, I stand firm in the scriptures and in the love of Christ. Lets talk..in sincerity. -Love Jamal
+Jamal D. Sanders
Of course I've read the book of Hebrews. There are no books missing from the Catholic BIble, it is the original and complete bible and has 73 books. Martin Luther removed 7 books of the Old Testament and he wanted to remove Hebrews and James and other books of the New Testament as well. The protestant bible contains only 66 books. I doubt I will convince you of the truth of the Catholic Church. I am tired of arguing with people on CZcams because it rarely goes anywhere. The Catholic Church compiled the New Testament. It decided which books were inspired. The offices of pope (Peter, the head), bishop, deacon, and presbyter (priest) are already established in the New Testament. The problem with just relying on God and scripture alone is that anyone can interpret it any way they like and all claim to be hearing from the "Holy Spirit" even when they hear entirely different things. Jesus established a clear authority. There is nothing vague and personal about the Church Jesus established through Peter and the apostles. It was ordered and structured and had a hierarchy from the beginning and it had authority. The Bible tells you to hear the Church and to hold to the traditions (taught orally from the apostles) as well as written. God's kingdom has authority and structure. Jesus gave the keys of the kingdom to Peter. I don't wish to argue and I'm not leaving the Catholic Church and you're free to believe as you wish. But consider looking into the Catholic Church, it has 2000 years of history, it comes directly from the apostles, and they know some things. Without authority there is chaos and confusion and division and strife. As you see in the entire non-Catholic world.
+Jamal D. Sanders
Actually the Catholic Church condemned gnosticism as heresy.
Why would I spend time researching the Catholic church when I can consult with God through Christ? Even if Christ gave the Catholic church authority, we would still be overshadowing the star of the show (so to speak). I suppose if you want to replace the Holy Spirit with (Church) thats fine. But all intellectualism and intelligence I side, that would not be in our best interest. In the end, we simply need the love of the Father. In talking to you, I have already asked him to help in these kind of situations. I do hope something good came out of this. -Fare Well:)
Interesting content, but I dislike his shrill and condescending style.