Entry-Level Espresso Grinder Shootout
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- čas přidán 25. 03. 2021
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In need of a starter espresso grinder? Get some purchasing advice on these grinders perfect for the budget conscious user just getting started. We’ve got the Rancilio Rocky, the Baratza Sette 30, the Breville Smart Grinder Pro, and the Mignon Notte here to compare.
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How did you read my mind? this is EXACTLY what I was looking for today and it gets posted mid search from other channels, thanks!
Same here. Kinda creepy! Get outta my head! Lol
The Sage/Breville grinder is very good for the money, I have the slightly cheaper and more basic version the Dose Control. Which is fine as it's internally the same just without the digital controls. Which I'd never use anyway.
Very nice breakdown of all the grinders!
reason retention on the Sette 30 was because you were holding the plate up too high causing the grounds to back up into the machine. very minimal retention on this with normal use i find.
my rancilio rocky still rocks after 18 years. i don't brew espresso, so for me it is ok from the pour over to the french press passing trough aeropress and dripping. for sure there are better grinder in consistency but it is really a tank and behind there is a real big company with customer support and a huge availability of replacement parts.
rocky bats way above its weight, a true espresso size grind, which soooo many grinders simply cannot get down too
Got a refurbished Sette 30 for home, and a used Rocky for the office. Rocky is quieter, slower, and produces static clumps. But it is hefty, and it allows realignment of gap between its burrs easier once you remove just 3 screws. Sette is fast, loud, and consistent, but I am not sure if it will last as long as Rocky. Timer on the Sette is a plus too.
The sette just has a cheap gearbox that fails every two to 3 year. its not expensive or difficult to swap but its sad.
thanks for this, will buy the Rancillo Rocky
The Breville is actually stepless. There are consistent/repeatable clicks and the display registers whole numbers, but the burr is mechanically linked to the dial and the dial is stepless -- you can stop between clicks. So the clicks are not true steps as much as they are cues for repeatability. Bonus -- the burr inside actually has additional steps (actually stepped) so that you may further refine your grind range between the clicks.
I think you’re not being fair on the Sette because looked at how close you put the plate to the grind exit thereby blocking a lot of the coffee grind from falling properly. The Baratza Sette whole design is about achieving minimal to zero retention and it works.
Not to mention that he has a lot of static which keeps a lot of the ground coffee sticking to the head.
Fair point! It was hard to see the backup from my angle. Will do a better job watching out for this looking at the Sette in the future, thanks for pointing this out! - Pat
Totally agree
i dont mean to be so offtopic but does someone know of a trick to log back into an Instagram account?
I was dumb forgot my account password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me
@Dangelo Adrian Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im trying it out now.
I see it takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
Great review. Very clear. Useful info.
Agree with not being fair. You only used about 2.5 seconds on the Rancilio Rocky. It also looks like you have the Rocky set at a finer grind, which promotes clumping more than slightly coarser grinds.
I get loads of retention on the rocky. Show me a close up of the rocky dispenser please.
I use a baster balloon to clear out the retention.
That was a very good comparison.
I've had my Notte for a month and I gotta be honest...I love it. It's exactly what I need. I know you can spend hundreds more for timers and displays...but why? I single dose because I like alternating what kind of coffee I drink, so the hopper is always empty anyway, and weighing grinds takes all of 6 seconds. After a few weeks of research, the Notte made the most sense. For half the price I'm sacrificing a timer and a metal portafilter holder. Makes sense to me.
is notte and manuale same model or both are different ?
@@PradipMohanty1990 As far as I can tell they're identical. They look the same, they have the same features. I think the Notte was a sale thing they did just for Seattle Coffee Gear.
@@Matein13 Yeah having a hard time finding the Notte in Europe. Looks like Manuale is a bit more expensive which sucks.
@@PradipMohanty1990 This might be a bit late, but they are the same model, the Manuale is the EU name for the Notte.
How did this guy manage to mess up the grind retention test on the sette so much? The fact that he wasn’t surprised at all makes me think this is the first time he has used it.
How's the view from up there on your high horse
@@negoblle How does the boot taste?
I’ve had the Breville Smart Grinder Pro for about a month, found my dials for espresso, siphon and French Press and very happy with it.
Where do you tend to sit for your french press and other brews? I've noticed my chemex and april getting choked out from fines even at higher settings like 55.
@@WombatPA Hmmm, that doesn’t sound good. On my Breville I use 8 on espresso, 40 for my K-Cups, 50 for my Vacuum Siphon brewer and around 55 for my French press. I do make sure to grind out everything before putting in new grounds.
@@ME-mf7xp I’m using an older Saeco Via Venezia machine with bottomless portafilter and single wall basket. The Breville Smart Grinder Pro is set at 8 currently and I use about 20grams of coffee a 53mm tamper to press it in to at least 30lbs of pressure in the basket. Instead of grinding more fine you may just need to add more coffee and tamp it down.
@@ME-mf7xp The 53mm basket with my Saeco is standard. If your bambino has high pressure and is pressing thru the filter too fast then the only way you can compensate is a finer grind and/or more grounds. I had to test mine thru different amounts of grind size and grams of coffee to get a good shot. The 20grams is for a double shot so it does overfill the basket but works well after tamping.
@@ME-mf7xp My pleasure Mohamad.
Very useful review thank you so much. Very articulate, to the point. I think you're one of the best reviewers out there on coffee matters, if not the best. You might even be a better reviewer than James Hoffmann.
In all fairness, the huge retention on the Sette was due to the fact that the plate was touching it, in such a way that the heap of coffee was forming inside the burrs. This shouldn't have happened otherwise. The Sette is designed to produce very little retention with its burrs at the very end.
Thanks to your review, I'm making my mind for the Mignon Notte. Even if you're doing a lot of efforts to be objective and nuanced, it's visible that the Mignon is your favorite ;)
Your retention test method really favors chuted units as that wont clear the grind chamber or the bend of the chute and will make the straight thru desing of the sette look worse as you will clear it completely with a little tap or two. the sette is the best if you are single dose grinding because of its straight thru design
Just in my experience, when you test for retention, you cant just tap the machine to see what comes out ... On a lot of machines, there is a lot of ground coffee between the hopper and the spout, which doesn't come out until you run it again. So what you need to test is with a fixed amount of coffee beans. Grind all the beans until the pitch of the machine tells you theres nothing left in the hopper. Then after 1 minute, start grinding again, with nothing added to the hopper. On a ton of machines, a substantial amount of coffee will come out...
Usually, some will try to dismiss this effect as "the machine just needs a lot of coffee in the hopper to continue applying weight". But that unfortunately doesn't change the fact that when you grind, the first bit of coffee comes out faster, and thats because its left over ground coffee from the last time you used the machine... In my experience this doesn't happen with all grinders, but its a massive shortcoming which I would have liked to have seen tested here.
True! I have the Rocky, and it has aLOT of retention.
Been looking at espresso grinders and trimmed our list down to either the Sette 30 or the SGP. I think for ease of purchase and serviceability in our country, we'll prolly go with the SGP.
Does the Eureka grinder do a Turkish grind or is that too fine? If so, will it also do on the other end pour over courser type of grind?
Any thoughts on the Lelit Fred? Currently considering it and the Breville SGP as a first espresso grinder.
If an entry-level grinder alone is $400, most of us can't afford a home espresso setup.
Absolutely! And just to add to the injury, using proper espresso machines/setups, as in controlling all and every aspects of coffee making, is way harder to get a good shot. Cheap espresso appliances from the likes of Breville and other one-click operation machines are way more consistent, even if what they do, being drinkable and all, cannot really be named an espresso. But with a proper setup, until you learn every step so you can control it in the exact way... it's way more easy to completely screw up and get horrific shots! But then again, when you do get all things right... man, drinking great espresso is such a delight!
Got myself a Gaggia Classic Pro recently, good tamper, i'm waiting for the Eureka Mignon grinder to arrive... all I can say is that the family cannot understand why it takes so much (including $$$) to just make yourself a cup of coffee in the morning and move on with your day :D
So yeah, with probably most other passions/hobbies (cycling, photography, etc), when you get past a certain point, the beginner/amateur level, it can get pretty expensive pretty fast...
@@DabblelyDiddly she is chill, and she's right.
@@Icipher4 130 is not 400. Try again.
$1200 grinder and expresso machine
Pays for itself in 1 year if you buy $4 drink every day. $.50 for beans
And what you can make yourself doesn’t compare
Think fast food vs home cooked gourmet meal.
The big chain makes me wretch now that I’m used to my brew. JBC and drift away light-medium roast
If you have 2-3 people using it, now you’re talking returns in a few months. Or once you’re addicted and having 2-3 shots a day.
@@brotakul cycling is a great comparison.
I had that Breville for espresso. I had to dose high to make up for its lack of fine grinding ability and it wore out after a couple of years. I am currently single dosing use a hand grinder with very low retention and very fine stepped grind adjustment. I cannot imagine going back to any of the grinders in this video for espresso. The Sette has a reputation of not being very durable. Not having a hopper and keeping my beans in an airtight container keeps them so much fresher, and rock solid consistent dosing is a really nice feature to have.
did you adjust the internal bur adjustment? I had to take mine down a step or two to get it fine enough for espresso, works great now although retention is still a bit of an issue
Mine stopped being able to grind espresso within a year. super disappointed
Sette retention is due to static. Spray of water on the beans and it’s like magic
This is true. We sprayed Pat in the face for his mistake.
I'm really curious to know what the basis is for the Breville's shorter life expectancy? Is it that the burrs are made of a lower grade steel and will wear out sooner? Or is it that the device itself will just malfunction? If it's just the burrs, they are replaceable, OEM for $40. I have had my Non-Pro Breville Smart Grinder for over 12 years and I just replaced the burrs. It has worked flawlessly. As an added bonus, the adjustable burrs from the newer "PRO" model are compatible in the older Non-PRO, so that is a nice upgrade for the Non-Pro -- also kind of a thoughtful design by Breville.
does anyone have any experience with the eureka mignon perfetto? I have someone selling one near me and might be able to get them in a price point I can afford. Will it do ok with a flair 58? Is it adequate on the espresso grind front?
The Notte clumper - I mean grinder!
Which one is best for a Moka pot?
My Pavoni kube died this morning so I've ordered a Rocky.
I don't think you can test retention by just tapping it. Grounds can get stuck in there and you won't get them out through percussive maintenance. The only way is really to weight the beans and ground on a clean machine.
I've experienced the rocky having a lot of retention problems. One of which being the fact that i cant knock out the retained grounds as they sit in behind the chute. Also very unfair to the zette, holding the plate up so high, the grinds couldn't fall onto the plate...
It seems that the retention in the Sette was due to static/coffee backing up due to the plate position?
Several folks have pointed this out, totally my mistake! Hard to see how backed up it was getting from my angle. Thanks for noticing! - Pat
Exactly. The plastic collar, especially during the dry winter months is a static magnet. The Sette is actually a great grinder in regards to retention. It's an open grind through design. The static issue does suck though.
I own Mignon Crono ....and it’s a perfect home grinder....
Is the Mignon Notte the same as the Manuale?
The notte is the same burr set and motor as the filtro and crono . The filtro grinds for espresso the same as the notte
That's what sold me on it. You're really spending hundreds of dollars more for a display and a timer. I love my Notte.
@@Matein13 the notte is amazing, i got mine on sale a few months back and its my first ever espresso grinder purchase. im honestly pretty content on the build and grind variability and it suits my needs perfectly. Im definitely not super well versed on espresso grinders and maybe one day ill upgrade, but for now its doing just fine
Many other reviews/how to videos of the Baratza Sette 30 showed almost zero retention. Not sure why your results were so vastly different.
Because he had the plate too close causing the ground coffee to get backed up in the opening. Watch again and pay close attention and you'll see. Also...seemed like static was also causing some coffee to stick to the machine...maybe also due to the closeness of the plate.
How does the coffee taste?
Baratza Encore ESP or Breville Smart grinder?, I want for espresso shots and in my country the price is almost the same
Are those t-shirts available?
The Sette 270s supposedly have very low retention. Why is the 30 so much worse?
He has the plate very close to the exit of the lower burr and with the static generated by the beans it sticks to the end. I have the sette 30 and later bought the sette 270 macro adjustment tool and have very low retention on both.
Seconding what Santiago said. The Sette has very low retention, but you need to put your dosing cup or portafilter a bit lower to avoid blocking the exit.
Thanks for pointing out the issues here all, I missed the backup from my angle. We'll watch for that in the future! - Pat
Does someone can recommend which of them is enough good for expresso but also is the most grind widerange (from expresso to French press) capable?. I really want to have good shots of expresso (main objective) but not sacrificing dripper or French press methods as I don't want to spend in two grinders.
Niche zero
if you know this machine can grind coffee to make turkish or greek coffee? means to grind coffee into the finest powder
i dont drink espresso, nor will i ever buy an espresso machine (i have no room for it in my tiny apartment). how are the coarse grinds for a simple french press on all these grinders?
Breville works great until it doesn’t after about a year
Admittedly it's a different Sette model, but my 270Wi has close to zero retention consistently. I'm puzzled how you got so much retention on a straight through vertical grind path model. I've ground 3 doses this morning and just went in and did your tap test and got a barely visible output on the rubber pad. I had way more retention on my previous Vario. Update: Reading further in the comments it looks like this was already pointed out.
He was keeping the plate too close and partly plugging the hole
Yeah the plate was so close to the nozzle(?) that before the grinder was done, the grounds were pushing up against the nozzle and they remained adhered together when he pulled the plate away.
I have the Sette 30 and live in Colorado where we have very dry air, I definitely get notable static retention, I hold my portafilter below the tongs and it has less spillage going that method. My other grinder for general coffee an OXO Brew has significant retention into a stainless grounds container. For me I think adding the funnel extension Baratza sells may help me reduce static.
@@andrewsteavpack9079 Bummer about your dry air static issues. Although I’ll trade you Colorado dry air for nasty Missouri summer humidity. 😉 Have you thought of trying the Ross Droplet Technique to reduce grinder static? A small pump atomizer filled with water and a couple quick sprays into the beans in your hopper with a quick stir to distribute the moisture will notably reduce static during grinding.
Thus the Note is the best grinder.
What are the names of these machines?
They maybe entry level grinders but why an entry-level description? Without any confusion you could have included additional information. For sure the Build and features have a lot to do with the price. The big miss is the type of burr and size. That is what allows the grind to bring out the flavor notes in the coffee. Are they all flat burrs? I know there is much more that can be discussed but I believe a disservice not to start to explain why burrs are so important.
Speed is complicated. Are the beans heating up, is the motor DC, is the motor straining?
These things can be touched on because understanding why they are entry level is important. From the demo one can make broad and incorrect assumptions as to why they are entry level grinders.
My biggest beef is the retention demo. Many high end have bellows. Tapping the grinder to show retention is the same as using the bellows on high end machines recognized as zero retention grinders. The only way to test is to put x grams in and measure how many grams out even after the tap.
How do you think the Vario compares?
hmm I have to say the SGP sounds like its huffing and puffing. I really doesn't instill confidence in the motor the way the Rocky and Eureka do.
Honest question .. I *never* drink any coffee straight period. I make a ton of espresso drinks they're all drowned in sugar, milk or you name it including iced frappuccinos. Under that use case how much should I spend on a grinder and what do you recommend if I also make pour overs? Thanks ☺️
FYI .. I have a Breville Barista Touch, a Moccamaster by Technivorm KBGV Select, and I mess around with a variety of other brew methods. I use the built-in espresso grinder and buy pre-ground coffee otherwise. I know I'm missing out.
Sounds like you don’t care about quality espresso. You should still get a quality grinder for longevity, ease of use etc etc. A good cappuccino can be very sweet with only milk, no sugar added. You should expect to pay 300$ usd or more. Sounds expensive, but for espresso the grinder is more important than the espresso machine. Remember that grinders can easily climb to 3000$. The grinders in this video (except the Breville in my opinion) are all quite good but still fairly entry level.
@@starke6666 .. I care about my quality very much, but when it's diluted so much there's a point where there's so much and diminishing returns it becomes frankly asinine to spend over x amount of dollars for a grinder that you couldn't taste the difference.
@@starke6666 .. For what it's worth I have a Breville Barista Touch and I'm very good about getting my 2:1 to 2.5:1 ratio. LOL I'm using the #3 setting, there's not too much further down I can go if needed. However that's not the only coffee I drink and what makes things nearly impossible is everyone and there are four coffee drinkers in this house all of them drinking completely different beans. Point is when you're doing that and going from a light to medium to dark roasted beans, about the only variable I can handle in the morning is how many grams of each (16.5g-19g) variance. Compared to most coffee shops I go to their espresso is garbage compared to ours. I'm just not plummeting down the rabbit hole.
@@DJaquithFL hey there! In case you don’t know this, breville grinders have an “internal burr adjustment” too, so you can change that and push everything finer. Look up a video for how to adjust the internal burr setting. My advice: unless you are itching to buy something new, the grinder on the barista touch should be fine .
Actually in my experience rancilio worth every penny, cant say the same to the others: baratza and breville dont really worth what you are paying, very cheap components, as more "electronically" complex as easily focked up. I've had both baratza and breville
Longevity would be worth noting, common knowledge breville exit fan wear and no replacement part. Success of new fan design not known. Breville are doing themselves a disservice
Stay away from the Baratza. Mine just died shy of three years. Tried replacing the fuse and still nothing. The control screen just blinks every 10 seconds. And it wakes the house up every morning- very loud. Was hoping to get more years out of a grinder for the price. Will not be buying that one again.
I’m getting really frustrated with my breville smart grinder pro. Retention is awful
I figured out that you can fit one of those silicone stretch lids on the hopper and use it as a baffle. Makes it a much more pleasant experience.
I second that. The old grinds are backed up like a train in there! The burrs drop the grind into a chamber which is then pushed out by an impeller, but that chamber is absolutely chock full of old grind.
Changing the grind size was never pleasant (which was needed as the beans aged or humidity changed day to day), so much wasted grind just to flush out the old stuff
Would you use the Rancilio coffee grinder to grind black pepper?
hahahah that better be the best damn pepper around
Your grind time was off, the first one was about 4 to 4 1/2 seconds, the second one was almost 6 seconds if not 6 seconds, almost 7 on the third one, and the last one was about 6.
The amount of coffee you can get out of the grinder by smacking it does not even slightly equal retention. To actually measure retention you need to grind until empty and then open up the grinder and weigh how much is left inside of it, by that test the Sette would probably do the best as it's a straight through conical burr setup. If the Breville SGP is set up like the Barista Express's grinder, which by looking at how it grinded based on my experience, it almost certainly is, it will have a tonne of retention. Retention is really not a huge issue once you get dialed in and are having at least one coffee a day, but getting dialed in can be tricky.
The Rocky is just so old at this point and is way too expensive for what it is, I also think it's ugly as sin.
The Baratza Sette 30 is so loud you will wake the neighbours, sure it's fast but does that matter? Also stepped and only 30 grind settings, big oof.
The Breville Smart Grinder Pro is a Breville grinder, take with that what you will.
And the Eureka Notte, the one actually worth buying. A great entry level espresso grinder, actual step-less grind adjustment, flat burrs (for which you can find replacements!), it's metal, and you could reasonably keep it around for a long while without feeling the need to upgrade.
I don't really feel like I learned anything from this video, maybe because I already knew all this stuff about these grinders as I did quite a bit of research getting my Silenzio, but that kind of feels like a trend with this channel. "Look! Things!" *audience is confused*
What was the point of this comment?
Perhaps espresso is relevant? -Evaluation by Drinking it...
Theres is virtually no retention from the sette, you just goofed a little.
"...getting that tricky single origin dialled in..." And that there tell me that this isn't a review for people just starting out in home espresso, unless you're targeting the 'all the gear but no idea' crowd, as a beginner I'd be happy with something that at the end of the process tastes better than instant and I still have my eyebrows.
Y
Jamming the plate up into the sette disqualified your test. Thumbs down.
I don't like the green screen studio
No green screen involved
"entry level" and you start the video with a 450$ machine...... dude
Why do you add the word "point" to the word "price"? "Pricepoint" has become a jargon term recently for no good reason. It's the classic waste of breath used by those who know no better to make them sound as if they know what they're talking about. A complete waste of a syllable, I think.
The price is the price. End of.
Good video though! ;-)
Price point means a point on a scale of possible prices at which something might be marketed; its meaning is different from the meaning of price, which is (principally, but not only) the amount of money expected, required, or given in payment for something.
@@dirgeofthedawn "Price" also means a point on the scale of possible amounts at which something might be marketed. You've obviously bought into the bullshitpoint.